RSVP Blog

Hi Folks, this one is rocking isn't it.
Shadowman: The women dating/sleeping with multiple partners is not quite as malicious as it sounds. Its not like they are playing us off against each other, generally speaking I'd never know if she is sleeping with another at the same time, she's sure as hell not gonna tell me :-) Dating another at the same time is fine - its the equivalent to meeting in the club/dance when we were in our twenties - since there is no casual contact (via clubs/dances) now, we have a more one-on-one casual contact, that needs to run a few meets before a real & proper decision can be made so takes a number of weeks. Consequently things overlap with other guys for a while - as I have overlapped dating periods with women from time to time. Its the action taken when one or the other becomes serious that counts - that's the point at which one person dating kicks in - well the question gets asked anyway :-) .

And can I just second Onegoodman1's comment about the headlines "Just Looking" and its ilk - yeah, telling me upfront that your not looking for a life partner is appreciated, and allows me to move on to the next profile with minimal fuss.

I think what amberlightrose has to say about choice is quality stuff. There are quite a few profiles which say "Chemistry must be there, we all know pretty quickly if we are going to click" or words to that effect. Well there are two upshots from that kind of thinking:
(1) many people actually believe it. This means if there is no "za za zoom" (as it was said to me across the table recently ;-) then they just move on to the next potential candidate - which this huge database of online potentials allows.
(2) clicking used to mean that she didn't tell me to pee off when I said hello in the St George Leagues club (back to being 20YO here, yeah). It wasn't a sign of forever-together, just he/she might be nice to hang out with.
Now it means, I guess, 'lust at first sight' that thing that registers as he/she is what I want RIGHT NOW (very lucky to have met a couple of those and can I just say - WOW - I love women in 45 to 55 year bracket !!!).

So, expectation based on first meeting seems to have escalated a bit high for some people (not me of course ;-) the fact that you can meet someone on a bad day (don't we all work hard enough as it is) and should give them another chance even, just doesn't seem part of the equation any more.

OK, that's about as much comment as my 2cents buys now-a-days. But I wish I'd dropped in earlier this topic has sidled across a couple of related yet different pathways hasn't it ;-)

OH one other thing: people keep referring to it as "lack of honesty" when not told dating/sleeping multiples. I really don't see it that way, again its not malicious, we should all go into a meeting (first, second, whatever) ASSUMING there are other dates going on - its internet dating, you HAVE to meet one-to-one to do the casual first few get togethers and part of compatibility is the bedroom - eventually. But we should all assume there are others - until told otherwise, that's just how this game is played.

Posted by: quest4u2 at March 10, 2010 9:29 AM

G'day, I first post for me.

I have read with interest the comments so far - even the ones that have diverged somewhat form the topic at hand - thankfully the moderation has been fairly generously applied as there have been quite a few interesting side alleys investigated.

Thanks folks for your insights.

I can only offer you my experience here.

I met a girl at a party and we really hit it off. Fairly quickly we were going out quite a bit and soon I was interested in something more. She was not. The thing that saved us was that we were both honest about how we felt - she that she really enjoyed my company and valued me as a friend but did not want more - me that I did. Yes there was a certain tension in the relationship but she never tried to play on my feeling for her, and I never tried to push mine on her. They were just there and every-so-often we would talk about but until something changed in one of us we would stay in that state of dynamic equilibrium.

It stayed that way for 5 years till something happened in her life that changed how she saw me.

So for me it is about respect. If you are willing to treat others (and yourself) with real respect then just about anything can work. This girl did a lot of things that were disrespectful of others, me and herself - but one line she was never willing to cross was to pretend to me about her feelings.

In the end that lead to a relationship that was more meaningful to both of us than any other each of us had ever had.

My 2 cents worth.

Richard, Sydney

Posted by: seeker44 at March 8, 2010 10:22 PM

Hey shadowman and onegoodman ..... welcome to liberation.

Posted by: outofthefryingpan at March 8, 2010 2:02 PM

Some great points being made here on this particular blog topic.
If I may contribute the comment "with online dating" that many assumptions are made of a possible contact ( re interest) before any response is offered (a kiss or email).
Always wrong to assume and on this means of contact "online" with a view to establishing a short or long term relationship (in my case) -what attracted you initially to a particular profile may quickly dissipate with that first important coffee/eyeball to eyeball meeting and conversation.

I would think that many of us on here whilst attempting to offer in our profiles and photos to others - an honest and genuine "snap shot" of who we are and what we seek, at times we may fall short as far as the expectations or interpretations of the other from reading our given profile.

For some - an upfront honest comment as to their intent of only being on RSVP say for "casual dating" can be a turn off with the implied "butterfly syndrome" or "shopping around" coming into play.
I have read many women's profiles on here offering in their opening profile headliner comment of ---"Just looking" or "On here to see what's out there" etc.
Such comment, to some, is honest and upfront. (or perhaps they couldn't think of anything else to write on sign up).
For me at least when reading such a "headline" it does not attract further interest or a desire to read further.
So ladies - I don't know how you may react to such a comment nor if fellows use similar opening lines/ comments on here.
I don't read blokes profiles as I don't bat for the other side. :o)

My intent on being on RSVP is to establish a genuine relationship with a woman "of substance" that in the best outcome for both of us" - we will no doubt closely meet our respective profile matches without too much adjustment/allowances for either of us.
I am not on RSVP to be a "Pen Pal", for "Friendship" or for casual dating and flitting from one to another.
Surely, you would have some idea of the attraction aspects for each other or if you want to get to know each other better over that first coffee/conversation.
If not then have the courtesy to be upfront/honest and say so ASAP.

I can wait ! There is a down side with that "wait" aspect though - one may become addicted to coffee.

ONEGOODMAN1

Posted by: onegoodman1 at March 8, 2010 11:33 AM

As someone recently new to all of this and having come out of a long term relationship I have found myself a little shocked at how people treat each other in this new dating scene. The concept of women dating multiple guys at the same time and even sleeping with them all has me wondering has the dating scene now only become about fun and playing one person off against another. What ever happened to respecting the feelings of other. Once upon a time showing respect for a women was the right thing to do, now it translates into getting attached and is seen as a negative thing... has the world gone completely mad since I was last in the dating game. Looking for genuine nice girl / guy just seems to be a line these days as people are always shopping for the better model. Dating used to be about spending time with another and learning about each other, only one at a time. These days I am just waiting for the score card to come out to show how I compared to the Russian. Where have all the nice girls gone....

Posted by: shaddowman at March 7, 2010 6:51 PM

I thought it was pretty obvious: the lack of honesty everyone refers to is due to the inability to accept responsibility for ones actions. Very common in the modern society. Avoid disappointment, keep your cards close and play them very carefully. If you're not getting that loving feeling, walk away and don't be afraid to tell them why. It's a game of push and pull.

Posted by: craigsteen at February 26, 2010 9:01 AM

Oh Amber, Don't tell me you have turned into a naughty nympho !!!!

Posted by: iaminperth at February 26, 2010 12:03 AM

I agree re: the lack of honesty too and many of your comments about perhaps thinking that something better may be around the corner. I find it really confusing and disheartening, spend hours on the phone prior to the date - they tell you they could talk to you all night then spend 5 hours on the first date, seem to get along well, have lots in common, they text to say they had a great time and then never heard from again and ignore any attempts at further contact- what is that all about??

Posted by: loulou0711 at February 25, 2010 7:56 PM

Hi again Madammim,
I agree strongly with you.
Why can't someone just be 'up-front' and honest?
But then if they are honest, it might mean that that person might just miss out on satisfying themselves!
There are a lot of people who are unable to empathise; who don't care if they hurt someone else as long as they get what they want.
There are lots of people out there who consider it is "all about me".

I also think that internet dating makes some people more restless.
Because there are so many people on-line, I am sure that some people believe there is always someone "better" around the corner!
Years ago maybe we ended up with someone because there wasn't a lot of choice among our friends and workmates.
Now we can meet anyone from anywhere.

While many of us are just looking for the one person who 'gets us' as we do them, there are others who find it much easier if they hit a rough patch in a relationship, to just start a new one than work on themselves as a person.

The perceived "choice" that internet dating provides means that people perhaps don't give a relationship a go, like they may have a few years ago.
Why should they when they can always find their dream partner just by logging on?

I think the reality is that there really isn't as much choice as people would like to believe.
Some people find its too easy to pretend to be what they are not, just to reel that new fish in.

I often wonder how many people 'ditch' perfectly nice people and relationships because they happen to see a new 'hottie' on-line?
I imagine internet dating is very rewarding for the sex addicts among us!

Posted by: amberlightrose at February 2, 2010 10:40 AM

The lack of honesty with internet dating is the hardest part.

I like being honest. I know that until I meet the right man I am going to do a lot of meeting nice men and maybe have sex with a few of them.
If you meet a person and they are great, in and out of bed, what makes you keep seeing other people? Commitment phobia is a major reason.
Out of respect, please be honest with anyone you meet if you are only into casual sex friendships. It is selfish not to let them know that you are not monogomous with them and allow them to choose whether they want to date you and others or leave you to your way of life.

Respect and honesty is not a lot to ask.

Posted by: madammim at January 30, 2010 8:24 PM

Are you ready for a relationship where you commit to one person only? are you ready for anything the other person would bring into the relationship? Are you ready for high way or low way? You could have try at least after all you said you both getting along fine...you might find it ok or might not but you wouldn't know until you try. Good luck for what ever you choose !!!

Posted by: fleur1 at January 26, 2010 3:17 PM

Hey Panda ( eatsrootsandleaves)

I can see your point.

I'm cool tho, doesn't bother me..!

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at January 12, 2010 4:49 PM

What I don't get is how the husband - who she didnt tell - and who obviously needed to hire an expert to find out - was "humiliated", yet in Grosrene's example, the "secrecy" justified the affair.

Posted by: willow29 at January 12, 2010 11:36 AM

Eral- I think you mean "some" of the female bloggers, no? And I think they are seeking to justify her actions as you did with the original male protagonist. If he was able to justify it, why shouldn't she?

Posted by: willow29 at January 12, 2010 11:31 AM

Really Eral?
Please tell me exactly what sentences indicate that I have double standards?

Your scenario was not as detailed as Rene's.
Certainly there was no indication in your scenario that the wife was deluding herself by insisting that her lying was all about "protecting" her partner. Or any reasoning that it is okay to lie, because apparently everyone else does it!
It seems pretty obvious that she didn't 'mention' her affair simply to protect herself.

Certainly your unfaithful wife didn't seem to think that once found out; coercing her partner to "swing" would be the solution to her marital disharmony!

Also in your scenario the wife didn't seem to see the affair as a long-term solution to her problems. In fact she was obviously thinking that her "dashing and creative young stud (with a romantic italian name ;~)" would never be able to offer her more than a short-term fling.
While I am sure her financially stable life would have influenced her, the disruption of her children's lives should she just decide to 'run away' to Italy with him would have been more of an issue to a loving mother.
It also seems that she couldn't really accept as true that a 'hot' sexy man would ever think that she was really beautiful or sexy. Or that she could ever mean much to him. Her low self-esteem meant that she could never believe that he would value her for longer than a few months/weeks.

In Rene's scenario it seemed that a really low self-esteem wasn't at the base of his infidelity. More of a: "Huh! What's wrong with her? Other women think I am desirable!"
He was a bit miffed that his 'mistress' was about to spoil his satisfactory solution to his marital situation. By Rene's description, it seemed he was more worried about 'losing control' of things, than worrying about hurting either woman.
Why else would he think that his 'other woman' would simply be content to just wait around until he got tired of her!
Whereas in your scenario, I think the wife felt that the situation was always a bit out of her control. There was never any real belief that her lover would want to stay around for very long.

In both scenarios, I have stated that I didn't think that infidelity was the way to deal with their marital problems. In both scenarios, I have said that I certainly didn't think that either spouse "deserved" to lose their children simply because they were unfaithful.

While maybe because we are women, we are better able to understand the women's feelings, I think that in most of the comments I read, more women were upset about Rene's 'hypothetical' husband smugness about his lying, than his actual infidelity!

So I look forward to the evidence that proves your sweeping statement that all the female bloggers have "double standards"!

Posted by: amberlightrose at January 12, 2010 10:52 AM

Am i the only one who is surprised at the double standards expressed by the female bloggers upon the male vs female protagonist - when both have done the same thing, and for the same reasons !

Actually im not surprised - im astounded !
Thanks for the reminder.

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at January 12, 2010 12:32 AM

Maybe she stopped being vibrant because she was living with a big fat old bore who wasn't the man she married. Who knows, it happens and will continue to happen. Happen = either let it happen, or wanted it to happen, or willed it to happen. I don't necessarily believe things just happen like that. There is a lot of difference with rational people between thinking about something and actually doing it.

Of course, if you happen to be a psychopath, the only difference is that we think about doing things and they act on it. We are absolutely fed up with someone, totally and utterly you know what and for a split millisecond we think, 'I wish they would just drop dead', only difference is a psychopath will act on it.

Most people really don't want another person to drop dead but in that millisecond when you feel backed into a corner......well ...

Posted by: iaminperth at January 11, 2010 9:11 PM

I agree Perth - being a parent to the child is more important than the differences you have as a spouse. No matter what your feelings are, its how you express it in front of the child that shapes their own perceptions and their ability to handle problems in the future. Any animosity will only fuel the kids with feelings of betrayal and guilt when they visit the other parent. The best scenario be allowed to have the love of both parents and be able to return it.

(Disclaimer: This is of course the ideal situation in a break up and Im not too naive to realise there are situations where one, or even both, of the parents is clearly unfit to have/see the children)

Posted by: willow29 at January 11, 2010 7:47 PM

Totally Amber, Excellent and hit the nail on the head with that post. Like it or not for a lot of parents, the kids like both of you and want to spend time with both of you.

Sometimes younger ones will express differently to try to 'please' one of the parents, but that is also a sad situation.

A child is just that a child and should have two parents I believe. Whether they live in the same house and whether they live in different houses, they still have a mum and a dad.

What they do in one house may be different to what they do in the other but that's just the way it goes. Keep your own home safe, secure and loving and that's about all you can do. Create an environment where the kids want to come back to = a home.

Bickering and arguing plays no part in a childs development they hate it and makes them feel uncomfortable. That's adult stuff to be sorted out behind closed doors in private.

And if one or the other gets a new partner, normalise it, it is normal after all. There are no time limits and rules, it's not something bad, it's called moving on and none of either persons business. So long as the child is looked after that's great.

Sometimes the guys new partners can actually cook as well so how good is that when you know your child is not going to be stuffed with maccas and pizza all weekend.

Posted by: iaminperth at January 11, 2010 11:49 AM

Eral,
You are asking where did she go wrong?

Well like many of us, maybe she allowed herself to become "lost" in the day-to-day stuff of being a mother and wife. Perhaps she stopped being the vibrant person her husband fell in love with?

But then we don't know what he was really looking for.
Some men simply want the respectability and certainty of marriage to someone who will always "do the right thing" by him.
Maybe, he didn't really want intimacy, love or friendship in his marriage, he just wanted someone who could 'hold up' the package he wanted to present to the rest of the world.
In this scenario, there is nothing she could have done except left her lonely marriage, years ago.

She really let herself down by believing that having an affair could actually improve her self-esteem and that (?) maybe it might make her husband "wake up" and take notice.

His obvious need for revenge and to hurt her by trying to remove from her life, those she loved most in her world (thank goodness largely unsuccessful under Australian Family Law) seems to indicate her surgeon husband had no real respect or love for his wife, despite all the years he had devoted to him and his life-style.
His response was about 'getting back' at her, not just about initial anger and hurt. (It would take months to get such an action going) so I'm not sure that forgiveness and reconciliation would EVER be possible with such a person.

Maybe in years to come, she will realise her major mistake was not respecting herself enough to actually take control of her own life.
It seems she was all about pleasing others. (why else would she even bother to try to rekindle her husband's interest?).

Taking a lover was all about forgetting about how lonely she was.
No doubt deep down she knew it wouldn't take too long before her "dashing and creative young stud ( with a romantic italian name ;~)" found someone else whose photo he liked even better!
It was most probably her seemingly 'unattainable' status yet vulnerability that attracted him in the first place.
Once she was his, her life would probably have repeated itself, except instead of work and status like her husband, his obsession would be chasing unattainable women!

So I see her biggest mistake was not respecting herself enough to say "I am lonely, I am unhappy, what can I do to change things"
Maybe she could have taken up an interest she was always passionate about?
If she had cared about herself, she perhaps should have asked her husband to be more of a part of their marriage.
She could have asked him to attend counselling with her.
(I imagine it may not have helped; but at least she could have clarified things in her own mind)

Certainly having an affair wasn't the answer anyway!

Posted by: amberlightrose at January 6, 2010 7:54 PM

True Perth,
Anyone who has had anything to do with the Family Court in the last half-dozen or so years will know that when it comes to Child Residency issues, the Family Court wants to keep lawyers out of it.

These days one has to go through a Family Relationship Centre and mediation must be attempted before anyone gets anywhere near the Family Court. Only the most intractable cases even get to Court these days.
The mediator can also direct parents to attend whole weekend workshops about how separation affects children, before mediation continues, if they feel parents aren't getting the message.

It is certainly no longer even remotely acceptable that children are used as weapons to 'punish' a wayward partner. No one is interested in why a relationship fell apart unless Domestic Violence is involved and this puts the children in danger.

Parents are expected to put their grievances aside and behave like well, (surpise, surprise) adults!
The only concern of the Family Court is what is best for the child.
Any parent who starts going on about their "parental rights" soon gets put back in their place!

So your vengeful surgeon husband is likely to find he has made matters worse for himself, not better.
Unless he can show evidence his wife is an unfit mother, she is unlikely to lose substantial contact with her children.

If the father works long hours and has spent little time with his children in the past, the question is likely to be, why would he be wanting the children full-time anyway?
At best, in such a situation the most the father would be likely to get is 50/50 shared parenting.

Eral,
I don't think anyone would really think that either parent should lose contact with their children just because they were unfaithful to their partner.
My comments about Rene's hypothetical husband were totally "tongue-in-cheek".

The Family Court system couldn't care less about what type of partner you were, they are really only concerned about what type of parent you are!

A person who works long hours and then has also spent large amounts of time with a new lover, isn't really showing that their chidren are a high priority in their lives are they?

If it is felt necessary, the FRC mediators will recommend a Child Consultation if parents' stories don't seem to add up, there sems to be a lot of family conflict and/or children seem unhappy and to be not coping with the parenting arrangment.

So no I wouldn't be saying "serves her right" (nor would I say that about, Rene's hypothetical husband either)

Children, in most cases (unless one parent is likely to emotionally, physcially or sexually abuse the child) need and love both parents.
It's certainly not the children's fault in either scenario that their parents couldn't say "no" to cheating on the other parent, so why should they be punished?

Posted by: amberlightrose at January 6, 2010 5:28 PM

Why do you assume she went wrong. She wandered off, had a bonk and now she is having to face some consequences. She is an adult, if she stuffed up, she needs to sort it out.

It's just a bit of ego gone a bit nuts as it does in most people now and then, it's not wrong, it's not right, it just is. She needs to get over and sort it all out now and get on with her life.

Posted by: iaminperth at January 6, 2010 4:59 PM

She should have got a better lawyer!!

Posted by: willow29 at January 5, 2010 11:43 PM

Thats a very pragmatic answer to my second question ( where did she go wrong ? ) isn't it; however, finding a lawyer better connected than her husband's (an elite member of society) isn't really that likely ...

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at January 6, 2010 12:56 PM

Posted by: iaminperth at January 5, 2010 4:46 PM

Good comments there Perth !

However, truer to life; the divorce and all its drama becomes a great burden upon her, and the lover, now disillusioned meets another 'lady' and moves on.... leaving our main character to ponder her next move alone.

Where did she go wrong ?

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at January 6, 2010 12:09 PM

Yup! She should have got a better lawyer!!

Posted by: willow29 at January 5, 2010 11:43 PM

"This dashing and creative young stud ( with a romantic italian name ;~)"

Pfft.., can't be too much of a stud chasing married woman around...

but to answer your question, yes serves her right.

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at January 5, 2010 9:17 PM

Divorces are no contest nowadays so if one is unfaithful it really makes no difference really. Property is divided according to input and the children over nine years old can chose to live where they wish.

Ideal scenario for lady, go and live with the lover in Italy, leave the husband with the kids and all get on with their lives. After all Isabella Rossellinis mum did just that and she seems pretty smart.

Private detectives don't cut it with marital court proceedings in Aust. That was cut out years ago so it's all good.

Posted by: iaminperth at January 5, 2010 4:46 PM

So lets turn this scenarios around, and see if the shoes still fits.

A younger and very attractive woman marries a well renowned surgeon, and they have two lovely children. After a decade or so of her playing dutiful mother( whom she loves dearly), hostess and 'doctors wife' to a tee(?); she finds herself in the all too common, but not quite so modern quandary of domestic and matrimonial boredom. (eg. Madame Bovary)

Everything that had once seems so magical with her husband, had slowly melted away, and nothing she could do made it any better. Desperate to spice things up, she decided to commission a glamor photo session to remind herself, and her flagging husband, what a sexy thing she still was !

This dashing and creative young stud ( with a romantic italian name ;~) ) sweeps her of her feet with her first picture... and a hot and erotic love affair ensues.

After a short while, her ardent lover asks her if she would entertain leaving her husband, to come live with him in Italy.

She quickly rejects the notion, telling him " look -- i'm married, to a surgeon, with two children; my life is fixed ", telling him he will have to content himself with confining their passions to local hotels, and forget about Capistrano..

Alas, soon after, a well informed private detective, and just as well connected lawyer, persuade the presiding family court judge that her two children should be given to her humiliated husband - forever.

Do we still hear a chorus of "serves her right!" ?

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at January 5, 2010 3:49 PM

That is so cruel Perth.
It makes you wonder how anyone who is capable of inflicting such cruelty on helpless animals can possibly consider themselves decent human beings.

When I got my little dog from the animal shelter at Moorook a couple of years ago, a lady called in with a box of 2 kittens. She had noticed someone dropping something on the side of the road and went back to see what it was.
There had been 3 of them, but by the time she got back one of the kittens had been killed by a passing car.
It was a stinking hot day and the kittens were very young (their eyes were just changing colour) they had no water but whoever dumped them had put 3 sachets of cat food in the box with them!
I mean what were they thinking?
In their weird way were they actually thinking they were giving those poor little confused, hot and scared animals a chance?
Luckily for the kittens this lady had gone back to investigate, but most people probably wouldn't have.

There are some really ignorant and stupid people in this world!

Glad to hear your little bundles of fluff are doing well!
Compulsory desexing of all cats (and dogs) is the way to go I think, then all these unfortunate little unwanted kittens (and puppies) wouldn't be born in the first place!

Posted by: amberlightrose at December 30, 2009 10:38 AM

Awww, I always knew I was right. I love puppies and cows. What a simple soul I am at the core of it all.

I went in and out the house today, 40 deg. here in towntown Perth, cleaning out the garage and doing gardening. Hot, hot, hot I can tell you and with me just about the whole time I had eight little kittens 'helping'. Four of them arrived at the local animal shelter the other day locked in an Esky. No air and stinking hot and the other four were left in a cardboard box.

So, they will stay here for about four weeks until they are ready to find new homes. I feel nothing but contempt for the people who breed these little beings. Like cats or not, they are little animals with beating hearts and feelings and what gives a person who is supposed to be of higher intellect, the right to just dump them, more often than not to suffer and die.

