RSVP Blog

Aunty kaz - It can be emasculating to some people. I really thiunk it depends on how they were brought up(friends,family, etc.) Like for instance my dad. A Veitnam veteran, He's 60 this year, and i have never once seen him cry, nor has my mum. Even though they have been seperated for the last 10years, i am the only one of his sons he expresses he's feeling to. I beleive because he would find it emasculating to express to a female, having said that, i feel that it is emasculating for me to express mine to a female. I think it comes down to the fact that there was so much emphasis in our society that men are supposed to be tough, and go and fight wars and things like that. Whereas now, in modern days society, i feel men are being pushed aside by women and only being objectified when needed. Im not talking about all females, it was a generalisation. Im all for equallity between genders, but i think it has become a bit of a joke really, men are being out wieghed in population and significance on earth.

Posted by: metalscott at August 20, 2008 1:41 PM

Forevernow - Its funny that no one seems to realise that it takes more than 1 brick to build a wall until some one points it out,lol.

WnW - My picture was actually deleted, someone must have thought it was offensive,lol.

Stu - Thanks for the kind welcome,hahaha. I do think it is the "Sex and the City" age, but everyone(men and women included) seems to put too much emphasis on the fact that if the sex isnt mindblowing, they simply cant have any intamacy. I think even if the sex is either awkward, or not so great, that given the right person, you can have a chat or even just an inside joke, which i think would give a great boost to a relationship, given that both parties would take it constructively

Posted by: metalscott at August 20, 2008 1:21 PM

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 11:50 PM

"So I think I better have another look at my own profile this weekend."

Warper, why change something that has been so successful and led to hundreds of dates. As the old advertising slogan goes... when you are onto a good thing stick to it.

There is, however, one marketing concept that you may find useful. It is called cognitive dissonance. It occurs when consumer expectation created by publicity and advertising is not met when the consumer actually uses the product.
rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at August 20, 2008 1:17 PM

Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 19, 2008 10:58 PM

Marcus,

I could not help being taken aback by your comments:

" a gushy idealised female model of intimacy at the expense or compromise of his masculine" and "The creeping feminisation of human sexuality is corrosive and damaging and confusing for boys and men."

What extraordinary if simplistic generalisations. For a woman one of the most intimate and loving things for a man to do is let his guard down and tell her of his fears and apirations. Men are conditioned by background, schooling and perhaps even nature to be reserved about their innermost feelings.

Our society has developed beyond the time when the strong silent action guy was an asset. In an information age such people are an impediment not an advanatge.

From your various diatribes I gather your idea of intimacy appears to be a post coital "was it good for you too, dear" and whilst sex without intimacy is perfunctionary there is far more to intimacy than sex. Indeed very intimate moments may not involve physical sexualisation at all. It has been noted on this blog that few partnered people are making comments on intimacy and Waterbombe gave one reason for it. Unsaid was what averyone knows who has been in or is in an intimate relationship, that many intimate things only make sense to the intimate partners themselves. They may sound trivial or innocuous in print.

I doubt if any woman thinks the man that she loves is less of a man because he has been "too" intimate.
rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at August 20, 2008 12:26 PM

Ok, what do we know about brick walls? Well, I am in the building industry and I know for a fact that it takes more then one brick to build a wall. And I guess it is the same when considering tearing one down. A brick wall is built over time and many experiences that we are mostly fearful of repeating. Sometimes it is to keep people out, but mostly it is a safety issue, and to keep us safe from further pain. The best way to tear down a brick wall in this instance is with love, patience, support and understanding. And know that you may never reap the benefits but someday someone will. In the case of building your own wall, don’t give yourself permit to build one in the first place. Remember one brick at a time and before you know it we have boundaries, we don’t need or want!

Posted by: forevernow1 at August 20, 2008 12:22 PM

I like the wiki definition of intimacy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimacy
It seems to encompass what I take it to mean.
Woodnwine, I would have to say that at times I am terrified of real intimacy, especially with a man. You become very vulnerable and quite open to rejection, as you say. No one likes rejection, but some can tolerate or deal with it better than others.
Intimacy with friends develops nicely over time as you get together, for whatever reasons, have conversations and get to know each other. It is usually never forced and just develops...or not.
I think that in relationships, between a man and woman, that one partner can try to force the intimacy issue and this is when the other does a runner. No one has to talk about their feelings. It never means that you don't have them. Everyone has them...When it is expected to share them, because someone else wants intimacy, then it is forced and not one bit intimate. Some people just love to share their feelings... all the time and others don't always want to know. I think it is these people who force issues that could develop if just left alone and watered by friendship and getting to know people slowly but surely...intimacy in some form always develops then.

...and following on from WnW's suggestion, Bill, maybe you could update your pics and have a body shot...like you tell others to:))

Posted by: istj54 at August 20, 2008 12:18 PM

willow29 at August 20, 2008 6:59 AM:

That's right. In fact, I just wrote the music and lyrics for a new song this morning on the way to work (OK, it did take me a while to get to work...)

Reading all these blogs is a bit more emotionally intense than my regular life, and in small doses is probably good for the old creative process. The content of the song, by the way, is unrelated to any of the discussions going on here. When I get around to recording it, I'm going to need to find some black female soul singers for the chorus, though, and I gather they don't come cheap. :)

Posted by: drone at August 20, 2008 12:18 PM

Posted by: creativestuart at August 20, 2008 10:13 AM:

I see where you are coming from. But as long as it is possible for a lot of people to go on a lot of dates in a small period of time, they will do so, and this means that the "chemistry" thing is automatically prioritised.

Posted by: drone at August 20, 2008 12:11 PM

timewarper - if you are changing your profile, I'd certainly drop the reference to how many RSVP profiles you've been through , it makes you sound a bit cheap/desperate/methodical. No offense meant Bill.

Posted by: woodnwine at August 20, 2008 10:30 AM

metalscott - have to agree about feeling like a pice of meat. Also, glad to see you've changed your photo .... that T shirt worried me (maybe unnecessarily).

willow - yes, men write incredibly sad songs so obviously have the same feelings but maybe they don't often have someone to express them to .... women usually have a support network whereas men usually don't.

Posted by: woodnwine at August 20, 2008 10:27 AM

posted by woody 10:37pm:
"Why do people put up brick walls? What are they afriad of? Rejection? Maybe ......"

Because they haven't delt with their bagage, have been hurt by a past relationship or player. They are so afraid of being hurt, they won't allow anyone to get close.

Unfortunately until the wall is down they will never find a new relationship and will only end up hurting any genuine person who tries to develop one with them.

Posted by: creativestuart at August 20, 2008 10:24 AM

piscesgirl56 at August 19, 2008 10:04 PM

The perfect story

And the sooner an awful lot of the "must have instant chemistry" brigade loose that wofeful attitude and actually slow down, try people out one at a time, get to know who they are, the better!.

It is interesting I was hammered when I first started saying some of this stuff from a, guy who is looking, point of view, now we have two success stories in two blog chanels saying exactally the same thing at the same time.

The Girls (and some guys) could learn an awful lot from these two stories!

Posted by: creativestuart at August 20, 2008 10:13 AM

metalscott at August 20, 2008 12:48 AM

Welcome to the "Sex and the City" age

Posted by: creativestuart at August 20, 2008 10:06 AM

posted by woody 10:37pm:
"Why do people put up brick walls? What are they afriad of? Rejection? Maybe ......"
Now isn't that the question to ask? I know I spend a lot of time looking to see IF I am putting up a brick wall, WHY (I learn a lot about me from that), and challenging myself to take that brick wall down. It gets me, though, how so many 'partners' immediately bolt up solid iron walls when I show I am willing to take a small go at being vulnerable. The conclusion I have come to so far, and please help me out before I get over-cynical folks, is that people DON'T WANT intimacy, generally speaking. They prefer the easy trip of sex, or company to do what they want to do but not do it alone (ie, not sharing company but a person to drag along as they do their own thing - big difference because what the other person might want to get out of it often takes second place, if it is considered at all).
I often want to say "Hey, no drama, I am very happy with knowing my boundaries and am not offering you my universe, just to try and put a little of the wall down and have some minor authenticity", or less wordy than that of course!
If folks knew themselves better, had more of a sense of self-loving and the self-security that goes with that, they would be far less threatened by possible intimacy, even small quantities of that.
Some of you may remember me talking about the guy who turned to me in the night and gently stroked my face - it blew me away because it was so delightful. After that he just had to attempt to force me into things he knew were far too outside the square (and not in an intimate way at all!), knowing I would say No, he became more demanding with worse suggestions, including betrayal of friends, until I had to reject him...so he was secure to be dumped, hence avoiding any continuation of the intimacy he felt carried away to give me during the small night hours. That is reaction, avoidance, signs of internal conflict to a massive degree.....fear of rejection? No, fear of acceptance, of deeper intimacy....it seems to be the biggest antidote to potential love that there is! So maybe it was lluuuurrv but not 'love' whatever that is.

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 20, 2008 10:03 AM

You only need to listen to songs that men have written over the years to know that they feel just as deeply, hurt as bad, love as strongly, agonise, fantasise, are dropped to the depths of despair and are lifted to the heights of ecstacy. And if you think these men are exceptional, go to the break up songs blog and see the men that feel the pain when they hear those songs.

Posted by: willow29 at August 20, 2008 6:59 AM

About 10 years ago, my dad gave me the most sound peice of advice:

"People will come and go"

As for the pillowtalk after sex, i have found in my experiences, the females are the ones to not talk. Im more than happy for a chat after, but i get the cold shoulder.
I know this is going to sound funny, but it kind of made me feel like a peice of meat.

Posted by: metalscott at August 20, 2008 12:48 AM

laughsandtalks at August 19, 2008 10:58 PM: You didn't mention the increasing amount of estrogens in modern food and drinks, providing a chemical feminising pressure on males, on top of the sociological pressures that you were talking about.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 20, 2008 12:09 AM

Marcus at 3:06pm: As a scientist and fairy-floss debunker, you'd be interested in what I learned at a recent 2-day training course on internet marketing.

The purpose of having a website isn't to try to maximise the number of hits on the site, no matter how gratifying that may be for the site designer's ego. The manager's goal is different - to get new business, and you judge the site by that.

I'm mentioning this here because it has great relevance for all of us too. The proof of our pudding is also in the eating.

An RSVP profile can't be called effective until it actually gets you quality contacts - the kind of people that you deserve to have in your life, and really want to meet.

A few months ago I wrote something about Perth in a blog that caused her to shoot suddenly up to No.1 by later that day.

But I don't think it got her a single coffee date, let alone a satisfying relationship with any of the avalanche of Profile tyre-kickers that I'd pointed in her direction.

Who cares how many people just look at a shop window as they hurry past? To measure the window-dresser's skill, you have to count the till.

So I think I better have another look at my own profile this weekend.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 11:50 PM

espritlibrefemme, .....Hmmm what to say.............I feel for you & I do understand

Kim

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 19, 2008 11:44 PM

How is talking about feelings and fears emasculating??

Is it not human to have these emotions and verbalise them??

I think it was Outbackdrifter (sorry if it wasn't) who wrote of men being brought up to not express these things outloud, and questioning the worth if this...Last time l looked Outbackdrifter was a man.
Why can't a man verbalise emotion and feeling?? Is it against the law??
So many questions, Marcus.........K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 19, 2008 11:17 PM

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 19, 2008 10:04 PM:
"what already worries me about this internet dating is that people talk to several potential partners at the same time, they make several dates one after the other , their minds are busy for looking for something else, something different - how on earth can they keep track of what who said, how can they learn about each person, how can they give necessary time for each other? It sounds like a huge chaos!"

I met a woman from here once, who was obviously frazzled. The poor dear had been on something like 4-5 dates in a week. She admitted that she was feeling a bit, ah, emotionally drained from meeting all these guys. :) It was kind of amusing, actually.

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 11:15 PM

Ilovetolaugh57 at August 19, 2008 8:34 PM

I get a wry laugh out of some families I see at shopping centres. The old man is walking 10 or 15 paces in front trying to look nonchalant and single. Following behind is a line of obvious progeny with mum, often overweight and dowdy bringing up the rear.
You can bet the intimacy for him has gone if it was ever there and his marriage is obligation and service.

Some of what I'm reading here about intimacy is starting to sound a bit post modern. There is something manly and good about having an emotional reserve.
Feeling close and relaxed on the pillow after sex and enjoying the warm intimate converstions that come naturally is part of coupling (and it can come comfortably and naturally with someone you may only ever see once).
The idea that a modern man should be expected to follow a gushy idealised female model of intimacy at the expense or compromise of his masculine character seems a bit of a theme here. The creeping feminisation of human sexuality is corrosive and damaging and confusing for boys and men. Like so many other things that have stood the test of time, a real man's innate judgement of, and reserve, in a situation where revealing too much may have a cost later, needs to be respected. Talking too much about deep feeling, fears and aspirations can end up being emasculating and not helpful. It certainly works that way too, when those conversations are between men.
nakedblogger

Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 19, 2008 10:58 PM

I have to say on a lonely Tuesday night that true intimacy is exceptionally hard to have. Friendship, sex, fun are all comparatively easy to have but intimacy ...... very illusive. Why do people put up brick walls? What are they afriad of? Rejection? Maybe .......

Posted by: woodnwine at August 19, 2008 10:37 PM

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 7:59 PM

Sounds like you had a great time growing up in England - the music back then was truly revolutionary and we were so lucky to have experienced it and grown up with it. I'm readng Nick Drake's biography at the moment and all these bands and more are mentioned ..... very interesting times. Long live the blues.

Posted by: woodnwine at August 19, 2008 10:34 PM

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 7:59 PM

"It is the kids that had their teens in the 80s I feel for, Boy George and suits ruling the world."

You don't need to feel for us. My entire teenage years were in the 80's and I can't name a single song of Boy George's as I was too busy listening to Ratt, The Candy Harlots, WASP, Queensryche, Tesla, Saxon and many other Glam and Heavy metal bands. The only downside was that being in Australia, hardly any of those bands actually made it here (although as the Candy Harlots used to play locally 3 or 4 times a week I wasn't complaining), until the last couple of years (well past the peaks of their popularity and they're all finally coming out here).

Posted by: eurotravel at August 19, 2008 10:29 PM

drone at August 19, 2008 9:24 PM: I suspect the elf may be right, and your memory-fading is self-protective memory-repression.

Unlike you, I remember significant emotions better than significant events, starting with my annoyance at age two when I got my fingers caught in a rabbit trap up the sand ridge around half a mile from the homestead, and was chained there in the desert-edge sun, so that I couldn't go home once I was ready for a drink of water.

And my since-unsurpassed utter bliss at 21, lying on the olive Casben beach towel which is now my midwinter second blanket, but was then spread on the soft warm sand on the beach at Bribie Island. I had my arm over the shoulders of my first girlfriend, and my eyes closed, so as to enjoy it all better.

And my mental vacuum after identifying my teenage son in the morgue. Till I thought how much worse it must be for his mother standing beside me at that moment, because she'd just lost her mother a couple of weeks before. She'd need a hug.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 10:28 PM

On topic.... yes, with the right person.

Off topic.... the 60's....oooh I remember going to a huge concert at The Oval cricketground in London & seeing Emerson Lake & Palmer, Hawkwind & Genesis... far out it was trippy! There was low cloud cover that day, & the organisers played film of the Moon landing using the cloud as a screen!

hahaha... if I remember right, they were giving away a tab of mescaline with the tickets (I said it was trippy!)
When it got dark, guys moved through the crowds selling electric yo-yos (never seen before at the time), & the night ended with an enormous firework display...

... sigh

Posted by: decoratress at August 19, 2008 10:19 PM

Hi Drone,
Since the pain of losing my late husband has faded, the memories of the amazingly wonderful times we had together are with me constantly. I had to deal with the pain of his death to be free to release those memories. They were there all the time, and I was somehow protecting myself from re-thinking them with pain at the forefront of my mind, so their precious quality could remain for later ruminations. Now, his tender touches, his gentle voice, his saying "I love you" come to me many times, because they are what made us, the memories, even the ones of his annoying habits are preciously intimate now he is dead. The most importantly intimate ones are the ones where he showed me he knew about me in ways that no other human being on this earth did. No one else can have what he had with me, the intimacy between me and him....but there may well be someone who slowly grows to have intimacy with me, and me with him, where new memories are developed, ones that only we could ever know about each other...so if one departs, the memories are still there to comfort and support the one who remains. That is intimacy, that is love. The memories that need to feel safe to be released, and grieving has to be done before that safety is there. I think these are the memories that outback was referring to. And it is a bit of a chiller for me, outback, because he died on the Mundaring-Tiboburra Road, which was where I nearly died too - sorry bloggers....
But the memories are the vital thing about being intimate. Love and relationships need memories to survive.
Don't give up Drone, never give up.

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 10:19 PM

drone,"Yeah, you get where I'm coming from. Imagine that you're sitting on the sofa with someone you are intimate with. There are all sorts of feelings and sensations associated with that. It might be how their body fits against yours, the smell of their hair, the touch of their skin, their soft tone of voice/looks that they reserve for you, and so on."

for someone can not remember what intimacy felt like..............that was pretty good description :)

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 19, 2008 10:08 PM

aqueousdb66 I cannot agree with you more - it is impossible to build an intimate relationship, any kind of healthy relationship- unless you are emotionally fully focused on one relationship only...what already worries me about this internet dating is that people talk to several potential partners at the same time, they make several dates one after the other , their minds are busy for looking for something else, something different - how on earth can they keep track of what who said, how can they learn about each person, how can they give necessary time for each other? It sounds like a huge chaos!

When my daughter met her partner, she was very unsure what to do...I still remember her talking to me for days about her confusion: the boy is a serious young man, such a respectful good guy, BUT he was nothing like her ideal dream partner: she wanted a nice looking, big, strong man,with dark hair, this boy was of her hight, thin (even though a football player), fine boned, and oh dear: he was a BLOND...in addition she kept saying - I never want to date a football player! This boy was an active football player...she hated the culture football players were known for...After 2 wks of dating the boy, she said she could not cope with the boy, she found him boring...it was 3 years ago - he is her first true love, they are inseparable, every day together and the love between them is stronger than ever...guess what keeps their relationship so strong and beautiful? The intimacy they share on many levels! It took them a lot of TIME to achieve that. They deal with every single conflict immediately, nothing gets 'swipped undert the carpet'...they communicate openly and honestly...they have accepted their differences as stepping stones, they learn from each other. They are both fully committed to each other...there were things he has given up for her, and vice versa...and at the beginning there was nothing spectacular between them, not even that 'chemistry' present...she just gave it a time, because of the boy's other personal qualities...

This is impossible to achieve when you do not give time for a relationship to develop... even more so if you date one person and your mind is on looking for something else. I believe, that the best bet is to sort out ALL past relationships fully before we start looking for that right person. Be clear what you want! In every relationship we are different - we love differently and we are loved differently...different relationships bring out different personality traits...if we go from one relationship to the other we are taking our habits, behavior patterns, expectations with us and that can be damaging...

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 19, 2008 10:04 PM

Drone - yes, some memories may fade to nothing over time. But certain poignant ones seem to just take a back seat for a while, then a certain smell, sight, or song or sound, or all of the above can retrigger it and it's right back there with you...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 19, 2008 9:55 PM

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 7:59 PM:

Wow, so you were "there", eh?

I like 60s and a lot of 70s music... In fact I have all the Beatles albums and all their solo albums too (er, well, minus a few Ringo albums...) and that runs to a lot of albums! I've been getting into Harry Nilsson recently - beautiful voice, very distinctive singing style, and clever songwriter.

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 9:32 PM

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 6:56 PM:

Thanks, that was lovely of you.

Yeah, you get where I'm coming from. Imagine that you're sitting on the sofa with someone you are intimate with. There are all sorts of feelings and sensations associated with that. It might be how their body fits against yours, the smell of their hair, the touch of their skin, their soft tone of voice/looks that they reserve for you, and so on.

Now, suppose that this all ends, and you are single for a number of years. I'm sure lots of us can identify with this. What happens to your memory of what it feels like to be intimate like that? In my case, it fades. I wonder what happens for other people?

In the case of people for whom it fades, why does this happen? One possibility, along the lines you were suggesting, is that it's to do with self-protection. Another would be that it is just the normal way your brain is set up. Things to do with memories of feelings and sensations, rather than facts, recede without reinforcement. Thus, I can quite vividly call to mind the sensations involved in having a shower, but this is because I shower regularly.

What are the implications of this fading? I suspect without it, none of us could ever recover from things. If the memories someone has of, say, the death of someone close to them always remained as lustrous and vivid as the day they first got the news, it would actually be impossible to recover.

As to the fading of memories to do with intimacy, and what implications that fading may have for your being single or not into the future, I'm reminded of something grego wrote a few days back:

"You may not be hungry enough. Bottom line is you gotta really want a woman, you have to want to make love to her so much that you will burst if you dont. And I mean make love not piston sex. You gotta want to hold her in a way so that she feels safe and warm. You gotta want to caress her back and shoulders as if they are the most beautiful objects in the world.You gotta want to softly touch the edge of her mouth with your tongue so she squeaks in delight. You gotta want to brush her hair and tumble your fingers through it. You gotta want to look at her as if she is the only woman ever created. You gotta want her with with every part of you. You gotta want to love her so much you feel your guts will rip out."

I wonder if simply not being able to remember clearly what that was like, can cause you to be "not hungry enough"?

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 9:24 PM

Malsie, I wish you all the best and hope you are departing the blogs for happiness....
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at August 19, 2008 9:12 PM

"drone" I KNOW you did not mean anything bad in your comment about 'lunatics', I understood what was your point! I just tried to explain to you that there is an other side of the coin too - a positive side! As in everything in life...And I fully agree with you that one has to be careful, because 'lunatics' not only support each other but also learn dysfunctional patterns of behavior as well! Absolutely spot on! It's up to you to ignore all the harmful rubbish, negativity and nonsense and pay attention to useful stuff! AAANNNDDD - try to protect yourself, do not take on board what does not belong there!

No, we cannot generalise about men like that - emotional numbness, no capacity for intimacy, objectifying the human body (indiscriminate sexual activity, one night stands...) is NOT gender specific. I know men who are absolutely wounderful, who talk about their wives with so much love and respect, men who believe they won on the lottery when they met their wives!

Drone, you will find what you want if you keep the positive attitude and stay patient. Just do not go for the second best, because you fear lonelyness... :)

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 19, 2008 9:11 PM

re: drone 6.47 I agree it is not classy in fact it is downright disrespectful. In my opinion happily married/partners would never do this. It signals to me that all is not well in 95% of cases. Certainly there can be the light hearted loving teasing but you can tell the difference. I think that when you have been through the "mill" so to speak that you become quite astute at picking whom is really happily married and whom is not.

Posted by: lovetolaugh57 at August 19, 2008 8:34 PM

Posted by: amberlight58 at August 19, 2008 10:49 AM - Quite sure about that, are you Amber?

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 19, 2008 8:33 PM

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 19, 2008 9:45 AM - Ain't never been called "single, sexy and like a bottle of vintaged age wine" before, but I'll take it... ~*ma-waaah*~ :)

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 19, 2008 8:30 PM

I'll miss your posts also Malsie. Hope all is ok. Take care.

Jen x

Posted by: jenniferhi at August 19, 2008 8:23 PM

Bye Malsie...

Thanks Jen(did u get it? I can't believe it slipped through!)

Yes Timewarp,I saw your hand!

Chill out everyone.........listen to some Creedance!! and dance around the house!!!!

Nite all!

