RSVP Blog

Tangents ....................

Posted by: woodnwine at May 27, 2008 10:57 AM

some persons state what they want to percieve, without any thought to context, one recently accused me of jumping into the sand pit with glee at the thought of her relationship ending. I can assure her I did not, why should I when I was not understanding who would want to have a relationship with her in the first place.

Then when a person I have liked and respected from day 1 comes and chastises me for a post that was allowed, it was then I realised how disruptive such a person can be. Having been accused of being a person that would not attract a contact because of my posts, I suggest if they did not have the comfort of an existing partner the same would apply to them.

But how dare a person with a hidden profile, attack without any foundation or proof a person with an open profile. is something RSVP should address. I can take all the comments addressed at me, but when it is, I demand the right of reply without censorship from the moderator, which has not happened recently especilly when I kept within the bounds of the rules.

Back to resorting on hard copy of posts.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 27, 2008 9:31 AM

WB, I don't believe anyone "jumped with glee" at the prospect of your relationship failing. You seem fond of going through past blogs so perhaps, for clarrification, you should do so in this instance. Your comments do however further illustrate my point that you deliberately misunderstand in order to go off on another tirade.

Posted by: troyohboy at May 27, 2008 9:30 AM

Thanks WB .... whatever all that meant. Don't worry though, I'm always laughing (at something).

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 10:22 PM

WB at 8.30pm: I'm sorry that you associated me with a thought that your current relationship may have ended, and that if so, I was glad. No way.

Troy is like my mate Norah - rarely says anything while the rest of us rabbit on, then suddenly comes out with a doozie that says it all in one.

As when he said at 11.02am: "Woody, I think WB is first among several here who are deliberately taking what is said out of context in order to push a barrow.

I should have been chivalrous enough to take the extra time to specify what I was agreeing with, and what I wasn't. I apologise to you now, WB, for not. Was stealing $$work time, and hurrying too fast.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 26, 2008 10:09 PM

Just catching up and wtf....how come that lunch back in Feb has hit the blogs again? (FP has been whinging again!!). And then others getting on the bandwagon about who is real and who isn't, it just never goes away. as far a I can tell you all could be sock puppets, except for the bloggers i have actually met in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, at various blog fests!!!! Which we organised ourselves with our own resources!!!
So WB, Kaz, VDU, amdoingit, Jenjen, dolphin, Malsie, Nina, Woodnwine, me, twoeyes, notgodsgift, and about 20 others are all real people that exist in the real life...my next work trip is darwin...any darwin bloggers out there???

Some of us are in relationships, some are not...some have hidden profiles, some do not....but we all like to blog at various times...so can everyone get over picking on others identities and get back to a bit of fun and sometimes informative blogging. Have a lovely evening all...jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at May 26, 2008 9:06 PM

Woody, this is just for you, Re:
waterbombe - are you on a personal crusade at the moment? Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 8:54 AM
Taking comments out of context is not usually a good thing, but here are some other quotes from me taken out of context:

Exactly, Cam1978!! That was well put!
Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 9:37 PM

I stay friends with ex's too, Irishmark
Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 1:46 PM

Waterbombe had put it just about perfectly at 11.44pm, I thought.
Posted by: timewarp1 at May 22, 2008 8:46 PM

Ah, Marcus, this is gold: "A group who regularly claim to talk to someone who died 2 thousand years and now claim this person lives inside bread are obviously deviant and quite able to say that a person is a particular religion because of a water sprinkle".
Posted by: waterbombe at May 24, 2008 8:43 PM

I really don't get the upset with Grego...... But I think he may not be quite as good with words as some of the rest of us who have been here for a while, because we realise how easily you can be misunderstood in writing.

�. If Grego was so sexist, wouldn't what the woman looks like be of prime importance to him? Wouldn't he be on here telling us that only women 20 years younger than him are worth his attention ...like some bloggers have done...
Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 2:16 PM

Waterbombe, thank you for reading my posts as I dont things others have been before attacking me. I think you got what I was talking about.
Posted by: grego7 at May 21, 2008 11:32 AM

Woody, here is something you should remember next time you read what I write:
TW...a quick response...much of what I write is tongue-in-cheek. You seem to miss that.
Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:28 AM

Woodnwine, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek. That shop is still open, you know, the one that sells senses of humour.Where did you put the one you already had?
Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 5:09 PM

And why do I post what I do? Well, as I said a few days ago:
I did get really sick of all the uncensored misogynism that we used to have to put up with in 'the old days' (on the blogs).
Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 10:16 AM

Your post implies that you think the same as Ogre, Troy and TW, who just jumped in the sandpit with glee at the thought I had been dumped. Next someone will be asking if I have PMT, am menopausal or was potty trained too early. No, my opinions aren't due to some personal unhappiness...there is solid evidence behind what i say on here. But you would have to read a bit to know about it. I'm not sure what yours and Troy's backgrounds are, but it's clear to me that Marcus, TW, Ogre have never developed any rigorous thinking on the topic of sexism. I would be astonished if they had read anything at all that was relevant. And I would be ASTOUNDED if they had understood it.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 26, 2008 8:30 PM

I'm sorry to disappoint you absolutely charming older gentlemen, but my relationship has not ended.