So now, we have our two cats and my big puppy the gsd in the house at night and the eight little visitors in a big box with lots of toys and cushions in the garage. They have full fat tummies, can all snug together and sleep till the morning. Then it's all together for another adventure. My poor dog has been bashed, spat at, jumped on and literally turned upside down. She takes it all in her stride though and we both rescue her at times. I have always hated cruelty to animals and I think it speaks volumes of a persons character.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 29, 2009 12:21 AM

Hi FG,
Glad to hear you're getting some much needed rain! Is it true, most of NSW is still in drought?

Hope everyone had a good Christmas (at least a lot better than the family of Charlie Sheen. Talk about dysfunctional relationships!)

I agree FG. It seems that the "wild child" maybe didn't have too many hang ups; some people are by nature extroverted and exhibitonist, with few inhibitions.
Look at most of our current day "celebrities".
And looking at YouTube some people would do anything to get their five seconds of fame!

If people are comfortable that way it is fine. It is when someone starts trying to coerce another person to betray their values just to satisfy their own selfish whims that they are over-stepping the mark.
I think you are right, Rene's hypothetical husband would be much better if he just accepted his wife for who she is.
If he can't live with that, then he is better being honest with her and leaving her.
It might hurt her badly to do so, but it is much kinder and more caring in the long-term.
To hang onto her just to keep his life-style while not loving her for who she is; is being very selfish and not at all kind, loving OR respectful.

To expect her to betray herself to keep him happy is asking too much.
Especially when it seems his hypothetical husband cares so little about her, he can lie to her and think that is justified because maybe Robert Dessaix thinks lying is somehat clever!

As in:
"Lying is evidence of an ability to enter the minds of others, which is why humans and apes can dissemble, but dogs and cows can't. In fact, to tell the truth all the time shows a deplorable lack of humanity, and of imagination and respect for the feelings of others".

Is this the same Robert Dessaix who also said in 2001?

"You're trusting the other person with your vulnerability, that's the conclusion I've come to. That to me is at the core of intimacy, and it's the most exciting thing, and of course in a really non-sexual sense, although there can be a sexual dimension to it, that is the most erotic thing, that is the thing that sets up a charge, that you are saying 'Here I am with all my vulnerabilities, I want you to feel free to penetrate them and I want you to offer me yours.' These may not be negative things or wicked things, they can simply be tender things, but it's that offering of vulnerability of your wounds that I think is at the core of an intimate relationship."

He was actually discussing his RADIO AUDIENCE!
Somehow I doubt a man with such an attitude towards his radio listeners would be happy with Rene using his words out of context to justify someone lying to his wife, surely a much more intimate, tender and vulnerable relationship than a mere radio audience?

I find it interesting how often men seem to accuse women of wanting to change them, when I hear of so many older women nowadays who are so insecure in their relationships that they are having botox injections, plastic surgery, etc. just to try to hang on to their husbands!
Talk to any beautician these days and they will tell you they see far more older women than those younger. And the reason is usually "because my husband wants me to"

Maybe there are more than we would think; hypothetical husbands like Rene's wanting to coerce their partners to be something they are not just to keep them happy?

Posted by: amberlightrose at December 27, 2009 5:12 PM

i actually know a young girl that went from innocent, to wild child talked into by her boy friend. she's into swinging stripping and pole dancing. Now it's her way of life. Both her and boyfriend are cool with it tho so thats fine i guess. Sounds to me Rene's wife needs to go her separate ways and he needs to look for an appropriate partner.
Life goes on.

Been raining for two days here Perthy.. haven't seen that for 5 years. Very nice drop and well needed.

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at December 27, 2009 1:48 PM

I actually know his wife very well as her daughter went to the same school as mine. I remember her son had a pretty bad time at a boys school with the boys winding him up but the girls didn't seem to care or just didn't get it.

I think the two guys just worked so hard at being great parents to both kids and amazing support for the ex and both of them being stunning looking didn't hurt either.

I remember we all used to joke about why all the great looking guys were either married or gay.

I have gotten to know they all well thru the daughter who is now the same age as mine so it's about 14 years ago this all happened.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 27, 2009 11:48 AM

Hi Perth,
It seems your gay friend despite his decision to leave his wife, still really cared about her, was respectful of her and their children and was capable of great compassion, unlike GrosRene's hypothetical husband who doesn't seem capable of viewing anything from anyone's perspective other than his own.

Don't worry I am not taking this too seriously at all, in fact I mischeviously admit to be attempting to wind GrosRene up a bit.

I think my last paragraph attests to that!

Posted by: amberlightrose at December 24, 2009 3:39 PM

One of my friends husbands left her for a man and I don't think it made any difference to her feelings of loss and betrayal. The two guys are still together though nearly 12 years later and have been wonderful, absolutely wonderful to help her thru it and the kids both now love them.

The effort these two people went to to try to minimise pain was extraordinary at times and they all have great home lives.

The ex's partner is one of the nicest people I have ever met and I think it just goes to show it's not what you do when it's all happening, it's what you do afterwards.

Don't get too involved in this Amber, just my opinion, as he's winding you up mostly. You are looking forward to a wonderful christmas with your kids and whoever else and you don't need to be thinking about sneaky stuff at this time.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 24, 2009 1:12 PM

Interesting ideas GrosRene,

Yes as a woman (if I were your hypothetical wife) I would prefer to know about it.
And yes I would prefer that my hypothetical husband tells me about it, respectfully and with remorse.

However, if he only tells me because his G/F (or B/F) is threatening to tell me first, then I would lose all respect for him.
He is operating merely from the self-protection angle; e.g. he isn't sorry he betrayed me, he is just sorry he has lost control of the situation

Would it make it easier if my hypothetical husband was having an affair with a man?
Well maybe it wouldn't be so crushing to my ego, e.g. as in well maybe it wasn't me after all.
However, whether it was a man or woman, besides the emotional betrayal I would feel as in the fact that he just made his own choice about our relationship without even bothering to suggest relationship or other counselling, I would be furious that he is putting my health at risk by having sex with someone else.
And he "loves" me enough to think that is okay!

So you are suggesting a man having an affair has a "dirty secret"?
To be honest to me, Grosrene, the only thing "dirty" about it, is that this man is so self-absorbed and concerned only with his own ego, that he actually thinks that the decision he made should have no impact on the two women in his life!

He seems to have quite a superiority complex and is so patronising towards his wife that he has actually convinced himself it is "better for her" if he chooses to have an affair and lie to her, rather than be honest about his feelings and work on their relationship.
Would he think it was okay if their postions were reversed? And it was his wife who was having the "affair"? Emotional and/or sexual?

The thing is that often people have completely different 'rules' for themselves than they have for others.
Whereas I operate from the position that I wouldn't/couldn't do to someone else what I wouldn't like to have done to me.

And as for the woman he has been having an "affair" with, what about her feelings?
Sure it started out as "just sex" but now her emotions are involved. She has made the fatal mistake of falling in love with this shallow self-absorbed human being.

As far as telling his wife and then suggesting she become involved in swinging?
Wow, how inspiring! How respectful and considerate he is!
He has just destroyed her fantasy about their marriage being a loving (if somewhat flawed) partnership and now he also expects her to "swing" to save their marriage?
I suppose a man with such a huge ego would never think that his self-obsession may have been what cooled her passion towards him in the first place?

And as far as spending months or years years talking her around and "convincing" her if she is against the idea?
Any person who expects another person to compromise their values to meet the needs of their ego is beyond just being a tad selfish!

The most respectful thing this man could do would be (it seems for once in his life!) to respect and love his wife enough to be honest with her.
Let her see the REAL man she is married to and then let her decide - with no obligation and no pressure.
If she decides the relationship isn't worth it, then let her go.
Maybe she can find someone who does honour her and respect her and he can find someone who is more to his taste!

My best case scenario Grosrene for this hypothetical couple?
That his 'mistress' tell his wife, the wife is of course devastated (although she knew suspected something - most cheated on spouses do, you know) the mistress comforts the wife.
Then suddenly they both realise they are actually bi-sexual but into committed monogamous relationships,
THEY get together and Mr. Huge Ego is left to live his meant-to-be life of swinging and never having to commit totally to anyone person!
(Sorry about the huge divorce settlement and that huge monthly Child Support bill - but hey wasn't it worth it?)

Everyone is happy! Or are they?

Posted by: amberlightrose at December 24, 2009 10:16 AM

Very much off-blog topic,but I would like to wish all the bloggers (old and new) a Happy and safe Christmas..... I hope that you don't get too harassed by the great god "commercialism" but take some time to reflect on the real meaning of Christmas.

Happy Christmas from Kurli

Posted by: kurli at December 24, 2009 9:54 AM

As for the changing opinion of normal human sexuality, especially over the past few decades; i think we'll all agree that things have become a whole lot more open-minded; and also thankfully, more able to be more openly discussed.

To think of the number of gay men and women, that were involved in hetro marriages just to keep their public and corporate profiles in sympathy to the moral expectations of the 'norms'.

I wonder - is it worse for the woman/wife, to find out that her husband is sleeping with another woman/lover, or if is it more confronting when/if she finds out that hes bi or gay ??

What if the casual affair had been with another man ?

So you ladies would rather it all came out? Let everyone know your dirty secrets?
So you think the guy should tell his wife ?

Or better still, he should try to get her involved? Sure sure, a whole new lifestyle for them no ? FUN!
Meeting new ppl at couples parties...swinging and open relationships etc...

NO? shes not into it?? She wants to be a good mother and doesn't feel that way anymore? Well well...then i guess he'll just have to talk her around, day after day , weeks and months and then years, but after lots of brainwashing and dubious experiences later... is she happier than if he'd just been discrete about it?

As for the BS and mindfunks our governements, schools and churches, and corporate bureaucracies brainwash us with on a regular basis; (all of which are always explained as being for our good ! eg War in Iraq/Afganistan...) what right do any of us have to blame 'parents' in general for the state of humanity??

Posted by: grosrene at December 22, 2009 9:00 PM

I agree Amber. It is very unreasonable to think that you can control a situation to that extent. We will keep our affair quiet to protect the innocent. Oh come on, how many affairs remain a secret and to assume another person needs protection from a person they probably won't respect anyway. Again, I think it is the violation of trust and the neglecting of values. I suppose today more than any other time also putting the other person in danger of disease.

I guess it's just sneaky and nasty and always causes a lot of problems and adding another lie to the original is not going to fix the problem.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 22, 2009 6:39 PM

The doctor didn't tell the patient he was dying ?? You're kidding. How would the poor guy get his affairs in order or wouldn't he wonder why he wasn't feeling better in time.

You just can't understand where there thinking is coming from and what a horrible shock when it all started happening especially with such a terrible disease.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 22, 2009 6:12 PM

Well said Kurli.

Rereading some of the comments, it would appear that the ladies are more affronted by perceived 'lies' of the man keeping his infidelity a secret from family and friends, than they are by the actual "sexual relations".

For those of you; i offer this opinion from Robert Dessaix.

" The liar has many faces. We misrepresent the facts for the sheer fun of it, to be kind, to be cruel, to boost our self-esteem, to manipulate, to dominate, to enrich ourselves, to avoid punishment and even for artistic reasons. To hoodwink, it seems, is quintessentially human, although it was admittedly a serpent who told the first whopper in the Garden of Eden, not a human being. Lying is evidence of an ability to enter the minds of others, which is why humans and apes can dissemble, but dogs and cows can't. In fact, to tell the truth all the time shows a deplorable lack of humanity, and of imagination and respect for the feelings of others.

Kant, it's true, claimed to believe that we have an absolute duty not to lie, even if telling the truth should lead to the death of an innocent man, while Montaigne, in a fit of high-mindedness, said that we should pursue lying with fire, such was the horror of it. As a rule, however, it's only very small children who are never untruthful. According to the experts, if your children haven't started lying artfully about once every two hours by the age of four, you're in trouble. It almost certainly means that, like some postmodern theorists, they're failing to distinguish between what is fact and what is fiction. A liar at least recognises the difference. Only dullards, if we are to believe a McGill University survey, fail to start lying creatively and frequently by the age of four. Who wants a four-yearold postmodernist on the loose around the house? "

Seems to me, that we have a few of those here at times...

bah !! humbug!

Posted by: grosrene at December 22, 2009 2:46 PM

Hi everyone,
An interesting hypothetical, Grosrene.
Just curious is it really "hypothetical"?

I have an issue with people who say they are keeping their infidelity secret from their partner to "protect" them.
I see that as more an effort to "protect" themselves (and their pleasant little life-style) not their partner.

I remember when I was growing up, my grandfather was diagnosed with Bowel Cancer (a certain death sentence over 35 years ago).
His children together with the doctors, opted not to tell him to "make it easier" for him. Even though I was just in my early teens, that seemed to me to be very, very cruel .
They were denying him the right to decide what he wanted to do with the remainder of HIS life. How could he make things "right" in the way he may have wanted to, when he didn't even know he was dying?
Thank goodness, that would never happen nowadays.

When someone "decides" for you what you should know or shouldn't know, to me, that is completely wrong.
That is rude, thoughtless and disrespectful.
If he can't even respect his wife, why would he want to remain with her?
She is not a child. He cannot assume he 'knows' what is going on her head!

The wife may want to make her own decisions about what she wants to do about the relationship.
However, by taking the path of infidelity and not giving his wife the opportunity to know for real that he is unhappy, he is denying her the chance to be able to work on the relationship.

He is not giving either his wife or children the respect they deserve. He is not giving his relationship a chance.

By also assuming once again, that his lover was going to always want to keep their relationship a secret, he is also totally unrealistic.
Sure if it is discussed, maybe he has a point, but the thing is that people change their minds. People's life circumstances change.
That is simply life. That is the risk we take. We can never control what another person is thinking or feeling.

In your hypothetical, the man is 'assuming' one hell of a lot about the people in his life! He is patronisingly thinking he can be 'in control' of everyone and everything.

I kind of think he deserves to have the rug pulled out from under him!

Posted by: amberlightrose at December 22, 2009 12:57 PM

46 years, wow Kurli. My parents were married over 60 years and that generation never seemed to 'give up'. I think there was far more respect given also of those generations, although I don't know. The state of relationships at the moment albeit marriage doesn't seem to be going too well though.

I wonder if it is people seeking an illusion, a picture book copy of reality or what....or maybe it is just a symptom of a throwaway society.

I have one daughter who was desperate to get married, always had a boyfriend. Second daughter has huge social life and totally focussed on getting her degree and marriage is totally for other people. She cannot see the reason for it at all.

Must say though if I had my time over, which of course you don';t, I wouldn't bother. More education and a couple of kids or more would work very nicely for me. I think the whole marriage thing is too much hard work and so tedious at times. Lots of friends and family is good and then you can shut the door and send them all home when you have had enough. lol

Posted by: iaminperth at December 22, 2009 12:47 PM

Perthie and others,please do not presume to explain my comments!
I married at 22 y.o....I had "shopped around" prior to meeting my DH and had my heart dented a few times.
We were married for 46 years..not all rosy.!No marriage ever is.... we lost a child,survived bushfires and an earthquake and even an over possessive secretary!
The only time I was really tempted to leave was due to homesickness(smiles at memory)
We were both friends & lovers,and had commitmment (that word again)and COMMUNICATION......I was "emotion" & he was "reason"

Perhaps these days it is too easy to ESCAPE when rose coloured glasses fade or passion cools.
The trouble with western marriages is that we marry when the kettle is on the "boil",when with other cultures that happens later.
Anyway..those are my views and how I lived my life.......good luck to you all......cynicism will get you NOWHERE

Posted by: kurli at December 20, 2009 8:52 AM

I agree Isi and I think sometimes support is sometimes really control in disguise. Everyone reacts differently to different situations and some people need a lot of support and others don't.

Honest and open communication is definitely the key but how many people can you have that with without offending or upsetting them. Then you get the ones with the pop psychology trying to analyse you, which is so boring and tedious to be laughable. And they want to go around and around in their washing machine type of world never venturing out.

I'm single, have had a few flings for want of a better word, but must admit to being happier making my own decisions and not having to worry about someone else getting a poopy face over some imagined injustice. I had a guy say to me a while ago 'that he's learned to be a good boy now' and then he sort of put on this dopey face and thought it was funny. And I thought fancy waking in the morning and seeing that silly face next to you, ewwww cringeworthy, rather the garden and the puppies any day and freedom not to have to talk and mix with drips.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 19, 2009 6:30 PM

Iaminperth

You bring up a very pertinent point in saying;"
How about people working on their relationship themselves. Chopping and changing partners all the time obviously doesn't fix the problem as statistics confirm so why not face up that there is a problem and let's work it thru"

You touch on an area that is pretty close to my heart and my 'general' approach to life.

Relationships push buttons. Partners challenge you the most. Often 'the partner' is perceived..or blamed as 'the problem'...when in fact it 'may' be an area that you need to address or work on...or even need to be aware it exists.

I think this approach would help a lot of people stay together...but more importantly (imo) it helps them to start to be 'aware of' themself.

Aristotle once said; "Wherevever I go there I am"
I like that. Speaks volumes about ourselves. You cannot hide from yourself.

On the other side of that though is the fact that you may very well have a supportive partner...but...you are not attracted to them anymore....

No amount of support or awareness of self is perhaps going to keep people together in that instance.

Its interesting sometimes how we perceive 'support'...

It gets complicated.

Take the example of a woman who supports her man 100%. Shes there for him. She builds a life with him.....but.....he still leaves...

She is devastated. "What did I do wrong?"
Maybe nothing. Maybe what she thought was 'support' wasn't the support that 'he needed'.

Gets back to communication. Staying connected. Not going through the motions.

Sometimes all of those things still don't work.

Tough gig sometimes this relationship stuff ...no wonder i'm still single ;)

Posted by: isidore at December 19, 2009 3:35 PM

I don't think there is anything wrong with marriage, but even with the best and most sincere intentions it's unrealistic to think that it will/should last for ever. I was married for over 25yrs myself...the last ten were not really good.

Anyway, I think I have said before, I don't believe we were meant to have the same partner forever. We need someone to match the stages of life we are in and as we are all different and change at different rates, it would be a rare thing for couples to change together all the way through I would think.

My son broke up after a 7 yr relationship at the beginning of the year. He says he is not interested in being in a relationship again...too much trouble, at 28 he thinks he has missed the boat.....I told him not to be so jaded, you just never know.

Posted by: aquamanda56 at December 19, 2009 1:47 PM

Moderation: I guess the site wouldn't have it's own designated moderators, therefore, wouldn't be at the top of the list all the time.

A group of people from here have started their own unmoderated site but most have left I believe. Some who blog here also blog over there but duck out when the language and personal insults get too much.

I suppose it is slow at times but I for one think it is necessary unfortunately and after all it is up to the people who blog to keep to the rules. Unfortunately this didn't happen in the past and a small group spoiled it for everyone.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 19, 2009 1:21 PM

I think what Kurli was saying is 'you are either married or you are not'. I don't think she has said that she believes it is a romantic lifelong commitment.

She is also saying instead of being deceitful and sneaking around, cut the chord prior if it is not working.

Of course, that takes on a whole new area 'it's not working' send in the working fairies to fix it. How about people working on their relationship themselves. Chopping and changing partners all the time obviously doesn't fix the problem as statistics confirm so why not face up that there is a problem and let's work it thru.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 19, 2009 1:18 PM

I don't think earning capacity causes problems, it's contributing to a relationship that causes the problems.

As I have spoken about previously, I have a female friend who earns far more than her partner, always has but he does absolutely everything at home to make life easy and pleasant for her. He is not a woozy guy at all, he's just down to earth and really nice and a terrific manager.

She, on the other hand is pragmatic and down to earth and really enjoys her job. She always says openly she has the best of both worlds and that his job is far more difficult than hers. They just enjoy life together and don't judge and never take on board what other people say. They travel each year to wonderful places and generally just enjoy each others company and have fun. Nice people.

I know another couple quite well also who are just about to get married. They figured after raising three kids and being together for 18 years it must be 'the real thing' so they have decided to tie the knot.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 19, 2009 12:59 PM

Hi Folks

Moderation, albeit necessary sometimes when people do not stick to the issue and instead get personal, is impeding this blog and any others here.

RSVP if you need to moderate please ensure it is directed towards personal abuse...not at challenging points of view...

Kurli in an ideal world we would all meet our soul mate and live happily ever after...

As i''m sure you know, we don't.

We are faced with so many challenges and so many changes.

Vows/committments were done at/in a single point in time. Change is inevitable.

How many people 'out there' truly live in a vibrant long term relationship where both partners are growing individually and together?
I'm not sure. I hope its more than I think.

The vows taken are only the tip of the iceberg re 'expectations' unsaid..and even unaware to both parties....and thats just for starters for those who are approaching it with the right intentions...whatever 'right' is...

I might just make the point that a lot of kids are not messed up with families that send conflicting signals.
Perhaps it is helping them to 'adapt' to an ever changing world...one hopefully...that one day may start dealing with the fundamental black and white paradigms and structures our generation and the ones before us faced.

This blog is so good because there are so many valid points of view here....

I hope it can evolve further without 'unnecessary' moderation.

Posted by: isidore at December 19, 2009 12:58 PM

What's TGIS? And you are looking for an 18 year old and you are 42, hmmm, hope it's a new Caprice!

Posted by: iaminperth at December 19, 2009 12:50 PM

Posted by: kurli at December 19, 2009 8:07 AM
Kurli - are you saying you think a romantic promise made in a young couples youth - often with their first love - is a biding agreement for life?
Those that break it, are to be shamed ?

I know of so many couples/women who stayed together when they were well way past even liking each other, because of the stigma of being labeled divorcees.
Thank goodness to the womens lib movement for putting an end to that .

Old fashioned sentiments like 'fighting for your country' and a 'job for life', deserved to be replaced with 'live in the moment'.

Kind regards Kurli.
Rene

Posted by: grosrene at December 19, 2009 11:33 AM

Hey Rene

' Caprice ' haha i had a datsun 200b ...... wagon too!

fully sick bro!

FG:)

Posted by: feelgood76 at December 19, 2009 11:06 AM

Sorry guys and gals,but what happened to "Marriage Vows"?

Either the individual LEAVES the marital home before starting a relationship(casual or otherwise) or just doesnt play around.
Talk about having your cake & eating it too!
.
I thought that marriage was a serious committment.........silly me.
No wonder there are so many messed up kids around when their parents are sending conflicting signals re appropriate behaviour.

As for the time lapse in Moderation it's pretty woeful compared with last year's set up.

Posted by: kurli at December 19, 2009 8:07 AM

Posted by: iaminperth at December 17, 2009 10:27 PM

Why stop there Perthy ? - add to that the GFC, global warming, overpopulation, terrorism ...

And to think - it all started so innocently, in the backseat of a 'Caprice' !

(TGIS...just)

Rene

Posted by: grosrene at December 19, 2009 12:04 AM

Well done Margarida, thank you!

Posted by: willow29 at December 18, 2009 10:12 PM

I have to say I'm disappointed with the slow moderation and turn over of this topic, which is stunting what would otherwise be a very lively topic.

Posted by: willow29 at December 18, 2009 9:27 PM

Hi Folks

Willow good points re the female side.
Many modern women don't just contribute...they earn much more than the male. So point taken there.
My last 2 partners earned more than me. Good on 'em too. Never bothered me.
I kinda liked it :)

Posted by: isidore at December 18, 2009 7:42 PM

Just goes to show that we arent really all that sophisticated and that our relationship structures are in so many ways outdated.

Posted by: isidore at December 17, 2009 6:49 PM

May i just say, your post expressed alot of good old fashioned common sense.
cheers (tgif)
R

Posted by: grosrene at December 18, 2009 12:52 PM

Hi bily, sorry for your pain, but we were actually commenting on an particular hypothetical scenario that Rene put forward. I'm sure we all agree that it cuts both ways. Good luck.