Posted by: musicteacher at August 19, 2008 8:20 PM

Drone, the 60s and the 70s, partially it depends on where you were then.
The 60s were a blast for me, being an art student in swinging Britain at that time was like wow, and the pill was there, along with heaps of talks of revolution and not being the same as the oldies (who were late 20s then!).
I remember "England swings like a pendulum do" and it did! Mary Quant, Twiggy, Scene at Six-Thirty and The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, The Who, a really crazy scene. At the end of the 60s there were open air concerts where you could see Led Zepellin and Cream and Crosby, Stills and Nash - I remember Jose Feliciano and Mungo Jerry being awesome, and seeing the Sabbath when they were just on the road promoting their Iron Man tour, also on their bill was The Pretty Things and Yes had been the week before, and Tyrannosauraus rex the week before that...and parties after the shows with groups, and communes, and the start of the hippies, wild child times, when living hard and dying young was the norm, Janis Joplin really showed it how it was, and Hendrix (I went to a party one Saturday night instead of seeing him live - regrets, regrets).
England was the craziest scene in the 60s - wild! It is the kids that had their teens in the 80s I feel for, Boy George and suits ruling the world. I am really, really glad I had the crazy teenage that I did, with all the swirling haze of parties and road trips that an art student was sort of obliged to get involved in. It was a gas!
No one I am still a wild child teenie girl in my heart and head....love the likes of Pink and Lily Allen because they really stick it up any conservativism, which is what we spent every day doing to be honest.

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 7:59 PM

Lynda, that dinner cooked for me for the first time was Osso Bucco. Was yum! Even though I could hardly eat. Oh, and I am open to learning new skills in the kitchen with someone special. Sounds a lovely thing to do for sure.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at August 19, 2008 7:57 PM

Oh, the dishes can wait til the next day if necessary. (hehe).

All you guys talking about the roast this week, well I cooked one tonight. Roast lamb and yes did bake the vegies. Except for the peas. Oh, and the gravy turned out yum. Doesn't often do that for me. lol.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at August 19, 2008 7:26 PM

'bye malsie. We'll miss you. Safe trip and have fun.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 7:13 PM

espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 9:46 AM : Of course you have no interest in me. I never thought you would. Way out of my league. And congrats on No. 1.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 6:59 PM

posted by outbackdrifter @2:14pm:
"Drone, if you can not remember its not intimacy or love....................very sad"
I couldn't disagree with you more. I read Drone's posting and my heart leaped out at him. It strikes me that he has known deep love/intimacy and losing it has been so very painful, and waiting in hope for it to come again has also createdn the greatest of all pains - the slow, diminishing loss of hope. I see Drone has successively protected himself, holding on the the memories by making them less inaccessible to his day-to-day grieving as hope dwindles. That is what is deeply sad, to see his precious human soul in such pain - and he was oh so brave to come forward and answer you highly direct personal query that you continually put to him, asking him to explain what intimacy means to him, and he has, and it is heartwrenching in its beauty because it is so vulnerable and raw and open and honest.
Drone your tender heart is protecting itself, waiting for love to find you again. There is a danger that the protection gets so great that it stops you from reaching out and continuing to try, but your heart has known intimacy and that is nevr forgotten once experienced, even if it becomes buried away from self-judgement.
Dear man, wrap yourself in love and nurture that heart so that hope does not disappear. Intimacy will return if you try to remain open to inviting it. That is the hardest part when love is lost.
Courage is when fear is felt and the urge to act against the fear is greater than the fear. You are on here, contributing with your heart wide open and exposed, and that tells me two things, one is that you have a tender heart still in need, the other is that you have a good mind as you can contribute so insigthfully. There is a third thing. You have courage.

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 6:56 PM

waterbombe at August 19, 2008 9:42 AM: Thanks for that info. New to me too.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 6:54 PM

willow29 at August 19, 2008 9:33 AM: I believe you are partly right. I was talking mainly about middle-aged men who'd been dumped, and lost their confidence as a result. Life plans scattered, egos shattered.

I think you're talking about the other kind - still got a little woman who is happy for him to vegetate throughout his leisure hours as long as she gets his pay packet, or is too timid to demurr. Or at least he has mates who encourage his indolence, because it doesn't threaten theirs.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 6:53 PM

Posted by: malsie at August 19, 2008 5:46 PM:
I've enjoyed reading your posts. Good luck with everything!

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 6:48 PM

amberlight wrote:
"However even my still-married friends' partners seem to find it funny to pretend their wife is some kind of dragon lady and act and speak to her disrespectfully, especially when in a mixed group.
These men are aged in their 40s & 50s and they act as if they would find it almost embarrassing if someone was to think they actually loved their wife!"

Sounds pretty unsatisfying for all concerned, to me... I don't really understand why people see the need to behave like that. It is not very classy.

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 6:47 PM

waterbombe wrote:
"I'm really interested in what you see as the differences between your generation and mine (I'm 55) ...I agree with you that the level of respect men have for women is greater in the younger generations...and I am curious to know more about it."

OK... this is all highly speculative.

I suppose the formative influences on your generation must have been a bit different... you'd remember the 60s, I guess. From the Australian TV I've seen from the 60s, the vibe seemed much different to today. Though the 60s is often talked about as this great transformational time, I gather that tertiary education was still mostly the province of the reasonably well-off. And I'm guessing that the all these social changes generated in the 60s didn't really start trickling down to the "masses" until some time in the 70s. Which perhaps means that your average person who had their attitudes formed in the 60s or even early 70s, would likely still be thinking in the old ways about men and women and how they relate.

One factor that strikes me as important, is the fact that, over time, women began to invade a broader cross-section of careers. Once upon a time, women could either be nurses or teachers - before they got married.
And I suppose it's easier to think of women as being innately less competent, and therefore, less worthy of respect, than men if all they get to do is a bit of nursing and child-rearing and housework.

But now, women do all sorts of things in the workforce, and men can see that they are very competent indeed at a lot of different stuff. And that feeds into measures of respect.

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 6:38 PM

Good luck Malsie, hope to see you on occasionally :)

Posted by: willow29 at August 19, 2008 6:26 PM

Intimacy occurs when both parties share equal power in the relationship. If your power is equal, you're free to share emotions. What you deem equal is going to vary dramatically from person to person. Posted by: capriciousimp at August 19, 2008 12:48 PM

Amongst the vexed an interesting post. When both parties share equal power the ability to allow true intimacy occurs. One would imagine that would be if the parties values were similar. On RSVP i have heard said, "it's presumptuous to assume someone has only one lover". Now that may be said as a means of indicating the parties are just dating and not serious but how can you seek intimacy when this thought is at the back of your mind. That is, they are or may be dating or actively seeking another person. Surely when you are dating someone that you think may have longer term possibilities you owe them exclusivity or is dating just another term for competing for their affections?

Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 19, 2008 6:17 PM

waterbombe at August 19, 2008 4:36 PM:

Very thoughtful of you to help me stuff. As it turns out, the phrase "adult orphan" yielded good things on google... a number of books, and so on. I'll get a couple of them.

Sometimes, you just need to know what to type into the search engine!

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 6:16 PM

Thanks for the kiss, lovemelady.
Jen, cooking is so sensuous and is great to do for yourself. Sure it is fabulous if a guy does that for you, I just know nobody has since I started dating again (well one guy a long time ago did some frozen vegies and fish, not real great but appreciated). Try experimenting and having fun, playing music that is sensual and fun, tippling on the wine, taking your basic ingredients and putting them together creatively, experimenting...like something else you also enjoy, I am sure (cqts).
The Osso Bucco Milanese last night was yummy and the L'aplan Provencal tonight will be fun to make (about to start) and I am sure will also be yummy. Regarding calories Perthgirl (and good luck with your perseverance there, much to be admired), I have found that eating something cooked long and slow, with lots of yummy juices, fills me so much that I eat hardly anything all day but a good plate of that meal and become so engrossed in cooking it that my mind doesn't tempt me with other things. That kind of self-indulgence is really good for figure managing!
And sneerssnidely, I wish it were possible to show a symbol for centre digit in air on here.

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 5:51 PM

I'm taking a break from the blogs for the forseeable future - may be back later, don't know... adios amigoes.... xx

Posted by: malsie at August 19, 2008 5:46 PM

grego@2 .44pm:

What's happened to your spirit of chivalry sir?
"BIDDIES"!!! humph! (ROFLM)

Posted by: kurli at August 19, 2008 5:12 PM

Greg, Greg, Greg......smack smack, sir l say!! Biddies, don't they have to be elderly, as in, like over 80 or something.......???

More like buttrflies to a moth l would think. Or a bright light.....yes, that's the one a bright light, moth is a little, ummm, "biddies" like, what do you think??.................K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 19, 2008 4:50 PM

Drone the best book that I know of for adults is written for women - its called Motherless Daughters. You could google it to get the author...(Fay someone I think). They are all people who lost their mother when they were teens and adults, and right through to their fifties, they had issues in common. The thing is that you model your adult behaviour on your parents...when you become a father, you look at your own father for ideas and strategies. If your father has died, you only have a memory to go on, and it may not be a particularly accurate one. You may not have noticed much about your father's parenting because it wasn't especially relevant to you at the time...but when you becaome a parent yourself, there is a whole lot of maturing to do and no one to serve as a model or to help . That's one of the problems that adult orphans face, that the rest of us don't. We mightn't like what our parents did, but they are there as models for us to accept or reject or modify. That book has some Aussie stories as well as American ones. Gender might not matter that much...you might find it a fascinating read. You could also ask your local librarian to find you books of that calibre written about men. Or you could write one.

I agree with you about the therapy, it's not that you need to re-evaluate your life, but if you have people who have been in the same boat to talk to, it helps to get a sense of where you are at. I wonder if there is a website that has a blog attached...like this one ...I bet there is something like that coming out of the US.

Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 4:36 PM

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 19, 2008 12:27 PM ..OBD just asking you a question here although your question wasn't addressed to me, but I am curious.... why do you think intimacy isn't mutual acceptance without judgement? Isn't intimacy the openess to another, the total acceptance of all their foibles and problems (we all have them) without saying, "I don't like that ...and that...and that...about you" ? Instead, just thinking, "oh yeah, he can't do that, or that, but it doesn't matter, because he's extremely talented/gorgeous/wonderful even without that". And not worrying or even thinking about the things you don't get in the relationship because you do get so much. That's what I mean by lack of judgement....you don't get everything you might want but you simply don't care. Other people might be bothered but you're not, you're happy.

And Amour Mwah...something of a dark horse... a stallion in a pretty dress?

Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 4:23 PM

Grego ~ Just who are you calling biddies? Hmmmm. Lol.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at August 19, 2008 4:02 PM

musicteacher ~ 1.20PM. Good post. And I think the guys will like it. lol. Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at August 19, 2008 3:45 PM

Outbackdrifter ~ Maybe some of us don't have our heart in it anymore. My heart soars off in heaps of directions, and I'm afraid cooking isn't one of them. I so wish it did actually. I'd rather clean up the mess and wash dishes all night. lol.

But I can tell you when a guy cooks for you how special that is. When I first started dating again, and was cooked for, I can't even explain the emotion that enveloped me. He thought I was crazy I think. But there I was tearing up at the dinner table. (He knows who he is and is probably reading this. lol. Thanks gorgeous guy). But when you have had a partner for all those years who hardly ever put a meal together, something like that is just so special.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at August 19, 2008 3:42 PM

Drone........we all have issues.........

don't obsess about yourself so much.......if it comes up,say what happened and move on.your date will have sad life stories as well...your lovelife should be a respite from the problems of your life.........it's your time,,,yours and hers.

Posted by: musicteacher at August 19, 2008 3:10 PM

espritlibrefemme August 19, 2008 9:46 AM
Black pots and kettles cheap anyone?

Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 19, 2008 3:06 PM

Posted by: troyohboy at August 19, 2008 1:54 PM

Troy, you are right but I was hoping Armoural would wait in the line giving Rod time to escape. I think there are a few biddies on here who would let him hide under their skirts.
rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at August 19, 2008 2:44 PM

ouch...why are the ugliest of souls able to write so little and say so much.

Why do the married ones have so much time for the single, straight, at one with themselves, to give more insight than invited to?

Why are those with the profiles of a Trogan so guided by thier own lights that that just smashed into someone else in Hobart that is drifting out to sea but pops in from time to time to pick up his hat..... I like his funny little ways.... say it with love and all things good as it says more about you that it ever will about me.

Nice try for the verbal upper cut though, always good to keep me on my toes although not one little bit of truth in any of it.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 19, 2008 2:23 PM

Drone, if you can not remember its not intimacy or love....................very sad

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 19, 2008 2:14 PM

Posted by: grego7 at August 19, 2008 11:49 AM

Mate, I think armoural would have the muscles to throw a sack over Rod. Poor old Rod would be in for a fright once he saw who had grabbed him however. Not at all what he would have suspected I think haha.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at August 19, 2008 1:54 PM

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 19, 2008 12:27 PM:

After 5 years of being single, it is difficult for me to remember what intimacy feels like.

I remember that it was worth having, but I don't have an *ache* in my heart for intimacy, because it is distant and I don't seem to really remember how it felt any more.

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 1:51 PM

Come on people:

Why argue with the opposite sex when you must know that we think differently on many issues.If you are going to discuss anything,try and think,then speak like that gender would....otherwise you are wasting your time.

We forget this.....and get frustrated and angry with the opposite sex.

I hope someone is getting some intimacy today....if not.....blow someone..........a kiss!

Posted by: musicteacher at August 19, 2008 1:20 PM

It is moi.

I have just finished easing my inner child and polished off a bowl of ice cream with my real life, in person friend who happens to be a male so cut and paste that if you choose to.

I choose whom I choose to be intimate with and sometimes, although not always share it on this site.

I also feel no need or desire to share my inner thoughts with the likes of those profiles that pertain to be in a marriage and scream and squeel all over this site as your profiles are well and trully blocked as they should be.

I like the many good apples here and choose only to read the ones that come from a good place and have only good intentions.

I keep my keys in my handbag and not ensure they never end in the fish bowl of the married, swingers, and those that enjoy that life style as I choose not to.

Call me young, craxy if you will.

I like to call it honouring they marriage and committment to be at one with myself and the one that I choose.

peace out xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 19, 2008 1:11 PM

Intimacy occurs when both parties share equal power in the relationship. If your power is equal, you're free to share emotions. What you deem equal is going to vary dramatically from person to person.

Posted by: capriciousimp at August 19, 2008 12:48 PM

Drone, I ask you about intimacy not mutual accept, From what I have seen your answers are textbook based not what you feel.............................now tell us what do you feel about intimacy ?

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 19, 2008 12:27 PM

Amber, If an old bushy like me can cook...............you can, cooking is from the heart not a book or tv show :))

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 19, 2008 12:15 PM

Warper,
A couple of months ago your interlude with a fellow blogger ended quite spectacularly. As I recall Marcus aptly descibed it as going down a flamer and crashing and burning.

This time,though, you have excelled yourself and been shot to bits in mid-air.
rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at August 19, 2008 12:13 PM

waterbombe wrote:
"I'm really interested in what you see as the differences between your generation and mine (I'm 55) ...I agree with you that the level of respect men have for women is greater in the younger generations...and I am curious to know more about it."
Hmm...

Let me think about this a bit.

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 12:03 PM

Actually, even if they've kissed you (or emailed), you can block them without putting them on your favourites.

Posted by: willow29 at August 19, 2008 12:03 PM

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 18, 2008 11:43 PM
"drone, teach us...........................Tell us what intimacy is to you ?"

To me, it involves accepting and being accepted without feeling that you are being evaluated all the time.

As for what it feels like, I think others have expressed it better than I could.

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 12:02 PM

That's correct Waterbombe :)

Posted by: willow29 at August 19, 2008 12:01 PM

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 19, 2008 10:24 AM

Armour, press ganging a bloke in a gunny sack is a bit brutal dont you think. Rod is a very good man and I am sure if you asked politely he would be more than happy to sereande you with his guitar.

There is a queue., however, so you will have to take your turn.
rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at August 19, 2008 11:49 AM

Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 9:20 AM:
"I've been reading about this recently and apparently if you lose your parents at 27, or anytime before your late 40s, you have to parent yourself...you either do it and become old before your time, or you don't do it (or can't do it, if you were very young when you lost your parents) and remain immature far longer than you would have."

That's interesting - thanks. If you have any references, I'd love to hear them. Maybe I'll do a bit more digging on the web. I did try to look into it a couple of years ago, but couldn't find stuff on people without families.

I did think of seeing a pych. about it at one time, but I think, mainly what I wanted was just to feel understood, and not a battery of cognitive behavioural therapy. Kind of like how people presumably come to this blog to feel understood, perhaps, because none of their married friends can relate to being single, or dating, or whatever.

I don't think I've quite worked out how to deal with the issue gracefully when it comes up on dates, though (as it always does, because people always ask about your family). The obvious thing that may occur to people on dates when this comes up is going to be something like "This guy is going to have a lot of issues, be very needy and vulnerable".

Posted by: drone at August 19, 2008 11:47 AM

Esprit and others, do you know you can block TW and others if you don't want emails from them? Simply go to their profile, make them a favourite (yes I know, its hard to do). Once they appear in your favourites folder, you can choose "block". That way, they cannot see your profile, but everyone else can. You'll still be open to kisses and emails from everyone esle, but they can't send you any because the message they get is that there is no such person as you on the site.

Is that the right procedure, guys...I'm relying on memory here.

Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 11:40 AM

LOL outbackdrifter,
I know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately in my case, no one even wants me for my cooking "skills"! Don't seem to possess any!

Posted by: amberlight58 at August 19, 2008 11:20 AM

Had to have a look Esprit, great photo and profile by the way!

Don't worry, I already "figured it out" H2H!

Drone, how sad for you about your family. Actually I find nothing offensive about your posts at all. You are honest and straight forward and there is very little cynicism in your posts!
Actually I agree with your observation that most young men today are far more respectful of their partners than many older men. I gave examples in my last post of many of my friends' husbands who seem to think that showing their wives respect and esteem in public is embarrassing!

I find my own sons have little respect for their father now. When they were in their early teens they tended to agree with him that their mother was some kind of emotional wipeout and they often sided with him when he criticised me.
Now they are older and have mates with girlfriends and have had girlfriends of their own, they seem to have realised that I wasn't asking for anything exceptional from their father and they ask why I chose to stay for as long as I did.

I wonder if some of these young men on looking at their own fathers, have decided that they want a better relationship than their parents had. They don't see their father making fun of their mothers, or disregarding her as behaviour they wish to emulate.
They are also partnering with young women who have seen their own mothers treated similarly and are determined they are not going to be treated the same!
So they don't tolerate any disrespectful behaviour in the first place.
Coupled with the fact that most young women have a career and financial independence, so they never expect to "settle" anyway, whereas (I am ashamed to say) my mindset in my early 20s was "well he doesn't drink a lot and although he never listens at least at least he doesn't hit me" not exactly the optimum expectations for a happy and enduring relationship!

Posted by: amberlight58 at August 19, 2008 10:49 AM

amourmoi08,Story of my life only wanted for company and cooking skills............ it would nice once in while if someone would just Lust after me :p

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 19, 2008 10:33 AM

TD or Rod which ever one you would prefer: If I was in Tassie I would throw a hessian sack over you and take you out to sea for at the very least, one month to get to know you better.

I am found on this site flitting about so if you would like to get to know me better read my blogs and learn more about me as I am learning about you.

I love all the postings and often send kisses to the well rounded and balanced ladies that also blog.

Before some men, (not all men, may if they are so inclined) start an epic sexual fantasy that they can enjoy off line in the privacy of thier own personal blogging space..............................................................I am not a lesbian or two short of a threesome!

I enjoy all your words and company and applied some your tips and tricks to the everyday life that I have to lead at times.

I sent a kiss to a profile that I thought was male and turns out the the picture that was password protected as mine is, was in fact a female.

Fortunate for me she was gracious enough to reply the kiss and tell me she did not want to correspond any further!

I had an interesting coffee date and left him at the coffee shop where he needed to stay and find out which pulse he was after next because it was not going to be mine that was clear within the first 10 mins.

So my fellow bloggers, I call a spade a spade and try to sort the wheat from the chaff in the most responsbile way, but always try to say it with love and the same intent that I find myself in the company of.

Peace out xxxxxxxxxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 19, 2008 10:24 AM

Esprit, that picture is lovely, pensive. Im sorry you have had such an awful email - especially from "one of us". There is an implied trust on the blogs - as you said, a respect. We are all placing ourselves in a very vulnerable position. I have had emails from fellow bloggers and I am happy to say that they have only ever been supportive and friendly. Thank you to those people.

Posted by: willow29 at August 19, 2008 10:23 AM

I don't need your gradings TW. I don't give them of others and I don't ask for them myself. You don't know me at all so are not really qualified to comment on my confidence or lack thereof. I think it would be good if you didn't email me directly, as you have been doing, to push home your point of view. I neither invite nor desire your attention. I am very happy with myself, hence being able to show full-faced photos of myself with no makeup on as my primary photo - and yet again become number one, with this more raw approach. Giving away the need to be graded by individuals who want to 'advise' me on how to market myself is something I can easily do. It is ironic that you choose to do this on the very day when my 'marketing' skills are shown to be so effective. Forget it as far as I am concerned TW. I have already let you know when you emailed earlier that I have no interest in you.
Sorry if this might sound defensive everyone. It isn't at all. Going off the blogs to interact with someone is calling upon good nature built from being a member of a blogging community. If that is misused, it demands being addressed, which is exactly what I am doing. Only one other has used emails as an inappropriate continuation from blogging and when he said I needed my clothes ripping off and to be thrown on the floor, I told him where to go. He knows who he is.
Please treat the relationship protocol developed on here with a bit more respect people, as so many of you frequently do, and thank you to the friends from the blogs who have done that.
Play with respect in the sandpit folks and I will endeavour to do the same. Cheers.

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 19, 2008 9:46 AM

hello sweet kind co bloggers. Well I have been absent in my blogs of late and just caught up to read wonderful words of personal growth. Good on you drone I can see you are making so many steps forward to being happy with your lot in life and making positive changes but don't apopolgies for posting blogs your worth every posting.

Outback I am still waiting for your address so that when I am in your neck of the woods we can have a rsvp dinner. I don't want anything from you other than your good find company and cooking skills.

heart2heart your single, sexy and like a bottle of vintaged age wine that I can not wait to meet up for one day when I am in your neck of the woods. Again, not wanting anything other than your fine company and obvious good conversation.

Peace out and kiss all that deserve the kiss.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 19, 2008 9:45 AM

oh and I'm not being patronising...I am dealing with this in my own life as my partner has two children who lost their mother as adults... there are so many things to learn about it I was astonished. I just thought I'd pass on the information...you may already know all about it of course. But if you, or anyone who finds themselves in my positon, doesn't know about it, it helps a lot to read about it.

Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 9:42 AM

TW, its interesting that you note that "fear of failure" makes the tv remote attractive to older men. Are you sure its not just complacency? The "I've reached that stage of my life where if I dont feel like going jogging, I won't. If I want to eat pizza and drink beer, I will".

Posted by: willow29 at August 19, 2008 9:33 AM

All my immediate family (parents, brother) were in the grave by the time I was 27, after long illnesses in some cases. My, ah, problems in life, if there are such, come from thinking too old for my age, rather than too young. drone at August 18, 2008 11:29 PM

I've been reading about this recently and apparently if you lose your parents at 27, or anytime before your late 40s, you have to parent yourself...you either do it and become old before your time, or you don't do it (or can't do it, if you were very young when you lost your parents) and remain immature far longer than you would have. A hell of a lot of our emotional maturity depends on having our parents as examples...to follow or to reject ... we might reject some aspects and follow others, it's quite complex...but if we don't have them, we sail around in circles looking for them, or we become them ourselves as far as we are able. We are used to thinking of only children being affected by the death of a parent but there is research on parent loss in your twenties, thirties and forties because it really does seriously make an individual either older or younger than they would have been had their parents lived.

Sounds like you had a bit of a rough trot, drone, and so may be more mature than the average guy your age. You may find women your own age or a bit older more compatible, or perhaps look for a woman who has had your experience of early parent loss. There are organisations for adult children who have lost parents...you would probably find something on the net. That would be the quick way to get some information about it.

Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 9:20 AM

Gosh, aqueous, drone said a grain of salt not an avalanche of salt!

Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 8:56 AM

Timewarp @12.41am - "continuing focus on trying to plead your own desirability, instead of taking it as a given and focussing on your log of claims" How true is that for those of us who have been battered by the confusion and the feelings of loss (of our partner, of our self-worth, our pride).Thank you - that came as timely advice.

Posted by: willow29 at August 19, 2008 8:49 AM

I think it's fear that makes the TV remote so attractive to many older men. Fear of failure.

