RSVP Blog
Depression in the Outback
Recent reports show that people living in rural regions are much more at risk of suffering depression than city-dwellers. Can you think of reasons why this is the case? Studies have also revealed that those living on the countryside are more likely to take up smoking and also drink more. The factors attributed include the harsh environments and drought, the economy, the general recession in rural communities, the closing of local services including banks and schools and the increased levels of unemployment.
In your experience, how true is this report to you? The serious nature of the issue in regional Australia is seeing the rise of suicide rates in men over the age of 25. Why do you think the numbers are alarmingly higher for males? What factors do you think contribute to this grave matter? Can you validate or debate any of this information?
Posted by October 28, 2008 3:50 PM
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I'd so like to write something to express my heartfelt message to those who may read this blog & who are feeling lost or lonely.
I'm not very good with expressing my feelings in words that could be meaningful to others. And most times during my life I have not spoken up when I wanted to say something.
I'm trying to express a message of hope to others that there is soo much good & happiness in life. And sometimes it can start with looking inside ourself & being gentle to ourself.
Take good care & live your dream... believe in yourself. H2H can say it much better than me so go back & read his messages as they are a shining light in troubled times.
SF. X X X
Posted by: softfeather at December 31, 2008 1:31 AM
May the 'man on the land' receive all the rain he desires and he turns out a 'bumper crop' this year...
Farmers - the back-bone of this great country...
T:)
Posted by: heart2heart57 at December 25, 2008 2:20 PM
heart2heart57 at December 20, 2008 1:09 PM - Thats a touching message H2H. I wish you a Merry christmas and wish Santa would grant all your wishes without you having to forgo any of your own wishes.
Merry Christams and may the new year bring in all peace and harmony in eacn and everyones lives.
Posted by: melrsvp at December 21, 2008 12:42 PM
Posted by heart2heart57 at December 20, 2008 1:09 PM ~
I wish to add *ditto* to H2H's heart felt message.
I hope everyone is able to find & trust their strength & faith & believe in their future.
I sincerely wish all inner peace & very *Gentle Blessings*.
Merry 'trismas H2H... SF
Posted by: softfeather at December 21, 2008 9:42 AM
To all those out there who are doing it tough and who may think the world has passed them by, my thoughts are with you. I wish you all a safe and joyous Christmas, and a wonderful New Year full of hope, peace, and resolution.
Posted by: heart2heart57 at December 20, 2008 1:09 PM
aqueousdb66 at November 15, 2008 11:33 AM - thank you for the link and information. Cheers
Annabelle
Posted by: annabelle1962 at November 16, 2008 7:58 PM
Istj @ Nov 9, 9:19PM - Cannot be bothered writing reams this morning (funnily enough in this blog) but you may find "http://www.grow.net.au" helpful. A recent nation-wide study of GROW conducted by Dr Lisabeth Finn at Curtin University in Western Australia found that GROW major advantage is that it offers a "real life" mini-community where people can develop new skills. The program is self supported rather than run by professionals. People helping themselves so to speak.
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at November 15, 2008 11:33 AM
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 8, 2008 1:03 AM
Posted by: friend at November 7, 2008 9:55 PM
Thank you so much for the wisdom!
Posted by: ahappyending at November 10, 2008 7:05 PM
This copied from an online article-
In 1988, psychologists Shelly Taylor and Jonathon Brown published an article making the somewhat disturbing claim that positive self-deception is a normal and beneficial part of most people’s everyday outlook. They suggested that average people hold cognitive biases in three key areas: a) viewing themselves in unrealistically positive terms; b) believing they have more control over their environment than they actually do; and c) holding views about the future that are more positive than the evidence can justify.
The typical person, it seems, depends on these happy delusions for the self-esteem needed to function through a normal day. It’s when the fantasies start to unravel that problems arise.
I recommend you have a read -
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=864#more-864
It puts an interesting perspective on the diabolical processes of our minds .
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at November 10, 2008 1:10 PM
istj54 at November 9, 2008 9:19 PM - i think perhaps your sister should find a way to keep in touch with her regularly as she is opening up to her and looks like she is desperate to get through this. so keeping her in touch either by email or phone is very important to let her know that there is someone who really cares about her. If this girl is in and around Melbourne and if i can be of any help, please let me know. once again, i am not a professional but from what i went through i know that i can be of help to someone.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 10, 2008 8:18 AM
Thank you melrsvp...th eyoung person lives some distance away though so regular talks are difficult...also family stuff make regular chats out too...it is actually my sister's friend's daughter I'm talking about...the girl has turned to her...and she doesn't know what to do for her...she is so against going back to a clinic but is sounding so sad and desperate...perhaps she can communicate by email...at least something...it is so sad...this girl appeared to have it all a few years ago, looks, brains, personality...now just darkness. My sister feels so helpless and was asking me what to do after spending all day with the girl...young lady...she is now nearly thirty....I had no answers except the usual...but the girl does not want professional help again.
Posted by: istj54 at November 9, 2008 9:19 PM
istj54 at November 9, 2008 6:33 PM - i would suggest them to talk to whomever they feel comfortable with. age doesnt matter in these situations. Take a week end off, go somewhere with the person with whom you can talk to. The person trying to help should be a good listener and keep their opinions to themselves. Let the affected person let out. The listener should help build the self confidence of the affected person first. it will be difficult when its time to go home. Believe me going to a place where you know hurt awaits will be like cutting open a raw wound, but that has to be done. There is no way you can shy away from that until you are ina position to keep away from that situation. But then this person would know that there is light at the end of the dark tunnel, the next day he/she can talk to that person with whom they feel comfortable with. Take them out for a walk or for some exercise classes. Slowly you will see improvement and then they will have to make decisions about their life. But this is a slow process and wont be an easy one for both the affected person and the listener. After some time, you can talk to them again about the "system".
Posted by: melrsvp at November 9, 2008 7:21 PM
waterbombe at November 7, 2008 12:19 AM - My observation of the changes is that they have come from 'clearing' of a number of aspects in his life.
On the issue of the counsellor, it is true that not all counsellors are as effective and it depends if one clicks with the other. My view is that people seeking counselling also have the right to ask what skills, experiences, qualifications the counsellor has and make informed decisions about seeing her/him. My suggestion always is that people need to try a counsellor and if it doesn't work to move to another. It is never ideal as people build connection and have to re-tell and this can be difficult however; trying a different counsellor may be the solution. I also think that gender is relevant and it may be that some click better with some one from their own gender or the opposite. It is about trying and not judging that it is not useful from the experience with one counsellor.
Some of the considerations for talking about going to a counsellor are that: talking to a professional estranger may be useful; having the space to share confidential stuff that one would normally not do to a friend/partner/relative; having the space to show the full gamet of frailty that we all have and tend to keep covered; to be able to develop strategies for managing different situations; to discuss some possible goals etc that could see potential changes; to have confined safety that is so important in talking; it's ok to talk to a professional stranger.
It would appear that anti-depressants do have side effects that's why it is important to have them monitored. This is hard when people get naturally tired to going to GP's, counsellors and continue to feel unwell. It is understood.
Thank you again for all the sharing and let's take care of our selves in this journey of life. Cheers
Annabelle
Posted by: annabelle1962 at November 9, 2008 6:53 PM
Some young people have had problems for a long, long time and have been through the "system" and taken the drugs and therapy and just can't go there again...they are stuck in family situations that, because of their depression, they can't leave...they might reach out and talk to someone older...maybe wiser...for a day ...tell them that they just cross roads without looking anymore...but then they have to go back home...tell me...how do you help them?...
Posted by: istj54 at November 9, 2008 6:33 PM
I joined an Art As Therapy group a couple years back when I was at a very low ebb.
One of the first things that jumped out at me was that there were women there much worse than I was. I at least was already practicing self help and opting to do so without medication .. which was obviously an even bigger problem for some of the group .. as they'd already become dependant on antidepressants!
The first blank piece of paper was a challenge but once I'd made the first effort it got easier. The last day of the course we did drumming and I found it great fun, very liberating! Many of the women had by then begun to open up and communicate more with one another. Women are often great at providing their own little self help group of friends!
I agree with ERAL's comment that many people are starved for physical touch and a massage .. or a simple hug from a friend will go a long way towards opening up the heart and letting a little warmth in!
Posted by: waternymph47 at November 9, 2008 5:37 PM
Posted by: friend at November 7, 2008 9:55 PM - and that's the wicked thing about Depression - it sneaks up from behind. Who's "down", and who's really suffering from Depression? Does it really matter? If each of us on this planet showed some compassion towards someone who's feeling down, for whatever reason, perhaps Depression would be just a word in a dictionary. But it isn't - it's very real. And it's deadly.