Posted by: willow29 at December 18, 2009 11:53 AM

how come theres alot man talk.doesnt the woman side of things about having affair also counts.proberly not because most of the blogs are from women.Talking about loyality.my ex fiancee keep bugging me to a buy place in early janurary and sell my unit to finace it.it wasnt good enough to rent out my unit.she wanted to show my trust in the relationship.ok brought the place and 3 weeks later she leaves me day before mothers day.ever since then she wants nothing to do with me.i sold the place 2 months later[taking a years wages in lossess]because i couldnt afford the repayments and i was isloted because the transport was next to none.had no car but she did.so overall stop being one sided when coming to us men being not the loyal partner

Posted by: bily123 at December 18, 2009 8:50 AM

Posted by: ali1974 at December 17, 2009 8:04 PM
So whilst everyone else around knows that he is cheating on her and hurting her, it's ok so long as his wife doesn't find out??

Ali- thanks for the pov !!! I think you've made your position very loud and clear .

and on a point of clarification :
"A hardworking married man, with 'at home' children, becomes involved in an affair with another woman, who is unknown to either his family or friends ."
He has been very discreet.

Posted by: grosrene at December 17, 2009 10:44 PM

Just one more thing and then I can't be bothered any more. The guy will be teaching his male children that this is the way adults treat their wives and will be teaching his female children that's the way you can expect your future partner to behave. Children learn by example and in my book this is a lousy example. Unfortunately lousy seems to be the way some parents behave at the moment and you only have to see the consequences with all the teenage violence on the streets. My advice, grow a backbone, speak to your wife, if you can't work it out, work together for the sake of the children. Provide a good role model for the kids and then you will have done something worthwhile.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 17, 2009 10:27 PM

Posted by: aquamanda56 at December 17, 2009 9:21 PM
They went into this relationship knowing the limitations (i'm assuming), it was their choice and now they want to have exclusive rights?

Yep - a reasonable assumption imo.

"... After all, you had both committed to casual dating and nothing serious." Blog topic quote.

Posted by: grosrene at December 17, 2009 10:21 PM

Amanda - I would agree if that was indeed the scenario. But what if she didnt know about the wife until after she'd fallen in love?

What if he had been telling her that he was living with his wife in name only.... that it was a mutual decision for him and his wife?

The trouble with hypotheticals is we just don't know. We are only surmising on the limited information available. And this translates to real life. We dont know the circumstances of either party.

To put it in context, I had a friend, - a gorgeous, smart, athlete, who was married to a beautiful petite woman. They had a son who he adored, but she was extremely abusive - I mean physically abusive. He went to the cops who laughed at him. He really wanted to leave, as he was afraid for his safety and hers (that he might hurt her in defense) but was afraid for his son.

He never actually cheated on his wife, but he became emotionally involved in someone sympathetic, until such time when he considered his son was free from risk. He left her and they now share custody.

Now if he had cheated, would we not perhaps sympathise, knowing the full details?

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 10:15 PM

Posted by: ali1974 at December 17, 2009 8:04 PM

Indeed, i didn't follow the premise of the topic by verbatim.

As you point out, I've embellished it by adding to the dynamic the triangle; and might be forgiven for that by the vast proportion of us in our 30-60s - as being way more relevant to our circumstances.

I'm sure that small bit of 'poetic license', can be indulged for the sake of hypothetical debate. yes? or is that also a breach of ethics (?!) geez...

Posted by: grosrene at December 17, 2009 9:50 PM

Wow! Well said Lovely Ali - Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at December 17, 2009 9:23 PM

Ok...there's been a lot of comment about the central character here...the man who has taken a lover. (or woman) And the lover now wants a relationship and wants to expose the trist.......

Well, what about this lover? They went into this relationship knowing the limitations (i'm assuming), it was their choice and now they want to have exclusive rights? What does that say about the lover, how can their action be out of love for the Instigator of this scenario. It appears to me to be an action out of selfishness, it's not honouring the pact originally made and it is certainly not having any regard for the pain it will cause to the wife and children. At least half of the responsibility for this predicament has to lie with the Lover.

Posted by: aquamanda56 at December 17, 2009 9:21 PM

Good post, Isadore and I agree with you on most points except that I think men have a distinct advantage in their 40's plus, in that many modern women also contribute to the household finances as well as having children.

Maintaining their 20 year old shape is more difficult - breasts and belly stretched from birth and feeding. So if a woman sacrifices her shape for marriage and offspring, is it fair that her husband says "sorry hun, you just dont look like the same woman I married. I prefer this 20 year old nubile woman.."?

I know that in my own case, when my husband left, I thought "jeez, you could have done it when I was still beautiful".

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 8:42 PM

hmmm...don't know if my last response logged through as my internet dropped out...so apologies if this is a double....
Ali
-----------------
Posted by: feelgood76 at December 16, 2009 10:57 PM
Well posted FG! :-)

----------------
Posted by: aloveoflife at December 16, 2009 11:16 PM
Totally agree with Willow, Perthy and Alove, it's betrayal. He's married.

If he want's his bit on the side, then be a big man and first off - leave his wife (and I'm referring to divorce and not just leave for the night to return at will). After they have divorced, go get his bit on the side. Anything other than that is unacceptable.

----------------
Posted by: grosrene at December 15, 2009 3:44 PM
"it is a casual relationship, suited to both parties"

But the thing here is...both parties implies there is only him and his lover. The reality is that the wife and children are also party to the relationship by default. As much as he might try to forget them when he is with his lover and his lover may not want to hear about them, they are still party to the relationship.

"At no point has the man stopped loving his wife and children"
To treat his wife with such disregard would indicate no love. There may be like, but love....I seriously doubt would still be there. Why would he behave in such a way if he did truly love her. In my mind: he's a spineless, greedy creep!!!

"Confused, he refuses to leave his wife"
Really...he's not that confused. He no longer wants his wife, but doesn't have the stones to make a real man decision. He is comfortable to have everything done for him. But he also wants the heightened excitement of no responsibility and being 'naughty'. He knows he doesn't want his wife and knows he doesn't really want his lover...he has what he would consider the best of both worlds!

"Is there verbal contract implicit between them, not to disclose their relationship? "
No. Unless it was stipulated at the outset this is his tough luck. No sympathy! Good cliche for you: Play with fire gonna get burnt.

"This scenario might play out more often that you think"
That may be true, but it doesn't make it right. We just become more exhausted by the crap of these instances and become blase until it occurs within our circles.

----------------
Posted by: grosrene at December 16, 2009 11:45 PM
"He is to be utterly candid about this ?....wouldn't this just hurt the wifes feelings and damage their family for no possible gain to either of them ?....
Protecting her feelings by not telling her"

So whilst everyone else around knows that he is cheating on her and hurting her, it's ok so long as his wife doesn't find out?? He is already hurting her by being unfaithful to his family. He is also lying to his children in this scenario. Think a little deeper.
If he truly doesn't want to hurt his wife's feelings and damage his family, then 1. don't cheat and commit infidelity, 2. to ease that sexual frustration, he might want to consider resorting to mrs. palmer rather than a lover.

If a couple enter matrimony with the clear understanding that the relationship is to be monogamous, there is no way to justify infidelity. No matter how bad he might think his sex life is, you can not justify that behaviour
Ali
:-(

Posted by: ali1974 at December 17, 2009 8:04 PM

Hi Folks

seekingtheone123 I empathise with you...try being male 45 and looking for someone without kids, without 'ties'..who is fit and slim and who doesnt see herself as over the hill ;)
Keep your chin up, they are 'out there'..thing is they aren't always online...i'm just about to take myself off for a while and look in the real world..as clearly i'm getting a bit jaded with it all ;)
Theres always someone that comes along...eventually ;)

iaminperth you are spot on. If both parties are in agreement with their 'arrangement' then imo there is no issue. Its nobodys business but theirs....obviously.

In a nutshell; transparency and ethics.

grosrene you bring up so many pertinent points. Good to see you stirring the pot.
I think its totally unreasonable for 'any' partner to withold 'something' that is fundamental to that relationships continued functionality or health...or something that was fundamental that defined or maintained the relationship.
Sex for example; if either partner decides they don't want it anymore then thats a selfish decision...or perhaps an 'individual' decision and is often overlooked in infidelity cases.
A marriage is a big decision...ive never done it and do not plan to.
Many seem to think its all beer and skittles, get together, get married, have a few kids and then ......what did we just do???
Those vows we took? Hey werent they just written in a book that some priest gave to us? Cant remember 'em!
Kids? Umm I didnt really want them...and now weve got 3 and youve put on 15kg and don't give a shi...about 'us' anymore ...i'm working 60 hours a week because we need the money, we dont talk anymore, you dont touch me,.etc etc etc....

Its a tough gig for many...and you dont have to have done it to see that.

Life is complex for many. People do genuinely have to live with difficult situations. Its so easy to judge not knowing what exactly is going on.

I think anyone who decides to get married should think long and hard about their vows..or mission statement..or contract...
What is it that you need? What are the fundamental things that are important to you? Can you provide your partner with what they need and want?

How many of us 'think' about that before we enter into 'any' relationship?

We are complex. We are changing....particularly if we are genuinely looking to learn from life.

I've said before that marriage, if people need to do that, could be approached as a finite/renewable contract where partners revisit the relationship and their contract and then decide to either renew it, amend it, or move on into life in different directions.

Sounds clinical. But isnt so much about what we do in respect to choosing a partner like that anyway?

Theres financial considerations, attraction, status, health, sex, etc to consider.

The fact many of us are still looking probably supports the fact that we are looking for certain qualities in a partner. Call it discerning or fussy or particular.

It is what it is. I'm happy to say i'm one of those people.

Some people should never get married on 'traditional' vows and expectations.

Tiger Woods is rich, successful and it seems intent on screwing anything that presents itself. We make judgements on that. Do we know what their arrangement was? I'm guessing it was traditional...but he couldnt fulfill that.

Imagine if a guy like Tiger said hey, I need some kids, give me some children and I will provide you with everything you need and want..BUT...I cannot commit to being monogamous with you, and I dont expect you to be with me. I travel all over the world and opportunities present themselves....but I want a great mother for my kids.

'May' have saved him some fuss perhaps?

Just goes to show that we arent really all that sophisticated and that our relationship structures are in so many ways outdated.

Posted by: isidore at December 17, 2009 6:49 PM

Rene

Obviously you've watched Dr phill... has any of it sunk in..?

Quote: Confused, he refuses to leave his wife, and child, and tells her so.

Quote: What should he do ?

He should understand his feelings before making desired contact with the lover. He once loved his wife as you say... So therefore love remains underneath the confusion. To understand his feelings prior to contact with a lover will give the best possible outcome.

If a mate asked me what he should do... I would tell him...; ' It's your life.., be true to yourself.'


FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at December 17, 2009 6:12 PM

Seeking - welcome to the blogs. It sounds like you've had some bad luck! Hang tight, the right man will come along when you least expect it. Take heart.

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 6:07 PM

Your post of 1.45pm said that his wife no longer satisfies him sexually, which was the implied reason he felt the need to have sex elsewhere. Hence my reply.

Do you really think that a man wife's role to each other is the same as a person to their work or business partners? I mean, Ive had the bank screw me a few times and yes, I do mistakenly expect their loyalty, but I really wouldnt put them in the same category as a partner.

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 6:02 PM

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 10:59 AM

Loyalty ; to family, to friends, to business partners, country,political party and church etc isn't defined by a sexual satisfaction nor obligation.

It is a decision to help, to defend and to promote (etc) their wellbeing. Often even in times of dispute.

I didn't say that she was denying him 'his conjugal rights' - is there even such a thing?
Nor did i say , or even suggest that either party HAD to sexually satisfy the other as a matter of obligation.

That would be a rather dire indictment of marriage should it become a contractual requirement, and the only means of finding a solution to a lack of sexual attraction between them , and the only hope of maintaining the integrity of the parental responsibility to the children.

Posted by: aloveoflife at December 16, 2009 11:16 PM

If your saying that the wifes right to be offended at his infidelity, and have the clichéd response to execute a divorce (out of resentment); is a higher right than that of the children's right to have both parents to care and nurture them ... i disagree.

thanks for the pov

Posted by: grosrene at December 17, 2009 1:37 PM

hi guys
i am looking for a permanent relationship, i am in my 30's now and it is proving impossible. Everyone i meet there is so much baggage. Majority of men are divorced and have so many kids to so many diff women. that is a common prob. Anohter common prob is men say they are single when they are married. Then i meet attractive men who only want a one night stand. i have tried net dating, going to single nights, social clubs, and of course the good old bars n clubs. Is 30 the but off point 4 a decent man???? Is it just all the leftovers now. Stale, mouldy last months dinner left on the menu.

Posted by: seekingtheone123 at December 17, 2009 1:21 PM

There are a lot of people who turn a blind eye to their partners infidelities which, I believe, is fine. Provided it is accepted and agreed to by both parties. If it is an arrangement that suits both parties, that's their choice.

Sneaking around and lying however is not the go, it's just pathetic I think.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 17, 2009 1:04 PM

I was just reminded of an RSVP man who told me straight up that he was in an arranged marriage and that he had never loved her and now that they had the requisite heir, no longer shared her bed.

I wasn't interested but it goes to show it does happen - and he was a well respected person in the medical profession.

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 12:30 PM

Rene - he is LOYAL? I don't understand that conclusion. What if his wife is NOT denying him his "conjugal rights"? Does that make a difference?

And, does he not have a responsibility for satisfying sex with is partner? Or is it just her that has to satisfy him?

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 10:59 AM

Well said FG, you're not just a pretty face after all.I think the miserable rene ....

* Rolls eyes

Posted by: iaminperth at December 17, 2009 12:03 AM

My advice would be to stay aware and understand his feelings... Remember, 'prevention is better than cure.'

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at December 16, 2009 10:57 PM

"DUDe"- . quoting Dr Phil ??

Honestly - If your mate/brother/client asked for your advice on this situation - are you tell me thats what you'd offer ???

Posted by: grosrene at December 17, 2009 10:53 AM

Rene, this might help.... :)

Early Dismissal

It is near the Christmas break of the school year. The students have
turned in all their work and there is really nothing more to do.
All the children are restless and the teacher decides to have an early
dismissal.

Teacher: "Whoever answers the questions I ask, first and correctly can
leave early today."

Little Johnny says to himself "Good, I want to get outta here. I'm smart
and will answer the question."

Teacher: "Who said 'Four Score and Seven Years Ago'?"

Before Johnny can open his mouth, Susie says, "Abraham Lincoln."

Teacher: "That's right Susie, you can go home."

Johnny is mad that Susie answered the question first.

Teacher: "Who said 'I Have a Dream'?"

Before Johnny can open his mouth, Mary says, "Martin Luther King."

Teacher: "That's right Mary, you can go."

Johnny is even madder than before.

Teacher: "Who said 'Ask not, what your country can do for you'?"

Before Johnny can open his mouth, Nancy says, "John F. Kennedy."

Teacher: "That's right Nancy, you may also leave."

Johnny is boiling mad that he has not been able to answer to any of the
questions.

When the teacher turns her back Johnny says, "I wish these bitches would
keep their mouths shut!"

The teacher turns around: "NOW WHO SAID THAT?"

Johnny: "TIGER WOODS. CAN I GO NOW?"

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 8:55 AM

Rene @4.53 - Im not sure why the first para was in parenthesis - who were you quoting there?

Ok a more considered answer as promised:

"What should he do ?"
Well if he is worried about any assets and doesn't want to lose them, he better fess up before the mistress does. If there's no secret, there's no bargaining tool for a payout. (Thinking of Tiger's scenario).

"What are the social, and legal rules here ?"
Socially - the rules are "dont get caught".
Legally, if he had a long term relationship with his lover, then she has rights and their possible offspring also have rights, ie maintenance.

"Is there verbal contract implicit between them, not to disclose their relationship?"
Well, as per the social rule..."dont get caught", secrecy is usually par for the course. However as Amanda said, there are many famous lovers/mistresses in history. I think the exception to the rule is based on how powerful you are to quash the gossip!

"Is a couples love and marriage predicated and reciprocated purely by the rule of monogamy, and the expectation/ demand to be entirely exclusive, forever ?"
I agree with Feelgood here - it depends on the relationship. Generally/commonly the answer is yes. But there are exceptions and as Perth said, if it is acceptable between both parties...why not?.

"Can a man/woman love two women/men at the same time ? "
Yes, you can't control who you love. What you can control is what you chose to do about it.

"What are the best/worst case solutions, and outcomes, available to them ?"
Worse case scenario is that he destroys his wife and family with the hurt and betrayal he has caused.

Best case scenario, the wife and the mistress love each other and they form a trinity....

Ok, Ive tried not to be flippant and of course the Tiger Woods scenario is still fresh on the airways, which may skew my opinions.

Well done Rene, for the provocativeness of your post. Its a bit like the old days :)

Posted by: willow29 at December 17, 2009 7:11 AM

My advice would be to stay aware and understand his feelings... Remember, 'prevention is better than cure.'

FG - im trying to work out what that means ...
i guess it sounded cool when Dr Phil said it, BUT REALLY !??!

Posted by: grosrene at December 17, 2009 12:33 AM

Well said FG, you're not just a pretty face after all. I think the miserable rene has been aroun d here befo0re as well. My kitten is half asleep on my keyboard so can't access all the keys. sorry 'bout that..........failed again.;;;;;;;;;;;boo hoo me
she has two little feet and her head collap[sed1 on the ksy exhausted. My dog weighs abut 40kgs and kitten 1.2 and kitten alaready has the u-pper hand, or should I ay paw...

Posted by: iaminperth at December 17, 2009 12:03 AM

Posted by: feelgood76 at December 16, 2009 10:57 PM
...- contradiction here dude, is he married or dating..? Moving on..

Why is that a contradiction? - his solid commitments to both his career and his children are no contradictions to his decision to have a lover (a casual relationship ).

As for the reasons for his wanting a lover /lovers etc. May wealthy and successful family men are invited to enjoy the pleasure of a woman's company.... after all they often say "all the good ones are taken"

Perhaps he was young and 'in love' when he married - and is not any longer 'in love' and no longer young - BUT HE IS LOYAL.
His wife is family .

The lover is a playmate, threatening to hurt his family. Capisco?

Posted by: grosrene at December 16, 2009 11:57 PM

Posted by aquamanda56 at December 16, 2009 9:31 PM

First allow me to say that the masculine context of the example is purely to simplify the narrative. Please substitute the female partner as per the case.

Excellent example too might i add.
Same with Simone De beauvoir and many other 'liberated wives'.

Thanks for that.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 16, 2009 10:22 PM

Perth- are you of the opinion then, that if a wife or husband becomes uninterested in sex with a marriage partner ( after many years together- its very common, or due to sexual dysfunction,poor health, lack of confidence, mental health issues etc ); and even if he feel that he still loves her as his partner, and he definitely wants to remain a FT father to their children; that he must then he must be prepared to forgo sex altogether.
("That's that fella" - your married now and thats the end of it! you gave up your balls when you got married...)

Simply put - Another woman as a sexual playmate is a breech of their marriage contract - and thats it - hes 'NASTY' is the only factor to consider.Case closed.

So your opinion is that must tell his wife, upfront; that he is not anymore interested/prepared to be unsatisfied by her sexually;

and, to add further insult to injury ; that he has met, or intends on getting sexual relief/enjoyment from some another woman/women (or professionals) from that point onwards.

He is to be utterly candid about this ?

And if he 'does the right thing' he has then right to expect to be entirely respected for his honesty and candor, with a sympathetic and understanding wife who will not threaten divorce, or other retribution ?

Right? (*coughs)
In reality, wouldn't this just hurt the wifes feelings and damage their family for no possible gain to either of them ?

Why is it assumed hes ONLY being sneaky and underhanded and hence deserves to be punished? Isn't he also protecting her feelings by not telling her?

Perth is that honestly a preferable solution to him keeping his silence about his intentions or his reasons ?

Posted by: grosrene at December 16, 2009 11:45 PM

A casual relationship, suited to both parties - i.e. the MARRIED MAN and ANOTHER WOMAN. So it is suitable to them, what about his wife, what about his children? It all sounds a bit selfish to me.

Poor pet, he's hardworking, so whilst he's off with his bit on the side, his loyal wife is doing the hard yakka with THEIR 'at home' children. I'm with Perth and Willow on this one, he has breached his vows of trust, honesty and fidelity and does not deserve his family. A leopard never changes it spots unless you skin it.

Posted by: aloveoflife at December 16, 2009 11:16 PM

grosrene something tells me you've been around here before..?

Your example was a hardworking married man, with 'at home' children, becomes involved in an affair with another woman, who is unknown to either his family or friends.
Now, your reply to Willow: the topic refers to casual relationships - contradiction here dude, is he married or dating..? Moving on..,

Is there verbal contract implicit between them, not to disclose their relationship? Answer; Well your telling the story so how do we know.

Is a couples love and marriage predicated and reciprocated purely by the rule of monogamy, and the expectation/ demand to be entirely exclusive, forever ? Answer; Depends on the couples involved.

Can a man/woman love two women/men at the same time ? Answer; Yes i believe so. It is possible but who is willing to except it...? Comes down to partner choice, the situation at hand and honesty within himself.

What are the best/worst case solutions, and outcomes, available to them :? Answer; Best outcome is to start with himself and be honest with his ture feelings. Ask why did the affair start in the first place.? Ask when did the attraction begin..? Is there still an attraction to the wife? Does he still love the wife? Is he really attracted to the lover or attracted to the excitement..? Is it just convenient for him to be in the marriage.

Best outcome: Only a true self answered question will discover his thoughts. Worst solution; Hold back regret and anger. This will only cause further implications down the track.


My advice would be to stay aware and understand his feelings... Remember, 'prevention is better than cure.'

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at December 16, 2009 10:57 PM

Rene, the relationship is between the man and wife. Any other romantic liaison , whether casual or otherwise is a breech of trust and fidelity to the marriage. I might have to re-read your responses when I get up in the morning and put more time into a response. Goodnight all.

Posted by: willow29 at December 16, 2009 10:57 PM

I simply see it as a breaking of trust as I stad. Break one and lie, where does it end. Not for me and no old wounds I can assure you, not that it's any of your business. However, if it sits okay with both parties that's fine. If it's sneaky and underhanded, nasty. Just my opinion and really can't see why people bother to get married in the first place if they are still going to sniff around. I simply believe you are either married or you are not.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 16, 2009 10:22 PM

I think Rene has raised a topic that many would find difficult to discuss. I am not going to comment on the wrong or right or morals of it. It is certainly nothing new and has been something that has been acceptable in certain societies throughout history. Sometimes such infidelities were the norm in the upper classes where the wife bore the children, managed the household (didn't DO the house work) and presented herself as at social functions and was often times relieved not having to always perform her wifely duty (in bed)..the master had his mistress for this purpose. As long as it was discreet and not flaunted about it had a function and was not discussed. I think perhaps humans were not meant to have only one partner for life but different partners for different periods of our lives...serial monogamy? Infidelities are not limited to the scenario drawn by Rene (of course) If anyone has read the biography of Anais Nin, an extraordinary woman, you would know. She had many lovers through her life but always remained loyal (not faithful) to her husband...personally I can't believe that he didn't know. She for many years divided her time between her husband and lover's house holds on opposite sides of the US...there was a movie made about it, as was one made about her affair with the writer Henry Miller. Perhaps sometimes for those involved it's a case of accepting that for them they would rather have the part of their partner that is theirs (and share) than not to have it at all. Certainly there are many of us, the majority I think, who couldn't live that way

Posted by: aquamanda56 at December 16, 2009 9:31 PM

Iaminperth -
"I would say that no matter whether love were involved or not, or if the guy is hardworking or not or whatever, these things are totally irrelevant."

Not even the war/law courts are allowed to be that ignorant of circumstance ... unless your judge, jury and executioner that is .
(I sense a old wound perhaps?)

