RSVP Blog
Does time really tell?
When you first meet someone, do you rely heavily on an instant connection, refusing to explore a possible relationship any further than the first coffee? Or do you give people the benefit of the doubt, even when you don't feel instantly 'connected'? Are you quick to decide someone just isn't right for you - or are you happy to go along for the ride to see what time tells you? Can you measure your compatibility with someone by the number of dates you have with them?
Have you started dating someone you weren't all too keen on, only to see the relationship blossom beautifully, or perhaps you know of someone this has happened to? Or, have you seen a relationship sustained as a sheer refuge from single-dom - even though it was/is totally dysfunctional? How long does it take you to decide whether someone is right/wrong for you? Do you have a tried and true method? Do you feel you have been accurate with every partner selection/dismissal you have made, or have you made some serious blunders? Haven't we all...
Posted by August 7, 2008 11:58 AM
Latest Comments
I hope this gets through, its classic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVD7BfStmfU&feature=related
Posted by: willow29 at August 20, 2008 12:36 PM
lifebegins47 at August 20, 2008 1:30 AM
HOORAY!!!!
And the very best wishes....
You have probaby found "it"
Congratulations!!
Posted by: creativestuart at August 20, 2008 10:03 AM
Posted by: lifebegins47 at August 20, 2008 1:30 AM - Finally! Someone who has taken a chance. Kissed a Toad and found a Prince...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 20, 2008 8:29 AM
LIfebegins - good on you! Great news and I hope it works out well for you :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 20, 2008 7:05 AM
Just an update on a previous blog. And on topic!!
As said earlier I went on a first date just over a week ago, and under my new more relaxed approach, changed my attitude about how to perceive this gentleman. Old guidelines were similiar to a lot here in that if it didnt click straight away, walk away. There was no instant spark, but some fun light hearted conversation, but nothing at all that even altered my pulse rate.
New rules therefore a second date last weekend, a day out at an auction fair ( not my choice of venue so went with a bit of a ho hum attitude, but as the day progressed he opened up more and more, a sensitive and intelligent caring man, full of ideas and charm, but still not ringing any bells.
Third date, the decider in my book, he cooked dinner in his home for me and we watched a dvd, he let me choose, and more of him opened up and we talked and laughed and I discovered a very very interesting man. Sill a bit quiet and not very outgoing, and then he kissed me goodnight...... well he blew my socks off ( and thats all, tempting as it was!) What a passionate man hiding in the quietest of souls!!!
My point is , apart from now really looking forward to the next date, is that due to reading the blogs and listening to different ideas and viewpoints from both genders, I approached this first date with a different mindset. The old one would have said, oh no, no spark no zing no second date. That would have been a great mistake as this man is just blossoming into more wonderful each time I see him. So again thanks to those that helped my thoughts, and for those with the 4 second judgement, think again, sometimes real gems take a while to be clearly seen.
Cheers to all!! xx
Posted by: lifebegins47 at August 20, 2008 1:30 AM
The wise man in a storm has an umbrella (he looked at the forecast)
Posted by: decoratress at August 19, 2008 10:27 PM
HAHA...and a set of floaties just in case Decoratress!!!................K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 19, 2008 11:26 PM
Was it Shakespeare or someone else who said: 'Whoever loved who loved not at first sight?'
Posted by: margie18 at August 19, 2008 10:45 PM
The wise man in a storm has an umbrella (he looked at the forecast)
Posted by: decoratress at August 19, 2008 10:27 PM
'''The wise man in a storm doesn't pray......if he is wise,he will use his eyes to look for and legs to run to shelter...or safety."
Posted by: musicteacher at August 19, 2008 7:18 PM
Can you comment on nothing, hobart212hal2000? It is a big subject, surely? Nothing is the sum total of what all of us don't know...it appears to be nothing because we can't see it or feel it or understand it....you don't know what you don't know ....is that any good as a start? Or should I just have another whisky?
Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 4:39 PM
WB,
He did say he'd comment when we gave him something to comment on! Sadly I can't think of anything at the moment!
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 19, 2008 11:24 AM
what has happened to this blog? It is slowing to a crawwwwlllllll. Where is HobartManyTwo's (hobart212hal2000) when you need him?
Posted by: waterbombe at August 19, 2008 10:11 AM
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 18, 2008 9:29 PM - Amen to that...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 19, 2008 12:47 AM
I've now started walking around work and asking people CAKE OR DEATH!?
I soo love watching Eddie Izzard.
Thanks heart2heart57 and Jeff from brighting my week :D
Wanda
Posted by: muffin91 at August 18, 2008 9:47 PM
ERAL, August 17 @ 3:48 PM,
Couldn't agree more! I have always found it difficult to swallow the whole "Jesus died for our sins" business!
However, I suppose if you want people to convert and "buy" your product, nothing like a good selling point for those in Jesus' time, who found the other religions all too much about taking personal responsibility for your actions! This "selling" point may have accounted for the huge uptake of Christianity in the middle ages!
In my teenage years I really wanted to believe, so I tried to read the Bible but I found I just couldn't believe in it at all.
However, over the years I have seen the comfort believing in God, has given to people going through the most terrible times and I would never begrudge anyone the comfort that having faith in a higher power gives them.
Sometimes it is the only thing that keeps a person going especially when terrible tragedy strikes.
Religious fundamentalists of any religion are scary individuals who seem unable to see things in anything other than black and white terms.
I believe it is those kinds of people of any faith, who are responsible for the terrible injustices that have been perpetrated in the name of God.
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 18, 2008 9:29 PM
This one's wet... and this one's wet... and this one's wet..this one is wet...this one is wet...did you dry these in a rainforest? Why, with the power of the Death Star do we not have a tray that is *bleep* dry...
Baron Von Vader-ham ... too much ... lmao.
Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 18, 2008 8:51 PM
browneyedozgirl August 18, 2008 1:52 PM
That quip is as about as logical as prayer. Surely a sensible person in a storm would pray that a tree didn't land on them rather than for fearlessness as they were squashed by it?
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 18, 2008 8:18 PM
"The wise man in the storm prays to God, not for safety from danger, but deliverance from fear" -- I love this, eatsrootsandleaves. In my opinion, snippets of Emersonian wisdom are always welcome...
Posted by: browneyedozgirl at August 18, 2008 1:52 PM
Jeff Vader.. Can I have your autograph?
Posted by: muffin91 at August 18, 2008 8:06 AM
Posted by: muffin91 at August 17, 2008 10:26 PM
ohh FFS - You need to speak with Mr Stevens,
and the rest of form a cue if you want food !
or "DEATH by TRAY" it shall be !
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 18, 2008 12:57 AM
is that vegitarian or vegan???????????????
Posted by: unknownauthor at August 17, 2008 11:40 PM
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 15, 2008 3:31 PM
What Men Want In Women (Age 17 to 117):
Turn up naked.
Bring beer.
:)
Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 17, 2008 11:30 PM
Would now be a good time to mention the lolspeak Bible Translation Project?
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 17, 2008 11:27 PM
Jeff...
What kind of canteen are you running here? All the trays are wet! Are you sure you didn't start a canteen in the rainforest?
Posted by: muffin91 at August 17, 2008 10:26 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 17, 2008 9:11 PM Marcus, where did you get threat from (is the addled mind of spanky rubbing off on you?????)....it is merely a comment that while you say religion is dangerous, I think that intolerance is.................... Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 8:17 PM entirely agree, and it is what I strive to do.......... and ERAL, you're on fire with the quotes tonight ....... I like "the truth you speak has no past and no future, it is and that's all it needs to be"
Posted by: spanky668 at August 17, 2008 10:22 PM
Marcus, thanks for that.
Tolerance, even if we do not agree with each other, can at times be better than arguing and challenging..... Only at times though.
And no, not bloody mindedness on your behalf, well l don't think so anyway.......K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 17, 2008 10:21 PM
here... here... Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 9:18 PM... but hey all it seems as though we have may have "deviated" from the topic???
Posted by: thornbird64 at August 17, 2008 10:09 PM
Stu...(and the rest of you 'chosen ones')
If you find it helps you to get through life...God,Dog,Buddha,Hydro,Lager,Merlin,Mecca...
Good .
"The wise man in the storm prays to God, not for safety from danger, but deliverance from fear" RWE
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 9:18 PM
auntykaz at August 17, 2008 7:45 PM
Kaz. Why? I am interested in their explanations and fascinated by the reasons why educated people believe weird things.
And perhaps bloody mindedness....
Spanky. Was that some sort of a threat or just you agreeing that intolerance, religious intolerance, has killed in it's millions and is a major reason for so much strife?
Stuart can I assume from your comments about evolution and creation that the 'project' you are working on at your block and would like a wife for is the Ballan Ark?
Seriously, there is a mountain of evidence for evolution, which importantly, is not a theory seeking to explain how life began, but none for Creation. Do you really believe the world was made in 7 days a few thousand years ago?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 17, 2008 9:11 PM
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-Buddha (536 B.C.-483 B.C.)
Posted by: thornbird64 at August 17, 2008 9:03 PM
...Because talks cheap Kaz, that's why.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 17, 2008 8:37 PM
Don't you hate it when the blogs come to a standstill in the middle of something and your reply comes in after the joke has finished? Its like yelling to someone at a nightclub over the music, and the music suddenly stops but you're still yelling.
Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 8:36 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 17, 2008 6:10 PM
Posted by spanky668 at August 17, 2008 7:56 PM
"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." ~ Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 8:17 PM
ooh I see! The food is hot...
Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 8:01 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 17, 2008 6:10 PM "faith as heavily marketed is the principal vice of religion; it is a brain virus, a meme, and can be extremely dangerous.
" ...... as can intolerance
Posted by: spanky668 at August 17, 2008 7:56 PM
Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 7:23 PM
Willow, sorry , but you'll need a tray, the food is hot !
Jeff
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 7:46 PM
Marcus, not a silly question at all, just one that you don't like.
I think you would be aware that l actually share some of your views in regards to religion etc. We have discussed that, you and l.
I understand your point of view regarding relief / faith / religion
I just don't understand why those who are religious have to prove why they are...........K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 17, 2008 7:45 PM
Its ok Mr Vader, Ive turned vegetarian.
Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 7:23 PM
thelynathdiary at August 17, 2008 6:03 PM
I am not going to recycle all that story here, the popular story is it started on the separation when Henry VIII wanted an annulment to mary Anne Boleyn in 1534, it was actually started 1000 years earlier!
Marcus you certainly like twisting things to suit your arguements. Lies would be absolutely No1 on my Bad list.
And it totally is dependant on your point of view what you decided is lies or the truth for indeed there is no absolute proof for either creation or evolution.
Concidering how many people in the world would say they are religious and how few of those (who of course get the most press) are either abusing the religionsto their own ends I would still easily argue based upon pure statistits that those who believe are more good than bad.
Also Marcus you have faith and religion so mixed up you can'y tell when you are talking about on or the other, and they are certainly very individual things. You are merely attacking based upon all the worst case (minority) circumstances.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 17, 2008 7:10 PM
Actually the funny thing i really don' t get about religion is the people here who state their religion/belief as Buddhist- and then go on about finding their "soul mate" !
huuhh??
"The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed." (Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.)
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 6:52 PM
Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 6:14 PM
Very well ! but we're going to run out of the chicken at this rate...
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 6:48 PM
Posted by: muffin91 at August 17, 2008 5:52 PM
Do you know who i am ??
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 6:36 PM
Disturbing Willow ? ( sardonic may be a better description) Intellectual even.
For the more genteel amongst us :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqi5F5MqqTQ
"The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.� Mark Twain
but "time will tell..."
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 6:27 PM
I'll have the chicken then, please :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 6:14 PM
creatorstuart August 17, 2008 4:18 PM
In your reduction it follows:
Good = believing in a fantastically improbable central point: the existence of a sky god, that a virgin birth occured, that the smelly dead arose after 3 days in a grave and that frightening the wits out of little kids with intimidation by teaching fear of hell and damnation is OK
Bad = Questioning these beliefs, exposing them as preposterous lies and seeking a rational truth outside the churches invention of a fantasy world
So, fantasising, lying, child intimidators and proposers of preposterous rubbish go to Heaven
Truthful, honest rationalists get sent to Hell
spanky668 at August 17, 2008 2:48 PM Fly check please son.
Church dogma and resitance to science set back human understanding centuries and still attempts to. think birth control info/condoms. Witness their insistence on and punishment of disageement with flat earth theory.. Well before Columbus your Savannah dwelling ancestors noticed that the shape of the earths shadow on the moon is round (like in this mornings eclipse).
There is no good reason why supernatural eavesdroppers need to be investigated. Dark matter understanding is fundamental to our proper explanation of the universe. There is direct evidence for it so it is worthy of exploration. When the LHC project gets underway shortly expect some of the questions to be answered. As those questions are answered the liklihood of creator god is vanishingly small.
And science is one of the most moral and honest disciplines around, because science would collapse if it was not for the scrupulous adherence to honesty in the reporting of evidence.
Kaz you silly question of me indicates you have not understood my point.
Hard to argue with privately held supernatural beliefs indeed but faith as heavily marketed is the principal vice of religion; it is a brain virus, a meme, and can be extremely dangerous.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 17, 2008 6:10 PM
Stuart the creation of the Anglican Church was an absolution wasn't it?
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 17, 2008 6:03 PM
I know this was asked to Stuart, but I really couldn't help myself.
I'll have the cake please... but if I am the 3rd person to ask for cake then I'll have the chicken with the white wine.
I know not many people would get this, so it was mostly aimed at eatsrootsand leaves.
Posted by: muffin91 at August 17, 2008 5:52 PM
Edward Anholt wrote the adapted screenplay for Arthur Hiller's film of the same name - "The Man in The Glass Booth"
The original play written by Robert Shaw.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 5:50 PM
Ohh well then Stuart - CAKE or DEATH ?
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 5:02 PM
I think that quote is from a disturbing play by Edward Anholt, as his character, Goldman is farewelling his 5 mistresses at a dinner table. Out of all this discussion, isnt it fascinating to see how our minds work, how indelible these beliefs, whatever they may be are fixed, how the beliefs originated in the first place, how strongly people defend them. Genetically we are all of the same race, yet so much brings people together... and divides them.
Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 4:54 PM
ERL I am Anglican and that is certainly not how my religion works!
No easy confession absolutions with us!
Far more focus on Good ==> Heaven Bad ==> Hell !!
Posted by: creativestuart at August 17, 2008 4:18 PM
My only real gripe with religion (and especially Christianity) is that encourages the delusion within the devotee, that they will be absolved from ALL their misbehavior (by JC) in exchange for their unquestioning faith in 'him'.
"Just believe in me and you are saved from eternal damnation..."
In the words of playwright, Robert Shaw - "A Christian is just a nervous Jew, who thinks he bought himself a A1 insurance policy !"
(PS - Never forget that 80 Million Germans backed Hitler's final solution - were they all psychotic ?)
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 17, 2008 3:48 PM
amberlight58 at August 17, 2008 1:42 PM
I think that the most of those now looking are doing way too much thinking and now where near enough doing. Certainly this is the case with the 30 something girl...
In one of my favoutite Elvis songs it is all correct....
A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation aint satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me
Satisfy me baby
Baby close your eyes and listen to the music
Drifting through a summer breeze
Its a groovy night and I can show you how to use it
Come along with me and put your mind at ease
A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation aint satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me
Satisfy me baby
Come on baby Im tired of talking
Grab your coat and lets start walking
Come on, come on
Come on, come on
Come on, come on
Dont procrastinate, dont articulate
Girl its getting late, gettin upset waitin around
A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation aint satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me
Satisfy me baby
As for me whilst I am obviously attracted to a pretty girl, what is going on inside her is a whole lot more important than the packaging when it comes to relationships.
And indeed when it comes to looks I am actually far more attracted to a girl who is more "Kate Fischer" womanly than "Kate Moss" stick figure. I'm a sucker for curves and a mane of brunette hair.
This is how it has always been for me.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 17, 2008 2:52 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 16, 2008 7:17 PM Some would argue that there is evidence, just not measurable in the way you would like it to be......... just as dark matter (in astronomy/physics) can only be inferred from other phenomenon....... it is a way of explaining what we see, observe "know" to be true, but has no tangible measurable existence that we can definitively prove (its existence makes other things make sense, but cannot be directly measured ..........sound familiar Marcus) ........people keep arguing as if there is an absolute truth that we humans have figured out, in times of Columbus the Earth was "known" to be flat, at other times the universe revolved around the earth, the atom was the smallest nuclear particle......... why do we still purport to have all the answers when clearly we do not............
Posted by: spanky668 at August 17, 2008 2:48 PM
Amber: "Looking" is the word! lol
Posted by: willow29 at August 17, 2008 2:16 PM
Willow @ 4:21 PM August 15,
I'd bet there are a lot of guys out there that are looking for the same thing at 60 that they were looking for at 20!
Hey Eral, who says we are THAT desperate at any age? (Upwards of 32)
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 17, 2008 1:42 PM
Here, here, Kaz!
I find the constant need to continually interrogate people to somehow justify their beliefs very boring and verging on "bullying" behaviour.
Why should anyone have to justify their spiritual beliefs to you, Marcus?
Just let it be!
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 17, 2008 1:01 PM
laughsandtalks at August 16, 2008 7:19 PM: I'm really interested in the neandertals - mainly how they coexisted with our forebears for so long.
I have a theory, based on 3 pieces of evidence:
* They were shorter but much stronger and burlier.
* Adult male skeletons studied have a typical injury pattern which correlates very closely with modern human rodeo riders/buckjumpers.
* Their eye sockets were much larger, suggesting huge eyes (the origin of "the boogie man"?)
My theory is that they were night hunters, driving deer etc along a trail beneath trees from which more of them would play "drop bear".
This would give them a food source unavailable to us, till we invented the hidden pit floored with sharp stakes, or the bow and arrow.
The neandertals took good care of their elderly, including those seriouusly crippled with arthritis, and one young adult female was found buried after she'd been covered in a deep blanket of flowers. Our close cousins, I reckon.
Posted by: timewarp1 at August 16, 2008 11:36 PM
Marcus, a question. .....Why is it so very important to you that the faith / belief of others be proven as fact??
Do they not have a right to believe in whatever they wish, just as you have a right not to??
I think my views on faith and religion have been written of here before, but l don't begrudge anyone the right to believe. I fail to see why you can't do the same...............K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 16, 2008 10:14 PM
I think the blogs have been moderated into oblivion. We are now so totally off any kind of topic discussing the never ending debate- religion. Then we have dogs, which is great as I love dogs, all kinds but what has that got to do with anything. Anything that is posted is now moderated and fiddled with to such an extent that it makes no sense when eventually turns up. Yet, long drawn out egotistical nonsense which has no relevance to anything in everyday life always get thru. Saying the same things, trying to justify their own existence and quite frankly talking a load of rubbish with no connection to reality. I think it's a huge shame as the blogs were once a bit of fun, now they are boringly indifferent.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 16, 2008 8:57 PM
istj54 at August 16, 2008 11:45 AM
Your first, recognizably modern human boyfriend probably first appeared about 160000 years ago in Africa. He was a homo sapiens, his predecessors where the various intermediate, archaic homo erectus.
You may have wanted to date a neanderthal boy but there would have been a bit of tribal resistance. Recent studies have shown them to be a genetically distinct but living alongside moderns until perhaps 28000 in Europe.
Anyway these blokes trace back their common ancestors to the rise of mammals 160mya and through all our various ancestors when life began est. 4bya
and perhaps in the deep hot rocks below the earths surface or the hot sulphurous vents of undersea volcanoes or perhaps in Willow's primordial soup.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 16, 2008 7:19 PM
missrule at August 16, 2008 3:22 PM
You are at it again pretending that somehow faith has as worthy a place as reason. It doesn't. Faith requires no justification, offers no rationale or explanation. It is precisely what you are arguing, that 'faith is faith' that propels bomb belt fitted terrorists or the more benign seeming but equally abhorent American style fundamentalist warmongering science decriers.
As far as proof required there is ample. Suicide bombers shout God is Great before they detonate and various murderers of abortion Dr's in the States regulalry invoke God in their defence. As far the existence of God goes, well, we have been waiting a while and not a scintilla of evidence has been presented by the 'for' side- and there is no good reason to think it ever will because almost anything 'believed' can be explained, yes rationally.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 16, 2008 7:17 PM
I dont know why most are having such a hard time with dealing with nature.
Wild human children that have been found living amongst wild animals show the true nature of the ape with, they scream the smash they fight etc like other apes ...
Without the imitative conditioning of civilsed parents, we are not much more than a smart monkey.
And it doesn't take much to return a civilized man to that form either. Sent to fight for himself in a brutal war, or starved by a famine etc, and you will see how quickly he/she remembers what their nails and teeth are for.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 16, 2008 5:26 PM
Marcus, I don't pretend to understand the mind of a suicide bomber. How could I, or you, when in many cases their own parents are horrified to find out what kind of creature they have been nurturing?
Most religions, as far as I know, prescribe respect for life and for your fellow humans. Certainly my Muslim friends (I don't have many, but enough to get a general feel for it) say that this is true of Islam and the fundamentalist nutters are twisting and abusing the religion to their own ends. (Sorry - that bad pun again.)
