RSVP Blog

Humans are the worst plage the planet has ever suffered, it is time we evolved to the point that we could see this, unfortunately, we have already reached the point of no return.

Posted by: shrinkingviolet0101 at November 21, 2009 10:57 PM

The bible was written as a guide for a bunch of nomads trying to live in a desert. It has nothing to do with today.(although most of the script has been adapted to coincide with the recent situation.) It's common sense and natural progression to breed. Modern society seems to follow the animal trait...find a mate, breed and move on to another mate. Some choose to find the security in coupling and remaining together till death. Let's hope the latter remains the popular choice.

Posted by: robsmith at November 7, 2009 11:24 PM

I agree with the basic tenet of the blog post: as a Christian, dating or even "being in a relationship" are not ends in themselves. These are steps along the journey to something greater -- namely marriage. As a Christian man I am not just looking to be "in a relationship" with a woman; I'm actually looking forward to *marrying* a woman and this obviously has implications about who and how I date. One such implication is that if I know that I can't or don't want to marry a particular woman then I don't really have any business dating her. I'm actually being unfair to her, stringing her along when I have no intention of committing to her in marriage.

Now obviously you have to be careful not to put the cart before the horse. It takes time before two people can work out whether they want to commit to one another in marriage and I certainly don't want to be heard to be pressuring people into this decision before they're ready. So there's an important place (particularly early on in the relationship) for "taking it easy", getting to know one another, enjoying one another's company etc without the pressure of worrying about marriage. BUT overarching all this, Christians who are dating should in the back of their minds be aware of the fact that dating or "being in a relationship" are not ends in themselves but are part of something bigger -- a step along the road to marriage. And at some stage you will need to get serious about the question of marriage. It's not really appropriate for Christians to be in an endless "holding pattern" in their relationships, not quite sure of where their relationship is at or indeed headed. At some stage you will be faced with the choice: Do we commit to a life together in marriage or do we go our separate ways?

Now there are both theological and practical reasons for all this. Marriage not only has very practical, real-world significance. For the Christian it also has a deeper underlying theological meaning. The Anglicans among us (although these are principles taken from the Bible so apply equally for all Christian traditions) might be familiar with the marriage service in the prayer book where three reasons for marriage are listed.

One of these reasons (as the initial blog post in this thread listed) is that marriage is the God-given context for procreating and raising children. Is it possible to have and raise children outside of marriage? Of course. Is it ideal? No. Now some people find themselves in the difficult circumstance raising children outside of marriage (be it through the death of a spouse as happened to my father when I was young, or divorce or having children outside of marriage in the first place etc) or in a loveless marriage and these people need all our love and support in doing a difficult job in trying circumstances. But this doesn't take away from the fact that one of the reasons marriage has been given to us by God is for the procreation and raising of children.

But that's not all marriage is about. A second reason God has ordained marriage is for sex. Marriage is the God-given context for the proper expression of His good gift of sex. Now to those who asked "where does the Bible say you have to marry?" the answer is it doesn't -- at least not in exactly those terms. As a Christian you are free to either marry or not marry. Both are valid, God-honouring lifestyle choices. But the Bible does say that sex (which is a good gift from God) is for marriage and that if you want to have sex you really ought to get married (1 Corinthians 7:1-2 is one of several passages). So that's one reason why Christians should get married. Unless you're called to a life of celibacy (and few of us are) then marriage is something you should be pursuing. Again, is it possible to have sex outside of marriage? Of course. Is it ideal? Well, no -- at least if you accept what God has to say about human sexuality in the Bible. But again it would be a mistake to think that sex is the only (or necessarily the primary) reason for marriage. There's obviously a lot more to marriage than sex.

A third reason that God ordained marriage is mutual companionship, help and comfort etc. Again is it possible to experience these in friendships and relationships outside of marriage? Yes, to an extent. But on the Christian understanding of marriage these are experienced in a fuller and deeper sense in marriage. For Christians marriage is a lifelong covenant in which the parties promise to commit themselves to one another, forsaking all others, for better or worse, for richer or poorer in sickness and in health.

And overarching these three reasons for marriage (which are both practical and theological) is something much deeper. The Bible says that God ordained marriage as a picture of the relationship between Christ and his people (the church) in a way that merely "being in a relationship" isn't (see eg Ephesians 5:23-32 and Revelation 19:6-10; for Old Testament parallels between God and Israel see Isaiah 54:5, and Hosea chapter 2 -- esp verses 14-20 but the idea is present throughout the whole chapter). When a man and a woman give themselves to one another unreservedly in marriage this is a picture (albeit an imperfect one) of the love and commitment Christ has for his people, whom he redeemed by laying down his life for them.