"The simple answer is that it is the breaking of trust"

What of the lovers pact to remain on the 'down low' ?

For myself ( society ??) i'm not prepared say whether either parties is clearly negligent here, to be declared liable for punishment and compensation; although i am prepare to see that an easy scapegoat would be the rakish husband.

To make myself clearer - I am asking from the perspective of equitable arbitration, and insight.

thanks for the pov
R

Posted by: grosrene at December 16, 2009 5:16 PM

Willow29 - the topic refers to casual relationships -

"So you've been seeing each other casually for a few weeks, maybe a month. And perhaps dated other people at the same time. After all, you had both committed to casual dating and nothing serious. You are having fun hooking up with no strings attached."

Your response - "Rene, a 'relationship" for most people, implies fidelity" - sounds as if your stating that 'casual relationships' by their 'open' to others agreement ( either implicit or explicit) aren't real relationships; and hence might also imply, that they aren't really a breach of contract between wife and husband then.

Its only when the lover wants more of a 'closed' relationship, that it becomes a conflict of interests between the husband and wife.

He isn't prepared to do so .

Posted by: grosrene at December 16, 2009 4:53 PM

Rene, I would say that no matter whether love were involved or not, or if the guy is hardworking or not or whatever, these things are totally irrelevant.

The simple answer is that it is the breaking of trust. It is deception and I would believe that once that trust is broken, it is going to be extremely hard or impossible to regain it. It is stealing from the marriage, it is stealing time and money and many other things.

Whether you think it is right or wrong is entirely irrelevant as it is just the way society works and it is taking the decision making totally away from the other party and treating them with contempt.

Posted by: iaminperth at December 16, 2009 11:55 AM

Rene, a 'relationship" for most people, implies fidelity. Im sure that we are all mature enough to realise that infidelity does happen, but in the scenario you have described, he has chosen not to tell his wife. Why? Because he understands that there are moral/social boundaries being crossed. He probably also realises that his wife would feel hurt and betrayed by his actions.

As far as the "rules" are concerned regarding the silence of his lover...again, you yourself are implying that it is not the "right" thing to do - hence needing secrecy.

I have an idea that the Tiger Woods scenario follows this premise and that in this case, the woman scorned was not only his wife but his multiple lovers - I suspect each of them believed to be "in love" and the "only (other) woman". And cliched as it is..... hell hath no fury.....

Posted by: willow29 at December 16, 2009 9:39 AM

"A lover tries to stand in well with the pet dog of the house. "
Moliere

Grosrene - Moliere knows his stuff ; )

Posted by: willow29 at December 15, 2009 10:15 PM

I'll expand upon the question:

For example - from a males perspective...

A hardworking married man, with 'at home' children, becomes involved in an affair with another woman, who is unknown to either his family or friends .

It is a casual relationship, suited to both parties, and is at first purely for mutual pleasure and entertainment.

At no point has the man stopped loving his wife and children; but, yes - he is keeping it a secret from the family.

His reasons for wanting a lover are his own.

As time passes, the lover becomes more attached and wants to become more involved with him. Both parties have invested both time and money into their relationship...and it has become a bond.
His lover discloses her deep feelings and desires to be 'more'.

Confused, he refuses to leave his wife, and child, and tells her so. She, then threatens to disclose the affair to his wife in a fit of jealousy/anger.

What should he do ?

What are the social, and legal rules here ?

Is there verbal contract implicit between them, not to disclose their relationship?

Is a couples love and marriage predicated and reciprocated purely by the rule of monogamy, and the expectation/ demand to be entirely exclusive, forever ?

Can a man/woman love two women/men at the same time ?

What are the best/worst case solutions, and outcomes, available to them ?

It occurs to me that this scenario plays itself out more often than one cares to admit, and hence i wonder what have been your experiences - and what advice would you offer to others in this predicament now, in order to help them avoid the destructive impulses that often surface ?

kind regards,

Rene

Ps - are you worried that disclosure of past liaisons might jeopardize your future chances here ? Should they ?

Posted by: grosrene at December 15, 2009 3:44 PM

And what of affairs with lovers ?
What are "the rules"?

"A lover tries to stand in well with the pet dog of the house. "
Moliere

Posted by: grosrene at December 14, 2009 2:29 AM

thanks Alove!

Posted by: wahinetoa00 at December 6, 2009 12:38 AM

Yeah MaybeP, what's the go? Have you got some roof racks for the YAK yet? We are all waiting up here for you and your green machine. Last weekend was amazing up here. Come up for a day trip and paddle. Umm unfortunately you won't be allowed to leave the kids in the car boot - just too hot at the moment . . ;)

Glitter xo

Posted by: glitteringblue at December 1, 2009 6:46 PM

Maybe....are your exams in the distant past now?
Wondering how you are travelling??

kurli

Posted by: kurli at December 1, 2009 9:44 AM

Another newbie!! Welcome to the madhouse wahinetoa00, Alove

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 29, 2009 10:50 PM

nastiegirl, do you come with a warning label - Beware, plays games?
It is a sad time that despite the progress of the modern world that our egos can't take rejection, even if it's better to cut our losses and move on. It's tough when feelings aren't reciprocated, but it's tougher when expectations aren't met and it ruins everything. These fears we all bring to the table.
If your heart can handle it, I say be genuine. At the end of the day if you can't say what you want and be OK with that, what hope do you have?
x

Posted by: wahinetoa00 at November 29, 2009 10:16 PM

well 2 point i would like to point out some pearls of wisdom i have learnt along the way.
1 if you want a relationship:
then go for it
2 if you don't want a relationship but want to keep seeing them casually....
tell them you want a relationship then keep having fun casually just don't get caught.
PROBLEM SOVLED

Posted by: nastiegirl at November 28, 2009 10:24 PM

maybe...are you hiding?
;-)

Posted by: ali1974 at November 22, 2009 6:37 PM

Hi there I am new to this dating scene and have quickly learnt there is more to rsvp than just putting up a profile. So far have meet some really genuine gentlemen. One first life experience was a hello kiss (wow) I have really been too scared to meet again. The chemistry i felt was alive! I think I may have lived too long behind closed doors??? I have heard back from a few of the gentlemen to also say they have found there special one at present after only a few dates, so i am getting the impression perhaps couples are exploring relationships
very openly and spontaneously.

Posted by: girlgolden at November 22, 2009 1:13 PM

ahhh Ali.. .a woman after my own heart xo

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 21, 2009 11:52 PM

Hey Ali,

I have made a few really good women friends on here...all from Melbourne. Basically, a few of the bloggers that got on together decided to meet (in Melbourne...its where the action is) to get to know each other...we all had a ball.

I had an absolute ball, met a few really nice women who are now my friends (and they are all friends now too)...I am going to visit them next month...meeting at the Transport Bar...always good fun there...you should come along.

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at November 19, 2009 9:33 PM

oh yeah...and I don't waste my time on guys who leave me hanging...especially when I've openly indicated interest....
Again, it's an archived blog discussion where if a guy is truly interested, he'll get/keep in touch.
;-)

Posted by: ali1974 at November 19, 2009 7:22 PM

heehee..geez Bob, that's two women on here who's week you've made ;-)
xo

Posted by: ali1974 at November 19, 2009 7:18 PM

*Mwah* Bob,
If only that were true, but it's not. I'm not a clubber and don't get approached anywhere else. So I play here, on another site, the gym and via a dating agency. In fact the dating agency have been the worst!! You'd think if they know what you're looking for, they'd be professional about it and send you out with someone close to the 'vision' (in attitude/appearance). As a dear friend recently put it, this is all part of my journey and one day.....
I do get to enjoy some lovely eye candy and I do get to blog with you wonderful people..so really...there is an upside to it all.
And to borrow your self deprecating 'approach' to life, it might have something to do with the 'fk off' statement that appears across my forehead when I meet tools (and I'm not talking bunnings) ;-)
Ali
*off to make some jelly*
:-0

Posted by: ali1974 at November 19, 2009 7:17 PM

Hey Ali,

You are pretty cute....and obviously a great, fun girl going by the blogging. Cant imagine that you have too much trouble meeting guys...but Melbourne seems to be the singles capital...I reckon about 50% of singles in my bracket (46 - 58) are from there

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at November 18, 2009 10:20 PM

Hey Maybe, just dropping back to the photo discussion a couple of days ago. The photos have a definite impact. I have recently updated mine (having gone back to blonde from brunette) and the number of kisses has improved. My profile remains the same, only the primary photo was changed. So give it a go...take a stack..pull allsorts of faces to make yourself laugh and somewhere in there will be 1 or 2 that you like...
*send you good fortune and wishes*
Ali

Posted by: ali1974 at November 18, 2009 8:43 PM

Hi Jen,
Long time no see here
Ali
:-)

Posted by: ali1974 at November 18, 2009 7:33 PM

Congratulations Virgo... I am really happy for you. Lots of love and best wishes... xoxo
Krazy :)

Posted by: karen59 at November 18, 2009 6:35 PM

Hey Virgo, my last message to you..I woke-up the other night my eyes in tears crying over my dream..my sister and I went to a wedding shop, my sister and the sales lady force me to wear a wedding dress. I cried coz I refused to wear a wedding dress. i was helpless but i can't stop them to dressed me up. My sister told me, whether I like it or not, I can't refused !...there I woke-up crying !..I wish I can pass to you this omen vision...mwah!

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 18, 2009 11:16 AM

Congratulations from me too Virgo. I'm thrilled for you.

You have been a bright spark on the blogs and will be missed.

Hi everyone.... hope everyone is well and happy.

Jen

Posted by: jen234 at November 18, 2009 7:03 AM

Virgo, good luck, I wish I won't see you here browsing again for next Mr Enuff, blogs its ok. Post a pics at success story. You are the second blogger made it (hope he's the one). I know two bloggers made it, found one another here in this blogs, since then I never heard them again. I wish both of them still together and still happy !
I hate to see you go in these blogs but you must to leave this sin city immediately !... lol

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 17, 2009 6:29 PM

Take care Virgo ,
Thank you for making me feel so welcome when I first got here and for all the fun, crazy and 'sherioush' exchanges.
We'll miss you and as Maybe said, drop in once in a while.
Ali
xoxo

Posted by: ali1974 at November 17, 2009 5:59 PM

Hey FG,

Couldn't agree with you more, my friend...sometime it just feels right.

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at November 17, 2009 5:31 PM

Virgo,
I've probably already missed you, but I am so happy for you.
Wishing you all the love and happiness you deserve. xx

And yes FG, I think you are right :)

Posted by: amberlightrose at November 17, 2009 4:38 PM

see guys.... when you know,, you know.

Later mum x

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at November 16, 2009 11:03 PM

Good for you Virgo. I wish you and your family, both existing and new all the very very best for future happiness. Wonderful heartwarming story of success for a lovely lady. Happiness always !!

Posted by: iaminperth at November 16, 2009 10:16 PM

Virgo I'm sure the rest of the gang (who know you so much better than I do) are so happy at your reason for leaving.....Go and be as happy as you dared to hope might happen
(yes sounds double dutch.but you KNOW what I mean)

Just be HAPPY.......hugs from grannie K

Posted by: kurli at November 16, 2009 9:53 PM

awww Virgo.. u brought me to tears. You are one very very special and beautiful woman and you deserve every happiness. All the very best in life and love ... and I agree with Bob.. may we never see you on RSVP as a member again.. but please drop in as a visitor from time to time to give us hope.... MWAH xo ox ox

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 16, 2009 9:48 PM

I just want to say a big ta to the special person that introduced me to Virgo knowing that we would hit it off - I will always be grateful to you for bringing us together, she is a friend I will value for life. Thank you. Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 16, 2009 8:00 PM

Lovely Virgo, I'm so happy for you and proud to call you a friend. I look forward to continuing with our chats and emails and chats and texts and more chats. Lordy we can talk. Love you to the moon, around the stars and through the milky way, Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 16, 2009 6:58 PM

Hey Lizzie,

Believe me, the priviledge is all mine...hope I NEVER see you here again....you are one very special lady.

Boof xoxo

Posted by: simplegame at November 16, 2009 5:47 PM

It's nearly time for me to leave here guys...I'm pretty sure I've found the man that I've been looking for...so I just wanted to say a few things to you all..!

When I joined on here, I had no idea that I would meet such a wonderful bunch of people as yourselves...most of you I've not met, but you have been part of my life for the last 11 months...and it's been my absolute privilege to know you.

Icy...Good luck my friend...keep grinning..!
Belle...You're a special young lady...mwah.
Kurli...You're an awesome chick...xo
Willow...You have such a beautiful heart and soul..xo
Perth...Such a strong woman whom I admire and respect.
Glitter...Keep shining girl...xo
Kaz...I wish you love and happiness...!
Ali...Enjoy Jesse...I'll always remember your Gilligans Island song..mwah...xo
Maybe...Hang in there...you'll find your man.
Amber...You're such a lovely woman...xo
Bob...Thank you for being my good friend...xo
FG...I couldn't have asked for a better surrogate son..luv you...xo
Alove...I love you Brown Eyes...mwah...xoxoxo

I wish you all happiness and love, and hope with all my heart, that you all find what you're looking for..!

Virgo....xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 15, 2009 11:49 AM

Virgo, Im so very happy for you on both accounts xxx

Posted by: willow29 at November 14, 2009 10:09 PM

Hi Maybe, you are sounding much happier and upbeat : )))

My Little Miss Sunshine got a thrashing for 4 hours this morning with my 2 kayak buddies - then the library and now it's "rancho relaxso" (my place) dvd's and yummy lunch . . .mmm what a sublime day it is here on the Sunny Coast, I guess Brissy's like that today too (can't you have a study break and strap your kid to your back and go for a paddle???)

Good luck with your exams.

Luv Glitter xo

Posted by: glitteringblue at November 14, 2009 2:08 PM

Glad your daughter's wedding went so well Virgo.
Hope things will just keep getting better and better for you.
Best wishes xx

Posted by: amberlightrose at November 14, 2009 1:41 PM

Good luck with the exams Maybe :)) & there is nothing wrong with your profile either - profiles are designed to be read!! If there is a perception problem it generally lies with the reader...

Lovestat - i think you were trying to offer constructive views? you are very entitled & welcome to post your views, but be aware, offering "specific person advice" does tend to make these boards overheat.. which is fine as long as you can wear your bruises :)

Maybe - what is with the Broncos?
just says the STORM supporter

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at November 14, 2009 1:33 PM

Interesting... there is no visible profile for Lovestat.. the giver of advice... that always makes me a genuine person suspicious... or should I not be hmmm

Anyways... onwards and upwards and back to the books.. exams finish this week and life can resume :) :) And yes glitter.. that means the green baby will get quite a lot of loving!!!

What a gorgeous day it is out there xo

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 14, 2009 12:01 PM

awwwwwww Virgo that's fantastic... sooo sooo sooooo happy for you and you truly deserve every happiness. Can't wait for more goss ;). Major hugs xo

Icy V V happy for you too and glad nanna's 100th was great. Enjoy NZ it's beautiful. Are you cycling around or ?

Ahh Lovestat.. if only it were a 'tantrum'... I"ve left it active to clear up a 'few things' but the honesty in the heading and removal of photos is due to the now 102 rejections which have I taken over 18 months to acquire. And whilst I think I'm a great catch, it's obvious my photos and perhaps personal appearance doesn't attract the kind of man I"m after. People will say don't change, but the truth is if we aren't willing to offer our best selves, why should others be willing to accept the same. So I'm off to 'reinvent' or rather drop these unwanted kilos and become the woman men I admire/adore/want to know more would want to date and have a future with.

I'm in Brisbane.... wasn't hard finding someone I felt I could at least have a decent conversation with every few days to send a kiss too. Profiles are just glimpses of personalities, and I am a firm believer everyone has something to teach us... and plus.. one can never have too many friends.

So, no 'tanty' going on.. genuine 'reinvention/renovation' phase about to take place, but first it's the right thing to do to finish old business, before completing disappearing my profile :)

Take a chance and send a kiss I say.. I'm not deterred.... just inspired now!

Oh Virgo.. I can't stop smiling for you :) :) :)

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 14, 2009 11:58 AM

Hi Lizzie,

Love couldn't happen to a more beautiful or deserving person than you sweetie......he is a very lucky man to have found you:))

Love you too

Boof xox

Posted by: simplegame at November 14, 2009 9:29 AM

That's great news Virgo (for the wedding and mr. spesh).
*big cheer and grin*
Ali
xo

Posted by: ali1974 at November 14, 2009 8:56 AM

Awwww, Virgo, thank goodness you told, I was going to explode holding your wonderful news in, but I would never break our confidence! Love you, Alove xx

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 14, 2009 12:40 AM

Love ya mum xx

Posted by: feelgood76 at November 13, 2009 11:21 PM

Maybeperfect4u... Long time reader first time poster here. I just wanted to say that you say you are a positive person perhaps stop coming across with 'tantrums' on your profile then. I looked at your profile several times for my single step brother and on those occasions you are dogging men for being superficial or carrying on about making yourself over. If you truly beleive you are a fabulous person what do you need to make over? Taking your picture away and making it private to get kisses is just setting yourself up for false hope. If a man kisses you at least you know he's doing so liking what he sees. 101 rejections, wow! I'd love to know how you even found 101 men in your area that you felt were compatible matches for you!? I have barely found 2 men on here in my area that I would want to kiss. Food for thought anyway.

Posted by: lovestat at November 13, 2009 11:13 PM

Glad it well well Virgo - the wedding and your weekend.

And yes, a big grin on my face........constantly.

Cheers Icy.

Posted by: icycle67 at November 13, 2009 9:26 PM

Hey beautiful bloggers....

First of all...great news Icy, betcha you've good a big grin on your face, and so you should....enjoy my friend, and good good luck...!!

Jodie's wedding was a fairytale come true, a beautiful day for a beautiful couple, I had a few teary moments, but they were tears of joy...my heart was so full of pride when I saw her walk towards her brand spanking new husband...:)

Mr. Spesh flew in an hour after the reception finished, and I spent three wonderful days with him....when I saw him at the airport, I ran and launched myself at him...poor guy got a huge koala hug and smooch, think I nearly knocked him over...he is a beautiful man, and has left an indelible mark on me...!!

Anyway hope all you guys are well...and have a fantastic weekend....!!

Lotsalove.....Virgo..xoxoxoxoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 13, 2009 9:01 AM

These ones are absolutely delicious. From a gourmet shop in Claremont covered in dark chocolate and beautifully fresh.

My daughter also brought me home some buderin ginger coated in this delicious chocolate. Absolutely gorgeos treat now and then.

By the way, I have now lost 9kgs and still enjoy my little treats now and then.

Had yummy steak and salad for dinner with japanese salad dressing. Have four different types on the go now and love them all, very tangy and fresh.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 13, 2009 12:29 AM

Hey Icy, Good for you. Get what you have to get done in NZ and then back again to your lady here,. I am sure she will understand that it's only for two weeks and you will be able to make contact daily anyway,. Don't forget to bring something nice home. It's sort of like a dose of reality at the start of something and I don;t think that hurts at all. I hope it all works out the way you would like it too and all the very best for the future.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 12, 2009 10:51 PM

alove, there was a vendor cart near the eiffel tower (about 2-yrs ago) that made the most delicious fresh crepes (i think i had nuttela and banana)...hmmm.....he was on the right hand side of the bridge as you walk away from the tower....just beware the gypsies.
xo

perthy, envious..I luuurve choc coated coffee beans...have to find another place to buy here after the one I knew closed their doors :-(
hmmm...nothing like a choc-caffeine buzz. I also like the milk covered ones (but not the white choc ones - white best on it's own)
:-)

Posted by: ali1974 at November 12, 2009 9:52 PM

Hi Icy : ))

I am so please for you. I knew it wouldn't be long before a woman in Brissy cottoned on to what a good catch you are. All the best of luck to you.

I hope she's cool with your "chick" friends and you guys still can come up and visit me for a day trip . . .

Good luck in NZ with the work thingo - they have some awesome restaurants and day trips if your free on the weekends.

Loved Milford Sound (divine - def. recommend a cruise up the Fjord - amazing - waterfalls that water soak the boat, dolphins, seals and penguins). Also loved the Fox Glacia. And in the towns there are museums with so much wonderful history on the Maoris - especially like their tatoos and Jade. You know you can't buy Jade for yourself - it must always be given as a gift.

Maybe your lady could send the kids to her folks and fly over for a weekend (if cheap flights)?? Gotta love spontaneity!!

Okay catch you later.

Luv Glitter xo

Posted by: glitteringblue at November 12, 2009 6:15 PM

Hi Alove, unfortunately the trip to NZ is for work and I think it'll be pretty full on work wise so not much play time is expected.

I'll drop by from time to time to see what's happening here in blogland.

Adios amigos.

Icy

Posted by: icycle67 at November 11, 2009 9:45 PM

Hope it all goes amazingly Icy,
Good Luck

Posted by: amberlightrose at November 11, 2009 9:35 PM

Hey icy

Mate i'm stoked for you..!:)
I've been busy myself so haven't been around much lately but popped in to wish you well. Really hope things work out for you..

PS:You do know we'll need a report around a months time!!!!

Have a good one :)))

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at November 11, 2009 7:17 PM

Hey Icy

Glad to hear the 100th was great, great news that RSVP has been good for you, we do of course expect that you come back now and again and let us know how it all is (as per Virgo and Mr Spesh). Have a great holiday in NZ! Alove

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 11, 2009 6:57 PM

Hey Maybe, You don't need any makeovers, you just need a decent pic. You have fabulous eyes and a great face, but not staring full time into a camera lens. Maybe have a pic of you doing something looking at something else. I don't know, I take an awful pic also.

You don't need to change anything to suit another person, you look great, albeit a little scary in that pic, but that will be okay now.

You obviously also have a great sense of humour which has to be a massive plus in your favour. You would be surprised how many people just don't have any sense of humour at all. dreary dreary people.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 11, 2009 5:35 PM

Hi Folks.

Been off blog a while. Too busy with life. So here's a quick update.

My Gran's 100th - a great weekend was had catching up with family.

Work has been busy.....and off to New Zealand for 2 weeks as of next week.

A first date from about a month ago has progressed very nicely. I sent the kiss but I found out that she had me saved as a favourite.......definite chemistry happening....all very exciting. As such, I'm dropping the profile back to inactive. :-) Yay.

And finally, 2 weeks away right now is going to be really hard when I just want to be here.

So, for everyone waiting to find someone, hang in there. You never know what's going to happen just around the corner.

Adieu. Icy.

Posted by: icycle67 at November 11, 2009 4:44 PM

LMAO Perthy.... psycho gnome.. hmmmm but omg u have me laughing.. ok photo gone.. will put new one up after body revamp! I had photos up of me doing various things but a male friend said the Halloween one looked scary, the kayaking one I looked butch, the Melb Cup one I looked drunk... guess I dont' take a good pic arrrrr

Ahhh sweetenuf... I think the latter, and I"m with you xo

Ok back to the books for psycho gnome hehehe oh that's made my day xo

Still no Virgo??????? Must have been some date ;)

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 11, 2009 11:45 AM

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 9, 2009 8:31 PM

Sounds ok to me maybe..in the beginning i kissed quite a lot..probably got a positive response from maybe 1 in 10?? So i would easily have had more than a 100 in my time.

Dont kiss many these days...not sure if thats a reflection of being selective or disillusioned :)

Posted by: sweetenuff67 at November 11, 2009 10:34 AM

Hey Maybe, You sound like a terrific person, active and knowledgeable and a ton of fun but your photo is awful !! Get rid of it......Now. You sort of look like a psycho gnome about to pounce intent on chewing your victims eyes out ! Well not quite but really get rid of that pic, it is not good.