As I've said before, my faith is my faith and if I didn't want to believe what my particular "branch" of Christianity told me, I would leave and find another (in fact, I have done so twice in the past). Nobody is forced into conforming to one belief or the other these days - indeed, it's almost unfashionable to follow a mainstream religion. Well, I never pretended to be fashionable. I do drive a Mazda Tribute, after all :)
You have chosen to reject the whole shebang and I respect your right to do so. You might believe I am deluded but I believe I'm not. As I said previously, there is no proof either way so can we just leave it at that?
PS it's spelt "blithely" honey ;)
Posted by: missrule at August 16, 2008 3:22 PM
Primordial soup anyone? Or is the wrong blog?
Posted by: willow29 at August 16, 2008 2:21 PM
istj54 - yea, somethimes you can tell as soon as you meet a person that it will definitely not work, no point investing time into it. Somethimes the body language does the trick, other times the contradiction in values and attitudes! And yes, it might happen that the firts impression is positive and you are willing to explore the possibilities, but over 3-6-12 months or even years you realise there is no real potential there...this is all like a 'game'...
A simple example: just by reading people's postings on these
community bloggs I have a good idea where people's values, self esteem, communication skills, intellectual capacity, emotional maturity is, how they handle differences and challenges, how would they behave in a relationship when conflicts arise - are they "I am OK - you re not OK" or "I am OK - you are OK too" or "I am not OK - You are not OK either" types? Are they controlling or likely to see 'win-win' solutions? Are they aggressive or caring? Are they open to listen to others and hear them or they are self absorbed? Flexible minded or rigid?These things are very important in a relationship! Somethimes it takes time to work out whether it is possible to resolve conflicts in a healthy, 'win-win' manner...other times you can tell immediately...also, people who disregard personal boundaries at the very first meeting (lean too close, almost in your face; want to touch you )
are usually controlling individuals...from job interviews I had in the past, I have learned that when I felt really safe and comfortable at the interview, I was able to be fully myself - I was the happiest at those jobs...when the presence of some interviewers made me tense and feeling as I had to 'prove' something - I disliked the job with that organisation. The culture of the place...I have not much experience with meeting men who I do not know, but that limited experience taught me the same thing: if I am nervous and tense in the company of that man, it's a good sign that something is not right for me there....
Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 16, 2008 1:43 PM
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 16, 2008 10:46 AM - Beautifully said...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 16, 2008 12:23 PM
...I meant the very first man ever...please explain how he...or she, came to be, Marcus. There must be some "believable/provable/evidential" explanation for me so that I can give up my faith and believe in all the scientific theories.
Posted by: istj54 at August 16, 2008 11:45 AM
istj54
something to do with sexual reproduction being a good idea from the point of view of genetic diversity and also the design and building of houses, cars, clothing and protection from other men.
Cheers M
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 16, 2008 11:00 AM
Once there lived a village of creatures along the bottom of a great crystal river.
The current of the river swept silently over them all - young and old, rich and poor, good and evil, the current going it's own way, knowing only it's own crystal self.
Each creature in it's own manner clung tightly to the twigs and rocks of the river bottom, for clinging was their way of life, and resisting the current what each had learned from birth.
But one creature said at last, 'I am tired of clinging. Though I cannot see it with my eyes, I trust that the current knows where it is going. I shall let go and let it take me where it will. Clinging, I shall die of boredom.
The other creatures laughed and said, 'Fool! Let go, and that current you worship will throw you tumbled and smashed against the rocks, and you will die quicker than boredom!'
But the one heeded them not, and taking a breath did let go, and at once was tumbled and smashed by the current across the rocks.
Yet in time, as the creature refused to cling again, the current lifted him free from the bottom, and he was bruised and hurt no more.
And the creatures downstream, to whom he was a stranger, cried 'See a miracle! A creature like ourselves, yet he flies! See the Messiah come to save us all!'
And the one carried in the current said, "I am no more messiah than you. The river delights to lift us free, if only we dare let go. Out true work is this voyage, this adventure."
But they cried the more, 'Savior!' all the while clinging to the rocks, and when they looked again he was gone, and they were left alone making legends of a Savior."
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 16, 2008 10:46 AM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 15, 2008 6:15 PM ...so explain to me, please, how the first man came to be.
Back on topic...time can and does tell in every way...not just dating. You can tell within seconds if someone is not for you, or it can take a few dates. Once into a relationship, three months seems to be a time when decisions are made...then six...then it's either a habit for all sorts of reasons...or, just maybe, the real deal.
Posted by: istj54 at August 16, 2008 7:20 AM
missrule August 15, 2008 9:53 PM
I take it that the bit about not blaming religion for it's followers behaviour was your comedy lapse for the week?
I'ts true men all have the equipment for rape but there is no movement exhorting men to do this and almost no self respecting men do.
Religion on the other hand demands respect because it is religious faith. Removing that mistaken principle of respect would go along way to alerting people that teaching of 'moderate' religion is an invitation for extremism. You don't have to make any case for what you believe. In any other field telling the palpable falsehoods that religion blythely does would have you run out or prosecuted certainly not given respect and dangerous legitimacy. Where does the faithhead as that most frighteningly lethal of weapon's the suicide bomber come from? A junior soccer team?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 16, 2008 4:05 AM
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 10:56 PM
Stu, every car is fitted with seatbelts and most with at least one airbag. That is compulsory.
Not every driver takes the drink driving laws on board as we know. Surely the introduction of compulsory fitting of seatbelts, and with it the wearing of them would be at least on a par with the drink driving laws?
My ex used to and still does drive home from the city drunk. Has done for years. Always wore a seatbelt, NEVER been breathtested, more is the pity! Silly booger!............K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 16, 2008 1:45 AM
Posted by: auntykaz at August 15, 2008 7:35 PM
Kaz, I think the worst road toll year was 1970 and the 1034 campaign started in 71.
The only reason my mates and I are alive apart from a lot of luck is that we never drank and drove. We street raced ( and I dont mean wanko 400 metre sprints) 180 kays over King street bridge one night. It helped that the car I was racing turned out to be driven by an off duty cop. Sure helped when the paddy wagon finally caught us in Queens road.
Brisbane to Melbourne 14.5 hours. Ahhh memories... memories.
Modern petrol heads dont know how easy they have got it. 110kw was big power then now they have 300+ That's enough to drive a block of flats fast.
And those lovely girls in their bright orange hot pants, mini skirts and panty girdles.
Pity about all the poor buggers that got themselves killed including 4 of my school mates.
rgds grego
Posted by: grego7 at August 16, 2008 12:03 AM
Posted by: waterbombe at August 15, 2008 9:40 PM - I'm with you girlfriend! Sometimes less is best.
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 15, 2008 11:59 PM
Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars, but check when you say the paint is wet ?
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 15, 2008 11:13 PM
eatsrootsandleaves at August 15, 2008 3:31 PM I think the 32 should now be revised to 42, those at 32 are still on the teenage/20's list...
Posted by: auntykaz at August 15, 2008 7:35 PM
Yes Seatbelts was a biggie, by far the biggest advance was the drink driving laws though and mores the pity alcohol still is over 25% contributory.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 10:56 PM
My big pooch has a seat belt when she rides in the car. 38kgs in the event of an accident would not be a good feeling. Plus she would be projected right out the front windscreen I would think. My car also has 8 airbags so I think they would be a bit of a shock if they all inflated at once. I hope it never happens, be a bit like being stuck in a bouncy castle I think.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 15, 2008 10:53 PM
Ive shut the door on yesterday
Its sorrows and mistakes
Ive locked within its gloomy walls
Past failures and heartaches
And now I throw the key away
To seek another room
And furnish it with love and smiles
And every spring time bloom
No thought shall enter this abode
That has a hint of pain
And every malice and mistrust
Shall never therein reign
Ive shut the door on yesterday
And thrown the key away
Tommorrow holds no doubts for me
Since I have found TODAY
Posted by: country47 at August 15, 2008 10:52 PM
Hear, hear, piscesgirl. I have my faith - I know what it is, I live my life according to it, I am not ashamed of it and I feel no need to defend it. Others may believe whatever they choose - just don't try to tell me what to believe, or not to believe.
As it happens, both my sons are atheists but I don't love them any the less for that (and I might add, nor does Jesus :) ). A little bit of tolerance goes a long way. After all, nobody is ever going to prove the point one way or another, so why bother arguing? To me it has no more "point" than fighting over how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, as medieval scholars apparently did. Wow, did they need to get out more.
And stating that religion causes violence is no different from stating that being male causes violence. Some men and some religious adherents are violent, some aren't. You can't blame a religion for its followers' shortcomings, any more than you can chop off men's goolies because some blokes let the side down!
Posted by: missrule at August 15, 2008 9:53 PM
Marcus, I did not say "behaviour is taught to children" and I agree with you that is not how or where their moral sense comes from.
Like Stu, you have not read what I said. Instead, you have heard what I did not say. This stuff is difficult to explain, especially to people with firmly entrenched ideologies such as yourself and Stu. A blog is not the place to do it, it would require a book, so I'll leave it alone.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 15, 2008 9:40 PM
piscesgirl56 at August 15, 2008 6:49 PM
It's very important to respect freedom of expression The freedom to articulate a point of view is fundamental to our highly evolved and effective system.
With that freedom comes the price that ideas you espouse may be critically examined and conclusions drawn. This examination and selection and rejection of things is responsible for our highly effective social system. It is quite legitimate to make comment on peoples different belief or customs and if sometimes those seem harsh, and happen on the RSVP blog so be it.
As a good example of this someone might consider you have chosen an astrological symbol for your profile name. Despite there being not a shred of evidence or rationality in favor of any of the astrological pronouncements people are still being taken in by this Babylonian era astronomical fraud. You have suggested that men from only 5 of the 12 'signs' are your suitable sexual partners. I find it remarkably soft headed that a lonely, 21st century post. grad level, material girl would ostensibly rule out 7/12 of the male population because of this quackery that has invaded your brain. Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 15, 2008 8:20 PM
Waterbombe@5.08...I have an Italian pal who named his pooch "deo"......
Posted by: ssshhh at August 15, 2008 8:09 PM
Well l would have to say that riding in cars without seatbelts was probably not that great on reflection.
I remember one year the advertising slogan for road safety was "declare war on 1034".
That is the number of people who had died on Victorian roads the previous year.
I think it was very early 70's possibly late 60's. No seatbelts in the car my dad drove, a wee blue Fiat.
One would have to say that is one "remember when" moment l am glad is not around now.
Piscesgirl, whilst my religious beliefs / faith is non existant, you and anyone else have the right to those beliefs, certainly.
As l have said before, the comfort that religion gives some people is obviously a positive for them. That it doesn't for me is inconsequential to anyone but me..............K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 15, 2008 7:35 PM
Posted by: dadofdave at August 15, 2008 12:43 AM
dad if you read enough of these blogs you will note that a couple of the bloggers take perverse delight in seeing how they can turn the direction of the blogs to any point they wish to aim it. Any efforts to return to the Original topic, will be met with some form of personal insult and a further effort to change the subject again.
Sad life isnt it ?
You are right Pisces(piscesgirl56 at August 15, 2008 6:49 PM) but some people are simply best ignored!
Posted by: waternymph47 at August 15, 2008 7:34 PM
as I said, I am new to RSVP...I joined the communities in hope that I can exchange ideas, opinion and experiences with similar minded adults in a civil way.
I just shared my experience and opinion with you all, I believed, in a non judgemental, non abusive, non critical way. And I truly respect the fact that others think differently, it does not say anything about me as a person or them as individuals.
However, when somebody feels the need to become arrogant, aggressively defensive of his/her opinion/values/believes, when he'she feels the need to attack personally and to try to put down those who disagree with them,when differences are viewed as treat rather than what they are - just differences, that's when one can have a clear idea where these individuals stand with their own positive sense of self worth... people with healthy self esteem do not need to engage in power games, they do not need to use aggression to prove themselves or protect their opinion, they do not need to put others down to feel better about themselves : they are open towards others with positive attitude and healthy curiousity. What a boring world would this be if we would all be the same and think the same and have the same values and believes??? There is a huge potential for growth in differences, we should not fear them!
Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 15, 2008 6:49 PM
waterflambe at August 15, 2008 5:06 PM
If you are discussing the origins of human virtue or our moral sense I don't think you are understanding where, how and why it has evolved. It ha cutural overlay of mores and behaviour is taught to children but that is not how or where their moral sense comes from. A moments reflection rather than obeying your 'attack the downed bloke' instinct (Stu) might have you wondering where then did the parents get their sense from. Our society depends on moral behaviour. Society was not invented by reasoning men. It evolved as part of our genes It is much a product of our genes as our bodies are. You have to look inside brains at the instincts for creating and exploiting the social bonds that are there and see how the competitive business of evolution can give rise to cooperative instincts. It took about a billion years for genes to form cooperative teams, a million years for our ancestors to form cooperative societies and about the last thousand years for us to 'see' our societies and their origins.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 15, 2008 6:15 PM
Kurli....at your age, you look stunning and gorgeous, I wished myself in 25 years from now, same looks as you are....lovely :)
Posted by: exoticorigin at August 15, 2008 5:56 PM
hi stuart i remember all that it was great wasnt it . what about cracker night and getting six of the best from the headmaster or the local policeman booting you up the arse and telling you go home didnt do me any harm .also there where no teenage gangs then the law has a lot to answer for
Posted by: chad1958 at August 15, 2008 5:36 PM
Did you hear about the dyslexic man who walked into a bra? Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 1:23 PM . lol, Willow. Did you hear about the dyslexic agnostic insomniac who laid awake at night wondering if there was a dog?
Posted by: waterbombe at August 15, 2008 5:08 PM
"All that has been posed is that values are passed down from generation to generation"....Stu, this is not what I said. Have another read because you misunderstood it. I think you might have your own ideas so firmly fixed in your mind that it will be difficult for you to see an alternative viewpoint....that's not a put down, but I think it is something that is standing in your way. You will have to remove that obstacle before you can see that other people have a valid point of view (valid, even if you don't agree). The beginning of morality has nothing to do with rules or principles being handed from generation to generation. It has to do with care being given to the child. Now I'd just type what I typed before so if you are interested you could re-read it.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 15, 2008 5:06 PM
ERAL@3.31pm:
No wonder I'm not having any success on RSVP.......
only dinosaurs left ,vegetating in front of tv.
Looks like I'm doomed to life alone!
Posted by: kurli at August 15, 2008 5:02 PM
Willow....yep...still remember the original list, it was posted last year, by Jenjen57. I still got sharped memories so far so good.
Posted by: exoticorigin at August 15, 2008 4:47 PM
Now do a man's list ERAL :P
Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 4:21 PM
ERAL@3.31pm Hey, I still want the original list!
Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 4:16 PM
Exotic, I can't think of that song without thinkng of Mr Bean!
Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 4:04 PM
What Women Want in a Man
Original List:
1. Handsome
2. Charming
3. Financially successful
4. A caring listener
5. Witty
6. In good shape
7. Dresses with style
8. Appreciates finer things
9. Full of thoughtful surprises
10. An imaginative, romantic lover
What Women Want in a Man, Revised List (age 32)
1. Nice looking
2. Opens car doors, holds chairs
3. Has enough money for a nice dinner
4. Listens more than talks
5. Laughs at my jokes
6. Carries bags of groceries with ease
7. Owns at least one tie
8. Appreciates a good home-cooked meal
9. Remembers birthdays and anniversaries
10. Seeks romance at least once a week
What Women Want in a Man, Revised List (age 52)
1. Not too ugly
2. Doesn't drive off until I'm in the car
3. Works steady - splurges on dinner out occasionally
4. Nods head when I'm talking
5. Usually remembers punch lines of jokes
6. Is in good enough shape to rearrange the furniture
7. Wears a shirt that covers his stomach
8. Knows not to buy champagne with screw-top lids
9. Remembers to put the toilet seat down
10. Shaves most weekends
What Women Want in a Man, Revised List (age 62)
1. Keeps hair in nose and ears trimmed
2. Doesn't belch or scratch in public
3. Doesn't borrow money too often
4. Doesn't nod off to sleep when I'm venting
5. Doesn't retell the same joke too ma ny times
6. Is in good enough shape to get off couch on weekends
7. Usually wears matching socks and fresh underwear
8. Appreciates a good TV dinner
9. Remembers your name on occasion
10. Shaves some weekends
What Women Want in a Man, Revised List (age 72)
1. Doesn't scare small children
2. Remembers where bathroom is
3. Doesn't require much money for upkeep
4. Only snores lightly when asleep
5. Remembers why he's laughing
6. Is in good enough shape to stand up by himself
7. Usually wears some clothes
8. Likes soft foods
9. Remembers where he left his teeth
10. Remembers that it's the weekend
What Women Want in a Man, Revised List (age 82)
1. Breathing
2. Doesn't miss the toilet.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 15, 2008 3:31 PM
dadofdave August 15, 2008 12:43 AM
"Marcus, you really aught to do some homework son.
Argue your opinion as much as you like, but at least find a library and do some reading in Religious History 101 and leave assertions out of it. As you've particularly taken aim at the Christian religion you might start with the likes of Josephus et al and then move on to the other major religions. You might also put some effort into reading at least some basic religious archaeology texts... blah blah blah"
Thanks for that DOD. One of the basic principles iinvolved in a blog critique is spelling out and then challenging, correcting or providing an alternative to the offending viewpoint. I'm quite open to changing my view when the evidence changes, in line with a rational, scientific approach
You have posted an attack on me, suggested I need to do this or that but given no detail on where you think my fact or logic is faulty, and provided no alternative information.
A bit like the systems you are apearing to defend; all bluster, assertion and threat but no evidence of any kind for the central tenet.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 15, 2008 3:28 PM
Hi Creativestuart....your post to Dear God...
.....Alleluia....Alleluia....Alleelluuiaa.....
Posted by: exoticorigin at August 15, 2008 3:25 PM
P.S. I think we end up hijacking blogs because ultimately we are all here to find partners, ....all enjoy the camaraderie and sometimes the actual on topic discussions don't take us long.
what he said! :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 2:49 PM
grego7 - it also depends on how highly you rate the bible
Posted by: metalscott at August 15, 2008 2:22 PM
Posted by: waterbombe at August 15, 2008 10:57 AM
WB, absolutely correct. It was not good sense for the Romans to execute Christ because it did not eliminate civil unrest in the province.
rgds grego
Posted by: grego7 at August 15, 2008 1:56 PM
P.S. I think we end up hijacking blogs because ultimately we are all here to find partners, are all a little lonely, all enjoy the camaraderie and sometimes the actual on topic discussions don't take us long.
Like this one we very quickly all disagreed and then almost accidentally found something more controversial / interesting to discuss. :-)
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 1:51 PM
CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE KIDS WHO WERE BORN IN THE
1920's, 30's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's !!
First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us and lived in houses made of asbestos.
They took aspirin, ate blue cheese, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes or cervical cancer.
Then after that trauma, our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paints.
We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets or shoes, not to mention, the risks some of us took hitchhiking.
As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.
Riding in the back of a Ute on a warm day was always a special treat.
We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle.
Take away food was limited to fish and chips, no pizza shops, McDonalds, KFC, Subway or Red Rooster.
Even though all the shops closed at 6.00pm and didn't open on the weekends, somehow we didn't starve to death!
We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.
We could collect old drink bottles and cash them in at the corner store and buy Fruit Tingles and some fire crackers to blow up frogs and lizards with.
We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank soft drinks with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......
WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.
We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. We built tree houses and cubby houses and played in creek beds with matchbox cars.
We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, no video tape or DVD movies, no surround sound, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!
We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no Lawsuits from these accidents.
Only girls had pierced ears!
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
You could only buy Easter Eggs and Hot Cross buns at Easter time.......no really!
We were given BB guns and sling shots for our 10th birthdays,
We drank milk laced with Strontium 90 from cows that had eaten grass covered in nuclear fallout from the atomic testing at Maralinga in 1956.
We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!
Mum didn't have to go to work to help dad make ends meet!
Footy had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!
Our teachers used to belt us with big sticks and leather straps and bully's always ruled the playground at school.
The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!
Our parents got married before they had children and didn't invent stupid names for their kids like "Kiora" and "Blade".....
This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!
The past 70 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.
We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned
HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL! And YOU are one of them! CONGRATULATIONS!
You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated our lives for our own good.
And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave their parents were.
Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't it?!
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 1:44 PM
aqueousdb66 at August 15, 2008 1:22 PM
Whenever I have docked sheep I have always done it with a tiny rubber band
And muelsing has never been done anywhere I have been involved! I agree that is a barbaric practice.
Exasperating.... I many here have belief and religion all mixed up!
Stoic hardly, it is my passion for discovering the truth that has me question.
And also to ask people to offer an alternative not pick on what someone says or believes if they don't agree..
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 1:38 PM
aqueousdb66 at August 15, 2008 12:43 PM
I agree that religion was criticized for it's abuse and shortcomings (many of which I believe should be called to question and indeed many of which I think are extreme and wrong) Thus I agree with religion having many shortcomings. Indeed my more recent experience with "religions" is a lot like piscesgirl56. In general terms with many religions I see a lot of words and not much positive action.