It starts as a "down", but there's no "up" anymore. It continues to spiral out of control, and sucks our very essence with it. And there's no be-all panacea for it - whatever works for you, go for it. Different things work for different people.
The magic is not within the cure, the magic is knowing that it's there. What we don't know is broken, we can't fix. When we, mankind as a whole, see it for what it really is and pay it due credence, it's stigma will vanish. It can be beaten. But it takes all of us to make that happen. The general acceptance and understanding is not quite there yet. But, like a blinding flash, it will eventuate.
Until then, we can be supportive of those around us who fall into its depths of despair. Knowing that there are people who care - and that care alone can stop the wheel from spinning, and guide us back up that slippery slope. Reach out and touch someone, or reach out and let ourselves be touched. Above all else - believe. Believe that tomorrow is another day. Believe that things will get better. And believe me, it works...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 8, 2008 1:03 AM
Posted by: friend at November 7, 2008 9:55 PM - Brilliant post Friend. That is how i experience depression and the people i interact with.
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at November 7, 2008 11:24 PM
What we all need to remember is that depression is not a personal deficit - it affects 1/3 of our population at some point in their life - look around you, maybe open up and express yourself, there may be someone who shares your feelings and needs to know that someone else feels the same way. My experience, as a person who has a history of depression and a genetic predisposition to it, is that I always try and be positive (no matter what level of a depressive state I am clinging to - trying to not go further down) is that I am quite sensitive to others who are negative. Not sensitive in a supportive way, but in a way that they have a significant impact on me and I try and avoid or repel them as I don't want them to take me further 'down' with them. It is not a personal thing. At the same time I am extremely supportive to someone that I sense is depressed, but I still haven't quite worked out if really nasty, negative people are actually 'depressed' or just covering up for insecurity. Most 'depressed' people I know and have met (and have met quite a few in my job and personal life) 'appear' to be the most helpful, friendly, resilient and positive people - until it gets really bad and they can't disguise it anymore. It wasn't until I couldn't disguise it anymore, and was an expert at that for years, that I had no choice but to uncoil myself from the foetal position and seek help. I have never allowed myself to get to that point again. Once I sense that my thoughts are not just fleeting, I am seeing a doctor without delay. I accept my predispostion, Don't want to go that far down again.
Posted by: friend at November 7, 2008 9:55 PM
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 7, 2008 8:17 PM
H2H, Yes thats all it takes Listening & watch for the signs.
This same mate pulled me back from the dark, I help the same way 18 months later when his wife walked after 15 years.
There is one thing l want to point out is that the blokes l work, we also spend alot off work time with, so it is a little easier to pick up the signs
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 7, 2008 9:00 PM
paule55 at November 7, 2008 1:27 PM - Hats off to you. I am stunned. Like sonny51 I too am sre that you will be blessed through your offer.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 7, 2008 8:35 PM
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 6, 2008 10:18 PM - Yep, spot-on OBD. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to listen. And sometimes it takes a guy to understand what a guy is going through - a Mars and Venus kinda thing. It doesn't really matter how a breakthrough is made, so long as it occurs.
No matter what you do, there'll always be knockers. You've managed to bring someone back from the beyond. That in itself is it's own reward, and I salute you :)
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 7, 2008 8:17 PM
One thing my father taught me was "if you don't have anything good to say then don't say anything at all".
On the other hand he also said, "toughen up, be a man and get a grip", when I was depressed. I really didn't think this helped at all.
Stats from beyond blue.
"Suicide still accounts for too many deaths in Australia. One death from suicide per year is too many. Nearly six people taking their own lives every day is unacceptable.
Suicide and depression don't necessarily go hand in hand. Thankfully, only a very small percentage of people with depression end up taking their lives. But untreated depression is a major risk factor for suicide.
Research shows depression rates are the same in country and city communities, but suicide rates are much higher among rural men. However, with the right treatment, most people recover from depression."
Now unless you can identify with some of the symptoms of depression then how will you ever know that someone suffers from the disease unless they come out and outright tell you.
Even GB says she totally hid it from everyone.
So if we can't identify it, we can't cure it and we don't know what triggers it. Then how the hell are we ever going to combat it?
One thing is for sure. This "in house" fighting to see who is the smartest sure as hell isn't going to lead to anyone coming out and saying they have a problem. I for one would be thinking there is no way I'm going to post on here. Not without being shot down at least anyways.
So really, somehow, we need to be encouraging people to come out and saying "I don't know if I have a problem but I'm sure not feeling all that good about myself".
So if someone out there is reading this and thinking to themselves, "I'm not feeling all that good", then come out and tell us your story. Maybe we can assist you to get some good help or advice.
Cheers
Rod
Posted by: tassiedude1 at November 7, 2008 7:45 PM
I so agree with Simon, you truly are one in a million Paul and I mean that sincerely. I am sure that someone will come your way who will need your helping hand and shoulder to lean on for a season.
I too believe that you will be richly blessed through your offer.
Posted by: sonny51 at November 7, 2008 6:33 PM
Outback, I know you feel affronted by something FB said, and also that you took quite a shellacking from Troy a while ago for being sensitive, which was Troy's mistake, because you are a genuinely sensitive decent guy. I wouldn't shellack you in a thousand years. I just think that FB was trying to make a point and was seriously misunderstood. You haven't met him and H2H has only been at a bloggers function with him for a couple of hours, along with many others, so he can't claim to know him. It's easy to be misunderstood on here. Some of the bloggers (not you) don't see how much they discriminate against someone who is negative...and what I'm trying to point out is that a "negative" person can be a depressed person. I've actually never heard you knock anyone, not even a negative person, and that is probably because you know that a negative person might be depresssed. That's all FB was trying to say imho.
Posted by: waterbombe at November 7, 2008 3:28 PM
Posted by: waterbombe at November 7, 2008 12:26 AM
WB, you're entitled to your opinion
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 7, 2008 2:22 PM
Wow Paul, you are a very admirable bloke.....if I had a hat I would take it off to you. I love sincerity and the whole stranger help thing.....just fantastic Paul
Good things will come to you !!!!
Posted by: simonyet at November 7, 2008 2:08 PM
Ode to the kill joy.
"She likes herself, yet others hate,
For that in herself she prizes;
And while she laughs at them, forgets
She is the thing that she despises."
-William Congreve
Posted by: femalepersuasion at November 7, 2008 2:07 PM
Colleen, yes, that is usually the case that someone on antidepressants begins to hear their partner again, and I'm sure he did that, but I knew this couple for 10 years by the time this happened and she was pretty manipulative, actually. That's just them but that's how it was with them. It was ironic that the drugs made him independent sexually instead of a frustrated mess, which is what he had feared. It was good outcome for both of them in my opinion.
H2H, hello...what are you saying...that everywhere I go and find you to invalidate you? Ha ha. I haven't been on the blogs for weeks due to having more absorbing things to do, some of them for money (i.e.work), and to be totally honest with you H2H and I hope this doesn't come as a huge shock, but you command a miniscule amount of my attention. When you get over that, could you consider the point I made ? How can you justify rejecting/chiding pople who are negative, when you advocate support for people who are depressed? Aren't you contradictory?
Posted by: waterbombe at November 7, 2008 1:40 PM
Hi there, have just come across all this by accident and have some very strong veiws on it,' IT 'being the awful diease called depression.
I'm at the end of my 2nd year with 'IT', 2 years ago was the very bottom, when' IT 'started I'm not sure.The days are now sunny but sometimes a few big grey clouds float past and they dont seem to rain as much as they used to.
Reading alot of the advice givin here, everyone is correct for the situation they have exprienced, and the situations vary as much as there are blades of grass on a footy oval.
I have lived in the Outback,worked on many stations and East Coast farms, have owned and run my own farms then at the age of 50 I went down like a head shot rabbit, lots of reasons,but it happened.
like i said I have alot of sunny days now and what I'm going to offer I do without any resivation at all. IF some one from the COUNTRY needs somewhere to go or stay awhile to get their head around things I offer my home (its not much but it mine) I live alone at Marlo. Victoria. we have excellent medical services at Orbost (12kms)
I'm not takin this lightly, I will check everyone thoughly because I dont want time waster's or free loaders, I'm after the genuine person in need, I have a car and assist with things here (but you must get here) I dont know how this is goin to work or how it is gunna get goin, but I was raised with "have a go" in me, so bugger it, lets have a go,,, Geez it might only work for one person and that would be great
Chin up to everyone and Hoo Roo,,paule55
Posted by: paule55 at November 7, 2008 1:27 PM
Ohh - and holiday to somewhere exciting .
