RSVP Blog

wraecca: Thanks for the insight into your LDR. It seems indeed that it is working for you. Im sorry about the loss of your father, but how great was it that your partner was able to come down for the funeral. It must have meant a lot for you. Well done, it gives us all hope :)

Posted by: willow29 at July 14, 2008 2:19 PM

Kaz , you are so right I dont know what is going on in my daughter's head and havent really known for the past 10 yrs or more despite doing my best to always let her know she was loved and I was there for her. I can only observe and try to understand.
When she lived at home, her girlfriends often came to me with their troubles because they knew thru her that I was approachable and non judgemental. Funny too that, after she moved to Sydney and shared homes with girlfriends, that she became the same kind of rock for her friends when they all lived together as I'd been for her and her friends.
I too decided to be totally unlike my Mother in that I determined never to smack my 2 kids when reasoning was so much better. Never to have loud murderous brawls with their Father (unlike my Mum and Dad who went at it for hours .. resulting in me sneeking off to my girlfriend's place till it was over. Apparently what my sister learned from that (she used to just go into bedroom close the door and ignore it) was entirely different. She regularly smacked and screamed at her kids .. when she was paying any attention at all. Her 2 daughters left home very early, one is still drifting the other died(drugs) Her remaining daughter is very forgiving but seldom goes home to be treated to the regular moans about when she will produce a grandchild .. not too likely as she is in a same sex relationship and is now 40.

My daughter left home because she wanted to see where her Model training might take her so moved to Sydney. I encouraged her to follow her dreams but keep her feet on the ground(Don't give up the day job) and she did very well at whatever she turned her hand to. I take some credit for the fact that she has grown up with the belief that you can have the courage to have a go at almost anything .. and if you fail .. never mind .. you gave it your best.
Yes I do know my daughter well enough to know that despite her bold brave exterior she does often submerge herself into her relationship .. and that if it all falls apart she will seldom show how devastated she is and just move on .. often too soon.
I often fear that despite my best eforts to do better than my parent's relationship .. I too have moved on too often .. because I have no nice stable family background to look to for confirmation. I too have selected some inapropriate partners over the years .. perhaps because I didnt really know what a good relationship looked like . Probably still don't. I think Ive done my daughter a diservice in the same way my parents did. Who knows .. I'm no expert!

Posted by: waternymph47 at July 14, 2008 1:37 PM

As some people here on RSVP know, I am involved in a LDR. I live in the Central-West region of NSW, he lives in Brisbane. That's around 900kms, or a 9 and a half hour drive.
For us, it is working. It is not easy, but we dedicate time for each other. He travels down over long weekends, I travel up during school holidays. We manage to see each other at least once a month, and yes, we DO hang out for those precious moments.

Regarding the point that hard times are made harder by not having your partner close, they can be difficult. But we talk to each other every night, and frustrating as it can be not to physically have each other there, at least we can give some kind of support.
My grandfather died recently. I was lucky enough to have my partner visiting me when I found out he was dying, unfortunately I was on my own when I was told he had died. The trip to Sydney for the funeral was made more bearable by the knowledge that, not only would I have my family around to grieve with, and my grandmother there to give support to, but my partner was also flying down, taking time off work so that he could be there to support me.

As to the questions posed by RSVP with this topic, I find that you cope with goodbyes knowing that there will be a hello not too far away, and what a hello it will be! Avoiding temptation is standard - I'm not interested because I'm in a relationship. It doesn't matter if I'm living with my partner, or 900 kms away from him, I'm still committed to him, so it doesn't figure into the equation. Phone arguments are few and far between, as are IRL arguments. If you are inclined to argue with someone, then it will happen no matter where you are in relation to each other. With romance, how do you keep it alive in a relationship where you see each other every day, where you live with each other? LDR's have the point that you don't see each other all the time, so you make those times you do see each other extra special. These are questions which I don't think about normally, and don't necessarily 'get' when I do think about them.

Long distance relationships are hard. They take committment and effort to keep them working, just like any other relationship. They will not work for everyone. But for one to work, you need dedication and sacrifice, and the ability to drop everything to go and be with that person. People who have children or other people who depend on them, or have a very rigid and inflexible occupation would probably find this kind of relationship extremely taxing emotionally and financially, and way too exhausting. I think that LDR's are easier for people who do not have those kinds of committments. But that's just me.

M.

Posted by: wraecca at July 14, 2008 1:30 PM

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 13, 2008 7:01 PM
So sorry to have missed your post.I have been away
Here is the information you requested and I am so glad that you liked it http://www.oriah.org/books.html# Please enjoy, as I have

Cheers Szilvia

Posted by: fromheretoeternaty at July 14, 2008 1:17 PM

I did have a long distance relationship (200kms long enough?) where we could only see each other on weekends. Well things where pretty good - we talked every night on the phone for about 4 hours or until one of our cordless phones died. Well the story goes - I couldn't come home one weekend due to work reasons, and a arguement started over the phone. She went out that night, got drunk and took an ex into her bed. Needless to say, I wasn't too impressed over the whole thing, however I did learn something - work should never come first in any account.

Posted by: ddnewcy at July 14, 2008 12:53 PM

Troy - 6.50pm 11/7/08. Said "I often ponder what happens as they get older. Does the perceived bitterness of their lives manifest. These people appear to the community as lovely, giving people yet they direct so much anger and crap at those closest to them."

Troy, I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I can so relate almost exactly with the way you have written this. Amazingly so.

I think there can either be a mellowing of some - perhaps because getting closer to their maker and they think amends need to be made before the inevitable or else the bitterness escalates.

Guess I'm in the same camp as you on this one. Though not estranged. It is what it is. But how I have craved a loving mother/daughter relationship for all these years. I so hope my daughter and I will always have that.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at July 13, 2008 9:25 PM

fromheretoeternaty at 12:25 PM on the 8th: Your sublime quotation made me weep. Thank you very much. More-detailed source please.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 8, 2008 1:00 PM and asked again now, before I head off the tennis.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 13, 2008 7:01 PM

**I tried to post this earlier, but my computer was playing up and I wasn't sure if it actually got through. I apologise if it repeats itself!

Waternymph,
I hope you don't think I was criticising you or comparing you to my own mother! No way! I am sure you have been a great mum and of course you feel you don't deserve to be treated in the way your daughter has treated you.
It's just that I was keen for you to try to open up some dialogue with your daughter and not just dismiss her attitude as a tantrum, or assume you know exactly what she is feeling.
We never know what someone else is really feeling unless we ask them, it is the same for all relationships, not just mothers and daughters.
To assume that we know how someone else will react or thinking that we always know why someone else is reacting or behaving the way they do, is risky in all relationships.
To dismiss your daughter's behaviour as "Oh she always acts this way when......." is you deciding that you know her better than she does herself.
That she is still just a child.
Not a great way to keep communication a two-way adult process and it may actually stop her from wanting to relate to you in a close and loving way in the future.
My ex always assumed he knew exactly what I was feeling and thinking, without ever actually asking me. Our counsellor was quite shocked at how he thought he knew me better than I did myself, when he was so often wrong about me!
It�s not a nice feeling to be constantly second-guessed by someone who really doesn�t know you that well at all!

Troy, it does make you wonder why some people are so angry. I agree, why for some people, is there always a need to "take sides"?
When I was growing up through my parents' god-awful marriage, it was take sides or you barely survived.
I was once shut up in my room for 3 days because I dared to try to correct my mothers' interpretation of events, and committed the terrible crime of "taking your father's side".
Of course, my father was drunk 90% of the time, so had no idea what was going on. You took my mother's "side" or you suffered, it was that simple.
I have tried hard to lose that mentality in my own family, it was hard because my ex has a family who were also always at each others throats. Obviously nothing like mine but "taking sides" seems to have been his family's motto as well.
Consequently when I left my ex.......

Timewarp, Kisskat, Willow thank you for your kind words. Yes, I have made it to be "my mission in life" to be completely different to my own mother.
Not always easy, I have on the odd occasions said things in a stressful or heated moment when arguing with one of my kids, that I wish I could cut my tongue out after saying! Sadly you can't take it back once it is said, but I have always apologised immediately and without excuses (most of the time!).
My mother never had a lot to do with any of my children (thank goodness) she always liked my brother's children better apparently! (poor little buggers!)
When my brother separated from his wife all those years ago, about six months after they separated, my mother and brother had the children come and stay for a week, then (my mother's idea of course!) refused to send them home! There wasn't a custody dispute until she did this!
She screwed with my nephew's head for a few months, then once she realised my brother wasn't going to win, completely lost interest altogether!
So I think my children have been most fortunate missing out on that type of grandmotherly "love"!

Kaz,
It is wonderful that your family have come back together again. It is so sad about your dad though.
I have noticed in some families like in my ex's, when there is a family dispute, that it is often one parent who expects total and complete loyalty from the other, when there is a dispute with the children. The less dominant person will "side" with them, even when they feel really sad and uncomfortable about it.
In my ex's family, it was his mother who expected his dad to always side with her and it was and is, his mother who usually did or said something that started the dispute in the first place!
I hope things keep going well for you all and you keep supporting and caring for each other!