And whilst there has been some lively discussion. Mixing up belief and religion.
There has been some balanced and very interesting points of view, and some not so..
There has however not been an alternative view on the basis of morality being "to some sort of belief" posed.
All that has been posed is that values are passed down from generation to generation
Which is exactly what religion does with the belief in their chosen God and/or prophet's teachings. (yes sometimes with shortcomings or incorrect personal agendas)
Values still require an alternative start point if not belief in some higher being.
Just as Greg said, "that you cannot "centre around" something but must "centre on". Revolve around perhaps although beliefs are better centered than revolving"
I am not saying that anyone else is wrong with what they have said, but I don’t see any alternative yet.
I am ultimately just having people think…
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 1:30 PM
Did you hear about the dyslexic man who walked into a bra?
Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 1:23 PM
Really Stu, you are exasperating! But the Letter to God from the Dog has made me laugh.
Sheep, although having their tails docked in the same way as dogs, experience much more barbaric treatment (over and above their systematic slaughter). Mulesing entails running a knife around the area to remove the wool bearing skin. The reason for this painful and cruel practice is the lifetime protection against blowfly, which incidently can be more humanely controlled by crutching. There is no research to indicate successful mulesing. No one would argue a flyblown sheep is a very distressing sight and absolutely horrendous, but the premise: to mutilate ‘just in case’ is not acceptable. Mulesing is a lazy farming practice.
Forget peace!
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 15, 2008 1:22 PM
I love the dog letter, Stuart.
Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 1:03 PM
Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 14, 2008 9:16 PM - It is telling me that God is a living positive spiritual force in human soul - some people are sensitive to His 'voice' (these people are naturally positive, loving and non judgemental) others have successfully supressed this inner 'voice' (they are the negative forces in this world regardless of their religion)...
Are you not being as invective as you claim others are being by this comment. We all have the right to our opinions and the RSVP moderators have the right to veto these opinions if they choose.
Posted by: dadofdave at August 15, 2008 12:43 AM - If Marcus et al want to sink the boot into others' belief systems my challenge to them is to either do their homework and at least get the basic facts straight (instead of being armchair experts)...
Why don't you enlighten us DD? With your education i would expect a clear and concise reply without the need for verbosity. The orginal discussion arose because Stu asked for an alternative view, which was provided however he seems unable to acknowledge this. Stoic perhaps?
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 15, 2008 12:43 PM
I agree with the last posting.
Please play nice and stick to the topics.
I love to read your postings but log off when it gets off the topic.
Please don't give me a verbal upper cut for this posting as it is a serious turn off for me and not for you.
However just want to remind my dear sweet co bloggers that there is a feedback button over there :::::::::::::::::::>>>>>>>>>>>>>
to your right and if you tell the mouse that runs the server to tell the wizard of oz that runs this site what you want to debate I have a feeling you will get your wish.
Peace out xxxxxxxxxlove you allxxxxxxxbe kind to each otherxxxxxxxxxxxxand stick to the subject and I will forever be your co bloggers for as long as I remain on this site xxxx peace out xxx
Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 15, 2008 12:41 PM
LETTER to GOD From: The Dog
Dear God: Why do humans smell the flowers, but seldom, if ever, smell one another? How can they get to know one another?
Dear God: When we get to heaven, can we sit on your couch? Or is it still the same old story?
Dear God: Why do you have cars named after the jaguar, the cougar, the mustang, the colt, the stingray, and the rabbit, but not ONE named for a dog? How often do you see a cougar riding around in a car? We dogs do love a nice car ride! Would it be so hard to rename the “Chrysler Eagle” the “Chrysler Beagle”?
Dear God: If a dog barks his head off in the forest and no human hears him, is he still a bad dog?
Dear God: We dogs can understand human verbal instructions, hand signals, whistles, horns, clickers, beepers, scent ID's, electromagnetic energy fields, and Frisbee flight paths. What do humans understand?
Dear God: More meatballs, less spaghetti, please.
Dear God: Are there mailmen in Heaven? If there are, will I have to apologize?
Dear God: Let me give you a list of just some of the things I must remember to be a good dog:
1. I will not eat the cats' food before they eat it, or after they throw it up.
2. I will not roll on dead seagulls, fish, crabs, etc., just because I like the way these dead things smell.
3. I will not munch on "leftovers" in the kitty litter box, although they are tasty.
4. The garbage bin is not a cookie jar.
5. The sofa is not a face towel. Neither are Mom and Dad's laps.
6. The garbage collector is not actually stealing our stuff.
7. My head does not belong in the refrigerator.
8. When the officer reaches in for Mom's driver's license and registration, I will not bit his hand
9. I will not play tug-of-war with Dad's underwear when he's on the toilet.
10. Sticking my nose into someone's crotch is an unacceptable way of saying "hello".
11. I don't need to suddenly stand straight up when I'm under the coffee table.
12. I must shake the rainwater out of my fur before entering the house --- not after.
13. I will not throw up in the car.
14. I will not come in from outside and immediately drag my butt across the carpet.
15. When we have company, I will not sit in the middle of the living room and lick my crotch
16. The cat is not a “squeaky toy”, so when I play with him and he makes that noise, it's usually not a good thing.
And, finally, my last question:
Dear God: Why do humans only have 10 Commandments But dogs have 16?
PS Dear God: When I get to Heaven may I have my testicles back? Please?
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 12:22 PM
How comical - a blog simultaneously running along two themes : GOD; and DOG .
Perhaps we have some dyslexic bloggers here ?
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 15, 2008 12:03 PM
lambs still have their tails docked for sanitary reasons, otherwise you would have to be cleaning them all the time.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 11:58 AM
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 14, 2008 2:37 PM . You got my point exactly, aqueous. It is the family that, through love and care, creates a predisposition for good moral actions in children. Children who are warmly attached to the people in their families treat other kids well in general, and as they mature, they continue to treat others well (with small abberations from time to time, naturellement).
Grego, re your quiz, I think the incorrect bit is "good sense". And I will no longer "centre around", that clearly shows lack of focus, committment and dedication. I will, from now on, centre on. ;-)
Posted by: waterbombe at August 15, 2008 10:57 AM
I agree malsie,
Although such debates are interesting, people have personal beliefs that are important to them.
Questioning another's beliefs (and even making fun of them) can often be construed as a personal attack. We all have our reasons why we believe in a God, or higher power in any religion, or conversely choose not to believe.
This doesn't make us "right" or bad or stupid or even unreasonable, just different to each other.
As long as our beliefs don't result in us being cruel, unkind or cause us to mentally or physically hurt someone else, why does it really matter?
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 15, 2008 10:42 AM
I can remember as a child my grandfather docking the tails of the little Fox Terriers he bred. Seems this was what was expected back then. Seemed an awful thing to do.
Thank goodness times have changed! Although lambs still have their tails docked.
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 15, 2008 10:32 AM
Dogs obviously use their tails as some form of expression, so what a cruel thing to do to deny them that.
I have found the "religion" debate interesting, even though it may be boring to others (but then again there are many things on here that get discussed that are boring to me and I just merrily skip through those posts...). I have found from experience, though, that no amount of debate on the subject will ever change another person's mind and turn a "non believer" into a "believer" and vice versa.
Only personal experience makes a difference (ie Pisces' story below - and btw, thanks for sharing that, Pisces, I really enjoyed reading it and understood totally where you were coming from).
Posted by: malsie at August 15, 2008 10:15 AM
Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 14, 2008 9:16 PM
Thank you for sharing your experiences Pisces. I felt the JOY when reading it. I love what you wrote here...
"when somebody talks about God or the Lord Jesus in disrespectful way, I feel pain in my soul - but I know, people talk like that because they do not know...faith has no real worth unless it is based on experience, on KNOWING as opposed to believeing only."
I feel pain in my soul also.
Which is WHY I answered this " I am not getting into a religious debate here".... because I KNOW what happens when we open up this can of worms...lol..and yes I could see it was going to take us WAY off topic. And yes I DO feel a pain in my soul.
Starry, do you think that a belief in God or the New Age equivalent 'the Universe' is needed for us to be good?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 12, 2008 12:14 PM
I am not getting into a religious debate on here. I am a Catholic and try my best, to follow the basics of my religion. But in saying that, I also follow the basic principles of Buddhism, although to me, The Five Precepts are a lot harder to adhere to, than the 10 Commandments...lol.
Posted by: starryeyez at August 12, 2008 2:55 PM
I thank everybodies differing opinions on the subject (even yours, my dear friend Marcus, who I do consider an online friend) but can we please put this to rest?
Posted by: starryeyez at August 15, 2008 10:12 AM
Cocker Spaniels are another breed that have traditionally have their tails removed.
I am so glad my little girl hasn't had hers done. Whilst it does need brushing weekly and like the rest of her trimming from time to time, it is a lovely tail and always wagging too.
It is barbaric removing them.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 9:03 AM
Historically docking (in some breeds) was carried out for various reasons that are no longer valid today. Examples of this are for hunting dogs - the prey can't grab the ears or tail to use against the dog and dog fighting - for the same reason. Both, in my mind, deplorable practices. It is legal to dock tails in other states and show them in Victoria, but is still frowned upon. Thank goodness. What is more rewarding than a wagging tail?
Posted by: willow29 at August 15, 2008 9:02 AM
iaminperth at August 14, 2008 10:09 PM
I actually agree with most of what you have said about religion, especially the public faces of it.
But isn't that almost an exact reflection of how most of society is? (again I speak generally)
We have become and also guided towards being super consumers and looking after ourselves, what can I get sort of attitude more than ever.
Don't believe me? Ask the service clubs how their membership is going.
In the last year the Country Women's association have closed in my little town due to dwindiling numbers and being so over regulated that what little money they made was being swallowed up by room rentals and law compliances.
The modern world has great convenience, but we have been taught to want and take so much that we are loosing the things that matter.
I don't mean people are becomming "bad" just a little self centered, or so busy in the must consume world (work, spend, work, spend cycle) that family life and time spent actually with other people, the simple things that give life real meaning have suffered.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 8:56 AM
laughsandtalks at August 14, 2008 11:52 PM
Marcus you started the religious/beliefs discussion when you questioned Starry's beliefs
I then asked you to offer a viable alternative rather than blindly picking on others beliefs.
Cheers
Stuart
starryeyez August 12, 2008 8:05 AM
Starry, do you think that a belief in God or the New Age equivalent 'the Universe' is needed for us to be good?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 12, 2008 12:14 PM
Posted by: creativestuart at August 15, 2008 8:44 AM
Hi Marcus, Yes, Shepherds just adore their owners. Originally being sheep dogs he would have simply stayed with the herd. Such a shame the breed is so misunderstood at times. She gsd is a care dog/blind dog and everything else dog in Europe. They are also now being used instead of the St. Bernard in rescues after being found to travel further and be stronger and also much more persistent in their task. They are also police dogs as most people see them and are highly trained to do this task which they love, again totally pleasing their owners. Docking of tails, I believe is now illegal as it was only ever done for cosmetic reasons and deemed to be cruelty, which I tend to believe it is. Chopping off a piece of a body because someone believes it looks better is so offensively cruel perpetuated again my human beings.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 15, 2008 8:14 AM
Posted by: iaminperth at August 14, 2008 10:48 PM
yep i agree iaminperth, its easy enough to sort out at the first meeting whos paying for what. stay long enough for 2 drinks/coffees and pay for a round each.
anyone who then insists on paying can do so, but that is certainly not my intention going in.
Posted by: kisskat at August 15, 2008 8:03 AM
piscesgirl56 at August 14, 2008 9:16 PM
For what it's worth I agree Pisces. It's difficult to see the logic in a blog that started out to discuss "Does time really tell" and got highjacked by this diatribe about religion; nor to see the justification for the invective. If people want to have a "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" style blog on religion it wouldn't hurt them to at least do some homework and get it right. In fact, it would be preferable to do it in a dedicated blog, so that those who want to stay on topic can.
As one who walked away from half a lifetime of 'church' and its enculturated abuse, I have no illusions about the shortcomings of religion; but this discussion has turned into an exercise in invective. Earlier in the blog there were assertions about the historicity vs mythology of Jesus Christ, comparisons of various religions and their most well-known figures, and assertions about the acts of the various religions throughout history.
Like you Pisces I generally keep my religious views to myself and don't proselytise. But this blog has really gone over the top. A diversity of views is good for a society or a small group of bloggers, but fair dinkum Marcus, you really aught to do some homework son.
Argue your opinion as much as you like, but at least find a library and do some reading in Religious History 101 and leave assertions out of it. As you've particularly taken aim at the Christian religion you might start with the likes of Josephus et al and then move on to the other major religions. You might also put some effort into reading at least some basic religious archaeology texts. Then when you have a better command of valid literature you'll be rather better equipped and informed to argue your view which, by then, may well have changed.
It was said earlier in this blog that the reason that intelligent people believe dumb things (or words to that effect) is that they are more skilled at defending their belief. Well, they don't get skilled by grandstanding but by doing their homework. I've worked in the banking and construction industries, and now in education research; I have a post-graduate education, but I'm still just a working class boy who got some breaks over time and made the effort to make the most of them - I did my homework. And I maintain an "experience based" faith in the God of the Bible. It doesn't matter whether we agree or not, but it does matter whether the discussion is informed and whether it is motivated by a desire to tear down or build up. So far it's been mostly invective interspersed with some efforts to lift it.
If Marcus et al want to sink the boot into others' belief systems my challenge to them is to either do their homework and at least get the basic facts straight (instead of being armchair experts), or let those who've been trying to discuss the original topic of the blog get back to it.
Don't know if I've helped your cause or not Pisces, but at least you're not "a voice crying in the wilderness" (for what it's worth).
Posted by: dadofdave at August 15, 2008 12:43 AM
Pooches
I thought of you yesterday when I heard about the bloke that fell headfirst into a pile hole trying to rescue his little mut. He died, the dog survived. On the newspaper vid they showed him being wheeled away under a shroud, the hole and about 20 seconds of the dog doing doggy things, all in a 27 second take. There was another story about a shepherd that sat beside it's master for 6 weeks after he suicided in the middle of nowhere. Last night while out I saw a guy walking 2 of a breed I didn't recognise (like a small ridgey?, maybe more Wiemeraner sp?) in Brunswick St. Both were young dogs and had their tails docked which I understand to be illegal in Victoria.
I think the thing that started the religious flavor of this thread was a creativestuart comment and his concern not with finding a missus but the lowering moral standards of the young due to non church attendance.. Anyway the girls have given up on Stu and now the drone is getting the attention.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 14, 2008 11:52 PM
yeah, "No soup for you !!!"
Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 14, 2008 11:36 PM
It is interesting about how differently people think about gender roles when it comes about paying for the expenses of a date. Personally I like equality in relationships and to be honest, I feel akward when the man pays for everything. It does not feel right somehow - why should a man be financially affected just because he is a man? In fact, having all these unsuccessful dates might cost men a fortune, while us women just enjoy the experiences...these rules are part of social norms, I understand, still they do not feel right. My way of feeling less guilty: I never go out for a meal with a person I do not know, I prefer just a plain coffee time. Later on if the relationship would develop into something more than a friendhsip, I believe any man would accept that I like to pay for my own expenses... I find it amusing how we all have different ideas about these cultural norms...
Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 14, 2008 11:26 PM
although, you'd think, logically, I would have returned, ( maybe I need some advice on my profile )
Posted by: hobart212hal2000 at August 14, 2008 11:16 PM
Willow, it's an absolute joke isn't it. All these rules and regulations, who pays for a cup of coffee who doesn't. I can't believe how controlling some people are. I mean if you can't afford a cup of coffee there's really not a lot of hope left for you. I just can't believe that people are so petty and spend their time even thinking aobut it. Frankly if the person I was with was sitting there brooding over a couple of dollars I would be out of there so quickly so bored and thankfully never meet them again.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 14, 2008 10:48 PM
no, I haven't returned, I just forgot my hat, oh, there it is
Posted by: hobart212hal2000 at August 14, 2008 10:46 PM
LOL Perth, does it matter? Its not even supposed to be a blog on religion, its supposed to be how long it takes to form a "connection" with someone. We all wander off and do our own thing and someone reminds us again what the topic is.
Maybe we can get a trapdoor and when our date doesnt match our instant attraction, we press a button and whooosh, there he/she goes.... NEXT! Of course that's before the coffee gets ordered so there's no need to argue who is going to pay :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 10:30 PM
Marcus, Id say many people who have positive outlooks enjoy good mental health :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 10:20 PM
Come on Marcus, Say something. Everyone is trying to present themselves as so pure and self righteous here and it's simply not true and not any kind of reality. We all stuff up at times and quite often simply because we are human and we can allow ourselves to make mistakes at times. This self righteous puritanical view of a lot of people on her is just rubbish, total rubbish.,
Posted by: iaminperth at August 14, 2008 10:18 PM
I personally don't think that religion has anything to do with a belief in god or anyone else. Religion is based on power by secular groups nothing else and were borne out of greed and war. Today that people can kill, rape and molest is a sign of decay of religion. Religion today is based on greed, nothing else, simply and purely greed and has nothing to do with the teachings in the bible or anywhere else for that matter. I tend to believe that any religion, and the they all do, covers the abuse of children or anyone else for their own gain is perverted and sick. Religion today is capitalistic and has nothing to do with the bible or anything else. And if there is an imaginary person sitting in the sky overlooking it all he/she must be totally appalled.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 14, 2008 10:09 PM
Piscesgirl, thank you for sharing your experience. Whatever works for an individual for his/her betterment and well being is always a good thing.
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 9:45 PM
I am reading all these comments for and against religion and I feel I cannot stay silent. My background: I was raised as an atheist, my parents ensured me there was no God and they told me only uneducated and stupid people believed in God...I learned to hate religious people...I was 33 when all possible disasters hit me and my family. I was emotinally crushed, I was physically ill, depressed, negative, and without motivation to live...then one day a stranger stopped me in the streets and told me this (still remember the words) " God loves you...He wants to build you up, listen to His call.." Those words hit me at that time, normally this kind of talk would have made me angry...it felt good to hear that 'somebody' loved me and cared for me...I was not sure who He was, so that night I went to the garden and I lifted my face to the stars and said" God, if you exist, you sure can show me who you are and reveal yourself to me...YOU LEAD ME - if you exist I do not need anyone to teach me..." That was the start of my completely new life style: the changes within me were spiritual, gradual, I had to do nothing special, I have just changed from inside - I do not know how...I have never been depressed since, all my health problems stopped, I became a positive, hopeful, joyful person...there were some serious challenges in my life after that as well, by my strong faith helped me through everything with positive attitude and hope...I was active in different churches, but I was dissapointed to learn that most judgment and negativity was actually in church congregations...people were fighting for 'positions' (power), they believed they were the 'good' ones and non believers were the bad ones...my faith is on spirirual level, EXPERIENCE based, which was not built on my parents' believes or others believes, it's uniquely mine and is the main source of my inner strength, sense of self worth, and genuine love for people...my faith manifests through my life style - I do not 'preach' to people about God, do not try to convert anybody, and I do NOT want a partner who is active in church...whenever I am stressed, anxious or confused - I listen to some special worship songs which lift me up effortlessly...for ME Jesus is a reality, He is alive: He is not a silly trouble maker, he is not in the heavens, He is a POSITIVE, powerful spiritual force deep WITHIN me, not outside me...and I believe it is very wrong saying God is not a reality because of the bad things people have done in His name: we forget the people factor here, we forget that God would not be a loving force if He would control human behavior...good or bad behavior is a result of HUMAN CHOICES - FREE WILL , and has nothing to do with God...I met more positive people among non believers than among believers, more fake people in church than outside church...it does not prove anything about God it tells more about human nature. It is telling me that God is a living positive spiritual force in human suol - some people are sensitive to His 'voice' (these people are naturally positive, loving and non judgemental) others have successfully supressed this inner 'voice' (they are the negative forces in this world regardless on their religion)...I had some extraordinary spiritual inner experiences during times of big emotional trials which I can never really explain to anybody : i never knew the meaning of the word "JOY" until I experienced it in the middle of biggest trauma of my life - when my young son had a serious sporting accident...ever since than, when somebody talks about God or the Lord Jesus in disrespectful way, I feel pain in my soul - but I know, people talk like that because they do not know...faith has no real worth unless it is based on experience, on KNOWING as opposed to believeing only...normally I would not get into any discussion about God, few people around me actually know that my faith is my rock. This time I felt I had to speak up - even if I get 'crucified' for that...some people out there might start to think differently about God, maybe they will recognise that there might be more to our humanity than just our bodies and things that can be scientifically proven...
Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 14, 2008 9:16 PM
missrule at August 14, 2008 6:29 PM
Contact me off line.Stuff is not going through. I have a plethora of information on the topic.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 14, 2008 8:49 PM
I think there has to been an attraction from the word go when you meet: either it be physcial or mental as one or the other is good, if there's both then it's GREAT. I like to give people a fair chance but if there is neither of these things wow then you have to give people another chance to see.... Everybody knows what they like physically but it there's no connection mentally at all then there's not point flogging a dead horse.