And Ogre, you really were all charm and grace in that post (Posted by: oldergent at May 26, 2008 1:40 PM ). I take it you are still in the market for a relationship? Does it occur to you that your prospective partner may be reading the blogs and see what infirm stuff you are made of?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 26, 2008 7:35 PM

Well to begin with to me cam has done nothing but say what he thinks women want to hear from a guy.

If the shoe was on the other foot and I was female everyone in here would be say "oh you poor thing! What a prick he was to treat you like that."
But I am male and as a male I am not allowed to voice my opinion or feeling when upset, hurt or think I am/have been mistreated.
Well sorry to say but it is my right to express how I feel and I am quite happy to exercise those rights.
Now if some guy doesn't like that and adheres to the neanderthal attitude of Just harden up that's his choice but when he is in a shit relationship because he chooses to harden up and not say what about me or exercise his right to say I'm being treated like crap he has no-one to blame but himself, meanwhile I will be having a great time with a wonderful woman because I choose to stand up for myself in an equal relationship, which I did through the whole relationship with the ex. it just wasn't too equal towards the end.

He did not read my post too well or he would have not accused me of pretending to be a nice guy to get the women.
He would not have accused me of acting submissive and saying that is how I have always acted in relationships towards women.
He would not have said I can not deal with not being anyone special.
He would not have accused me of going around saying to myself Gee what a swell guy I am.
He would not have accused me of being a know it all.
And He would not have got on his high horse telling me to be a mature adult.
I am a mature adult. I am the 1st to say I don't know it all, I am one of the 1st to admit it when I make a mistake, I admit I am nobody special without a care and I never go around saying Gee what a swell guy I am.
I have never thought I am someone special or that I know everything.

Then there is the comment about hardening up not meaning to go around beating on women.
Since when did anyone other then cam mention beating up women. I certainly didn't.
Oh and where did I mention I want recognition for any thing I had done for her or palliative care.

I never said I bent over backwards for said ex. I just gave some example of things I had done for her.
Where did I say I did every little thing for said ex thus making me a nice guy. I didn't.

I treated her as a equal.
As for the comment of communication. That's preaching to the choir when you start talking to me about communication.
My choice of partner was spot on at the start. We got along fine as friends and it progressed.
My treatment of her was spot on too. This is confirmed by the comment to a friend of hers that she didn't know what being treat properly by a partner was until I came along.

I had the misfortune of seeing my mother abused by my father for years on end.
So I do have some clue on how and how not to treat a woman.
Granted I make mistakes but who hasn't

There was nothing wrong with my posts and I don't need a lecture from anyone on judgement of others esp. when they are judging me.

Posted by: chris261 at May 26, 2008 6:16 PM

I have a background in the horse racing industry and the only times I have been to hospital was to have my kids and a few broken bones from riding accidents.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 26, 2008 4:20 PM

OG, a bit below the belt there.....No his eyes were not glazed, yes l did bother to look, actually conversed with him.
If you are going to have a go at WB, then aim your barb in the right direction....her partner is not that.......
And they reckon women can get bitchy.......sheesh............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 26, 2008 2:05 PM

Troy,
A good question and point made, I wonder if any of the participants at that luncheon bothered to notice if her partners eyes were glazed, or did she ever take her hand off his back. Couldn't see an ego like that happy with a glove puppet, it would have to be the real thing. Maybe she is a multi personality and they take over in shifts, she seems to have a thing about multiple births (triplets etc) and feels superior being Quads, lol.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 26, 2008 1:40 PM

Troy for Seer in Residence!

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 26, 2008 11:47 AM

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 9:24 AM

Woody, I think WB is first among several here who are deliberately taking what is said out of context in order to push a barrow. Nothing new of course but interesting when comments made by various people, obviously in a lighthearted sense, are then attacked.
I do wonder if WB's relationship has ended as she seems to exist here 24/7.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 26, 2008 11:02 AM

chris - personally, I don't think you're expressing yourself at all well and should perhaps put more thought into what you write (and I mean that genuinely). Good luck and maybe just go with the flow a bit more.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 9:24 AM

Posted by: cam1978 at May 23, 2008 6:14 PM

Much better post to chris, I thought .... maybe you were just pissed off the first time?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 9:11 AM

Cam - maybe chris didn't express himself in terms you relate to but he is entitled to his opinions. Maybe he does need to be more assertive but I think you'd have to meet him to know. Blogging is just that.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 9:00 AM

"Marcus, I do get taken out and of course being the model of egalitarianism that I am, I do take my partner out too....but I have never been flummoxed by a door. Call it what you will...brains, brawn, beetle bravado... doors do not a problem make for a Waterbomber.