Your face is getting scrunched up when you push your arms forward like that and it sort of looks threatening. Pic has to go my friend as it is obvious you don't look like that at all and I am sure you are not a psycho gnome.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 11, 2009 9:21 AM

What !!! a hundred knockbacks. What are you doing, that can't be right.

There are heaps of nice guys around. Who are you sending these things to. What are you doing, I have to know.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 11, 2009 12:02 AM

Maybe, I now pronounce you "RSVP's champion kisser", 100 - lordy girl! Must be getting closer to the real deal.

What rain??? A shower here and there, bring down the real stuff!!!

Oh, we were having NYE under the Eiffel Tower but I'm not that fond of 30,000 people crammed together, found the cruise where we can see all the fireworks from everywhere and all the buildings lit up. 6 weeks from tomorrow........

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 9, 2009 11:39 PM

Thanks Alov.

Wow NYE on the Seine... jealousy has turned greeeeeen!

I've just clocked up (over the past year and a bit) my 100th Thanks but no thanks to kisses I've sent out........ I think that deserves some kind of award!!! and revision of myself!!

LOVING the Brissy rain xo

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 9, 2009 8:31 PM

Blog Idea is under Customer Support! Wah lah!!

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 9, 2009 6:43 PM

Got a message from Virgo this morning! She's well, I'm sure she'll be back soon to tell you all the goss, my lips are sealed!

Her daughter's wedding was yesterday and Mr Spesh flew into Melbourne in the early hours this morning.

Maybe, I think I should have said smack bang in the middle of everything we want to do this trip! Oh and we're doing the Seine cruise on New Years Eve!

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 9, 2009 6:42 PM

Can someone point me to the 'blog idea' thread... can't seem to find it.... kinda like my dating skills at the moment ;)

Can't wait to hear all about your Parisian Adventures Alove...

Waiting to hear from Virgo... has she surfaced yet? Or is the Sat night date stilllll going ;)

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 9, 2009 1:37 PM

Central heating in Europe doesn't always mean it's warm! especially Paris. Some of the hotels there are absolutely beautiful with a rich history but b..... freezing in the winter. Their idea of warm is a little different to ours at times.

I have been munching on dark chocolate covered coffee beans. Seriously yuuuuuuummmmmmm!

Posted by: iaminperth at November 8, 2009 11:10 PM

oh Alove there is no central Paris.. it's allll spread out over miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles....... designed to help work off those pastries, breads, cheeses, wines, champagnes... hmm maybe I should just come with and act as your guide.

A definite must is a cruise down the River Seine on sunset... pure magic.

Oh I could rabbit on for hours... LOVED Paris. I was really fortunate to visie Reims too and the Veuve Clicquot winery..... ahhh the memories........

Have a great week all, exams here for me :(

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 8, 2009 10:04 PM

I had a lovely time in Paris over an april weekend in 2000. but the most amazing thing was, while walking along between the Louvre towards place de la Concorde, I saw across the walk ways a woman I recognised! We waved at each other incredulous!! There was someone who along with myself was part of our High School P & C !! LOL! She was just over from London for the weekend, being with her husband and sons for a short time and I was on holiday, both of us away from Canberra . The world is shrinking, so where ever you happen to be.. don't discount seeing someone you know :)

Posted by: aquamanda56 at November 8, 2009 9:49 PM

OMG!! Laduree on rue Royale is in the 8th arrondissement - I'm staying in 7th - a bit too close for comfort!! Just as well we are doing a lot of walking, just about smack bang in the middle of Paris, only 1klm to the Eiffel Tower et al. Paris Breakfasts newsletters have been full of macaroons of late as well as the chocolate fairs...before I go I hope to see the wine newsletters then I'm all set!!

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 8, 2009 5:51 PM

Whatever you do, don't forget to visit Laduree on rue Royale. Heaven on a stick! I had half a box of their macaroons for breakfast one morning, much to my (health nut) then-husband's horror :-)

Posted by: aphelion68 at November 8, 2009 4:29 PM

I have been enjoying the blogs and weekly emails of The Daily Connoisseur and Paris Breakfasts, the first one gives you the best of living your best life and she's spent a lot of time in France however Paris Breakfasts would do in anyone's diet. Have a squiz!

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 8, 2009 3:54 PM

Oh Perth you make me laugh, you are such a foodie, it's sounding like you have food envy!! You have been very good with your healthy eating for too long. I will have a macaroon for you! Sadly I'm a decaf girl, I'm sensitive to caffeine so will have to just enjoy the aroma of the coffee.

Yes layering is the way to go in Paris, everywhere has central heating so I do have thermal vests, some lightweight wool jumpers, jeans, my boots, coat and pashmina's that I can wear around my neck, I also have my red leather gloves!

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 8, 2009 3:52 PM

Rather than lots of jumpers, a couple of pure wool with a couple of really good scarves. and some thermal undies. They're nice and warm and not half as bulky, then if you get too hot you can take off your coat. shove the thermal in your bag, drape the coat casually across your arm and let the scarf do whatever it has to do. If you go into your restaurant, coat and bag go on the seat and scarf happily drapes over the top. voila all done, looking gorgeous girl !!!!! Be prepared like a boy scout, or a girl guide maybe.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 7, 2009 9:37 PM

mmm 7 deg. in Paris. Woollen coat, woollen jumper and a scarf. Sometimes the scarf to pull up near your face if it gets windy or drape over your head if it becomes a bit drizzly, Get some gloves as well, as your hands will get cold. Woollen ones if possible, just plain. Get really smart with your scarf, get a good one, it's amazing what you can do with it. Rather than doing a really good impersonation of Humphrey
Bear walking around rugged up like mad, a woollen jumper and a good scarf is the go. Don't forget the gloves, very tres chic. Wonderful hot coffee and pastries helps also. I don't mind the cofee in Paris, they actually serve it hot and strong, much better than here once you get used to it. Bit like the wines, a bit tart to start off with but when you get used to them. Then of course, there are the beautiful chocolates from Switzerland, available just about everywhere and the amazing little truffles. And then the beautiful boiled lollies with the soft centres that are pretty yum to munch on, and of course, there are the cakes, the cakes and more cakes. Oh well. Maybe walk instead of catching public transport and cabs and don't engage the street fighters. They are serious. Nice people, great fun, but they are serious. Oh, forgot the cheeses, especially the goat cheeses from the mountains and those little crackly biscuit things they serve with them and maybe a drop of two, or twenty two of red. Maybe with the strawberries dipped in rich chocolate which alway taste better in cold countries. Oh dear, keep walking and just have a ball, lots of fun.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 7, 2009 9:30 PM

Hey Maybe, I haven't been before but will be staying in the heart of Paris, I've bought some great flattish leather boots as the weather gets to a top of 7 during the day, lots of jumpers and a good coat required!

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 7, 2009 2:40 PM

Alove.. Paree... I'm sooo jealous. What a gorgeous place to visit... have you been before? If not, my tip is take good walking shoes!!!

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 7, 2009 10:42 AM

Ta Ali, 2 glasses of red tonight, quick read of the blogs and then an early night. Very quiet weekends now for the next 6, getting so close now to Paris, have a lovely weekend all, Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 6, 2009 11:02 PM

Special kiss right back to you lovely Virgo, all the way to the moon, all around the stars and into the milky way, be happy Honey, Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 6, 2009 11:00 PM

All our fingers and toes will be crossed for you lovely Virgo.
Have a brilliant day!
@-}--}-------
xo

Posted by: ali1974 at November 6, 2009 8:17 PM

Hi Kurli
*mwah*, not a prob, just got a little confused and didn't know what I'd done...ah well all good.

Alove, time for a drink...it's friday night. good luck with the match making :-)

Ali
xo

Posted by: ali1974 at November 6, 2009 8:14 PM

oooooooo Kurli.. give us goss .....

Virgo.... can't wait for the full report on both the wedding and the date. Go blue.. it'll bring out ur gorgeous eyes.

So Icy, how'd the reunion go? Nan get her letter from the Queen?

Loving the cooler weather here in Brissy today.

I'm being 'looked after'... sat down to get into some study and parcel lady arrived and dropped off a box of V energy shots!!!

Have great weekend all xo

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 6, 2009 11:06 AM

Blue!
I hope it goes wonderfully. Have a lovely time and take the time to enjoy it. On the day, there's no point worrying anymore. Have fun and I hope Jodie does too.
love Tx

Posted by: willow29 at November 6, 2009 10:56 AM

alove----
We NEED to get sweet Virgo "organised" first!
miz Kurli isn't doing too badly (smiles to herself)

Posted by: kurli at November 6, 2009 5:43 AM

Thanks you beautiful friends...

I've got two dresses Perth, one is black, and the other colbalt blue...Jodie has given her approval to both, so I'm not sure which one at this stage....!!

I know every mum thinks their daughter looks absolutely stunning on their Wedding Day...but Jodie truly looks like a Princess Bride....I'm so proud of her...!

After the reception, I'm going to the airport to meet Mr. Spesh when he flies in...we're going to spend a few days together...so I'll probably be a bit quiet on here....keep your fingers crossed for me guys..:))))

Love Virgo...xoxo

Special kiss to my Alove...xoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 5, 2009 11:21 PM

Best wishes Virgo. I hope the wedding, reception and your date go brilliantly.

Cheers

Icy

Posted by: icycle67 at November 5, 2009 9:36 PM

Virgo, I have to ask what you are wearing or the 'big' day? What colour is your outfit.
And more importantly, where are you going after the reception ? Come clean now, we want all the goss.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 5, 2009 9:35 PM

FG, keep your fingers and everything crossed for your Mum, if we don't hear from her for a little while shall we send out a search party or look for the lovely blonde with a big grin on her face?? Aunty Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 5, 2009 8:25 PM

My darling friend Virgo, enjoy the wedding and your girls night on Saturday nite, hope you've got enough champers ;-) Moet, Yellow, et al......... as for the rest you know what I think Lovely, you don't need luck, you are wonderful and he's just going to love you!

Miss Swish Kurli, you're next - Maybe!!! Where is that matchmaker!!

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 5, 2009 8:23 PM

Hey Lizzie,

I really hope this guy is what you want....you are a very special person; and deserve the ultimate in happiness. You be yourself, and luck wont be a consideration:)))

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at November 5, 2009 5:30 PM

ooooooooo Virgo... u can't leave us hanging like that.. details of that 'special someone'?????????? Come on let us lovelorn live vicariously ;)

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 5, 2009 5:26 PM

Mum, haven't you had enough champagne already..!!!!! forgiven this time cause it's a very special night for you both:)))

wish you luck...!

love ya:)!

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at November 5, 2009 1:15 PM

Apologies Ali1974..I actually meant someone else.

Virgo: may Jodie's big day and your date be perfect for both of you.

Alove..if Maybe's step dad has any sense he'll head for the hills!

Posted by: kurli at November 5, 2009 12:31 PM

Alove....

Yep, the final countdown is well and truly on, I'm spending the night before the wedding with Jodie, we'll have a couple of glasses of spesh champagne that I have been saving for this night...then the big day...!!

It's going to be a fantastic day for me in more ways than one...after the reception, I'm meeting a very special person, that has bought a smile to my face...wish me luck...!

Love Virgo...xoxoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 5, 2009 9:59 AM

Woops, Ali - I wanted to be involved with the matchmaking of Kurli and your step-dad but it was Maybe's step-dad. Hadn't even had a drink!! Sorry Lovelies.

Sooooo, 2nd try - Maybe you little matchmaker, let me know how it goes, maybe we could chaperone them to the theatre!! Our Kurli does look a bit swish in her photos! ;-)

Virgo, big count down on now for the wedding, I can't wait to see the photos, I hope you have a ball, it's going to be a fantastic weekend for you - your family is expanding further. Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 4, 2009 11:19 PM

Thanks aquamanda56 :)

there goes my chances with your daughter then...... we would fight like brother and sister!!

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at November 4, 2009 8:54 PM

Maybe
Like you I had a great day......only trouble is my friends have banned me from next year's Sweepstake VBG.....I had tickets for the winner AND second place! lol

Posted by: kurli at November 4, 2009 7:50 PM

Hi All,

Not dead yet....just seems like it is all.

My Melbourne Cup day was a blast....mates place for dinner with him and his wife on Monday, 9am Tuesday....first drinks....backed a "special"....saw him being overtaken in the straight by a little old lady with a walking frame....I expect he will be a can of Pal next week:)))

Walked out of the club...and into a heat-wall....37C, and humid....train into Sydney, meet some mates in the pub for a "few", ran into a couple of people I haven't seen in 3 years......and got home at 6am this morning....have to love the quite life as a senior citizen!!!:))

Anyway, reading the blogs on relationships and gotta say, I dont get it that any topic of conversation with your date is off the cards. I like women to tell me their story...anything they want.....its actually a part of who they are and how they got there. Same with "what we want"....when you meet that someone special, there are no barriers to you for that person...age, habits, etc among other things, is irrelevant...inner beauty outshines everything.

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at November 4, 2009 7:16 PM

kurli, I'm confused...I don't understand your reference to me?

Posted by: ali1974 at November 4, 2009 6:44 PM

Thanks Virgo, Melvin is a Birman...sacred cat of Burma...I think plays the part ;)

FG....nice profile, you look remarkably like my son.my daughter made a fascinating fascinator to go to her Cup festivities......looking forward to the pics of her all "frocked" up at the races!

Posted by: aquamanda56 at November 4, 2009 5:55 PM

Kurli.. it's a date when my exams are over.

How was everyone's Melbourne Cup? Mine was brilllllllllliant.. not a win all day but boy did I have fun.. haven't laughed or chatted that long or hard in a long time. Fun, Friends and Fascinators... (And hollywood tape!).. fantastic!!!

How was yours?

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 3, 2009 11:48 PM

Great posts Isidore and fantastic attitude, good luck for future dates!

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 3, 2009 9:03 PM

Hi Folks

Thanks for all the feedback guys...I guess i'm just trying to put a few ideas out there as respectfully and as honestly as I can. Its a challenge sometimes.....

And the 120 too old for me comment? I leave that there as a reminder to myself to not get too caught up in age ;)

Oh and as for my comments about older partners? Coincidentally I had a date from RSVP with a woman 'a few' years older than me just a few hours ago...suffice it to say I found her full of life, very attractive and someone i'd like to see again......she was one of those people I spoke about...the kind of person infused with life.

...now whether she wants to see me again is another thing altogether of course! ;)

Not to worry Isidore...where theres life theres 'Hope' ;)

Posted by: isidore at November 3, 2009 8:10 PM

Welcome back Aliane. I knew you couldnt resist us ;)

Posted by: willow29 at November 3, 2009 4:31 PM

Does not true Woodnwine, not all women are stuck in 80's if you meet me you may change your views towards women's, I'm the living proof of 2009 a model of current millennium era !
Aliane

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 3, 2009 2:11 PM

Hi Aqua....

I love Melvin...what an exquisite looking cat..:)

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 3, 2009 1:41 PM

Hey Isidore....

I just noticed on your profile, that the preferred age range of your ideal partner extends to 120....judging by what I've read about you, I think that may be just a tad too old for you...:))))

Virgo...:)

Have a great Melbourne Cup Day everyone...xoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 3, 2009 12:46 PM

Well said isidore.
I also meet women my age but although most are very nice people they are rarely current with fashion, music, attitudes etc. Many are stuck in the 80s for some reason.

Posted by: woodnwine at November 3, 2009 11:22 AM

where is Oney...??
I miss her opinions....if anyone sees her pass on a 'hi' from me...

Posted by: ali1974 at November 3, 2009 10:00 AM

Interesting post Isadore. I think for some people it is quite confronting to look at themselves...I mean Really look hard at themselves... many choose to ignore what they see.

On a lighter note...It is a beautiful day ! I've been for a walk early this morning, fed the swan family at the lake...those baby swans have grown so much in the last 2 months, they are now getting their feathers and look all scruffy and gawky but still make baby peeping noises.

Now I must do a little bit of work before the fun of the Cup....have a fantastic and lucky day everyone :)

Posted by: aquamanda56 at November 3, 2009 9:11 AM

Isadore I tried blogging to commend you on your post re relationship being a privilege...

Your more recent post shows even more depth of understanding,You and FG will certainly help both the gals and the guys with your great perspective on Life and relationships.
Please keep posting.!

Maybe: .is that WHY you keep checking me out...for your step dad!! (Matchmakers Inc.) hehe.
Good luck with your exams....we'll have that coffee when they're over.

Me! Swish!Alove....shorts & tees are my preferred option but this ol' lady thanks you for your kindness .

Ali/Cattleya :be like me, and drift in & out as the spirit takes you.....just try not to be hurtful...there is more than enough of that in the world without you & I adding to it.

Have a good day everyone.I need complete my chapeau for today's Breast cancer Fund raiser lunch.
Ciao everyone!

Posted by: kurli at November 3, 2009 8:18 AM

Isidore... I have to congratulate you again on a great post. You are absolutely spot on, again! I married someone 7 years younger than myself and now... 20 years on... he looks older than me!! It is all about attitude and taking care of yourself. My ex has 'let himself go' and looks much older than he should!

Posted by: karen59 at November 3, 2009 1:00 AM

Isodore.. so very very very true, and hence my own journey of self discovery and 'renovations' this year.

16 more sleeps til exams are over.. four more to go..... and then it' is partayyyyy time.. well as partyish as I get.. which means having some fun, letting my hair down, dating and enjoying life and catching up on all the little things I've missed out on the past few months.. namely my 'green baby' out on the open waters!! And a social life and ..... oh the list is endless...... I LURVE SUMMER!

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 2, 2009 11:00 PM

It's so true Isadore. I think age, more than any other time in history is just a number. I can't believe how people so much younger than me behave. They are just wishing their lives away. I wish it was Friday, I wish I didn't have to work, I wish I didn't have a headache, I wish my bones didn't ache. Well, they probably wouldn't if you got up off your butt and did something with your life. I just can't believe how lazy some people are today and guys around my age are usually a disaster. Same with some women. I work with all ages, and some are a 100 years old before they even begin. And talk about obesity. Oh my knees, my back and everything else, well yes, that happens when you are huge and the joints don't cope. What is wrong with people nowadays, why don't they get off their butts and get a life. Doesn't matter whether it's on your own or not, it's a life and if you make that a good life, then chances are you will attract someone nice.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 2, 2009 10:32 PM

Isidore..your post was good to read...certainly food for thought...thank you for sharing.

FG i think you generalise by saying "most men" or perhaps you are right and "most of those men" are not here on rsvp...the gems are few and far between...and i dont mean that in a sarcastic resentful way...just based on my experience.

But it's the gems that keep the ladies on here :)

Posted by: sweetenuff67 at November 2, 2009 10:32 PM

Hiya Virgo.... i suspect you are grinning just a little at the thought of your daughter not remembering her hens night? You wouldnt have had anything to do with that i'm sure!

Glad you had a great night... i wonder if the town has recovered...*scratching head, ponders slightly:)... All the best for the wedding weekend, you will make a spectacular monther of the bride :)

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at November 2, 2009 10:29 PM

Isidore...

Compliments to you on the way you write, and how you express your thoughts with such consideration for others...:)

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 2, 2009 10:24 PM

Where is Oney by the way.....whatcha doing my extenshun girlfriend....:))))

Luv Virgo...xoxoxo

P.S. I had a lychee martini the other night...yummo....!!!

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 2, 2009 10:20 PM

Awww, come on Happy, You know you are not going to run away forever. Just blog as yourself, who you are, whoever you are. You sound like a great fun person and you could give yourself a strange name, just don't keep changing the darned thing. We'[re happy for you to be Happy and keep blogging, you are a lot of fun.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 2, 2009 10:13 PM

and Isidore I can hear the kitchen draw open at Oney's house reaching in for the carving knife...!!

:)

Posted by: feelgood76 at November 2, 2009 10:10 PM

isidore good post dude!

thats how i see it too. I have dated older woman 7 years older and woman 8 years yonger but have found i like chicks my own age. (Give and take a few either side) I will admit that i'm not as in shape as i was say 5 years ago but i do still keep active and would like a partner that shared my interest.

I've been with some really pretty girls but on the inside dead as a rusty nail on a shithouse door!

My point; what most men really want is inner beauty.

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at November 2, 2009 10:04 PM

I agree with Belle. Isidore, that was an inspiring post.

Posted by: willow29 at November 2, 2009 9:52 PM

You are on a roll Isidore , thankyou for your posts - You have given me something to think about :)

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at November 2, 2009 9:36 PM

Bye Bye for now then Kick :)

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at November 2, 2009 9:33 PM

Ali you little matchmaker, let me know how it goes, maybe we could chaperone them to the theatre!! Our Kurli does look a bit swish in her photos! ;-)

Virgo, you forgot to mention the dodgy ear, the parted hair - don't worry Aunty Alove will babysit happily!!! I won't teach her any rude words - yet........ ;-)

Aliane, all we can wish for in life is to be happy, and I do wish you happiness. Just be you...and be happy. x

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 2, 2009 9:29 PM

Hi Folks

Many of us often seem to get a little..and a lot.. caught up on 'age'.
Seems the guys are getting paid out on a little here.....i'm quite sure 'some' of it may be justified ;)

I think its too simplistic to generalise as we are all such complicated creatures...

But heres my take;
It does often get down to 'values' and chemistry and energy.

I have had a long term relationship with a woman 16 years older (so ladies i'm qualified to walk the talk ok;) than me....some years ago i might add. I was 30 and in pretty good nic if I must say so myself ;)....but then so was she!
The relationship lasted a number of years. We are still good friends. She meant the world to me.
If you'd said that i'd go out with a woman that much older than myself before then I would have laughed!

But I did. She was wonderful.

But...its not quite that simple.

Now im mid 40's and although I am much much more open to age possibilities these days I do find a great percentage of women in my age bracket are much, much older in 'attitude' and outlook (note not necessarily 'maturity'...although i'm sure that could be debated) and many just do not look after themselves 'anymore'..or ever did...like for example...someone like myself does.

Now that doesnt mean i'm out and about looking for young girls...thats not my scene. I don't deliberately set out to attract or seek an 'age group'

It does mean though that although I meet some really interesting women on RSVP, I find many of them, with all due respect, 'old'...some appear a little worn down by life, some look more like my mother and dress like my grandmother! (no chemistry possible there..and no Tasmanian jokes please;) and so many are just so 'serious' and ..well...not anywhere where I am 'at'...wherever that is!

My point?

I think 'some' women forget about what a lot of men (and women too!) really want. Sure some want eternal 21 year olds. Lets not count those guys huh?

'For me' I want someone 'alive' someone who gives a damn about their body and mind and spirit.
If thats 30 so be it. If its 45 so be it.

Its not about age. Its attitude. Its values. Its lifestyle. Its passion.

I find a lot of us sit back and criticise others for their relationship choices.

If you are in your 40's (or whatever age) and wondering why guys or gals are passing you up, or you are not attracting the partner you want....

Take a good look at yourself. Are you interesting? Are you active in mind/body/spirit? Do you send out an energy thats passionate about life...or one that is critical and resentful and complaining?

Theres no easy answers here. But many of us in the 40's are great on excuses.

Oh...and that woman I was talking about? What exactly did attract me to her?
She was independent, attractive, ageless in mind and she captivated me.... with her passion and zest for life and her horses.

Many of us lose that....so many of us get real old real quick and wonder why we aren't 'on the menu' or on the radars of those in our age brackets.

The advent of the 'cougar' is seeing the same thing.
I see a lot of profiles wanting younger guys...alas i'm not in the frame..too old for them ha ha!

What does a woman do who is mid 40's (or any age for that matter) who looks after herself, is healthy, clean and passionate about life do?
I'm guessing she doesnt look out for that slob of a 'bloke' who has a beer gut, bad teeth and no energy who is in her age bracket!