Posted by: likes2havfun at August 14, 2008 7:42 PM
Waternymph, Your spot on !!!!!!!!!
Posted by: outbackdrifter at August 14, 2008 7:33 PM
Spanky - it could go on the music blog too. Goodnight :)
I think you just have to look at Australia's hundreds of thousands of volunteers to see what a good bunch we all are.
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 7:13 PM
Kisskat - ROFL!!!
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 7:01 PM
Nice one kisskat :D
Posted by: missrule at August 14, 2008 6:53 PM
Noty sure how we got to be discussing religion....
(What would you all do differently if you knew 100% there was a God?
Why would you behave differently ?
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 11:12 AM )
I would behave just as I do still as no one can make me believe in God .. despite being raised by a Methodist Mother and looking with an open mind ar various forms of belief over the years.
I see more wars wrought in the name of God than for any other reason, more persecutions and punishment done and human sacrifice made in the name of religion! No one can convince me that any of it is for the betterment of mankind!
Posted by: waternymph47 at August 14, 2008 6:29 PM
There have been a lot of studies to correlate religiosity with doing good. In the US the most religious of the states have the highest rates of serious crimes Texas leads the way.
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 14, 2008 4:27 PM
Not doubting the weirdness of Texans for a minute, Marcus - but can you please post a link to any of these studies? I'd be interested to see it/them.
Posted by: missrule at August 14, 2008 6:29 PM
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 1:57 PM I'm just waiting for it to break out into lord of the dance.....then you'll get a LOL for sure......... Lord of the flies...... I have been thinking that for months, on and off, just not game to say it....... Good for you Willow (but the Movie Buffs is a different Blog, albeit a quiet one at the moment)....... Have a great night
Posted by: spanky668 at August 14, 2008 6:27 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 14, 2008 2:53 PM One problem with Jesus that needs to be overcome is that it is likely he is hypothetical. There is no good evidence for him at all,... And FFS "our sins"; what sins? Grow up. That is just ridiculous guilt trip garbage pumped into young brains.
At it again, Mr Omniscient? Have you never committed a sin (she asks rhetorically)? Taken on their own, the nastinesses I've seen you direct against contributors to this board would be enough to keep a priest in the confession box (or whatever it's called) for a year.
Probably in a couple of thousand years there will be no record whatsoever that you ever existed, so Jesus has one up on you there at least.
Willow29, that is precisely the choice the Good Samaritan had to make - he was very lucky in that it wasn't a trap, and so were you. So what would you do another time, faced with the same kind of dilemma? I have to admit that in your place I would probably not have stopped at all.
Posted by: missrule at August 14, 2008 6:19 PM
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 4:52 PM
willow maybe you witnessed a miracle.....
Posted by: kisskat at August 14, 2008 6:01 PM
I think that fear has a lot more to do with not helping, nowadays than not caring.
The other day, racing to an appointment, I had to cross a very wide median strip. There was a toilet block there with a very dodgy reputation and an indigenous man in a wheelchair called out to me. I was alone and though my first impulse was to stop but what did I do? Pretended not to hear!. Seconds went by and he called again and I thought what a horrible person I was and how racist not to help.... So when he called again, I stopped.
His wheelchair was stuck on the curb and he needed help getting on the path. Wow, did I feel guilty! I got the chair unstuck and back onto the path and went to my meeting.
An hour later I drove past the courthouse nearby. The man was standing on the pavement, chair empty.......
Does this story have a moral? probably not :)
But when I volunteered for St John Ambulance, you always had to make sure you weren't the next victim.
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 4:52 PM
"Though to be fair, if you were late for a class, would your professor ever accept, "I had to stop and help a wounded traveler" as an excuse?"
If I was late for a class, my professor would ask what animal I'd rescued today. And the proof was usually in my bag or stuffed up my jumper.
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 4:42 PM
There have been a lot of studies to correlate religiosity with doing good.
In the US the most religious of the states have the highest rates of serious crimes Texas leads the way.
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 14, 2008 4:27 PM
Discussion on religion usually causes some heat so may I add my accelerant to the fire.
"Jesus Christ was a Jewish, hill-billy, trouble maker that the Romans had the good sense to execute."
Before you go off at me, think about it. There is only one part of that statement that is arguable. And please dont say what my dearest mother said. Jesus was not a Catholic.
Answer will be posted tomorrow.
rgds grego
Posted by: grego7 at August 14, 2008 3:55 PM
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 14, 2008 2:37 PM
"The Good Samaritan Experiment (1973)
The Biblical story of the Good Samaritan, if you hadn't heard, is about a passing Samaritan helping an injured man in need, while other, self-righteous types walk right on by. Psychologists John Darley and C. Daniel Batson wanted to test if religion has any effect on helpful behavior.
Their subjects were a group of seminary students. Half of the students were given the story of the Good Samaritan and asked to perform a sermon about it in another building. The other half were told to give a sermon about job opportunities in a seminary.
As an extra twist, subjects were given different times that they had to deliver the sermon so that some would be in a hurry and others not.
Then, on the way to the building, subjects would pass a person slumped in an alleyway, who looked to be in need of help. We like to think Darley and Batson beat the crap out of some random dude to make it more realistic, but sources say otherwise.
The result:
The people who had been studying the Good Samaritan story did not stop any more often than the ones preparing for a speech on job opportunities. The factor that really seemed to make a difference was how much of a hurry the students were in.
In fact, if pressed for time, only 10 percent would stop to give any aid, even when they were on their way to give a sermon about how awesome it is for people to stop and give aid.
---------------------
Posted by: waterbombe at August 14, 2008 2:43 PM
Though to be fair, if you were late for a class, would your professor ever accept, "I had to stop and help a wounded traveler" as an excuse?
Probably not unless you could produce the guy's blood-stained shirt as evidence.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 3:21 PM
creativestuart at August 13, 2008 10:17 PM
I don't think you get it Stuart. The moral sense we have existed well before religion.
Religion has superimposed itself and appropriated and distorted many aspects of that sense. What we need already exists in the form of secular democracy and works well if we remove the religion. Religion is a potent silencer of rational calculation. It teaches children that unquestioned faith is a virtue. You don't have to make the case for what you believe (and your woolly mutterings on lowering of standards, reinforcing 'valuse' without any definition of what you mean, let alone any evidence or argument to back your assertion, are typical).
If someone like you announces that it is part of his FAITH, the rest of society, whether of the same faith, another, or none is obliged by ingrained custom, to 'respect' it
without question, until it manifests in a horrible massacre like Bali or the WTC.
There is a great chorus of disowning by various unelected community and faith leaders and condemnation on the perversion of faith. So how can there be a perversion of faith, if faith lacking objective justification doesn't have any demonstrable standard to pervert?
missrule at August 13, 2008 8:46 PM
One problem with Jesus that needs to be overcome is that it is likely he is hypothetical.
There is no good evidence for him at all, just ipse dixit writings, the oldest decades after his death purporting his messianism. And FFS "our sins"; what sins? Grow up. That is just ridiculous guilt trip garbage pumped into young brains.
acquiesce at August 13, 2008 10:07 PM
"Spiritualism, on the other hand, is recognising everything consists of energy that can be harnassed through positive thought and affirmation."
Can you show me one of these positive-thought energy harnesses? We are making a new engine wiring harness for a race car at the moment and might learn some new techniques.
armorall at August 13, 2008 8:34 PM. Disconnect away if you read things you don't like. I thought I heard you quacking about broadmindedness on one of the other topics?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 14, 2008 2:53 PM
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 1:57 PM
thanks willow, correct, rings was a typo, i meant "Lord of the Flies"
Posted by: kisskat at August 14, 2008 2:50 PM
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 11:08 AM
ERAL, those experiments were conducted in simulations, not in real life, and the findings are questioned these days because of that. Would people behave the same in real life? Probably not, but the thing is, you don't know.
People doing what they did in the Holocaust is not as simple as you say....in many societies people go along with dreadful things, not through conformity, but because they fear that the violence will be experienced by them and their families. The Communist regimes operated this way, so did the Nazis...if you questioned them, you and your family went to the gulag or the camp. So you kept quiet through dread, not through conformity.
Lastly, we only need the law to deal with a minority of people... if there were no laws it would still be a minority that would kill and rape ... even though what they do in situations like Hurricane Katrina gets a lot of press exposure, there are still very few people who do it. The problem though is that one person can kill hundreds, and so we need a legal system so that we are all protected from the relatively few really destructive people.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 14, 2008 2:43 PM
My opinion -
Again, our sense or right and wrong is derived from our MORALS. Whether these are grounded in religious belief or evolution is the question we are debating. Any religion is based on MYTH. The means by which society WAS regulated until LAWS were established. Stuart, you are ignoring the fact that both WB (and orginally Marcus) have stated that the ALTERNATIVE to a belief system is that based on EVOLUTION. Here, the guidance is not based on prescriptive principals but on VALUES. Sure Marcus can find me some quotes to enforce this. ERAL, WB is not being niave. You said, "Conformity is what drives most sociological behaviour" and hence "The Good Samaritan Experiment (1973) where 90% failed to help a victim if they were in a hurry". Does not this illustrate WB point. That is, "You behave well as a child because you have been taught to through care and love. By the time you get to adolescence and realise there are...alternative man-made (yes) belief systems...you are well-disposed towards other people and begin to rationally select principles that suit you AND do good for others". As such, FAMILY is the basis for this conditioning. Rather than expect religious institutions to provide guidance, which incidently has always been hypocritical, the onus should be placed on the family, which GOVERNMENTS should proactively support and encourage no matter what form they take.
Now i hope i have not stepped on anyone's toes (painted or otherwise). Oops, blog confusion perhaps?
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 14, 2008 2:37 PM
troy @ 12.39 pm - yes, the seemingly arbitrary nature of it all is a bit mind boggling...amazing you didn't give up completely!
I rather like the idea of ceasing to exist in a physical sense on reaching enlightenment, in a Buddhist belief type way. Just imagine talking to someone and in the next instant, whoosh, you're beamed up somewhere else as you've finally cracked it and reached that stage... I won't be holding my breath on achieving it in the immediate future, though! Meanwhile the blogs are a great way to test one's own level equanimity.... - who'd have thought they'd have so many uses? :)
Posted by: malsie at August 14, 2008 2:34 PM
Kisskat - Lord of the Flies?
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 1:57 PM
Troy, I think a better test of "faith" would be to convince someone that they WON'T go splat if they jumped off a building :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 1:30 PM
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 11:48 AM re stanford prison experiment:
i watched a documentary on this experiment and was amazed to see how the behaviour of the "guards" changed so quickly to one of aggression and humiliation, and the "prisoners" were left feeling they were non entities as they were stripped (sometimes literally) of everything, their name, their clothes etc, and were just a number.
frightening to see how human behaviour appears to be so easily influenced, not unlike in "The Lord of the Rings".
even the fiancee of the lead psychologist was dismayed at her partner's actions, in that he didnt stop what was happening in the interests of his study. apparently she had to rethink her betrothal to someone who would operate in this way & be so seemingly ignorant of & uncaring about human suffering.
Posted by: kisskat at August 14, 2008 1:14 PM
Posted by: creativestuart at August 14, 2008 10:37 AM
Stu, I don't have to experience jumping off a building and hitting the concrete to know I'll go 'splat'! If someone wants me to believe, however, in an ultimate being who created the universe and everything in it they had better come up with some evidence that doesn't involve only 'faith'.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at August 14, 2008 12:46 PM
Posted by: malsie at August 14, 2008 11:16 AM
Yeah malsie, but every post (8) in four days. Quite bizarre I thought especially given many of the posts that found there way onto the blog. Oh well.
Posted by: troyohboy at August 14, 2008 12:39 PM
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 11:12 AM
Absolutely ERAL. Were there actually a God, (spare me those who say this spirit has visited before as there exists no proof only faith...uh huh), then ipso facto there is a heaven and hell, we'd all jump through hoops to get to heaven.....out of fear of going to hell. That's the whole premise of religion, excepting Buddism where, if we get good enough, we cease to exist!
I also agree with you on the holocaust.....fascinating for those interested in researching it.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at August 14, 2008 12:36 PM
willow29 at August 14, 2008 11:44 AM
Willow - thanks (?)
Conformity is what drives most sociological behavior, and not 'values'.
Conditioning.
Don't get me wrong, most murderers etc feel remorse afterwards; they know that they are 'guilty'; but none were ever innocent to start with !
The dilemma (imao) isn't whether we are good or bad. The record of human history shows we are ALL 'sinners'; but for me the eternal question really is one of FORGIVENESS.
Can we forgive others their sin, and them ours, or do we want them to be punished ?
Which acts/crimes/sins do we believe should attract punishment, (or forgiveness) and if so, of what type and severity?
Where we draw the line for that is what determines our own particular 'nature'.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 12:34 PM
I can't say I totally agree with you, ERAL. Sure, its true for SOME people, perhaps even MANY people, but to suggest that MOST people dont act out of goodness, but rather out of fear of punishment is overly pessimistic.
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 11:52 AM
Correction:
The Milgram Experiment (1961) was 66% killed the 'other'.
further studies-
The Good Samaritan Experiment (1973) where 90% failed to help a victim if they were in a hurry.
Bystander Apathy Experiment (1968) again 69% failed to help in a group situation.
The Stanford Prison Experiment (1971)
had to be stopped after only 6 days after the guards lost it on day 2, and later the humiliate prisoners rioted ! (remember Abu Ghraib ?)
The Asch Conformity Experiment (1953)-
32% knowingly gave false information or answers, if others around them did too.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 11:48 AM
Welcome back, ERAL
Posted by: willow29 at August 14, 2008 11:44 AM
troy, yes, I liked your little typo - an interesting little insight into your mind :)
I too had a post disallowed this morning and for the life of me have no idea why - it wasn't in the slightest bit offensive, I thought....
Posted by: malsie at August 14, 2008 11:16 AM
What would you all do differently if you knew 100% there was a God?
Why would you behave differently ?
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 11:12 AM
Posted by: waterbombe at August 13, 2008 10:47 PM
Naive.
Reality:
Repeated university psychological testing (MILGRAM )has shown that 8/10 people would incrementally torture, even kill another human being by pressing a button that would electrocute them, if assertively instructed to so ! ( even a puppy that they could hear whimpering over a loudspeaker)
Just ask any Jew that survived the Holocaust what civilized humans are capable of doing to another.
Fear of punishment is what makes most people behave considerately, not a innate goodness.
Otherwise we wouldn't need the LAW.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at August 14, 2008 11:08 AM
Posted by: troyohboy at August 14, 2008 10:00 AM
Haha, wouldn't you know it, first post I didn't proof read and had a shocker although the 'freudian' profits, instead of prophets is somewhat appropriate. My excuse must be that, after 4 days and 8 posts, all of which the moderator put the kybosh on, I didn't really expect this one to get up either.
What do you think of that kurli, you thought it was only you and other women it happened to :-)
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at August 14, 2008 10:43 AM
Troy,
I am not arguing purity of religion or even if they have all the answers.
Merely that our current moral systems are all based upon a belief system in one form or another.
Also
The religions each profess that God has payed us many visits.
Be they as old as Aboriginal Dreamtime or as young as the Bahai Faith
Do you need to actually experience every element of life to believe it exists?
Posted by: creativestuart at August 14, 2008 10:37 AM
Posted by: waterbombe at August 14, 2008 8:06 AM
WB, my intermediate english master had a particular penchant for telling us that you cannot "centre around" something but must "centre on". Revolve around perhaps although beliefs are better centred than revolving. VBG.
rgds grego
Posted by: grego7 at August 14, 2008 10:24 AM
Posted by: creativestuart at August 14, 2008 9:08 AM
You obviously have not studied the history of religeon/s, it's real motivations, tactics and lust for power. Do you really believe mankind had no morals prior to the 'alleged' profits? Confucius had more relevence than Budda of Jesus. Stu, when God pays me/us a call I'll believe in him.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at August 14, 2008 10:00 AM
The original principles and indeed most societies as we now live it are like it or not, psitive or negative based upon some form of belief system.
Be that Dreamtime for the Aboriginies, Islam for much of the middle east, Judasisim for Israel, or Christian for the "western world" etc....
My question is more, do we now throw a belief system away, just because some have chosen to abuse it?
Has throwing it away a little as we as a society have done, contributed to the problems we have with things?
Do we throw away a belief system now it has put principals in place, or as the religions profess, do we need them to teach, remind and guide us too keep on a moral path? Indeed that is the basis of religion once a belief has been established.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 14, 2008 9:08 AM
there's nothing to stop you posting something really interesting , exoticorigin.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 14, 2008 8:51 AM
Hi Maetrac.....I'm praying and kneeling, wished these Religion issues will sorted out soon, but I doubt, the discussion keeps ongoing since the blogs created... nothing change and no winners still.....
Posted by: exoticorigin at August 14, 2008 8:26 AM
Stu, as I see it your diffiulty is that you are looking for original "principles" .... and there aren't any. You don't need them. You behave well as a child because you have been taught to through care and love. By the time you get to adolescence and relise there are a bunch of alternative man-made (yes) belief systems around, that have different principles, you are well-disposed towards other people and begin to rationally select principles that suit you AND do good for others. It's only then that principles become relevant. My belief system centers around equality and democracy, that does it for me, I don't need a religion. Democracy has plenty of principles if you want to go into it. So there is an answer to your question..there aren't any "original" principles. We select them ourselves at an age when we begin using reason to govern our actions. You got your principles handed to you at birth, but that doesn't mean you needed them then....you would have found them anyway later on, when you were a teenager.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 14, 2008 8:06 AM
No one has yet offered an answer to the question of where will the values originated, come from, if not the original principals put forward by the prophets if you like, of each different religion, even Buddisim has Budda
We could actually go on with this debate for ever...... It is almost a chicken and egg question.
My actual point of view is to question my beliefs and what I have been taught as "the truth" especially with a few of the events in the last 9 years of my life. Whilst I do believe in God I seriously question the religions rhetoric and lack of positive action.
"The Man who Sued God" puts a nice spin on how man (in that case insurance companies) abuse the belief in God.
However my main point throuout was, offer something useful Marcus, debating is about putting accross an oposite point ov view, not bashing others or their points of view!
Posted by: creativestuart at August 14, 2008 7:45 AM
aqueousdb ~ 10.07PM. Actually Spiritualism is the communion between those departed (the dead) and those on the earth plane. Usually through the help of a 'medium.' It is also the name given to the system of doctrines and practices founded on this.
Spiritualism has been a recogized "Religion" in Australia for approx 25 years now I believe from memory. Thus giving people choice in a belief and the allowing of those in "Minister" positions within the movement to visit the ill and administer healing and comfort to those in need.
I do agree with your thoughts on energy and the belief that it can be harnessed. But take exception to it coming under that title.
Verbose by some of the writers? That's a bit tough. We each explain, write how it comes "for us." Maybe we are all not so eloquent. But so what? We are who we are and I for enjoy the things that flow from people in a genuine way.
Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at August 14, 2008 7:32 AM
Posted by: drone at August 13, 2008 8:05 PM
Nice try at changing the subject drone.
Religion, you're either for it, against it or just indifferent, but this has to be the most boring subject so far.
Lets get back to gender bashing!!!!
Helloooooo. Where has everyone gone...... probably onto the new blog.
Posted by: maestrac at August 14, 2008 12:21 AM
the buddhist beliefs are based on enlightenment not on imaginary friends in the sky.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 14, 2008 12:04 AM
If it is secular what is the start point? Who sets the standards? Why them? What are the standards?Posted by: creativestuart at August 13, 2008 10:17 PM
Stu, most people in the world are good to others, whether or not they have a religion. I think that's the striking thing about humans, that there are very few bad apples. We do really notice the bad actions of a few, but there are not that many evil people, given the billions of people on earth . I think that the standards that set this good behaviour start in the family. They are set through the love and care the adults give to the children ....someone loved and looked after learns to do that for others, especially if this is modelled for them at such a young age when their brain is a 'sponge'. They don't necesarily mop up the behaviours when they are little tykes, but they do absorb the inclination to be kind, nurturing, and not to do harm. (Of course none of this applies to teenagers, all of whom should be locked up until they are 25, ha ha). Imho, that's why nearly everyone behaves well, because they learned to care by being cared for. So I think that most of this 'good' behaviour isn't explicitly taught through questions and answers, it is demonstrated through the love and kindness that the parents show the child, which sets an inclination or disposition to do good, (rather than instil a set of rules about right and wrong, which is completely different). You can be a good person if you have been loved and cared for, without any religious education or influence whatsoever. But it is fairly rare for a person who has been neglected and abused since birth to grow up kind, generous and considerate of others. (It does happen, but usually its found that those resilient individuals have had one significant carer in their lives at some stage...a teacher, a neighbour...in other words, they were not completely uncared for. ) This is how the family, not religion, creates a person who does good rather than evil.
Sorry for all the words, but this is deep stuff.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 13, 2008 10:47 PM
Marcus
I agree that some have reinterpreted religious beliefs and teachings for their own ends, just as corrupt law enforcement have also over time used their position for ill gain.
However that is not the point here at all, as pointed out by others below.