So for all of those reasons (and more) I'm looking forward to marriage. And when I'm dating, in the back of my mind is the view that I'm not just looking for a girlfriend but a future wife.

Posted by: bdtami at July 1, 2009 8:53 PM

Posted by: nomib at January 29, 2009 9:47 PM
Absolutely spot-on with all you write Nomib. Couldn't agree more.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at February 5, 2009 10:09 AM

so where does the Bible actually say you have to marry - it only says that it is best to have one partner (at a time). Marriage is an institution of religion, a tool churches use to regulate society and create social frameworks.

as for being fruitful and multiplying to fill the earth - should this not be read in the context of those times?

bearing in mind that the Book was written by humans - guided by God - but if we consider that we sin every day regardless of guidance - then how accurate is the actual word by word content of the Bible.

Posted by: nomib at January 29, 2009 9:47 PM

Posted by: stephen54 at December 27, 2008 4:37 PM - Just finished watching 'The Bucket List' - enjoy *everything* while you can. One never knows...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at December 28, 2008 10:02 PM

Well I've done my biological duty - One for me, one for her, and one for the world.

Thing is, it went so quickly. 10 years ago I was holding there hands crossing the road.

Jumping of - the Brighton jetty - into the water together.

And now there old enough to buy me a drink.

Enjoy them while you can - even if they drive you nuts at times.

Posted by: stephen54 at December 27, 2008 4:37 PM

Did anyone do a Midnight-Mass last night?

Posted by: heart2heart57 at December 25, 2008 2:24 PM

Posted by: forevernow1 at December 5, 2008 9:12 PM - Gulyas.... :)))

Posted by: heart2heart57 at December 5, 2008 9:59 PM

Posted by: heart2heart57 at December 3, 2008 9:38 PM
Hmmm... now there's a name that rings a bell... :)
Ummm Warning bells ? Christmas bells ?

Posted by: forevernow1 at December 5, 2008 9:12 PM

Posted by: amberlight58 at December 4, 2008 11:56
Thanks hun you too have a wonderful and safe christmas.
I love the idea of volunteering in shelters christmas day you know, years ago I was one on the receiving end of such humanity.. Its something thats very dear to my heart and that I also incorporate in my life and it does indeed make a difference to those being loved and those sharing love trust me...Blessings for christmas may all your dreams come true...
:)) Nel

Posted by: enchantinel at December 5, 2008 9:22 AM

Nel,
I hope your daughter has a wonderful and safe time in Japan. And you also have a lovely time in Tasmania.

Also Birds of Paradise, I
hope you daughter does too, going overseas to see her dad's family.

I have heard of people volunteering to prepare and serve lunch and dinner in homeless shelters and community centres on Christmas Day. I intend doing that once all of mine leave and maybe don't come home at Christmas.
Great way of helping to make others without loving families feel less lonely at Christmas and I think would feel good for the soul too.
Just a thought...

Yes, Nel I agree, being a mum (and thankfully for some dads too) means that our kids will always come first :)

Posted by: amberlight58 at December 4, 2008 11:56 AM

Posted by: forevernow1 at December 3, 2008 2:41 PM - Hmmm... now there's a name that rings a bell... :)

Posted by: heart2heart57 at December 3, 2008 9:38 PM

If we could shrink the Earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people.

With all existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look like this:

There would be:

57 Asians, 21 Europeans, 14 from the Western Hemisphere (North and South)
8 Africans.

51 would be female; 49 would be male.

70 would be non-whites, 30 white.

70 would be non-Christians; 30 Christian.

50% of the entire world's wealth would be in the hands of only 6 people
(and all 6 would be citizens of the U.S.)

80 would live in substandard housing.

70 would be unable to read.

50 would suffer from malnutrition.

1 would be near death; 1 would be near birth.

Only 1 would have a college education.

No one would own a computer.

Posted by: forevernow1 at December 3, 2008 2:41 PM

Posted by: birdsofparadise at December 1, 2008 10:25 PM

Thankyou for those lovely words of encouragement it helps to ease my mind. shes leaving tomorrow and we are off to tassi Monday, you too have a wonderfully blessed christmas hun xxx Nel

Posted by: enchantinel at December 2, 2008 2:50 PM

Hi Enchantinel....true we do for our kids first than ourselves. Wish your daughter would enjoyed her stayed in Japan, You don't have to worry so much of her while in Japan, it's a very safe place and Japanese people are very helpful and polite. I been there so many times, my sister married to Japanese and have 2 nephews. It's one of my hideout, so I got place to stay, I can travel in and out for maximum 1year without visa required I'm very familiar to walk around in Tokyo. I wish your girl won't miss out the most exciting places to see, the emperors temples, akihabara, ginza, disneyland and theme park.
Have a lovely spirit of xmas to you and your families.