Fear of being examined minutely by womankind and classified as older than Brad Pitt, shorter and fatter than George Clooney, slower than Michael Klim (and not even as bald); more stupid than our Marcus, and guaranteed to generate more methane than New Zealand.

Hey, if you don't stand up and compete, you can't lose the race and feel bad about that ...."

This was a bit of my response to happytimes70 in the Over-50 blog that is only half full, but is hidden away in "Categories".

People were writing good stuff there yesterday. Worth a look. And if enough people look, that might get it into the top 100 that RSVP list under "recent Entries."

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 8:27 AM

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 18, 2008 9:11 PM - Couldn't have said it better...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 19, 2008 12:51 AM

Posted by: amberlight58 at August 18, 2008 10:10 PM - Yah Amber. It is a gross generalisation, and exactly what it was meant to be. I'm sure you'll figure it out...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 19, 2008 12:49 AM

espritlibrefemme at August 18, 2008 10:16 PM : An attempt at a reply to your question:

* You're at least a nine-and-a-half (out of ten), you've had a partner who was a ten, and you certainly deserve another ten. And more than one in turn, if he doesn't last long enough either.

* So set your own minimum standards for what behaviour from others is good enough to be acceptable to you, to avoid you retrenching them, or not hiring them in the first place. Set these standards in each category of behaviour, so that if met, they will give you what you deserve from a relationship.

For example, if it matters to you, demand "a relationship where understanding and acceptance does not equate with either feeling hog-tied or being accused of being the jailer."

* Seek people to become your new extra friends-first from those who have heard exactly what those standards are, and are comfortable in theory with living up to them.

You can't fly like an eagle if you consort with turkeys, and intelligent, experienced people are usually able to tell the difference. (Start by watching for wing-dragging and hobble-gobble.)

* Use the Confucian method of recruiting: specify the requirements for the candidate in such detail that only suitable applicants put their hands up, saving a lot of wasted time (and sometimes heartache) in pre-screening.

This is the diametrical opposite of your current otherwise-excellent profile's woefully-limp-wristed perfect-partner specifications, which I see as inviting every fourth-rate male to chat you up and waste your time.

In my own profile I specify clearly what I'm looking for, and I also have a standardised initial email (to use when they've licensed me to send it, or in answer to their first email, if the kiss came from them).

This email includes (in different words) that I'm fair dinkum about meeting someone who's also looking for a permanent relationship (friendship first), so I want to immediately eliminate the insufficiently-motivated tyre-kickers.

So I ask for a commitment to a first meeting of at least 2 hours over a 'Dutch' meal, or forget it. This gets rid of about one in 40 who got to that stage, but won't commit to investing a couple of hours in checking out a potential future romantic partner sight-unseen, but profile already seen, and already approved in theory, if accurate.

LJ, I believe your only obstacle to finding yourself your next 'ten' within a reasonable time frame is your continuing focus on trying to plead your own desirability, instead of taking it as a given and focussing on your log of claims like a real negotiator. And they're the ones who get what they deserve. And the very Best of British to you!

PS: To all you other gals and guys, including myself: That goes for you too. Even if you're only a six, you deserve your match, and that's a lot better than a four. So don't settle for less, again.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 19, 2008 12:41 AM

This means that the evidence presented on here, if used to make *generalisations* about the characteristics of either men or women, should be taken with a grain of salt. Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 10:25 PM - Well drone, if your not finding these blogs supportive or helpful in any way perhaps you should hibernate as quite frankly your *generalisations* about the characteristics of bloggers is rather condescending. You are implying that our life experiences, which are completely relevant to this forum, are making us impervious to the world at large and completely devoid of rationality. Perhaps this is because you are unable to accept valid criticisms and apply them insightfully. Just a thought.

Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 19, 2008 12:15 AM

There are very few absolutes in life, most things come in shades of grey and I think most of us are wise enough to know that. I hope that I can look at things in a broader sense rather than from just my own experience. Indeed if that is all I reflected on i would not be as happy as I am.

I was married for 25 yrs and there were many good times and good things about it but it came to an end. There were things i could have done better or different but i didn't. I know for a fact that all men are not like my ex, some are many times better,nicer,kinder or more loveing and many are much worse people. I still like men, generally (lol)...there are a few I wouldn't pass the time of day with, but the same goes for some women.

And so in relation to the topic..people grow, evolve, change at different rates so it is highly probable that in a relationship the level of intimacy will change over time and may even be lost due to these changes. I think now that we are all older though and more stable there is a good chance of meeting someone that travels the rest of lifes journey with us at the same speed.

In any case, regardless, I'm neither giving up nor going on a frantic search....... it will all work out in the end.

Manda :)

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 19, 2008 12:09 AM

drone, I wouldn't worry about needlessly offending people on here - everyone manages to at some time or another, just because of the way people jump to conclusions about what's actually being said (like I must have!), get their pet issues that upset them triggered, etc.... I wasn't in the slightest bit offended by the "asylum" comment, as I said, and I did misinterpret what you were saying (and agree totally about generalisations about men thinking sex is intimacy, or whatever it was, as being somewhat daft). I thought you were saying people on the blogs had failed at their relationships so weren't the best ones to be commenting on how to be intimate or have a successful one.... sorry, just misunderstood you - way too late to be writing this, it's probably one garbled old mess... night all....

Posted by: malsie at August 18, 2008 11:58 PM

drone, teach us...........................Tell us what intimacy is to you ?

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 18, 2008 11:43 PM

None of the happily married/partnered couples get to speak here about their relationships, and about the opposite sex drone at August 18, 2008 8:25 PM . Drone, there are a few partnered people on the blogs, Troy, Grego and myself, that's all as far as I know...no wait there are another couple of women but I forget their names at the moment ...but its very tricky blogging about intimacy in your relationship because you have your partner's privacy to consider..so you are right, very few partnered people will post anything.

From my pov, I think you do get a more negative view of men and women from divorced people...as others have said, we have had some bad experiences, and I know some of my happily partnered friends just haven't experienced it. One thing I do notice about my partner who is not divorced is that he has a much more positive attitude to relationships than many divorced guys I have dated...also he deals with conflict by talking it out immediately...conflict thus becomes an opportunity to become closer, to increase the level of intimacy,( instead of a path towards separation). That's a fast way to increase the level of trust and happiness in a relationship.

I'm really interested in what you see as the differences between your generation and mine (I'm 55) ...I agree with you that the level of respect men have for women is greater in the younger generations...and I am curious to know more about it.

Don't worry too much about being seen as argumentative on here, some of us have jobs like yours, and we survive ok on the blogs (with the occasional hiccup through being a bit too confrontational, which we are used to at work), but people continue to talk to you !

Posted by: waterbombe at August 18, 2008 11:39 PM

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 18, 2008 9:32 PM:
"the reason older people sound more gely is that we have gone through a lot of experience which have shaped our attitudes, values, ideas ect...when we were your age we were probably thinking the same way you do ..."

In a way, I doubt it. All my immediate family (parents, brother) were in the grave by the time I was 27, after long illnesses in some cases.

My, ah, problems in life, if there are such, come from thinking too old for my age, rather than too young.

Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 11:29 PM

drone at August 18, 2008 10:13 PM: Go for it, mate. You're more than holding your own intellectually with us wrinklies.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 18, 2008 11:23 PM

Re. older people again...

I'm thinking of a (now deceased) aunty who wasn't a fan of blacks, or Catholics, migrants, etc... had fairly insular views about most things that wouldn't have changed since she was in her 20s, and frankly, they would just have been the views that her parents had.

But if you dug a bit, there were interesting things there. I think that there is often a mistakenly polarised view about old people... either they are "past it", or we should respect them merely for the fact that they are old.

Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 10:50 PM

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 18, 2008 9:32 PM:
"the reason older people sound more gely is that we have gone through a lot of experience which have shaped our attitudes, values, ideas ect...when we were your age we were probably thinking the same way you do ... the reason I always liked older people is that by the time they get to their 70ies they have accumulated so much life experience that it's delightful just sitting and listening to them. Honestly!"

Yeah, I like listening to older people too. There are always interesting stories and anecdotes.

How interesting they are, though, also kind of depends on what state of mind they lived most of their life through. Some older people are pretty unreflective, and have not changed their views on anything for roughly 40 years. In those cases, well, you kind of enjoy the anecdotes, and take what you can from the conversations.

But older people who have lived an examined life, well, they are absolutely fascinating.

Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 10:34 PM

malsie at August 18, 2008 2:19 PM: You put it in a nutshell.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 18, 2008 10:30 PM

jenniferhi at August 18, 2008 8:32 AM wrote "It's possible to have some or all of these things with your partner. It's also possible to be fulfilled by others in your life. (Friends, family, mentors.) And this can be sustaining to complete ones self. True happiness comes from so many sources."

Jen, this is so true. It doesn't all have to come from your partner. And expecting it all from your partner will be an unbearable overload for some partners who do not have enough bandwidth to satisfy your needs. Or not enough just yet, if they're still growing emotionally. The 'nuclear family' was one of the worst ideas to come out of the 1960s.

As a result, many of us do have or have had relationships that satisfied too few of the types of intimacy that we personally crave.

And sometimes you don't even know what you're missing, till you've already got some of the other stuff.

As a man, I put a fairly high priority on sex - fulfilling for both of us, if not totally mind-blowing, which would be even nicer.

But once that's been ticked off the list, I find I have other needs that step up in turn to the front of the queue, as Professor Maslow suggested in the 1940s.
..............................................................

What I see as the main problem for us recycled singles is that we now know too much. Much more than we knew before we'd been through the mill the first time.

We're now sensitised to what we found out by experience that we were missing out on, the last time(s) around. So we want it to be better next time, or we're no better off. Which is a harder ask, and that's the problem.

When I was in the dried-up later stages of an initially-delightful 30-year marriage, the only 2 people I could talk to about my feelings at all were my favourite aunt in her 80s living right across town, that I could only get to see every 3 or 4 weeks, and one of my subbies, whom I saw 3 to 5 evenings a week.

I'd drop goods in to his workshop to be machined or welded at 5.45pm just before he closed, and we'd chat for maybe 10 mins while he degreased his hands, switched everything off and locked up. Then at 7am on my way to work I'd pick the smaller jobs up already done. The first Christmas after I was separated he invited me to Xmas lunch with his family. I was really touched, but my aunt expected me to have it with her, which I'd done for over 40 years.

Next time around I hope to be able to rely on my romantic partner to meet more of my needs for friendship and emotional intimacy, and that's the main reason I'm taking so long to find an approximate match for what I listed as my intimacy offer here at 10.45pm onAugust 15. And thank you to those of you who applauded my list.

I'd better go search the Yellow Pages to look for a suitable restaurant somewhere near Jindalee to suggest for my Wed evening first-date. She said thai, italian, middle eastern or chinese. Any suggestions, Brisbanites?

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 18, 2008 10:27 PM

Posted by: malsie at August 18, 2008 9:42 PM:
"Sure, a lot of people who contribute on the blogs have been through marriage or long-term relationship break ups and are seeking new relationships, but I don't know that that makes them any less knowledgeable than your happily married/partnered friends with regards to issues of love."

I agree entirely, and that's not what I was getting at, I think.

It's more the negative generalisations about the sexes, like the one that set me off, to do with men and intimacy, that I think are more likely to be represented on here than in the general community.

This blog is an unrepresentative sample of general opinion about the general characteristics of men and women. Forgive me for this, but the sum total of people on here are more likely to have axes to grind about the opposite sex than a representative sample taken from the community as a whole, simply because partnered/married people are, for the most part, absent.

This means that the evidence presented on here, if used to make *generalisations* about the characteristics of either men or women, should be taken with a grain of salt.

Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 10:25 PM

I wonder what the reaction would be if someone posted the comment "women are all the same, they are all after one thing."
Maybe both men and women are all the same, maybe we all want the same thing...if only we did and could be brave enough to both recognise and accept that...such things as love without losing freedom of self, space to get it wrong without being judged in black and white terms, time to consider and adjust without losing the fire and passion, beauty without perceived treason, security without being weighted down, honest relationships without false accusations, friends without having them read as FWBs, financial sharing without loss of financial fun...I guess a relationship where understanding and acceptance does not equate with either feeling hog-tied or being accused of being the jailer.
I don't think relational intimacy is possible without freedom being protected. Anybody want to put me right on this one as I am always ready to learn?

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 18, 2008 10:16 PM

piscesgirl56 at August 18, 2008 9:11 PM:

I understand entirely what you are saying about the value of support. Believe me, I'm not knocking anyone, because, as I said I'm sitting right here in the asylum with the rest of you.

I guess it's more when I hear things like "Men, in general, can't separate intimacy from sex"... well, I just don't think that is true, from my own experience, and from other guys I know - and also from female friends who are in satisfying relationships. And I know that those who feel most aggrieved or unsatisfied often tend to extrapolate from their personal experience to the entire population of males/females, because it makes them feel better. Believe me, I've heard similarly implausible generalisations about women from men, as well.

It's more like this... just a caution... I wouldn't want people to form and/or have impressions in general about what men (or women) are like, from people who, statistically speaking, are more likely to have had bad experiences than the population as a whole.

When the lunatics get together, it's important to have some perspective, and realise that sometimes, they do not just provide support for each other, but that they can also inculcate false beliefs. And if support means being incautious about inculcating false beliefs, then it should come with caveats attached, because false, or insufficiently examined beliefs can be just as harmful as lack of support.

If anything I said came across as insensitive, I'm sorry for that. In my, ah, profession, I'm kind of used to having people disagree with me all the time, me disagree with them all the time, and so on. That's probably why some of you were surprised that I didn't react particularly strenuously to the critiques of my profile, and put it down to lack of self-esteem.

I do worry that if I continue to post freely here, I may needlessly offend some people. And that may not be helpful.

Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 10:13 PM

Hey H2H, isn't that a bit of a generalisation?
Aren't people here speaking from their own personal experience?

If some of the women on these blogs, in your opinion, have a jaundiced view of men then surely that is because maybe they've never actually experienced relationships with well-balanced and kind men?

My experience in a long-term 22 year marriage relationship, was very similar to piscesgirl's.
I also grew up with a father who was (at times) violent and an alcoholic.
We had little to do with our extended family when I was growing up, because my parents didn't want then to see what our life was really like.

I know there are caring and loving men out there (everyone tells me so!) but do you know I have never actually had a close relationship with one?
So if some of us appear a little cynical at times (and don't tell me there aren't thousands of blokes who feel the same about women) maybe it because we have never lived the experience of being truly loved by a man in an adult and respectfiul relationship.

I hope I have taught my sons that it is okay to trust and love a woman and that it is okay to express their feelings.
However, they still occasionally say and do things that would not "make the grade" with a lot of today's young women, the majority of whom have high self-esteem and high expectations of the men in their lives.

I have observed myself, the respect and esteem some of today's younger men seem to show their partners, as expressed by Drone in his post.
However even my still-married friends' partners seem to find it funny to pretend their wife is some kind of dragon lady and act and speak to her disrespectfully, especially when in a mixed group.
These men are aged in their 40s & 50s and they act as if they would find it almost embarrassing if someone was to think they actually loved their wife!
It makes me wonder how many of these marriages will last another decade or so.
Especially when some of my married girl-frinds tell me how "lucky" I am to be able to live my own life!

Posted by: amberlight58 at August 18, 2008 10:10 PM

drone @ 8.25 pm "kind of like asking the other lunatics in the asylum for a mental-health evaluation".
I know what you mean, of course, and take no offence whatsoever to the idea (and in fact something similar has been suggested before on here), but am not so sure I agree.

Sure, a lot of people who contribute on the blogs have been through marriage or long-term relationship break ups and are seeking new relationships, but I don't know that that makes them any less knowledgeable than your happily married/partnered friends with regards to issues of love, intimacy, etc. Let's face it, give some of them a few years, and they too could be here joining us in merry discussion on life, love and the universe ;)

Posted by: malsie at August 18, 2008 9:42 PM

"Drone", the reason older people sound more gely is that we have gone through a lot of experience which have shaped our attitudes, values, ideas ect...when we were your age we were probably thinking the same way you do ... the reason I always liked older people is that by the time they get to their 70ies they have accumulated so much life experience that it's delightful just sitting and listening to them. Honestly!

By the way, despite the fact that I was not lucky enough to find that right partner yet, it never crossed my mind that all men are insensitive...no way! I would not generalise like that, it's silly!

I could never blame my ex partner for the relationship break down any more than I blame myself - in fact I believe that 2 are needed to tango...one has to be realistic and understand past relationship problems as learning experiences - the very moment we start blaming the other for problems , we are losing control over our own destiny, we miss the opportunity to learn the lesson! We might even repeat the same mistake again! Even if the problem was in personality differences, in differences in need for intimacy, or worse: violent partner - we still had the choice to walk away...and that's a lesson too. To know when to walk away, and why did not we walk away early enough? Rather than blaming the other for being the way he/she is...it's also a lesson to know what our legitimate needs are and do not feel guilty for having these needs and expecting them to be met by our partner!...I hope this all makes sense! :)

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 18, 2008 9:32 PM

musicteacher at August 18, 2008 2:26 PM: My hand is up and waving for attention, ma'am.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 18, 2008 9:31 PM

"drone" I understand what you are trying to say, we all had problems in our past relationships and we are still searching for that right person. That's true, however, it does not mean that we have not LEARNED important lesson on that journey! The point of this blog is to share what we have learned and to listen to others' points in order to make sense of our own experiences, also by listening to others we might be able to come to understanding of things we could never make sense of before...this is kind of a support group, where people with similar problems come together, because we actually KNOW what we are talking about. Imagine if happy couples were involved - they would not be able to understand us, might even make us feel more guilty than we already are...the point of problem specific groups is actually: support! Noone can understand you better than the person who walks in your boots...and we all learned something from past mistakes and that knowledge and understanding we share here. We all had good and bad experiences and that experience has taught us about what we really want/do not want for ourselves in the future... :)

I cannot see any generalisations happening here, people are just talking about their own experiences and they dreams and aspirations, about their goals for a happy relationship. Somethimes while writing down our thoughts or answering other people's messages we come to new realisations! That's all very positive and helpful. :)

By the way - it's fact that 'lunatics' in the asylum are the best support for each other, because they KNOW they are not crazy as opposed to staff who never experienced mental illness...have you watch the movie with Jack Nicholson " One flew over the cokoo's nest"...

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 18, 2008 9:11 PM

I find the fact that 'Intimacy' is even a topic on these blogs a bit of a conundrum: the reason being that names, Emails, Phone numbers etc. are unrevealed. I know everyone will wax lyrical about how we have to 'trust' someone before meeting them, but still - in the normal course of events - say at a party or social function, we would probably exchange the latter immediately.
Maybe the need to 'protect' identity is partly because I suspect that while there are genuine ppl on this site who are looking for a mate/friends, there are a certain proportion who seem to voyeuristically fixate on engaging in chatroom activity , etc and not want to take things any further - I have had a few experiences to this effect. I also suspect that there are a few quite skilled ppl who have had a lot of experience in hooking someone to engage in these activities.
It also occurred to me that those who had the opportunity to be intimate would be out doing it, rather than discussing it on a site such as this.
Internet sites are a whole new ballgame. It would be a pity if they stalled us from engaging in the very activity which drew us to them in the first place.

Posted by: margie18 at August 18, 2008 9:03 PM

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 18, 2008 7:29 PM:

I get what you are saying... I notice you are from the country. My father was a farmer who left school at 13, and in his late 50s when I was born, and my mum was 41 when I was born.

So, in a way, I have a kind of direct understanding of how things were for people on here who are older than me, because our parents came from the same generation.

If you add the country-aspect into the equation, it makes even more sense. Both of my parents were very closed and private people. Make no mistake, they were both very decent people also, but very private, and I don't think I knew very much, with either of them, what was really going on under the hood, so to speak.

Most of the bloggers on here are mid-40s and older, and I can say with some confidence, that things re. intimacy, and so on, are a bit different for people in their thirties and twenties (i.e., most of my peers). Some of the things people are saying here gel a bit, but I honestly think that a number of these things are getting better moving forwards, so to speak.

Having said that, I think that there are a lot of great attributes that the older generations had, that are being lost somewhat, so it's swings and roundabouts.

Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 8:52 PM

Yah, well, get used to it Drone my boy. There are those that only see men through one set of "they're all the same emotionless morons" glasses...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 18, 2008 8:44 PM

One other related thing... these topics are all very interesting, and it's good to chat about them.

But there can be a bit of biased sampling involved. Most of us on here are single, and may have had our various problems with the opposite sex. None of the happily married/partnered couples get to speak here about their relationships, and about the opposite sex. And we should probably bear this in mind before making generalisations about any of these things.

To some extent (and please forgive me for this analogy, because it is not meant in a perjorative sense, and if it were, it would apply to me also) we should bear in mind that the discussions here can be a bit unbalanced... kind of like asking the other lunatics in the asylum for a mental-health evaluation.

Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 8:25 PM

iaminperth wrote:
"Exactly Outback. I honestly didn't mean it to sound that way, I was just trying to say in the general run of things a lot of them do. I wasn't putting anyone down, just trying to say I think that is how it is."

Just quickly on this (yes, I should be taking a break from the blogs like I said I would, but I guess I can't be trusted): this idea that men are, generally speaking, so unnuanced as to equate sex and intimacy strikes me as unfamiliar.

I would be surprised if many of my male friends are like this at all. Nearly all of them are either married or in long-term relationships, and from what I have observed of them, and the way that they speak about their partners/wives, it is obvious that they have the utmost respect for them, are sensitive to them, and care deeply about their interests. None of them slag off their wives/partners to me... not in the slightest.

I was just talking tonight with a guy who I've recently been getting to know better. His wife is going to have a baby soon, and he is a pretty straight-up guy, but every time he mentions his wife (who I have never met), it is obvious that he feels the deepest respect and tenderness for her.

Posted by: drone at August 18, 2008 8:08 PM

Perth let me tell you it aint easy to pop some beans and / or peas in the roasting pan! That is why they should be steamed lovey!
Pumpkin and carrots yeah at times, but not always.

Outbackdrifter, that is a very true post at 7.29pm today. Hopefully the generation we are raising now will show a bit more of your no.1. .........................K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 18, 2008 7:59 PM

iaminperth, In my life l have found 3 types of blokes, First blokes who have feeling & will share them ( very few l know ), second blokes who have feeling but will not share them with the people who are close to them ( most of us ) third blokes who have feeling & hate themself for it ( they die very sad & very alone sad I know ).
the thing is australia have alot to answer for, the last 100 year the moment men are born they are told your man you feeling nothing, show no feeling ...........show no emotion, as young child the males in our life tell us the same thing one way or an other, at school we get the same thing........your a bloke, we are tuff, so by the time we are young adults we think thats the way it is but we find out real fast we do have feelings, we fall in love but we dont tell the ones we love.
then we lose love & we are total lost.........so we brush ourselfs off & start again but we make the same mistake again.
By then we we are mid 30s to mid 40s, then we start to think maybe we should be more open but we don´t know how to !!!!!!!.
Some of us get it right......some of us keep trying & some of us hate what we feel

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 18, 2008 7:29 PM

Exactly Outback. I honestly didn't mean it to sound that way, I was just trying to say in the general run of things a lot of them do. I wasn't putting anyone down, just trying to say I think that is how it is.

Posted by: iaminperth at August 18, 2008 6:09 PM

Here I am taking heart from the wonderful words of Tassiedude and Outbackdrifter and not only their attitude to inimacy, but their willingness to share. Maybe they can encourage other 'blokes'?? Thanks for the hope guys.
Kurli always has something perfect to say - she's a wise Brissie gal. Thank you. That "sharing of ideals and innermost thoughts without fear of ridicule or indifference" is a heady experience and "murmurred words of love and caresses........" are the icing on the cake (of intimacy), so to speak.

Posted by: curiousandcreative at August 18, 2008 5:23 PM

Sorry, WnW ;-)....next time l will do them and think of you...............K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 18, 2008 5:04 PM

A note for the phantom kisser whose profile went inactive before I could thank you for being so gracious...so thank you...just in case you read this blog.
Thanks for your kind words too, malsie.