It has been put forward that this existing moral compus you speak of has come from, been defned by and guided by teachings of a belief system in God, his earthly representatives such as Moses, Jesus, etc, Buddah, dreaming (Aborigines) etc (read some higher being).
It has also been offered that there is a lowering of standards as people have drifted from these belief structures.
You still haven't offered any alternative for teaching and reinforcing valuse and being "good" going forward to those who have yet to come.
Because it is certainly taught behaviour and the child who is told that is wrong will almost certainly say why???....
If it is secular what is the start point? Who sets the standards? Why them? What are the standards?
Posted by: creativestuart at August 13, 2008 10:17 PM
okay, I thought a certain 'she' in these blogs had in recent weeks been keen for me to participate in these blogs, but I can see from todays 'lack of posts' from 'her' (I havent checked all the blogs) that I was mistaken, so you can blame her for this being my last post ( I'll still keep reading the blogs though )
Posted by: hobart212hal2000 at August 13, 2008 10:10 PM
This debate needs clarification.
Our integrity is derived from our morals. Whether these are entrenched from evolution as Marcus has stated or religious belief as Stuart has stated is an individual's decision.
Believing, as Jen alluded to, may stem from organised religion such as Christianity or Buddism or something more spiritual such as the universe.
"Belief based on faith concludes that argument is useless and resorts to force either in the form of persecution or by stunting and distorting the minds of the young whenever [it] has the power to control their education." Throughout the ages organised religion has sought this form of control and is the source of fanatacism.
Although 'The Secret' subscribes to the power of the universe it's prescriptive nature is no better than organised religion.
Spiritualism, on the other hand, is recognising everything consists of energy that can be harnassed through positive thought and affirmation. This is not for the feeble minded but for the enlightened individual who recognises negativity and fear can pervade everyday life.
Now i think i have summarised the arguments clearly and concisely rather than the verbose preceeding posts but am not intending to offend anyone.
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 13, 2008 10:07 PM
Posted by: hobart212hal2000 at August 13, 2008 9:49 PM
No offence is taken to the secret language between you and another however there is more than one blogger on this site.
Don't head further out to sea than you are now. You are amongst good company so get cracking and start typing.
Peace out xx
Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 13, 2008 10:03 PM
Oi! Watch it with the 'Hitler' remarks... :)
Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 13, 2008 9:53 PM
5000 years only because men won't ask directions ,missrule
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 13, 2008 9:08 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 13, 2008 8:06 PM Respecting diversity, allowing a free and equal existence for all, without prejudice and judgement, is what does me no harm ....... to write off entire religions, cultures or belief structures based on the actions of a few fringe elements is tantamount to dismissing Austrians because of Hitler......... absurd, and using the same logic he did.... villify with misinformation.... blame the "evils" on a group so that "someone" can be punished........... and you say "I think already it has distorted your faculties of reason and observation quite noticeably"..... Tut Tut, I am very reasonable and observant ..... I am not reactionary and am measured in my responses...... this is not a bad thing... and is quite different to what you suggest of me Marcus....... as always, just my thoughts.... take them or leave them.....
Posted by: spanky668 at August 13, 2008 8:46 PM
The Old Testament is a handbook for survival of a desert tribe 5,000 years ago. That desert tribe is still going strong today and I don't think that modern Jews preach too much in the way of murder or cruelty (leaving aside the secular leaders of Israel, and even if you include them, many would say they are aggressive only in self-defence because they have learned that passivity led to the gas ovens).
The New Testament covers the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. He preached tolerance, love and forgiveness and he went willingly to his death so that we could be forgiven our sins. His message has been wilfully misinterpreted over the millennia by those with their own axe to grind, but that's not his fault!
I don't know much about Islam but I have heard it said that the fundamentalist nutcases also misinterpret the Koran to their own ends (literally in some cases ... sorry!). Certainly the conflict in Northern Ireland had little to do with religion and far more with power and control - in many cases of illegal and immoral activities.
To paraphrase Hitler, if religion hadn't existed, evil men would have had to invent it ;)
Posted by: missrule at August 13, 2008 8:46 PM
Posted by: exoticorigin at August 13, 2008 2:03 PM
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 13, 2008 1:38 PM
You are now in my fav links!
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 13, 2008 8:06 PM
Seriously my dear good friend I think I need to send you the mental health happiness van very very soon / the more I read your views the more I want to disconnect my laptop from the ugliness within!
Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 13, 2008 8:34 PM
Hey Stuart ~ Just noticed the new shots. I see you have been re-vamping your profile. Hopefully things on the up-and-up.
So seems you like Retro. Cool.
Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at August 13, 2008 8:29 PM
creationstuart at August 13, 2008 7:03
Point is that humans have a moral compass built in over millions of years and hundreds of thousands of generations and that is what underlies our ability to function as highly organised social animals. Religions appropriate and distort, repackage and resell as their own brand time honored naturalistic laws.
It should be obvious even to you Stu that the alternative is rational secular belief.
Religion does the opposite of what you are claiming.
John Hartung.."The bible is a blueprint for an ingroup morality complete with instructions for genocide, enslavement of out groups and world domination. It glorifies murder, cruelty and rape. It is sold as a foundation for morality. The bible is sold, and bought as a guide to how people should live their lives, and it is the worlds all time best seller".
spanky668 at August 13, 2008 6:13 PM
Religion does you no harm? I think already it has distorted your faculties of reason and observation quite noticeably.
Have a think about that in the light of the terrorist threat from fundamental Islam mate, one of the 3 Abrahamic Sky God religions along with Judaism and Christianity.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 13, 2008 8:06 PM
This may not fit here, but there doesn't seem to be any place to say it...
I was just thinking about how a lot of people on here are upset that they don't get courtesy rejections to their emails and kisses. The usual complaint is that those who don't reply are just selfish and rude.
But I think a more nuanced explanation is that many people just feel uncomfortable pulling the trigger. This links in with facts about how humans in general seem to view acts and omissions.
If someone is going to die in 2 days, and I could alleviate that suffering by shooting the person, should I do it?
This is closely analogous to what happens on here. You can put someone out of their misery, so to speak, by responding in the negative. But then, you have to pull the trigger, and be directly responsible. If you just let it slide, and don't respond, they will get the message *eventually*, and you didn't have to do anything at all that directly harmed them.
Posted by: drone at August 13, 2008 8:05 PM
Re. the Secret, the Law of Attraction, etc...
The best that can be said for it is that it is true that if you look happy and expectant, people will react more favourably to you than that would if you look unhappy and resigned. That is about the only basis in anything that this has.
The other stuff about the Universe caring about you, and somehow only being nice to you if you ask it, is downright bizarre.
If things go wrong with you, this is because you had the wrong attitude towards the Universe. I bet the Jews in Hitler's concentration camps prayed to God for deliverance, and with way more sincerity than any of us could pray to the Universe for a partner, a better career, etc.
So what did the Universe do for them?
The Secret = refuge for feeble minds.
Posted by: drone at August 13, 2008 7:57 PM
Oh, dear l was wondering when we would get around to religion.
Glad l am an athiest actually.............K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 13, 2008 7:29 PM
Marcus,
Whilst the belief system isn't perfect, it does serve us well and there has been some decay over time as it has been dismissed.
You are still however just attacking a belief system and not providing a viable alternative base line to build a value system from.
For if you are mearly saying reason should dictate behaviour.
Then that is very arbitary, for what is fully reasonable for one may indeed be completely unreasonable to another.
Using reason, what is reasonable?
For instance I would say deliberately mucking with my pseudonym even if you think it is funny is unreasonable.
So stop bashing the belief system and offer a viable alternative please....
Posted by: creativestuart at August 13, 2008 7:03 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 13, 2008 4:33 PM
Marcus, until recently the only two days pubs were closed were Good Friday and Christmas, a couple of decades ago, homosexuality and suicide were crimes, bigamy and poligamy still are ........wait a sec .......... aren't these relics of a religious doctrine..... carry overs of cultural beliefs and values........ should we not do away with these too (having just said that most of them have been..... but you get my point). Our laws are based on religious prinicples and our societal values share these fundamental tenets of respect, not harming each other, and so on..... do we NEED religion to achieve "enlightenment" ..... NO... and while there is some truth to "even now killing ourselves over ancient literature", I think there are far greater numbers who are not...... how many murders, robberies and assaults were commited in Sydney last week in the name of religion????? I don't believe that an all powerful being created us to pay homage to them, but I have no problem with someone else believing that (or "knowing" that) as long as they don't knock on my door to try and convert me....... I respect every individuals right to choose..... why wouldn't I, it costs nothing, does me no harm, and creates differences in the world which keep it interesting...... just a thought......
Posted by: spanky668 at August 13, 2008 6:13 PM
Thank you Jennifer hi...
I do enjoyed reading your post too...
Posted by: exoticorigin at August 13, 2008 5:31 PM
Posted by: creationstuart August 13, 2008 9:13 AM
"I think fanatical religion and a lack of compromise is the source of many of the world's problems."
TStu, that point of view is still holding that faith, not reason, is a virtue. Moderate religion forms the foundations from which fanatacism gets its support. Religion has actually convinced people that there is an invisible man living in the sky, who watches and ticks and crosses you for 10 vital things....
Sam Harris said;
'The danger of religious faith is that it allows otherwise normal human beings to reap the fruits of madness and consider them holy. Because each new generation is taught that religious propositions need not be justified in the way all other must, civilisation is still besieged by the armiies of the preposterous. We are, even now killing ourselves over ancient literature. Who should have thought something so tragically absurd could be possible?'
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 13, 2008 4:33 PM
exoticorigin ~ 2.03 PM. Some very wise words there! Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at August 13, 2008 4:12 PM
Time is very slow for those who wait.
Very fast for those who are scared.
Very long for those who lament.
Very short for those who celebrate.
But, for those who love - time is eternity.
Many people lose the small joys.
in hope for the big happiness.
A good plan for today is better than a perfect plan for tomorrow.
If a drop of water falls in a lake, there is no identity.
But, if it falls on the leaf of a lotus, it shine like a pearl.
We need to choose the best place where we can shine.
when we reach for the stars, we may not quite get them, but we won't come up with a handful of mud either.
In any moment of decision,
the best thing you can do is, do the right thing.
The worst thing you can do is, do nothing.
If I could return to youth
I would commit all those errors again...
But, a bit earlier...
Nothing can be taught to a man
but it's possible to help him to find the answer within himself.
Smart man learns from his mistakes.
A wise man learns from the mistakes of others...
Respect cannot be demanded, it must be earned.
Respect is earned only by giving it away.
Never walk on the travelled path,
because it only leads you, where the others have been...
Always, there is a drop of madness in love, yet..
Always, there is a drop of reason in madness....
Love me when I less deserve it...
because it's then when I need it most....
A...
Posted by: exoticorigin at August 13, 2008 2:03 PM
Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 13, 2008 10:15 AM
Beautifully worded.....So connected with all you said
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 13, 2008 1:38 PM
I rely on any connection that I have with anyone at any given time. I listen to my inner voice and sort the wheat from the chaff fairly quickly.
I always like to benefit doubt but usually go with my guts.
I know if some one is going to be healthy or not by what they say, how they walk and what they talk about.
Dates are shmates on the same road as me looking for Mr Wonderful or Mrs Wonderful but have not settled on just any one.
I see everyone blossom every day - although I sometimes think I am the centre of the universe and think it should always be about me, the truth is it is not.
Dysfunctional is the name of my stereo that plays what it wants, how it wants and when it wants but it is a bit like me from time to time - a bit wild and wooly but we make a great time and deal with the music that it spits out.
My method works for me to never take second best, look hard for the one for me, work for the best outcome and not spend an decade finding it.
I am only human and have the odd mishap but learn, win the lesson and move on.
Blunders are part of life my friendly co bloggers - it is up to you how you deal with it.
Amour is having a coffe date at the Entrance, wish her well and always in good company.
Must look busy now and try to earn some currency to fund my social life. xxx
Posted by: amourmoi08 at August 13, 2008 10:15 AM
iaminperth at August 13, 2008 8:43 AM
You are spot on.....
it is the actions not the words that determine your worth
Posted by: creativestuart at August 13, 2008 9:27 AM
piscesgirl56 at August 12, 2008 11:26 PM
"I am shocked by the fact that some men deal with several women at the same time - how on earth can you focus on each women's personal qualities with such a diffused attention?"
That, I'm afraid, is the nature of the internet beast. The very way that this thing is set up encourages people to be dealing with more than one person at a time - indeed, sometimes this possibility is marketed as one of its virtues. It's not really a gender-specific issue. Plenty of women are simultaneously organising multiple dates with different guys.
I do notice a lot of people saying that people on here aren't willing to give them enough of a go/seem to want instant chemistry, etc. Well, one thing that explains this, of course, is the way the site is set up. Some people now have way more options for having dates than they did in the past... if you are able to organise many dates in a brief period of time, then your criteria for evaluation of those dates will become more exacting, and you will blow people off more quickly, because you now seem to have more options than you did in your pre-internet life.
Posted by: drone at August 13, 2008 9:15 AM
I haven't actually disclosed how much/little I believe yet. indeed this discussion is not what each of us individually "believe"
And remember when having philosophical discussions we are always talking in general terms.
I think fanatical religion and a lack of compromise is the source of many of the world's problems.
And whilst I truly believe people are fundamentally good and certainly there is not totall anarchy going on or similar
There is however a liittle too much selfishness, a little too much consumerisim and some rough edges that have grown as church became a bit too serious, too morraly forthright, sometimes too good at talking whilst not good enouh at doing and not a weekly reinforcement of a value system as they once were. Family time together has suffered
Jen has sumarised the position well.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 13, 2008 9:13 AM
There are a lot of 'good' people who have done some very bad things. I don't know what the definition is of 'good' but I think if you have to shout if from the rooftops, chances are you are not.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 13, 2008 8:43 AM
Marcus ~ 11.44 p.m. A personal belief can sometimes be enough. There needs no explanation. It does not need to be justified to anyone. Personal belief and personal responsibility are core human traits. We accept what fits for 'us.'
The Church's hold over the masses in the past maybe wrong, maybe right, it doesn't really matter. If ultimately it created a goodwill between people, then I think it has been good. Of course on the whole even now, it still does create a goodwill and kindredness between people. In a way I guess I agree with Stuart there. Maybe the drop in community and family values has dropped because of the fall away from the Church. If the young were not receiving guidance (if you like for want of a better word) then the Church fulfilling that role was perhaps a good thing. There have always been abuses of the power they wielded, but overall I like to believe they have done a good job in helping to mould a more caring and compassionate human being.
"The important thing is not what you believe, but how you believe it." I guess I take the quote a different way to you Marcus. I don't need something to be based on reason or qualified by "proof." Though in many areas the proof has been given to support the belief. ( for me.) Sometimes it is simply enough to just "Believe."
Often to just Believe is simply enough. All will be given. And you know that I am not coming from any Christian doctrine there. We've discussed that before.
"Believe" is a favourite word for me. It says so much and means so much.
Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at August 13, 2008 7:40 AM
thelynathdairyAugust 11, 2008 11:44 PM
I have a locket I sometimes wear when I can find it. It was given to me in the Summer of 1969 and contains my favorite quote from Bert Russell.
“The important thing is not what you believe, but how you believe it.” The person who bases his belief on reason will support it by argument and be ready to abandon the position if the argument fails. Belief based on faith concludes that argument is useless and resorts to “force either in the form of persecution or by stunting and distorting the minds of the young whenever [it] has the power to control their education.”
Marcus xx
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 13, 2008 3:06 AM
creativestuart at August 12, 2008 12:51 PM
I would say good sense and behaviour survives and triumphs very often despite the religious interference. I mean you have the different brands of belief system in active competition for the religious consumers. Each promising a better experience from the different models. All base their premise on the assertion that there is a God; a deity or controller None of them can offer the slightest evidence, observable, testable, whatever for it's existence, just self reference. I think this is tantamount to lying and gross misrepresentation- prosecutable fraud in any other sphere of life.
Anyway, I'm sure that you and Starry would regard yourselves as 'good' people. I mean if in the absence of God you would commit murder, rape and robbery you would be bad.
If on the other hand you would continue to be good when not under divine observation then you fatally undermine the claim that God is necessary for us to be good.
Religion is probably what a lot of religious people think is what motivates them to be good especially if their faith is one that systematically mines and exploits personal guilt.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 13, 2008 2:52 AM
creationstuart at August 12, 2008 12:51 PM
Stuart, I'm not sure what you mean by 'good 'people but have a feeling it borrows quite heavily from a Christian belief system world view.
Without getting caught in the definition; 'good' people have been around for a lot longer than Churches. Our sense of right and wrong can probably be derived from our primordial past. Evolution may seem unlikely to account for the goodness we posess and our feelings of morality, decency, empathy and pity, but increasingly the evidence is accumulating and with no real opposition. Humans likely evolved on the plains of Africa and our early society, millions of years ago was probably akin to present day Baboon ones. We lived in family groups, or clans. People had a lot of interaction with their extended family and less so with more distantly related groups. As we all know humans are social animals and in being so rely on one another. From this come the four good reasons for individuals to be altruistic, kind or 'moral' towards each other. The first one is genetic kinship- family. The second is reciprocation: the repayment of favors given and the giving of favors in anticipation of payback. A third is the Darwinian benefit of aquiring a reputation for generosity and kindness- the fourth is the benfit of conspicuous generosity as a way of buying unfakeably authentic advertising. Space won't permit detail but any or all of the four routes would have been favored in early humans.
There has been quite a bit of experimental work done on this, and examining ideas put forward by moral philosophers. If our moral sense are indeed rooted deep in our past, predating religion, you would expect that research on the mind would reveal some moral universals crossing cultural, geographical and crucially religious barriers. When a hypothetical moral dilemma is posed the difficulty we have in answering it tells us something about our sense of right and wrong. To use the words of one researcher 'Driving our moral judgements is a universal moral grammar evolved over millons of years to include a set of principles building a range of possible moral systems As with our language the principles that make up this moral grammar fly beneath the radar of our awareness'
There is a classic situation of five people each dying of a specific organ failure in a hospital. There is a healthy man in the waiting room. In the tests conducted almost no one says it is permissible to kill the man for his organs even though it will save the lives of 5 people. There is no difference between atheists and religious believers on this and many other tests.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 13, 2008 2:12 AM
I am new to this kind of 'dating' busyness. From my limited experience I can say, that I need to learn some 'survival' skills before I can effectively participate in this game. I am shocked by the fact that some men deal with several women at the same time - how on earth can you focus on each women's personal qualities with such a diffused attention? In addition - some men hide the fact that they are attached to one or more women from the past (wife, lovers, partners) while they are looking for that 'perfect' partner on RSVP???!!!! Called emotional immaturity and no sense of responsibility towards themselves and others involved in their 'games' - they do not give us the opportunity to make an informed decision about meeting them or not! I would certainly not want even to start chatting with a man who is married or in any kind of relationship. Total waste of time! I expect people to be honest when creating their profiles! As about time... because of my personality type I need to spend quite a bit of time with a person before I feel comfortable to be myself. The first few meetings I would definitely act out of character, because of being so tense and unsure. Others who are extraverted would act differently of course. We have to allow for personality differences...I think the first impression can be quite deceiving in both positive and negative ways. There are important details like Values which must not be in contradiction, also personal preferences: like i prefer the man to be at least a little bit taller than me and bigger than me so I could feel like a 'woman', I would not tolerate a smoker, a drinker, a drug user, gambler, and a person with piercings or tatoos . These preferences might sound weird to some people but neverthless they are IMPORTANT to me - and I can tell from the profile whether these details match my expectations. Everything else, I believe can be worked out only when I have the opportunity to spend time with the person - the first meeting would not reveal much of the emotional and personality compatibility. I believe it is important to spend a lot of quality time together as FRIENDS for a while and NOT as dating couple. Only than it would be possible to get a better idea about who we want to start a relationship with. I cannot see how it can be good seeing more than one person at a time...it just feels wrong.That's how I see things at this stage. Please give me some useful suggestions and correct me if you feel I am wrong in some of my concepts.
Posted by: piscesgirl56 at August 12, 2008 11:26 PM
thelynathdiary at August 12, 2008 10:56 PM.
I know Dr Who sometimes steps out of his phonebox into the wrong time dimension, so I'm wondering if I've stepped into 2001: A Space Odyssey here.
Posted by: dadofdave at August 12, 2008 11:24 PM
maestrac at August 12, 2008 7:53 PM
Evidently faint-heartedness comes in all guises. Sounds like that clown couldn't get back in the saddle because he hasn't yet been thrown out of it. A bit Basil Fawlty-ish methinks.
Posted by: dadofdave at August 12, 2008 11:17 PM
oops, I forgot to sign out of the blog before my last comment, so it went under the old hal2000 name, ILL KEEP READING THE BLOG, UNTIL 'SOMEONE' COMES UP WITH SOMETHING I CAN COMMENT ON
Posted by: hobart212hal2000 at August 12, 2008 11:13 PM
Posted by: iaminperth at August 12, 2008 7:48 AM
Obviously it's a slow day here...and you said you have a sense of humour...
do you not understand the difference between a well known throw away line said in jest, and a serious proposal?
BTW apologies to englishteacher for spelling teachers" as teaches...six of the best for me?
ps Dominators..."Do NOT contact" it is only a bit of humour...