Age does come into the equation most of the time...but not always.

There are always exceptions.

But i'll say it again, take a look at yourself. What/who is it you want to attract and would they be interested in you?

Posted by: isidore at November 2, 2009 9:02 PM

Alove.....

Poopy wasn't given the roll as flower-baby....think it might have had something to do with her weight gain (chicken drumstick legs)...her swivelling head...not to mention she's still hissing...and now she rocks back and forward....she's starting to sound like a dodgey grand daughter isn't she....but I personally think she would have made a beautiful flower-baby....:))))))

Luv Virgo...xoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 2, 2009 8:58 PM

C'mon Cattle, you dont want to go anymore than we want you to, except of course you leave for very happy reasons.

I was annoyed with you because I felt you crossed the line. You know Ive never had a cross word to say to you, or to anyone else.

Most of us enjoy the diversity of your postings.

Posted by: willow29 at November 2, 2009 8:34 PM

Aliane....

Look after yourself.....good luck...!

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 2, 2009 8:34 PM

Aliane is Happy!, Surely she'll shield more happiness if talked to male colleague and ignore the rest. She'll thinking of that.

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 2, 2009 8:23 PM

Hey Virgo, greta to read the hen's went off, have a brilliant time at the wedding!!!
Ali
xoxo

Posted by: ali1974 at November 2, 2009 8:16 PM

Aphelion, sounds like a great afternoon! Save yourself on the cryptics, otherwise you'll do your own head in!
Maybe, how many more exams to go?

Posted by: ali1974 at November 2, 2009 8:12 PM

Hey OrdinaryFellow, agree with Karen in that these people are all about blaming someone else for their own misfortune. Consider it a 'red flag' which the family here has been teaching me about and RUN!!!
If they're like that on the first date, imagine what you'll be hearing by the 4th....? eeesh!

Posted by: ali1974 at November 2, 2009 8:10 PM

Kurli, I like your profile and your recent October photo is just gorgeous. I see your postcode is identical to mine. We should catch up for a coffee when my exams are over. My step dad is coming for a visit in mid December.. he's 67 and single..........

:) xo

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 2, 2009 7:54 PM

You are a good nephew FG, just be kind to your Mum she had a big weekend! Had my dummy spit - over it!!

Virgo, you wild woman, sounds like a great time, next weekend will be fantastic. I can't wait to see the photos, is Poopy a flowerbaby?

Ali, I laughed myself hoarse over both Busting Out and Puppetry, I do look forward to seeing the Vagina Monologues, will watch out for it. The Crucible - Granny, may I call you that you lovely inspiration? I haven't seen it, but yes I would be up for a bloggers theatre group, also like going to Palace Centro for pretty decent movies. Must wait until after New Year though as all my pennies are going into this fast approaching trip.

Good luck all for Melbourne Cup if you are making a little bet or in a sweep, I have a work lunch which will be nice! Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at November 2, 2009 6:29 PM

Isidore....

So well said...it is a privilege, not a right..and should be treated with respect....!

Perth....

Isn't it great the way young girls can handle themselves so well...!

Willow....

6 days to go before the Big Day....I'm already getting emotional when I'm with Jodie....!

Maybe....

Have a great day at the Trots, and I hope your dress looks...ooh la la.....!

Luv Virgo...xoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 2, 2009 6:22 PM

Willow... auf wiedersehen
Perth... arrivederci
Belle.... adios
FG... Sayonara
Aphelion.... paalam
and others... goodbye

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 2, 2009 6:20 PM

Hi Perthy

I really don't know why older blokes think they are going to attract such younger good looking woman..? I see it happen quite often and ask them later when they get knocked back... "when you were 20 did you go up to 45 year olds and 'hit' on them"

No they say.., I then tell them, Well,, what did you expect...

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at November 2, 2009 4:28 PM

LOL, they know how to handle themselves nowadays, Perth. I can imagine the giggling afterwards!

Posted by: willow29 at November 2, 2009 4:03 PM

Well said ISIDORE... I agree totally.

Kurli that's a great idea :) I LOVE the theatre.

Ahhh Perthy... hilarious... love it.. good to know your daughter can put the perverts in their place.

Aphelion... being happy with who you are and where you are (relationship wise) brings the balance that keeps a smile on our dials I believe. Can't wait til exams are over and I can get outside again.. first the green baby.. my kayak gets a workout, then the hiking boots.. .. mental note, check for spiders!!

what an absolutely glorious day here in Brissy. What's everyone doing for the big race tomorrow?

Me, I'm getting all frocked up and hitting the local Trots who have live racing before the big televised event.... rather looking forward to a day off to just 'play' in my prerrrty little outfit!!!

Whatever you're doing, have fun.

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at November 2, 2009 3:39 PM

It IS all very cryptic. Cattle, why don't you just spit it out and put us out of our misery?

Aphelion, sounds like a lovely hike. Nice to take time and smell the eucalypts :)

Isadore, I agree completely, a relationship is not a 'right". Nice post.

Virgo, looks as if you all had a blast :) I bet you're as excited about the wedding as she is!

Posted by: willow29 at November 2, 2009 12:04 PM

One of the other girls, a blue eyed natural platinum blonde and one of the prettiest girls I have ever seen quite often gets 'hit on' as she puts it by 'old wrinklies', meaning anything 45 onwards!!!!

Anyway, they ask her if anyone has ever told her she is the most beautiful girl they have ever seen. Her reply is, of course they have, it's pretty obvious isn't it!

If that doesn't get rid of them she then says, she knows she is absolutely stunning so why would she be interested in a wrinkled old fart like them.

All this with a straight face and looking straight in the eyes. Of course, then there has to be the mad giggling session afterwards, the runny eyes and the racing off the loo. These private school girls are a worry at times, lol.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 2, 2009 11:58 AM

I have to tell you a funny story. My daughter went to a halloween party with her friend she has known since junior school. They hang out together quite often. This was at her friends workplace.

Towards the end of the evening his boss came up and asked her out. She declined and said no thank you. He persisted and pointed to his car parked outside, describing it as a great set of wheels. She pointed outside also to show him her great set of wheels outside, with her mum driving it, ha ha!!! I was picking them up afterwards and they jumped in the car and waved madly as we drove away.

This guy is 48 years old and my daughter is 19. I had intructions 'go go go mum' so we sped away and then the two of them laughed themselves silly all the way home.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 2, 2009 11:52 AM

Hey, but Aliane is Happy and Happy is a very naughty boy and sometimes that boy goes a little too far but all is forgiven. There were never any hard feelings. This is a blog, it's not personal for me at all.

Posted by: iaminperth at November 2, 2009 11:45 AM

Great post Isidore! :)

Posted by: karen59 at November 2, 2009 10:51 AM

Ordinary guy... it is not just women who bitch about the ex... trust me, I have had to sit through the same! For me, it is an absolute turn off... means they have learnt very little from the experience and have not recognized the part they have played in the relationship downfall. I just say.. 'NEXT!' Part of the whole dating game unfortunately!

Posted by: karen59 at November 2, 2009 10:50 AM

Hi all, Aphelion checking in. Sounds like you have all been busily working on cryptic crosswords - wtf indeed!

I've just had the loveliest day - got up very early this morning and went for a hike through the hills, about 8km. It occurred to me that I was actually having a very good time doing it as a single person - no rush, no pressure, no weirdly competitive behaviour. It was wonderful! It will be nice to one day have company again for this sort of thing but right now it's also nice to be having a breather.

Hope you've all had a lovely weekend!

:))

Posted by: aphelion68 at November 1, 2009 8:58 PM

Hi Folks

Thought i'd add a little bit here....as obvious as it may be ;)

One of the keys to the topic here 'for me' is that we 'all' should remember that a relationship with another person (as opposed to with yourself) is not a 'right'..

It is a 'privilege' to be in 'relationship' with someone else.

Too many of us put expectations (and they are often unsaid) on others to conform to our standards/timelines/values and demands regarding relationships.

Things change as we all know. Whats deemed 'casual' one day evolves...or devolves, depending on where you stand ;) to one partner wanting more...or less.

Relationships are rarely static..particularly 'casual' ones.

Thats the nature of a casual relationship.....its 'casual'...often but not always its because usually one, sometimes both, parties are not that much into each other to 'commit' to dare I say it..(the functional traditionalists will love this) a 'real' relationship ;)

The more I go through life the more I realise that anything and everything goes....pragmatically speaking its anything that works for you.

And hey, why not? Life is changing. People change. Often we are not mature enough, 'secure' enough, aware enough to identify 'patterns' of behaviour or relationships and continue to make the same mistakes with the same 'models' of relationships.

I know most of us on some level hope for 'Mr/Miss Right.

The 'facts' are we only ever have 'Right now' partners.

As evidenced by the fact that we are all here! ;)

So find what works I say and hopefully you find someone who works with you...no matter how long or short the relationship is.

As I say, its a 'privilege' to be in a relationship...not a right.

Imagine if most people remembered that?

Perhaps we might have something resembling a little more functionality in our world?

Yep we'd still get people breaking up, making up etc etc...but the energy/attitude behind it would be one of respect...not ownership.

Posted by: isidore at November 1, 2009 7:11 PM

Perth, I'm not trying to wind you. Kick is not he, it's aliane, it's me, game is over for me. No hard feelings still I admired your insightful post and your honesty. Thanks for being nice to me here, sometimes you stung me but it's ok! thou are dear to me (i meant it really God Knows from the bottom of my heart) ...

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 1, 2009 3:27 PM

Thanks FG, Thanks for the kiss -in, Yes I'm Kicknpick,. I'm just teasing you.

-------------------
Maybe & Ali....don't be confused have you heard the song "Battlefield" that was it. Read carefully the bloggers post, you will get the answers because of their guilt !...
Very deceiving really, Read Archived will help ! Also I haven't heard of Virgo for a while..perhaps she's confused too. Hi Virgo have you been accused being a "Wild Mum" ( independent successful blog) well you know the answers now. Miss your post !.

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 1, 2009 3:17 PM

Alove 4.59pm, Saturday:

Whilst you were blogging yesterday,I was enjoying "The Crucible" at QPAC Playhouse.
If you haven't seen it this time around,and you like GREAT theatre,go see it.
\Maybe we Brizzy people should organise a trip to the theatre sometime as a group activity......???

Posted by: kurli at November 1, 2009 1:08 PM

Hey Belle....

Went out on Jodie's (daughter) Hen's Night last night....Kazbah in South Yarra for a beautiful dinner....then a stretch Hummer picked us up...we were cruising around the City with sound system pumped up...drinking copious amounts of champagne, and having an absolute ball..then it was more drinks and dancing at a local nightspot....!!!

Jodie had a great time...don't know whether she'll remember most of it...but we have the pics to show her what we got up to...!!!

Now the countdown is on for the big day...woo hoo...!!!!

Luv Virgo...xoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at November 1, 2009 9:06 AM

Happy Halloween's to everyone !
Beware of spooky blogs.
Trust me on this.

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 1, 2009 5:04 AM

Kurli,... me puppet-meister? just to upset members ? Wrong they upset me. Careful of accusation it not nice ! My profile is up to let all know I'm no longer hiding myself. I blog long time ago before you came here although I must admit changed my blog name often due to one woman jealousy. Before you accused me why wont you read the archive then judged someone like me. If my profile is fake why not contact RSVP management to verify my authenticity. I want to be honest now... My previous name's Aliane, A-Z, many more, yep I'm Kick. and I'm real, I met one Bloggers name is Riversong! in Melbourne. Read the archive of her announcement!
Let me tell you, Someone revealed my name in the blog ( Secret Revelation Blog.) did I complained NO! I just ignored it. I mentioned the name in guessing to make sure he is that person. Bingo! I found it.
A woman who used different profile just to spy someone whose the ex -lover next affairs. She so friendly just to gather the information. I'm one of her victims. Her friendliness is deceiving sharing lovely emails, very outspoken, she would tell - she'll bring a largest bouquet of Flowers when you meet her, ect. ect.
but her intention is to spy her ex -lover whereabouts any information she can collect from them. ( read pray before making love blog would give you some idea !). So don't assumed all of us here are real. Very upsetting your comments indeed on CO2 ! don't you have a sense of humour lady? hey play nice and say nice thing !

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at November 1, 2009 4:24 AM

A question for you guys out there as you all seem a lot more experienced at dating than me. I have only been actively dating for the last 12 months after separating almost two years ago.

Why do my dates have the fixation with telling me about how nasty their ex is and all their dating horror stories? This is on the first date. I don't know about you guys, but I wanted to make sure my head space was correct before I started meeting new people. I'm not interested in dating these ladies ex's, it is them I am interested and I find it a massive turn off that they want to show me how nasty they themselves are by bitching about the ex.

Is this why all lot of you guys date multiple people at the same time. I still can't bring myself to do that.

Posted by: anordinaryfellow at November 1, 2009 1:20 AM

Alove was referring to a very famous and extremely funny threatre production called The Vagina Monologues. The show has been produced all over the world and I was lucky enough to see it in WA.

Posted by: iaminperth at October 31, 2009 8:20 PM

Alove, probably just trying to antagonise you and create a situation on the blogs here...attention seeking behaviour really and very unnecessary.
Have a brilliant weekend Alove and I'll now be keeping an eye out for some of the shows you and Perthy have been suggesting (I know they were showing in melb at one stage) and could do with a good laugh and night out.
xo

Posted by: ali1974 at October 31, 2009 6:19 PM

Relax Alove.. Your my Aunty and i know you're a super girl with the best intentions.. Don't loose sleep over it chicky :)

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at October 31, 2009 5:18 PM

Hi Kurli, you are right, it is just not nice, I don't believe I've come across the other bloggers names since I've been on here so I do hope they are ok and not upset.

Ali, Willow, Maybe and FG, if you guys are confused maybe you would like to change shoes with me, I have no idea why I keep appearing in its comments and wish it would move on. I was only keeping an eye out for theatre productions in Brisbane that Perthy has seen in WA - quite innocent really.

Posted by: aloveoflife at October 31, 2009 4:59 PM

Hi Ali.. that's how i see it.. If you decide to work through your relationship woes the relationship is given every chance to hold onto what first started out.

My motto is live with no regrets.... Not meaning i haven't done things i'm not regretful about, just means i've given my relationship every chance of succeeding, untill the time comes when there is no more chances,,,, hence my 'wake up' post afew weeks back.
Now if i see something worth chasing after (it can be whatever, Waves, chicks, career, anything) I'll step towards it in a positive manner and give it my best shot. That way i can live with no regrets ( not missing out on anything)

Oh and cattles .... Kicky babe will be missed. But i'm sure she is close by:) ......( again not missing out!)

Enjoy the rest of the weekend guys..

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at October 31, 2009 4:59 PM

Morning to all sorry for my double post.

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 31, 2009 10:15 AM

It appears that a puppet-meister has devised a profile to upset members..
As Willow commented it is "very poor form using real names on blogs" As for CO2...maybe "methane" is a better description.....it's poisonous, isnt it?

Posted by: kurli at October 31, 2009 10:09 AM

Thanks FG.
Hmmmmm *thinking music*......
if anyone is in an unhappy relationship then they (with their partner) should decide to either try to fix it or agree it's not working and move on with their lives. If you're feeling bad about yourself and life, then there's an issue and you can't (or more to the point - shouldn't) ignore it. Work on it, work it out and get back to feeling good about who you are.
If you both decide to try working through it, then you're not necessarily missing out, because you've obviously decided that there's something worth working for in the current situation. So technically, that opportunity doesn't really exist, because you've seen something more in your current realtionship.
And if by chance both parties decide to get out, then again, you're not really missing out because that opportunity remains to meet with that other someone you think might be better for you.
Then there's the other side of it, if someone is in a happy relationship they really shouldn't be looking for the next best thing. That's not fair on anyone (current partner and that someone else they found) it seems to send a message that they may always be looking for the next best thing, which really seems to indicate they're not happy within themselves.
Ali

Posted by: ali1974 at October 31, 2009 9:43 AM

Good luck with your exams Maybe !! the last little stretch i always find the hardest.... but you're nearly there :)

Hope all is well with the wedding Virgo... and that you are having sleep-ins this weekend !

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at October 31, 2009 9:37 AM

Hey Feelgood.....how can you proved I am Kick?, Perth said Kick is he !, very intriguing really, Hmnnnnow you are guessing? or did you miss your kicky baby? Ohhh people loved the showbiz scope..:)
FG you have a great talent as translator..ok my next post will be more harder to read, so stand-by there to translate and thanks.
:)))

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 31, 2009 4:48 AM

Sorry Willow, How did I know the real name?, Not my intention I'm just only guessing, i got it only in a puzzled words. Anyway, no hard feelings he did it to me too, revealed my name without my consent. ( " secret of revelation blog ).

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 31, 2009 4:16 AM

It is very poor form to use people's real names on the blogs, if they haven't revealed them themselves.

Posted by: willow29 at October 30, 2009 9:21 PM

Well cattles i know what your on about.. (?)

Maybe , Ali.. i think what Kick is trying to say is ...., if your stuck in an unhappy relationship but have found someone else that you would like to spend time with ,,but can't because your in a relationship..... then you miss the opportunity and it slips past.... Missing that chance might have bought about regrets.

???????????? thats what i can make of it.

Got me Stuffed!!

Posted by: feelgood76 at October 30, 2009 9:20 PM

Maybe, i'm confused right alongside you!!!!

Posted by: ali1974 at October 30, 2009 8:17 PM

I"m confused!!!!!!!

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at October 30, 2009 1:20 PM

Willow, the last paragraph, there are some people live unreasonable circumstances and they feel, to free themselves from those constraints. Yes my heart ache for them. what a twist of fate, I can't think of any advice what's the best thing to do. When you found someone whom you want to live for the rest of your lives while stuck with other circumstances; really sad; I remained single to free myself from regrets on the day when I found someone I like to live with till day of my last breath. I keep my life open for that opportunities. When the great day comes to knock me on..an overwhelming shout on top of my voice .."this is it"....!

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 30, 2009 11:54 AM

Willow, WTF? I don't know in nice words means by that !, But I know in text msg. words means- :))

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 30, 2009 9:44 AM

Alove...you response at Perth comments " I'll keep an eye out Perth" (Pray before making love blog) - then you know what i'm talking about. It looks like " Love Triangle" triplet methink! My profile is up, some pioneers bloggers are still here, they recognised me. I'm positive of that.
My profile name is CattleyaOrchids, tooo long to type, you can call me .."CO2", means Carbon Oxide. :)

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 30, 2009 9:37 AM

Alove...you response at Perth comments " I'll keep an eye out Perth" (Pray before making love blog) - then you know what i'm talking about. It looks like " Love Triangle" triplet methink! My profile is up, some pioneers bloggers are still here, they recognised me. I'm positive of that.
My profile name is CattleyaOrchids, you can call me .."CO2", means Carbon Oxide. :)

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 30, 2009 9:31 AM

Cattleyaorchids, I don't know Decoratress and Renato (my apologies to you both), ummm are you trying to say you are Kick? It is best to be upfront and honest on the blogs, we all prefer it and there are nice people here, I hope you are happier as yourself blogging.

Posted by: aloveoflife at October 30, 2009 12:00 AM

Willow, it's a personal touche! from me to you!
Sometimes we have to compromise in order to help ourselves. There will be a time such a course of action in many circumstances will demand it, and will forced to by other unforeseen factors. Sometimes the outcome may even look like it goes against you. But It's all the test of time how we deal it. We all make mistake and regrets by the time we realised, we can correct it and learn a lesson to be aware in next phase of life. There is no such things being imprison of fate that snatch in defeat. Living in life are a huge challenge to move carefully and rise the victory. The world is huge that leads a new place. People unable to look at it, think their surrounding is a heaven stakes being stuck in it. Our natural state is abundance and it is only our mind that dwells on what has been. I believed we are born to be a winner it a matter how we deal it; to go or lost it. The soul knows what we need to experience in ultimate test.

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 29, 2009 11:50 PM

Orchid - WTF?

Posted by: willow29 at October 29, 2009 11:08 PM

Alove,...By the way, I'm being upfront for the sake of myself in peace and I got nothing to do with Decoratress and Renato they have to deal their own fears. I won't tolerate any foul hitting below the belt. It just that the way it is...

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 29, 2009 10:50 PM

Tha! Alove,...less in such secrecy surrounding stories is was going to be the biggest show on earth when the camera were running all the time (think the clues) you and I, the message behind it was positive and everything that went into it, became unaware so it's going to be real. I will enjoyed the banter in fair games not just betrayal on opponent.

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 29, 2009 10:34 PM

Thanks to all for the best wishes. I'm looking forward to the weekend. It's going to be busy but fun.

Finally all packed and ready to roll early tomorrow.

Posted by: icycle67 at October 29, 2009 9:40 PM

Hey Icy, have a great time in Melbourne, great to see a big family do - enjoy! Nice to hear you had a great date also.

Maybe - great to see you back - stay a while!!

Welcome Cattleaorchids to the blogs, enjoy the banter and the nice people that chat here.

Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at October 29, 2009 8:37 PM

Congratulations to your Gran Icy hitting 100 years old. I hope she is doing well for her age and hopefully she will thoroughly enjoy all the celebrations.

It will be fabulous for you and your kids as well for them to see where you grew up and have laughs and probably a few tears with you remembering your past.

5 generations of family. Do you actually have a head count, that could be an awful lotof people.

Hope you all have a great great time and I hope gran enjoys herself as well.

Posted by: iaminperth at October 29, 2009 8:18 PM

Nice post, Orchids and welcome. Yes you're right, it is nice to see your best friends and your parents living the "happily ever after" dreams. And it is getting rarer - but perhaps thats because we're less willing to compromise nowadays? How many posts do we read saying "its my way or the highway". When traditionally, a partnership was about fitting in with each other's lives.

Of course there is the other side where people used to live in unreasonable circumstances and now they feel they are free to free themselves from those constraints.

Posted by: willow29 at October 29, 2009 3:11 PM

Wow Virg.. Mother of the Bride hey... I hope to see an updated pic on your profile of you on the special day. May the weather be perfect, the day flow smoothly and the union last forever xo

Ahhh cattle... fate.....
Personally there's a few things I'd change in my past... but they would all contribute to me being a slightly different (and in my opinion) better version of the current me.

Virg and Icy you should meet up for a coffee.... one can never have too many friends.

This week has been carrrraaaaaaaaaazzeeeee for those around me (no, nothing to do with moi!) and it's made me realise just how good us singles have it at times. So I'm in a melancholic kind of place this week.... counting down the days til exams are over and I can get out into the real world!!!

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at October 29, 2009 2:21 PM

I believed when it comes to relationship, a lot of it is Fate. If could see some similarities alike with time and easy resting life would have been good then. Must had know when you going to take care of them and giving trust. We live in a day and age where everyone has iphones and camera phones - it was definitely an element I could relate to, popping in and popping out of life.
It is pretty romantic citing your parents, bestfiends are still married, still together, still happy, which I think this is the most romantic things anyone can ask for.,really. To have that sort of example of two people enduring a love and a life together, I don't think it gets any better., really. "It's rarer and rarer ".

I firmly believed you have meant to have it all kinds of experiences in life and I'm very realistic about that. I believed in doing the best you can, take control of things but don't stress about stuff you can't control. If given a chance. I wouldn't change anything, I would do exactly the same things all over again. There is no point to go back the same scenarios with a person lost in many cause, if didn't work it out from the start of relationship, then there is no chance to make it as good in second attempt. A Change of direction is more effective than going back same old, same old courses.

Posted by: cattleyaorchids at October 29, 2009 11:21 AM

Morning Maybe....

I'm great....how you doin...:)

I'm getting ready for my daughters wedding next weekend....!!