"Travel broadens the mind." Inspiration, and distraction is whats needed.
Talking about it doesn't really work - well, at least for most of the people i know who have been depressed - the impression is often that the therapists/counselors have more problems than we do !
Actions are needed . ("Idle hands" and all that ....)
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at November 7, 2008 12:02 PM
I've unfortunately experienced this once this year already with a colleague taking is own life, and with another colleague attempting to last night. I've also had to respond to a family member some years ago taking their own life with a firearm.
It certainly takes courage to do it, I sure couldn't.
I'm also a country boy too. I've even had friends as young as 19 take their life and still have no idea why.
My heart goes out to the loved ones they leave behind, as I can asure anyone it's not an easy thing to deal with, even more so if you actually find the person or have to deal with it on behalf of the family.
Yes, it's tough living in the country but from personal experience I think the level is higher due to the lack of support in rural/regional areas.
I don't have any answers, or ideas on how to decrease if not stop the rate but, it would be great to know that there was always help there and more importantly when people think that it's their only option/avenue out that there is always support and help.
Posted by: decentandgenuine at November 7, 2008 11:45 AM
I guess it all depends on why the person is depressed. (chronic illness, a failed personal or business relationship, or socially dysfunctional/neurosis etc)
Exercise . Healthier body = healthier mind
The beach is a great environment too. Happy people, sunshine, blue water, salt air etc
Diet . You are what you eat . Food has a huge influence over mood. Mediterranean diet recommended. Red wine included.
Play. I recommend music ( avoid solitary activities like painting)... a drum class.
Massage. I think most people that are overly depressed are very touch starved.Nothing quite like a good back scratch/foot rub to ease the tension /mind.
Sex. Almost guaranteed to put a smile back on your face.
And turn off that damn idiot box (TV) !
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at November 7, 2008 10:58 AM
Posted by watebombe at November 7, 2008 12.19am: Or maybe once your friend was on antidepressents he was able to "hear" his wife instead of being wrapped up in his own depression. It just seems to me that his medication would have more likely altered his behaviour, not hers.
Colleen
Posted by: fifilafume at November 7, 2008 9:08 AM
Posted by: waterbombe at November 7, 2008 12:26 AM - I don't understand why everywhere you go, you invalidate everything I say. Suffice to say that I have met the guy, and this seems out of character to me.
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 7, 2008 8:12 AM
outbackdrifter at November 6, 2008 10:18 PM - mmmm Thanks! yep i am talking to someone now and yes it helps a lot! :-)
Posted by: melrsvp at November 7, 2008 6:33 AM
FB is trying to point out a contradiction here in which some of us engage without being aware of it. Those of us who try to look on the positive side all the time can react strongly against someone whom we think is negative. We criticise, patronise, are rude to or ignore someone who is negative. But how do we know that the negative person isn't depressed? If a depressed person and a negative person are the same thing (the same person, I mean), shouldn't we be kind to all people who are negative - in case they are actually depressed?
For example, you think FB is being negative, and in response, instead of being kind as you would ifyou knew he was negative due to depression, you have misunderstood/patronised him and insulted him ...OBD you insulted him by calling him a sideline sniper. What if FB himself is depressed, but doesn't recognise that yet? Wouldn't calling him a sideline sniper make him retreat even further into himself? H2H you encouraged him to do better and dip in and contribute more...maybe this is the best he can do, and your lack of recognition of that and your cheerful urging him to do the impossible has really hurt him.
I don't think FB is depressed, but what you guys said to him, without knowing whether he is or not, serves as a good example of his point. You can't urge that we be kind and supportive of all depressed people AND at the same time criticise/patronise someone for being negative.
What FB is saying is that the negative person is likely to be a depressed person. Or if not likely, then at least they COULD be depressed. That's the point I think you missed, OBD and H2H....
Posted by: waterbombe at November 7, 2008 12:26 AM
Thanks to the people who have spoken so openly about their struggle with depression. It really helps to know what helped you and how you got out of it. I had a boyfriend exactly like yours, Annabelle, he is a friend now but is still depressed 5 years later, and I am lost as to what to do. His GP told him he was clinically depressed. I did persuade him to go to counselling about 4 years ago but unfortunately his GP recommended a counsellor he didn't like and he didn't go back for a second session. Now he thinks counsellors are useless, and he won't take antidepressants because they reduce your libido, apparently. Actually I knew a guy who got his marriage back on track when he took them because his wife couldn't emotionally blackmail him using sex as the whip card any longer, because he didn't care too much if he got it or not. So over the 2 years he was on the drugs, his wife had to change tactics and she started to talk about things instead of manipulate. That was a very positive spin on antidepressants affecting your sex life.
But to get back to my first friend, if anyone has any ideas about what I could do to help him I would be very grateful.
Posted by: waterbombe at November 7, 2008 12:19 AM
Posted by: melrsvp at November 6, 2008 10:02 PM
The simple answer is NO, it will destroy you in the end.
If l could say one thing...........talk to someone just talk its that simple, I had one work mate that pick up what was going with me & made me talk, how did he do that ?????..........he just listened :)))))))
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 6, 2008 10:18 PM
glitteringblue at November 6, 2008 9:50 PM - hopefully so. no i dont think you are raving like a hippy. you are speaking the truth.
Mothers - mmmmmm i know thats the problem i'm starting to face. what will i do without mum! i talked about this counsellor friend for the second time ever about my depression last evening (Thanks to this blog). He was surprised! that he didnt know it before. He also advised me that i can get through anything if i dont let a dent to appear in my self confidence. so will get through when the time comes i hope. why bother now? but was a bit curious with ODB (There i go again) to know if it really works?
Posted by: melrsvp at November 6, 2008 10:17 PM
Hey Mel, just one last thing for tonight. And you brought it up before I could.
When you rely on something so heavily - such as your parents for support - it is a great idea to seek counselling in preparation for that day.
I am a HUGE huge fan of counselling. Every single cent is worth it - even when you feel you haven't got a cent to spare.
Ok, that's all - over n out, 10-4
Posted by: glitteringblue at November 6, 2008 10:12 PM
outbackdrifter at November 6, 2008 8:42 PM - Hi OBD, does that really help. cause lately i have been having this great fear of what i would do if any one of my parents pass away. They are not getting younger unfortunately. For now i dont let that thought come into my mind. i push it to the back of my mind with a force. i have started talking to a friend of mine who is a counsellor as well. But your idea of hiding .....
Posted by: melrsvp at November 6, 2008 10:02 PM
Mel ~ My god . . . what would we DO without our mothers?? I would be pushing up the daisies by now friend . . . and of course the love of our father cannot go unmentioned.
I am not a religious person, and I certainly don't begrudge another persons religious beliefs. For me though I found the depths of my inner spirituality through negotiating those times and now, with that depth, I help others - not as a paid job, and not even consciously, it just happens as a natural by-product.
Much to our MOEs disgust and horror - it is people like us that, from our spiritual experiences, will come to selflessly help others. No science, or statistics, or logic involved - just pure compassion and, well, yes, love for others as you have come to love yourself.
I do sound like a raving hippie - even to my own ears - but it's true, every word of it.
Mel - you will be/are an example for others.
Posted by: glitteringblue at November 6, 2008 9:50 PM
Hi GB, i never had trouble sleeping as well. But the remaining hours were awful. i couldnt cry or let tears fall. i still remember my mum's help. she didnt know how to deal with it either. but would simply sit there with me, talking, took time off her job. Then i slowly started talking to her about my failure, then she talked about about how i used be at school, about my studies and how i had trained and so on and repeately say that i was never a failure. She is a retired science teacher now. she would bring home work, and i would sit with her and do the work. Then i had my little boy to look after actually he was looked after by my parents too. both my mum and dad watched over me without leaving me by myself. Would say tough months. Luckily my dad was retired then. i started going for meditation classes once i gained confidence to step out of the house. Now that helped a lot! Helped me to get away from negative thoughts. Finally started getting my self confidence back. i got a job, did higher studies and have never looked back. yes i am totally different now. very happy in my job and what i have acheived over the years. Fortunately i havent had another episode yet. i have had my share of tough times since then. i have found that walking helps me gather my thoughts and relax. Then there is always mum and dad to chat to.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 6, 2008 9:20 PM
Posted by: glitteringblue at November 6, 2008 6:17 PM
Thats how it was for me, Go through the movements when you have to & hide the rest of the time...........don't let anyone close, they WILL see that things are not good & drink lots of grog, dont answer the phone, dont answer the door...........Just hide from the world, don't anyone close
:(((((((
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 6, 2008 8:42 PM
Aqueousdb66 @ 4:15 PM ~
Hi Aqua. Yep, I know, and a small part of me is relieved I didn't get the insomnia bit (thank god for small mercies).