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 12, 2008 11:11 PM
well Hal, change is as good as a holiday...
wish you were here,
Someone xx
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 12, 2008 10:56 PM
So, Hal2000 you are thoughtless?
That is okay there are many thoughtless people here all the time.What do you think ?
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 12, 2008 10:52 PM
MY FIFTH NAME CHANGE( I was a couple of stevens, then hal2000, now hobart212hal2000) , ILL KEEP READING THE BLOG, UNTIL 'SOMEONE' COMES UP WITH SOMETHING I CAN COMMENT ON
Posted by: hal2000 at August 12, 2008 10:41 PM
WB, the thing about shopaholics is that they never really want the things that they have purchased...funny that.
Posted by: istj54 at August 12, 2008 10:21 PM
I CANT THINK OF ANYTHING TO POST A COMMENT ON AT THE MOMENT, BUT I'LL KEEP READING THE BLOG, AND PERHAPS 'SOMEONE' WILL COME UP WITH SOMETHING I'LL COMMENT ON
Posted by: hal2000 at August 12, 2008 10:21 PM
It's not height, eyes, teeth...like you're buying a horse. Posted by: curiousandcreative at August 12, 2008 7:40 PM
Mmm not sure about that. When shopping evaluation should be given to age, height, offspring and education i think. Too young and they lack experience, too old and you may get health problems. Unschooled they can be a nightmare to handle even if their impressive lineage for offspring cannot be overlooked. The deal breaker for me, is height. Too tall and they are impossible to mount. But you are right, TIME WILL TELL. Will i like them and enjoy their company...to the point where you give your heart...that takes time.
We are talking about horses, aren't we?
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 12, 2008 9:37 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 8, 2008 1:00 PM - obviously a 'non-believer'...
Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 12, 2008 9:19 PM
I received a "kiss" this afternoon, after reading the message I looked at the profile (photo hidden) which only had a few lines of information.
He said....."I want a woman to run away with to get away from my boring wife" after laughing my head off I hit the reply button only to find his profile hidden, when I read the message again it said message cannot be viewed as this person is no longer a member of RSVP.
How's that for an instant decision.
Posted by: maestrac at August 12, 2008 7:53 PM
Capriciousimp - thank you for your insightful comment. I don't like that 'running down a list' feeling either. The things that interest me I don't think can be 'ticked off'. It's not height, eyes, teeth...like you're buying a horse. That's why TIME WILL TELL. Will I like a person and enjoy his company...to the point where you give your heart...that takes time...J
Posted by: curiousandcreative at August 12, 2008 7:40 PM
thank you :)
Posted by: kittenheelsxx at August 12, 2008 6:56 PM
Stuart, they closed the other blog before I could ask you about Anthony's Cutting. What is planned? When? This is serious.
Before I cash in my chips I would dearly love to get over Anthony's Cutting at 160+. Using just the outside lane. None of this both lanes nonsense.
Not sure I have it in me now. Doesn't help that the speed limit is 80 either.
rgds grego
Posted by: grego7 at August 12, 2008 6:30 PM
Thanks for your kind words on the other blog, Grego, much appreciated. You certainly can write well. Can I just say I don't put my profile up much because my partner doesn't like that....he feels uncomfortable about it. I'm fine with it but I respect his feelings.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 12, 2008 6:22 PM
RSVP can be a shopaholics paradise, Cap. There are so many people on the site that you can go out with several people a week for months...and I think that might be why some people start treating it like a job interview. It's an awful feeling to be seeking the position...being measured and checked as it were ... but otoh a lot of people are nervous, too, and behave oddly because of that.
About young people....I don't think there is any evidence that they are worse than the previous generation. I like them - I think that on the whole they are a happy thoughtful generous bunch of people - admittedly with one or two oddballs thrown in, but you always get that.I don't see a decline in values, either, Stu. In fact I'd say I've seen a decline in hypocrisy over the last 30 years.
Waterbombe - Female, 55, 2 kids, Melbourne
Posted by: waterbombe at August 12, 2008 6:21 PM
After a few experiences, I'm just on the look out for whether they're narcissists or not; whether their sense of entitlement is so childishly out of proportion that they think you've appeared just to serve and pleasure their egos!
If and when 'the other shoe drops' and they're actually still curious and caring, then it's a very good sign. If not, there's not much you can do; or should try to do!
Posted by: capriciousimp at August 12, 2008 4:57 PM
Thanks Capricious for bringing us back to topic :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 12, 2008 4:11 PM
Ok Stuart, answering your questions imho.
"If not there, where are these values learned?"
The values have to be learnt from good parenting and a good community. Someone before said "it takes a village to raise a child". That's still true in a way.
"Do we currently have a breakdown of some of these values and "good" behaviours with the drift away from these beliefs?"
Every generation says "kids were never like that in my day", do they not? I dont think that means that every generation gets worse and worse, it just means we remember the lessons we learnt, just as our kids will do.
"Is this leading to a lot of the problems with the younger members of society?"
See above.
What is your suggestion on how to get the values back without a belief in God?"
Who says there there are any more values with a belief in God? Animals have no God but have a tremendous sense of fairness. When I share my food with my dogs, they know "whose turn" it is, even if the food goes closer the one whose turn it isnt. Ive seen kids sharing icecreams with animals (gross I know) and the animal KNOWS it is supposed to take a lick and then its the kid's turn. Very simplistic I know. But if humans and their gods all disappeared, the world will keep turning.
Posted by: willow29 at August 12, 2008 4:10 PM
I remember each time a girl first asked me about myself as though ticking off a mental list of 'suitability' criteria.
Yuck.
Posted by: capriciousimp at August 12, 2008 3:52 PM
starryeyez August 12, 2008 8:05 AM
Starry, do you think that a belief in God or the New Age equivalent 'the Universe' is needed for us to be good?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 12, 2008 12:14 PM
I am not getting into a religious debate on here. I am a Catholic and try my best, to follow the basics of my religion. But in saying that, I also follow the basic principles of Buddhism, although to me, The Five Precepts are a lot harder to adhere to, than the 10 Commandments...lol.
May I ask Marcus, how discussing the Law of Attraction, brought about your question to me? As basically the Law of Attraction, is the relationship with yourself and God (The Universe), not about following a particular religion or being 'good'.
Posted by: starryeyez at August 12, 2008 2:55 PM
willow29 at August 12, 2008 1:01 PM
True, and like Starry, I do believe most people are good.
But that wasn't my question, I also agree with malsie that some of the "religious" people, especially the extremely "religious" ones can be the best at preaching and the worst at doing.
The "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" philosophy is a sound oneand whilst not only the domain of the spiritual, that is certainly where it comes from.
However... I believe whilst there have been many good advances over the past 30 years, there has definately been a drop in family and community values, that relates directly to the decline in a spiritual belief basis. (Church now being seen by some as only the place for those passionate about religious beliefs)
And so I asked what I did below and would be interested in answers...
Posted by: creativestuart at August 12, 2008 2:13 PM
Marcus, I know your question was to Starry (and I'm not attempting to answer for her, of course) - but for myself, no, I definitely don't believe you have to have a belief in God or "the universe" to be a "good" person. In fact, many times people who purport to be "religious" or "spiritual" are not in many ways what I would define as "good" - and many people who have no such beliefs are decent, kind, caring, etc - some of the best people you could meet.
The "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" philosophy is a sound one, I believe, but it's certainly not only the domain of those spiritually inclined.
Posted by: malsie at August 12, 2008 1:40 PM
Szilvia, I like the sound of that, yes... it really rolls of the tongue if you say it outloud... thanks, will pop it in my little book that I keep for such occasions.... surely there hasn't been a children's book with something like in the title already??
Posted by: malsie at August 12, 2008 1:19 PM
Stuart, other people have managed to be good, virtuous, selfless, honest and brave without one.
Posted by: willow29 at August 12, 2008 1:01 PM
Marcus how about this question...
Starry's examples (Values learned from a belief in God and or associated teachings) give a good basis for learning about and being"good"
If not there, where are these values learned?
Do we currently have a breakdown of some of these values and "good" behaviours with the drift away from these beliefs?
Is this leading to a lot of the problems with the younger members of society?
What is your suggestion on how to get the values back without a belief in God?
Posted by: creativestuart at August 12, 2008 12:51 PM
Posted by: malsie at August 11, 2008 11:05 PM
Szilvia, perhaps I'll have to come to you for tales of other ancestors with slightly more obscure names to inspire the creative genius
Ok...How about Zolton the Sultan of the Ottoman empire....who does not like to be under foot ? .....hahaha
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 12, 2008 12:50 PM
starryeyez August 12, 2008 8:05 AM
Starry, do you think that a belief in God or the New Age equivalent 'the Universe' is needed for us to be good?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 12, 2008 12:14 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 12, 2008 12:29 AM
Marcster of the Universe, one of your best posts.
rgds grego
Posted by: grego7 at August 12, 2008 11:20 AM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 12, 2008 12:29 AM
In fits of laughter here....Thanks Marcus....great way to start the day !
And "The Secret" should have stayed a secret
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 12, 2008 9:51 AM
lynath, thanks for sharing that extract from Bertrand Russell's autobiography. I really enjoyed reading it.
Posted by: malsie at August 12, 2008 9:37 AM
Shouldn't that be Atilla the Hunny?
Posted by: egernia at August 12, 2008 8:34 AM
Part Two
Also you may like to look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Thought
The chief tenets of New Thought are
The five basic ideas that make up the Unity belief system are:
1. God is the source and creator of all. There is no other enduring power. God is good and present everywhere.
2. We are spiritual beings, created in God’s image. The spirit of God lives within each person; therefore, all people are inherently good.
3. We create our life experiences through our way of thinking.
4. There is power in affirmative prayer, which we believe increases our connection to God.
5. Knowledge of these spiritual principles is not enough. We must live them.
Posted by: starryeyez at August 12, 2008 8:05 AM
Posted by: waterbombe at August 12, 2008 7:22 AM
Earlier on Posted by:
starryeyez at August 11, 2008 5:43 PM
I wrote about following the basic message of The Secret since my teenage years. That's 25+ years worth of 'trying my best' to adhere to the basic message, of the Law of Attraction. WAY before The Secret was ever made.
I first heard about the Law of Attraction, from our Hungarian neighbour back in the late 70's. She was a flamboyant, colourful personality and a 'gypsy', back in the old country. I recall her giving me a book to read, by a Hungarian author. It had of course been translated, into so many different languages. But it was all about The Law of Attraction. That book facinated me and resonated back to me a message, that my 'soul' understood. Very hard to put into words
I guess The Secret, for me is like "Law of Attraction for Dummies" It's very easy to read (or listen to, if you get the Audio version)
What does this belief system do for me? Well it keeps me on my toes, keeps me in touch with my inner self. Assists me in life, work, my clients, my relationships.
A quick overview can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction
Desire. Get a strong enthusiasm for that which you want in your life, a real longing for something which is not there now.
Decision. Know definitely what it is that you want, what it is that you want to do or have.
Ask. [When sure and enthusiastic] ask for it in simple, concise language. . .
Believe. Believe in the accomplishment with strong faith, consciously and subconsciously.
Work. Work at it. . . a few minutes daily, seeing yourself in the finished picture. Never outline details, but rather see yourself enjoying the particular thing . . . Eventually, you will see a time where it will just appear, as a gift or such, or you may see an opportunity to get what you were asking for.
Feel gratitude. Always remember to say, "Thank you, God [or the universe]," and begin to feel the gratitude in your heart. The most powerful prayer we can ever make is those three words, provided we really feel it. Feel as though you already have what you wanted.
Feel expectancy. Train yourself to live in a state of happy expectancy... Find a way it will appear in your life, and keep believing in that. May it be that someone gives it to you, or you find an initiation to get it.
Posted by: starryeyez at August 12, 2008 8:02 AM
It's freezing here in Perth again today and I have to get up and go to work. The alarm is going to go off in about two minutes and my pooch will jump on the side of my bed to make sure I am awake. I am hoping for a little bit of sun during the day. Just not a winter person at all. Have a good day all, play nice, but most of all be honest that's how good things happen methinks.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 12, 2008 7:59 AM
Lynath, would you not think that the child was in serious need of some help due to atrocious parenting. Rather than assault the child wouldn't it be better to help the child understand that this is not acceptable in our school system. It seems the parents have abandoned him at such an early age, therefore, surely someone trained should recognise that. Please tell me what is the point of bashing a child for something he thinks is quite normal due to his already less than positive environment.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 12, 2008 7:48 AM
lol, Atilla the honey, very funny! The best thing about The Secret is the name. I can't help feeling people are being sucked in by that stuff....would someone tell me what you got from it ?
Posted by: waterbombe at August 12, 2008 7:22 AM
Lovely words, Lynath. Thought provoking and powerful.
Posted by: willow29 at August 12, 2008 6:57 AM
One day while counting treasure, reminiscing pillages and writing his autobiography Atilla the Honey was touched by a web of universal energy and told that It had his interests at heart. Transmogrified by this his mind expanded and his brains dropped out of his backside. Thus enlightened he floated off into the ether and enrolled to do a self paced online course (finance available, certificate of attendance $30) on brotherhood and peace, Holism, Personal transformation, Gaia, man the divine and Transforming the Young. A low cost extra "How does The Secret really work?" ( it works by riding on the DaVinci Codes success formula and making it's author and publisher millions) with a Reikki, Shamanism, Kundalini and Paranormal Investigation unit was also available.
Back on Earth, Atilla's brain was given a book called Why Smart People Believe Weird Things'. In it was the simple explanation that smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non smart reasons.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 12, 2008 12:29 AM
whatever? My daughters friend teaches Grade Two. Last week she instructed f the children to pack up pencils and books. Obviously one child was not used to being told what to do and replied
"Yeah, right, whatever lady!"
hmmmmm! "Whatever, lady" is how they talk to their teaches these days?"
Bring back the cane I say.....
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 11, 2008 11:50 PM
In the Summer of '72 I was given a one page handout of the prologue to Betrand Russells Autobiography. He was amongst other things a philosopher, a writer and an Agnostic. This prologue impressed me very much although I had no real idea why at the time, nor experienced of any of his passions.(although there was that boy from the boys school down the road who was willing to teach me a bit of feelosophy)
I kept it in a box with my other treasures and still have it. Over the years I have taken it out and read it many times and as each year goes by I understand it more and more and love it and have been inspired by it.
Although Russell was a scientist and one of his specialities was rationalism and logic, even he was humble enough to state that there is always room for doubt in all matters.
" it is proclaimed that science and religion have become reconciled: the scientists modestly admit that there are realms which lie outside science, and the liberal theologians concede that they would not venture to deny anything capable of scientific proof."
There are realms which lie outside Science Marcus.....
Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.
Bertrand Russell
I think we ought always to entertain our opinions with some measure of doubt. I shouldn't wish people dogmatically to believe any philosophy, not even mine.
Bertrand Russell
Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination.
Bertrand Russell
What I Have Lived For
Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind.
These passions, like great winds, have blown me hither and thither, in a wayward course, over a great ocean of anguish, reaching to the very verge of despair.
I have sought love, first, because it brings ecstasy - ecstasy so great that I would often have sacrificed all the rest of life for a few hours of this joy. I have sought it, next, because it relieves loneliness--that terrible loneliness in which one shivering consciousness looks over the rim of the world into the cold unfathomable lifeless abyss. I have sought it finally, because in the union of love I have seen, in a mystic miniature, the prefiguring vision of the heaven that saints and poets have imagined. This is what I sought, and though it might seem too good for human life, this is what--at last--I have found.
With equal passion I have sought knowledge. I have wished to understand the hearts of men. I have wished to know why the stars shine. And I have tried to apprehend the Pythagorean power by which number holds sway above the flux. A little of this, but not much, I have achieved.
Love and knowledge, so far as they were possible, led upward toward the heavens. But always pity brought me back to earth. Echoes of cries of pain reverberate in my heart. Children in famine, victims tortured by oppressors, helpless old people a burden to their sons, and the whole world of loneliness, poverty, and pain make a mockery of what human life should be. I long to alleviate this evil, but I cannot, and I too suffer.
This has been my life. I have found it worth living, and would gladly live it again if the chance were offered me.
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 11, 2008 11:44 PM
willow29 - wow, really? There I was thinking I had an original idea.... back to the drawing board for me... damn...
Szilvia, perhaps I'll have to come to you for tales of other ancestors with slightly more obscure names to inspire the creative genius...
Posted by: malsie at August 11, 2008 11:05 PM
"Whatever"?? Mantra, girlfriend, mantra!!
It offers up nonchalance, disinterest, casualness, calmness, whatever.... l love it!!................K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 11, 2008 10:27 PM
Hi Malsie, Sorry mate, but the book's written already. A kid on a bus was reading it to me. The bus driver was amazed, he said that the kid is usually slashing seats.
Posted by: willow29 at August 11, 2008 10:05 PM
Posted by: malsie at August 11, 2008 9:40 PM
Quite right...it is a great name ...maybe to good for our blog friend here..haha...
Attila the hen...sounds like a great idea...DO IT....the death of Attila would add a bit of mystery to the ending...look it up....his body has never been found...still searching today together with many treasures and that was back in 443AD imagine ...Szilvia
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 11, 2008 9:58 PM
An observation - I wonder how many people on this site would receive more contacts ( or be more successfull ) with their contacting people if they moved near or within their closest city.
but, then again, there would never be any guarantee of improved results etc
Posted by: steven212 at August 11, 2008 9:53 PM
apologies to your ancestors, forevernow!
I have a bit of a fascination with that name, I think - I always had a hankering to write a children's story called Attila The Hen.... maybe one day I'll get round to it....(I haven't totally abandoned the idea yet - so no plagiarising, people - thanks :) )
Posted by: malsie at August 11, 2008 9:40 PM
Marcus, Willow, Malsie & Kurli...thanks!
I think my 'appearance' is a direct result of my personality, not deliberate. I love colour and get to work with it most days. My students always seem to know when I'm "off colour". Apologies for that one...
You guys love a good argument, but sometimes what you believe isn't as fun as talking about it with the right person. There's nothing wrong with picking out bits of your fave philosophy! If it ain't broke, don't fix it...homespun wisdom. My mum's philosophy comes from the movie "Clueless" - yes, it's "whatever"! Any others out there with that one? ...J
Posted by: curiousandcreative at August 11, 2008 9:11 PM
No Malsie..it's "Marcster of The Universe"
Posted by: thelynathdiary at August 11, 2008 7:57 PM
Hi All, Marcus you are an astute man Mutley is the name of my dog, very cool I think. Having read what others have said I think your questions have been addressed I would like to say that my beliefs can very easily exist without threat side by side with conventional sciences. I can not claim to have studied Einstien in any detail but He seems to know what he is on about but like us all did not have all the answers. I think there is great merit in seeking advice from both conventional and alternative medical practitioners and have seen positive results with both.
Not sure why you assume that I would want my views to connect with most peoples reality...odd to want that need in ones life.
Posted by: mutley4 at August 11, 2008 7:37 PM
Posted by: malsie at August 11, 2008 4:14 PM
that's given me a great new name for Marcus - has to be Attila, doesn't it? :)
Please ...not that....Atilla .....now you are playing with my ancestors.....lol
Posted by: forevernow1 at August 11, 2008 7:02 PM
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 11, 2008 3:32 PM
Me too Aqueouss...I have believed and lived by the broader message of The Secret, since I was a teenager.
I think all of us can gain something from it's message and highly recommend it to all. Heck, anything motivational is a useful tool, for our own personal evolution and journey through life.
For those of you, who are thinking "but I'm just too busy, to sit down and read it" Well so am I !! I own the 5 disc audio version, of The Secret and play it from time to time when I am driving to work.
Which reminds me, I better get off these blogs and get to work...lol
Posted by: starryeyez at August 11, 2008 5:43 PM
To Curious& Creative:
Welcome,good to see another Brissie person "on board".
Love your vibrant hair,and I guess,A personality to match.
kurli
Posted by: kurli at August 11, 2008 5:09 PM
aqueous, that's given me a great new name for Marcus - has to be Attila, doesn't it? :)
Posted by: malsie at August 11, 2008 4:14 PM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 11, 2008 12:16 PM - You might want to offer your rational explanation of how the universe could have everyone's interests at heart?
The universe consists of energy that is attracted and dispelled according to similar forces therefore positive attracts positive. Although band wagoned 'The Secret' by Rhonda Byrne has some enlightening experiences. Perhaps i will lend you my copy, hun.
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 11, 2008 3:32 PM
Marcus, I wouldn't put it as "going out in sympathy", more just thinking along the same lines, just as there are other people's ways of being in the world that you relate to on here and I frequently do not. But I embrace the differences between us and don't feel it necessary that we all see the world the same way - which is never going to happen anyway...
As to offering a "rational" explanation re the universe comment - nah, Marcus, not going to happen. I just don't believe (as I've said to you before) that everything has to be neatly and rationally explained. To you I guess that's a huge cop out; to me it's something I'm totally comfortable with.
I had a bit of a chuckle at the "doggy" comment....