Aren't you guys focussing on trivia? What a surprise. It's as if opening a door gets you brownie points, and you want to be recognised as the stronger sex because you can do it....fer gods sake. We don't need help with opening the doors....get behind the laundry, the cooking, the cleaning, the shopping, sitting up with the kids all night when they have a fever....those things don't take physical strength, they take stamina, energy and time. Time that, by the look of it, you Triplets spend mostly on the couch thinking about how disappointed you are with women and blogging to tell the rest of the world that.

I'm guessing that what you want, boys, is a gorgeous 35year old woman who is in great shape, intelligent, has a good job, no kids, interesting hobbies, great friends, owns a house, 2 cars and a boat, never contradicts you, does all the housework, cooking, cleaning and laundry while you watch telly, knows her place, accepts that you are always right, wants sex daily if not more often, and adores and cherishes you....right?
And you offer....precisely what?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 8:36 PM"

waterbombe - are you on a personal crusade at the moment? Somehow I think everyone is focusing on the wrong things.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 8:54 AM

Perth at 5.01pm: We've only met once before - the nice all-afternoon picnic lunch on Coochimudlo Island a few weeks ago.

I do know that she's an agency nurse, and it was only her third shift this week, so she obviusly needed to accept it for the money. At some private hospital way across town out Ashgrove way, she said. Rang me at 8.22am when she arrived home from work to sleep.

And I just loved your jest - obviously gleaned from your own background in the hospital industry and male viewpoint: I'll score it Humour 8, puppet credibility 2.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 26, 2008 1:45 AM

There you are then....
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 25, 2008 8:49 PM

Glad that is settled now I can get back to admiring BM without feeling a bit iffy, lol.
Cheers you two
OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 25, 2008 8:01 PM

To all,

Grego7 and BM1960 are definitely different people.

I can vouch for Grego7. His name is Greg. He is an actual person unless I am dreaming all this.

I understand that BM1960"s name is Barbara and I am confident she is a genuine person.

rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at May 25, 2008 7:21 PM

Of course they are openly affectionate - a good team win means more money for all in the tradings, and the Man of the Match gets the first round in! Not to mention they are not allowed to text on the field, mobile phones out there would probably make the affection decrease and introduce discreet texting and pxt exchange - lol

Good luck to them.

Posted by: firelightlady at May 25, 2008 7:19 PM

I am definitely BM1960....nobody else....I think a comment I made the other day was attributed to greg07 and this may have led to the confusion.
I doubt greg07 would like to be thought of as me, and vice versa....:-) (Another 'Tongue in Cheek' production by Barbara...)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 25, 2008 7:08 PM

I get tickets for the Eagles games in Perth and, although I'm not a major footy fan, I did go to the grandfinal last year and it was great fun. The crowd was extremely good, loud with all the Victorians there but good naturedly trying to outdo WA with the noise. It is different when you are actually there to see the fitness and standard right in front of your eyes. It will be so much better here when they build a descent stadium to accommodate everyone, although the way the WA government moves, hopefully it will still be in my lifetime. I will go to more games when they build a new stadium, but the old one is okay if you are with a good crowd. What does this have to do with the blog....absolutely nothing.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 25, 2008 6:52 PM

Back on topic: What about our footballers and cricketers being "openly affectionate" when they score?...isn't that a bit off too?

Posted by: istj54 at May 25, 2008 6:27 PM

I thought Greg was Greg07 and Barbara was BM1960? I am fairly sure they are different people.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 5:48 PM

It did WB, sorry about that, it's all getting too silly, what a laugh!!! Greg is called Barbara, now that's a worry !!! or would be for partner I would think, getting more like Pricilla any day now. Apparently the Queer Eye guy used to be called Louise, maybe he has infiltrated the blogs, now that would brighten them up and we could all have a good laugh.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 25, 2008 5:36 PM

Did you mean TW, Perth? You post doesn't make sense otherwise.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 5:14 PM

WB did you lunch dates unexpected shift include being turned over to alleviate any pressure spots

Posted by: iaminperth at May 25, 2008 5:01 PM

no, he didn't look like Grego7 then, istj54, and he still doesn't look like him.
TW, it's not that I wouldn't "poach" - odd word, that, I poach eggs myself. It's a principle...saying no is not an opportunity to correct evil men for the shortcoming of cheating on their wives; saying no is a principle in action. It's very straightforward.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 4:35 PM

TW...did WBs partner on the day of the select, invitation only bloglunch look anything like Grego7?