Posted by: amberlight58 at July 12, 2008 8:09 PM

Kaz, we all have a story. Mine today is I'm hung over :-(

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at July 12, 2008 12:28 PM

I wholeheartedly agree Auntykaz - the recent posts have been heartfelt and courageous.

It makes one wonder what a "normal" family is nowadays.

ERAL - I wasn't disagreeing with you :)

Posted by: willow29 at July 12, 2008 9:55 AM

troy, I can understand your reticence to "open up" on here, but thanks for doing so anyway - and as Kaz said, to everyone who has on the subject of family relationships. I too have had "difficulties" but don't feel inclined to go into it. But I understand exactly where you are coming from in what you say, and feel quite strongly that if parents (or siblings) have treated you terribly when you were growing up, you have to protect yourself and withdraw from them. So what if they are "family" - your mental health and emotional stability comes first.
I can't relate to being treated badly by your children, though, so wouldn't know what to make of that. It would be pretty heartbreaking if you know you hadn't done anything to provoke it, I should imagine.

Posted by: malsie at July 12, 2008 9:49 AM

"Friends are the family that we choose for ourselves" - one of my fridge magnets.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 12, 2008 9:21 AM

I have to say that some of the posts here have been so heartfelt and insightful into the tortured relationships that some families have.

Amberlight, your story is truly sad, that your mother treated you like she did is unbelievable, and to have your steady sense of self is commendable.

Waternymph, fractured relationships with our children are so often very hard to handle, coming as they do from our bodies, and l am glad that my children and l have great relationships, sure we have our moments and our arguments but the relationship does not suffer because of our differences, more it is strengthened.

Troyboy, similarly the relationship with both your parents, how is it that parents can be so hostile and unwelcoming of their children ??......

That my brother and parents had not spoken for 3 years before dad died was nothing in comparison to the stories that you have shared, they just didn't speak, none of the hostility that we have read of.....

My brother and mother reconciled the night my father died, unfortunately it took that for them to come together, but we cannot change what has happened, he is gone.

Funnily enough, my mother and sister were not able to be involved in organising dad's funeral their upset and emotion prevented them from doing so, so my brother and l did that together and it has been the cornerstone of our close relationship since.

They do say you can't choose your family, but boy it would be better sometimes if you could.....................K

Posted by: auntykaz at July 11, 2008 11:37 PM

troyohboy at 6:50 PM: Good on you mate, then and now. Guessed you'd be like that.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 11, 2008 9:59 PM

Posted by: amberlight58 at July 11, 2008 2:33 PM

great post amberlight!

there are always two sides to every story.

Posted by: kisskat at July 11, 2008 7:34 PM

Okay ..Dear, kind, concerned people .. some clarity here on the Mother Daughter thing.
Ive raised my kids alone since she was 12 and her brother 9 with no input, little money and even less interest from their Father who lives in Switzerland.
My daughter left home at 17 to move in with her first boyfriend. I didnt like it, but determined not to lose her over it and even when she quit going to College and I got hit with a bill because she'd been receiving Auststudy and they wanted it back when she stopped studying .. we worked it thru and dealt with it without too big a drama.
I was also there for her often late at night when the boyfriend got abusive and she needed rescuing. This went on for 3 yrs .. then she moved back in (for 6 months) with me and her brother( had to move to a larger 3 bedroom place again to accomodate her). Before the 6 months was up and before she'd coughed up what she owed in rent and utilities she was off again .. this time with a girlfriend to move to Sydney. I was working then and could cope with the finacial hassles and did so! Her brother continued to stay with me up till about 3 yrs ago when he moved out by himself and then a year ago moved to Vietnam to marry his lady love . He was always the quiet one .. no real trouble and very supportive emotionally and finacially. Slack as most guys in their 20s can be but in general a lot easier to deal with.
Ive never laid a guilt trip on anyone .. certainly not them ... and even did my best to keep contact open with there father but left it mostly to them as they got older.
We were the envy of her girlfriends because we could always talk to one another about anything and if it were up to me that is still the case.
However .. it seems to be a pattern over the years that whoever she is in a relationship with becomes her whole world! So if she was with someone who had a good realtionship with his mother .. so did she .. if she was with a man who was a bit irritated or off hand with his Mother .. as seems to be the case now .. so is she!
Her partner made the mountain out of the molehill here by complaining that I let him down when he had things all set up with his mate re the car. Never mind that they neither of them for one minute took into account that I have special needs when it comes to a car and this car fitted none of those requirements.
As for the grocery shopping . once a fortnight and .. even then it was just getting those things I cant get by myself locally.
A lot of it was one off too as I needed to set up home again after the move.
I'm quick and efficient .. see no reason to dawdle and I'm aware of her and baby's needs and time constraints.Tho he is no trouble at all and in fact a very sociable baby as well as being easily amused.
I'm also a very easy going and gentle Granny who seems to manage to have a very calming affect on her Grandson.
As we shopped I also always added in anything she needed along with my shopping and offered something towards petrol.
I have been responsible for myself since I was 14 , when my mother died and I took on her roll caring for my Father and older sister.
I may have a few physical impairments at 60 but I'm never going to be anyones responsibility other than my own.
I wont cave in to her just because she's thrown a "Tanty". It didnt work for her at 3 and it wont work for her now. I might add that I never smacked either of my kids while raising them.
Your right (thankyou) TW I do not deserve it. In time I will come back to her if only via my Grandsaon and No I wont carry on about this incident any more than I have past ones.
Nevertheless .. I'm only human .. and I still would happily take the bus to visit once a week ...or as often as I'm allowed .. to spend time with her and my Grandson. Meranwhile I'm keeping the car money in the bank and adding to it when I can and eventually might find a car that suits my needs not someone elses. Till then .. nothing wrong with the Bus!
Thank you all for your concern .. but yes ,, the fear of dieing alone is something we all carry to some degree!

Posted by: waternymph47 at July 11, 2008 7:00 PM

Thank you so much Willow, for your kind thoughts. Much appreciated!

Posted by: amberlight58 at July 11, 2008 6:51 PM

Posted by: amberlight58 at July 11, 2008 2:33 PM

Amber, I often ponder what happens to people as they get older. Does the percieved bitterness of their lives manifest. These people appear to the community as lovely, giving people yet they direct so much anger and crap at those closest to them. It is interesting to me that my mother chose to attack me over a relationship I was in where the woman I was with was in conflict with my sister. She chose to side with my sister but why did there have to be sides? I won't go into all the rubbish except to say, hand on my heart, I was the innocent party and that I attempted on three different occasions to resolve the issue only to be rebuffed. As an aside to kaz, my view is similar to amber's that I gave so much and I no longer have any feeling for my mother. That is sad. As a further aside it is further of interest that my father was a dick and he died 2 years ago, alone, and was not found in his unit for nearly 4 weeks so was a mess. I had always said to my sister, who I'm in business with that I would have nothing to do with the old boys funeral when he went as I believe the way he treated my older brother led to my brothers death at 42 from cancer. Not to mention the destruction of his self esteem and life prior to his death. I told my father when I was twelve I would knock his block off if he stepped outside, how ridiculous is a man that backs down to a twelve year old. By the way he had spent years taunting my older brother as too gutless to step outside with him so it was not a decision not to have a crack at a child just a disgusting bullies cowardice when I confronted him. I returned to Sydney and buried the old bastard.
Always thought i would say nothing on here as you leave yourself open to attack....cripes, next I'll be empathising with tassietwohead......

Next post I'll have a crack at someone.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at July 11, 2008 6:50 PM

Amber at 2.33pm: You poor darling, at all ages!

Your mother is a textbook case of Projection. An insult is usually a self-description, and in Brisbane, 8-year-old girls put it this way: "Whatyousay iswhatyouare!"

Read back through your post with that in mind. Reassure yourself that you have always been the victim of her self-loathing, projected onto you so that it wasn't her who was at fault.

The foetus is not the cause of the mother's adulterous lust, but it can be the victim, as you have been.

Be comfortable about keeping her viper tongue away from your throat forever, and make sure that the cycle of emotional abuse (often a family tradition) stops dead in its tracks with her.

Probably good that your younger children haven't been exposed to her. Confront her memory with ongoing examples of what a good mother does for her kids' morale!

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 11, 2008 5:01 PM

Posted by: willow29 at July 11, 2008 2:00 PM

Well, who teaches the children to behave like that ? (through rewards, or punishment of their behavior, rather than patient support and guidance... )

Its all about having fun, not fight.

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at July 11, 2008 4:27 PM

Amber, I feel for you. How truly awful for you. My ex had an unreconcilable relationship with his mum and I really do understand why you feel the way you do. Congratulations on becoming stronger and knowing you ARE a lovely, feminine lady.

I would never want to say something negative about someone's mum but I think you were a convenient scapegoat for her misgivings and mistakes. Thank goodness you decided that you were not going to be any longer. In the end you have to do what's best for you and your children.

ps if she was still married, you weren't illegitimate - not that it matters nowadays anyway :)

Posted by: willow29 at July 11, 2008 3:45 PM

Wow, that last post didnt look anything like what I wrote - it was the reply to ERALs, in which I wrote "Unfortunately for some, it is"

and to Timewarp - that yes, tit for tat is schoolyard behaviour.