When I was going through it, I didn't trust anyone with my secret illness - I totally hid mine behind a daily act and even that smile now in my mind hurts. No one would have suspected the despair agony behind the smile.
Only my mother knew and one other person and only because I would take the phone off the hook for days (when not at work) and close the curtains and cut off all communication - and those 2 people just figured it out
I didn't know for a long long time that it was called depression and, I totally agree, it is a very real illness (of the soul as well as of biochemistry)
I am very happy to say that my life is a 360o now, very happy, healthy, strong, active and social - I just had to let go of a lot of stuff from the past that was holding me back. Actually it was a "simplifying" and "streamlining" process. Just had to get honest with myself about me stuff - sounds so simple now . . .Anyhow, now I recognise danger times, times when I could be at risk and alter my lifestyle eg what I eat, who I hang out with etc etc to totally support myself. I also ask myself "what could this feeling be telling you" and try to listen to the answer and keep an open mind about the answer.
It wasn't really them I could/couldn't trust - it was me I didn't trust (at that time). Also, I felt and still feel that many people just don't know HOW to support you when you are in depression.
Posted by: glitteringblue at November 6, 2008 6:17 PM
Hopefully you will never know how lucky you are that a glass of champagne, a Lindt chocolate and a cat nap can set you to rights in the world. I would say that you've never had the misfortune to wrestle with The Dog . . . .When The Dog is in the House, all you want is a cat nap that never ends. Posted by: glitteringblue at November 6, 2008 12:23 AM
Glitter that is exactly how depression feels for some, for others insomnia and anxiety take over their lives. Depression, its causes and symptoms are complex and cannot be simplified to just negativity. Some of the world's greatest comedians have suffered from depression. Many withdraw or hide their illness with illicit drugs or alcohol. Depression is an illness just like MS or cancer. Recovery over the long term may mean managing your condition. Not everyone is supportive or understanding. You realise over time who you can trust.
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at November 6, 2008 4:15 PM
Tabata @ 10:46 PM ~ when the Black Dog is snapping at your heals, survival seems all too hard. That is when you need that lifeline to pull you through - and it can come in many forms, from children, to pets, parents, to friends, a cause, a mission, a stranger . . . even love.
Hopefully you will never know how lucky you are that a glass of champagne, a Lindt chocolate and a cat nap can set you to rights in the world. I would say that you've never had the misfortune to wrestle with The Dog . . . .When The Dog is in the House, all you want is a cat nap that never ends.
You bring up an interesting and valid point about technology. I feel like it's "Never alone, yet never SO alone". Technology cannot hold you tight and convey that human warmth can it? But I do know what you are saying. However, I think the "technology to reach out" thing is such a double edged sword and in fact can prevent people from actually reaching out to each other - in person, as humble human beings (like in the days of the Dance Halls on a Saturday night for example).
Raining cats & DOGS here on the Sunny Coast (oh the irony), but loving the rain.
Luv Glitter xox
Posted by: glitteringblue at November 6, 2008 12:23 AM
I am not sure, if I am qualified to comment here, I have never played with the thought of suicide, I was brought up to survive. Don't get me wrong, I do have the black dog visiting, but somehow I feel, there is always better tomorrow.
Having said that, my best girlfriend committed suicide, and I felt like an absolutely stupid and guilty by-stander, so maybe I do have an empathy and a weakness to help for people who are in this situation.
For me, a down is cured by a glass of champagne and a whole box of Lindt chocolates, a good sleep and everything is ok the next morning.
A male friend of mine, who suffers from frequent depressions tends to either pick up the phone to ring "Lifeline" or gets involved in a chat at: http://www.depnet.com.au/universe5/
So I think, through technology these days, you are not really ever alone, just need to reach out for help.
Posted by: tabata at November 5, 2008 10:46 PM
Posted by: friend at November 5, 2008 9:38 PM - I would say that the intro to this blog is pretty much asking people of what they see as some of the key aspects of Depression.
Words like 'In your experience...".. "What factors do you think...".. and "Can you validate or debate..." to me appear to be asking me what I think, and I have answered accordingly.
I don't profess in any way, shape or form to be a doctor or a psychologist. But I am a member of the human race that has eyes, ears and feelings. So I can only comment on what I have seen, heard and felt, and try to share that with others that may be going through similar experiences. If it sounds like 'amateur hour' and nothing becomes of it, what have I lost? Nothing. But it won't stop me from trying...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 5, 2008 10:40 PM
himagain at November 5, 2008 9:30 PM - Thank you for haring your experience. As a fellow soul who went through similar experience, i admire your inner strength and the ability to share.
I dont know anything about life in outback either. i have never even been there. but when i read posts, i get an idea of how lonely it can be and the difficulty in sharing. A visitng person is a good idea. But there again you have to develop that trust with that person to let out your thoughts. Can only hope and pray that some good comes out of blogs like this.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 5, 2008 10:11 PM
heart2heart57 at November 5, 2008 8:40 PM - Thank you for expressing your thoughts so gently. I should say i am guilty of being sad, upset and a bit angry even when i read through as i have made a habit of reading this blog before going to work. I didnot want to hurt anyone's feelings by my outburst. If in any way it has hurt anyone on this blog, i appologise. couldnt stay watching it. But H2H you have shown me that any opinion can be posted gently. Thank you.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 5, 2008 9:53 PM
I was told Lavender oil is very good to calm and sooth our nerve, so it may be helpful to depression?
But the using of it is better after consulting with a qualified GP, though. (My view only).
Posted by: ahappyending at November 5, 2008 9:39 PM
I cannot believe most of what I have read on here. This is not the place for so-be intellectuals to debate the cause and effect, or existence, of depression. Depression is not a choice. Not only are we not experiencing all of the joy and love that depressed people would love to feel and express, and this country is losing so much of its potential through this horrid disease/illness. Where is the sould of people who make it difficult for someone who is feeling down to not seek support and help anonymously - no matter where they seek it. Often the hardest thing is to put it out there. To have your biggest fears and concerns turned into an amateur intellectual debate is a sorry thing for the individuals and this nation. For those who are seeking assistance, don't give up reaching out. For those who don't understand it and are trying to, keep trying to understand as it is likely someone close to you will benefit from your new understanding. For the others, blog on another site or go to a coffee shop and have your intellectual debates over a late, short black, whatever it is that you choose to drink as you are not dealing with depression and can get out there and do that!
Posted by: friend at November 5, 2008 9:38 PM
I came close to suicide some years back. It was not long after divorce number two. At the time I felt lost, alone and useless. I felt like a complete failure. The hose was in the car and the engine running. There was one tiny spec of the "natural" Boyd left that spoke to me and made me realise that what I was doing was stupid and not the huge deal that I was thinking it was. I came to my senses........and stuffed up a perfectly good vacuume hose! What I experienced was complete lonliness and selfishness. I didn't spare a thought for my family; I was consumed by my own stuff and nothing else mattered. I believe communication, understanding and support are the key to preventing depression and suicide. The trick is in getting sufferers to put up their hand and ask for help. It's my guess that, in the outback, one may be surrounded by people suffering the same as you are. Like minded people with like minded views and very few positive attitudes. If one was to suffer depression in the outback I guess it may be very difficult to find a positive person to talk to; let alone a person that didn't already have a stack on their own plate; why would you want to become another burded on the people around you? You wouldn't; you'd keep quiet. I know very little about the specifics of the issue in the outback, however, this is my view. Perhaps a visiting support person from the city, a person one could talk to without feeling like a burden on them, would go a long way in helping these people; the backbones of Australia.
Posted by: himagain at November 5, 2008 9:30 PM
FB - What is going on mate? You're not usually like this. This blog is clearly about depression and people taking their own lives. Of course it's a negative subject - there's not really any way to put a positive spin on it.
But what we can do as a group is discuss it rationally and through our collective grievances show that it can be beaten. That a positive result can be achieved. That we may just reach out and touch someone and let them see that there's a way back from the brink. That they can see that there is help available, and that there's nothing weak or shameful about engaging that help.