Posted by: istj54 at May 25, 2008 4:02 PM

WB at 9.33am: Of course you wouldn't poach! That would be total anathema to you. A complete denial of what you stand for.

Far better to have all those lovely opportunities to correct evil men for their shortcomings. Face to face.

And I can really relate to your last sentence. Me too.

I like women, and nearly all women like me. But I don't like sexist women, and sexist women don't like me. Too earnestly open-mindedly honest for them.

So I guess you and I are better to keep away from one another, and each focus on the people who appreciate us for our virtue in action, rather than wasting lifetime playing Berne's ego-bolstering, friendship-sabotaging game of "Blemish".

Based on whatever stereotypical characteristic one can grab onto, label and demonise.

My lunch date cancelled - she had an unexpected night shift last night. So I got to chat with you instead. Peace and love.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 25, 2008 12:56 PM

Wow, this is all a bit out there today and yesterday etc.

Passive aggressive isn't nice it is detached, avoidant and manipulative. Leave it right there.

Opening doors is either a) good manners or b) a chance to checkout someones legs / bum a little closer - good luck with that - I have no objections to either. However I am a bit quick off the mark and I if I open the door for you keep option B in mind.

Sexism is when someone doing the same job as me gets paid more because he is male, and some other important fundamental issues (pls don't let's start). It isn't about manners in action. Marcus I am sure could direct readers to the many copious tomes on female biological and physiological superiority (merely from a physiological perspective - this is not a 'men bad/women good' rant) from embryo onwards.

Sexism is also when thoroughly decent professional fathers have their rights to their children removed and their salary annexed to support an individual that chose and still chooses not to work for whatever reason even when the children are into their teens and about to leave. Sexism is also when this happens to a woman; she can say that's fine I will work a little part time, care for the kids 50% and the court system supports them in this - if a man proposes that it seldom gets awarded! Please note I said decent father - don't unload all the hard luck, cheating, viloent abusive stories - key word is decency.

The term 'nice' when applied to a man or woman or animal is pretty redundant. Decent or even Good describes behaviour and perhaps values, handsome describes looks, kind describes the compassion and caring that WnW describes. (Please bring me dinner if I am ill :- ) I would really appreciate it). Nice is a washy term or a bland biscuit.

Men should not have to toughen up or alter themselves in anyway and neither should women - The gods know that by this time we should be comfortable with who we are.

Though of course living on the Coast plastic seems to be fantastic - wanting slim, enhanced but expressionless and rather needy? Go for it guys!
Sorry that wasn't 'nice' of me...lol

Greg07 is called Barbara? Did I miss something?

For an interesting read for any mother with sons, or woman who wants the balanced other view 'What Men don't Talk About' Maggie Hamilton - Penguin/Viking and/or 'Turning Gorgeous Boys into Good Men' - Celia Lashlie.

I believe that men in society are being often demonised and that polemic views do not help. There are as many vicious women out there as men - or should I say humans as a race have an equal quotient in either gender capable of both decent, and thoroughly appalling behaviour.

Posted by: firelightlady at May 25, 2008 12:26 PM

Have a lovely time, TW. You will find that being out there with real people is so much better for a balanced point of view than spending hours writing tendentious essays.

You said :"I was very sorry to read just then of your many very unhappy experiences with men since your divorce"..are you referring to my comment that heaps of married guys tried cracking on to me after I divorced? (Which btw is the experience of many newly divorced women). They weren't "very unhappy experiences" ... they only lasted a minute...long enough for me to hear what they were actually saying and to reply "No chance, sunshine, get on your bike and pedal back to yout wife". I didn't have a relationship with any of them. I've never had an affair with a married man....I object on principle, but there's always been so many lovely single men my age out there that I've had relationships with very nice guys. I like men, and men like me, but I don't like sexist men, and sexist men don't like me. As you've figured.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 9:33 AM

Hi WB: Just skimmed a couple of days on a couple of blogs, and saw yours of 7.54pm on 23rd: "Your post is incomprehensible, TW. I tried..."

If that referred to my painstaking exposition at 11.29pm on May 22, I am totally incredulous, to say the very least.

You are far from obtuse, WB. My guess is that your ego wouldn't let you even try to understand what I'd said. It was a man talking, after all! Another of your logic-tight compartments?

adieu, Trixie. I'm right back into real life at last, this last coupla days. Which is overflowing with my dear long-term friends, (and not a single winner-maniac of either gender in sight.)