Posted by: willow29 at July 11, 2008 3:33 PM

ERAL at 1.17pm: Another serving of good sense from you, mate. You seem to be making a habit of it. Good on you.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 11, 2008 3:11 PM

WN,
I tend to agree with TW, maybe your daughter feels guilty and "responsible" for you.
You did move to NSW to be close to her, which she probably really did appreciate intially, but she may now feel guilty that you have to use the bus to visit her (and maybe unknowingly you say things that trigger her guilt).
Maybe she thought you getting your own car, would enable you to be more independent. After all you are still a relatively young person at ?61 by today's standards.
Then you could do the groceries on your own and when you do see her do more "fun" things together like meeting for coffee and maybe shopping for clothes.
She may need to be reassurred that you are going continue to remain independent for as long as possible, live your own life and not rely on her too much.
She may feel that offering her money or helping with paying for things is your way of making her feel obligated to you.
You may not mean it that way, but she may well FEEL that way.
(Maybe you need to really try to understand how she is feeling and why she is feeling the way she feels; it may seem crazy to you, but unless you make an attempt to understand and not "judge" her, things may just get worse!)

My own mother and I are estranged and have been so for many years.
She has never met my two younger children.
I used to feel guilty, but I don't any more.

About 9 months ago, she rang me up "out of the blue" apologising for having blamed me all these years for the difficulties my brother had with child custody some 15 years ago!!
Apparently it was my ex's fault; according to my mother he told her that I was telling my ex sister-in-law when the court cases were! Besides the fact I had no idea about what was even going on, even if my ex (who according to my mother was far too good for me) had said such things, why would a mother choose to believe them!
The thing is that my whole life my mother always chose to believe the worst about me and make me feel guilty, ablout everything.
I was the reason she had been "forced" to stay with my father (I found I was illegitimate when I was 20; apparently she was still maried to her previous partner when I was born!), I was "never going to be any good" even my paternal grandmother thought so.
As I became a teenager, my mother was the one who called me "fat", "ugly", "slut" (from the time I was 18, even though I didn't have sex until I was 20). I had "balls" (and she didn't mean it in a nice way!) was "unfeminine", you name it any time I seemed to be gaining a tiny bit of self-esteem she was there to bring me down to "reality"!
When I met my ex, I was living in another small town and she lived about 50 kms away. She wote a letter to my sister who was still living in country Victoria, and coined a unique and new phrase about me in her letter. I was "fast, fat and loose" according to my mother, apparently I had become the "town bike".

Despite all this, I really tried. Eventually around 18 years ago I decided I had had enough.
I just stopped sending her cards, phoning her. I just couldn't do it any longer.
I just felt "numb" and just decided the best way to cope was to just excise her out of my life!
I suppose her attempt to try to "reconcile" with me is because she is now 74, she is not getting any younger.
However, nothing has changed, she still dramatises everything, nothing is ever her fault as she is the permanent victim, she still tells bald-faced and cruel lies about people and she still has a tongue like a viper.
I just can't do it. I finally have learned to feel good about myself (still a little fragile at times) no matter what happens to her, I just can't do it.
I know it sounds very cruel, but for me my mother "died" many years ago. I have done my grieving about the mother/daughter relationship I would have loved to have had, it is now finished.
To go back and try to reinstate my relationship with her, would put all all that I have achieved psychologically at risk.
Sometimes it can just be too late.

Posted by: amberlight58 at July 11, 2008 2:33 PM

ERAL>>But, is that momentary relief from our insatiable carnal hunger really worth the all the emotional prelude and sub-drama in our lives ? >But anyone who's into tit-for-tat is too petty to be worth a minute of your time. <<

True - its such schoolyard behaviour.

Posted by: willow29 at July 11, 2008 2:00 PM

>>I have been hung out to dry a few times<<

Posted by: jogalonga at July 11, 2008 11:22 AM

Joga, then why keep doing the same things then, if you expect or want a different outcome ?

Many people seem to only know how to play 'cat and mouse' with a partner, with all that frustration becoming the fire that boils their emotions up to that 'perfect moment' of sexual tension ...rather like water for chocolate.

But, is that momentary relief from our insatiable carnal hunger really worth the all the emotional prelude and sub-drama in our lives ?

If we only behave in ways that are trans-active, rather than playfully interactive, we will always be left with a bill at the end, (as well as feel the continuously need to keep score, so we know when the perfect moment arrives to ask for our 'raise') ...what a drag.

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at July 11, 2008 1:17 PM

Two ways to approach life - open and generous, or closed and tight-pursed. (Well, tight-somethinged.)

My family values are the former. That's what I grew up with, and a tad of despising those who are the opposite, for being the enemies of civilisation and universal mutual bliss.

For making other people's lives miserable, as well as their own.

Now that I know those people are like that because someone has hurt them badly, somewhere down the track, I extend the hand of friendship anyway. But if they bite it, I then keep my distance. There are enough nice people in the world, not to need to bother with tha nasty ones.

Joan (my ex) had the same rule for relatives as friends: they qualify themselves for your attention by being noticeably nice to you. I thought that was a bit reactive. Why not be the one who makes the first effort?

But anyone who's into tit-for-tat is too petty to be worth a minute of your time. Next!!

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 11, 2008 1:08 PM

Troyboy a serious question....which of course you do not have to answer, l am just curious....

What if something happened to your mum......And l don't mean if she died, just say she was in a serious accident, would you go to see her ??...............K

Posted by: auntykaz at July 11, 2008 12:35 PM

I have only once been so angry with someone that I refused to talk to them. Then the week afterwards, I saw her in the shopping centre and forgot I was cross and waved to her.

Posted by: willow29 at July 11, 2008 12:11 PM

Posted by: waternymph47 at July 10, 2008 6:16 PM

Hi WN, I offer no advice as you, and your daughter, are the only one's who know the full story. Most people hate mind games and I agree with those who disagree with TW. I would only suggest that the car is the straw that broke the camels back and there are other issues to be discussed and resolved. But you would know this I suppose however I do empathise. My sister had issues with our mother due to her busy life, transport issues etc and they continue. I can't comment as I have not spoken to my mother for about 3 years so how would I have any answers haha.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at July 11, 2008 12:04 PM

Grego - I think Mildura is always warmer than Melbourne, and at the moment I am extremely grateful! At least with a wood heater you warm up twice - once with the chopping :)

The river level has dropped dramatically. One of my dogs thought he was leaping off a bank onto grass and it was really exposed river weed. He sunk up to his belly in sticky black mud.

Its still very beautiful though and lots of "treasures" have been exposed!

Posted by: willow29 at July 11, 2008 11:48 AM

Not a good idea Timewarp, I have been hung out to dry a few times and all it does is drive a wedge between people a real turnoff in romance.
For instance , last week i could not date a lady,so i told her,I was sick which i was,she wanted to come up and do some work for me, I said no, I am too sick to be fun.
This week I am feeling ok ,and would like to see her, but now she is too busy to see me .
She is letting me stew for a while, but it will have a serious negative affect on my feelings towards her as now I know it is a kind of emotional retaliation for denying her the previous week.

Posted by: jogalonga at July 11, 2008 11:22 AM

Posted by: willow29 at July 10, 2008 4:59 PM

Willow, Tell me Mildura has been warmer than Melbourne this week. I love this old town but during winter it really strains the friendship.

The north west coast of Tas has a milder climate than Melbourne especially if you stick to the coast. From our lounge room we could watch the whales just off shore. In fact after a while we became quite blase about them.

Have not been to Mildura in many many years. It is a very nice place.What is the river level like now?

This is totally off topic but dying alone and family estrangements are a bit depressing. Done the latter and probaly will one day face the former. rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at July 11, 2008 11:03 AM

Kaz at 9.12am: I was only thinking to wait a month or two - then if still no contact, WN could phone and say "Haven't heard from you for a while - you all OK?" And don't offer at that phonecall to see them. It's only to get back in touch. Softly softly catchee daughter.

WN, I have a suspicion your daughter may be significantly time-stressed, and driving you around always reminded her of that. And she may be very fast through the supermarket - unless you're there, dawdling along and enjoying the togetherness.

Your offering to help with groceiy bill or petrol puts a financial dimension on the visit, which she may see as patronising on your part.

Or she might just prefer you to save her the time driving you around, rather than have you offer to pay her to do it. Her pride and her current life stresses will be in there somewhere.

If she's battling, she may be uncomfortable about you knowing about it, and if she's not, she may have been going to give the friend your money, and some of hers too. Which she may have handed over already. The friend may be in a financial hole, and she was hoping to help you both out. You never know all this stuff, if you're not both open and honest with one another, all the time.

Maybe you can chat with your grand-daughter on the phone, and/or use public transport to visit them at their home.

Maybe babysit the granddaughter while the daughter gets off the chain for a while - anything rather than bleep!! grocery-shopping together!

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 11, 2008 10:21 AM

Timewarp, leaving people to stew is sometimes not a good idea.....