I know if one says things in other blogs, it's very easy to get beaten up by knockers for being too negative. Those people just puff themselves up into being something they're not. You know that you're above that.
This blog has the chance to reach out touch people in a positive way. Maybe we can just give something back for a change. The only way forward to beating depression is awareness, vigilance, care and compassion. And to keep that ever important dialogue channel open.
Come on mate, dig in. I'm sure you have plenty you can contribute to this blog...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 5, 2008 8:40 PM
outbackdrifter at November 5, 2008 5:41 PM - Thank you OBD, i knew you would understand.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 5, 2008 8:22 PM
Posted by: melrsvp at November 5, 2008 8:57 AM
Mel, I totaly agree with what you are saying here & once again l aplogie for my outburst
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 5, 2008 5:41 PM
i dont know why there should be a discussion here about how "negative thinkers" will be treated in other blogs. This blog is about depression. i would expect an affected person (who has gone through depression or who knows someone who is going through a tough time or has lost someone) out there will have a natural tendency to see what is in it. so what does it matter when people post their own experiences and when people who care post their replies. Cant one blog be different to the other group of blogs i see on this site? cant we have a single blog which might help others instead of trying to put them down as negative thinkers? Cant we say as a group send them a message to those people who are contemplating self harm that there are people out there who have gone through this and got out of this succesfully? Why should every blog focus on only positive things? are we all 100% positive thinkers? I know there are organisations and groups to support "depressed people". what are those? they are also a group of people. so as a different group of people why cant we let some let out their thoughts? we may not have the required qualification, but we do have the experience. To be honest, I know i have got something out of this blog and it makes me sad to see this good topic degenerating into war of words.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 5, 2008 8:57 AM
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 5:03 PM
"Drone, would you like to point out to us who you think is whitewashing the issues here.
From what I can see people are dealing with a problem that is probably one of the hardest subjects to deal with, and in a mature, honest and compassionate manner.
Some people here are talking about their depression for the first time ever & they really don't need sidelines snipers like you"
It would be nice if you could read things in the context in which they were written, i.e., in this case, as a response to a particular post, rather than just seeing words on the screen that you don't like, and reacting like an attack dog.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 5, 2008 12:51 AM
istj, good point about those who are addicted to drugs, often the silent voice in the fight. l used to be someone who thought of people who have a drug addiction as those who brought it on themselves, their choice, etc etc, until a friend of mine had a brother od from heroin usage. Whilst l still think that in a small way now, l cetainly changed my thinking. He came from a solid loving family, good education, good career a relationship with a lovely woman, and yet he sought out drugs as a release, a way of coping that he couldn't verbalise to anyone.
Went AWOL for about six months and was found in Sydney, dead. My friend had to go and identify him, he died on her birthday, and the resultant letters and notes written in his somewhat lucid moments showed an internally twisted and harrowed man. Bloody sad story, and one that went along way to changing my thoughts on drug addicted people...........K
Posted by: auntykaz at November 5, 2008 12:21 AM
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 5:32 PM:
"I've sat and watched over last month as the blogs degenerate into slanging matches & one huge game of one-upmanship, but do not want to see that happen here on this one."
This is obviously a subject close to your heart - nothing wrong with that, and I commend you for caring about it.
Nevertheless, the blogs on here are not a support forum where everyone has to agree about everything and constantly validate each other. I see no reason why this particular blog should be an exception.
Of course, support can be part of the equation, but that is not the sole function of these blogs. If you look at the blog blurbs, they ask for opinions - they ask questions. In short, they invite debate about ideas, and not *just* expressions of feelings.
And that is good.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 5, 2008 12:09 AM
Posted by: sonny51 at November 2, 2008 6:25 PM:
"unless you tell someone you are suffering from depression or he/she is an exellent "face reader" no one knows. You may meet someone new and not know they are depressed unless they tell you so. Your last date could have been depressed for all you knew."
Precisely.
And that is exactly why I noted the irony of sympathy for the depressed on this particular blog.
On the other blogs, there is an orthodoxy of positive thought. Cross that line, and you are in the zone of being a "negative thinker". And you will be criticised for that very fact. (Of course, you can hold any sort of pie-in-the sky positive views, and that's considered socially acceptable.)
But what are depressed people? If anything, they are negative thinkers. That's why, anyone on the other blogs who doesn't explicitly say that they are depressed, but spews out their negative world-view will be tolerated for a moment or so, and then treated as either objects of pity, or objects of derision.
I get the message loud and clear from reading the blogs that you should not invite negative people into your life, because they will only bring you down (i.e., spread their disease). And, indeed, that is a mainstream message. But, by extension, that means that you shouldn't associate with depressed people, either, since they are negative thinkers.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 4, 2008 11:16 PM
'Taming the Black Dog (a guide to overcoming depression)' by Bev Aisbett is included in the resource library my organisation has put together for our GPs. It is a relatively simple guide to managing depression and provided a few 'lightbulb' moments for my daughter some years ago when she read it. I offer that for what it may be worth. If you know a young 'un who has signs of depression, this book may help them a little. It helped my daughter get a handle on what she was going through.
Posted by: ninaschen at November 4, 2008 7:46 PM
Chad, I was talking about you comment!
"maybe its all in your heads?"
As for. "men dont like men who enjoy looking at men its not normal"
I suppose you think women liking women is.
Posted by: chris261 at November 4, 2008 5:44 PM
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at November 3, 2008 4:13 PM ...I have acopy of that book too and am going to spend part of today re-reading it...to inspire me for the rest of this year...it's always hard at the end where I work...anyways equanimity to you ERAL:))
Posted by: istj54 at November 4, 2008 9:44 AM
Auntykaz...twenty-four years for me too since my very best friend and former lover dies...drog related...but how many addicts are in such excruciating pain that they find hard to share too.
Posted by: istj54 at November 4, 2008 9:41 AM
Chad,you sound like a hick when you write stuff like that......
We are all different in many ways, not that you have to accept that but darl, lighten up and see the reality of many.
Marcus, my experience of having a friend who committed suicide is similar to yours, and when you say that men are better at organising it (or something along those lines) l agree. My friend planned his own funeral, right down to the music to be played, and sent us all letters explaining to us his deep and dark thoughts, something he clearly could not do whilst alive.
Yes the lightning bolt did strike me also, as to his depression, but hindsight being what it is, we just didn't see it. He hid it well. We were all young and working, going out, getting married, absorbed in our own lives l guess. Still think of him often, as he was a very close friend of mine, and can't believe it has been 24 years..............K
Posted by: auntykaz at November 3, 2008 11:05 PM
Posted by: chad1958 at November 3, 2008 8:17 PM - For those who have lost someone "connecting hoses to their exhausts" the "so no cigar" comment might be a tad painful.
If you're interested in the subject, there's a lot of good websites out there that help explain the mental and physical attributes of depression, bi-polar disorder and anxiety.
Here in Australia, 1 in 5 (20%) of the population suffers some form or depression in their lifetime. Some can deal with it and get over it on their own. Others seek help and can overcome it through a mix of counselling, prescription drugs and self-help and self-development.
For some, help is not readily available. In fact, they may not even know that they are seriously depressed. Left unchecked, this can ultimately lead to suicide.
There is an alarming trend towards rural males taking their own lives.
Any advice you could offer would be much appreciated.
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 3, 2008 10:28 PM
chad1958 at November 3, 2008 8:17 PM - Please go through the following article
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24393436-661,00.html
Posted by: melrsvp at November 3, 2008 9:01 PM
Posted by: chad1958 at November 2, 2008 6:53 PM - See http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=89 for a definition...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at November 3, 2008 8:22 PM
hi sonny thanks for your educated insight but methinks if that was even half true 50% of australians would be connecting hoses to their exhausts.so no cigar mate and cris what dont you get? men dont like men who enjoy looking at men its not normal
Posted by: chad1958 at November 3, 2008 8:17 PM
Marcus, I couldn't agree more. My guess is sexuality and gender issues play a big part in teen suicide and depression.
It's ok for a woman to like women and mostly accepted for a woman to dress like a man. But for a guy to like men is still considered wrong by many and for those who are Transgender or Transexual they are considered freaks or weirdos by the many who don't understand
maybe its all in your heads?
Posted by: chad1958 at November 2, 2008 6:53 PM
Are you trying to be funny?
Seriously, that is the sort of comment that makes it hard for people to seek help.
The sooner we stamp it out the better.