Posted by: birdsofparadise at December 1, 2008 10:25 PM

Hi Floss1958...What a downunder adventures you got there, ohhh, makes me so envy, love to see exciting places that are new to me. Travelling is my weakness, so much I wanted to see the whole world before I barely unable to do strolling around. I do travelled a lots but mostly overseas not much in our vast land. This time I go ahead whatever it takes. Travelling habits of mine started since I was a child that transformed me into addiction an adventure playground. It gives me so much freedom and felt like touching the heaven and earth. I remember onetime the sign billboard I read,... it says Adventure first before Dementia. Soo true and I won't miss it while I still can...
Thank you for sharing me a tour list.

Posted by: birdsofparadise at December 1, 2008 10:05 PM

Floss 1958 that sounds magic! Good luck with the next trip!

Posted by: waterbombe at December 1, 2008 3:10 PM

Posted by: birdsofparadise at November 30, 2008 2:23 PM

Hey hun, my daughter too is off to Japan in 3 days I feel exactly like you described its a worrying time yet exciting for her. I have two little ones to take to tassi to their dad for christmas sometimes we do for our kids first dont we then ourselves last...
Hope you have a wonderful christmas be with you in spirit.
:))) Nel

Posted by: enchantinel at November 30, 2008 5:20 PM

Posted by: birdsofparadise at November 30, 2008 2:23 PM If you have a bucket list have a good look at it and do what you really want to do for yourself.

After years of cooking for Christmas and for days on end thereafter for a large extended family and the strays I would also invite, I decided a couple of years ago I was doing what I had to do (with my Mum’s blessing).

So off I headed 2 days before Christmas, with a suitcase full of books, having a few days at a 5 star hotel in Perth, salubrious Christmas lunch happily alone …. What bliss …. before I headed off in my hire car slowly cruising up to the west coast, popping in to see The Pinnacles, Kalbarri, Murchison River Gorge. And whatever place took my fancy for a night or two, on the way.

Until I finally reached Denham/Monkey Mia, for 10 days of heaven on a stick.

Every morning heading off as the sun was coming up to view all that the area had to offer spending hours on the road returning to Monkey Mia when it was far too hot, for the beautiful beaches and the dolphins for company, being just me.

This year much the same, but flying NW of Oz and this time I will see Ningaloo Reef or Broome.

Do we not all set out for out in our ‘younger years’ for marriage (with or without a piece of paper, religious or not) and children to call our own?

Sadly past multiplying but would not say no to the fruits of love and I can never say no I will not marry again but for now would just enjoy just the companionship and what love can bring.

And yes I do miss not continuing the family festive tradition but I will have plenty of time for that when I am older!

Posted by: floss1958 at November 30, 2008 5:10 PM

Xmas is around the corner, I'm thinking of family xmas tradition?,Yesterday I took my 14 yr old daughter to the airport, she's on holiday with her dad's relatives in overseas for 2 months period, my girl have itchy feet's like me, she travelled a lots spending both mum& dad overseas relatives. So, one of my bank card to handed over to her for any expenses may occurred during her overseas stay. she's money wise spenders and trust her for my accounts, her dad did same things, financially support her...Now I am thinking where should I gonna spend the festive season,...hmnn I have to browse at net for price discounts and variation. Spending another xmas alone same thing last few years back, Ok any idea?...

Posted by: birdsofparadise at November 30, 2008 2:23 PM

Posted by: ahappyending at November 27, 2008 10:31 AM Do I believe in the Tradition Family. Of course I do, I came from one and when it works well it is wonderful for all concerned.

I also agree with this comment although I wasn't so fortunate in being raised by a traditional family. If or when another partner enters my life, I would not be looking for a replacement father. My children already have a daddy... I would say that I'd prefer to embrace a male role model that would enhance their lives. Similarly, if a gentleman has children from a previous relationship then I would not be seeking to be a replacement mother.. of course my mothering instincts would be apparent, this goes without saying but instead of being a Traditional Family... perhaps Contemporary Family would be more fitting. Sharing responsibilities in a caring and loving environment would be beneficial for all. I'm not a religious person so apologies if I've infiltrated this blog but having good values, being openminded to difference, having patience and positivity then this would only nuture the Contemporary Family. I'm also not sure that I would want to get involved with someone who has never have children.. mabye short-sighted on my part.. but I would rather be involved with someone who knows how demanding it is to be good parent and what being a parent entails.