My brother had a difference of opinion with my mum, and my dad took my mums side (as he probably felt compelled to).
My brother, mother and father did not speak for 3 years...... until the night my father died.
Brother and father never got to resolve their differences, which is a real pity, as both are / were part of a loving family until something silly ruined it, or should l say, pride got in the way.
My brother has that on his head, so to speak that he did not resolve things with dad, and l know he regrets it intensely 15 years later..........K

Posted by: auntykaz at July 11, 2008 9:12 AM

waternymph47 at 6:16 PM: Elder abuse can start earlier than your age. Just shows they value their friend more than you, and lost face with the friend when they failed to dud you with the overpriced bomb.

Berne calls that 3-handed game "Let's pull a fast one on Joey."

One time I felt that I was being undervalued, I wrote the affirmation:

If they don't appreciate you,
they're not worth one minute
of your time.

Leave them to stew a while. And when your daughter eventually gets back in touch, be a teensy bit haughty. You're quality, and worth far better treatment than that.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 10, 2008 11:33 PM

Oh waternymph that is such a sad story and it breaks my heart to hear such things. I don't understand how someones children can be so hurtful. I would suggest giving in to your daughter and doing whatever she asks but then again that may be just as detrimental to your relationship. Perhaps giving her some time to come around however time can cause things to fester.
I wish I knew what to say.
I had a friend who recently got into an argument with another friend. Both parties became very angry with one another over lets just say a difference of opinion. Both are extremely stubborn. I suggested to one friend "why don't you just say sorry"? He replied "because I'm not, I'm right". A few days later my friend bit his pride and did indeed say sorry. The other guy just said "you have noting to be sorry about". Both parties have been on talking terms since.
I hope this helps you have my very best wishes.
Lots of love Rod

Posted by: tassiedude1 at July 10, 2008 11:06 PM

Sad that the old lady died alone and that she didn't see her daughters TD......
Isolation among the elderly is probably more common than is realised...............K

Posted by: auntykaz at July 10, 2008 8:11 PM

So right Tassiedude.. none of us want to end up 86(or any age) alone .. ignored by kids and die with no one to notice but a neighbour .. and even then it could take a while before the body is discovered.
I moved to NSW a few months ago, with fond thoughts of spending more time with daughter and grandson .. instead of just seeing her for a week or so at Xmas.
At first when I arrived here I saw her once a week then once a fortnight and then even that seemed a chore because even tho I'd take the bus to her place and we'd shop together on my way home and I'd either buy her groceries or give her fuel money she didnt want to do that. She insisted I buy a car and organised for me to buy their friend's car. I backed out of the deal with 24 hrs notice but they got mad at me and have not spoken to me since

I keep a lovely "Reference" she wrote for me when I was applying for a job with foster kids some years back, in a frame on my dressing table. The way she described me in the reference is a far cry from the nasty email I got from her 2 weeks ago telling me I was an inconvenienc with no consideration for the trouble I caused by not buying the car they picked for me.
I still dont understand her current attitude and nothing I can say will change that till she is ready to, so no point me pushing her.
I've done a lot of Volunteer work in recent years visiting with elderly people in nursing homes because their own family are too busy with their own lives to bother ... and sometimes being the last person to hold their hand or talk to them.
I had to give it away after getting attached to and losing some lovely old people and wondering why their own kids could not find time for them.
Hope I don't end up the same way !

Posted by: waternymph47 at July 10, 2008 6:16 PM

grego7
It's the juice man! $1.70 per ltr. Just cant afford it anymore. Lol:)

Posted by: tassiedude1 at July 10, 2008 5:01 PM

Tasmania looks wonderful. For me it was either Tassie or Mildura and a job came up here first. I understand your dream, Tassie, don't give up on it.
That's awful about your neighbour but then there was someone who cared about her to find her. That's a small mercy.
Take care of your mum, she will always love you.

Posted by: willow29 at July 10, 2008 4:59 PM

Hi guys.
I have only just returned to Tassie after spending seven years in QLD. Prior to that one year in Melb (great city by the way. Lots of girls:)). Tried to do the music thing but failed.
Right now not really looking to move as Tassie is indeed such a beautiful place (sorry malsie I do need to learn to keep my mouth shut!). I also have committed to a few things down here.
My mum is getting old and I did make quite a big promise to her. I know it's a big sacrifice but that's not the only reason for staying. Just the other day someone did say that I need to sort my s#*t out before I look for true love again. Maybe not such bad advice.
Also I still dream of having my little seaside cottage, catching a few fish, tending the garden, maybe a dog and some chickens. The music scene down here is the best I have ever seen. Every little pub and cafe' has some live music. Very good for original material. I can rock up on a Sunday somewhere and plug in and play a few tunes.
However there is still a need and want for love and if I did indeed find the right person and we could come to some sort of mutually agreeable arrangement then I definitely would consider other options. If she liked horses then I might just have to buy a bigger block of land:).
As for the action thing, man, even my friends seem to have ditched me. It's ok to go and have a poker night with the boys or play golf or something but otherwise I don't seem to get an invite anywhere. I know I can get a little obnoxious on the fizz so now I just don't drink as much or just drink lights. It really is quite weird and spending too much time stuck down here in my little unit is in actual fact quite detrimental. Thank goodness for you guys:).
Just as a quick side track.
My next door neighbor died the other night. She was eighty six, alone and her three daughters hadn't spoken to her for some time. She was found by another neighbor who usually takes her shopping on a Tuesday. To me that is a horrifying concept and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Lots of love Rod

Posted by: tassiedude1 at July 10, 2008 4:14 PM

maestrac, thankyou.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at July 10, 2008 2:24 PM

kaz, you never get my humour either....

Posted by: thelynathdiary at July 10, 2008 2:23 PM

Grego, glad you've come out of "lurking" again!

Yes, Tassie is great and I too frequently look to Melbourne for my victims... I mean possible contacts... and have been pleasantly surprised how many are happy to respond positively.

Posted by: malsie at July 10, 2008 2:22 PM

Tassiedude,
You live in the best state in the federation. Targetting Victorian women would open up a much larger market for you.

I think Waterbombe may be right in that your looks could be intimidating to a lot of girls. Lets face it you look a pretty good sort of catch. And your blogging indicates you are a decent bloke.

Bang out lots of kisses to Victorians especially those in the regional areas and be prepared to spend a bit on stamps.

I lived in Penguin for a few years. 25 years ago Tassie was a bit isolated but with internet and cheap airfares it is now a very desirable part of the world.

Good luck and stick at it. rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at July 10, 2008 1:17 PM

Cannot lurk anymore. So some comments:

LDRs. they say distance makes the heart grow fonder but in reality its the last six inches that count.

Had a wonderful LDR with a cane farmers daughter once ( the only girl I ever proposed to ... she said no but that is another story) She woud write lovely long letters and in one she said " here I am alone on my bed thinking of you Gregory and knowing that your bed is not as lonely" and guess what...she was right.

Last year my 20 year old daughter got into an LDR with a Sydney boy and things started to go wrong. How could I tell her that he is a 22 yo bloke who is probalby bonking some other chicky bird. But he did not have to tell her on her 21st birthday. That was poor form.

Old dads always remember what they did to other blokes daughters and hope like hell it wont happen to theirs but I guess it does.

Once rode my motorbike from Melbourne to Cairns to see above mentioned cane farmers daughter. You do those things when you are young.

Would drive maybe 20 minutes now. Gee its great when you get to 50+ and the hormones dont rattle so much that you can actually use one's brain. rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at July 10, 2008 12:48 PM

tassiedude1, ssshh.... don't encourage too many people here - we don't want to sink...

Posted by: malsie at July 10, 2008 11:10 AM

No LDRs in Tassie, but few choices as well, Tassiedude, by the sound of it. Would you consider contacting women in Melbourne?...some people will move if the relationship is good enough, especially if they are in their thirties. THat's young enough to start again.

I had a thought, too, about the "lots of looks but no talk" you get from women...you're a good looking bloke, and that will be attracting the looks, but perhaps the women are thinking "he's not in my class, so he would give me the brush off" sort of thing....from your posts, I can see you're not like that , but a woman who has just noticed you won't know that. I think the really good looking people often need to make the first (very friendly) move that says "I am not arrogant, I am a nice person, and I'd like to talk to you". You'll need to keep it up for 10-15 mins until the woman gets some confidence that you are not a conceited bloke.

BTW, 25 years is long enough to get over anything, Maestrac. What that experience has left me with is the realisation that these things do happen...they shouldn't, and they generally don't, but occasionally they do. It's a fact of life.

Posted by: waterbombe at July 10, 2008 11:04 AM

Rodna, this is my last post on the topic.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at July 9, 2008 9:50 PM

yay!!!

Posted by: troyohboy at July 10, 2008 10:54 AM

Lynath, not sure why you think that l always think you are wrong, l have posted several times that l agree with what you have to say, just not in this case. And agree the last one for me also................K

Posted by: auntykaz at July 10, 2008 12:15 AM

Feel like a turtle sticking his head out. Hope it doesn't get cut off.
You guys should all move to Tassie. No such thing as a LDR down here. 40 minutes to the east coast. 30 minutes to the south and 120 minutes to the north. Any further than that and you might just fall straight off the edge of the planet. Hell you can go snow boarding and surfing on the same day. Just remember to bring your ugg boots....