Posted by: malsie at August 11, 2008 1:43 PM
malsie at August 11, 2008 9:07 AM
I was right tthinking that you and Jen would go out in sympathy with Mutley over that feeling universe guff. You might want to offer your rational explanation of how the universe could have everyone's interests at heart?
I thought the name I chose was an improvement on the original which sounds slightly doggy.
The comment you made to curiousandcreative was a bit more nuanced than mine and I think a good explanation from a female perspective on how things evolve as you get more informed, confident and perhaps discriminating. I hope amber reads it.
As I say, after 9 years, the first 250 or so dates were the hardest part of the learning curve.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 11, 2008 12:16 PM
curiousandcreative: I think once you get started with the internet dating thing, you just find your own level as you go on. When I first began I was very cautious, very slow. I used to email for ages before talking on the phone, then ages before I felt ready to meet anyone. I wasn't worried about the integrity of the people I was meeting, just getting comfortable with the process. Guys used to get very impatient with my slowness, and I can understand it, but it was the only way I was able to be at the time.
Now I'm very comfortable with it I only need a couple of emails, one phone call, and if I like the sound of the person, get on to meet ASAP - but I had to get there in my own time. Once I realised it's just people meeting people, no great big drama, I could take it all a whole lot more casually, and I can honestly say my life has been enriched for the experience of all the people I've met and connections I've made. I wish you luck with it!
Marcus - I'm disappointed in your choice of disparaging name for Mutley. I wondered if you'd use that one, then thought, no, surely he won't be so predictable. At least the one you chose for me was a bit more original.
Jen @ 8.05 pm - thanks, Jen :)
Posted by: malsie at August 11, 2008 9:07 AM
Hi Curiousandcreative! Love your pictures, very vibrant. As for your question regarding RSVP dating, you really have to go with your instincts and do what's right for you.
Another blogger suggested to me to get a webcam so you can see the person before you meet them. Not a bad idea, especially if they're a million miles away.
Marcus, how lovely to have so much wildlife in your gran's place. I love the phascogales. We found a Kakadu Dunnart in Adelaide River. It made all the science journals, which was pretty cool.
Posted by: willow29 at August 11, 2008 7:22 AM
curiousandcreative at August 10, 2008 9:36 PM
Forget all that cautious stuff. Get out there amongst the dates. The men appreciate it and RSVP will love you.
Jenniferhigh. August 10, 2008 8:05 PM
Now what is wrong with asking for a sensible explanation when some one makes a big claim?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 11, 2008 12:48 AM
Just wanted to say "Hi" and thanks. Just joined recently and finding rsvp a whole new world. My first time here and all advice you lovely people have given is being carefully filed away. Feel like first day at a new school - unsure, nervous and hopeful. Dating & friendship wise I usually give trust until it is broken, but maybe with this rsvp dating thing slower & safer is better? What do you think???...J
Posted by: curiousandcreative at August 10, 2008 9:36 PM
willow29 at August 10, 2008 5:54 PM
I love a nature moment and seeing Agile antechinus on my grandmothers bush property out of Packenham is a good childhood memory. We also had the much less common and much larger Brush tailed phascogales or Tuans there. Those guys look like a smaller tree living Numbat and have the most amazing brush tails that they can fluff up.. The phascogale males also self sacrifice after mating so as to leave resources for the nursing mother and then young.
Motley August 10, 2008 5:19 PM
Surely you want any beliefs that you are promoting in a public place to have some sort of connection to most peoples reality?
The universe is mostly empty space and Einstein adequately explains that matter and energy are the same. Energy has a particular, very specific meaning and the way you use the word it is not only incorrect but so vague as to be meaningless. It might be a personal belief being publicly advanced but I'm interested in how you can arrive at the conclusion that 'the universe has everyone's interest at heart and tells us so'.
Most peoples observations of the universe suggest it is supremely indifferent to the tiny matters of earthlings.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 10, 2008 8:11 PM
Just a question, does "our" best interests mean just humans? An antechinus male for instance, goes through a pretty rough time fighting for his ideal partner and then wears himself out so much in the "act" that he dies soon after. He pretty much exists for that one performance. That might be the best interest of that species but pretty hard on the poor male antechinus.
What was this topic again?
Posted by: willow29 at August 10, 2008 5:54 PM
Hey Marcus, What I talk of here is more of a belief than anything so in short it is the world according to me and dont expect all to agree nor disagree it is just what I believe works for me.
I do not see it as a particularly big statement but understand that if you dont follow what I believe how it could seem so. I see the universe as nothing more than energy, energy that can be manipulated by any individual. How that energy is used is up to each and every one of us as individuals. We are both the mechanism and the inbox as you put it (great term by the way) so it is up to each of us to used the energy positively and be open to our own intuition. I could go on but hope to have answered your queries. Cheers
Posted by: mutley4 at August 10, 2008 5:19 PM
mutley4 at August 10, 2008 8:00 AM
"I think the universe has our best interests at heart and tells us so."
Seems a rather large statement mutley.
How do you decide the universe has everyones best interest at heart and what is the mechanism it uses to decide those interests and tell us about its decisions?
Do you have a special Inbox somewhere?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 10, 2008 4:24 PM
Wow this is pretty cool, Willow I had not really thought of it from that perspective and agree totally with you. I like malsies view on this topic as well. I suppose I had never really made the connection between the spiritual side of a being and the physiological side but of course as an organism (very crude way of putting it) we must be connected completely to function as we are intended. Funny how that connection can be short circuited by our surroundings or is it all by choice?
Posted by: mutley4 at August 10, 2008 4:22 PM
Hi. Not sure if this is the right place to post this comment but one thing I have noticed since being on RSVP is that all of these down to earth, sensitive, open, fun loving guys with a good sense of humour, are only interested in people of a certain height and appearance (i.e. slim or athletic)... What is with that?
Posted by: murfo at August 10, 2008 4:19 PM
mutley4, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it is mine! I believe the solar plexus is akin to the seat of our emotions; thoughts come into our heads, but we feel them in our stomach and heart. When people are upset by someone or something, they say they feel they've been "kicked in the guts" - when we are emotionally distressed, our stomachs register that physiologically. So I believe totally in "gut reactions" and their validity.
Posted by: malsie at August 10, 2008 3:46 PM
Mutley, I think that the gut feeling is the subconscious logic.All those millions of pictures that you have put together in secret filing places in your brain - seemingly meaningless things, like your reaction to a person who had a large gap between their front teeth, or the size of an iris, or the nuances of body language which have told your subconscious mind that a person is honest or lying, nice or should be avoided.
When you meet someone, these microscopic pieces of information come out as a "gut feeling".
Posted by: willow29 at August 10, 2008 3:23 PM
Hi Willow, thanks for the welcome. I suppose my question now is, is the logic you talk of the conscious mind or the subconscious mind talking? I think there is a big difference. The concious mind is the part that gets caught up with the shoulds of how we behave largely moulded by our upbringing and especially by societies expectations of us. The gut feeling is the only pure and uncluttered way to find answers. In relation to the topic at hand know what you want, dont compromise or settle for second best and trust your initial reactions and I would suggest that the answers are all there. Yes? I do come from a metaphysical angle and appreciate that this is not everyones cup of tea.
Posted by: mutley4 at August 10, 2008 2:02 PM
Waterbombe,
Thanks will take your comments on board and try to change the "nots" & "buts" in my profile.
Thank you so much for your kind words about my photos. Lookswise, I would have always preferred to be beautiful and sophisticated, (especially at 50!) but that is the way I have always looked, just older!
TW thanks for your input. I took the photos myself with my small digital camera on timer. Not much scope for creativity really and I hate having my photo taken anyway.
I might be able to talk my daughter into taking a full shot of me and my dog, but I sort of doubt it.
She's not sure of the merits of RSVP for her mum!
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 10, 2008 1:20 PM
Hi Mutley and welcome. I agree that the 'gut feeling" is well worth listening too. As we become "smarter", our logic overrides what is essentially the brain's quick assessment of a situation based on years of feedback and storage. Maybe because the feedback is stored so deeply, we call it 'gut feeling" :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 10, 2008 12:41 PM
HI, I am a virgin to this blogging (if that is even the right term :o) and have found reading everyones comments very interesting. I think the universe has our best interests at heart and tells us so. This gut feeling some have spoken of, I feel is our way of receiving such messages yet we so often dismiss them by rationalizing these feelings. If strong gut feelings arrise on a first date for crying out loud listen it will not lead you astray. If the feeling is a positive one then all the nuts and bolts will fall into place as is your want.......I think! :o)
Posted by: mutley4 at August 10, 2008 8:00 AM
yes , time tells, especially if you are wearing budgie smugglers.......and the budgies are looking a little smuggled...... ummm tired....
but back on topic........ I think if you are serious about finding a compatible partner / match, then you owe yourself and who ever so contacts you or you contact, some time to find out just a little bit more about each other than can be conveyed in a profile. you know, things like eye contact, body language, the sound of their voice... those little things that round out the flat picture on their profile. So yeah...time does tell :)
Posted by: aquamanda56 at August 9, 2008 10:39 PM
I found myself in a quandary here.....Waterbombe is in a loving relationship, so should I think her 'critiques/lectures' are valid....
Guess what....I don't...I truly think it is absurd.
Cheers,
B.
Posted by: bm1960 at August 9, 2008 9:35 PM
Thanks Waterbombe and Willow for now completing my education on the budgie smuggler. I thought they were more along the lines of the male version of the granny knicker......
Maybe they should be called plump birds, they would look more like that l would think.................K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 9, 2008 8:12 PM
Perth at 12.23....I so agree....and they have mirrors that are either never cleaned or have a vaseline coating.....a healthy self-esteem is one thing, but an over-inflated ego is another thing altogether. I feel young but my mirror and body creaks say the truth!!!
Cheers,
B.
Posted by: bm1960 at August 9, 2008 8:11 PM
Warped, the only people who get 'lectured', and not just by me, you will have noticed, are you and Marcus and Oldergent. And I think, by 'lectured', you mean criticised. I will continue to say what I want to say, moderator-willing, despite any tantys on the blogs.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 9, 2008 7:05 PM
Oh boo hoo Stu, no-ones picking on you, we all like you! We're just trying to well, sort of kick you up the bum. I mean how many other guys have their own personal matchmaker looking out for them. Do you have chooks on your property. Fresh eggs are really yum.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 9, 2008 6:54 PM
waterbomber at August 9, 2008 2:46 PM : You are wasting your time here trying to lecture everyone all the time. Stay with the comedy, which you do so very well.
Posted by: timewarp1 at August 9, 2008 6:18 PM
HaHa Waterbombe, and Willow, my education is now complete! I thought they were the male equivalent of the granny knicker. Like the elderly granny knicker, you with me?? Otherwise known as the bog catcher.....
Speedo's, well l call them .....Speedo's!! Men's togs, a nice package on the right bod.
But budgie smugglers? Nah l don't like that at all..Plump birds? Is that the new euphemism for a part of the male anatomy?? Oh dear!!...................K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 9, 2008 3:49 PM
iaminperth at August 9, 2008 12:23 PM
That is why my profile at least is honest, even with you lot picking on me all the time!
Posted by: creativestuart at August 9, 2008 3:46 PM
Hey Jewels, every time I hear the term "BOB" I think of our dear friend NotGodsGift... I'm not sure he'd be flattered by the acronym!!
Mmm, Marcus in budgie smugglers... there's a visual that'd keep anyone awake!! (No offence intended Marcus!)
Posted by: victoriadownunder at August 9, 2008 3:31 PM
Do you really not know what budgie smugglers are, Kaz? Well, how can I put it...I'll have a go. If I remember right, they are male swimwear, rather tight and a bit shiny....the tightness and the shine are relevant....bear with me here. Now, if you happened to be wearing only these, Kaz, and nothing else....and if you were bloke, not a woman....and if you decided to travel immediately to another country without a suitcase or indeed any other clothes....and if you intended to pay for your trip on arrival by 'fencing' a very exotic couple of budgerigars as soon as you had cleared Customs ... my question is, Kaz, where would you store the bugeriagars so that the Customs blokes in your destination airport were not alerted to them? You are a bloke, Kaz, not a woman....and wearing ONLY a pair of tight, shiny bathers .. you have no other possessions/hiding places ....you are looking innocent, trying to get one or two small but plump birds through Customs in a concealed place ... think HARD, Kaz. Hmmmm. Ok, that is why I believe these bathers are called budgie smugglers. But I may be wrong, I am not a bloke after all. Any corrections?
Posted by: waterbombe at August 9, 2008 2:46 PM
Kaz, budgie smugglers are speedos (men's bathing costumes).
Posted by: willow29 at August 9, 2008 1:55 PM
I think a lot of people try to portray an image of who they would like to be..not who they really are. I think this is extremely dangerous when trying to meet a future friend or partner. I love movies, cooking, long walks etc., etc., when the last movie you saw was 10 years ago, but I would go if I had someone to go with, cooking, well the recipe was no good, walking, well I walked from the car to the shops one day. Financially secure, well I would have been if my wife/husband hadn't left me. Love pets, so long as they stay out of my way. Teenagers are great, so long as I can tell them what to do and when to do it. All these things I believe need to be taken into consideration when first contact is made. We are all who we are and that's what makes us unique and that is the person you should be attracted to.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 9, 2008 12:23 PM
Oh you guys are funny!! Could we write a movie around these characters ...Peep Throat, Cheep Throat, industrial B&D dust suckers, budgie smugglers, BOBs with extra batteries, Tweetie Does Paris filmed at the Hilton...I will have a think while I go to the gym/do the shopping/build a new garden, which is the exciting stuff I have to do today. At least the sun is shining and the budgies are cheeping.
Ha ha Marcus very funny...BOB's "off switch going a long way to explain the tolerance needed for me". lol.
Amber, I really like your photos, you look sweet and appealing, and kind of cute (i won't be making a pass at you however :-). Anyway I think they are great. I would however remove any "not"s and "but"s from your profile...could you reframe the same statements in the positive sense instead?
Posted by: waterbombe at August 9, 2008 11:22 AM
Brilliant. all that you wrote in the list of how to recognise a player is exactly true in my case....that is how i gradualy worked it out, I could almost use that list as a tick or check list!!!!
The visions I am having of budgie smugglers and Bob are just keeping me wide eyed awake......lollolol...sleep well all......jewels
Posted by: junebaby57 at August 9, 2008 2:45 AM
Budgie smugglers....the mind boggles.
What on earth are they??.........K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 8, 2008 11:18 PM
OMG Kaz, Let's hope it wasn't Marcus budgie smugglers !!!!!
Posted by: iaminperth at August 8, 2008 10:00 PM
WB is that a heavy duty Black and Decker, as in a construction sense?/
It may need an extra battery pack is all........K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 8, 2008 9:53 PM
Marcus what does a clothes brush have to do with using the laid back seat of a car??
Did something go over my head??.
I am confuddled and befoosed, Marcus, please explain at yer earliest........K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 8, 2008 9:47 PM
Posted by: waterbombe at August 8, 2008 9:43 AM
waterbombe - full points for that post! The imagery! Wow! Would the lady with the B&D have to stop at the lint? Do you think it could suckk out some of the cynicism, too? Methinks Marcus would have the makings of a great guy...if only!
Posted by: waterlily58 at August 8, 2008 9:19 PM
To laughsandtalks.....I remember the first time I heard about the legendary 'boyfriend' Bob....I near wet myself....especially as the information was imparted by a friend who really did have a boyfriend called Bob!
Cheers,
B.
Posted by: bm1960 at August 8, 2008 8:21 PM
Oh WW you are one sick puppy, consider yourself smacked !
Posted by: iaminperth at August 8, 2008 7:58 PM
ssshhh at August 8, 2008 1:35 PM
Thanks but I'll just stick to my Speedo budgie smugglers for the moment and cope with the odd bird picking my lint or patting my lizards. Any moviemaking deemed necessary can be done adequately with the Nokia
Waterflambe. I'm having my thoughts about you and 'hand held' dildos. I'm wondering if your alleged blokes name is not Bob- for Battery operated boyfriend. The off switch would go a long way to explaining the tolerance needed for you.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 8, 2008 7:41 PM
Posted by: here2cwotswot at August 8, 2008 3:21 PM
so true!! how many times have we thought nah but then decided to ignore that gut feeling, only to find out we were right all along?
Posted by: kisskat at August 8, 2008 4:13 PM
lol Egernia, at least you taught him a lesson :)
Posted by: willow29 at August 8, 2008 4:03 PM
You're right Stuart, maybe I should write on my profile "will not tolerate drink drivers or litterers" because both are deal breakers for me.
Posted by: willow29 at August 8, 2008 4:01 PM
I go with my gut instinct. It's never lead me astray yet. If it says to see what happens, then I do. if it says to run for the hills then usually that's where I run. The few times (when I was much younger and didn't know any better) I ignored my gut instinct .... sometimes we just have to learn lifes lessons the hard way!! lol
Posted by: here2cwotswot at August 8, 2008 3:21 PM
willow29 at August 8, 2008 1:42 PM
gee you girls know how to pick them!
Mor important to drink than drive you home, he certainly had his piorities right NOT!
Or this world is completely upside down and I no longer fit!
Posted by: creativestuart at August 8, 2008 2:19 PM
Amberlight
He sure was an optimist. It was the topic of conversation on our second date. How I left him stranded (violins playing) in the middle of Lygon St Carlton at 1am trying to get a taxi home. Happy to say that he did drive his own car to that 2nd date.
Willow
Yes he sure did have a cheekiness about him which is why I went on that second date. :-)
Posted by: egernia at August 8, 2008 2:11 PM
Did anyone else used to watch the Catherine Tate show on ABC? I loved the old woman who was all sweet and nice and then when her visitor left, said "What a f***g liberty!". Thats the first thing I thought of when I read your post, Egernia!
Posted by: willow29 at August 8, 2008 2:06 PM
Egernia, the cheek! Someone I went out with parked at his friends with whom we were going to dinner with. I said "are you not drinking then?" He said "what do you mean?" I replied that I wasnt going to get in a car with someone who was drinking and driving so make a decision while he can. He said "ok, here's the keys".
Posted by: willow29 at August 8, 2008 1:42 PM
W&W@ 12.45....Tweetie does Paris...filmed at the Hilton of course.....
Posted by: ssshhh at August 8, 2008 1:35 PM
Well you can't say he wasn't an optimist, egernia!
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 8, 2008 1:20 PM
Telltale signs
Lint, fish 'n chip stealing, drinking glasses.
A first date I had was dropped off at the front of the restaurant. I'm watching him dismount from the MB4WD thinking...hmmm this guy has his own chauffer or he's expecting me to drive him home tonight after the date....
He WAS expecting me to drive him home. AS IF!
Posted by: egernia at August 8, 2008 1:10 PM
junebaby57; brilliantblue; waternymph47
Where are the the 30 something girls who think like you?.......
Posted by: creativestuart at August 8, 2008 1:03 PM
heart2heart57 at August 8, 2008 2:25 AM
Guts and chakras for thinking with? Chakras? CHAKRAS? Wtf. Intuition? Come on. I'm sure you realise what the end product of your gut is? Use your brain for thinking, gut for digesting, and the accumulation of experiences you have gained over your life for rational decision making.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 8, 2008 1:00 PM
Posted by: junebaby57 at August 8, 2008 7:53 AM
I agree with Jewels...from my experience the men that are in there fast like your the love of their life usually turn out to be the players!
The nice men appear to take it slower and give you respect and time to get to know them and for them to really get to know you!
I think these are things to be aware off -
1. He can never talk if you phone and will phone at odd times!
2. He only dates you during the week never on a weekend
3. Comes on very strong when with you but then has long lapses inbetween!
4. Wants to spend most nights together at your place!
5. Never at his!
Posted by: brilliantblue at August 8, 2008 12:37 PM
"Waterbombe @10.43...how about "Peep Throat"?
Posted by: ssshhh at August 8, 2008 11:20 AM"
More likely cheep throat.
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 12:05 PM
............Or "is that a budgie in your pants or are you just really happy to see me?"
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 8, 2008 12:03 PM
Onya Stuart wish there were guys in their 60s like you!(A lot less thought and a lot more action is needed in all of this!
I would never make a decision on a coffee meeting, I know almost nothing from that brief a meeting.Two or three dates before actual decision time for me.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 7, 2008 )7:49 PM
Sadly most of them to see me as older than they want or they are in a hurry and want to meet right away with no emails or time to talk first!
As for Marcus comment:( i have never done this before as the car seats get laid back" )
Of course she hasn't done it before.Well not with you anyway!! If she was married for years and you're her first fling for instance?. Altho the only time I did it in the back seat it was with a guy I was well into a relationship with .. both in our mid 40s and both wanting to try something we'd never done in our youth.. just a one off but it was great because we knew and trusted one another... and that little element of .. what if we get caught was fun too .. tho we were in a secluded place!
Posted by: waternymph47 at August 8, 2008 12:00 PM
Gives a whole new meaning to budgie smugler waterbomber ......
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 11:38 AM
Thanks for your kind thoughts, Amber, Willow...must get off to work now though! Hope the porno movie is under production when I get back...by all accounts (I'm going by the first lint episode) Marcus is a fast mover.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 8, 2008 11:38 AM
Waterbombe @10.43...how about "Peep Throat"?