Chris
Posted by: chris261 at November 3, 2008 5:53 PM
I thought it all was to do with Country and Western music and some sort of isolation theory......
Posted by: simonyet at November 3, 2008 5:09 PM
I recall reading in one of the conversations between Howard Cutler and the Tenzin Gyatso ( renamed the Dalai Lama) in the "Arytof Happiness", that the fundamental difference between western and eastern psychology is that, the western (scientific) opinion is that 'unhappiness' is the natural state of the mind, and that they only attempt to prevent chronic states of unhappiness ( ie suicidal, homicidal,...) via chemical and psychoanalytic treatments ; whereas that the eastern practitioners (spiritual) believe that the natural state is actually one of happiness, and they try to return a person to that state via meditation, diet, and compassionate acts.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at November 3, 2008 4:13 PM
Hi all, did anyone have a look at page 3 of the AGE. There is an interesting article on "Raisin consiousness pits meditation against depressice spiral" an interesting one.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 3, 2008 3:46 PM
Posted by: bobs50 at November 3, 2008 2:00 PM
Posted by: bob50s at November 3, 2008 12:45 PM
Well well it the Bob & Bob Show & they both have hidden profile surprise surprise :)))))))
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 3, 2008 2:44 PM
Posted by: bob50s at November 3, 2008 12:45 PM
I'm agreed with you outbakcmartyr is sweetness and marcus can travel with him to find new lizards?
Posted by: bobs50 at November 3, 2008 2:00 PM
Posted by: outbackmartyr at November 3, 2008 9:00 AM
OBD, your great image of friendliness, niceness, sweetness and helpfulness, built up so hard, will win you a lot of hearts, especially contrasting so much with puppets. Why not let Marcus have a break? You are the beloved sweetheart now and Marcus has made the best effort to be the much less liked here. Wouldn’t his effort make you feel good and appreciated?
Posted by: bob50s at November 3, 2008 12:45 PM
Posted by: chad1958 at November 2, 2008 6:53 PM
Some causes of depression include:
Lifestyle factors such as stress, nutrition, sleep and exercise
Genetic predisposition
Personality
Traumatic event/s such as losing a loved one
Medical conditions including hormonal disorders
Medications/Drugs
Lifestyle factors
Many of the unhealthy lifestyle habits that contribute to illnesses such as heart disease can also trigger anxiety & depression. High levels of stress or anxiety combined with poor eating and sleeping habits, and no exercise for prolonged periods may be a significant factor in some people’s experience of depression.
Although not normally associated with depression, nutritional deficiencies (particularly deficiencies in some of the 'B' group vitamins), intolerance to foods, additives and some chemicals may also be a contributing factor in depression for some people.
Genetic predisposition
There is strong growing evidence that genes can be a risk factor for developing depression therefore increasing the likelihood that severe environmental stresses may precipitate the onset of depression. Some personality traits, such as a propensity for high anxiety levels, may also be linked with genes.
Personality
There appears to be a link with certain personality characteristics and depression. According to Gordon Parker and The Black Dog Institute, a person who exhibits one or more of the following, may be more at risk of depression.
experiences high levels of anxiety, is a ‘worrier’ or is irritable
is shy or reserved
is self-critical or has low self-worth
is hypersensitive
is a perfectionist
has a self focused style
Traumatic events
The natural grief we feel at the death of a loved one, or the breakdown of a marriage or other relationship is a healthy reaction to a stressful life event, and sadness/anxiety in these circumstances may be normal. If the grief however is severe and continues beyond a reasonable time it may develop into clinical depression.
Medical conditions
If an illness or medical condition is life threatening, disabling or significantly affects lifestyle in a negative way, there is a possibility that depression may occur as a result of having to deal with it emotionally. However, there are also some illnesses that are known to cause depression such as some cancers.
The hormonal changes that occur naturally throughout life are common igniters of anxiety or depression. The hormonal changes at puberty, during pregnancy, childbirth and menopause may cause symptoms of depression. Illnesses that affect hormones such as Addison's disease and Cushing's disease can also trigger depression.
Illnesses that are more likely to be associated with or who present with depression include: AIDS, rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, influenza, thyroid imbalance, Ross River fever, viral pneumonia, neurological disorders, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, sleep apnoea, and stroke.
Medications/Drugs
Symptoms may take some time before they are identified as depression rather than just a rough patch and changes in medication or illicit drug taking are often overlooked when considering factors that may be causes contributing to the depression.
It is very important to discuss any medication or drugs you are taking when discussing symptoms or causes of depression and anxiety with a healthcare professional so you can work together to reduce the symptoms as quickly and as safely as possible.
Some people experience symptoms of depression when they start taking a new medication or when stopping a medication. Taking illegal drugs is one of the common causes of depressive symptoms.
Depression is easier to treat the earlier it is detected and there may also be other explanations to causes of your depression or anxiety which is why a proper assessment by a doctor is important.
Posted by: sonny51 at November 3, 2008 10:51 AM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at November 2, 2008 6:19 PM
Hmmmmm outbackmartyr, yes that's a fair label for me and I would wear it with pride.
Marcus I've been called a lot worse than problem will be in the future.
You have a great week :))))
Posted by: outbackmartyr at November 3, 2008 9:00 AM
featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:17 PM - "People will deal with depressed people only if they have to... for example, if they are close family or friends. Otherwise, the immediate impulse seems to be one of running for the hills, in case some terrible contagion is communicated to them."
I will share my experience which actually demonstrate the opposite to your comment. I started dating a man with a wonderful heart, and generosity of spirit that I had not met and there was mutual interest/attraction. Over time the relationship grew and was very comfortable. I started observing personality changes that I could not understand initially and he did not explain or share. In my work I have experience in counselling and it did not take much for me to notice, but give credit to time and not jumping to conclusions. Aware that work should not cloud my personal space. I did bring up the subject eventually and openly attempted to talk to no avail. The relationship changed and I saw myself struggling to come to terms with the values and positive strengths that were so attactive and appealing for me on one hand, but other areas so isolating for me. I was a witness to the way his life was and saw the pain and anguish. We eventually drifted apart not because I wanted to, but because he could not see how my presence would be of any use in his life.
These days, I am very pleased to know that there have been shifts in his life and I think he is better off as a result. The changes initiated have acted as a catalyst to getting 'happy hormones' back into his mental health. We have remained good friends, because I make contact and break his preferred pattern of reclusion which I know is so damaging to mental health and well being. On reflection I trully felt blocked from his life and yet when I am in his company there is a real sense of mutual enjoyment of each other's company. I also appreciate that when one is depressed there is limited to no room to see outside themselves and therefore unwittingly cause pain to those who are closest.
My point is that not everyone runs away from someone suffering from depression ... there are such strong feelings of powerlessness that one is driven away or some people have to do it to survive. I think on this issue being in a dating relationship is different to being in a marriage ... part of the solution, in my view, is that there needs to be more support systems in the community that are accessible to the person who is suffering from depression and to those close to them who may need the support. On this point by accessible I mean that everyone can get to ... financial issues are huge for some people where they have to pay to access counselling, and therefore not able to get to.
Thank you all for the wonderful reflections. Enjoy your evening.
Annabelle
Posted by: annabelle1962 at November 2, 2008 8:41 PM
hello everyone can any of you learned people describe what depression really is? ive been married twice and been shafted for 2 houses but i wouldnt be dead for quids life is great . maybe its all in your heads?
Posted by: chad1958 at November 2, 2008 6:53 PM
warmglo at November 1, 2008 4:58 PM - Thank you for the suggestion. I didnt know that about the pets! i just immersed myself in higher studies, books and research.
featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:17 PM - "People will deal with depressed people only if they have to... for example, if they are close family or friends. Otherwise, the immediate impulse seems to be one of running for the hills"
I think you are wrong FB. becasue any one who has gone through depression and come out of it will never say no to a second person if given a chance. Personally if i get a chance to see anyone who is going through tough time, i wouldnot think twice to help them through it. i feel that we have more caring people out there to extend a hand of support.
Posted by: melrsvp at November 2, 2008 6:48 PM
Lulu ~ Friend. I agree. The world is full of amazing and compassionate souls. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it when you are alone in your darkness and isolation, when you are thinking "is this all there is? Is this what my life has come to? Is this what I have to wake up to every morning, another day of pain"?