Posted by: tassiedude1 at July 10, 2008 12:15 AM

Virgil...they were great with my son at that hospital with my son when he was burned.
Look,lynathdiary............knock off the "couldn;t be helped" business.
My anger is with the treatment....that could have been helped.
She died of scepsia.Enchephalomyolitis,contracted 6 weeks after remission by the way,Her tumour had not grown back.In Intensive care for 4 months,twice found lying in her own cold secretions.Now comon....tell me another excuse.
Let me remind you that there are many people walking around that shouldn't be because they were told their odds were impossible.
You are clinical in your responses.People don't generally warm to this....

Posted by: musicteacher at July 9, 2008 10:34 PM

waterbombe. You have appointed yourself moderator it seems.
I have not posted in order to help Rodna move past anything, as only she can do that in her own time and only if she really wants to.
I read the article (mentioned and directed to by Rodna herself )and felt need to do a bit of critical analysis of the situation and post some balance because of unfair reaction on the blogs. I considered that this situation did not happen last week but years ago, so therefore not insensitive to mention a few realities.
You mention the word damage...what about the possible damage that such stories may be doing to people CURRENTLY finding themselves in similar situations?
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story perhaps?
My intention was not to 'advise'nor patronise Rodna but I did mention a few positive ideas which people in general find helpful in these situations and gave her some kind emapthetic support I believe.
tina xox I am sorry you got caught in the anger when you only offered kindness and an attempt to distract.
I believe we can have faith in an overall good medical system in this country and also in a good and fair legal system.
Kaz, you always think I am wrong, ..however I again disagree with you...perhaps even more in this case.
I am surprised that you say "circumstances that should not have occurred." It was an inavoidable act of nature that occurred to cause the loss.
Rodna, this is my last post on the topic.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at July 9, 2008 9:50 PM

I can sympathise with Music teacher for her teagic experience with doctors from the Westmead hospital.
My son was involved in a hit and run accident while walking across the road last November, and he was treated by doctors at the Westmead hospital.
I felt the treatment given to him was first class, and have only praise for the wonderful treatment he received at Westmead.

Posted by: virgil at July 9, 2008 9:38 PM

Thelynathdiary, I understand what you were saying to musicteacher and I am in agreement with your down to earth advice, but when people are so distraught and angry, there is no way on this earth that they will listen let alone take your advice.
To Waterbombe, bullying is not acceptable in any situation.
It sounds like you are still angry from your experiences all those years ago and are taking out your frustrations on all those long gone "do gooders" in your defense of Rodna

Posted by: maestrac at July 9, 2008 9:35 PM

I have had a LDR at 19 that failed, recently 2 have failed.

HMMM is there a trend here?

Posted by: virgil at July 9, 2008 9:03 PM

Waterbombe, no l haven't been in a long distance relationship and really do not know what l would classify as long distance....
Maybe over an hours drive ??
Very much a creature of habit and location, me, but you never know do you......
If l venture into the cbd it is often done by train, l find that l can just hop on it, put the ipod on, read a book and poof! there l am, as opposed to mindless traffic..........
I do drive to parts of Melbourne if required, such as Brunswick and surrounding areas, as l don't do trams and haven't been on one in years.....l used to catch the tram to school when when we lived in Carlton as a youg girly and l think that is the last time l was on one........
So l guess if Mr Perfect were to pop up in my message box, and he lived further than l prefer, l may have to rethink my strategy...............K

Posted by: auntykaz at July 9, 2008 8:08 PM

Ok AuntyKaz I agree, let's get off the topic.

Who has got a LDR at the moment ...anyone? How is it going? Or, if you had one and it worked, how come? AuntyKaz, have you ever had one? If not why not? :-)

Posted by: waterbombe at July 9, 2008 6:05 PM

Is this the wider perspective as looked at by the bigger person, Marcus?

Posted by: waterbombe at July 9, 2008 5:25 PM

Lynath, sorry but l think you are wrong.
Sure you can change peoples thinking on issues but in this case, and specifically this case,
Rodna's feelings and thoughts are very very personal and come from a great depth of grief and loss.
She has lost her child in circumstances that should not have occured.
I for one cannot imagine what she has been through, even though she has told us.

Walk a mile in her shoes and then see what it would do to us, how we would react, think and feel..
Rodna has stated she would like to get off this topic, and l think we should respect that....................K

Posted by: auntykaz at July 9, 2008 12:00 PM

Tina..........

I don't appreciate your patronising statements.Don't be such a lazy Tina,and read through the posts.....I have tried to stop this topic abd i am sorry it has put a dent in your day.

Posted by: musicteacher at July 9, 2008 10:59 AM

Waterbeetle, I don't give a rats what you think about my post. I'm not looking at it from Rodna's point of view, (and I'm sympathetic to it), only she can do that and you can wring your hands in a simulation. I'm looking at it from a wider perspective.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at July 9, 2008 10:26 AM

Waterbombe......you clearly have insight into all of this.

Lynathdiary.....please stop.Thanks but no thanks to your advice.

Let's get off the topic.

Posted by: musicteacher at July 9, 2008 9:29 AM

Tinaxox, I don't think you can keep a LDR going if that's the way you start out...there's too much against it surviving. I know people meet up with RSVP interstaters with the hope of meeting "The One" , which is part of the problem. I don't think there is a "one" myself, I think we can be happy with lots of people...as someone said recently on these blogs, we could be unhappy with millions of people, so how come we can be happy with only one?

But if you have a strong relationship, it can last through separation. One of the best things is Skype....being able to talk and see each other talking makes a HUGE difference. That way you can talk over the day to day issues and actually see how your partner is feeling. Then you miss the cuddles and sex but you can survive that for a while.

btw I have a hidden profile because I am in a relationship, I am 55, female, and in Melbourne.

Posted by: waterbombe at July 9, 2008 8:59 AM

Marcus, you have clearly never had kids...in my opinion your post is very hurtful to Rodna. Have a look at your words again from the point of view of someone who has lost a child...not from your own point of view. Put yourself in Rodna's shoes as far as you can for a moment. Same for Lynath. 25 years ago I went through something like this and I lost count of the number of righteous people defending the system, loony new agers telling me I 'deserved' it and must have 'bad karma' from a previous life (seriously said, too, in an effort to 'help me move on'), and useless professionals with plenty of textbook knowledge but no personal experience and no desire to listen to any. In 25 years, there have been 3 professionals who were helpful...the rest were in it for the occupational therapy for themselves, but they should have stuck with the basket weaving for all the use they were. There is a lot of platitudinous pointless advice offerred by the inexperienced professional on this subject, nd that is what I think you are getting here, Rodna.

Guys if Rodna wanted your help to 'move past' this, wouldn't she directly ask you for it? The rest of us aren't trying to help her move past it, because that would be patronising. She will move on when she is ready, not when anyone else thinks it is appropriate. No one ever moves 'past' it anyway, they learn to deal with it, and accept it, but it takes years to reach that stage. Read about the stages of grief when a child is lost, that will tell you how long it takes.

Anyway, Rodna seems more than capable of handling your comments. I don't know how you do it Rodna, I wouldn't discuss it with people of such insensitivity. If you were present, Lynath, I would leave the room, thus denying your right to 'free speech' I suppose. You have a right to talk, of course, but no one has an obligation to listen. So you can have your free speech, but it may well fall on deaf ears because of its quality, as in this case.

BTW Lynath, this has been my name for yonks, so you must have me confused with someone else.

Posted by: waterbombe at July 9, 2008 8:47 AM

Rodna, I am sorry for your loss and, as a mother, cannot imagine the pain you are feeling. However, I have to agree with a previous comment that, although there is a definite need to address the situation and talk through your feelings, this is not the forum. Your very personal situation has, in effect, become a public debate under a topic titled 'Long Distance Relationship' and, without meaning to sound rude or dismiss this tragedy, we strangers got on here to discuss dating matters and the topic at hand - not be drawn into a debate about someone's very painful loss. Do you have close friends/family with whom these conversations would be better held face to face or on the phone?
____________________________

So... anyone actually got ideas on how to manage along distance relationship?

Posted by: tinaxox at July 9, 2008 8:43 AM

Rodna the gag orders you talk about seem more like common confidentiality and privacy laws which are there to protect all involved, including you.I don't think they were only applied to your hearing.

Waterbombe(is that your name this week?) I do not mind someone opposing my viewpoint, but I do object to your bully"let's gang up" tactics in order to prevent freedom of speech and discussion on a public blog.
What damage has been done exactly.in your opinion? Rodna is capable of making up her own mind about what she says or doesn't say on a blog.I have thought and asked questions, and have offered Rodna some positive views, not just more handwringing. She doesn't need that.