It's good to see your cheeky face back here..:)

Luv Virgo...xoxo

Posted by: virgowoman2 at October 29, 2009 10:35 AM

Well, give me a wave just as you're landing..I live out near the airport..!

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at October 29, 2009 10:31 AM

LOL GlitterBlue... soooo sooo true..... I hate being dry for so long!!!

Wow Icy.. what a brilliant time you and yours are goin to have.... and happy birthday to Gran.. way to go!

HELLO Virgo... mwah and hugs to you from Brissy... how are you girl?

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at October 29, 2009 10:27 AM

Yes, she gets a telegram from the Queen but only because it has been organised by one of my uncles. It doesn't happen automatically.

Posted by: icycle67 at October 29, 2009 10:15 AM

Icey...

Well, the weather down here is suppose to be beautiful all weekend...that'll be great for you and your family...especially your Gran...!

Do people that turn 100 still get a message from the Queen..?

So, you're a Melbourne boy....hope your kids enjoy your old hometown, and you do too..!!

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at October 29, 2009 7:36 AM

Wow, Icey, that IS an important event! Definately not missable. I hope everyone has a wonderful time - especially your Gran.

Posted by: willow29 at October 28, 2009 10:19 PM

glitter, even in melb these days you need to look to find good coffee...not as reliable as it used to be..a few hacks getting in. Still the best though *grin*
My first thing is to scope out the coffee situation whenever I move to a new project location. most consistent best coffee (soy latte) is bluestones (sadly located other side of the city), second best at mo is the journal (again not so easy to get to during the day). :-(
hmmmm...a good coffee can make or break a day...

Posted by: ali1974 at October 28, 2009 8:48 PM

Virgo,

My grandmother's 100th birthday celebrations. BIG family gathering. First time for many years (maybe ever?) that all the family including cousins, aunts , uncles etc etc have been together. 5 generations will be there.

It will be good to show my kids around where I grew up. They will be bored out of their brains but I'll enjoy it.

Icy

Posted by: icycle67 at October 28, 2009 8:41 PM

Yeah Maybe, you miss it when you've been "dry" for a while hey!? ;)

BTW, Glitterbelle is GB to . . . bit confusing.

Glitter xo

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 28, 2009 6:28 PM

Icey...

What are you doing down in my neck of the woods this weekend..don't tell me you're riding down...:)

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at October 28, 2009 5:18 PM

Thanks for the Welcome Back Icy and GB.... green baby is dry and bored at the moment.. .I have exams coming up in two weeks so it's cram cram cram, but after the 18th I'll be out on that water .... ooops sorry back with you was lost in a dream for a moment there.. picturing the serenity.. and ensuing aching muscles lol

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at October 28, 2009 11:16 AM

. . .ancient at 37 . .

Belle, I was being fully sarcastic! : /

Now grandma's gotta go empty her kayak - it's on the roof of the car and it rained all night - bugger!!

Have a good day You Lot.

Glitter : )

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 28, 2009 8:32 AM

Posted by: icycle67 at October 27, 2009 10:15 PM
That made me smile...clever :)

Posted by: sweetenuff67 at October 28, 2009 8:18 AM

19 and 20 year olds wel mannered and stunning and 50 and 60 year olds hitting the dance floor, hitting the night life, hitting the grog, hitting on each other. God only knows what they are trying to prove.

I think it's sometimes the case of 'we're free, we can do whatever we like, with whoever we choose' and so they behave like oversexed, overfed morons. The guys think they should conquer, the women think they are ballsy. At the end of the day when the booze wears off and they look in the mirror, you would have to wonder who they see staring back at them.

I think a lot of guys at the moment have far more manners and style than a lot of the women. I think women have gone overboard trying to prove they can do anything the blokes can. Unfortunately, for some this just means boozing and swearing more and generally making an ass of themselves.

Posted by: iaminperth at October 28, 2009 1:03 AM

Talk about the weather alright FG....who would want to live anywhere near Perth... I hear the weather is quite foul!!! Heavy dark clouds forever on the horizon... and unrelenting rain! Miserable really!

Posted by: karen59 at October 28, 2009 12:03 AM

Hey Belle,

Sounds like you know a couple of my mates....50+ and still stupid...think because a good looking girl says "hello" that they are in with a show....never will grow up and accept reality.

Theres an old saying "no fool like an old fool"....been there, done that, but dont make a habit of it...I hope!!:))

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 27, 2009 11:19 PM

Gawd.... ancient Glitter ... now theres a thought *cough, cough, clear throat .. bs.*

Dance around a handbag !?! Geez thats what the whingy friend looks after ... y'know the one with the headache?

As for the membership to the dirty 30 club.... see ya's in about 11 months :)

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at October 27, 2009 11:10 PM

Belle, I still hold to my initial generalisation however of the "STANDARD" woman in her 20's - with respect to their maturity levels in a relationship and the way they (generalising) carry on with their fellas, frankly, is embarrasing and one wonders why many of the men stay for so long!!

Conversly it is men in their mid 30s to late 40s (generalising once again) that tend to behave less that maturely in relationships eg not growing up, not compromising, not pulling their weight, thinking their still sexy, hot studs, when they've let themselves go . etc etc. . .

While we are generalising . . . .

Glitter xo

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 11:09 PM

Generalisations ... theres a way to get me into trouble!....i know a 45 yr old that carry on like unrepenting pork chops & date like their 13 and have just discovered themselves... i know 22 yr olds that have spades of insight. But the wisest of all? He's 5.

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at October 27, 2009 11:01 PM

Yeah, but Brisvagas is 1.5 hours south of moi!??

I have to settle for Nescafe Blend 43 (just have lots and lots of it to make up for quality)

: ((

Glitter *who's Nonna Lina would be rolling in her Italian grave*

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 10:32 PM

Generally it has better coffee. You just need to know where to go in Bris.

I make my own great coffee so I'm a happy little iSnack2.0.

Posted by: icycle67 at October 27, 2009 10:15 PM

Hi Maybe!!! Welcome back - how's your green baby going? Back on the water yet?

Glitter xo

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 10:10 PM

Well I hope it bloody clears up by the following weekend as I have shoe-string straps!! and Sandles . . .: ((

We never have to think about the weather here on the Sunny Coast (and Brissy). . . it makes you appreciate what you have at home.

Except Melb has better coffee - c'mon, Icy, it does!

Glitter *hands on hips, nodding*

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 10:09 PM

Welcome back MBP4U.

It does exist. The middle ground is where it's at for me.

Posted by: icycle67 at October 27, 2009 10:07 PM

My experience has been guys who just want casual no strings attached, or guys who want marriage.... whereas I'm looking for the happy middle ground of romance, passion and exclusivity with our own space..... but does it exist?

I've played the 'casual' game and been the one emotionally invested and therefore, the one that got hurt. (Although the heart wants what the heart wants, darn it!).

So good to be back and reading the blogs again.... thanks for the smiles guys :) xo

Posted by: maybeperfect4u at October 27, 2009 9:59 PM

Little Froggy, I'm glad you are free now at least one step closer to being in a happy relationship - and yes that's what I meant by "sounds exhausting" - it certainly does wear you down . . .

You will be please to know that there a heaps and heaps of women that don't change their minds all the time, including what they're wearing before they leave the house .. . .some just don't care that much what other's think about them .. . .?!

Good luck with it all though, I'd hate to be a man, it's hard enough being a woman let alone dating one . . .(humour ;-))

Luv Glitter xo

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 9:56 PM

Ah the weather.

I just thought I'd check the forecast for Melbourne for this weekend seeing I'll be there.........
Friday - Shower or two 18 – 29
Saturday - Shower or two 19 – 28
Sunday - Shower or two developing 15 – 22
Monday - Shower or two 14 - 28

Sounds like Melbourne.

Posted by: icycle67 at October 27, 2009 9:54 PM

how bout i talk about the weather...

Raining cold.,, like perth.

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at October 27, 2009 9:39 PM

Good on you Willow. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago there may have been problems but there are so many products on the market now, no one needs to suffer. And sure, if you get a headache once a month, so what, everyone gets a headache.

Too much blaming the other person and making excuses and all the excuse for illneses that pop up. You should hear some of them that they come out with at work. Anything to take time off. I don't know how many cases of suspected swine flu we have had necesitating weeks off work. I personally don't believe any one of them were really sick but once they can produce that certificate, that's it.

Posted by: iaminperth at October 27, 2009 9:34 PM

And yes Belle, those kind of women who still carry on like that . . . dance around their handbag . .

Hang on!!! I still do that and I'm and ancient age of 37 !!!

: )

Also still wear glitter and eat dinner in bed . .. .and rollerblade . .. . yes it is an attitude - there are exceptions to rules.

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 9:34 PM

" . . attitude, not an age thing . . "

Yes, Belle, as I have myself said so many times on the other blog . . I did say I was generalising - surely you wouldn't disagree with that "generalisation"??

Glitter

ps. Anyway I thought you were 30 Belle or at least in the next few months? No? It's not a line in the sand - you are close enough . . .: )

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 9:32 PM

Hi Guys

well my post may have come across a little harsh or odd.. but what i meant was.. blokes tend to be grounded in 'light' decision making. eg.. what to wear out.ect.... Blokes are happy to wear just about anything...,, Chicks change their minds ten times over before they step out the door. ( well the ones i meet do anyway) So i can tell you i have had a good look at myself and that's why i've been on here for ages. I would like to meet someone that shares my interest and is more relaxed person to what i have experienced.
I would often provide time for my partner with interest that less suited me ( like horse riding) just because i wanted to share time with her. I get a smile from seeing people that i love enjoy them self with something they love doing. when the shoes on the other foot...,eg me going fishing or surfing ... nothing in return. Kinda wears you down after ten+ years or so.

Referring to the blow posts... I wasn't going to stay in a relationship and pretend i'm happy when i was clearly not.

thought this might give you a little more insight as to where i'm coming from.

Posted by: feelgood76 at October 27, 2009 9:31 PM

glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 7:15 PM "women in their 20's " scratch that.... think you mean girls that still dance around their handbags?" ...its an attitude not an age thing Glitter!"

thoughts from a just twentysomething!

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at October 27, 2009 9:09 PM

I am sure guys must feel that way at times FG! My daughter is an absolute nightmare when she is premenstrual and I often think... "the poor guy that ever has to try to live with her!!!"

Posted by: karen59 at October 27, 2009 8:05 PM

and yet you still love some of 'em FG...don't you?

Posted by: ali1974 at October 27, 2009 7:18 PM

". . .none of my students were going to stuff that up! . . ."

Wills, I always KNEW you were a boot camp kinda woman - and I like that! (all soft and girly on the outside and tough as steel on the inside - am I wrong??)

: )))

Glitter xo

ps I agree totally btw.

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 7:17 PM

Posted by: feelgood76 at October 26, 2009 11:01 PM . . .

Froggy, women in their 20's tend to do/say stuff like that - women 30 and above (generalising) know that that shit doesn't cut it . . . and that they have to be responsible for their descisions, actions and behaviour in life and in their relationships.

Sounds exhausting to me.

Glitter

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 27, 2009 7:15 PM

Totally Willow and what a ridiculous attitude to life blaming everyone else for their shortcomings. Absolutely pathetic nonsensical post.

Posted by: iaminperth at October 27, 2009 5:37 PM

I agree Perth. When I was teaching Vocational Ed, I said to my female students that I dont ever want to hear them using hormones as an excuse not to act professionally at all times. If they can't, see a doctor and get it sorted or join a different program.

People suffered so we would have rights in the workplace and none of my students were going to stuff that up!

Posted by: willow29 at October 27, 2009 3:57 PM

You must know some strange women then FG. Maybe it's time to look at yourself and see the kind of woman you are attracted to and the kind of woman that is attracted to you.

Maybe spend more time doing things together rather than talking about doing things. I don't know but that post sounds rather odd to me.

Posted by: iaminperth at October 27, 2009 11:07 AM

Woman change their minds like the weather... emotional bundles of menstrual stress.. Try living with one that keeps the same thoughts about something for more than a week. All i hear is " i'm allowed to change my mind.., it's that time of the month.., Blah blah..
then the next day.. fine as roses..?

Woman...? got me stuffed.

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at October 26, 2009 11:01 PM

Darn right Bob,

People put far too much emphasis on being in a relationship that they almost lose their minds over it. I have seen more women lie through their teeth, cast aside what they really want and degrade themselves to get a mans attention its incredible......then turn tail and be a complete victim and passively aggressively chew away at him whilst she makes herself eternally miserable trying to change him subtly by any means she can.

I think we can only go on experience, our own experience. I have been around 37 years now, in those years, as lovely as most of the guys I have had relationships with are, they have hidden the parts which they didnt think I would like about them.....only to admit they had them but kept them away as they knew i wouldnt like them after the relationship ended........hardly fair.

Too many women arent honest about what they really want and are too quick to throw those things that are important for a reason away for male attention.

Come on, men know what women hate about them, they know what women want and they know how women talk and whinge behind their backs about those things.............it isnt rocket science. Its just people turn a blind eye, pretend these things dont exist..............if women told men what they really really want and what they really really dont more importantly, men wouldnt be suprised, they know it already.....they just dont want it said aloud.

You see to me, men should be honest, women should be honest and suffer the consequences if the opposite sex doesnt want them because of that.

Everyone is allowed to be what they want to be so long as they admit it freely and openly and accept the repurcussions of that..........like I do, I dont expect men to want me when I demand so much of them and I am happy to live with that.

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 26, 2009 8:41 PM

Hey Oney,

Cant agree more....I am only looking for friends now too, just want to meet some women that would enjoy my company on a night out for drinks, dinner etc. I expect them to continue looking for their perfect guy; but why sit at home waiting when you can go out and have some fun?

If they meet their perfect guy, I realistically expect that I will drop of the radar of most...but thats OK, I have no expectations. However, if there is someone with whom I can forge a good friendship; then this nice guy hasn't finished last...has he?

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 26, 2009 5:22 PM

Posted by: atimetolove at October 24, 2009 9:33 PM

I don't know if I congratulated you on that post, but congrats anyway :-)

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 26, 2009 4:21 PM

Perth, I did exactly that when I looked at whether a relationship really was what I wanted or if I were just following like a sheep what everyone else does.

I wrote the pro and con list.............and my pro of being single, celibate and without a man in my life was far greater than the alternative of having one in it and being in a relationship.

I belive, truly, I did that with an open mind, logical, practical and also thinking about how free my heart is when I am single and how restricted my heart is when I am dating.

I can love freely when I am not restricted by the 'should be, be this, be that, dont be too this, dont be too that' that comes with dating.

Plus, being honest, I really am doing the male gender a favour by staying away from them for sure.

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 26, 2009 4:16 PM

Wow, so many new bloggers. This is fantastic. Welcome!

Fullmoonmagic - I liked on your profile how you wrote you read street signs, backs of the bus etc. I do that too - read everything!!!

Posted by: willow29 at October 26, 2009 10:23 AM

I agree Anof, the people who push the boundaries in whatever way, large or small, are usually pretty interesting people who you can learn from. I like meeting people who I can learn from whether it be a small child suffering a terrible disability to the company exec who has achieved incredible results.

It's just life and it's just finding your own little niche and what you find interesting in life. I think a lot of it is simply how you are born, there's not a lot you can do about that. As a child I was a bit of a wanderer, still am. I can move house, state, country as easy as. I don't get terribly attached to things. I am totally attached to my little family and all our furry members as well. So, it's just who you are and that's what makes us all pretty special.

I personally don't like all these rules and regulations that people have for the simple reason I don't think you ever meet the real person. I also don't think that any of us have a right to tell another person how they should think.

Again personally, I think too many people are focussing on negatives nowadays and instead of building on the positives just give up. Write a list, anything that's great on one side, anything not so great on the other. See which attracts the most votes. Focussing on negatives and trying to control people never has a positive result and two wrongs never ever make a right.

Posted by: iaminperth at October 26, 2009 9:29 AM

Being honest Smooth, I wasnt asking for anything I wasnt myself in my previous profile. I am not asking for someone richer than me, better looking than me, vastly younger than me. I am asking someone my own age or slightly (slightly being operative) younger, with similar values, similar looks wise, similar mentality and intellect etc. I have wasted so much time having my life lowered time and time again by giving guys chances and every single time my life has become a lower quality as a result..............I ask how much longer people expect my quality of life to be lowered.

I know two of my friends have stopped dating as they have come to the same conclusion and i have never seen them happier since they did that.

I really have to say, its my choice and my choice is that I have given up as I really dont see the benefits outweighing the quality of life I have when I invite someone into it emotionally.

I know people get angry, upset, narky about people giving up........as it almost threatens their dream, so often react negatively...................but it hasnt caught on just yet, it may do later and more people may choose my route, but at the moment, you are quite safe, I think most men and women still have the dream.

I am just one person, dont stress too much about it......................I just dont think I have a match and really am not going to keep trying and keep going through the same old of men telling me they are and they belive and they share my x or y...........only to apologise for saying things they werent later on down the track after they have lowered my life.

There are plenty of women still willing to give you guys a shot, they arent all following suit :-)

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 26, 2009 7:00 AM

Tidaldancer,

My point exactly. This "life is a competition" disorder makes people exceedingly boring. My "this is better than your (or someone else's) that, I'm dating more people that you, etc", really is an annoying trait that some people have. Yes I have a good job, car, kids etc, but I'm not interested in what they have and don't have. I'm interested in who they are, not what they have. This is not to be confused with competitive people. People who like to push the boundaries in professional or outside work activities can actually be quite intellectually stimulating.

Secondly if I can't respect some one's feeling first up, it doesn't bode well for the future with them and vice versa.

Glitterbelle, the date didn't go well. Thank you for your kind thoughts though.

I will have to re-look at my profile and probably get some advise from Bob.

*Please note the following disclaimer. Just because I think something is right, doesn't mean we all should feel this way or it is in-fact "right". This blog would be boring if we did.

Posted by: anordinaryfellow at October 25, 2009 7:12 PM

I'm not really into multiple dating - maybe its my age - but its just not my thing - probably why I won't 'commit' to casual dating (isn't that an oxymoron?).

If you are HONEST and UPFRONT about being in it JUST for casual dating/hooking up/no strings attached and have been very clear about that - then I don't see a problem. Your 'date' simply should not expect it if you both have the same criteria.

If, however, the expectations have shifted in either of you, then you need to discuss those issues in WORDS with each other LOL! Otherwise there will just be confusion and chaos and disrespect and someone will end up getting hurt. But thats just my aged opinion LOL!

Posted by: fullmoonmagic at October 25, 2009 11:54 AM

Smooth........I think you answered your own question.

You said my original profile excluded all life as we know it...................my new profile says he doesnt exist....question answered :-)

My original profile was only honesty about what I wanted. No I dont want someone older than myself, but nor do 95% of men on here either, so why should I? My original profile said I wanted my equal, in all respects, so no I wasnt interested in someone with say a lower respect for people or a lower sense of values etc. I just had to be honest about that, as well as being a match, phew it was just ridiculous to even look for it.

I really am happy single, but I do love my guy friends and would like to have some more great guy pals as I havent met so many since being here on the GC.

What I want, long long list, a man with my values, my age or slightly younger (as guys all seem to want that too I cant be criticised before you do), the bits at my core are really important, the values I have............like no, i wont be with a man who flirts, or checks out women, or talks about them in that 'shes hot' sort of way. Call me a sucker, but I want a man who only has eyes for me and I dont want a guy who lies about it just to keep the peace you know. I dont care about money, or lack of as I have my own, I love intelligence, but life intelligence for me is better than bits of paper.....I love hippies if I am honest, I love deep layered people, who can have deep conversations.............but also are big kids who can have fun and like me, dont want to grow up completely and of course, I would have to find him gorgeous.

Like Bob................I am just not looking. I am not going to lose myself like many women do, who start justifying why they will be with someone when he isnt what they want, chipping away and turning a blind eye to what they dont want to see........then passive aggressively trying to change him later and resenting him.

I will stick to some great male friends I think...........I adore men, am not a man hater...........just cant see the catch in having a relationship with them.

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 25, 2009 7:26 AM

Posted by: smoothman at October 24, 2009 1:12 AM

That was a great post Smoothman. Welcome to the blogs.

I tried to post one much like that, but had to go do something and it got lost . . . so thanks, you said it better than me. Very valid points.

Hope you stick around with more of your "observations".

Glitter : )

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 24, 2009 10:20 PM

Hi Everyone,

This is my first time writing, but I've been a long time reader of all your blogs and thoroughly enjoy.
I've just read your discussion of the "Mother-Me-Theresa" personalities and had an overwhelming urge to share.
The clinical term is "Passive Aggressive Personality" and it's a learnt behaviour in childhood. Sounds so scary when given a clinical name and even more so living with one! If you care to google the term, it's very interesting reading. Makes you wary of some of those good, gentle and what appear to be, sensitive men. They actually have what is termed a parasitic personality. Both sexes can have the manipulative disorder, however in women it's seen as the "poor weak little me, I need a big strong man to take care of me"... and we all know some of those..and it works for them.

Posted by: atimetolove at October 24, 2009 9:33 PM

Hi Tidaldancer,

I dont see it as a lack of respect for the other person(or people) you are seeing if you are up front about what you are doing. It is disrespectful only if you aren't up front...the other person should know exactly with whom they are dealing...then the choice is theirs whether they choose to meet you in the first place.

I make no bones about the fact I want to make some female friends...I'm not here to meet someone specifically to form a long term relationship...never have actually. That is not to say that if that special someone walked into my life that I would run away...but they have to walk into my life...I'm not looking for them.

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 24, 2009 6:39 PM

Hey Smooth....

Welcome to the blogs...sometimes fun...sometimes serious...:))

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at October 24, 2009 5:55 PM

Great post Smoothy! Welcome!
Krazy.

Posted by: karen59 at October 24, 2009 5:25 PM

I'll send some Russians your way, Bob. Happy to share.

Thanks OMO. Actually, to be honest, I was going to follow the lovely compliments by taking you to task about your profile, which had so many exclusions that it seemed to exclude all life as we know it, and some yet to be imagined. But you've gone and 'dewinded' my sails by changing it. I must say, it was utterly hilarious, though in a slightly sad way. Like Jewish comedy, for example.

As for the new one, you have me curious. "I've listened to what men want". Sorry, but who has been speaking on my behalf and on behalf of all 'men' without consulting me? What is it that I'm supposed to want?

"what I'm looking for just doesn't exist....". What is it, exactly? And how is 'not having found it yet' evidence of it not existing? Despite the experience of life which might support your premise, I just don't believe it. I have been fortunate to have had glimpses of aspects of what I want in life, and they lead me to continue to believe in the power of possibility, not of "the one" but certainly of "a one" for a given time.

Posted by: smoothman at October 24, 2009 1:12 AM

Virgo, Joanna Lumley, I don't know but how about a Bolly Stolley hey schweetie???

Oney, how's the noise down there, might but just about time to crank up the music, love to be there but theatre tomorrow night calls, let you know how that is ;-)

Have a great weekend all! Alove x

Posted by: aloveoflife at October 24, 2009 12:20 AM

hey smoothman, I try not to hold one person's bad behaviour against another - that's not fair on everyone else. still believe there are brilliant genuine men out there, just need to get meself a sherlock holmes outfit and get looking. ;-)
But I do watch out for similarities :-)
have a great weekend.
ali

Posted by: ali1974 at October 23, 2009 6:32 PM

Hey 'belle, I learnt the mother-me-theresa reference from Oney earlier this year. she had alot of us laughing at the phrase because we could all relate and didn't realise there was a phrase for it.
Ali
xo

Posted by: ali1974 at October 23, 2009 6:25 PM

Anordinaryfellow

I tend to be more old fashioned and agree with you on the one at a time approach. This multiple dating appears to me more like super market shopping, hunting for the better deal or bargain.