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 18, 2008 5:03 PM

iaminperth, contrary to what you think, not all blokes think sex & intimacy is the same thing

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 18, 2008 5:02 PM

Tassiedud, no worrys mate, you keep it up, some of us blokes find it hard to put feeling to words ( yes lady we do have them :) ), in way you are writing for more then just yourself.

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 18, 2008 4:56 PM

Kaz, I agree with WW and I cannot imagine, having heard other things that you cook that they are not ! Methinks you may have told a porkie there.

Posted by: iaminperth at August 18, 2008 4:51 PM

espritlibrefemme@12.49pm:
You are an amazing lady....don't settle for less than "best" and be prepared to say "NO"........it is your right after all.

Intimacy for me means the sharing of ideals and innermost thoughts without fear of ridicule or indifference from the one you are being intimate with.Of course it also includes murmurred words of love and caresses........

Posted by: kurli at August 18, 2008 4:28 PM

Yes musicteacher ..... there IS more to men than the obvious.

Posted by: woodnwine at August 18, 2008 3:22 PM

Kaz - the veges HAVE to be roasted.

Posted by: woodnwine at August 18, 2008 2:42 PM

Iaminperth............I think there would be some men who say/believe intimacy was more than just sex......there IS more to men than the obvious...I am sure many of them "love" being hugged,held,being able to share an interest/activity......enjoy/appreciate a woman's mystique..............hey,where are these men???...

any here?

Posted by: musicteacher at August 18, 2008 2:26 PM

espritlibrefemme, I do applaud you for giving it a go so wholeheartedly, putting yourself out there and expecting the best....
I don't think intimacy and commitment are the same thing, but for a relationship to work both need to be present. Even if it isn't a "until death do us part" type of commitment, but at least a commitment to give things the best shot whilst you're in the relationship, for however long. Of course, it just doesn't work if only one person is willing to do that, and the other not....

Posted by: malsie at August 18, 2008 2:19 PM

Perth, it's all high fibre lo-cal dining..... ah, who am l kidding, l love to do a roast lamb, though usually do steam the veg, apart from the spuds. The gravy only goes on the meat though, one of my silly things............K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 18, 2008 1:50 PM

I think intimacy must be given ..... it can't be taken. Sometimes however, it can be coaxed.

Posted by: woodnwine at August 18, 2008 1:43 PM

Well it appears everyone on here is right, intimacy does not require commitment.
I am glad that I have courage and can give things a go, even if they tumble and fall...life without events would be no life at all (the searcher previously known as joyfuldelite).

Posted by: espritlibrefemme at August 18, 2008 12:49 PM

I think is intimacy is all about knowing what your real needs are and whether or not they're being met on an ongoing basis. Just as an example, I'm generally, very sensitive to people's tone of voice; if I sense that it is detached at all, I get suspicious.

Posted by: capriciousimp at August 18, 2008 12:34 PM

Kaz, With all your wonderful food are you really a chunky monkey at the moment. I think everything I eat these days just puts on weight. I would love to eat roast lamb with home made gravy but don't think I would dare at the moment. Mine is more steamed veges with chicken or fish at the moment, nice but no match for your delicious meals.

Posted by: iaminperth at August 18, 2008 12:22 PM

Thanks K......
All from a friendship point of view as I have been touched by quite a lot of you.
Rod

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 18, 2008 12:18 PM

Generally MT I think that is what most people would think. I am pretty sure if you asked a bloke what is intimacy, he would just say sex. If you were to ask a lot of women what is intimacy, they would be describing feelings etc., Of course, there is a clash, so really is it a question to ask or just see where the relationship leads and respect each other as individuals.

Posted by: iaminperth at August 18, 2008 12:06 PM

TD, aw, you have been busy learning the words to Heart of Gold. ;-) How lovely!!
Just about my favorite Neil Young song as well as Old Man and Cinnamon Girl.
A glass of bubbly to you TD!!............K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 18, 2008 11:57 AM

outbackdrifter Thanks mate. I hope we all have those feelings again. One day.

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 18, 2008 11:41 AM

Now it's just the other 6000 steps I have to take. Suppose I'll have to by myself a sea-going Kayak as well. :)

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 18, 2008 11:33 AM

K........ One step closer to sitting in front of the fire, glass of red, and that roast lamb with mint jelly and your home made gravy.

I want to live, I want to give.
I've been a miner for a heart of gold.
It's these expressions I never give.
That keep me searching for a heart of gold.

I've been to Hollywood, I've been to Redwood
I've crossed the ocean for a heart of gold.
I've been in my mind, it's such a fine line.
That keeps me searching for a heart of gold.
And I'm getting old.......
:)

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 18, 2008 11:26 AM

If a policeman asks you if you have had an "intimate" relationship with him/her he is asking if you have had a sexual relationship.

Intimacy to me means lots of body contact,sex,touching,kissing,cuddling...a physical connection.

Hopefully your attraction,closeness,trust,"connection" with the person makes your physical intimacy more intense.

Posted by: musicteacher at August 18, 2008 11:11 AM

TD, that is one of the (many) lovely things about you, that you can have those feelings, be in touch with them, and also express them openly - in effect making yourself quite vulnerable - I admire that! xx

Posted by: malsie at August 18, 2008 9:25 AM

I think when the lines of intimacy get blurred with neediness problems start to happen.
Again there are many levels and what one person may perceive to be intimate another will perceive to be needy. I think if you were to ask 10 people the same question you would get 10 totally different answers and I tend to believe any true intimacy would only come after knowing the person for quite a long time.

Posted by: iaminperth at August 18, 2008 9:24 AM

Posted by: junebaby57 at August 18, 2008 7:34 AM : "I don't think I am greedy, I don't think anyone is by wanting to have that "one" in thier lives. But is it harder to achieve the older we get.....cause I have met many men in the last 18 months, some lovely men, but still not the one meant for me!!! Is he still out there????"

ive wondered the same thing myself & experienced similar outcomes with rsvp & the real world in recent times. its not all about just the physical or just the intellectual connection, its that mix of everything that im looking for.

to me, true intimacy is not about sex, its about knowing you can trust the person you are with to let your feelings show without the fear that you are going to get hurt.

Posted by: kisskat at August 18, 2008 8:51 AM

unknownauthor ~ 11.39 PM. Things do get in the way. That's life. But for true connectedness on all levels surely these are the times when that deep bond comes to the fore. You are there for each other on the deepest of levels.

Some wonderful stuff has been written here. It is hard to say anymore. I guess for me, I see the perfect relationship as a connection Physically, Mentally, Spiritually, Emotionally, and Sexually. Can we have all that? Does anyone have all that? Surely yes. Maybe over time it grows to that. Maybe over time it grows away from that.

It's possible to have some or all of these things with your partner. It's also possible to be fulfilled by others in your life. (Friends, family, mentors.) And this can be sustaining to complete ones self. True happiness comes from so many sources.

Tassiedude ~ As others have said, so beautifully written. That really is love.

I have sat and thought deeply about what has been written here. Thanks for sharing so much guys.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at August 18, 2008 8:32 AM

I have been doing some catch up reading, and there is so much here I can relate to. Tassidude said it best !!!!!

It is soooo hard to get the intimacy on all the levels I need , to get to relationship status.
I want the meeting of the minds AND the meeting of the bodies....that will blow my mind AND the cultural meeting, like shared interests, some similar background, likes and dislikes AND the wanting to be with that person, even when you are not together, like Tassie said, you think of something and it brings a smile to your face. True intimacy and love, which will lead to committement, because you both want it at the same time.

And I have found that this is really really hard to achieve, sometimes I meet the mind connection, sometimes I meet the sexual connection, or the cultural, but I only ever get 2 out of 3 type thing , (I know a song...meatloaf) which doesn't give me what I really want....THE one that is meant for me!!!

I don't think I am greedy, I don't think anyone is by wanting to have that "one" in thier lives. But is it harder to achieve the older we get.....cause I have met many men in the last 18 months, some lovely men, but still not the one meant for me!!! Is he still out there????

Just my thoughts on a cold Monday morning...jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at August 18, 2008 7:34 AM

lovetolaugh57, get in line....:-)...........K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 17, 2008 11:47 PM

piscesgirl56 at August 17, 2008 8:15 PM wrote all excellent stuff, but I specially liked "I would agree with heart2heart that commitment and intimacy are not the same thing. However, I would argue that true intimacy between the couples results in long term commitment! We can live in a dysfunctional marriage for decades where the intimacy is nonexistent - because we are committed to the MARRIAGE or/and our partner..."

That resonated with me because I've been there myself. My wife and I had wonderful intimacy at first (mainly cultural, intellectual and emotional) which got me deeply committed to her and to the resulting marriage.

But once we had children, she transferred her whole focus onto them (it seemed to me) and I was left alone to earn the money, keep on with upgrading my qualifications at Uni at night, and help her with the housework and children in my spare time if any.

To stay dedicated to her and the marriage, with no corresponding energy input that I could see from her, into the marriage itself, or to support me even emotionally as her partner.

PG56 went on: "My limited experience suggests that it is not enough that I am committed and willing to give my full part to that developing intimacy with my partner - It has to go both ways unfortunately...If you give your best and the other is not moving, you are beating the dead horse, it's not your fault - you need to recognise when to cut your losses...:) "

Again I agree. And in foresight, not just in hindsight. So now I'm looking primarily for someone (whoever she is) who is as dedicated as I am to supporting her partner (whoever he is) with an ongoing input of energy into the relationship that matches mine. No more one-way traffic.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 17, 2008 11:40 PM

of course intimacy is hard. haven't you all realized that there are things that get in the way.

Like banks, mortgages, kids, schools, sports, credit cards, boyfriends, girlfriends, pap smears prostrate tests, alcohol, phone bills, the price of petrol.

This is really a no brainer.

Posted by: unknownauthor at August 17, 2008 11:39 PM

hello everyone - longtime lurker here could I please have a "tassiedude" or "htoh" pleeeaase. Didnt know what I was looking for until I read these recent posts lol - got any brothers in Melbourne???

Posted by: lovetolaugh57 at August 17, 2008 9:27 PM

TD you gave us all the tingles l think.........K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 17, 2008 8:18 PM

Malsie: about my ex love who had fear from intimacy: I was wondering just like you did why on earth did I hang on to that relationship so long? For almost 2 years! I came to the conslusion that I really loved that man and I knew deep down that it was mutual, he suffered too from his own fear to accept the love he needed and wanted...it is hard to leave when I feel that beautiful part of him which he tries so hard to reject in order to avoid getting hurt...I was hoping that my love will eventually win, that he will learn to trust that it is OK and safe to open up...it is hard to leave a person who you love and who you understand, when you have that soul 'connection' with him ( "Tassiedude' described the feeling so beautifully )...you just keep going until you are so drained emotionally that you cannot continue and just know that it's time to move on - these men who are scared to give and scared to be intimate are very draining and unless they become aware of their true problem, not even love can save them...heartbreaking, isn't it?

When I see children being abused and neglected by their parents, what I feel is true emotional pain, because I know how much suffering is waiting for them later on (self estemm problem, relationship problems on all levels) and it's not their fault, it's not their fault that they were born either...

"Timewarp - I am sorry if I sound a bit complicated, I need this feedback to watch how I express myself so people can understand. I will try to use simple ways to explain my ideas (they are based on my personal experiences not scientific theories), because I would like to hear what others' points are. That's how we make sense of our experiences anyway - by sharing with others

Joyfuldelight: I would agree with hert2heart that commitment and intimacy are not the same thing. However, I would argue that true intimacy between the couples results in long term commitment! We can live in a dysfunctional marriage for decades where the intimacy is nonexistent - because we are committed to the MARRIAGE or/and our partner...I wish you all the best! My linited experience suggests that it is not enough that I am committed and willing to give my full part to that developing intimacy with my partner - It has to go both ways unfortunately...If you give your best and the other is not moving, you are beating the dead horse, it's not your fault - you need to recognise when to cut your losses...:)
"Tassidude" - well said! I know what you are talking about! That's Love I would say!

Kaz: yes, there are different dimensions of intimacy, and in a really good relationship people are intimate on several dimensions: I heard that some couples can be sexually very intimate yet deeply unhappy because the psychological intimacy is missing...or they have that spiritual intimacy strong but the sexual and psychological intimacy (when both partners can talk openly about their deepest needs, feelings, fears without being ridiculed, criticized, rejected) are missing and they are unhappy...usually when people are not intimate on psychological, spiritual and emotional level sexual intimacy stopps too...

Heart 2 heart - thank you for letting me know about those "kisses", I did not know about those options!

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 17, 2008 8:15 PM

I have a problem logging into these blogs, this just a test post

Posted by: hobart212hal2000 at August 17, 2008 8:08 PM

Tassiedude, Thank you.........you have sum up exactly how it is to me, I funny you know up till now I never been able to put that feeling to words but you have nail it in a few simple sentences, its the most amazing/scary feeling you will ever have.
I have only ever felt this feeling only once in my life & I hope like hell that I will feel it again, becourse when you lost the person that you feel that way about for one reason or an other, it leave huge empty feeling that you yearn to fill

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 17, 2008 4:51 PM

Oh... but what a fantastic way to 'lose control' Tassie...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 17, 2008 3:18 PM

That's beautiful, Tassiedude.

Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 3:08 PM

Intimacy for me doesn't necessarily mean we have to be together. I feel it equally when we are apart. Kinda like that itch that I just cant scratch. It's the thought of her in the back of my mind that keeps flooding in when I'm trying not to think or just doing something completely inane. Getting that feeling of an inner chuckle and you realise you're standing there grinning like a fool because you have just remembered something funny the two of you have done. Thinking about her just before you fall asleep.
It's that scary feeling when you begin to realise you are about to lose "control" of all those emotions you have just managed to bottle up, hide, and even tried to forget existed.

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 17, 2008 2:48 PM

Hmmm.... I'm not sure that I would put Intimacy and Commitment in the same basket. Intimacy is a about feelings. Commitment is about dedication. You can one without the other. The two together are part of the basis of a 'relationship', but are themselves individual entities. I we say we can't have Intimacy without Commitment, we are putting a boundary on our feelings. Feelings are just that: Feelings. To put conditions on them can prevent them from growing. Is that what we're after?

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 17, 2008 1:27 PM

Pisces - I too would like to use RSVP as a vehicle to extend my social network, and to meet new same-sex friends. Shock horror if a bloke should ever receive a kiss from me, or vice versa. LoL. I guess the only way to do that at the moment is attend some of the RSVP do's.

I'm not sure if you're in RSVip or not, but there is a "kiss" available there that says "thought he/she would say hi". If one coupled that with a short comment in one's profile to say that if you receive this kind of kiss from me, please accept it as an extension of friendship, rather than a 'sexual' interest, as you so eloquently put it. Just a thought...

I might even try that myself, but I can still see the hackles standing up on the back of the neck of some guy I "kiss" :)

(Gawd, we're a homophobic lot sometimes, aren't we?). LMAO.

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 17, 2008 1:03 PM

piscesgirl - sorry for the confusion and glad you understand now! Actually, a lot of us have made friends via the blogs, male and female. We've all found it a rather surprising and delightful offshoot of the "dating" game...

I related fully to the story you told of the guy with the past emotional traumas. I saw that with the relationship the person I mentioned had with his mother, who was extremely controlling. Intimacy and commitment to him felt like drowning - feelings akin to being swamped by his mother's needs and demands. Consequently he couldn't be with me for longer than 6 months at a time before feeling the need to pull away (and not particularly intimate in the time we were together). Why of course I kept attempting the impossible to get past that point is another question in itself, I suppose...

Posted by: malsie at August 17, 2008 12:56 PM

Being intimate with someone in a relationship for me is a connection between mind and body, sex is just that, sex and without the connection will never be anything but.

Sexual intimacy and emotional intimacy are linked, with the emotional connection of far greater importance, to me anyway.

Some talk of spiritual connections, l don't really place that into a separate category, as l think it is encompassed within the emotions that l feel, that is just me l guess and we are all different.

I have certainly read others views with growing interest and understanding of everyones thoughts and ability/willingness to share them.........................K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 17, 2008 12:48 PM

Joyfuldelite - Fantastic! Good luck with it all and I'm glad you'll still be on the blogs to share your wisdom.

Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 12:30 PM

Lots of interesting comments on true intimacy.I see many different types at work but for me it was always the holy trinity ie..mental..physical and spiritual which continued pretty much constantly for 25 years.Altho not a religious person,spiritual seemed to be the strongest one within the 3,with mutual respect being the guiding factor.

Joyful,you are obviously a very educated and articulate woman but i think you really need to moderate all that overthinking on whether you are crossing some imaginary line and let your inner animal take control.

If you can't have some devil may care fun at our age when the hell are you going to.?

With regard to changing anyone..well gl with that,you either connect with them the way they are or move along.Sure you can tinker around the edges and maybe get them to modify a few minor 'glitches' but overall people get set in their ways early on in life.

Anyway it seems to be one of the more interesting blogs so prompting me to comment.
regards Mark...(not marcus) ;p no offence old boy.

Posted by: rustysteed at August 17, 2008 1:24 AM

Intimacy is definitely about COMMITMENT. I've made one now and it took sooo much courage, but the alternative was that I would be running scared all the time. Better to have potential hurt than no feelings....The initmacy I refer to is definitely emotional - as far as I can see, the other aspects of so-called intimacy are poor reflections of the emotional reaching out and being open to someone, and making a commitment to work on relating to him as maybe the special one I want to spend your tomorrows with.....my profile is changed, now only for those who are friends, those on these blogs know who I mean - and thanks to everyone for giving me so much knowledge, so generously, as that as helped me really focus on my own fears and get ready for this person, and for the commitment.
Don't know how long it will last, but none of us really do, do we? I do know I want it to last a very, very long time so will strive to work hard at it, and to keep looking at myself and where my fears get in the way....commitment, communication and compromise, those vital c's of developing a relationship.
Thanks again for so much help. I'll still be blogging, and still have my profile up so that I am not an unknown when I do.

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 16, 2008 11:36 PM

bm1960 at August 16, 2008 6:57 PM : Forgot to ask - what did you think of what I wrote at 6.26pm, in between the grooming asides in my first and last lines that you chose to rubbish?

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 16, 2008 11:08 PM

piscesgirl56 at August 16, 2008 1:16 PM: Always really impressed with what you write, but the cider is telling me it's all too complicated to think about, just at this moment.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 16, 2008 11:04 PM

bm1960 at August 16, 2008 6:57 PM : Glad you were so impressed ma'am. For your information only, he also trims my ear and nose hairs, including the hairs on the outside of my nose, from when it was a bit of my neck skin. I can't see them.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 16, 2008 10:55 PM

ah, intimacy...yes....there are many facets that make up intimacy. I think there is also many different kinds of intimacy. For instance, there is the intimacy of sharing the birth of a child - I don't think I will ever be sharing that with anyone again, I have shared that with my ex 3 times and although we are no longer intimate in any other way, those experiences will remain ours.
There is the intimacy of sharing the death of family. There is the intimacy of sharing the heart break of your child...mopping up their tears and restoring their self worth.
There is the intimacy of giving for the sake of giving your whole because that's what you want to do whether it's returned or not. and then there is the encouragement you give to your partner to go and fulfil their dreams. Intimacy and love are intertwined, they involve integrity, pride, abandon and trust. The greatest being the ability/trust/love to let your partner go.
cheers, not a mirage, Manda.

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 16, 2008 10:09 PM

Joyfuldelite:
*And drone, accusing us of being Pollyannas, socially and intellectually immature strikes me as a very Kohutian reflective statement....turn the mirror on yourself, mate. If you go and read the profiles of other bloggers to come back on the blog and send out mass criticism, you are the social equivalent of the scared kid who ends up being the school bully...it's easy to insult masses over the internet, much harder to think before you type, as you would in a more face-to-face social interaction, ie, with social and intellectual maturity.*

Actually, I haven't really paid a great deal of attention to the bloggers' profiles. But from what I have seen I would say that on the whole they are more authentic-sounding than those I read in my target range, which is not surprising, since the bloggers tend to be in a more mature age range. (i.e., mostly over 40). Think of what I said as general social commentary, which of course, you are free to disagree with.

If I were actually the equivalent of a scared little kid cum school-bully, I don't think I would have taken with any degree of equanimity the fairly tactless and condescending tone of some of the critiques of my profile. But, as you so rightly observe, people are emboldened by the internet to say things in a way they never would do in real life.

Anyway, bye for now, and see you all in a couple of months :)

Posted by: drone at August 16, 2008 8:47 PM

" malsie" I am glad you posted this comment, because I got such a 'confusing' kiss today and my first thought was -why cannot we make friends with same sex people who we find very interesting, despite the fact that RSVP is a dating site? I too wish there is opportunity for such communication on RSVP... it's a shame that these 'kisses' were introduced for expressing 'sexual' interest in others. Thank you for your comment!

As about people pulling back from too close connectedness...I have experienced that in the past too. The person wanted to be loved so much, but when he felt he was loved and accepted he pulled himself away, when I distanced he tried to pull me back...he was abused as a child, his mother's love was situational and inconsistent - he was provided with money and things but he never learned that love means emotional availability, nurturing, giving, listening, validating, hugs and warm tap on the shoulder...so he never learned the value of real emotional connectednes/intimacy even though he longed for it deep down...intimacy made him anxious - it felt 'abnormal', unreal, fake...coupled with no self awareness, he could not help himself, could not trust that he was truly loved...so many people miss out on true love because of these reasons. Early childhood traumas can be very damaging for life...

TW - I really enjoy reading your postings! You are a very insightful person! And I read some of Eric Berne's books including "Games people play"...aren't they excellent? Transactional analysis is amazing!

heart2heart - lovely, deep thoughts! Thanks for sharing them with us! You are so spot on when you say that self understanding and acceptance of the way we really are is the key indeed...well said... if we hate ourselves we will create problems in our relationships as well, because those traits we dislike in ourselves we tend to project into others ...if I am not aware that I am angry I will provoke others' anger and than say"see, he is always angry, not me! He is the bad one!"... it's good to have an other self aware, loving and caring person nearby who can wake me up, challenge me with a short comment like " stop! What are you doing?" That way we can change in positive way...

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 16, 2008 8:38 PM

Fellow, bloggers, I sent the following idea to RSVP today, I would value your feedback:

I have, what I think, is an incredible idea for RSVP

My idea is that, each profile, could have a 'Secret Crush List', which is not visible to other profiles. But, if a profile wants to check if they are on another profiles 'Secret Crush List', then, if they are logged in, they can click on a button on that profile to see if they are on that profiles 'Secret Crush List'.

It would take the difficulty out of deciding whether or not to send a 'kiss' or email etc.

(perhaps it could not only be 'secret crush's', but 'likes' or 'is interested in' etc )

Posted by: hobart212hal2000 at August 16, 2008 8:21 PM

Nice to hear about your personal grooming habits TW....I guess you aren't so busy after all.....
Geez....
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at August 16, 2008 6:57 PM

It seems from reading these posts that intimacy, like many things, is many layered. The more you contemplate the subject, more facets are revealed. I know also from experience that some people have real issues with intimacy; that if you get too close, that's when they back off or put the barriers up. I had an ex like that once, and never felt I really got to any great feeling of intimacy together. Could be the reason he's an ex, I suppose??

As an aside, to any new bloggers on here, if you get a "kiss" from an "inappropriate" fellow blogger in terms of what you're looking for in a partner, please know it's a friendly "hello, you sound like a lovely person" kind of kiss (and unless you are an RSVip member there are currently no options to say that) - so do not be alarmed :)

Posted by: malsie at August 16, 2008 6:42 PM

Just back for a moment, between haircut and dinnner date. Joyful wrote this morning: "....now can anyone comment on the second part of that query, ie, appropriate BOUNDARIES with regards to intimacy.... what is acceptable (generally) as the limits/boundaries to being intimate?

Any woman who has ever had a guy intimate (verb) that she is 'loose' will get what I am talking about, ie, the seduction that took two was 'all her fault' because he really wanted to protect himself from such a predatory beast, so she was going outside his boundaries..."

My comment: Are there blokes who really go on like that, if you're a bit red-blooded?

"Mummy, a naughty girl kissed me down behind the school toilets! On the mouth, the brazen hussy!!!! Let me sit on your lap while I get over the embarrassment!"