Excellent poetry evening with 6 of them at Sandgate last night, and an RSVP riverbank picnic lunch (second date) with another poet tomorrow, before I introduce her to my monthly open-mike poetry afternoon at West End. After that I'll disappear for dinner with an old friend, and then my beloved night tennis at Stafford..

Thank you sincerely for repelling me back to that comparitive bliss, WB.

PS: To answer your peremptory previous question at 12.02am on May 22: WB, I try to learn more and more about gender relations all the time, and (because I believe a good idea doesn't care who has it) from any person of any age or gender - as long as their apparent knowledge is greater than their apparent ego and/or bias.

I was very sorry to read just then of your many very unhappy experiences with men since your divorce.

Now I am able to understand your profound gender bias so much better. Hope you're getting happier, now that you have someone nicer to add to your personal experience of men.

Peace and love to all. Seeyez some time. When the smoke clears.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 25, 2008 2:58 AM

Well I can say am not the passive aggressive type. How do I know?
I have had 2 personality evaluations when I had a bad episode of depression a few years back.

I do understand what you are saying but nice and passive-aggressive don't go hand in hand when it comes to myself.

Chris

Posted by: chris261 at May 24, 2008 6:47 PM

you are right, guiltypleasure..."nice" goes hand in hand with passive -aggressive...which is not nice at all.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 24, 2008 6:00 PM

I think it is cute to see people holding hands ... the occasional kiss perhaps, but if i wanted to see two people going at it like rabbits i would watch late night SBS and not go to a bar, restaurant or club, people need to be more considerate.

Posted by: melbfire at May 23, 2008 11:31 PM

Thank you for the compliment,NorthernLights:))

Posted by: istj54 at May 23, 2008 9:14 PM

There you are then....I am getting better at netspeak and textspeak interpretation!!!
I found out Oldergent's Deo Maximus Optimus means....God the Great...:-)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 8:24 PM

Chris, there's been some interesting feedback to your 'nice guy' comments, so I thought I would add my two cents worth:

The way I see it, there is a huge problem with being a nice guy. Or a nice girl for that matter - when you are nice to others, it gives them permission to be themselves.

And boy, can they be themselves; they can be thoughtless, dismissive, self-centred, unwilling to give of themselves, take, take, take...

The problem you see, is the passive-aggressive stuff that goes with the territory of being Nice. We act this way because we want, (unconsciously expressed though it may be) a pay-off. We do for others because we want something in return. It could be a peaceful life with a tetchy partner, it could be nooky, it could be a bunch of flowers. Often it's because we want recognition and appreciation. That's especially noticeable in office politics for example, the doer, who makes themselves indispensable.

Frankly I would rather have root canal surgery without pain killers than be a Nice Girl ever again. Nice guys/girls have no self-respect; diminished responsibility for setting boundaries with regards to the behaviours of others; they don't tell others how to treat them well. They are, frankly, negligent about their own needs. And all because they have a screwed up notion of giving and receiving.

Manners on the other hand, are those every-day transactions and customs that ease people through all sorts of settings in daily life. We don't have to be Nice in order to get recognition; the boundaries of social ettiquette are easily recognised, and when people cross over that line, we respond by pulling back from them, or correcting their behaviours. I'm a huge fan of manners. It gives me scope to tell the office Nice Guy that for the time being, his work is great, and now he can bugger off and leave me to finish the report that he's offering to finish for me. Oh, and if you're making a coffee, I'll have one too please, no sugar. Thanks.

I said two cents worth. I think I've probably used up my weekly allotment. Oops,sorry.

Posted by: guiltypleasure at May 23, 2008 8:06 PM

DOM does mean dirty old man, bm1960.

Your post is incomprehensible, TW. I tried...

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 7:54 PM

Chris, just a bit of thought re your blog...these statements seem to contradict your nice guy image:
In What way?

""You are so wrong"...is that nice, Chris? ."
I just stated a fact.
That he is wrong.

""Most of us are not nice people when it comes to the crunch" ..really? Is that a nice thing to say? Would a nice person believe that?"
Why wouldn't a nice person believe that.
It is generally true.

"" I am not a jerk like most guys"....Most guys are jerks? Would a nice person believe that?"
Well sorry. I am just saying something women say all the time.
So since I have been labelled a nice guy I have to think all men are good people.

""People as usual are too gutless to say (this)"..would a nice person think this of others, Chris?."
Considering it is true. Yes!
It happens all the time. People rant and rave but when it comes time for them to say it when it matters we don't hear peep out of them.