The way I see it, is if you can hold on, take care of your physical body as much as possible in terms of food, sleep, exercise, bathing - you know, the basics, as if you were your own child - in time, and it feels like it's a lifetime, you start to notice beauty again, enjoy music again, socialise more, make yourself look more attractive, until one day you realise - I am okay now and I will never go back to that dark, alone place. This is where the compassion come from and the understanding.
There is not a lot you can do for someone who is in the dark - just listen and be a beckon of light so they can remember how to shine, when they look at you. You cannot make them better by being anything other than happy and your best. Sometimes it is just hanging out together without even talking that helps - a walk together in silence. A dvd together, a shared meal. It is in our humanity that we witness another's experience and by witnessing it, helps them on some level. My heart bleeds for the people that are currently going through this - but they have to know, that one day, some day, they WILL feel happy again, they just have to hold on - sometimes with their fingernails and teeth.
Nature is a great healer. Spend time in the peace and beauty of nature - for me this was one of the great healers - and don't try to rush to "get better" as it will happen ever so gradually - like a cut healing
Have a lovely Sunday night Everyone (Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata playing in the background : ))
Luv Glitter XO
Posted by: glitteringblue at November 2, 2008 6:31 PM
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:17 PM
"People will deal with depressed people only if they have to..."
unless you tell someone you are suffering from depression or he/she is an exellent "face reader" no one knows. You may meet someone new and not know they are depressed unless they tell you so. Your last date could have been depressed for all you knew.
One hint...they eyes will show you :)
Posted by: sonny51 at November 2, 2008 6:25 PM
My experience is RSVP only pulls posts if there are complaints from bloggers. I've usually been able to succesfully resubmit contentious ones after a change of moderator. It's possible to be all sorts of things here but not libellous or slanderous. If people make particular claims about their experiences or ability they ought to expect comment and examination. I appreciate OBD's diverse contributions here, especially the horticultural ones, and have a smile sometimes at the thought he could rename as OutbackMartyr.
Chris.
Men have a genetic predisposition to certain types of illness and are much better at the practical details of organising their own deaths. Blokes suicide at 4 times the rate of women in Australia and aboriginal men at 4 times the rate again of other males.
Mate of mine car-gassed himself 20 years ago because he had some major external stress (he was being stood over) and issues with his own sexuality. He had come from a macho, somewhat homophobic rural background and stayed in the closet. He sometimes worked as my racecar mechanic. We dated girls together as teenagers then he lost interest. It wasn't until he was gone that I had the lightning bolt insight into his homosexuality.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at November 2, 2008 6:19 PM
Why ?? Not the manly thing to do, blokes don't do that sort of stuff, etc etc. Quite sad really that men do not have that outlet. Posted by: auntykaz at November 2, 2008 4:12 PM
I think homophobia has a large part in it too.
It's like the guy thinks "I can't be upset in front of my mates. They'll think I'm a poof!"
So in a typical boganist macho bullshit style they go with the term "Harden Up!"
Until one day when they give up and his mates go "I didn't know anything was wrong! Did you?"
I know that only too well esp. where isolation is concerned and know that in rural areas it seams to be the norm for men to be all tough and manly only to give in.
Having worked in a female dominated industry for over 10 years the traits of those female work mates has rubbed off on me but I find I can talk to people very easily about how I feel. I just have to pick and choose and it usually comes down to them being female. I even go as far as selecting female Drs and Psychologists because I can communicate with women at great ease but when talking to most males just in general I feel like bashing my head against the wall.
I guess that's where I am different.
Posted by: chris261 at November 2, 2008 5:59 PM
How would the woman chose between these guys who all have appealing profiles?
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 3:30 PM
Well if you go on what most women seam to say they would get to know the guy.
But then this is a dating site where the emphisis is primarily on photos as the 1st point of contact. Maybe I'm talking to the wrong women I don't know.
All in all I think alot of men and women are very shallow.
I know someone who described James Packer as having a face like a dropped pie and that it's his money that got him the girl.
I don't know him but he could be a great guy who just happens to be loaded.
At then end of the day if I'm on my own I can't do much about it other then hope and try to meet someone on another day. What counts in the mean time is that I'm alive, pretty healthy and have a well paid job.
Posted by: chris261 at November 2, 2008 5:36 PM
Drone let me tell you something about this blog, I've seen more compassion integrity and honesty here, then I have ever seen anywhere else on this site, real people talking about their darkest fears and for the first time ever sometimes, I've seen more good done here in one week then this site will ever do.
I've sat and watched over last month as the blogs degenerate into slanging matches & one huge game of one-upmanship, but do not want to see that happen here on this one.
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 5:32 PM
Posted by: auntykaz at November 2, 2008 4:42 PM:
"That depression has been beaten by whoever is a good thing and should be positively commented on, because it is not an easy thing to conquer for some. To have done that IS important."
OK, fair point.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 5:26 PM
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 4:39 PM :
' "People will deal with depressed people only if they have to... for example, if they are close family or friends. Otherwise, the immediate impulse seems to be one of running for the hills"
That may be your immediate impulse But l know its not everyone else's.
You will just never get it will you.'
Well, I lived in a sharehouse for 5 years with a guy who was quite paranoid, and depressed, and (occasionally) suicidal. I imagine there have been significant stretches of my life where I would have been diagnosable for depression. A close friend of mine had periods where she was suicidal, but thankfully, is now in much better shape, married, with a young boy.
So it's not that I lack understanding or sympathy for people who have to deal with depression. It's just that it has struck me that it is not uncommon on the blogs for people to be quite quick to jump on someone for what they see as indulging in "negative" thinking, and indeed, seem to have an aversion for people they categorise in that way. So it strikes me that this place wouldn't be particularly depression-friendly, except for the times when depression is being explicitly discussed.
Now, of course, that's my impression alone, and whether it's true or not is a matter for debate, I suppose.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 5:14 PM
Hi Softfeather
Funny isn't it I can blurt out all the rest of my life stuff on here and yet when it comes to this topic I feel a little reluctant to share.
Chris
The first time I had depression. It was the night after I spent the day scuba diving.
My life was pretty good up until that point. I had a girlfriend and lead a fairly active lifestyle. I guess I was a fairly reckless sort of a guy. I never thought too much how I impacted on people or the things around me. I wasn't overly spiritual nor considered other peoples feelings.
I woke at about midnight with this intense fear/anxiety. At first I thought I had a case of the bends. Unfortunately it wasn't so. And unfortunately it didn't go away either. It stayed with me for nine months and just kept getting worse. In the end it broke my spirit, my strength and I felt defeated. I even went for a couple of those long drives in the car, tears streaming and not intending to return.
Thank god I didn't do it. Actually thank myself really I don't think god had much to do with it.
Anyway I tried counselling and visiting doctors but nothing seemed to work. I just couldn't snap out of it. I knew I had to do something otherwise it was going to destroy me. I started studying every piece of literature I could get my hands on. I thought it was a lack of thyroxine and when I found out it wasn't I was devastated yet again. In the end I managed to get into see the psychiatrist. I couldn't believe it, I wanted to blurt out all this stuff to him but he just wasn't interested. He just gave me a prescription for Prozac 20 and sent me on my way. Not even a follow up visit.
Now I don't know if it was the drugs or the fact that I decided to make life changes. But basically I sold everything, bought a panel van and went surfing. No direction, no time limit and no destination. When I got sick of staying at one particular place I just left and headed for another. I picked up odd jobs here and there and pretty much just survived. As long as you have food in your stomach then nothing else mattered.
Then one day I found that I no longer felt the need to take the medication and it kinda just slowly went away. It never faded completely and even now I still think about it all the time.
When I got back to Tassie it happened again. This time was so much worse only because I thought I was truly stuffed and I was never going to be able to get rid of this thing. Once again it stopped me in my tracks. Couldn't work, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat.
Back to the Dr, back on the meds and back to making more changes. This time I didn't want to run away. This time instead I thought I will try to help myself by helping others. I started to look after disabled people and fortunately for me I could play a little guitar and sing a little so I just started to blurt out to everyone in song how miserable I had been. All those poor people that had to listen to that stuff, still do. I changed my attitude becoming more peaceful even now if I see an ant on the footpath I will step around. Mind you I still have so much left to learn and kick myself those times when I hurt someone or something.
Anyway I don't know how my story would help anyone. I don't have any answers. I think sometimes the answer is not to ask the question in the first place. All I know is that I didn't give up and that was nine years ago. To this day I touch wood and hope that it doesn't happen to me again and spend each day trying to be a little better than the last. It doesn't alway work but I try.