Online dating certainly exposes one to more choices than one would have in their normal environment, but the world is competitive enough in our daily life and finding a love and a partner should not be another competition.

Undoubtedly its very convenient to keep your options open in case something does not work out with the favored person, but where is the respect for others feelings in that sort of approach?

Posted by: tidaldancer at October 23, 2009 5:44 PM

Nope Oney... not into subliminal... read the second post on the blog :)

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at October 23, 2009 5:31 PM

Hey Oney,

All my foreign contacts are actually saying they are living in those countries, not here in Australia....all looking for a husband....wow, might have to rejig the bio to say "not looking for wife, housekeeper, mother, carer or general dogsbody"!!

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 23, 2009 4:40 PM

Hey Bob, Smooth gets the Russians :-) Bob will be pretty miffed now, as he has every other nationality but the Russians seem to have snubbed him.

Belle, was that subliminal advertising in your post just then? :-) If you want a good time call..............arent they normally on bathroom doors in public places? hahaha

I have too been the Mother Me Theresa and as the lovely Amber put so nicely, you can never have a grown up equal relationship with these people and they will never be supportive of you..........which is spot on.....then you end up getting the blame for everything in their life.

Smooth, I do like your posts, I hope you stick around.....and obviously not just for the lovely compliments you just gave me........honest :-)

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 23, 2009 2:33 PM

Thanks Oney - Mother-me-Theresa? been there ... done that... have a thing against violins...

hmmm.... anyone else confused by the question? is it "casual dating" or "hooking up without strings" or just exclusivity?

If its casual dating then i agree with BOB. If youve been "hooking up" before you worked out whether you wanted a relationship.... then its kind of a suck apples situation? you should have maybe thought of that first?? then i agree with Perth.... provided your not being deceitful about what you really (dont) want.

If its the exclusivity factor - dont you have to decide which of your dates (if any) you want to take a chance to get to know better? Good time call FG..

An Ordinary Fellow - hope you had a great date... i look at dating kinda like having friends... Hey Thyme... why 1 month?

Happy Daze :)

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at October 23, 2009 12:16 PM

Anordinaryfellow,

Hey thats up to you, you do whatever you think is right.

Yes I believe differently, just as I am only friends with someone (not kissing friends either) for a few months so I can get to know who they really are. I have always been very honest with men that I was dating and getting to know others and that my reason for that was that I wanted to find the right guy, not try and make things work with just one guy at the beginning........as a woman, I tend to ignore red flags when I concentrate on one guy to be honest.

Like I say thats just my view and i am very open and honest with guys about that.......I would never ever tell someone they are the only interest.

Bob, I get some strange ones contacting me too, 23 year olds etc etc.........and you wonder what they are thinking, well yes, I know what they are thinking.........which is a total utter rubbish thing anyway............if the guy is as much use as a chocolate fireguard it doesnt matter how experienced I am...anyway.........there are some on here who are probably less than genuine and I remember once cruising around playing spot the professional lady (if you get my meaning), once

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 23, 2009 6:32 AM

> I have in fact realised its me, not so much the guys.

OMO, you don't really believe that, do you? I don't. You're clearly an attractive, intelligent, articulate, opinionated (and from me that's a compliment) person. And although it takes two to foxtrot, my experience of women I've spoken to or met on RSVP has been almost universally good. Of course, we didn't necessarily click, but I've like them all, and only one was a 'game player' of any sort (had a boyfriend really, but was testing the waters before deciding whether she was committed).

But from what I hear from these blogs and from people I know, most women's experience is different. That's a sad, but unsurprising reflection on a lot of men, and on behalf of men in general, Ali and OMO, I'd like to apologise for the shameful or weird behaviour of what I hope is a minority.

That's not to say I've not also experienced a recent spate of contacts from apparently young overseas women, especially from the US, and Russians who claim to be here in Adelaide. And those annoying people without a photo who request mine. I'd like a new kiss reply that says "Hey, I'm not as green as I'm cabbage coloured".

Posted by: smoothman at October 23, 2009 12:56 AM

Hey Anordinaryfellow,

You are not lying if you tell her up front...after all, this is supposedly a dating site.

We all do things by our own values...good for you...but dating is nothing serious, its meeting people to see if you are suited for something more.

We in Australia have never ha a proper "dating" culture as they have in the USA...its all very foreign to us...so we struggle with that concept (I stole that from someone)!!:)))

bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 22, 2009 11:13 PM

Hey Oney,

Fair go...not getting rejected (thanks heaps!!:))) for that); just no contacts yet.

Actually, I have been contacted by a Russian, but that was a while ago when I was Notgodsgift...they always pose with the arse sticking out...dont get that one:)))

I still cant work out why young women contact old farts like me...I have had a few contacts locally from 20 and 30 somethings...can only think they believe I'm loaded because of where I live...boy, would they be getting a shock:)))

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 22, 2009 11:07 PM

Reading the posts here I must be a little strange. I can not date more than one lady at a time. Why? Being the worst person at telling a lie in the world, how could I tell a lady I am meeting (this Saturday is a first for me with someone from RSVP) that I have another date lined up the next night or the next week.
To me it's just wrong, so all other bets are of until I have met this lady.
Does this mean that I think this lady will be the one? Really I don't know, but doesn't she deserve the opportunity for me to find out.
Am I missing out because of my beliefs? I don't think so. I believe I would be missing out on more if I didn't believe in doing the right thing.

Posted by: anordinaryfellow at October 22, 2009 11:03 PM

Oh no, the Russians are rejecting you.............darnit, they have become so cool now those Russian Brides......they really are just tough to get these days.

Yeh I have been caught by a Wordsmith myself.......people often think they are clever, but they arent, they just are skilled from birth to manipulate to get attention, its a natural instinct, probably the reason they dont seem obvious, as they dont seem that intelligent, as they arent but manage to get very intelligent women wrapped in their web. They also seem like such lovely good hearted people too......thats the worst part of it, so you never believe you are being suckered.

Anyway, time for me to get to bed, old age and all getting the better of me :-)

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 22, 2009 10:50 PM

HI Guys,

Watching Family Guy....Peter in church...drinks the wine before the sacrament...

Peter - "Is that really the blood of Christ"?
Priest - Yes
Peter - Boy, that guy must have been really wasted all of the time"!!

Love Family Guy

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 22, 2009 10:50 PM

Hey Lizzie,

Cant see the similarity to Joanna Lumley....say "luvvie"...and get the sneer right:)))

Can see you falling into the rose bushes though....now THAT would be funny:)))))

Boof xo

Posted by: simplegame at October 22, 2009 10:46 PM

Hey Oney,

Lets see...Phillipines, USA (2), Mexico, Africa, Netherlands....little pissed off getting nothing from Russia though!!!:)))

Hey, the wordsmiths are the worst...they are master manipulators; say all the right things at all the right times. I know a couple of extremely intelligent women who have been sucked in my these guys. Thing is,if they seem too good to be true...they probably are!!

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 22, 2009 10:38 PM

Belle, its the female equivalent to Prince Charming :-) Just like the woman who needs a rescue from a Prince, the man who needs a rescue from a woman and needs this unending giver who will just sit and help him sort his life out and listen to all his whinging :-)

Oh Bob.......... are you are a catch for the dial a brides my friend? :-) Wordsmiths, such a good word to sum those types up

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 22, 2009 10:24 PM

Hey Suzie...

I was told that once, when I was standing at a function with my hair up, cigarette in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other....:)))

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at October 22, 2009 10:11 PM

Hey Girls,

Yeah...players, mommies boys, users, abusers...you girls have it hard and I think it must be incredibly difficult to sort those guys out....especially the wordsmiths!!!

My photos seem to be attracting a hell of a lot of foreign women....20's, 30's, 40's ages...wasn't aware I looked that desperate; or like a paedophile!!!....might look like a sap though:)))); but looks are deceiving!!

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 22, 2009 9:57 PM

Wow Ali - mother-me-theresa- havent heard that one before & gawd its very good :)

Love it

'Belle

Posted by: glitterbelle at October 22, 2009 9:56 PM

Just back from my spinning class. I thought your profile was a work of art Bob, albeit a great send up :-)

Ali, breaking up is something that takes practice and if you are like me and absolutely hate it as you get filled with guilt about letting someone else down, then I can sympathise with that situation you told me about below. I remember I dated a guy once that seriously, his sentences didnt make any sense. He was a kiwi guy, but he used to say things in such a round about and non commital way, trying to decipher what he said ended up with about 10 meanings to every sentence. I stuck around........it got even worse then........as every day, whichever one of those ten meanings he had chosen as the right one in his mind, woudl change the next day.........phew that was hard work, he had to go, but as I was so frustrated that one was easy to break up with as I knew I would never know anything..........at all........ever :-)

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 22, 2009 9:29 PM

hey smoothman, in terms of oney's paragraph I can only speak from my own exprience...and I have found I do have to be more and more careful.
In the past month I have managed to be 'found' by a couple of married guys on here (not my thing and I gotta learn if it's possible to spot it in their profiles...) and last night a couple looking for something more!!! WTF!!! the married guys aren't ones who are separated, divorced etc...but those lookin' for a bit on the side out of wifey's line of sight! Though they all say they're single on their profiles. ARGH!!
Have also been contacted by one guy who was single, but was looking for a type of relationship I wasn't. That guy I would still respect because he didn't try to pass himself off for someone he wasn't, was honest and upfront. And when we realised we were both wanting different things, no animosity - just ended there.
There are some great men out there, but as a girl, you really do need to be very careful of the predators, players, those seeking sugar-mamas and the mother-me-theresa's (here and day-to-day life).
Ali
:-)
*lol...still love the mother-me-theresa phrase*

Posted by: ali1974 at October 22, 2009 9:20 PM

well said smoothman, I agree if a guy can't invest in his profile, then how interesting or interested is he really? and if he's using movie quotes throughout, then how original is he? can he think for himself? at that point (in terms of being on this site), I leave and go to the next one or hang out here on the blogs.
:-)

Posted by: ali1974 at October 22, 2009 9:07 PM

Thanks for the welcome Virgo. May I say that I think you look like a younger version of Joanna Lumley (I hope you take that as a compliment) - she's a supporter of some great causes and has received many kudos along the way.
I loved her in "Ab-Fab" but you wouldn't want her to be your mother!!
By the way I know how you feel about your Little Princess - I have five of my own (2 Princes)
As for you Bob, I know you are a kidder!!
Cheers Sue

Posted by: suzie273 at October 22, 2009 9:04 PM

Oney, absolutely it gets harder. I so agree. The sooner you walk away the easier it is, because as time passes we still invest some more of our emotional self in the relationship (even if we try not to). Hard to suddenly stop caring.
Had situ earlier this year where each comment/action in its own 'right' didn't really mean all that much. Could have been a throw away line or bad joke. But after a little while and putting a few things together it was so much more. Very much a 'relationship' where there were many backhanded compliments given and it did take me a bit of internal questioning to see through.
Where some of my female friends suggested giving him another go because he was probably trying to be funny and failing, a couple of male friends thought the opposite (though they didn't come right out and say it at the time). The boys questioned the situation, raised some valid points and then told me to think about it. (Lol) They came clean when I ended it a day or 2 later, saying that's what they wanted to tell me to do, but felt I should get to that point myself and end it.
Still didn't make it easy. Still didn't want to hurt the guy's feelings. I'm one of those who believes in giving someone a fair go and a second chance - just need to learn when to ignore that 'niceness'.
Thinking back I should have gone with my first or second frown/ Hindsight - love it!
Ali

Posted by: ali1974 at October 22, 2009 9:03 PM

Hey Oney,

A bit too close to home for lots...dont you think...thats why I was "politely" asked to change it:))

I dont think you are anti-relationship at all...its just how it develops. Theres all sorts of relationships....and we all decide where it might go depending on the individual.

With me, when I meet great people, I want them as a friend....when I meet great women (for less frequent); I will move heaven and earth to keep them in my life....for me, a great friendship with a great woman can never be underestimated.

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 22, 2009 9:01 PM

Posted by: smoothman at October 22, 2009 10:47 AM

Hey Smoothie,

Bob's profile was brilliant, you really missed a great profile.

To be honest Smoothie, I have in fact realsied its me, not so much the guys and have come out as 'a celibate for life' girl. So take what I say with a pinch of salt. I have my issues with the male of the species from a relationship persective, adore men as friends, but not for anything more than that....so just ignore my yammering as its anti relationship :-)

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 22, 2009 5:48 PM

OMO37, that's a pretty depressing last paragraph. Is that really your experience as a woman in today's dating world?

As a man (last time I checked) I occasionally look at men's ads on RSVP for a laugh, and to check out the competition. Most of them are truly amazing in that they are so formulaic. If people aren't going to even emotionally invest in their RSVP profiles, what evidence is there that they are ready to, or even interested in a relationship?

But as to the question at hand. Surely "a relationship" is part of the potential range of possibilities that result from dating? It should hardly come as a surprise after you've seen someone a few times. And as I've got older, my values have shifted, so the things which come in a trusting, supportive, committed and honest relationship are now much more important to me than lots of Christmases in lose proximity. That being the case, I wouldn't typically spend very much time in someone's company unless I enjoyed it or itself, and I wouldn't be investing physically unless willing to invest emotionally. Life's too short.

Bob, I'd love to have seen your old profile :-)

Posted by: smoothman at October 22, 2009 10:47 AM

Morning Suzie...

Welcome to the blogs....hope you have a fun time here...the people here are a nice bunch of coconuts....:))

Virgo...:)

Posted by: virgowoman2 at October 22, 2009 9:58 AM

Ali, its that getting that frown and knowing, as hard as it may feel, to walk away then, as it only gets harder to when you stick around doesnt it?

Bob, I know what you mean, totally agree on mens perception, well an awful lot of mens perception. The fact is, I am looking for the guy I want just as much as someone who is looking for marriage and cohabitation. So these guys wont get anywhere anyway as they wont be as emotionally invested and its pretty obvious when men arent emotionally invested, so they wont be sleeping with me until they are anyway.

I want romance, I want my best friend and lover and until best friend comes, the bed sharing doesnt....................so that tends to keep the guys who think all their Christmas's came at once away, as their attention span doesnt stick around that long.

You have to be tough in todays dating world......as it just keeps getting colder and there are more and more sharks out there as more of us get damaged. Damaged people tend to become sharks, so it only keeps getting worse..............so people just end up having to get tougher and tougher to protect themselves.

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 22, 2009 6:01 AM

Hey Suzie273,

Yeah...that was me...though what makes you think it was tongue in cheek!!:))

I loved it, and so did heaps of other people; especially women, but someone obviously complained, because my profile was heaviliy edited and I was told it was unacceptable:))

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 21, 2009 11:05 PM

Hi Bob & Tidaldancer
Couldn't agree more. Bob (i think it was you) loved your tongue in cheek profile some time ago - you hit the nail right on the head - I have met the men you then described.
Sue

Posted by: suzie273 at October 21, 2009 10:05 PM

Hi All,

The thing about not wanting marriage or cohabitation is that (and only my belief) men and women tend to view it differently.

A woman may view a man not wanting that as being unable to commit and just wanting casual encounters.

Most guys I know immediately view a woman wanting the same as a perfect arrangement....come and go, have some sex, no committment, and do your own thing; but not all of us.

I think, for men, that could mostly be the case, but I think women (mostly) do want a commitment and monogomy....they just dont want a live in lover.

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 21, 2009 7:57 PM

In my experience one party always gets hurt in those casual no strings relationships, usually the one who invests more emotionally.

As for taking it further into a real relationship, I agree honesty is the key but normally there are enough signs (if read right) that tell you where you are heading. If he/she is not into it there is no point of sticking it out in the hope things might change, they wont!
Its better to move on and not to waste time hoping and deceiving yourself.

Posted by: tidaldancer at October 21, 2009 7:19 PM

Oney, it's always lovely to be wanted and I find that, that combined with me wanting to avoid hurting someone means I question my own decisions at times and stick around a little longer than necessary.
I'm now trusting my inner gut feel...but the questions still arise (can't always switch my brain off)
Ali

Posted by: ali1974 at October 21, 2009 6:46 PM

LMAO Bob!!! love your sayings!!!!
xo

Posted by: ali1974 at October 21, 2009 6:40 PM

Hahah Bob, you do crack me up.

Gotta go earn a dolla!!
Seeyez xo

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 21, 2009 8:46 AM

I am with you Bob. I am very upfront immediately, before even dating a guy that I am not interested in getting married or cohabiting with anyone. People then often assume I am looking for something casual, when I am not, I am looking for someone really special to me, my best friend and lover and it reallly isnt that important where I am going to start dropping my standards or my drawers left right and centre trying to find something, anything as I feel needy or lonely.

I have made the huge mistakes where I have wanted men I havent really wanted............not bad men, dont think I have dated actual bad guys, messed up ones, ones that just didnt work, but generally I have been lucky (barring one who thought bringing other women into the relationship would be fun, that one had to go).

Lots of people want a relationship for the wrong reasons...........mine, I know I have rejection issues so I really dont like being rejected........so I tend to stick in things a lot longer than I should and I look back and see that I should have ended it six months prior. I am now making sure I dont do that............as I am wasting far too much of my time with people I dont want but cant let go of.

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 21, 2009 5:28 AM

Hey Glitter,

I could have written this post....but you know what...prefer honesty over anything else. Might not be what you wanted, but you know you wanted it with the right person if they are open and honest to you....right?

Worse things can happen anyway...think about married names. Just think...if Claudia Schiffer were to marry Brains (from Thunderbirds) she'd be Claudia Schiffer-Brains!!

Bob:)))

Posted by: simplegame at October 20, 2009 11:14 PM

It's tricky when one of you wants more than the other, or one or the other of you doesn't know what they want yet. It is very uncomfortable when someone is into me and I'm not into them - how do you say that to them without hurting their feelings? There is no way, but honestly and with tact I guess and in person where possible.

Sometimes I don't know how I feel about taking it further, but then isn't that an answer in itself? Or does it take more time for some??

I've found when I push through that I'm not sure sort of feeling and into a relationship . . . I should have not probably embarked on it in the first place. I think we can see these things after the fact, but due to our lack of clarity at the time, it is so easy to 'convince' yourself that it's just normal uncertainty ie due to fear or something.

Then there are other times when you fall hook line and sinker into infatuation and GIRL, they are juz not that into you. That sux.

I'm not sure what love feels like anymore. Sort of like when someone dies and you start to panic that you are forgetting what they look like. Have I ever infact loved? Or were they just a series of me either being infatuated with them, or them being infatuated with me?? I am diverging a bit here. .

But now I think I will not be pushing past/through that uncertainty and will not move forward with a "date" until I am really sure and without having to "make them fit" as we have talked about on here before.

I would really like to feel a strong YES, that is the person I am willing to commit to, without those niggling red flags in the back of my mind. I would really hope that that person would have those authentic and 'certain' feelings about me also. I wouldn't want them to be anything other than sure.

Being single is actually nice in lots of ways (as many people have said). It is calm and gentle, with no strong emotions tugging at your chest, taking your focus away from other things that make you happy like hobbies, interests, friends, family etc. Not that we don't do those things when in a relationship. I certainly tend to do much less of the things that I really love in order to give up time and energy to be with my partner - and maybe therein lies the problem?

Thinking out loud really.

Glitter

Posted by: glitteringblue at October 20, 2009 10:33 PM

Hey guys,

Just make sure that the person you are dating wants that relationship with you!!:)))

I used to tell my ex years ago I would get home before 9....I never said I meant AM, not PM:))))....now THAT really does land you in the poo....women have no sense of humour!!

My ex brother in law made the mistake or coming home late one night to my younger sister, Sam. However, he was smart enough to stick his hat (lived in the country) on a stick....she belted it with a rolling pin....he would have been in a coma for a month if his head was still in it:))))))

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 20, 2009 9:22 PM

Hey Thyme62,

Not everyone wants to live together in a relationship...but I agree, the cards should be on the table upfront if thats what you want, not at some time in the future.

I have no intention of ever being married again...cohabitation is not on the agenda either; but it doesn't mean that I am incapable of a committed, monogomous relationship; but it would only be with someone special...I wont settle; and dont wish to be settled upon either.

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 19, 2009 6:51 PM

Hey Perthy,

What makes you think I'm miserable...you couldn't be further from the truth. Yeah, I went through a difficult time for a while...but not for the reasons you might be thinking. I have gone a long way to resolving those issues that made me miserable.

It doesn't change my attitude though...true love for someone is selfless...you give of yourself unconditionally. I might not have gotten exactly what I wanted, but I got the pleasure of knowing that I am capable of these feelings towards someone....and believe me; I had serious doubts.

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 19, 2009 6:14 PM

Well i would say bonus points for being able to communicate and being honest in what a partner truly wants in a relationship. Reality is everything starts off casual and if your not with them after a month then it wasn't meant to be. I say think about what they are seeking. I had two years with a partner that decided to tell me one day that he never wanted to live with me, nor did he love me and cant do relationships. So put the cards on the table as soon as you think this could work, a month of casual wont bring too much hurt if you cant do it..Two years on brings on alot of pain and hurt when one party hasn't been honest about his feelings. And when you think about it, how much damage does that do to the next relationship and causes you to become reluctant to commit yourself.

Posted by: thyme62 at October 18, 2009 10:58 PM

For me, time to go exclusive is when you reach that point where you know each other well enough to be sleeping together.

If you are casual dating, I dont think you should be bed hopping and seeing other people, just my view. To me, casual dating is being friends but open to something more, but also seeing other people with the same ideas in mind....which is great, as then something develops as its meant to and you know someone.

So exclusive for me, is when I find the guy I want to call when i see something funny over the other guys I know, the guy who I feel more emotionally bonded to etc.........the guy who has fitted in as one of my close friends but also makes me sizzle.....then exclusive is when we both come to the same place at hopefully the same time and want to go into a physical and emotional relationship and not see anyone else.

For me its pretty simple.............keeps all that complicated stuff out of it too and means you get to know someone. As yeh, this instant this and bedhopping society we have has been really damaging to relationships between men and women.

Posted by: onemoreoption37 at October 18, 2009 9:25 PM

Just go with the flow we can only structure our lives to a certain extent. The rest is taken care of by the universe, and by the choices we make.

And also remember that noone is a perfect fit to the other person.

Posted by: unknownauthor at October 18, 2009 2:23 PM

True love is sacrificing what you want anyway. What, you sound like a puppy Bob. Of course it's not, true love is admiring cherishing and loving that other person. Being true and honest with them and having just them for yourself. It's not sacrificing yourself, it's giving yourself freely an openly and enjoying the time spent with them.

Yikes, you are a misery at times, or come across that way. Buck up man and smell the roses !

Posted by: iaminperth at October 18, 2009 10:49 AM

If yu are having fun with no strings attached, then in my opinion it is not time to try to turn it into anything else.

Just keep having fun and see what happens. All this exclusivity and jumping into bed with anyone is causing heaps of problems. Life is more than the 'initial spark', you have to have something in common.

Posted by: iaminperth at October 17, 2009 8:51 PM

Well first up you must decide what you can bring to the relationship, if there is doubt or confusion probably best to keep it casual. If your heart wants more and your partner does not, only time will tell the outcome.
The next step is to ask yourself what do you want out of life..? be true to your feelings, and follow your heart.

FG

Posted by: feelgood76 at October 17, 2009 2:03 PM

Hey Guys,

What I (or you) want is irrelevant...if the other person doesn't want the same thing, then its all going to end in tears.

To me, if the other person is worth it, let them know your feelings, bt work at their pace. True love is sacrificing what you want for what they want anyway, so if you truly love that other person, nothing will never be a sacrifice to you

Bob

Posted by: simplegame at October 17, 2009 9:20 AM