"" I'm pretty sure I'm tougher than you and most men on this site"...wooo...is this a nice guy speaking? Or is this a bully speaking?"
Well for starters I was defending myself.
I don't need some guy to tell me to harden up esp after he has had just attacked me and accused me of pretending to be a nice guy to get the women, telling me I am submissive by claiming I have relied on being a nice guy in relationships , which is not the easy thing by the way.
As well as going on a bout making generalisations about people I have never met yet he is making judgement on me and we have never met.
I've dealt with many things most couldn't handle and I am a much better and stronger person for it.

"You are not that convincing with the 'nice guy' image, Chris."
I don't have to convince you or anyone.
People I meet see who I am straight away. I tend to live as an open book and be myself.
Those I meet can see this and are able make their own judgement.

Seriously. You argument sounds as if you think a nice guy is someone who lives in a fantasy land and sees through rose coloured glasses, is a yes man, doesn't have his own opinions and must adhere to strict guideline of how he should think of other people.
You can still be a nice guy and see the world as the crappy place it is from time to time.
You can still be a nice guy and see people for what they are. Be it jerks or great blokes.
You can still be a nice guy and have the spine to stand up and not be afriad to say what you think and feel even at risk of being flamed by people such as yourself and others on this blog.

"Chris, you didn't come across as a nice guy to me...you came across as a whinger who said awful things about his ex while claiming to be 'nice'. Cam1978's comments are worth a deeper thought, I'd say."

What that I said she is loopy? That was how I felt at the time.
I am greatful I met her because I came out of my shell thanks to her but I can still say I think she is loopy. I'm not the only one who knew her who has thought it at one time or another and a few still do.
No need for any deeper thought there.

Posted by: troyohboy at May 23, 2008 10:09 AM
"Wb, I think that chris believes that if he keeps telling himself and others that he is a nice, yet tough masculine sensitive bloke it will become true. I think a previous blogger had it right when he suggested he harden up and be a man which does not mean being a bully even if he could only achieve this in written form."

I don't tell myself or others that I am nice. Others tell me I am.
I am tough in the scense that i have been through a lot in my short life and comeout better at the other end and I am in no way the most masculine guy around.
The guy was wrong in telling me to harden up. I stated an opinion, while using a life experience as an example.
Since when was I being a bully in written form?
I would put posting harsh comments and not having a visible profile so they can't be identified visually the act of a bully before I would say my post was one and no I am not claiming you are a bully BTW.

The joke is I used an the example of my ex treating me like crap to show how nice guys, and yes nice girls cop it too, get treated like dirt.
Yet people who obviously like to pick fights online and harass people for their opinions are more then egar to dump on me and bully me for doing so.
Yeah my post was it was negative. I was in a negative mood at the time. How can being treated like crap be positive?
I don't need to justify my opinions to WB, Troyohboy or Cam1978 or answer to them when they don't like what I have said. I have a life past this keyboard and unlike some I don't need get my kicks from picking on someone because of what they have posted unlike others.

I am going to enjoy having lunch tomorrow with woman who sees me for the great guy I am told I am.

Posted by: chris261 at May 23, 2008 7:11 PM

"Chris, I'm not saying that youre less nice than the next guy or girl, just that youre nothing special...a concept you seem to find hard to deal with. I would have thought modesty was a necessary trait amongst those 'nice guys' out there."
hey I am only saying what people tell me. That is that I am a nice guy. As I said I see myself as just a guy going about life the way I like to. No one is special as far as I am concerned.

"When I say harden up I dont mean go and beat sense into a woman. I mean get some backbone about being an individual human being. You dont deserve anything you havent earnt in life and this goes for relationships as well. Being a 'bend over backwards' kinda guy for a girl who doesnt really want that in a guy, doesnt mean that the girl let you down. It means that you chose poorly in either (1) your choice of partner or (2) your way of interacting with said partner."
I never did say I was bending over backwards or that she let me down nor did I say You meant that i should go and beat up a woman.

"Anyways, where does it say that you have to do every little thing for a girl to be considered a nice guy? Shes a female mate, not a cripple. You want recognition for offering palliative care then go date a granny. (no offence meant to any grannies in here.)"
Where did I say I was doing eveything for her.

"Treat her as an equal, but keep an open mind about what keeps the two of you on an even par. There are things she might want to you to do for her that dont marry up with your ideas of things you want to do for her and vice versa. Communication....very important."
I did exactly that.

"Also, if your doing these things for her out of some pre-arranged notion of how to treat a girl then the question needs to be asked: are you really doing these things for her, or simply so you can say 'gee what a swell guy I am!'"
Well blow me I thought the pre-arranged notion on how to treat a woman was with decency. Seams to be what the whole of society has been saying for years
I said it before and I will say it again. I do things just because thats me. I don't think "Well I will do this or that for her and she will think more of me."