Posted by: smartsearcher at November 29, 2008 1:39 PM

Posted by: ahappyending at November 27, 2008 10:31 AM

On the rebound blog amberlight58 has given a very descriptive reading of what it was like for her and her siblings to live in a tradition family with both Mum and Dad present. Unfortunately her story is not unique and that is the reality for many children and the street kids of Australia are further proof of that.

Do I believe in the Tradition Family. Of course I do, I came from one and when it works well it is wonderful for all concerned.

Did I raise my child that way. Absolutely not. Apart from the fact her father ran for the hills when I became pregnant there were many things about him that precluded him from being a suitable marriage partner.

What I should have done is run for the hills myself, but I did not and stayed in Western Australia so that he could be part of his childs life.

He caused me immeasurable grief, 6 years in the family court and has been estranged from his daughter since she was 13.

Suffice to say if I had married him, my life would have been unbearable. My daughter would not have experienced what it was like to grow up with a stronge independent courageous capable woman......

She is the light of my life, beautiful, smart, intelligent...empathic, emotionally mature, loving, nurturing, courageous. She has now finished her 4th year of study of architecture at uwa, she one of the top students in her year. She is in a long term relationship, over two years. Her courage extends to her protecting herself from her abusive father, while attempting to renew her relationship with him......on her own terms.

I couldn't be prouder.

Colleen

Posted by: fifilafume at November 29, 2008 9:17 AM

Family planning...the best way to multiply is divide?!....and the best way to divide is square-root......1 for you, 2 for me. *** degree nisi of dissolution of marriage***...1 for you, 2 for me.....that is the square root asset settlement....

Posted by: birdsofparadise at November 29, 2008 4:41 AM

hmmmm, I have 2 boys, marriage broke up when the younger one was a baby. So I consider these boys as the something that was so very good that came out of the marriage and I would never hand them back...welll maybe when they give me the shits, but generllay no , I love them dearly. The older one is in the Army, and did 6 months in Iraq. He is now home but may be going back next year. The younger one is joining the Airforce, has his interview on monday. (don't ask why ther armed services, except as a way of gaining a career...as I am the daughter of a dutch immigrant , and my dad is anti war after growing up in Holland during WW2)

I do not want to get married again, but I do like being in a relationship, having that someone that is close to you...and cynics...not just for sex, but truly close as a lover and best friend....just my thoughts ...jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at November 28, 2008 10:22 PM

This is a perfect blog to wheel out the 'Alpha' theories again, the "need to spread seed", and give Religion a jolly good flogging. Can't wait to see what turns up next... :)

Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 28, 2008 8:53 PM

Posted by: ahappyending at November 28, 2008 6:13 PM

My RSVP name was brought about by a new friend who gave me the idea. Also, I have some friends who are very happily married with 2 young children who told me about their criteria, or rather 'her' criteria with her selection of partner. It was actually very amusing and I'm not sure I would be so rigid. She made a list with little tick boxes of all the qualities and attributes she wanted in a prospective husband and if there were any boxes unchecked, then the gentleman in question was rejected. I thought extremely harsh but it was a comical conversation - they are originally from Peru so perhaps a customary thing? Anyway, she found a man who filled her boxes (so to speak) and they appear to have a great marriage.

I am also happy with my life, beautiful girls, nice home, enjoyable job, live by the ocean... the list continues. I have no reason to be unhappy but of course if a gentleman came into my life that enjoyed my company, as I did his.. then my "smartsearching" days would come to an end hehe.

Posted by: smartsearcher at November 28, 2008 8:06 PM

2 amoebas overheard, "the best way to multiply is to divide".

Posted by: laughsandtalks at November 28, 2008 7:09 PM

Posted by: smartsearcher at November 27, 2008 11:21 PM
:0) I am so glad things have worked out for you and for your daughters. I may get back to you later if I would like to go further (as I am still holding my view). But I do understand everyones situation is different, so I am not sure if it is necessary. Probably unnecessary. If I would ever do so later, it is mainly for the purpose of bringing up more discussion threads only. And, I would like to say again: I am really glad for you that everyone is happy in your situation. Hope you will also find your own happiness very soon.
And by the way, why do you need to search smart? No need to reply if you dont feel like it. It is just I am a bit curious, that’s all. :0)
ahappyending

Posted by: ahappyending at November 28, 2008 6:13 PM

egernia at November 28, 2008 3:34 PM

Congratulations .. I hope it's all you could wish for and more :-)

Posted by: waternymph47 at November 28, 2008 4:39 PM

I'm getting married in 7 months time and it's definitely not because I want to fruitfully multiply. When I joined RSVP in 2006 it wasn't with the intent of finding a husband. I was enjoying dating again and meeting interesting and charming men. I just happened to meet someone who literally swept me off my feet. I'm marrying him because I love him and can't imagine my life without him.
xx4H

Posted by: egernia at November 28, 2008 3:34 PM

Genesis 1st book says...Go and multiply while GeneriCybernetics Family Planning says ...Go and divide ...