Good Luck
Rod
Posted by: tassiedude1 at November 2, 2008 5:14 PM
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:17 PM
"White-washing issues isn't being compassionate. Nor is it being kind"
Drone, would you like to point out to us who you think is whitewashing the issues here.
From what I can see people are dealing with a problem that is probably one of the hardest subjects to deal with, and in a mature, honest and compassionate manner.
Some people here are talking about their depression for the first time ever & they really don't need sidelines snipers like you
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 5:03 PM
Love that Peter Gabriel song ..I often play it in the car.. Posted by: chris261 at November 2, 2008 1:32 PM
And ...
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:17 PM
"People will deal with depressed people only if they have to..."
...that's not my experience at all. The world has many amazing compassionate caring people ...
Posted by: marylulu at November 2, 2008 4:43 PM
Hmmmmm thanks for that FB.
On one of your other points l see nothing wrong with sharing ideas / points of view regarding depression and its associated issues. Particularly if they have had a positive outcome for someone.
That depression has been beaten by whoever is a good thing and should be positively commented on, because it is not an easy thing to conquer for some. To have done that IS important.
Of course, there is a long way way to go, and that is why we now have organisations such as beyondblue to assist people in some way if they want to seek it.
No one wants to suffer from depression in any form but the reality is it is here and always will be. How we deal with it is important, if we can..............K
Posted by: auntykaz at November 2, 2008 4:42 PM
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:17 PM
"People will deal with depressed people only if they have to... for example, if they are close family or friends. Otherwise, the immediate impulse seems to be one of running for the hills"
That may be your immediate impulse But l know its not everyone else's.
You will just never get it will you
Sorry to everyone else here for my outburst
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 4:39 PM
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 4:23 PM:
Well, I disagree that I said that, but I suppose there is no point arguing about the content of something that no longer exists.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:38 PM
Posted by: auntykaz at November 2, 2008 4:12 PM:
No, this has to do with another post I made that was removed by the mods.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:26 PM
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 3:34 PM
"I don't believe I suggested that anyone was lying or faking stories".
Well drone you did suggest that and I found it very offensive.
And so did RSVP, so they pulled your post.
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 4:23 PM
Posted by: softfeather at November 2, 2008 4:04 PM:
White-washing issues isn't being compassionate. Nor is it being kind.
People will deal with depressed people only if they have to... for example, if they are close family or friends. Otherwise, the immediate impulse seems to be one of running for the hills, in case some terrible contagion is communicated to them. I'm not setting myself up as some sort of shining exception to this, either.
As I see it, we have a long way to go. If our attitude is one of exceptionless self-congratulation and "encouragement", then we will think we are already there.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 4:17 PM
Posted by: tassiedude1 at November 2, 2008 3:04 PM
Rod, thats the best news I have heard all weekend, lm really happy to hear that :)))
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 4:14 PM
Chris, from viewing your profile and reading what you have written here there are a few things that l think l am in going to comment on.
1. Women, for whatever reason, usually find it easier to connect verbally with their female friends on many levels. Particularly their close friends. Men (generally) are not so able to do this.....Why ?? Not the manly thing to do, blokes don't do that sort of stuff, etc etc. Quite sad really that men do not have that outlet.
You have a very expressive way of writing, good for you, and yeah, there is NOTHING wrong with going to a salon for anything.....Shows that you like to look after yourself if nothing else.
As l have said before, inner strength is very important to how we view ourselves. It is nothing that can be seen by others, just a core feeling of our sense of self.
Good luck, fella.
SF and OBD, l think the confusion re featherlessbiped may have stemmed from a post l made on Friday where l didn't express myself quite as l wanted to.........Sorry if it has caused any angst/anger................K
Posted by: auntykaz at November 2, 2008 4:12 PM
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 3:30 PM - Wasn't this post removed yesterday???? Why are you persisting to post in a manner that is not applicable or (I feel) acceptable to this subject?
FB search deep inside yourself & ask "what are my true personal values". The ones that are for your good & betterment & the good of those you meet each day of your life. It doesn't cost a thing to be kind & compassionate to others......
My sincere aplogies to everyone else....
Gentle blessing
Posted by: softfeather at November 2, 2008 4:04 PM
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 3:34 PM - featherlessb - For the first time ever on this site I will post something while I'm a little upset....
"And your point!!!! ".........
Posted by: softfeather at November 2, 2008 3:48 PM
Posted by: tassiedude1 at November 2, 2008 3:04 PM - Hi TassieD - Hope life is gentle for you...... :)
If "you" can connect with chris261 please consider taking a moment & posting something that he may be able to connect with. To me this topic is human fellowship at it's best. The need to connect with another in troubled times of life.
Hi chris261.... keep taking good care of yourself. Do it for you not someone else...... :))))
Posted by: softfeather at November 2, 2008 3:41 PM
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 1, 2008 11:14 AM
"Well drone it looks like you got cut on this post, l posted 2 replys to it but they were cut too & beleave me they were not pleasant, without a doubt it is one of the lowest posts you have ever put up, just a curiosity you think was faking it on this blog ???????"
I don't believe I suggested that anyone was lying or faking stories.
I just thought there was some irony, because it seems to me that if a depressed person showed up on one of the other blogs and expounded their, no doubt, bleak world-view, I reckon they'd be ostracised pretty quickly.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 3:34 PM
"I constantly hear it�s not all about looks from women I know yet from my experience I�m at the point where I feel that unless you are a nice piece of male eye candy being on here is pointless and can be counter productive for ones mental health."
I guess you can only trust what people *say* up to a point. How they act tells you more about what they really believe.
But the phrase "It's not all about looks" is kind of vacuous, anyway, because it could still be 70% about looks without being all about looks.
But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that really, it's not mostly about looks. Now, take a randomly selected male profile. Call the profile's owner "Bob". Because humans are more similar than they are different, there are likely to be heaps of profiles whose content is pretty much the same as Bob's. Now, consider a woman who would find the content of Bob's profile appealing. There are heaps of other guys who she has eliminated from consideration because their profiles don't appeal. However, Bob is still competing with a heap of other guys with similar profile contents. How would the woman chose between these guys who all have appealing profiles?
Physical appearance would seem to be a reasonable tie-breaker.
Posted by: featherlessbiped at November 2, 2008 3:30 PM
Oh Geez outback.
I'm so sorry for the confusion. I was talking about myself leaving and thinking to myself how Chris sounds so much like me when I first started on here.
It looks like things are going to work out after all. So I need to concentrate on that for a while.
Looking now I can see how the other sounded and I can assure you that's not the case.
Cheers Mate
Posted by: tassiedude1 at November 2, 2008 3:04 PM
Posted by: sonny51 at November 2, 2008 12:40 PM - "I sure hope that your children are aware that if you suffer from depression that in all likelyhood they may suffer from it too, as it is also a genetic trait".
Thank you for this post. Especially about the food one eats. It is nature & nurture that can contribute to depression.
I was in my mid 40's before I really started to do my research. I've found gentle easy methods to live my life in healthy happy ways that before were a personal struggle.
Posted by: softfeather at November 2, 2008 2:59 PM
Posted by: tassiedude1 at November 2, 2008 2:24 PM
Thats not a good look.......... Mate.
Kim
Posted by: outbackdrifter at November 2, 2008 2:37 PM
I love it.
As one gets ready to leave another is there to take the place.
It is so very refreshing to see that there are so many good people out there both male and female.
Just goes to show there is hope left for us all.
Cheers Rod
Posted by: tassiedude1 at November 2, 2008 2:24 PM
Posted by: chris261 at November 2, 2008 1:32 PM
I am speaking from my viewpoint and age bracket:
the most important thing to defeat depression is to talk and talk and then some more talking, get the feeling out and into the open and unfortunately men have been taught to hide emotions, that a man doesn't cry etc etc etc, all this holding in is not healthy and yes, it will trigger depression and unfortunate violent outbursts. Men are taught to be "tough" by their fathers as they have been taught by their and on it goes.
Men do have someone to turn to, their spouse, partner but they just don't know how, they feel shame and uncomfortable baring their innermost fears and upset for FEAR of seeimg weak, unma
Posted by: softfeather at December 31, 2008 1:31 AM - SF, it's not the words we use that are important, it's how the message gets across. I can feel your heart in what you say, so that's all that really matters.
Like you, I wish all those that are travelling troubled waters a smoother ride in 2009. While we may not be able to take away the pain that others may feel, we can offer our friendship to help share the load. I'll stick my hand out there - anyone that want's to yank my arm off can feel free to do so...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at January 1, 2009 2:18 AM