"Forget what I initially said about being a man, how about you just be a mature adult human being and accept that things dont always go to plan whether it be your work life, social life or love life. Adapt to change mate, accept that you dont know everything about everything,"
I am a mature adult and I have been living in the real world for quite a while. I have adapted to change quite a lot having lived in several place and had several jobs aswell as making a major career change thanks to a broken hip.
I don't have to accept things or even like them they are just there and I deal with it as I always have. I have the right to voice my opinion about something and I know all to well things dont always work out or goto plan.
"move on and stop judging negatively a whole bunch of people youve never even met in a forum like this little tho in the real world."
Maybe you should take your own advice and stop judging me on one post I made.
Your hollier then thou stance seams to make me think you are more likely to go around saying what a swell guy I am then myself.

Posted by: chris261 at May 23, 2008 7:10 PM

After reading the comment by cam1978, I am torn between wishing I was 20 years younger (and lighter..) or that Cam is 20 years older and lived in S W Sydney!!!
Wise words from a seemingly well adjusted and mature young man...
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 7:02 PM

TW your masculine side is showing...the one that doesn't like to be queried, questioned or rebuffed...in a debating sense that is.....descending into the playground now..............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 23, 2008 7:00 PM

Brings a whole new meaning to two and a half men !!

Posted by: iaminperth at May 23, 2008 6:46 PM

I originally thought DOM meant 'dirty old man'....:-)
I have no idea what Deo Optimus Maximus means though! Something to do with big or most is my guess though!! Can you please interpret for us oldergent?
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 6:23 PM

laughsandtalks at 12:37: Very droll. Loved it.

She who must be dead right every single time:

Guessed I'd hit the nail yesterday, but had forgotten that effluent can flow only downhill, from those who imagine themselves up on Mt Everest down onto us ordinary humans in the foothills.

Really admire your different rules for yourself and others. Nothing like a sloping playground to aid the weaker debater.

I hope you soon feel well enough not to need to pose rhetorical questions on the blogs, so that you can imagine yourself demolishing anybody who humours you by playing along.

Robert you are so right. Both times.

PS: Kugel from the founder, Fraulein Kugelkopf of the spherical head.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 23, 2008 6:19 PM

Chris, I'm not saying that youre less nice than the next guy or girl, just that youre nothing special...a concept you seem to find hard to deal with. I would have thought modesty was a necessary trait amongst those 'nice guys' out there.

When I say harden up I dont mean go and beat sense into a woman. I mean get some backbone about being an individual human being. You dont deserve anything you havent earnt in life and this goes for relationships as well. Being a 'bend over backwards' kinda guy for a girl who doesnt really want that in a guy, doesnt mean that the girl let you down. It means that you chose poorly in either (1) your choice of partner or (2) your way of interacting with said partner.

Anyways, where does it say that you have to do every little thing for a girl to be considered a nice guy? Shes a female mate, not a cripple. You want recognition for offering palliative care then go date a granny. (no offence meant to any grannies in here.)

Treat her as an equal, but keep an open mind about what keeps the two of you on an even par. There are things she might want to you to do for her that dont marry up with your ideas of things you want to do for her and vice versa. Communication....very important.

Also, if your doing these things for her out of some pre-arranged notion of how to treat a girl then the question needs to be asked: are you really doing these things for her, or simply so you can say 'gee what a swell guy I am!'

Forget what I initially said about being a man, how about you just be a mature adult human being and accept that things dont always go to plan whether it be your work life, social life or love life. Adapt to change mate, accept that you dont know everything about everything, move on and stop judging negatively a whole bunch of people youve never even met in a forum like this little tho in the real world.

Posted by: cam1978 at May 23, 2008 6:14 PM

twoeyes at 3.07pm: Triplets sounds better than quads, especially at nappy-change time. But you are right and you are welcome.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 23, 2008 5:53 PM

Ha OG l could think of other things that DOM would stand for..........K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 23, 2008 5:06 PM

Yair TW,
Deo Optimus Maximus. LOL
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 23, 2008 4:47 PM

Twoeyed, l doubt that WB would put you into that basket....
More the SNAG basket l would think.....

Chris, l read your post as being negative, as in negative towards the particular ex, but on reading it a second tiime l think it does come across as being negative in general.....

Sometimes that happens when we you are referring to an ex, it is easy to comment on the things that went wrong and how it hurt you.

Hard to draw a line in the sand and walk away, but that is the most sage advice that l have ever heard....that and take a deep breath......................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 23, 2008 4:41 PM

Very funny Marcus, that was a good laugh, especially "Good value but not quite up to scratch"...designed to get a bite? You'll have to try harder than that. I imagine that's what she says about you, too, when you're not there.