Timid little wimps! They should be over the moon with gratitude that you were a bit fair dinkum. Especially as it was you! Obvious self-esteem mismatch. Next!!!

She went on "...same as if she expressed feelings and he just did not want to know..."

My comment: Read what I said at 10.45pm 15th. You want a relationship where sharing feelings is a significant item on the couple's agenda. Do you say so in your profile? Need to.

If he's uncomfortable about that, he is seriously lacking in bandwidth at the Sharing-Feelings frequency, and doesn't deserve you. Next!!!

You went on: "...the real problem with intimacy, as far as I can see, is when it is considered 'breached' by one of the parties...then it is 'invasion/intrusion' or something 'bad'...

My comment: That's because they're totally intimidated at meeting a real amazon, so they immediately go underdog-manipulative, to try to make you feel like a feral cow rampaging in their china shop.

From memory, Dr Eric Berne calls that frequently-played intimacy-sabotaging 'game' "Blemish". Read it in his book "Games People Play".

To stop all this nonsense and its repeated hurts to your tender heart, I suggest you stop dating wimps. Write a slightly more challenging profile, overflowing the Perfect Partner profile into the very first paragraph of your general blurb, to give you room to spell out what characteristics and behaviours you consider to be needed by your match. That should save the sexual and/or emotional wimps from reading any further.

I'm only sorry that you're 4 or 5 years younger than the women I'm dating this week, or I'd put a kiss where my keyboard is.

Shave time now, and Thai tonight. Seeyez.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 16, 2008 6:26 PM

Interesting thoughts Pisces. The general gist developing here is that we are what we are, and it takes time to understand that. It's pretty difficult to change something that we are not aware of. To be able to do that, we need to understand ourselves. We spend a lifetime of learning all sorts of things - how much time to we spend learning about ourselves?

Once we open up to ourselves, we find all sorts of things. Things we like, things we don't like about 'me'. If you don't know it's broken, you can't fix it. But then again, does it really need to be fixed? One likes red, another likes blue - those kinds of things define who we are. They are our choices, and don't need to be validated to or by anyone else. These kinds of things just need to be accepted. It is what it is.

If it's fundamentally destructive, then perhaps it could do with a bit of a mend. That can only happen if one is aware of it, and more importantly, if one chooses to do anything about it. How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? One. But the light bulbs got to want to change.

Everyone has different needs and wants, and at different levels. These are often quite malleable, and we can be drawn to things we never liked before, or skew away from things we used to love. That's the beauty in life itself - nothing is set in concrete. Where we go and what we do is really up to us. When you look into deeply enough, there is no reason anyone has to continue in a situation that they are not happy or comfortable with. That's a whole other issue and perhaps a good new Blog topic, but drifting away from the subject at hand - Intimacy.

Intimacy is one of those cyclic gifts - you have to give it to get it. But by the same token, it's not necessarily a boomerang. That comes down to whom we choose to be with. Again, finding someone on a similar wavelength. Someone who we can grow with, share with, and nurture each other with. Become two peas in the same pod. That's not to say living in each others pockets - we all need to pursue the things we hold dear.

Deep intimacy can be found when we connect with our partner on all 3 planes - physical, emotional, and spiritual. If we step into it afraid of losing power (another good Blog topic), we probably won't get too far. Intimacy can exist without love, and vice versa, but to have the two together is divine.

To be in love, we have to have a loving heart, and be with someone that shares similar love. And we have to love ourselves...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 16, 2008 4:23 PM

"auntycaz" - I agree with you, our basic values must never be compromised in any situation, not even in a workplace, because that results in resentment, unhappyness and losing one's integrity!

Changing ourselves to adjust to the other's expectations is completely wrong too - but we have done that all our lives from the moment we were born...we tried to please parents, than siblings, than peers, than partners, than teachers, than bosses at work ect...simply because of the fear from rejection. So realistically: are we really authentic today?? I find that individuals with healthy self esteem and sense of self worth are closest to their authentic selves...

Anyway, when I suggested that striving to meet the partner's needs is necessary for the true intimacy to develop, I did not mean losing integrity, values ect for the other. Not about 'hard work" (that would be so draining!) either, not changing our lifestyles either. I was talking about NEEDS which are psychological and emotional.

Heart2 heart you said it nicely: we CHOOSE to be with a certain person. The point is to grow in that relationship ouf our choice in a positive way - and growth is about change and adjustment and learning new skills! Both partners change in a relationship over the time, whether they are aware of it or not. There will be always differences and the trick is to MUTUALLY integrate those differences in our own self - rateher than allowing them to destroy the relationship (within reasonable limits of course).

Usually we attract partners (its subconscious) who are different - like I am functioning more from my emotional side, and I get attracted to men who are more practical...I need to integrate more practicality into my functioning, he needs to learn to be more sensitive...or I like a lot of physical contact, the other needs less - I need to balance out my clingy nature, he needs to learn that spending more time together is
actually beneficial rather than sign of losing control...by meeting each other needs we both grow and become more balanced...what do you think?

I certainly am not for losing integrity, values and belives in a relationship, that's just not the purpose. The purpose is to feel comfortable, safe, understood
and fully accpeted AS WE ARE so we could realise all our inner potentials as much as possible. To bring out the very best from the other and vice versa

There must be a balnce between accepting ourselves /the other person and changing what needs to be changed. It's notlove when I know that my 'ways' of relating are hurtful for my partner but I stick to those hurtful ways just because that's how I am? Or vice versa...

I look forward to others' opinions, I am curious what you all think about the matter.

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 16, 2008 1:16 PM

Yup Kaz. If we don't love ourselves, we can't possibly expect to love another. I don't mean the conceited ego driven "they love themselves" kind, I mean the "I'm at peace with myself" kind.

And I'm not saying we shouldn't change - we spend a lifetime changing. Through learning and growing. Through experience. Through rational and irrational thinking. Through feelings and emotions. Through pain and joy. Through just "being".

We are from where we've come from.

Now, if two people hook up with each other, and they're both on that same wavelength of 'change', there's a good chance that they can experience true love, true intimacy. Because they accept each other for what they are. There maybe something that narks us about our partner, but if we accept that for what it is, a nark, we can move on and go deeper into the cycle.

Trying to change a basic trait in someone rarely works, especially if that person sees it coming. The shutters can go up, and all hope is lost. Unless of course, it's something that the person is aware of and *wants* to adapt in a different way. If not, we have two basic choices. Learn to understand and accept it, or choose again...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 16, 2008 12:19 PM

Heart2heart, yes l think that you are correct in what you said so well at 10.18 this am.
I think the the hard work lays in being ourselves, and not what someone else wants us to be.
Changing oneself for the acceptance of another is not being our true self, rather a poor imitation.
How many of us have really been purely true to who we are?? I think the honest answer is probably not many.
Does being with another mean that we have to change the way we live, love and are??
Absolutely not!
Our basic core values should never be compromised.
Oh goodness me, l am not usually so reflective............................K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 16, 2008 11:37 AM

I think that's the whole point - it's not about meeting anyone else's needs. As soon as we start doing that, we become subserviant. It becomes a job, not a relationship. We should do things because we want to, not because we need to. Meeting someone elses needs is not being intimate. Far from it.

A relationship is more about two people travelling along parallel paths, rather than "I'll do this for you if you do this for me". That's not to say each partner doesn't "put in". Or that we don't adapt.

Intimacy is only one part of a relationship. Intimacy can exist without love, and love without intimacy. Throw trust, loyalty and respect in there as well. And probably a few others too.

Now, finding someone that has all those qualities that are on the same level as our own is indeed rare.We can grow into these things, as much as we can grow out of them too.

I've often heard that relationships are hard work. They shouldn't be. We need to remain ourselves, not become what someone else wants us to be. And we need to keep learning and growing ourselves. We need to "be".

An we have to remember we have "choice". Our partner is not foisted upon us, it is someone whom we have chosen to be with. Choose wisely...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 16, 2008 10:18 AM

I must correct my last comment - it was for "timewarp" 's description of intimacy, and not "joyfuldelight"'s. Sorry!

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 16, 2008 10:11 AM

Joyfuldelight, you said it all right - that's exactly what intimacy is and to achieveit in a relationship it should go both ways. The difficulty is in finding a partner who has the same goal - to become 'whole' through meeting the partner's need in an unselfish way. If one of the partners is a giver most of the time and the other is a receiver, that's draining and that needed intimacy is missing from the relationship...
"Drone" - do not worry too much about your sense of humor, your hair cut or dressing style...You would benefit more from strengthening your self esteem, understanding who you are and be comfortable about it. I am sure you are just perfect as a person the way you are.

If you do not feel comfortable in your 'skin', you will talk, dress and behave the way that will reflect your insecurities.

I've read most of the messages on this board and I am amazed by your humility and inner strength to ignore all that nonsense and put downs said under the excuse of 'constructive criticisam'. There is a lot more to you as a person than all those superficial things mentioned.

You will attract the right person in due time, just be patient and positive about it. Maybe you need to look outside RSVP as well to meet that special lady - RSVP is not the best option for everybody.

You do not need your self esteem to be damaged by people who have no idea about who you are. I would suggest you to ask all your friends and people who know you well to write down 5 things about you that they really like and 5 things they do not like - that's constructive criticisam. You will have a better idea what you need to change and where your strenghs are.

I wish you all the best in your search! :))

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 16, 2008 9:23 AM

Sometimes we can live with people for years but never be truly intimate. Intimacy requires trust and committment, openness and honesty. We must never take advantage of our partner's vulnerability, for intimacy can only be experienced when both partners feel safe.

Posted by: country47 at August 16, 2008 12:40 AM

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 15, 2008 10:45 PM - TW, sometimes your comments are incredibly insightful. Coupled with the latter part of Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 15, 2008 7:19 PM these are the attributes of an amazing relationship, traditional or otherwise, that every woman or man deserves. Thank you.

Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 16, 2008 12:21 AM

By the way, those of you who are infatuated by the words of the mule, his originality and intellect... I suggest you visit his profile and throw some of the prhrases in his "interests" section into google.

I think you will find the results edifying.

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 11:59 PM

but drone I did get your joke....that had to be said tongue-in-cheek, particularly the bit about the inappropriate toilet activities. Re-read my entire return blog comment now in the light of knowing it was a return joke.

EVERYONE: Thanks for all the comments on intimacy....now can anyone comment on the second part of that query, ie, appropriate BOUNDARIES with regards to intimacy - that is the crux of the problem for me, not what being intimate is about but what is acceptable (generally) as the limits/boundaries to being intimate...

Any woman who has ever had a guy intimate (verb) that she is 'loose' will get what I am talking about, ie, the seduction that took two was 'all her fault' because he really wanted to proteact himself from such a predatory beast, so she was going outside his boundaries...same as if she expressed feelings and he just did not want to know...the real problem with intimacy, as far as I can see, is when it is considered 'breached' by one of the parties...then it is 'invasion/intrusion' or something 'bad'...intimacy seems to be the point at which comfort zones collided, and sometimes they seem to match and other times they seem to drastically over-step acceptability.... wish I could get some better understanding of how this happens...

And drone, accusing us of being Pollyannas, socially and intellectually immature strikes me as a very Kohutian reflective statement....turn the mirror on yourself, mate. If you go and read the profiles of other bloggers to come back on the blog and send out mass criticism, you are the social equivalent of the scared kid who ends up being the school bully...it's easy to insult masses over the internet, much harder to think before you type, as you would in a more face-to-face social interaction, ie, with social and intellectual maturity.

(I think the word you are searching for is touche.)

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 15, 2008 11:09 PM

joyfuldelite at August 15, 2008 5:53 PM asked "What is involved in opening yourself up to intimacy?" That's a deep one. Some initial thoughts, hopefully for comment by others:

* Wanting to know what makes the other person happy; wanting to help make those things/situations happen as often as possible and for as long as possible, and putting significant effort into making them happen.

* Wanting to know what causes the other person to feel bad in some way or other; wanting to help avoid those things/situations, and putting significant effort into stopping them from happening.

* Wanting to live openly, with no secrets from the other person that would be upsetting if found out, or divisive even if not found out.

* Being brave enough to let the other person see your best self, warts and all, with no pretense. And trying to be your best self all the time.

* Being brave enough to let the other person see your vulnerabilities, especially in areas where seeing that would give them the ammunition to hurt you, if they chose that cruel path.

* Giving a high priority to keeping in touch with the other person's feelings and current mood, and to behaving appropriately so as to have the best possible effect on that mood.

* Believing that the other person's happiness is as important as our own.

* And knowing that our self-worth requires the other person to reciprocate as above. Or if they won't or can't, to require them to release us from the inequitable relationship, so we can seek a better one that repays our giving with their similar giving.

That's quite enough from me.

And yes, I have set the bar pretty high. Because that's what I'm offering myself to the right woman for the long term, and everyone deserves their match. (Appropriately lower standards for pairs of gorillas.)

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 15, 2008 10:45 PM

Posted by: kurli at August 15, 2008 8:07 PM:
Someone else who didn't get the joke...

Look, I do understand it is sometimes difficult to convey a sense of humour over the internet.

But when joydelite didn't get the joke, I knew immediately that I could disregard her other comments about my profile being dull and Eeyore-ish. (Her remarks about the photos were on the mark, though.)

I think we simply have different senses of humour, and that doesn't come across on the internet so easily. I was having a few drinks with some friends tonight, and the whole inner child thing came up, and I basically rehearsed the joke I presented on here (as it was ready in my mind) and they all laughed heaps at it.

The last woman I met said she read my profile and thought I would be fun and interesting to talk to. I think my main problem there was lack of recent practice with dating, rather than anything else... the conversation was great, but the other "romantic" stuff that I am apparently supposed to project as a male wasn't so good.

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 10:31 PM

Kurli @ 8.07pm- you read my mind and wrote it much more eloquently than I would have.

Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 10:22 PM

willow29 at August 15, 2008 9:15 AM: Interesting point. Maybe we've all been taught to start a snailmail "Dear recipient" which in email becomes "Hi Jill".

So when you don't know the name, maybe you feel you need to insert some generic term after the "Hi".

But I agree - if the generic term he chooses is Hi babe it grates as much as Hi doll or Hi chick, and that would fire me up, as much as it would the Bomber. Sounds patronising.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 15, 2008 9:18 PM

soliloquist at August 15, 2008 1:22am did not say "Love was more about friendship and thoughtfullness than vandalising the bedpost." But it is in her excellent profile, and I think it's spot on about intimacy.

And what a charming metaphor, befitting a poet. But I personally believe the bedpost is far from the best place to carve your tally.

Because I've always felt that anywhere that's away from home is a more romantic place for a bit of this and that.

And I'm still too light on my feet so far to need to keep a gold-handled cane with me, so I'm thinking of starting a new craze - leather-punching another hole in the waist-belt each time.

I recently bought another book of stamps, and I'm now busy using them up, so I have a lot less time for blogging. Just read this one from the start, and it's so nice to see that the general tone is so supportive at the moment. Goodonyerzall.

Posted by: timewarp1 at August 15, 2008 9:08 PM

One more observation about this whole process. Yes, I know I have been extraordinarily unsuccessful, but still...

I read the profiles on here, and, yes, they are all trying to put things in the best light... so much so that it is, really, often unbelievable.

We don't live in a Pollyanna-ish world where everything is great, and everyone is great. People strive so hard on here to put up their brave face, but the simple fact is that most people feel that there is something missing in their life; there is a emptiness that they want filled (otherwise, they wouldn't be on here), and yet this can't be spoken about.

I read most of the profiles, and there is, really, a distinct smell about a lot of them (not all of them, but a lot of them) - something not quite right. Personally, I find it sad that we seem to have to engage in some wallpapering job to be acceptable. We are socially and intellectually immature.

I write a lot of songs, and goodness knows, if my life was the perfect image that a lot of people are projecting here, there'd be nothing to write about. The world is a world of light and shade, and without the shade, there'd be much less of the great literature, art, and music that exists. Everyone has sadness in their life, and it is part of the human condition. But on this site, it seems that this must all be brushed aside in favour of the latest self-help fads, and positive-talk crap.

I don't want to be a positive thinker. I don't want to be a negative thinker either. I would like to work towards being an accurate thinker. Positive thought is as just as much a delusion (albeit a socially-sanctioned delusion) as negative thought.

Perhaps that is why I liked aquamanda56's profile. It really did seem genuine, and not a PR job. Not someone trying to sell a mirage.

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 8:20 PM

drone@4.45pm:
I've debated whether to enter this discussion or not,because I believe that "intimacy" is not only being closely involved physically,but also emotionally----even dare I say,spiritually??
Can you bear to share your innermost thoughts with a significant other without fear of rejection?
To me,that is true intimacy...when hearts , minds (and even bodies) are in complete "connection" and "trust".
It is a rare gift.........

I've experienced it once......whether it occurs again.......???

Posted by: kurli at August 15, 2008 8:07 PM

joyfuldelite wrote:
Browsing through the posts, I came across this from yaahmulegiddyup:
"last but not least get happy and keep in mind that your life is not about either making a woman happy or receiving validation from them"
AWESOME. No better advice could be given to anyone, of either sex (exchange the word woman for man as fits).

Comment: I think that's good to some extent (because sometimes, we can be overly pre-occupied with validation), but let's face it, everyone needs validation from others to some extent. If no one ever gave you encouragement, no one seemed to like you, you had no family, and so on, what would your life be like? We are social creatures, and it is important to us to make good connections with others. If none of us needs validation, then presumably we'd be happy living on a secluded island by ourselves, with no other contact with any other person.

The other things you write in your post about guys needing to wear trendy gear, etc. to be attractive, strike me as going in quite the opposite direction to the quote above from the mule that you so strenuously agree with. In my case, I should say that I have no real interest in fashion and wearing trendy clothes to attract women... sure, I could cultivate such an interest, but it would only be to attract women, which I gather is precisely what the mule's quote above is suggesting that I do not do.

Generallly speaking, I try to look neat and presentable, but that's about it. Looking at the world through the prism of what is fashionable to wear strikes me as dangerous. If you see people through the lens of what they are wearing, well, that really does give you a distorted picture of what they are about. The most you can infer about someone from the fact that they are not keeping up with the latest fashions is that they are not playing the game of outward appearances...

You wrote:
"And yes, that is my aesthetics (and those I hear women swoon about - there is a reason why George Clooney is soooo desired, and we can see a heck of a lot of the Clooney attributes in the guys we are attracted to...there is nothing so exhilarating as a man looking at you with those gorgeous eyes and giving you that cheeky smile...and watching you melt, even if he might look like an ordinary joe to those around you...to the receiver, such exchanges can make a guy look WOW...) Now where was I? Oh yes, agreeing with y, and he has nicely uncovered WHY we want guys to look good, and look like they make an effort, on their rsvp profiles..."
Actually, the mule said nothing to uncover WHY women might want guys to look good. He merely said that it is a fact that he gets more hits when he shows his semi-naked shots. That is not an explanation at all, it's just an observation.

The other stuff about being a mix of George Clooney and Peter Pan... look, every guy cannot be like that... imagine if they were. Then there would be no contrast at all, and we'd all be the same... Imagine if every guy was some earthy dude with a cheeky grin... I assure you, it would be Hell on Earth.

I do appreciate your opinions about various things, and I will take some note of them, especially the stuff to do with photos. But I'm not going to uncritically take on board the views of you, or anyone, about what I should be like as a person.

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 7:54 PM

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 15, 2008 5:53 PM:
It's a joke; you shouldn't take it too seriously.

I think it's important for people to have a sense of curiosity and wonder, openness to new ideas, etc. etc. But if the only way that that obvious truth can make sense to people, involves making up a fictional inner child, strikes me as a bit sad.

Because curiosity, originality, a sense of wonder at the new really ought to be characteristics that are part of who you are, not a part of you that is sequestered off from the rest of you, and labelled your "inner child".

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 7:31 PM

Well, Joyful...I believe that we sometimes confuse intimacy with attachment/bonding.
I think that intimacy is a comfortable closeness and caring that grows with time spent with others. It is learning each others...well everything, I guess and being comfortable with all that you learn about them. It's a bit like unconditional love. It is getting to the grass roots and still wanting to be there no matter what...on the other hand, maybe I'm talking about love.

Posted by: istj54 at August 15, 2008 7:24 PM

INTIMACY...it's definitely not about six packs and hair cut and suits - well not for me anyway. When I see the photo of a man in gym cloths or without a top I get turned off immediately ...

Anyway, I just read a scientific paper recently written on intimacy between couples, I will share the ideas with you...apparently, luck of intimacy is behind most relationship/marriage failure...people base their relationship on wrong fundation... True intimacy develops over time though and is dynamic (always changing) bidirectional: BOTH partnes need to engage equally.

There are several dymensions of intimacy which need to be present in a successful relationship: emotional, sexual, social, intellectual, recreational and spiritual. Our personality have to match first of all, than our values, and both partners need to be self aware and willing to accept constructive criticisam, willing to change and willing to accpet differences as gifts rather than obstacles for the intimacy to develop and grow. Total trust is the prerequisite: partners should feel safe to disclose all their feelings, needs and fears openly without being ridiculed or judged or evaluated...it has to go both ways though...there should be that feeling of safety that one does not have to be a certan way to be loved and accepted...hard to achieve this level of intimacy? I believe it is possible when both partners aim for the same thing and both partners are trustworthy.

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 15, 2008 7:19 PM

(Waternymph, I don't think the picture thing is bullying - its suggesting what the wider rsvp audience might perceive of non-photos.)

What I percieve as "bullying" is when people tell others that their profile/photo is not good enough and that they should get a tan, a haircut, a new image(lift weights) and try again!

(Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I thought that Drone asked for constructive advice?
Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 11:18 AM )
You are right Willow, Drone did ask for CONSTRUCTIVE advice .. but that was only after he had already recieved a few negative comments stating that he needed to improve his profile ... not before!
The only genuinely helpful and unintrusive suggestion passed to Drone here .. has been that from joyfuldelite .. " I would highly recommend the rsvp singles events!"

Woodnwine .. Wether other people wonder why we choose our nic is totally irelevant. Has your name been successful for you? Or have you considered changing it ?

amourmoi08 at August 15, 2008 12:22 PM ..
I'm not sure what you are "lovingly disagree"ing with ..especially when you said that you liked Drones articulate profile as it is and it made you smile. So in essence you seem to agree that he is OK with out all the criticism he's recieved .. no matter how ill informed or well meant!

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 15, 2008 7:09 PM

drone at 4:45 "Nah, I stoppped listening to my inner child a long time ago. He kept asking for bicycles, ice creams, and wanted to go to the toilet at inappropriate times"...this makes me feel like reaching out and tickling you....no one ever really stops listening to that little kiddy inside do they???? I guess that is the most intimate space of all, getting to love and trust your inner child...reminds me of that Sinead O'Connor song "there is a little child inside me....you're not free if you don't know me"...now....intimacy...hmmm...

Can someone help me out here, please, can someone share with me what they think opening yourself up to being intimate is about? I would like to know some common culture ideas on acceptable boundaries here...just trying to do a bit of litmus paper testing, for my own clarification (and hopefully growth). Thanks folks!

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 15, 2008 5:53 PM

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 15, 2008 11:15 AM:
"Give it a go drone, to have a good time and let your inner child out to play, not just for the sociological analysis :)"

Nah, I stoppped listening to my inner child a long time ago. He kept asking for bicycles, ice creams, and wanted to go to the toilet at inappropriate times.

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 4:45 PM

My friend bought the guy she started seeing a chocolate bar but because of the relationship they were establishing, the chocolate represented just that little bit too much in generosity. It was too late, she descended into a neediness spiral, ate the chocolate and called me. That's intimacy.

Posted by: capriciousimp at August 15, 2008 12:53 PM

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 15, 2008 10:55 AM

I have to loving disagree with you on this one my friend.

I checked out his profile and thought is was so funny that I sent him and email.

He returned the honour and I think that he is one of the new guys on the block that are in touch with themselves (keep it clean bloggers).

I also think that he is articulate and was coming from all good intentions to assist a fellow blogger who is also male and posted an item that everyone went to town on ; me included.

Sometimes my sweet friends there is no need to attack in such a public forum the manners and desires of other bloggers who are here just as you and I find ourselves, single, sexy, sassy and all things good.