Kaz I absolutely disagree with your statement " and nothing anyone can say, be it positive, negative or otherwise, will ever make you feel any different....."
if you believe that then you have given up hope and belief in life and human spirit and resilience.
Words are very powerful and they definitely have, and can change people, thinking and situations from individuals to populations of countries.

Thank you Marcus.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at July 8, 2008 11:28 PM

Marcus at 9.47pm: "The pot can call the kettle black" Especialy if they both are. My Dad used to say "Takes one to pick one."

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 8, 2008 11:19 PM

Lynathdiary.June 8
Well said today on talking of death and dying and moving on and defense of a system that we must have confidence in for a cohesive society. That is not to say serious wrongs have not affected Rodna.
Fair comment and robust discussion on these issues shouldn't have to become whispers or stop because someone affected is listening.
The great good fortune, with huge odds stacked against it is to have lived at all.

Warped at July 8, 2008 8:20 PM
"...Marcus at 7.39pm: Back off, Blundstones. Out of the china shop. All perpetrators are tracked down after the act. Much more difficult, before, don't you think?"

Given your recent form more like 'Bill in a china shop' mate.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at July 8, 2008 9:47 PM

Rodna, I assume the Professional Standards Committee make their gag decision based on the need for a good public perception and confidence in the health service especially since the medico involved is well known and still serving. Individual cases lie yours are treated as aberrant- unlike say the situation with Patel.
All the best. Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at July 8, 2008 9:12 PM

Marcus...you would surely think so!The 7.30 Report got their barristers to appeal this gag order to.I can be prosecuted for talking about it,
let me quote for you,from the esteemed Professional Standards Committee:

"the following matters are not to be published by any person"(BOLD PRINT here):
1.The name and address of the registered medical practitioner concerned in these proceedings.

2.The name and address of any witness in these proceedings.

3. Any evidence to the subject matter of the complaint or identity of any person who made the complaint to the Health Care Complaints Commission.

A person who contravenes this direction is guilty of an offence pursuant to clause 6(4) of the Schedule 2 to the Medical Practise Act,1992.""

So...they let him off,even without a reprimand yet still did not want anything disclosed.

Now,the name of the person who made these orders is Dr Michael Pasfield.
I have made a submission to the Garling Inquiry about this case.

As you can see,I have already committed an offence.

There was an article in the "Sun-Herald" on this very day 18th July,2006,about the Supreme Court Hearing....2 Doctors involved...Dr Mansour who was not found negligent and Dr.........who was.If you look at the Childtrens Hospital at Westmead site,and see who the Team Leaders are...you will see it.

I won't mention his name here,because i am not allowed to.But you can always get in touch with the ABC,or Morris Iemma and Minister Hatsigergos who are very familiar with this case.

You can also write to Dr Pasfield but you would be wasting your time...I don't think he is from the planet earth.

In the end,it's the Medical Board that has the power to follow recommendatins by the HCCC.They ignored all of the HCCCs recommendations.

Happy Surfing.

Posted by: musicteacher at July 8, 2008 8:20 PM

Marcus at 7.39pm: Back off, Blundstones. Out of the china shop. All perpetrators are tracked down after the act. Much more difficult, before, don't you think?

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 8, 2008 8:20 PM

Lynath, give it away now before more damage is done. What I suggest is that none of us respond to Lynath's posts on this subject from this point on, otherwise we will be an accessory to the harm she's doing. No one has posted for the last 4 hours anyway so it seems like you all got this figured out already.

Posted by: waterbombe at July 8, 2008 8:09 PM

Rodna, I cannot see why the Dr who you say was found negligent cannot be named. Surely the details of that case are in the public domain.
----------------------------------------------------
The concept of justice for the dead seems strange. Dry bones have no cognition.
I think, understandably it is all to do with feelings of the living and a desire to level and in these cases always you hope to find ways to reduce failure. I have had my close experiences here with a drunk surgeon.

I do like to wonder what is the value of a human life. After all nature is unsentimental and death is built in. Do you value the life of a sick child, its potential unfulfulled, in any different way to that of an adult who has already made contribution?
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at July 8, 2008 7:39 PM

lynathdiary:This was a case of negligence.....his excuse was "he didn't read his notes'.Only one of the Registrars came to me and said he was sorry.His peers,nurses know what happened and he has lost respect.

I have not received any money,although my husband lost his job and we suffered great financial difficulties.

I am suing though and I will do whatever I can to have the case made public,

I have only good things to say for any medical treatment I have received.He is a disgrace to his Profession and dangerous in my humble opinion.

Posted by: musicteacher at July 8, 2008 4:31 PM

There are some beautiful people in the world,and it is comforting,trully comforting to know that you care.
Thankyou

Posted by: musicteacher at July 8, 2008 3:47 PM

waterbombe, iaminperth, waterlily..do you know that one of the most painful things for grieving people is to be made to feel they can't talk about their grief and tell their story. One of the worst things they find is that no one will talk with them 'in case they get upset' but mainly because they are terrified of death and dying themselves and 'don't know what to say'

Keeping grief ,including the anger part hidden and preventing people from demonstrating grief by crying etc because it is socially unacceptable and too hard to handle, is more detrimental to recovery and increases the risk of long term depression, than being able to say what they feel and think.
If someone brings up a personal topic on the blogs then it usually means that they want to talk about it...otherwise why bother?

The trial by Media I was referring to was here in the blogs and emotional newspaper articles which are designed to sensationalise and make people angrybut have no real basis except to sell or perhaps for some political motivation,and don't care about the damage in their wake.
Ten or twelve years ago my nephew was ripped apart by a Pit bull terrier and taken to Westmead Childrens Hospital where he and his parents were pounced upon by a 60 Minutes Crew who followed him from Emergency to Theatre and Bedside with emotional parent interviews (including Cameo of concerned Aunty) . There had been a spate of Pit Bull and other vicious attacks at the time. The show was to be shown in order to fuel and supposedly support the burgeoning debate and calls to get rid of the dogs altogether.The airing was suddenly delayed due to a bigger story coming along and then dumped(supposedly archived waiting until the next dog attack needed an emotional parent and small child to sell something) My sister and her husband felt very used as they had agreed to the intrusion in order to have something done about vicious dog attacks.
The dog harmed her child but my sister was unable to do anything easily legally without years of stress and costs and pain. She let it go ,as sometimes the emotional cost is just too great and would only take years out of her life.

Platitudes and agreement of someone harming her child in order to make yourselves feel better is not really helping Rodna but reinforcing her grief.

We see the scars on my nephews body but we don't keep pointing out to his mother that a vicious dog atttacked him in order to make her feel guilty or sad.

Sorry Rodna, I don't know your title(and grief sticken mother was not meant dismissively) but I do know you will have joined the ranks of those who have experienced life to the full, and become or will become an emotionally highly developed and compassionate person with a real understanding of what is important in life.
Perth, my viewpoint is as balance . You have all taken the "revenge is great" stand when you don't know the facts either. You have reacted to an emotionally graphic account of the treatment, without acknowleging it's necessity given the circumstances. I am not saying that Rodna is not telling the truth as she sees it, only that there is another side to be considered before you all condemn.
.And waterbombe, no need to know all the facts of the case to see how things unfolded from reading the news story with benefit of some medical knowledge.

Those in the healthcare professions cry many a private tear of despair and grief or have sleepless nights worrying.

The person/team involved did not cause the disease. It seems their crime was slow diagnosis and not for lack of investigations.

If we go down the path of suing and litigation (except in the case of true negligence or deliberate wilful harm) then how many people will be willing to even enter the medical profession?
Obstetricians are becoming fewer for instance because they are being sued for malpractice for things that were once considered acts of nature Now they are expected to foresee and warn patients about every possible thing which could go wrong or risk being sued. Meanwhile the parents themselves continue to drink and smoke and take drugs.

Sometimes an uninvolved stranger can give a rational perspective which could be helpful
in allowing the situation to be viewed differently and maybe trigger some thoughts which could be helpful.
It interests me that you find that offensive perth and waterlily.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at July 8, 2008 3:29 PM

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 8, 2008 1:00 PM
Thank you for your most kind words - not sure were this piece is from ,I have had it for some time and like you,it touched me ! From time to time over the last 10 years I reread it and still has the same affect - today I felt I wanted to share it and remind others also of what they already know.......

Posted by: amberlight58 at July 8, 2008 1:36 PM

Thank you for taking the time to read it

Cheers.....SS

Posted by: fromheretoeternaty at July 8, 2008 3:00 PM

Very Beautiful,
fromheretoeternaty

Posted by: amberlight58 at July 8, 2008 1:36 PM

Musicteacher, sincerely, please don't feel you have to justify your thoughts and especially your anger to anyone......
That you are feeling as you do is of course understandable, and nothing anyone can say, be it positive, negative or otherwise, will ever make you feel any different.....

I have to agree with Perth, her post of 9.19 am today....
One can only hope that your little girls memory will go on in the hearts and minds of those who knew and loved her...