Posted by: ssshhh at August 8, 2008 11:20 AM
Waterbombe & WNW
Great stuff! :)
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 8, 2008 11:05 AM
Thanks willow - I must be in a jovial mood today. Ah ..... Fridays are always so quiet at work, maybe that's it and the sun is shining.
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 10:48 AM
Perhaps, Marcus, you could make a porn movie called Budgie Does Lint. I can see a market for that among ornithologists....wouldn't you be in touch with a few of them, given your interest in nature?
Posted by: waterbombe at August 8, 2008 10:43 AM
WnW - your first comment had me smiling and by the last one, I was chuckling out loud. Keep it up!
Jewells, how rotten for you. Did you tell him he was a bounder and a cad? That seems to be the phrase at the moment. Better luck next time.
Posted by: willow29 at August 8, 2008 10:35 AM
waterbombe - I thought while she had the Black and Decker in her hand he might say "hey, while you've got that thing out ......" :-)
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 10:10 AM
creativestuart - you are a good man, I've no doubt about that, but dogs are different to people ..... they'll accept affection from absolutely anyone, whereas people are more selective. If you want to find someone through RSVP I suggest you listen to the comments people are making (in perfectly good faith) and take them onboard rather than singing the same tune all the time. We are trying to help you so please accept this help and do something with it.
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 10:02 AM
WNW, some very clever and witty posts! Now I know what the girls mean about your sense of humour! More please!
Jewels how awful. Enough to really dent your self-confidence. One of my major fears in this new dating game, is how can I be sure I can trust my judgement? Your story makes me feel even less confident! Especially as you have been on RSVP for much longer than I have, and you actually have dating experience.
I guess it was hard for your friend to know both of you; did he ever drop a "hint"?
Thank goodness your "gut feeling" kicked in eventually, but it took quite a long time, long enough for you to be hurt.
H2H, yes I think listening to our intuition is most important. Like Jen, despite ignoring or making excuses for my "gut feeling" at times, in the end it has always proven to be right. Ignoring it has got me into much more trouble than listening and acting upon it!
So nowadays, if it doesn't feel right, I don't do it. Conversely, if my intuition tells me there is something not quite right about something, I'll investigate further.
I guess it won't mean an exciting life, but at least I'll be true to me!
Posted by: amberlight58 at August 8, 2008 9:43 AM
Yes, Perth, the Budgerigar Loves Lint Scenario is not sexy,somehow, is it?. How would Marcus feel if a woman followed Woody's advice and whipped out a battery-powered Black and Decker dust cleaner to suck his lint off? I bet you'd see the hand-held tool as a symbolic dildo, Marcus, and think she was just aching to get you in the cot...there's no stopping some people's optimism.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 8, 2008 9:43 AM
iaminperth at August 8, 2008 8:10 AM
I think your puppy has a far better strategy than most of the people on this site!
Greet with warmth
Trust till it is broken
try each person out, no assumptions
and see where the connection comes naturally
What a lovely way to find "the one"
We can all learn from that!
Posted by: creativestuart at August 8, 2008 9:25 AM
"If the pooch wags it's tail you are in.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 10:43 PM"
But what if it wasn't the dog that you actually fancied .... but it's owner? That could be a problem.
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 9:03 AM
No WB I would never be so judgemental with a person on first meet. I am not covered in lint but someone picking at my clothes like a demented budgerigar would turn me right off and I would think they were just extremely rude.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 8, 2008 9:00 AM
"If someone I didn't know started picking at me I would smack them !
Posted by: iaminperth at August 7, 2008 9:42 PM"
That's probably what Marcus wants ..... smack me baby!
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 8:59 AM
Maybe women dating Marcus should carry a re-chargeable mini vacuum cleaner in their handbags. That way they could remove the offending lint without invading his "personal" space. I'm sure there would be many other uses it could be put to as well ..... talk about being prepared.
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 8:55 AM
"What if "he" picks off lint? Does the same rule apply?
Posted by: willow29 at August 7, 2008 4:18 PM"
No way ..... that would make him overly familiar and only after one thing. Ditch him quick smart.
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 8:49 AM
"You could be Lint City and I wouldn't touch you. So there's a tip if we ever meet...which is not likely...but still, come covered in lint and you're safe. Just goes to show we're all different.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 7, 2008 3:16 PM"
What an amusing image ..... reminds me of a current commercial on TV for something.
Posted by: woodnwine at August 8, 2008 8:46 AM
But Marcus, My pooch wags her tail at everyone and she never asks who will pay for the first date. She doesn't discriminate against colour/race/or religion and doesn't even seem to have problems with, well shall we say, the mixed type, not even the purest breeds. She is welcoming in all situations, although sometimes her manners are a little lacking and her kisses far too frequent with complete strangers. One must wonder at times why such a purebred elegant creature would stoop to such levels at times mixing with the obviously disadvantaged and not so elegant, quite disdainful I am sure. However, I will tolerate her minor indiscretions as love conquers all, or so they say.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 8, 2008 8:10 AM
I think that time can help you tell...about a relationship. A few months ago I met a guy, on RSVP, who from the 1st phone call we clicked, we were on the same wavelength, laughed at the same stuff, we got on. We met for drinks, it lasted 3 hours, we had 4 dates in the first 5 days....we clicked both mentally and physically....we were hand holding with in the 1st hour. Everytime we met up, for the next 3 months, there was this chemistry between us......but the thing was doomed...he was still living with the girlfriend he was supposed to have broken up with ...supposedly broke up before he met me!!!!!
BUT...he lied...about a lot of stuff...but he reckons that he wanted me sooo badly that he wrote to me here.....and pursued me.....even though he knew what I wanted IE a relationship.
After the first phone call, when we worked out we both knew a same friend, he called my mate, and my mate told him that "she wants the whole deal, she isn't playing around" both these guys confirmed they had this phonecall!!!.
So he knew about me, he also knew he was not free...he had all the info and he lied and pursued me....when my "gut feelings" kicked in and I worked it out, fully, it was 3 months. so I ended my involvment on a phone call. I have not spoken to him since.
So I was really played....It is a lesson I won't forget in a hurry.
Body language is not reliable...we had heaps of body signals....the whole time...so now if a guy wants to kiss the back of my hand , he will probably get smacked!!!!!!! No touching until my brain works things out...can't rely on my heart or body reactions...just my thoughts on a cold Friday....jewels.
Posted by: junebaby57 at August 8, 2008 7:53 AM
CreativeStuart ~ Nice to see you back.
heart2heart ~ "A quandary full of conundrums." Love that! Intuition is definitely so important. We all need to tune into it much more than we do. I know when I think back, it really was always right. This busy fast paced life we all are immersed in often let's these deeper gut feelings slip by.
Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at August 8, 2008 7:38 AM
Marcus, you won't get "i have never done this before as the car seats get laid back" more like OMG I haven't been parking for absolute years , this is going to be fun!!!!! LOL. No point lying, as...who is going to believe I am a virgin...reborn or not at this age.....( I have kids, been dating for years, been on RSVP for 18 months !!!) you would have to belive in fairies or the virgin mary or something!!!!!! Surely women don't say that now???? jewels
Posted by: junebaby57 at August 8, 2008 7:37 AM
Again, after reading the Intro to this Blog, I find myself in a quandary full of conundrums. Does time tell? Tell what? Time is purely a man-made thing that measures us from our birth time until the time we die. Everything else in between is called 'Life'. As John Lennon so eloquently put it "Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans".
Have we pursued something that was destined to fail? Yes. Have we ditched something that might have blossomed? Who knows? We can only honestly say that we think what we know, but we definitely don't know what we don't know.
Can we tell someone from the first few seconds that we have met them? For sure. There's experience, a mile-long hit-list of yes and no's (subjective). And this thing called a 'gut' (possibly objective?).
An interesting psychological appraisal of a job interview process suggests that you win/lose the job within the first 30 seconds of meeting your panel. Does it work the same when it comes to selecting a potential partner?
If your gut is telling you 'no', while your heart/head/other parts of you body are telling you yes, you'll probably find the gut is closer to the truth.
Why? Good question. There's a purely scientific explanation for this (see 'evolution'), as well as a spiritualistic one (see 'chakra's').
Should we pursue something that our gut instinct tells us not to? You tell me. Have a look at your 'scorecard', and tell me how many times your gut was wrong.
Now, if the gut is pre-empting things and deliberately sabotaging the situation just so it can say to the brain and the heart 'see? I TOLD you so'... that's a whole different ball-game.
Posted by: heart2heart57 at August 8, 2008 2:25 AM
Starryguises August 7, 2008 10:42 PM
The payment rule you mention is the lovely mature compromise that is hard to argue with. It is the ideal way to sort a potentially tricky issue.
That said though, and I'm not Mediteranean but I relate quite strongly to paying for at least initial meals.
I don't feel it is something contrived and manipulative that men have designed to position themselves. It is quite heartfelt, instinctive and strong and is a part of the courtship dance saying 'I can afford feed you now and am able to provide you with the security and comfort should we become a couple and family'. I feel the rejection of the offer more keenly than I ever do the opportunity to save a few bucks even though I realise it is seen as an equality principle.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 11:56 PM
Marcus, did you have to tell everyone!
Posted by: aqueousdb66 at August 7, 2008 11:03 PM
The days of car seats being laid back were in the late 70's and early 80's for me...:-)
My car hasn't got the leg room...:-)
Cheers,
B.
Posted by: bm1960 at August 7, 2008 10:51 PM
auntykaz at August 7, 2008 10:26 PM
Perish the thought of anyone relating actual experiences here Kaz. My observation was of course a hypothetical male blogger who forgot to use his clothes brush.
Poochesinperth August 7, 2008 9:11 PM
A man patting a womans dog (or vice versa) has EXACTLY the same meaning as a lint pick. If the pooch wags it's tail you are in.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 10:43 PM
Lint Test ??? Well they say it's good to learn something everyday...and I have...but it sounds bizarre. In reality, I would think the guy had Dandruff and if anything, it would make me cringe away...LMAO
The Glass Test...well that would not work with me, as I am a left hander. If I sit opposite my date, my glass is always next to my right handed companions glass.
Now the debate of who pays. Well call me an old fashioned gal. I have no problem with my date paying for the meal, especially when they have asked me out for dinner. Do you know, in my culture, with my European background, a fellow Mediterranean man, would be totally insulted, if a woman were to offer money for the meal.
But hey, if we have continued on, for say Coffee and Dessert, or perhaps Cocktails elsewhere, then I have always paid for that, it's only fair.
Posted by: starryeyez at August 7, 2008 10:42 PM
auntykaz at August 7, 2008 10:26 PM
Perish the thought of anyone relating actual experiences here Kaz. My observation was of course a hypothetical male blogger who forgot to use his clothes brush.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 10:39 PM
I don't know how many times I've heard the old 'this is the first time I've ever done anything like this' as the car seats get laid back. All the middle aged reconstituted virgins seem to congregate here...
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 7:49 PM
Marcus, is this just something you have heard or actual experience :-)........
As for lint picking, just make sure you brush your clothes before you go out, then there is no reason for a woman to want to clean you up..................K
Posted by: auntykaz at August 7, 2008 10:26 PM
I guess this topic sort of harks back to an old topic about first instincts.....I have met some lovely people and felt that there was no 'chemistry' but perservered because of the initial interest. In the end, my first instinct has been correct. I am in the process of learning how to hone this first instinct. Again, I sound selfish/self-absorbed, but it is just down to not getting involved with anyone unless there is a reasonable chance it may lead to friendship, at the least. Saves grief all round, I reckon.
Cheers,
B.
Posted by: bm1960 at August 7, 2008 10:26 PM
iaminperth at August 7, 2008 9:11 PM
Cute puppy... your suggestion is quite a lovely one.
The initial awkwardness is the hardest thing to overcome
Unfortunately, and I thisk especially as we get older we aren't involved in activities that have people meeting casually and socially so first meeting - first dates are necessary
Posted by: creativestuart at August 7, 2008 9:55 PM
If someone I didn't know started picking at me I would smack them !
Posted by: iaminperth at August 7, 2008 9:42 PM
kyla3, "or they may be just trying to figure out a way to get the hell outa there because they see you using the "lint test" LOL"
haha, kyla, that made me laugh....
Posted by: malsie at August 7, 2008 9:18 PM
I try to steer away from the coffee stuff, it's all so fake and awkward. I rather go for the walk on the beach with the dog. Nice and relaxing and can meet there. If it's enjoyable there is a coffee shop not so far away if you want to get some, sit outside with the dog in the sun. Very casual, beautiful scenery, very relaxing and doesn't cost anything., Also I think a lot more private in a public sort of way. The dog doesn't mind either as she usually gets lots of pats.
Posted by: iaminperth at August 7, 2008 9:11 PM
I see your point, Marcus, though more likely if I were to be overcome with desire early on in meeting someone, I would try and find out first if they would welcome any physical overture before picking at their clothing in some kind of frenzy....
Posted by: malsie at August 7, 2008 9:08 PM
A lot less thought and a lot more action is needed in all of this!
I would never make a decision on a coffee meeting, I know almost nothing from that brief a meeting.
Two or three dates before actual decision time for me.
Posted by: creativestuart at August 7, 2008 7:49 PM
schmaltsy at August 7, 2008 4:40 PM
Haha. Good on you. You make a big 'its-a-rule' statement about never lint picking or invading personal space then, grinning, you admit to 'exceptions' next sentence.
I don't know how many times I've heard the old 'this is the first time I've ever done anything like this' as the car seats get laid back. All the middle aged reconstituted virgins seem to congregate here...
Another virtue test the more confident or 'sociable' datetress can apply is to sit adjacent or even beside her handsome companion rather than the more formal opposite position. As waterflambe knows it makes a signalling leg rub (or a boob bump) a lot easier.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 7:49 PM
schmaltsy at August 7, 2008 4:40 PM
Haha. Good on you. You make a big 'its-a-rule' statement about never lint picking or invading personal space then, grinning, you admit to 'exceptions' next sentence.
I don't know how many times I've heard the old '...this is the first time I've ever done anything like this..' as the car seats get laid back. All the middle aged reconstituted virgins seem to congregate here...
Another virtue test the more confident or 'sociable' datetress can apply is to sit adjacent or even beside her handsome companion rather than the more formal opposite position. As waterflambe knows it makes a signalling leg rub (or a boob bump) a lot easier.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 7:36 PM
hehe thanks Malsie, romantic thought but I thought maybe "he" was checking up on me or someone else was mucking around. The glass test is interesting!
Posted by: willow29 at August 7, 2008 7:01 PM
Posted by: willow29 at August 7, 2008 2:52 PM
You do that too? Always good for a giggle or two.
Posted by: waterlily58 at August 7, 2008 6:41 PM
It's funny how it's assumed that the lint is even noticed in the first place! Your date may be so interested in you as a future date that they haven't noticed it, or they may be sight impaired, or they may be just trying to figure out a way to get the hell outa there because they see you using the "lint test" LOL
Posted by: kyla3 at August 7, 2008 6:26 PM
:maestrac at August 7, 2008 3:29 PM & WB
I'm with you .. No way will I pick lint off a guy I just met. In fact I'd wonder why he hadnt made a little more effort with the clothes brush before he left home to meet me. I've raised my kids I dont want a mother son relationship with any man but my own son and I dont lint pick him either(maybe suggest he brush himself up LOL)
To follow a system of signs .. you have to be sure the person you are with sees the same symbolism you do for it to be of any use!
As for picking off one anothers plates .. would have to know one another long enough to know it is OK and not annoying them. I'm more inclined to offer a partner a taste of what I'm having for a taste of theirs .. if we know one other well of course. Some people are very territorial about what's on their plate.
Willow the "inactive profile" after stating they are seeing someone else .. suggests they really are seeing someone else and realised they needed to close their profile while doing so. The polite thing to do really! Altho I know the response may not always mean what it says... I prefer to believe it does.
Posted by: waternymph47 at August 7, 2008 5:28 PM
As a follow on from the "lint" test - I just remembered another test I've heard of that is similarly designed to show if someone is attracted to you, which I'd probably be far more comfortable with myself: that's to place your glass or cup near to the other person's glass or cup, and if they seem happy to leave it there, apparently that's a bit of an indication they're interested in you. If they're not, subconsciously they can't help but feel uncomfortable and find some way to move it - by picking theirs up and taking a sip, or whatever.
Posted by: malsie at August 7, 2008 4:46 PM
an interesting body language test, Marcus, but however much I fancied someone, unless I was already in some sort of relationship with them I wouldn't be picking lint off anybody's clothes - it would just seem too invasive of their personal space to me. Now I reflect on it, I think I'm very careful with the whole touching thing with people I barely know (there have been exceptions, though :) )
Posted by: malsie at August 7, 2008 4:40 PM
obviously, willow, if they can't have you, they've decided they don't want anybody - plausible? :)
Actually, as drone was saying recently about all the vagaries of people's lives that we know nothing about and can only conjecture about their reasons, this area of hidden profiles seems to be another one. I've been similarly mystified when it's happened (usually when someone has responded positively to me and the next thing I know the profile is hidden and I can't write to them). Then it always becomes unhidden, and once in contact the reasons for the going into hiding are many and varied - just like the people on rsvp, I suppose!
Posted by: malsie at August 7, 2008 4:36 PM
Welcome Cobbydale - nice smile on your profile :)
What if "he" picks off lint? Does the same rule apply?
Posted by: willow29 at August 7, 2008 4:18 PM
willow29 at August 7, 2008 2:52 PM
Good observations Willow.
I had a date who was a professed Buddhist/Yoga/vegetarian, pinch calamari rings from my plate once. That substituted nicely for the lint test.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 3:42 PM
laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 2:35 PM
The lint test... hmmm, what if she's sitting across a large table.
Ok Marcus
No 1...if she's very young (for the younger guys) she wouldn't even notice the lint, the young ones don't even notice all the dirty clothes on their bedroom floor etc etc.
No 2...young middle aged and has children, yes she's going to pick off the lint, she does it all day long picking up after the kids, one more isn't going to make a difference.
No 3...our age, nope, no way are we going to pick off that lint, picked up after our kids long enough, pick your own lint off.
Posted by: maestrac at August 7, 2008 3:29 PM
Me personally, well I would prefer not to be single...hence RSVP, but, if the meet....does not meet expectations or at least show some promise then end of story. I am on here for the 'right' relationship...not the wrong one or 2nd/3rd. As yet to meet the 'one' but Hey always hopeful!
Posted by: cobbydale at August 7, 2008 3:27 PM
A bit off topic but I think this is a bit strange. During the last month, as I have been distracted, I have replied "is flattered but has recently responded to someone else". Nearly all of these profiles are now inactive. Does that seem odd to anyone else?
Posted by: willow29 at August 7, 2008 3:20 PM
Yes he is a romantic, Woody, we've known that for some time, but what he says is true all the same, calculating though it is. Another 'rule' is, if a woman touches a man's leg...thigh...during the evening, she's likely to go to bed with him fairly soon, but if she only touches his arm, she has decided she might but she won't do it that day.
Marcus the lint thing doesn't work with me, though, because I see picking cotton off a guys shirt as motherly or maybe possessive, so I don't do it. You could be Lint City and I wouldn't touch you. So there's a tip if we ever meet...which is not likely...but still, come covered in lint and you're safe. Just goes to show we're all different.
Posted by: waterbombe at August 7, 2008 3:16 PM
Marcus - you're such a romantic.
Posted by: woodnwine at August 7, 2008 2:52 PM
lol very clever Marcus! What about the chips on your plate test? You can always tell when two people are a "couple" when one picks food from the other's plate. Many a time at a corporate function, me or my ex have kicked each other under the table and given pointed glances at people we now know are having an affair!
Posted by: willow29 at August 7, 2008 2:52 PM
A realtionship as a refuge from singledom? That is my definition of dysfunctional and needy.
If you meet a girl you have been talking to and find her attractive in the flesh and only want a quick connnection or want to quickly determine how long it might take to get the connection you can do the lint-pick test.
You place very small pieces of contrasting color lint- cotton threads will do, on your sleeve, the upper arm of your sleeve, your chest pocket and collar. If after 10 minutes of sitting together the sleeve cuff piece has been picked by your lovely companion chances are she is interested in you physically. If within the hour either or both the collar and breast pocket samples have gone you are in.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at August 7, 2008 2:35 PM
I dont rely heavily on an instant connection, but there has to be some sort of chemical response going on in my brain for me to stay interested.
A coffee is fine but then hopefully there has been some sort of communication beforehand to keep the interest going.
Something funny in the profile followed b y something meaningful in the emails, and then an attraction from the phone calls, be it the voice or something that was said. Hopefully there were no pregnant pauses in the talking and it flowed. By this time there has been something happening, and if the coffee isnt a hit then there has been nothing lost.
That being said, if the person who shows up at the face to face isnt anywhere near the person from the aforementioned chatting etc, then its time to say politely thanks but no thanks and walk away.
At our age we are no longer ten foot tall and bullit prooof and also dont have unlimited time, so to flog a dead horse is a waste of both my time and the other persons.
Movin right along here........................
Posted by: twoeyes at August 7, 2008 2:11 PM
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