So with the remark and scared I will cop a hiding I am headed for the snow for a few days.....if anyone wants to join me you can go to my profile and call me.

Peace out: love your words and advise and now going to apply them minus the modem and keyboard. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 15, 2008 12:22 PM

waternymph - so you believe people don't consider why RSVPers choose their name? Interesting. And you think people should just go on being themselves and getting the same results, year in year out ..... but hey, they're being themselves. I don't think anyone has suggested drone, creativestuart or anyone else should pretend to be anything other than who they really are .... just that if they want success they should present their real selves in the best possible light. This goes for most things in life, not just RSVP. These people asked for advice and many sensible ideas were put forward, where is the problem with that?

Posted by: woodnwine at August 15, 2008 11:42 AM

( I'm starting to feel a little overexposed now, and it is probably time to stop dissecting my profile. :) Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 10:43 AM )

Good thinking Drone .. concentrate on your work and leave the unimportant stuff .. ie folowing all the ADVICE on the back burner ,.. Have a great weekend!

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 15, 2008 11:37 AM

And y's profile is a scream LOL. Not sure I would want to date you y, maybe mother you, but it would be fun to be your sidekick and just get the laughs - now that is a brain you got there mate!

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 15, 2008 11:26 AM

Waternymph, I don't think the picture thing is bullying - its suggesting what the wider rsvp audience might perceive of non-photos.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I thought that Drone asked for constructive advice?

Grego: I had a good chuckle :)

Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 11:18 AM

Drone, I would highly recommend the rsvp singles events. I go alone. And I use the mingling openers that the organisers provide and walk around and chat with heaps of people (and have met some very interesting guys doing this, some actual real world leaders in their fields, and I am in awe that the girls are not dragging them off at a rate of knots). I also seem to get women joining me and have made some great friendship groups through this. And you get to dance and laugh and have a good night out, much better than sitting around at home wondering what people are doing. I was told some time ago "he won't come to your door, knock and say 'I heard you were looking for your lifetime partner so I thought I would find you and just drop by'" so get out and start looking". Best advice I was ever given, and rsvp has been a godsend at improving my social life. There are some really, really great locallers involved with it, one way or another, and they keep this town a good place to be, particularly for those who don't want to be directly involved in clubbing, etc. Give it a go drone, to have a good time and let your inner child out to play, not just for the sociological analysis :)

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 15, 2008 11:15 AM

Browsing through the posts, I came across this from yaahmulegiddyup:
"last but not least get happy and keep in mind that your life is not about either making a woman happy or receiving validation from them"
AWESOME. No better advice could be given to anyone, of either sex (exchange the word woman for man as fits).
And I also agree with y's assessment of what women go for, as opposed to what they/we say we go for - muscles, within personal aesthetics, definitely, good haircut, you bet (if a guy has hair - alternatively, in my age bracket, shaving off what is left is very sexy because it is trendy), trendy clothes, oh yes, suit indicating power, mmmm not sure about that one, so many guys show themselves in a suit, it is from a wedding or a posed photo, and they are tradies - well personally, I think a guy in his work gear, that sort of mildy sweating and earthy look is far more pulling than a suit...look at how many of the firemen calendars get sold here in Queensland, with those gorgeous men looking like Adonis! And the fact that they do work that is humanitarian, are blokey with obvious soft sides....come on, we girls are basic in a lot of ways, you know...still raging hormones for a fair portion of the time...and yes, want to find the man who loves us and we can love exclusively and fully, and if he happens to look drop dead sexy and be a great human being....well, we go for the jackpot as well you know.
And yes, that is my aesthetics (and those I hear women swoon about - there is a reason why George Clooney is soooo desired, and we can see a heck of a lot of the Clooney attributes in the guys we are attracted to...there is nothing so exhilarating as a man looking at you with those gorgeous eyes and giving you that cheeky smile...and watching you melt, even if he might look like an ordinary joe to those around you...to the receiver, such exchanges can make a guy look WOW...) Now where was I? Oh yes, agreeing with y, and he has nicely uncovered WHY we want guys to look good, and look like they make an effort, on their rsvp profiles...
Eye candy is a good start, the great guy, fabulous to talk with, really interesting...all that comes once the eyes have been stimulated - and I say this showing the guys I have dated that they are hunky and wow, that's what I have thought about them, and it is how I hope they feel when with me...after they have attracted me via their profiles.

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 15, 2008 11:07 AM

Waternymph, Once again you are spot on with your remarks.
Drone there is only one thing to remember in all this " To Yourself be True " & good luck mate :)

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 15, 2008 11:05 AM

An excerpt from Mule's profile ...
(ps This advert is in recognition of the big neon sign on my forehead that everyone but I can see )
That would be an "L" ? And not L for LOVER!!
Greg while I mostly agree with your advice to guys .. I think you do Drone as much of a disservice as all the others before you .. Let him choose his name and do what he will with his profile ..
Drone .. tell em all to sod off and do things YOUR OWN WAY!! and that includes make your own choices about who you send a kiss to .. no matter how well intentioned Woodnwine may think he is!

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 15, 2008 10:55 AM

Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 9:18 AM

Willow, I bet you said a few "escalations" after getting the hey babe email.

rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at August 15, 2008 10:45 AM

Good ideas, guys...drone, you can make the changes in an hour, what have you got to lose? Although I think you must be getting sick of all the advice, I'd be heading for the hills myself. A few of the bloggers have met someone lovely on RSVP and we know it can work, just stick with it!

Posted by: waterbombe at August 15, 2008 10:44 AM

grego7 at August 15, 2008 10:24 AM:

Yep, that's all good advice. I'm going to cut and paste it all into a text document for easy perusal later. Unfortunately, I have some heavy work commitments coming up (starting Monday) in the next month or two, and I need to focus on that for a bit. I think there really isn't any rush with any of this stuff. So I will still check out the blogs from time to time, but won't be contacting anyone/searching the profiles, etc.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for all the advice. I'm starting to feel a little overexposed now, and it is probably time to stop dissecting my profile. :)

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 10:43 AM

I had to double check the Topic heading to see if it was still : " Intimacy, Is it easy to have it?"
Yep still there... so why has it become the "Drone.. let's sort him out" page?
Then from there seemingly to inspire, not only the pack mentality to rip him to shreds, but to encourage feelings of Profile Insecurity in others.
What you put on you profile, how you express yourself says who you are. If you take on board too much advice from others you lose your own identity and become a Clone rather than a Drone!
Drifter I like your response to Mules ranting :-),. my sentiments exactly!
Really mule if the advice works so well for you and if the pretty facade is all you need .. Why are you still here and not out on a date every night with one of the 15 RSVPers that kiss you daily ? You should be so spoilt for choice with not a spare moment for reflection nor blogging !
Wether we chose to have studio portraits done, slap on the makeup and present the general public with a full scale gallery or choose to hide our photo with a view to only showing it to whom we choose & not the whole world and his dog, is again personal choice and not open to bullying or harrassment from bloggers!
Now can we please get back to thoughts of what intimacy once was for us and can be again? Full Moon almost here .. why not share it with someone nice .. especially if you are fortunate like Mule with so many to chose from!

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 15, 2008 10:36 AM

Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 14, 2008 10:35 PM:

Interesting idea about going to one of those events. I've never been to one, actually. Anyone had experiences with them?

I'm afraid I don't really have many single friends to go with, so I'd probably just roll up by myself. But that's OK.

If nothing else, it'd be kind of sociologically intriguing to see what happens when you put a whole heap of single people (who know that everyone else is single) in a room together.

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 10:33 AM

HI willow29 i'm with you I never start my emails with "hi Babe" etc. They are always "Hello and then the name or handle of the person I am emailing. I must be in the category "Or is that my white, middle class, anglo saxon background?".

My previous partner and myself addressed each other as babe but we new each other very well. I would think that until such time as person are more than email/text/msn buddies "babe" would certainly not be that way i would say hello to someone.

Posted by: patc111960 at August 15, 2008 10:31 AM

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 15, 2008 8:36 AM:

You are welcome. I find it much easier to analyse other people's photos than my own, but then I guess most of us a bit like that.

Posted by: drone at August 15, 2008 10:29 AM

drone - why don't you send jaspercat a kiss? You are both very much into creating music and she already expressed some interest. Yes, you live a long way apart but a friendship might be good for both of you .... I'm friends with many people who live interstate (that I met through RSVP).

Posted by: woodnwine at August 15, 2008 10:26 AM

drone, well you have received some excellent advice here and it is pretty consistant what you should do.

Please dont walk away from RSVP. There are only 3 things you need to do and you can complete them this week end. My summary from all the suggestions is:

1. change your profile name

2. get some new photos ( and keep taking shots and updating as they get better)

3 rewrite your profile. That has been made easy by the kindly and excellent writing of ISTJ54. She has done it for you. See her post Aug 14 6.19pm. What could be easier!

And lastly, read a few profiles of your target market and try and put your self in their shoes and think what are they looking for that someone like you could offer.
rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at August 15, 2008 10:24 AM

Willow,
Or "Hello Lovely". Just oozes sincerity doesn't it? Not!
I was sent a kiss by someone much younger. Out of curiosity I sent him a friendly email (yay!) asking him if I wasn't a bit too old for him? (Hell it was my birthday stamp; why not have some fun!)
He emailed me back twice in the same day, telling me how "he prefers older women" and how "lovely" I was.
I have never heard from him again!

I found it quite hilarous, I probably scared the wits out of him!
But although it would be really nice to be able to take this internet dating thing seriously, (after all, I would really like to have a partner to care about and be cared about) how can you when so many people are just here to "play" with people's emotions?

Posted by: amberlight58 at August 15, 2008 10:16 AM

Re the photos, I think you need to be a bit careful about judging people's reasons. Sure, the married players don't want their photos up. But early on I found doctors, dentists, lawyers and uni professors were often the people behind the missing photo. They don't want to be seen on RSVP for professional reasons. It still has a bit of a stigma about it in general society, which I think is ridiculous but there you are. Another reason is that they get on here, do a search, and see hat some of the women are their patients/clients. They don't want to date them...they can't, I think there are professional restrictions on that. But they don't want to be chased by these women either, (one had been stalked by a patient and he saw her on RSVP) so the best option is no photo. I don't think everybody who is a doctor etc does this, but some of them do. Maybe keep it in mind when you look at profiles?

Re costs, I agree about shouting for coffees because that's trivial, but dinners are different. Most women I know expect to pay for their costs...paying turn about for meals. I couldn't bear it though if a guy divided the bill by 0.765 because he'd eaten less than me. First of all he should multiply the bill by that ;-)) (that's just for us nerds on here) but really, I'd be thinking Next!

Posted by: waterbombe at August 15, 2008 10:16 AM

willow @ 9.15 am
yes, I agree with you. That over familiarity from someone you don't know is off putting to me too - a little bit into the contact if things are flowing well would be fine, but first off, a definite no from me...

Posted by: malsie at August 15, 2008 10:07 AM

Good point Piscesgirl, believe it or not I hadn't actually thought of that! How naive am I?
Then there are those profiles with no photos who say "Sorry, haven't got any stamps" and one which was "Haven't got any stamps, best you email me because I only go on here when I am bored!" (Not a verbatim quote just a summary: but why even bother at all?)

There is one profile in SA which says RSVP is a rip off and that we should all use Oasis Active, in his HEADLINE!
And RSVP worry about moderating the blogs?!
I've never seen a blogger try to actually lose RSVP business, even though we may become very disillusioned at times!

Posted by: amberlight58 at August 15, 2008 10:05 AM

No kidding, I just posted that last comment and I get an email "hey babe....."

I'd laugh if he reads the blogs.

Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 9:18 AM

Terms of endearment - no, Im not in the wrong blog. I was considering profiles that start off with "hey babe...". Call me uptight but that really puts me off. I mean does the profiler really call every woman, regardless of maturity, body shape and background, "babe"? Similarly with first emails. "Hi Darling, or Hi Babe" really get me rolling my eyes. Its just a bit presumtuous really. Or is that my white, middle class, anglo saxon background? What do others think?

btw, once a rapport is established, Im fine with TOE, just not with strangers.

Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 9:15 AM

Welcome Soliloquist. Im sure you have a good reason for your photo not being up - but it really does reduce your chances of meeting your ideal partner.

I think the post below yours might be thought provoking in regards to people's opinion of pictures. Good luck with your search.

Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 9:09 AM

yaahmulegiddyup, You really haven´t changed that grip of yours have you ?

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 15, 2008 8:39 AM

Thanks Drone.... the photo info is useful, much appreciated ;)

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 15, 2008 8:36 AM

Hi Kaz, We could now have different levels of accidentness causing problems with injuryness. However, if we keep possimistic we'll all be okay. It was a lol moment and the young fellow who used the word is highly educated and awfully nice delivery a talk and was responding to questions. We all laughed together and now it is the word of the day/week/forever in the office. We all agreed it was a very possimistic talk and a lot of good will come out of it. Incredibly the roll out will remain far longer than most process policies simply because of the use of a word.

Posted by: iaminperth at August 15, 2008 8:26 AM

Hello All,

My recent experiences of dating life have been a disastrous string of threes.
The first three were married - what is it about married men and dating??

The second three were never married, dysfunctionally single. While they may not realise why they are still single, I certainly did.
So here am I on the internet, hoping for a third three that is three times as lucky.

Sense of Humor - Check
Loves animals - Check
Has a reasonable profile - Please don't check
6 pack on photo - not likely
Bikini shot - Global warming will ensure Hell never freezes over

Not into pubs or clubs - In desperation, I may have to try my charms at the old folks home. Most men want someone younger than they are - might have chance after all.

Posted by: soliloquist at August 15, 2008 1:22 AM

My very limited experience with internet dating has taught me this - men with no photos might be married, engaged or in relationships, they want to keep their RSVP activities secret...so I agree, this reflects on: luck of commitment, luck of sense of responsibility, luck of character, and maybe luck of emotional maturity...attractive traits?

Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 14, 2008 11:41 PM

Outbackdrifter, your profile is fine l think, a good collection of pics and well written, just my humble opinion.

TD, the Cat, well that sounds perfectly suitable, as does the mint sauce, home made of course. And my yummy gravy, made from scratch.....

Perth, accidentness, that is a hoot!.....................K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 14, 2008 11:17 PM

I think it only fair to have a "Save a drone with a kiss campaign" See if he can get to the Top 100

Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 14, 2008 11:13 PM

Drone my good but deluded man

Why are you competing for women ?

Do you not consider yourself a prize that women should compete amongst one another for your affections ?

Ahh your vain and egotistical Mule I hear cry all the detractors

but I say unto them

In our advanced society based on egalitarianism why is it a woman may consider herself a catch or prize with no retribution but If a man does, both genders will try to ridicule him with shaming language

I KNOW I am a good catch/prize why should I be ashamed of this ?

I will for you good man Drone give you the key to knowledge

I suggest that you Sir, Google "the book of pook" then down load it ( it is free) and read it thoroughly - It has within its 300 pages the answers to your malady

I also suggest ALL men who see this information do the same if not only for a little bit of enlightenment for within those pages THERE WILL be something that you will read and agree with.

Again good man Drone I wish you success.

Posted by: yaahmulegiddyup at August 14, 2008 11:12 PM

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 14, 2008 8:29 AM
"I am fairly ordinary as far as looks go, I accept that. But I often feel invisible. People don't acknowledge me or remember me.... I don't think I'm that bland. It happens here and off line."

I just had a peek at your profile. I have to say it strikes more of a chord with me that a lot of the profiles on RSVP - I think it's pretty good, actually. It feels honest; it is not overwritten, it is not trying too hard, and it is clear from reading it that you have an inquisitive mind and a general sense of curiosity about things.

I don't think there is anything substandard about your appearance, either, and I'm not talking crap. I think the first two photos on there - the ones set against a dark background - probably don't show you in your best light; I think it has something to do with the high level of contrast in those shots.... some of the other shots are really good, though. You look at peace, and almost serene, in some of them.

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 11:03 PM

Hi maestrac...thanks for your reply,..hey maybe us quieter gals should start our own blog......at this late hour I think Drone has had enough attention and constructive criticism.....next!

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 14, 2008 10:54 PM

Jen, thats just me..................... Too Choosey." ;)

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 14, 2008 10:46 PM

K��� I'm Not very familiar with Neil Young, I am however a little more in tune with Cat Stevens, but I will learn those two songs for you. I love roast lamb with a glass of wine maybe a little mint jelly.

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 14, 2008 10:44 PM

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 14, 2008 8:29 AM
I am fairly ordinary as far as looks go, I accept that. But I often feel invisible. People don't acknowledge me or remember me.... I don't think I'm that bland. It happens here and off line.

Hi aquamanda, I just thought I'd reply to your post so that you don't feel left out, it happens to me too.

I am more of a listener than a chatterbox but sometimes it would be nice to get a word in edgeways. My friends and colleagues tend to use me like an agony aunt. I have found that people with the gift of the gab (even if spouting rubbish) tend to have more people milling around them and are usually more popular. But hey, where would they be if they didn't have us to listen to them.

I took a quick peek at your profile, you are definitely not bland.

Posted by: maestrac at August 14, 2008 10:41 PM

One of the younger guys I work with today was talking about 'accidentness'. I think that's a great new word. You could discuss the level of accidentness in your life !

Posted by: iaminperth at August 14, 2008 10:39 PM

the mule guy wrote:
"Also what exactly is a drone - A male bee, especially a honeybee, that is characteristically stingless, performs no work, and produces no honey. Not very inspiring to any woman really - think about it."
Drone ants and bees are the ones that fly around, competing to fertilise the queen. Being a guy on RSVP seems a bit like being one of the swarm of drones. Dunno, it amused me at the time, and I wondered if anyone would get the joke.

When I made the profile (some time ago) I wasn't taking this thing that seriously, and I pretty much just wrote whatever entertained me at the time.

Anyway, time to try something different.

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 10:38 PM

High 5's, blueyedblond......thanks. Oh and I must send a thanks to a very sweet blogger, amourmoi08..peace out!

ciao
invisible moi

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 14, 2008 10:36 PM

Drone..you're gorgeous! I like your sense of humour too....and that photo in the chair is actually very sexy( if you don't mention the slippers!) The main photo is too close to the camera .

There are hundreds of young single women looking for men like you. My daughter(the beautiful Ms Lynsey)and all her friends from late 20's upwards are all bemoaning the fact they can't meet men All these women are lovely to look at, bright and intelligent with good jobs (accountants doctors teachers physios etc) but find it impossible to meet men ie potential husbands! in everyday life.
Lynsey has organised a group ,(which is getting bigger by the minute) of women from late 20's to 50 to go to the RSVP all ages singles party this Saturday at Brighton

You should grab some friends and go! You too creativestuart . Marcus... stay.....your lizards need you.

Only a handful of women still feel they should be paid for on a first date. It has nothing to do with class or manners in thsi day and age. Good manners would be to pay half the bill without question imo!

Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 14, 2008 10:35 PM

yaahmulegiddyup, change your grip mate

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 14, 2008 10:28 PM

Outbackdrifter ~ I think your profile is good too. The only question I would have is why are there so many requirements in the "You should be" bit. i.e. Post Grad, Degree, etc, ethnicity, The whole section there is neally full. I think that can possibily stop a lot of contact as a person can think "Too Choosey." Just a thought.

Not getting into Drone's profile. Think everyone has had their say there. Good luck on your travels though guys.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at August 14, 2008 10:25 PM

of course "exclations" is a new word, meaning something very similar to exclamations....I think it's American....

Time for bed I think. Goodnight all.

Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 10:24 PM

On another issue drone I wouldn't change too much on the profile, get rid of the comment about wanting someone to drag the music gear around. Other than that your interests are cool, there are plenty of women in their 30's looking for a man who wants to have kids so that is a bonus

Posted by: themiddleway at August 14, 2008 10:22 PM

Drone: "There aren't that many of what I am in Melbourne, and I suppose that if I said what I was, I could be easily tracked down."
I guess that shows interest and initiative!

(and before I get exclations of horror, the regulars know Im joking, because I have been there recently).

Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 10:17 PM

yaahmulegiddyup at August 14, 2008 9:43 PM
Good bit of woman and drone debunking.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 14, 2008 10:05 PM

Willow, Thank you for the grammar lesson :p

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 14, 2008 10:04 PM

Wow, Yaahmulegiddyup, you're right - no holding back there. It is true about pictures though. Not many women bother if there's no picture. A lack of pictures equates with lack of commitment to the task at hand.

"more like that rsvp doesn't have the option of sending a kiss that says "I want to lick your 8 pack stomach " - I'm not even going to comment on that. Oh, I just did...

Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 10:01 PM

Yes Midleway, I tend to agree. I mean in reality what do you do. Buy a couple of cups of coffee and then say, well here's my part of the bill and give the other person some money, hopefully the right change. Or line up and say I'm paying for mine and he;'s paying for his. Or do you sit at the table and say well mine cost me $6 for the sake of argument but I only have a five and a two so you owe me a dollar. Sounds all too silly and petty to me and I would plonk the plastic down and be glad to be out of there never, and I mean really never to cross that persons path again. Really, how seriously petty can you get.

Posted by: iaminperth at August 14, 2008 10:00 PM

joyfuldelite wrote:
"I've worked with scientists (you sound like a physicist, maye in material physics...?) and seen some beaut young guys struggle...not an easy area to mingle with ladies on a daily work basis, and learn sort of by osmosis on what they/we are like... Know anyone with sisters you can hang around with?"

I'm not a physicist. There aren't that many of what I am in Melbourne, and I suppose that if I said what I was, I could be easily tracked down. Not that it's so likely that that would happen, but still...

I do know women; in fact, some of them are even my friends! So, while my confidence levels re. dating could improve, I don't find it difficult to have conversations with women.

"Anyhow, you have intellect and can take on board help, which are positive attributes. That positive and open nature needs to be marketted on rsvp, so try to keep a 'strengths and attributes' frame of mind when you compose the new one."

You know, that's a really helpful point, aned something I hadn't considered. Yes, I suppose I could make something of that. Thanks.

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 9:58 PM

Okay Drone your not going to like what I say because I do not partake of flowery diplomatic speech, I hate political correctness and basically you need a shove in the right direction.

BUT

On saying that you can either listen to what I have to say or not and before you ask who am I too say these things I will tell you that for a number of weeks I was in the top 20 most popular males in 2 age groups simultaniously ( many women have achieved this but not many men) so I would venture to say there is something about me that appeals - and I am objective enough to realise its my 8 pack stomach and broad shoulders. Secondly I was once YOU - yes I was once exactly what you portray on your profile in words and pictures.

Firstly your screen name "drone" sounds boring when I first saw it I thought oh yeah drone on and on and on about nothing and bore the shit out of people. Then I read about your studies on the composition of inanimate objects - yawnsville --- basically drone you are boring the heck out of 90 % or more of women. Granted there are many intellectual women on the same wavelength as yourself - and many of them post in the forums but thats few and far between in the wider membership database. Also what exactly is a drone - A male bee, especially a honeybee, that is characteristically stingless, performs no work, and produces no honey. Not very inspiring to any woman really - think about it.

Now to a very valid point that Troy made - he is absolutely correct women are just as if not more visual then men - they just deny it due to social constraints instilled into them. Case in point When I have all my pictures visible I get 15 odd kisses a day - when only my main picture is visible I get one a week - I had these gym shots hidden for 10 days and fell of the top 100 list REAL FAST. Now the majority of women sent me kisses( when gym shots were visible) saying they "like my sense of humour" - yeah right !How come that didn't happen when I had only my main picture visible ? - more like that rsvp doesn't have the option of sending a kiss that says "I want to lick your 8 pack stomach "

So Drone - kudos to you for looking at gym work ( forget the cardio just do weights and get big muscles - women will deny it but in fact they love them) Get a haircut - a modern one ( hypocritical from me as I am not that big into hair cuts I usually shave my head in military fashion) but for you it will work. Get some trendier clothes or get a suit - women see a suit and equate it with power and prestige (in a primitive sense of feeling)

Get some better pictures - get some colour - yeah a mild tan does help, who ever says it does not is a liar as it gives the impression of a healthier glow.

And last but not least get happy and keep in mind that your life is not about either making a woman happy or receiving validation from them. Good luck to you in your endeavors.