One final comment, when you see posts like the one that upset you so, try to ignore them rather than let them anger you, as we all know how destructive and debilitating emotional anger can be.You do not need that in your life....
Simple words, l know, but they are said with genuine concern and feeling............K

Posted by: auntykaz at July 8, 2008 1:15 PM

fromheretoeternaty at 12:25 PM: Your sublime quotation made me weep. Thank you very much. More-detailed source please.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 8, 2008 1:00 PM

Rodna,
I have only the slightest idea of how awful this must have been for you.
As a mother of 4 children, I can only imagine how I would feel if anything slightly similar ever happened to one of my children.

As a person who has always defended my family against those I view who have harmed them, I can well understand your need to seek justice for your child, and to make sure another child doesn't have to go through the same thing your daughter did.
It is something you just have to do.

I admire you for your courage and wish you well in your efforts.
Things will never change unless people are prepared to take a stand.
Just take time to look after yourself and those you love.

Posted by: amberlight58 at July 8, 2008 12:28 PM

RECLAIMING THE HEART
- Oriah, Indian Elder

It doesn't interest me what you do for a living. I want to know what you ache for and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing.

It doesn't interest me how old you are. I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool for love, for your dream, for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon. I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain! I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without moving to hide it or fade it or fix it. I want to know if you can be with JOY, mine or your own; if you can dance with wildness and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful, be realistic or to remember the limitations of being a human.

It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me is true. I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself; if you can bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul. I want to know if you can be faithful and therefore be trustworthy. I want to know if you can see beauty everyday even when it is not pretty and if you can source your life on the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the full moon, "YES!"

It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom you have studied. I want to know what sustains you from the inside when all else falls away. I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you trutly like the company you keep in the empty moments.

Posted by: fromheretoeternaty at July 8, 2008 12:25 PM

Posted by: iaminperth at July 8, 2008 9:19 AM
You took the words right outta my mouth!

Posted by: waterlily58 at July 8, 2008 12:02 PM

Marcus.......email me for that information.

By the way...Adara did not die of the tumour......
she contracted Enchephalomyolitis 6 weeks after her remmission,and died after 4 months in Intensive care from Scepsia.

Posted by: musicteacher at July 8, 2008 11:53 AM

musicteacher at July 8, 2008 7:11 AM

Sorry to hear about your situation MT.

What was the name of the Dr. who was found negligent in the Supreme Court?

Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at July 8, 2008 10:32 AM

Lynath, Not knowing the state of mind at the moment or how she is feeling your information is way too much and could be very detrimental. I believe it should stop immediately as this is certainly not the venue. I for one would be highly offended by what you are saying.

Posted by: iaminperth at July 8, 2008 9:29 AM

I really don't think this is the venue to discuss a terrible loss. This is simply not the time or the place as no-one here would have even an inkling of the pain you have suffered, nor any idea of the true paths followed. To argue the position with people who have no relevance to this despair will serve no purpose in my view.

Posted by: iaminperth at July 8, 2008 9:19 AM

Believe it or not,I don't like to go over and over it.
This all came from a comment that lavnderbob made to me....saying I would die alone because I said....about long distance relationships:

I feel sorry for people in this situation-it will either fail or be tough going.

...I felt my comment was realistic and it was meant with empathy.

I have thought about what lynathdiary has said....and I agree that maybe I should distance myself from Cancer types of "things"...until I get the next fundraiser to remind me...when they write,phone or approach me in the street for a donation...for childrens cancer.

I want acknowledgement and the correct action...then,I can let it go.

There is a name for a man who loses his wife and visa versa,a name for a person who loses his sight,limb,hearing.We don't have a name for a person who has lost a child...there should be...and I don't want it to be "grief stricken mother".

I hope my children are inspired by my strength....I tell them "never give up on what you believe in".

Cheers,
let's all have a great day,
Rodna

Posted by: musicteacher at July 8, 2008 9:15 AM

musicteacher I think we may have to let this one go, Lynath is defending someone she doesn't know at all to someone she does know slightly...it seems a bit out of balance. My experience is you can't make people understand this kind of thing. I learned not to talk people who defended the doctors, especially when they hadn't been there at the time, knew very little about the case, and didn't know the doctors, but nevertheless had strong opinions which they insisted on stating. It's not worth the trouble it will cause you.

Posted by: waterbombe at July 8, 2008 8:46 AM

the lynathdiary

argggg....
Everything I have said is true,,,I found out about the records after the hearing...it was a surprise to me.

The ABC appealed the gag order...wanting to do a story for public health reasons and were of course turned down,

And I have it documented in the boards written words.....so does the ABC,so does the SMH.

email , your address...,and I will send you a certified copy....then you can EAT YOUR WORDS!

The very next day....this doctor was in the Supreme court having done the same thing to a child 17 years ago.....I attended that..hearing went for 6 weeks and he was found negligent.
It IS hard to believe,it's outrageous.

It was not a trial by media by the way....everything was quoted directly by the records which I had and are now with solicitors.

I am not grief stricken anymore....I am pissed off and rightly so...and i do have a life...I also have integrity,and am not prepared to let what happened to her,go.

I believe in Justice...

Posted by: musicteacher at July 8, 2008 7:11 AM

Yes, waterbombe I think we are all aware that there are incompetent people in all walks of life.

However; when is a person guilty before the trial?
I am a bit reluctant to post this as music teacher is a 'real' person and not one of our "imaginary friends", but I feel the need to defend an unknown person, One sided Trial by Media is not very fair and frightening to others who may find themselves in similar situations.

Musicteacher has stated in an earlier post that the matter was taken to the medical board and covered up and that medical records were destroyed. I find that hard to believe and very serious allegations.
No mention of anything untoward being shown, just an accusation that it was covered up ,by a grief stricken mother.

The doctor did not cause the tumour. When the first tests were negative of course he would reassure the mother that there was no cancer.
If you have a sore leg you don't immediately cut it off do you? Same in this case, start with least invasive tests and elimination of disease given nothing clear to go by. and administer treatment as required. eg replacement nutrition. That was not torture that was necessary to keep the child from suffering further.What it was was frightening and horrible for the parents to feel helpless when their child was so sick.
The type of tumour described in the article may be hard to diagnose and it has not been unheard of to suspect psychiatric conditions prior to diagnosis.

Musicteacher, you have so much to give and a lot of living to do .You can choose to spend your life being angry and focussing on punishing someone for your tragedy, or you can really live. Do your Concerto and then move away from being immersed in the whole illness and cancer scene, you might have a chance of recovery then and for the sake of your other children too. You won't 'get over it" or forget but you can live with acceptance.

If some good has come out of it then it is that the case is now a learning tool for the medical profession.That is Adara's gift to the world and especially the children of Australia.

Someone close to me lost a child to a brain tumour and by staying closely involved with the whole hospital /cancer ward based volunteer work managed to make the next 20 years. and counting. of her life all about suffering and permanent depression. It kept her from coming to acceptance and peace.. It should/could serve a purpose for a short time but not ongoing.Meanwhile her other child missed out on her mothers full attention which was devoted and directed to sick children and their parents, and did not know a normal childhood that did not involve a hospital, and her husband drifted further away, losing a son to a tumour and a wife by default.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at July 8, 2008 12:04 AM

Sorry, Marcus and TW, I should have said "Thank the Goddess"...I don't know how I slipped up like that... patriarchal sabotage, no doubt.

I think that people like musicteacher, myself and others who have experienced this kind of thing have our own supports...I don't count religion among mine, but others do...when something really dreadful happens, people make sense of it in their own way.

Posted by: waterbombe at July 7, 2008 11:08 PM

waterbombe at 7:39 PM: Such good stuff, and so well put. Except that I agree with Marcus at 8,40pm:
Our thanks need to go out directly and specifically to the actual individual people like musicteacher who've bravely stood up and said to the Establishment
"Not bloody good enough. Get real, and do properly what society is paying you to do for us all. Or get out of the driving seat and give a real man/woman a go."
Thank you for doing that for all of us, MT.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 7, 2008 9:14 PM

waterbombe at July 7, 2008 7:39 PM
"Thank God they have the courage not only to deal with their pain but to try to improve things for the rest of us."
I think a belief in god is part of the problem.
We need to focus on rational explanations and considered actions and scientific solutions, not an expectation that somehow there will be a divine intervention or support.
cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at July 7, 2008 8:40 PM

Lynath, there are incompetent doctors who damage people. That's a fact. Just like there are incompetent police, nurses, teachers, politicians etc. Every profession has a range of people from incompetent to superb...you will be aware of that in your own profession.
And I'm grateful to all the people who take action to get rid of corrupt politicians and police and clergymen and dreadful teachers and incompetent nurses, etc. Thank God they have the courage not only to deal with their pain but to try to improve things for the rest of us.

Posted by: waterbombe at July 7, 2008 7:39 PM

The lynathdiary:

You sound like a doctor.
If you read the article clearly you would note the doctor would not listen to his peers.

Inoperable? Terminal? You don't know that!
I didn't suffer the way Adara did.
Look,I know you mean well,but the only people that can relate to this is other people who have gone through this.

She was dying of starvation already.This was not some junior,inexperienced Doctor.This was/is the TEAM LEADER.

....who then ran away when MRI results came in,who told me straight out that my daughter "does not have Cancer and is not going to die".