Posted by: birdsofparadise at November 28, 2008 1:12 PM

I had 2 children, 1 boy(now 28) 1 girl(now 31 and a mother of 1) and in hindsight it is a good thing I only had 2 since I ended up raising them alone.
As tough as it was I would not take back a minute of it and I now revel in my weekly opportunity to babysit my 1 yr old Grandson.

Actually I would have liked more kids but my Doctor told me I should have stopped at one child since he nearly lost me during the birth of my second child.
A twisted spine which tilts the pelvis makes it difficult to have a natural birth .. but I persevered and won!

I love kids so would be highly delighted to be in a relationship or marry again if the right man came along and if he just happened to have grown up kids and Grandkids to share with me ... Bonus!

I really don't think I could enter into a relationship with a man who has had no kids nor been in a marriage/relationship before. There would be a huge gap in understanding and commonality! There would also be a big gap in all those wonderful family get togethers we could be sharing in!

Posted by: waternymph47 at November 28, 2008 9:01 AM

Really trying to think where I stand on this one.

I think I am happy to have some great four year relationships (as that seems to be my sticking point where I call out at that point) rather than find one, get married etc.

I don't want to have children, but equally am not a casual dater, find it sucks my soul out.....so I love love and want love, but am not a one chaser and have no desire to procreate (seeing what the world is today and how a lot of people are, do I really want to bring more into it...not in my view).

So I am in the middle.........not looking for a husband but not into casual dating either.

Posted by: onlygoodguysneedapp at November 28, 2008 6:14 AM

Posted by: ahappyending at November 27, 2008 10:19 PM Wouldnt it be fairer for children to have loving parents, who can provide a loving family and guild the children together into the world? And sorry I dont want to offend anyone here, but I do have a view that a person, who puts his/her interests prior to his/her children, is kind of being selfish.

Therein lies the problem Ahappyending... if the parents are no longer loving and the children then witness arguments, discord and in extreme cases violence... surely for the children's sakes, it is better to walk away from a marriage mutually but both still play a part together in the raising of their children. I'm sure the majority of parents go into a union with the hope that their marriage will last especially if children come along - a lovely thought and my admiration goes to those that succeed. However, to be a successful parent you also have to be happy in yourself and environment as children are intuitive and sense when things are going wrong. It is far better for children to see their parents getting along as friends, knowing that they are loved by both parents and being nutured and raised in a happy home without tensions and arguments. As a single parent who still gets on with my daughters' father, they have the best of both worlds. Life in the suburbs with me and every other weekend on the farm with daddy - a perfect lifestyle for two very lucky girls.

Posted by: smartsearcher at November 27, 2008 11:21 PM

Posted by: enchantinel at November 27, 2008 7:39 PM
Yes, I've done my bit too Nel - one for me, one for him, and one for the country, just as our former treasurer suggested.

Not sure I would marry again either, tried it twice, didnt work out well ! But I am a bit like you in that I also believe that what is meant to be, will be.

Would certainly be nice to have the right someone "to have and to hold" though :))

Posted by: jenjen57 at November 27, 2008 10:31 PM

(Basically, if you don't see yourself spending the rest of your life with that person, you should not pursue them for any other reason. Do you agree with this?)

Yes, I totally agree. I hope I wont offend anyone here. But my view in this matter is a rigid one. Especially when there will be children involved. Wouldnt it be fairer for children to have loving parents, who can provide a loving family and guild the children together into the world? And sorry I dont want to offend anyone here, but I do have a view that a person, who puts his/her interests prior to his/her children, is kind of being selfish. But this is my view only. And I am not in a position to judge others, because I also know everyones situation is different.

(God, I think Id better run for cover now. :0))

Posted by: ahappyending at November 27, 2008 10:19 PM

hehe couldnt help myself, I have done my bit for fruitful multiplying,
2 for me 2 for mankind.
I am after the companionship, friendship, love and sharing, I really don't know if I would marry again. Perhaps perhaps not either way I do have faith that if its meant to be it will be.
:)) Nel

Posted by: enchantinel at November 27, 2008 7:39 PM