Posted by: yaahmulegiddyup at August 14, 2008 9:43 PM

Outbackdrifter . Im not much of a critic, and as you say "people in glass houses"..but I think there's a good variety of pics on your profile. No real smily ones though and I always wonder why people have pictures of their sunglasses :). That's probably not a very flattering picture. The words are appealing (though there's two "the"s together in one of the last paragraphs). But you didnt want a grammar lesson, did you? *grin*.

Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 9:41 PM

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 9:29 PM Reading your post I had an epiphany .... OMG......I'm a nerd .........AAHHHHH!!!!!!!...... ; P

Posted by: spanky668 at August 14, 2008 9:37 PM

amourmoi08 wrote:
"Dearest Drone, where are you my friend?

Either you have been kidnapped by the queer eye for the straight guy crew or you are filling the bath to drown in."

Hi, I'm here... :)

I'm pleased to report that the bath remains empty.

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 9:34 PM

missrule at August 14, 2008 6:52 PM:

Hey, I never said I was a nerd! (lol)... I think I may have admitted (in response to some things joyfuldelite said) that my facial features could be nerdlike...

As I understand it, nerds are supposed to have a narrow range of fringe interests, which they pursue almost to the point of obsession. They have a very legalistic mindset. They don't have a very good grip of non-verbal cues, and possess only a rudimentary understanding of social conventions.

Anyway, I believe that's the stereotype of a nerd. So, understandably, it may not be desirable for people to be getting that impression of you from your profile.

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 9:29 PM

Dearest Drone, where are you my friend?

Either you have been kidnapped by the queer eye for the straight guy crew or you are filling the bath to drown in.

In all honesty you are who you are and that is near perfect.

No point in being all to others if you are not at one with yourself.

If you don't grab someones attention ask yourself if you would be grabbed by them as they walked by?

No point being a sock that is always looking for the other pair when it is simply the wrong kind.

Be who you are, you are most deserving.

Peace out and please post something so I don't call the fashion police on all of those kind folk who have given much well intended advice.

Peace honey xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 14, 2008 9:27 PM

Thanks for taking the suggestions in the positive light in which they were given. I really do wish you the best of luck.
I've worked with scientists (you sound like a physicist, maye in material physics...?) and seen some beaut young guys struggle...not an easy area to mingle with ladies on a daily work basis, and learn sort of by osmosis on what they/we are like... Know anyone with sisters you can hang around with?
Anyhow, you have intellect and can take on board help, which are positive attributes. That positive and open nature needs to be marketted on rsvp, so try to keep a 'strengths and attributes' frame of mind when you compose the new one...and maybe ask again for comments from the blogs. I have had heaps of help and support from other bloggers, it can be a very healthy and supportive little sandpit on here :)
Take care and keep trying!!!

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 14, 2008 9:21 PM

aquamanda56 at August 14, 2008 3:46 PM. Doesn't do much for ones ego does it? It isn't us amanda it is them... and as you say their loss. One guy I kissed a few weeks ago actually sent me an email asking for my password. Sent it and he replied "Thanks but I will keep looking." I emailed back say I didn't think I looked that bad. His reply was "You have a certain aura." to which I said "Is that like the aura you get before you have an epileptic fit?" Funny didn't hear from him again. Thought I would repeat that annecdote just in case some didn't see it before.

Posted by: blueyedblond at August 14, 2008 9:01 PM

Drone,

I don't know what your financial status is but I don't think paying for a meal on a date is a way of compensating a woman for spending time with you. If you get to a date stage then a woman would potentially think it was a sign of class that you paid for the meal. If things are tight, then do coffee and cake , what's $20 to a wealthy rock dude. Most women see it as manners, doesn't take much effort to be nice. I am a 40 year old male, just trying to help you out dude.

Posted by: themiddleway at August 14, 2008 8:54 PM

Seeing you are pulling drones page to bits , you might as well have a look at mine, while you are looking at mine, you might leave him alone...................why do I keep thinking of glass houses ?

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 14, 2008 8:34 PM

Actually I'm with drone on the matter of men paying for women on dates. Why should they? Going dutch has been socially acceptable for years. I would no more expect a man to pay for my meal than I would expect him to give me his seat on the bus (unless I was pregnant or elderly, but that is a matter of good manners).

(blushing) When I said my friends were married within six months, I meant three (always was innumerate). That's why we didn't think it would last - combined with the fact that his wife never really settled in London. Neither here nor there really ... I think it's a good idea of yours to go offline for a while, drone, and maybe come back with a revamped profile. If that girl doesn't find you in the meantime, of course!

Posted by: missrule at August 14, 2008 7:52 PM

Forget the High Schools, they need to go around RSVP and help some of the guys out. Maybe it can be an added service on the site?

BTW below comments are from a fellow RSVP'er

Posted by: starryeyez at August 14, 2008 7:44 PM

Life is what happens while you are busy getting on with it ! And love is what happens when we leave or hearts and minds open to it while we are busy getting on with life! .. yeah I know cliches .. LOL

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 14, 2008 7:36 PM

I agree, Waternymph. Maybe they can go around to High Schools :)

Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 7:23 PM

Posted by: starryeyez at August 14, 2008 5:38 PM

Good on ya Starryeyezz !

How can a guy get on a website and admit something like that???

Droned you should be ashamed of yourself mate. Really, trully, your making your date pay for her meal??? Plus you have the hide to admit it on the WWW ???

No wonder they all be rejecting you!!!

Posted by: starryeyez at August 14, 2008 7:16 PM

Posted by: starryeyez at August 14, 2008 5:38 PM

Actually, I don't regret writing that at all. I don't think the practice of buying food/drinks etc. for someone you've just met on a date makes any sense at all; sometimes I buy meals for people who ask me for money on the street, but that is different.

If someone automatically assumes that, because you don't agree with effectively paying someone to go on a date with you, that you are a tightwad, well, that's unfortunate, but so be it.

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 6:54 PM

Dear Drone,

You sound so much like a dear friend of mine back in the UK, it's uncanny. You also resemble him physically. He is also a self-confessed nerd/geek/pointy-head. He also spent several years on dating sites and got virtually no interest from women.

Then he wrote a biography of a very well-known author which, if not exactly a bestseller, was highly acclaimed. He was interviewed for radio and TV, written about in newspapers and magazines and invited on a lecture tour of the US. There he met an American fellow-anorak and within six months they were married. Not auspicious, you might think, and indeed all his friends predicted at the time that the relationship wouldn't last. However, eight years on they are now expecting their first child.

So perhaps you should write those books you mention, and who knows! Okay, seriously, the moral is that the right person for you IS out there. Use the dating sites as a useful tool but don't confine yourself to the internet, get out there and look - maybe she will find you, as happened to my friend.

In the meantime ... your profile does convey an image of someone who is jaded and rather negative and the main pic could certainly do with some revision. Try smiling "properly", like you just heard a really funny joke, and look straight at the camera. As others have said, get a mate to take the pics in an attractive setting, and just keep on taking them until you have a good selection to upload. Keep on truckin'! Hey, I'm 51 and I'm STILL looking!

Good luck - Claire, NSW mid-north coast, divorced +3.

Posted by: missrule at August 14, 2008 6:52 PM

Grego I think you need to start nightschool classes for men. Between you and Tassiedude you just make it difficult for the guys so better help them out since you both seem to know so well how to treat a lady!

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 14, 2008 6:46 PM

Drone...for my tuppence worth, I would change your main stuff to just...
"My main passion in life involves music. I've played in a few bands over the years, and have been writing music for a long time. At the moment, I'm mixing an album that I wrote and recorded mostly myself (but with a little help from my friends). I've been working on that for a couple of years, and expect it will be finished this year some time. If you were to see me walking down the street, it is highly likely that I would be softly singing something, or humming a tune, possibly without even realising that that's what I was doing.
I also have ideas for a few children's books. I will probably get around to writing those up eventually, but that's a longer-term interest.
I've just started on a three-year research job to think and write about the relationship between ordinary material objects (like the chair you are sitting on) and the matter that they are made of. It's an excellent line of work, because I get to read a lot of intriguing stuff, talk to a lot of interesting people, and get paid to develop new ideas.
I�m looking for someone intelligent; if not a deep thinker, then at least someone who thinks a bit! Someone with a curious mind and a touch of gentleness and humility. And most importantly, someone to lug my music gear around. Yeah, that's the most important thing, really.......if that�s you please send a kiss, or reply to mine...I�d love to meet you:))

mostly your words but I would reply more positively if this is all you had written. Keep it simple...the beginning of yours is too complex...and good luck...I like your pictures.

Posted by: istj54 at August 14, 2008 6:19 PM

hi drone, i have to agree with joyfuldelite and others who have suggested a bit of a revamp of your profile. i took a look at your profile & im sorry to say it doesnt really "grab" me.
it would be great if you could include pics that show you smiling.
if nothing else, you could try revamping your profile as an experiment to see if it makes any difference.
from personal experience ive found over time that adding a new pic generates a whole heap of new interest.

Posted by: kisskat at August 14, 2008 5:59 PM

Part of the problem is when you're intimate with someone else, you see yourself intimately; you're revealed to yourself. You may not like what you see at all... but the good news is, it's where you get to work on it

Posted by: capriciousimp at August 14, 2008 5:48 PM

One other thing that springs to mind, which comes up from discussion on this thread...

Men paying for drinks/meals, etc. on dates when they hardly know the woman in question.

It saddens me a bit when women equate this with romance, and men actually defend this practice. I will never, ever, pay for anything for a woman I hardly know, in normal dating circumstances. I bet a lot of people will disagree with me here, but, after all, discussion and disagreements are what this sort of forum should be for. :)

The practice of men paying for women made very good sense a long time ago when women were often not of independent means. It made sense then, but it makes no sense now.

If I go out on a date with a woman and she expects me to pay for her expenses, the message that sends to me is that I should be paying for the very privilege of spending time with her. In other words, she needs to be recompensed for having to spend time with me. As far as I'm concerned, that is not the right sort of basis to start anything from.

If anyone expects me to pay for their drinks, etc., *on a date* when they are quite capable of doing so themselves, the main conclusion I will draw is that they are unthinking slaves of tradition - expecting things for no other reason than that "this is how it has been in the past".

Of course, giving people gifts for things they have achieved, treating a friend to a meal if they have had a hard week, etc. are entirely different.

Posted by: drone at August 8, 2008 9:27 PM

DRONE - this was your post written last week or so. Maybe just maybe , some women have read this and thought...."yikes delete him off the list"

Mate, I think you may have shot yourself in the foot.

I can tell you that I read the blogs and when I read your comments out to some of my work colleagues (who coincidentally happen to be RSVP members) they where like "what's that tightwads username"

I'm sorry but there are 1000's of RSVP members r(and their friends) reading these blogs. Big Brother/Sister is watching...lol...ALL of us...careful what you write

Posted by: starryeyez at August 14, 2008 5:38 PM

OK, I've decided I'll go back to being comparatively inactive on here for a couple of months, and do other things for a bit. Then I'll come back and redo my profile from the ground up, and see if I can't come up with something better.

waterbombe: Thanks for mentioning me to your friend... it can't hurt, after all.

Thanks to everyone who suggested I should change the photos, and grego... your suggestion about 50-60 year-old women was one out of left-field!

Anyway, I'm not despondent about the very low response rates, just a bit puzzled, and it's been great to get some feedback that might help me change up a few things down the track.

It was lovely to get some words of encouragement, also, and of course, I wish you guys well in your search.

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 5:32 PM

joyfuldelite:

Thanks, that's great, and very honest of you. If the little arms on your watch aren't going around, there's no point pretending that it is still working. So, yes, from the evidence re. contacts, etc. I'm forced to conclude that there are things in my profile that are offputting.

The photos - good ideas re. the setting. The ones taken at home were taken by an artist friend who likes doing "character studies" - taking unstaged shots of people doing whatever they'd be doing at home. So I, ah, deliberately just wore whatever rags I might wear if I were kicking around at home on the weekend. I guess you are right; they are not up to scratch for this purpose. As for looking like a nerd, quite possibly I do. As it happens, I'm getting some new goggles soon. I wonder if changing those, wearing something nicer, and changing the setting of the photos will make the difference there. Maybe; maybe not.

Interesting that you found the tone of the written stuff resigned, dull and depressed-sounding.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to compose that message. It has given me something to think about.

Posted by: drone at August 14, 2008 5:20 PM

Drone, a few comments on your profile, but first maybe you need to spend a little time trying to get to grips with the basics about women and attraction (when I returned to dating, I read heaps of books on men's psyche and was really amazed at how little I understand those dear creatures, and understand just enough now to get by). Women have many reasons for looking for a partner but in deciding, we do have a sort of shallow 'pack' mentality..."would my friends think I have done good? Could I show him off?" I know, I know cringeville but it seems pretty accurate (and this is where I get flamed by other women!)... we DO go on looks, but not maybe as traditional as you might think, the "ruggedly handsome" and "beautiful ugly" gets swamped with women chasing them, because they have a certain something - visual appeal, and it fits something of the times, yes, some kind of trends...now..forgive me but.....nerds do not fit into the category of visually appealing...the Clark Kent/Dilbert variety is likely to get many women running for the hills...and I am sorry, mate, but that is how your profile presents itself...so here goes:
The name "Drone", just one of the nobodys, the clones, a worker bee, droning on (boring)...it does not have sex appeal.
The photos...are they a joke? If I went on rsvp in my fluffy slippers with my old dressing gown pulled around me, with my hair in its 'pulled through a hedge backwards' style, would I expect any guy to have any interest - no way! Many guys have told me that it is the 'matronly look' that they run a mile from...for women I suspect it is the 'boring nerd' look - don't give a damn about how he looks, couldn't care less if he looks like he has made no effort at all...maybe even looks like something slightly feral from an office, filing cabinet sort of look - no way, mate, not a recipe for success
The setting - yes, we look! We gain a lot of impressions from a setting, and your local, private at home office has a lot to be desired, is not appealing, looks like the loner who loves his technology more than his 'style' - and being stylish matters....choose one that isn't Dilbert and you are likely to have more success, such as in the outdoors, some greenery, at a dining table, lounging back in a park...getting the picture here?
The wrtten script....."I don't feel very interesting, I am convinced I am boring so expect you to feel the same way", this is the tone - it is more Eeyore than anything and I am sorry, but we tend to avoid hanging out with depressed guys, preferring the curious and creative silliness of Pooh, or the bouncey craziness of Tigger, or the shy and vulnerable deep-thinkingness of Piglet....these bring out the inner child in us and make us want to play...Eeyore generally makes is want to run.
So I guess many will not approve of my telling you how it is, from my pespective, but mate, you need a woman's touch, a kind of female life-coach, and that is what I am offering here.....
And hoping it helps - your life is in your hands and is totally you own responsibility, if you want your love life to change via rsvp, you do have to make the profile reflect an attractive man, which you may be, but your current profile doesn't show that.

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 14, 2008 4:00 PM

drone, I really liked your profile (as I said before) and think you look fine - but, yes, I suspect your photo doesn't do you justice and you could most likely improve on it. I'd suggest getting a friend to do a bit of a photo shoot - take 50 to 100 shots or so (on a digital camera it's so easy these days...) and out of that lot there will be bound to be 4 or so that you'd be happy with, I am sure.
Add an extra "factual" bit to your profile if you agree it may be a good idea, but on the whole I wouldn't change much - the right woman will "get" you, and even though it may be a frustrating process, that's ultimately the one you want, rather than the "masses"...

Posted by: malsie at August 14, 2008 3:47 PM

Now both contacts that wanted emails have made their profiles inactive....... so I rest my case.
Well....herrumph...their loss :P

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 14, 2008 3:46 PM

Recent research from University of Qld:
"There's a huge amount of research now showing people have a preference for attractive people from birth to death," Dr von Hippel said.

Studies have shown that attractive people earn more, get more promotions and have either richer or more attractive partners, but they are not happier.

"Our happiness levels seem to be pre-set in life," he said.

"Good relationships can improve happiness but attractive people aren't any better at them than others."

Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 2:42 PM

Drone, as much as many women deny, it is mostly looks that interest the opposite sex. I'm not condoning it but that's the way it is. Sharpen up your pics as grego says mate, (new set of glasses maybe)? Write the profile, which is ok but we're talking about achieving a result, to be more proactive and confident. I'm not talking about bulls**ting, just selling yourself a bit more. That seems to be what works. When I first went on rsvp I had a photo I took with my mobile I whilst driving. I looked a bit weird, as you do. No luck, rejections......Changed the photo, left the profile, and it went ballistic with 10-15 kisses a day. Sort of proves the point. So try it maybe it'll work for you. Good luck.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at August 14, 2008 1:42 PM

Drone, hang in there, things will come together when they are meant to. I have had some very similar experiences and it happens for a reason, for me it was to learn to be happy on my own and live my life for me. Maybe doing other activities is the trick for you but only you can know the answer to that. Dont for a minute think your experience reflects badly on you or that you are at fault for the indifferent response you have got. Stay positive and very coo; things will happen, maybe not when you want them but they will happen. Good luck

Posted by: mutley4 at August 14, 2008 1:32 PM

Grego, I know you're taken, but after a post like that you would be swamped if you weren't. Taken2it is a lucky woman.

Drone, re the stats...I know something about this professionally ....there is no man-drought or woman-drought. The numbers of single people in each age group is the same, except in the 20-25 year old group, when there are TWICE as many single MEN. (And in the over-70 group, there are more single women).

I know you are an honest guy but think about it this way...once you get a girl to a dinner date, she is going to meet the "real you" and make her decision ...so your photos and profile are what tip the balance to secure that date. I'm not suggesting you should lie...don't do that. But put up your best photos (and they will be stunners, you're quite a looker if I may say so) and write more in depth stuff about yourself so she knows who she will be meeting, as Grego suggests. Women like words, as long as they make sense and the guy is not self-promoting, and you definitely don't do that, so you'll be even more appealing.

I take it from your research interests that you are academically inclined? That will deter some women - they will think that they won't be able to talk to you - but it will attract others. The single friend I mentioned to you said she finds it hard to meet really intelligent guys - the guys she does meet get competitive with her - so you would be a real relief in comparison. And just another thought- years ago Melb Uni Student Union (or Alumni?) ran a singles club, I wonder if it still exists, maybe you could check it out?

Posted by: waterbombe at August 14, 2008 12:59 PM

Drone, I think you had the right idea; pursue other projects. Come back to it later.

Posted by: capriciousimp at August 14, 2008 12:39 PM

Posted by: drone at August 13, 2008 11:35 PM

drone, I can understand how difficult it is to keep positive with the results so far. You are not alone as you would know from creativestuarts posts.

Both of you are to be congratulated for having the courage to make the posts. The reality is there are many more guys similiar to you who are in the same boat but dont say anything.

We see regular newspaper artices about a man drought for the 30s female. There was one in The Age last month (again). Your experience and those of others suggest these articles are sensational rather than accurate.

It seems to me that you and creativestuart are very short of match practice. You may not be hungry enough. Bottom line is you gotta really want a woman, you have to want to make love to her so much that you will burst if you dont. And I mean make love not piston sex. You gotta want to hold her in a way so that she feels safe and warm. You gotta want to caress her back and shoulders as if they are the most beautiful objects in the world.You gotta want to softly touch the edge of her mouth with your tongue so she squeaks in delight. You gotta want to brush her hair and tumble your fingers through it. You gotta want to look at her as if she is the only woman ever created. You gotta want her with with every part of you. You gotta want to love her so much you feel your guts will rip out.

OK, if the answer to all of that is yes then you are on the way and you will do whatever is needed to find her.

I am going to suggest something left field. Change your target market to women 50-60. You aint getting a thing in the sub 40 market. Yeah, I know you might want someone younger but it would be better for you to have a loving sensual relationship with an older woman for a while than no woman at all. She will teach you so much. You be genuine and caring of her and you will get love back in bucket loads. And when the time comes she will send you on your way and you will be better able to attract and keep a woman who may be your long term partner.

Now some housekeeping. Redo your pictures. You are a far better looking bloke than your pics indicate. Include a body shot,you got a good one show it. Dont take the pics yourself. Get a friend/colleague preferably female you can trust to take them. Adjust your profile wording slightly for the new target market.

Select targets to kiss. Dont worry about what their photo look like so much. You will be surprised how beautiful so many 50s woman are when you get close to them. Almost all in real life will be be much prettier than their photos.

Lastly, dont lie to them, dont hurt them but be yourself.

Read Tassiedudes posts on this blog below.
rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at August 14, 2008 11:32 AM

As I read this blog, there is one thing that stands out, intimacy is many things to many different people, the real trick is to work out what it is to our selfs not what it is to others...........to find intimacy, we have to find who & what we are

Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 14, 2008 10:18 AM

Well put, Malsie :)

Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 9:47 AM

malsie at August 14, 2008 8:47 AM

That intamacy is what keeps us all comming back here, even after drone's style of experience....

Posted by: creativestuart at August 14, 2008 9:10 AM

There have been some great posts here describing so many elements of intimacy, so much of which I agree with.
To me intimacy also entails that day to day knowledge you have about someone, the links between your life and theirs that show you care about each other.

It's great when you have that with a partner, but even if you don't have that in your life, a friend or group of friends can also fill that need for intimacy in that regard: someone who shares with you the frustration of a
2-hour drive to work because of road closures due to snow; remembers to ring or write to inquire how you got on at the dentist; (in the case of friends) empathises with the lows of your love life and happily shares your joyful times; understands the agony you're going through when traumas with children occur, or even animals, etc, etc... - the people that share the minutaie of your life, as you do theirs, is a hugely intimate thing.

Posted by: malsie at August 14, 2008 8:47 AM

Posted by: drone at August 13, 2008 11:35 PM: My Dear sweet friend you are neither bashed by the ugly stick and are a creative sould outside and in!
I am sending you a kiss as we speak because you are worth it.
While ever you are on this site you will always have your co bloggers hands to hold, find words of comfort and be ready to be hooked up with the one you want not the one you can settle second best for.
Amour . Love your self first and then everything else will fall into place.
Peace out xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 14, 2008 8:33 AM

Drone, it happens to us women as well. I get very few contacts, the ones I do get are more often than not from men older than my preferred age group. I send out a few kisses and don't often get positive responses. recently I did get 2 one was interested and wanted an email but hasn't replied to the one I sent in reply. The other was going to buy stamps but that was several weeks ago so I can only assume they were not really interested.

I am fairly ordinary as far as looks go, I accept that. But I often feel invisible. People don't acknowledge me or remember me.... I don't think I'm that bland. It happens here and off line.

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 14, 2008 8:29 AM

drone at August 13, 2008 11:35 PM

Your experience isn't unique

Posted by: creativestuart at August 14, 2008 7:56 AM

Oh and ps, Drone: don't avoid the sterotypically hot women, they can't help what they look like, it's an accident of birth. They deserve a crack at a great guy like you too. I'm serious.

Posted by: waterbombe at August 14, 2008 7:55 AM

Drone, that is so dispiriting, I feel for you. It's not like that for the women on the site, I think..well it wasn't for me, and from what I remember the other women have a better success rate than that. I think the men do get a response rate like yours though.....I hope they let you know shortly so that you don't think it's just you.

Btw I caught up with the friend who I think might be interested in you yesterday. I mentioned you and she said she'll have a look at your profile. She's a lovely person, a researcher with a doctorate and also she's a serious musician, and also is a tall long legged beautiful blonde.... I just say that to show you that the rsvp blogs can benefit you too... We grannies have single daughters/nieces/workmates who we look out for... so there's a whole bunch of contacts here too...so I wouldn't give up just yet if I were you. How about going to a blogger's meeting...or organising one yourself for the younger bloggers to meet each other? You enter a huge network then. consisting of all the bloggers and all their friends and contacts...that's a good way to increase your chances.

Posted by: waterbombe at August 14, 2008 7:54 AM

I dont know what to say Drone. That's really bad luck, no wornder you are a bit despondent. Maybe the 3 emails to which you didnt get a reply havent been on since and do have every intention of replying? I can't believe that people would be so rude as to not respond to an email if they've requested one (although I do realise it does happen). Keep your chin up, Drone. It will happen eventually. Best of luck.

Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 6:52 AM

Dear drone
Please (and I know that is easy to say) dont get frustrated. I had a look at your profile and if you were from Brisbane well I am sure I would have loved to have met you. You are not ugly at all and you have a great profile. Some of the people on this site are lucky and do find that person very easily and others (like me) go on date after date or sometimes nothing at all and never find that person - but you have to be in it to win it. I have been on the site for about 3 years if that makes you feel any better.
Some people can be so rude and heartless but brush yourself off and pick yourself up and start again.
I am sure you will find that special person - just stay in there. We have all been rejected. It is part of the dating process and I think the older we get the more depressing it can be.

Posted by: jaspercat at August 14, 2008 6:41 AM

Just an update on how I am going on this site:

I've been on this site for about 5 years. In that time I've had, I think, about 5 meetings. Anyway, about 3 weeks ago, I had a couple of dates with a woman I really liked, but after the second date, she removed her profile the next day. Presumably, she found someone she liked.

Regardless, I felt emboldened enough by that experience that I thought, well, maybe there is someone on RSVP for me, so I decided to be *much* more serious than I had been in the past about contacting people. I scoured the pages. I found 45 women who, upon reading the profiles (and not just looking at the pictures, I should stress), I *might* have a few things in common with.

So, in a departure from my usual cautious ways, I sent 45 kisses in about 9 days.

The results of this are:
20 no responses
21 I'm not interested/am following up contact with someone else.
4 I'm interested responses. Upon sending a first email, I get 3 zero responses (i.e. no return email).
I get 1 chat response, for which I have had 1 chat about 5 days ago, and that's it.

I should add that I have not been contacting stereotypically "hot" women...

Is this typical at all? I mean, I know a woman who has had 25 dates from here in 3 months.

So, I conclude from this experiment that I am either hideously ugly, or that I should amend my profile to include such informative snippets as "I'm looking for a partner in crime", "I love to laugh", blah, blah... every other commonplace that people write in their profiles here.

On the upside, I've dropped a few kilos in the last couple of months, and I should be able to change my body descriptor from "Average" to "Athletic" in about a month or so.

Look, no one on here owes me anything, and people can and should be able to make whatever choices they want. But I'm starting to think that I would be better off pursuing other projects in my spare time that would be more interesting and satisfying. Each knockback, taken individually, means nothing much to me, but cumulatively, there is some impact.

Posted by: drone at August 13, 2008 11:35 PM

Tassiedude, yes a red would be lovely thanks, the incense would preferably be Five Elements Wood, failing that, Five Elements Fire. A few songs would be nice, l like Neil Young, Heart of Gold or Old Man, hold the foot massage (too ticklish).
And yes l have a wood fire, it is crackling away as l type. Made it myself, the fire that is.
Do you like Roast Lamb with the red wine??.......................K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 13, 2008 11:19 PM

love like you have never loved... give like you have never given... each day is new!!! the past doesnt count... its all about here and now! the past is the "past" you cant change it! the "present" is a gift and tomorrow may never come? so why "stress" live for the moment and give all:)

Posted by: thornbird64 at August 13, 2008 11:14 PM

No aqueous, no mid life crisis. Always wear polish and usually black, even on my fingernails, (shock horror!!) peircings are simple and can't always be seen, and the tattoo is a me thing, and it isn't on display either. My ex would not let me to have one. Yep, wouldn't let me. So now l do things that suit ME not someone else.............K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 13, 2008 11:05 PM

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 13, 2008 8:03 PM - Letting your dog sleep on your bed will lead to difficulty should anyone else want to assume that position. The dog believes the bed is theirs and is only allowing you the benefit of use. Anyone else will have buckleys.

Posted by: auntykaz at August 13, 2008 8:20 PM - What a deviant you are...black nail polish, piercings and a tattoo! Mid-life identity crisis perhaps?

Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 13, 2008 10:37 PM

Willow: the massage and painting would of course be free. The air-fair is an entirely different matter.:)

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 13, 2008 10:29 PM

Oh if you only you guys knew!
K... Would you like me to top up your glass with a soft-bodied red, maybe a few candles, an incense stick or two? I could always serenade you with a few songs prior to massaging your feet, with soft moisturiser, and painting your toenails. Do you have an open fireplace?
Waterbombe: self-taught? I guess! I worked with a group of disabled ladies today who all wanted their fingernails painted. I thought what the hell I'd give it a go. Even managed to paint a few patterns, some glitter.
Spanky: I spent four years on the Gold Coast building Hi-rises doing Form-Work. Probably one of, if not the toughest job there is. Yes even built the Q1. Just call it multi-skilling.

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 13, 2008 10:08 PM

Posted by: jaspercat at August 13, 2008 7:54 PM - Your next partner will be ever so grateful that you did...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 13, 2008 10:06 PM

Hey Tassie, wondered where you'd got to.
Would you do a cut price on massage and painting? How lovely and indulgent would that be?

Posted by: willow29 at August 13, 2008 9:53 PM

H2H, I have to agree with your take on intimacy. There are so many facets, so many things intertwined that contribute to intimacy. I think that rather than there being an unwillingness to be intimate it can be an inability due to circumstances or where one is psychologically, at the time. For some intimacy could give a feeling of vulnerability, something they would want to avoid.

Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 13, 2008 9:38 PM

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 13, 2008 7:47 PM I reckon if I was ever asked to do that I would probably break out the masking tape and fine sand paper........ maybe you need to oversee a new blog topic, hints on the do's and DON'TS of pampering that special someone.....

Posted by: spanky668 at August 13, 2008 9:04 PM

jaspercat, that is so sad, and I can really empathise. My first marriage had a zillion reasons why it was a disaster and over but I did the usual and hung on in for the kids, until my eldest, then 15, asked me to leave him (my husband) because it was so obviously so awful, but what really made me realise it was beyond hope was when he bought me a new iron for my birthday. Zippy-doo. No wonder I avoid ironing now!
The really great thing is that I can laugh about it, and I suspect you can some days jaspercat, and I had a really great husband after him, even if only for three beautiful years, so I know it is possible to totally open up and completely love and have an amazing relationship, hence trying again on rsvp...forever the optimist, and why not :)

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 13, 2008 9:00 PM

Tassie, are you self-taught? I admire your never ending quest for knowledge.

Posted by: waterbombe at August 13, 2008 8:29 PM

Great, Tassiedude, l like black polish on the tootsies, hop on over and do a few coats will you????..............K

Posted by: auntykaz at August 13, 2008 8:20 PM

Tassiedude.. I think I need to ask on my profile for a man who does foot massage (I'd count the nail polish as a bonus LOL) In fact why not go the whole hog and say that I'd melt at any offer of massage! Touch conveys so much more than words can say and the generosity of a partner offering to do this for you (with only your pleasure and comfort in mind) speaks volumes !!!

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 13, 2008 8:17 PM

Posted by: creativestuart at August 13, 2008 7:13 PM

re:cut to the chase and allowed her to move on rather than dragging the inevitable.

Sometimes the chase is cutting and we do not allow ourselves time to drag anything out of ourselves because we sometimes know what is inevitable but a good professional will hold your spirit up and fight the fight worth fighting for, fight for your life with you or recommend a good family law counsellor so that all is fair in love and war.

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 13, 2008 7:47 PM
re: Well I don't know about everybody else. But I just learnt how to apply nail polish.

I dont know about my fellow bloggers but I love to see the light side of this posting.
Just what is needed on this page as it is all becoming dreary. Nice words but lighten up people life is no dress rehersal. If the dress (man/women) has become too small, rigid or whatever do something about it.

Talking is good but no need to slash the verbal words about and remind us all the we are all single and looking as it is a sad morning when I wake up in bed looking at my dog who lays like a guard dog at the end of my bed...................mmm..............maybe that is my problem. Wait no it can't be / the dog was here first everything else falls in line behind him. Chow for now : peace out xxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 13, 2008 8:03 PM

waternymph - yes it probably was unprofessional but from my perspective - I really needed to hear it because it was DEAD. It is funny he never ever tried to win me back either. One night - and this is so bad it is actually funny - he said OK so you want a divorce - well lets go to dinner and we will talk about it.....he took me to Big Rooster. I think that says it. You know what I got for my 10th anniversary off him???....a Hungry Jacks burger. So I will leave you guys to your laughter - and I can tell you I have shed more tears than laughter but yes OUR MARRIAGE WAS DEAD>

Posted by: jaspercat at August 13, 2008 7:54 PM

Most people become Counsellors because they like to help people (not as high paid as you may think).. I'm just setting out on a year's full time study with that in view... and because I think it would be nice to get paid for it not just dispense free solace and advice as many friends have expected of me over the years. No counsellor worth their title will tell you to do anything that you havent clearly stated for yourself. They are there merely to support your decison and guide and suggest solutions if they can.
I went to 3 Counselling sessions with my Fiance as I thought pre marital Counselling was needed .. he did not see the need .. so ultimately it failed and we split! How many times you see a Counsellor is your choice .. some people keep going back with a determination to sort things out .. others .. like my ex .. approach it with a closed mind. He still has not got over his previous marriage which ended bitterly 15 yrs ago but thinks he's put it behind him. He hasn't .. probably never will!
Intimacy with him became a struggle for me early into our 6 months of co habitation last year when the communication stumbled to a halt. He began questioning everything I said and looking for some form of anger or nastiness in each word .. till I grew as silent as him!
The Counsellor didnt make any pronouncements about us .. he first asked us to say what we loved/liked/admired about one another .. then went on to ask what we wanted from our relationship and what we wanted to do about the situation between us. He asked Ex what he thought would happen to our relationship if he saw no need to change anything in it. All he got was a stonewall .. a shrug! He then asked him did he think I'd be happy to remain in the relationship if it continued with the silence and lack of intimacy.Again the non answer. He did offer to speak to Ex without me present but that never happened... Which is why I'm now here on RSVP ... on the shelf .. and not entriely optimistic that I will find love and intimacy any time in the forseeable future.

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 13, 2008 7:52 PM

Well I don't know about everybody else. But I just learnt how to apply nail polish. So I just cant wait until the next time I give a foot massage followed by offering to slowly paint her toe nails. Should/could be quite an intimate moment I suspect.

Posted by: tassiedude1 at August 13, 2008 7:47 PM

I absolutely agree with you waternymph, how very unprofessional, even if the outcomes were functional. I wonder how much you both felt you were wasting your time after that opening comment.
I really feel for you creative. You attended for 2 months of counselling to try and get some resolution, though, and so many people won't do that. You obviously are some one who will give it your all. I feel proud to have had contact with you, on here.
Intimacy does hurt as the song says "love hurts" but then without it we would be pretty miserable I reckon.
I just wish we could find some other way than language to connect with another and to go through the relationship. It seems to me that language keeps stuffing things up because of all the misinterpretations that are both possible and likely. Sometimes the head just gets right in the way of the heart that is trying so hard to find its soulmate.
I read about a Greek myth that all humans were once spherical and Zeus got angry at them one day for climbing Mount Olympus to spy on the gods so threw them down the mountain, shattering them into two parts, and leaving humans to search through eternity for their missing other half. That certainly speaks to my heart.

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 13, 2008 7:32 PM

My Counsellor's assesment was that I was fighting a loosing battle...

Mind you she waited until after 2 months of joint sessions and a decision to end it to tell me that.

Inevitably the time of pain must come and infact jaspercat's might have cut to the chase and allowed her to move on rather than dragging the inevitable. And saved her a whole lot of money!

Posted by: creativestuart at August 13, 2008 7:13 PM

jaspercat at August 13, 2008 9:28 AM

I'm utterly amazed that a Counsellor would tell you after 5 mins that " your marriage is dead"!
How very unprofessional of her. The counsellors job is to listen and help you find your own solutions, not deliver such a devastating comment as that!!

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 13, 2008 5:45 PM

capriciousimp at August 13, 2008 3:36 PM
i can identify with your words as that is what I had with my wife.

Posted by: patc111960 at August 13, 2008 5:40 PM

Intimacy is a level of connection, not necessarily a nice feeling you get. People can still be mean to each other when they’re intimate; it just hurts more.

Posted by: capriciousimp at August 13, 2008 3:36 PM

Youareinperth, I know because my olds chucked out their double bed that long ago and brought in twin beds. My mother was quite candid about the reason, which she volunteered because she wanted to reassure me that they were not doing it because they were splitting up. I certainly wouldn't have asked them, but I did appreciate the reassurance.

Posted by: missrule at August 13, 2008 12:16 PM

Some people are not intimate by nature!

I am....of course I know about my mothers sex life....we are very close.Anglo-Saxons on the whole don't have the same type of relationships with parents....it is a "cultural thing".

Intimacy is a two way thing......it can be as subtle as the touch of a fingertip with your lover.

I hug and kiss my children all the time....a different type of intimacy.

Apart from that....some people are just more into intimacy than others.

Don't jump up and down because of my Anglo-Saxon comment.It is a generalisation and a pretty well known and accepted trait.

Posted by: musicteacher at August 13, 2008 12:13 PM

CreativeStuart
Thank you so much for your kind words. I hope we can all learn from past mistakes. I know that in the future I will not put up with that ever again. I hope you didnt go through the same. I dont know why people turn off their feelings? Ah well at least we have learnt.
You keep smiling as well.

Posted by: jaspercat at August 13, 2008 11:23 AM

Attracting and maintaining any relatioship for me is a priority.
But like the rest of the world I am living in a world that has gone mad.
I need a password to get into my life just about.
I have to work to fund my life and it takes up time that I would rather be doing other things with.
Can sometimes juggle better than a circus act but the balls sometimes fall out of my hands and onto the floor.
I like to think I get out what I put into all relationships with my kids, family, friends, co bloggers, life really.
Chow for now I think someone is looking for me as we speak - lets all look busy for the next 6 hours.
Till we meet again xxxxxxxxxxx

Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 13, 2008 11:03 AM

jaspercat at August 13, 2008 9:28 AM

That was horrible for you, but I think you are certainly on the road to recovery......

And rest assured that it can happen in the oposite way too. I am not going to go into all the details but my friends sumarise my situation as she came she took she left!

Certainly among those of us looking again there is usually a some hurt and dissapointment to get past.

Good Luck.... Keep Smiling

Posted by: creativestuart at August 13, 2008 10:13 AM

iaminperth

It depends on the relationship you have with your parents, moreso the mother daughter relationship. I know I can talk about anything with my mum and vice versa. Sometimes I mention things just to see that shocked reaction on my mums face, but she knows me so well that we end up laughing til we're almost in tears.

Posted by: egernia at August 13, 2008 9:48 AM

Intimacy encompasses everything you've mentioned H2H. I have found that intimacy hinges on compatability. Sometimes we enter into a relationship only to discover that we are smothering or being smothered. Then there are the relationships that are totally one dimensional where one partner is craving some sort of intimacy and the other is oblivious to the fact. There are many complicated dynamics in any relationship. So it's about finding the partner that you are most compatible with, loving them, sharing yourself and revelling in them. Long term intimacy is hard to find but not impossible.

Posted by: egernia at August 13, 2008 9:44 AM

Well a topic I can relate to. I was in a marriage for 10 years. The first two years were normal and then I fell pregnant with my twins. As soon as I became pregnant he stopped everything even holding hands. I felt degraded, ugly and worthless. As far as all our friends knew we were happily married but I was SO unhappy underneath it all. I blamed myself and thought there was something wrong with me. We used to go to movies that had normal kissing ect in it and I thought - what does that feel like again? I wanted out as soon as the twins were born because not only did all the intimacy stop but he also became sarcastic and insulting in front of our friends.
It took me 9 years to gather up the courage to leave him - mainly because of the children.
When we went to the marriage councillor - she said your marriage is dead within the first 5 minutes of meeting us.
Since going thru the divorce and all of that I have found that it is not abnormal for guys to lose interest when you fall pregnant with their child. They call it the Presley Syndrome.
I am still getting over it and dont think I will ever have confidence aagain but it is a learning thing and I now dont blame myself or him.

Posted by: jaspercat at August 13, 2008 9:28 AM

H2H I am sorry that you interpreted my comments as you did. I am not talking about my men or about me even but about the vast amount of research on intimacy and relationships that states exactly what I was saying in terms of intimacy.
I guess I talk with people a little wider than this strangely aggressive culture called the rsvp blogs.

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 13, 2008 9:17 AM

iaminperth.- I agree, my parents are in their 80's and what they do with their sexual life is none of my business. I am very close to both of them and I would never ASK. Gordon

Posted by: gordon1951 at August 13, 2008 9:00 AM

H2H aug 13 1.37am. Well said. I think we(males) are all getting tarred with the same brush here. i can go to bowls and cope flack for not bowling well. Least at the end of the day all is forgotten and we have a drink together. Well it looks like bowls for me. Gordon.

Posted by: gordon1951 at August 13, 2008 8:57 AM

The statement was 'parents haven't had sex in 25 years - the question was how would you know that ?

Posted by: iaminperth at August 13, 2008 8:46 AM

Joy - trust is a two-way street. So are relationships. And so is 'all they are after is sex'. Men don't have the market cornered on this. There are gold-diggers, heart-breakers, users, and just plain nasty people on both sides of the fence. I've read many of your posts - suffice to say that all men, and indeed women, aren't tarred with the same brush. Yes, there is commonality of traits in each sex, but there are equally as many crossover points.

RSVP is not about pummelling someone into the ground. It's not a get-off point to vent anger, heartache, and bile. It's not a competition to see who's heart got busted more. I hope it is a forum that is above petty mud slinging, though many of us have witnessed repercussions to the contrary. And I sincerely hope that it is an avenue to meet genuinely like people, who treasure and respect each others feelings.

No matter how heavy our own cross seems to bear, there will always be others who struggle to carry theirs, and those that appear to go on through life without a single care. That's just how life is. At the end of the day, ‘life’ it is what we make of it. We can put it under a microscope and eke out the bad. We can click our heels together down the road through a field full of daisies as if we're walking on clouds. And we can be brought back down to Earth with a sudden thud. And oh, how that can hurt. Gut-wrenchingly hurt. A pain you thought could never exist. Until now.

But can we afford to let that stifle our growth? Can we allow it to steal away our future? Our dignity? If we permit ourselves to be locked in time, we give licence to be forever imprisoned. In our own Hell. And the gate-keeper is who? Ourselves.

Intimacy, is it easy to have it? I guess that all depends on where your mind, body, heart, and soul are at. ‘Intimacy’. Such an interesting word. It can mean so many things to so many people. Does it involve trust? Does it involve love? Does it involve laughter, joy, and togetherness? That unforgettable euphemistic feeling? Holding hands? Being ‘one’? Or just… being…

Intimacy. Easy to have? Questionable. Easy to avoid? Definitely.

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 13, 2008 1:37 AM

Seems like a strange question to ask the oldies. Posted by: iaminperth at August 12, 2008 10:48 PM . Life is full of strange questions. I once complained that a meeting room was as dark as the inside of a rhinoceros and, when asked how I knew about the inside of a rhinoceros, I had to assure them that someone told me and I took their word for it. Seriously though, I'll presume to speak for my 'side' and acknowledge that the ladies call us blokes beasts because, too often, we are. Some of us try to be better people but, as a generalisation, emotionally we're a pretty thick lot. A few of us think we're cunning enough to put it over the ladies, but mostly we're just thick. The bio-chemicals have a lot to answer for, but we tend to avoid altruism in the motives for our relationships (that would require us to be reflective and make the bio-chemicals obey us instead of the other way around); and even our euphemisms are pretty clumsy. Well that should draw some 'friendly fire' if my 'side' engages with the topic. Please persist with us ladies - we're not all Sir Les Pattersons.

Posted by: dadofdave at August 13, 2008 12:24 AM

Or expect every "kiss and cuddle" to lead to sex and get upset and sulky if it doesn't!
Sadly some blokes (note I said some) equate intimacy with sex.
You can't have one without the other. If you don't feel like sex, they withdraw the intimacy.
Well that was my experience in my 22 year marriage.

Posted by: amberlight58 at August 12, 2008 11:47 PM

Joy - you need to chose a better brand of 'men'...

Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 12, 2008 11:29 PM

Gypsy

you really have hit the nail on the head.

except I'd rather be like a nice, rounded white :-)

Posted by: qualitygal1 at August 12, 2008 11:20 PM

Gypsy

you really have hit the nail on the head.

except I'd rather be like a nice, rounded white :-)

Posted by: qualitygal1 at August 12, 2008 11:19 PM

How ever do you know that your parents haven't had sex for 25 years ? Seems like a strange question to ask the oldies.

Posted by: iaminperth at August 12, 2008 10:48 PM

Unfortunately curious and creative, I have that many men who claim "I like to hold hands and cuddle" mean "I want instant sex". Men have a whole range of euphemisms and we sometimes hear what we want to hear. No wonder we get fearful of trusting, and that trust is the basis for real intimacy.

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 12, 2008 10:32 PM

Beautifully said all of you. I agree with joyfuldelite about sex can be an avoidance of intimacy. Sex, love, intimacy and friendship are separate concepts but I'd like them to be part of any relationship.
Some peopple don't realise when you want to hold their hand or cuddle and share your day you are not asking for sex but intimate connection. Many men (I don't date women so can't comment on this one!) assume you just want sex or maybe are scared to be intimate. When a man says he likes to hold hands and cuddle I think, "Oh good. Maybe he can understand more than sex." Do you agree?...J

Posted by: curiousandcreative at August 12, 2008 7:54 PM

Gypsy - you are so right. My parents have been married for almost 58 years and still have the most awe-inspiring emotional intimacy but I know they haven't had sex for more than 25 years. (Almost like me in fact :) )

Hooroo, Claire

Posted by: missrule at August 12, 2008 7:36 PM

i find intimate moments are to few and far between really. But having said that i cant really say it dissapears over time, because i havent had a long enough relationship i believe. Longest was 18months, and there were moments, but other times none at all

Posted by: metalscott at August 12, 2008 7:06 PM

Intimacy has got to be the most complex and scary topic regarding any interactions. Let's face it, to be intimate, truly intimate, we have to be open to letting someone in, to being hurt, to taking enormous risks, and the problem is that without this we are in shallow and meaningless relationships, no matter how long they last. Letting someone know you, really know you, and face them rejecting that, or growing tired of it, or misusing it is all really terrifying, but we still aim for it. Maybe that is why so many of us say "friendship first" because it feels slightly more contained in terms of boundary management, but emotional intimacy of the coupling kind demands we go beyond the safety zones of just being friends. No wonder we all want time, want to let this develop slowly. Sex can be an avoidance of intimacy, or it can be a wonderfully intimate trusting sharing. Sex isn't simple either.

Posted by: joyfuldelite at August 12, 2008 6:50 PM

Well said Gypsy .. nothing more I could add to that !

Posted by: waternymph47 at August 12, 2008 6:12 PM

Karina, what a great question and topic! Good on you for raising it. I will be interested to read the responses.

For me intimacy is something that comes with time and really getting to know someone well. It is about spending time together, not just doing stuff but also doing nothing and saying nothing. It's about being comfortable in each others presence and being able to be totally yourself... no pretense.. none at all. In my opinion many people confuse intimacy with sex, feel a need to rush into sex when they meet someone new. I am more interested to see if there are enough other interests to keep us interested in each other. For example do we share any hobbies, are we interested in any of the same things, do we share any goals, are our attitudes and philosophies or ethics in any way similar or compatible? Do we need to be around each other all the time or can we give each other some space? This also quickly eliminates the pressures that come with sex and allows the intimacy to grow at its' own natural pace. I am hopeful that I will one day meet someone with whom I can share intimacy and am also hopeful that it will mature and get better with time like a good red.

Posted by: happyseagypsy at August 12, 2008 5:06 PM

This is gonna sound...

If you treat your intimate other like a good pet owner then intimacy becomes easy. Intimacy is about looking after you partner's 'animal' - as distinct from their intellectual/public/conscious 'person'.

'A good pet owner' means you feed them, stroke them and provide a home for them on a daily basis. Of course, you can read these actions metaphorically but really I mean it literally. If you maintain this, or rather, continue to feel like you want to maintain this for someone, intimacy is assured - so long as they do it too.

This is all theory of course on my part; I'm hopeless at it!

Posted by: capriciousimp at August 12, 2008 4:07 PM