I know you mean well,but unless you say something like "I cannot imagine what this has been like" then don't give advice on how I should deal with it.

Of course I see a Psychiatrist for my post-traumatic stress...he is the one who directed me to the HCCC.

I had posted a comment telling of my involvement with the Australian Doctors Orchestra...that I would perform a concerto with them to raise money for Brain Stem Research...but it seems not every comment gets through.I hope this one does.

I don't want to dwell on it here...I am sure everyone is sick of it here.

His standard was below average...he was summoned to the board...that's all I will say.

Posted by: musicteacher at July 7, 2008 3:16 PM

waternymph47 at July 6, 2008 2:00 PM: Best of luck to us all, and specially to you. Reckon you're overdue for some.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 6, 2008 10:30 PM

silhouettegirl at 1.53pm: I reckon if the last century was Use before you own (hire purchase, not layby) then this century has to be Try before you buy.

My last lengthy short relationship (about 9 months in 2002-3) included me staying at her place for about 4 months, at the rate of about 3 days and 4 nights a week.

I brought about 4 changes of in-season clothes to keep there, and 2 tubs with my current business papers came and went with me each visit.

When she really irreparably upset me, I packed up and was gone in ten minutes,

In your case I'd have put a tenant in my house with a 6-month lease (with one room not let, because it was filled with my stuff and locked.) Then the try-before-you-buy would have cost not much more than a return air fare.

But that's me. I believe more of what I see than what I hear. Because talk's cheap - including wooing talk.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 5, 2008 7:43 PM

Five plus years ago I started chatting to a guy in an MSN chatroom and altho he had a few things to go thru in those years(stopped drinking & smoking and started caring for his health & trying to improve relationship with his kids) we remained firm and caring friends and a couple of visits back and forth aquainted us with each others kids and friends as well. It also showed us we had chemistry(hate that term)!
His suggestion of doing all he could to make my 60th birthday special last year led to us revisiting the thought of deepening our relationship. I had been the cautious one there not wanting to up sticks and move even further away from my kids than I was when living in SA while they were in NSW but the romancing on his part was persistiant and deligent enough to convince me that we could do this.
He wasn't ever abusive nor did he cheat on me! He was kind and generous mostly ...
But despite him calling his Ex wifes name in his sleep I was never to mention her name or make reference to, nor ask anything about her! Nor could we visit his youngest daughter if the "EX" was going to be there that day too.!
I moved into the spare room early after my arrival,initially because I had the flu and didnt want to keep him awake due to me coughing etc! He took umbrage imediately and began his monumental sulks but made no effort to see to my welfare or cook a meal .. just the occasional offer of a cuppa .. since he seems to live on nothing else!
I became the 'Companion/housekeeper' when it became obvious to me that he was more in need of a warm body, warm food, and preferably a "Silent" partner!
I tried getting him along to Counselling to find a level of communication, that was something akin to the wonderful one we had on the phone each night up till I arrived in WA.
Seems he'd "allowed me 3 sessions to get things sorted in" and once we'd done that announced it a "waste of time and money " .. resisting all efforts on the Counsellor's part to find out what it was he wanted , or hoped for much less was prepared to do!
At the end of 6 months I repacked my partially unpacked boxes and now diminished chattels .. having given much away or sold at barely enough to cover moving costs. I'd stopped unpacking soon after my stuff arrived in WA, and I copped a snide "taking over" comment .. despite all being settled to suit his comfort zone. He's now left with a comfortable, tastefully decorated home .. although it was just a mass of his boxes for me to unpack as soon as I got there.
I feel like I did a Domestic Blitz for him for little appreciation and no acclamation, despite having done it on a far smaller budget than your average DB programme!
Looks like Ive just done the 'Interim Woman' thing again .. leaving him secure in his comfort zone while I have to start over again from scratch! Always a lousy 'house keeper' .. I keep walking away and leaving them cosy and secure with their house .. even offered him the ring back .. he declined!

No1 Long distance doesnt work .. not even for 2 dear friends of mine who met in same chat room as many years ago. They at least got married, have a long enduring love , and share same beliefs . but it's getting harder for her with family in USA and his here in OZ and constant travel not on the budget. I hope they can endure!

Posted by: waternymph47 at July 5, 2008 1:53 PM

musicteacher, when someone dies part of the grieving process is often blame, in order to make some sense of what happened and to relieve the pain.
You have lost your beloved child and the pain is something that no doubt you have learnt to live with. You have to work through the grief and come to an acceptance. While you are focused on blame ,this won't happen.
From reading the story I have surmised that your daughters diagnosis took some time and quite a few tests. This is often the case for anyone with a serious disease. That is something that is hard to accept as a parent when a child is ill. When the basic tests kept coming back without clues, then staff would be looking for other causes.They did seem to be fixated on the psychological aspect, but at that time there was little else to go on and it would not be the first case.
A CT scan is appropriate for detecting brain tumours. In the light of the negative tests it is understandable that an MRI (another trauma for your daughter to undergo) may have been held back, especially as there can be long waits to have the test and
cases may have to be prioritised.

If the doctor had not attempted to feed Adara via the tube then she would have died of starvation and dehydration which would have been unacceptable. Given the other circumstances and no sign of illness in the bowel a more invasive feeding method so early would have been more risky, so Adara had to endure the discomfort of nausea in order to avoid a high risk of infection and a perhaps unnecessary procedure.

From the article it seems the tumour was inoperable and sadly incurable.
No scan, test or earlier diagnosis would
change the outcome.

One of the ways you dealt with your pain was to try to tell your story as you saw it. Be careful that those who would seek to make money from sensationalism are not in fact working against your recovery.

I wonder; have you ever spoken with the Paediatrician or staff involved again?

Paediatricians have a great interest in children and I am sure that man would be devastated by the MRI test results and final outcome. He would not have deliberately held back tests and treatment. Not many years ago these sophisticated tests did not exist and there would have been no blame for the same outcome. He is human and acting within hospital restrictions and guidleines and used available indicators to plan care and treatment.

The frustration and worry and fear and pain you felt going through this experience was something that no one would ever wish. The loss of your beautiful child unbearablly sad.
You can't change the loss but you can decide to let go of the blame and try to find some peace and acceptance.

I see you now do cancer related charity work.That is admirable, but maybe you need to take a complete break away from that for some time in order to heal.

There are also support groups such as Compassionate Friends(branches all over Australia) who specifically support brereaved parents and siblings

I am very sorry that you have had to suffer tis tragedy in your life.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at July 5, 2008 12:49 AM

iaminperth at 9:00pm: "I think you still miss Joan don't you TW ?"

Interesting question. It's 15 years (and 4 days) since I stopped doing carpentry in the evenings to help her settle into her new home across town, and our official separation began.

(And mine fom my younger daughter. She went with her mother, who could afford to finish putting her through Uni. But she finally decided to come back into my life only 4 years ago, with a husband she'd already had for about 8 years, that I'd never been told about. No-one was allowed to give me any news of them, so I'd watched her Uni exam results in the Courier Mail.)

At first I was desolated - son dead 8 years before, wife and one daughter taken off, and the other working in England. I felt totally deserted, and also that I was being treated like a wife-basher or something similar. Slightly humiliating, and very depressing.

Joan had bought a house purposely too small to fit in the absent elder daughter, then 25. And I had chosen a 2-bedroom flat so she'd have somewhere to stay if she did come back. Which she unexpectedly did, only 6 weeks later. Stayed with me for a year till she married her long-time boyfriend and they went back to England. It was so nice to have at least one of my dear ones back for a while.

I'd been cross with Joan for years for selfishly focusing on her work and her geneology hobby - anything that gave her an excuse to keep away from me and the daughters. She had said her mother and son were the only people she'd ever cared about, and me for a few years at first. She'd been an indulged only child.

Once she was gone I was even more cross with her. I'd signed on for the "for better, for worser" and she'd chickened out. I guess my pride was now even more hurt.

It took me most of 10 years to get over that hurt. For 30 years I'd focused on the positive, and always been as nice to her as I could, and reminded myself that when the kids were small she was very busy being "the best little mother I've had in 25 years at Clayfield Kindy" and naturally didn't have much time or energy left over for me.

Even less when she went back teaching and to Uni at night. I kept on doing the cooking every 2nd day, and took over the laundry and supermarketing.

In the last few years I've been able to see more clearly that Joan had served her biological and cultural purpose by providing me with 2 excellent daughters that I am enormously proud of, and that my long-standing disgruntles were a selfish response to being treated less lovingly than I was treating her.

I see myself as more loving and giving than Joan is, and that's why I've worded my RSVP perfect partner profile as a list of what I'm hoping to find next time - someone who's as fair dinkum about loving and laughing as I am.

No Perth, I don't miss what she'd become, but I do treasure loving memories of the many wonderful times we did have together, mainly in the early days before the Peter Principle entrapped her.

Posted by: timewarp1 at July 5, 2008 12:34 AM

Musicteacher, the loss of your little girl must have been utter devastation. I cannot comprehend how l would feel if my daughter or son were to suffer and die like this......

Have you had any formalised counselling to maybe help you through this ??

Sending calm thoughts your way musict