And TW, you have deteriorated to identifying knicker-colours and the language of a four-year old - calling women "Miss Bossy"? No comment from me, except once again you have shown yourself to be a DOM.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 3:36 PM

Just FYI, Oldergent, Marcus and Timewarp are our resident Bloke Brigade

with infrequent posts from moi thanks WB

Posted by: twoeyes at May 23, 2008 3:07 PM

Blushing again here...thank you.
Will move the car stuff up, but I hate my teeth so will leave that alone! I appreciate all the advice. It will be interesting to see if I get any response cos the kiss rate hasn't been real flash lately!!
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 1:54 PM

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 9:04 PM
Barbara, I think your profile is very good. I have two suggestions.
1. Bring the paragraph that you have under sports the one about cars up into the main section. Most guys have at least a passing interest in cars and this is a hook to start a conversation.
2. Get into the main section something about your smile. You have a beautiful smile and great teeth (I used to be marketing director of a toothpasre company) maybe it can go in the second line.
A profile is basically an advert to ellicit responses for you to then sort out.

Your line re weight was very good. The reality is that almost every one is a least a bit overweight. You have the height to carry it. Let"s face it in real with that smile and height you are a knock out. Goof ,luck. grego

Barbara

Posted by: grego7 at May 23, 2008 1:12 PM

waterbeetle at May 22, 2008 8:36 PM

"I'm guessing that what you want, boys, is a gorgeous 35year old woman who is in great shape, intelligent, has a good job, no kids, interesting hobbies, great friends, owns a house, 2 cars and a boat, never contradicts you, does all the housework, cooking, cleaning and laundry while you watch telly, knows her place, accepts that you are always right, wants sex daily if not more often, and adores and cherishes you....right?"
----------------------

I have a FWB pretty much like that. A little older and she back chats a bit. Good value but not quite up to scratch.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 23, 2008 12:37 PM

waterbombe at 9:12am: You forgot dipping the ends of their plaits in the inkwell, and yelling "I seen yer knickers, an' I know what colour they are!"

How about you answer my previous open-ended questions, Miss Bossy, before you ask me to answer your later closed question?

That concise enough for your attention span, ma'am?

PS: Maybe yesterday I had just happened to guess the colour of your knickers?

Questions, questions, questions ....

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 23, 2008 12:17 PM

Chris @ 11.56 pm.
Once again your post is sure to get up the nose of the femme,(thank goodness most here aren't). Your statement about not wanting to give your life for a few hundred people is negated when you risk it for one person. I held that view as a youngster, till one day the roof of the mine dropped, trapping a particularly nasty type against the face. The unit collectivey did not like him, but to a man we went in with the roof still dribbling to get him out. We all got a cursory nod of thanks later at pit top, he didn't change to us nor us to him. I think somehow that a lot of women would not understand the male attitude. We did it because we would expect it to be done for us, not to be touchy feely and gather around and change our attitude. He was a mongrel before and a mongrel after the incident.

B, Lass, control is needed today or some of those oldies will get ideas.lol

TW, nothing upsets more than ignoring the faceless nuisance.

Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 23, 2008 10:22 AM

Generally it only takes an hour or two for a post to appear, G. and not many of us are 'perfect' bloggers...I've been censored a few times, so have many others...on reflection I thought my posts were cut for going ABTF (a bit too far). It's just a blog after all and its purpose is primarily for entertainment. I did get really sick of all the uncensored misogynism that we used to have to put up with in 'the old days' .

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 10:16 AM

Wb, I think that chris believes that if he keeps telling himself and others that he is a nice, yet tough masculine sensitive bloke it will become true. I think a previous blogger had it right when he suggested he harden up and be a man which does not mean being a bully even if he could only achieve this in written form.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 23, 2008 10:09 AM

Hey Nina.. agree with you @ 10.10pm last night. This not posting in real time has whiskers on it hence my very infrequent posting of late. Loses the spontaniety when you have to wait till next day for a response and sometimes are not available to check next day. Oh to turn back the clock!!!!

Karina... Can we please consider reinstating those trusted bloggers of old who did not offend. The sandpit was much more fun way back then...

Have a good one all... Cheers...G

Posted by: amdoingit at May 23, 2008 9:44 AM

Chris, just a bit of thought re your blog...these statements seem to contradict your nice guy image:

"You are so wrong"...is that nice, Chris? .

"Most of us are not nice people when it comes to the crunch" ..really? Is that a nice thing to say? Would a nice person believe that?

" I am not a jerk like most guys"....Most guys are jerks? Would a nice person believe that?

"People as usual are too gutless to say (this)"..would a nice person think this of others, Chris?.

" I'm pretty sure I'm tougher than you and most men on this site"...wooo...is this a nice guy speaking? Or is this a bully speaking?

You are not that convincing with the 'nice guy' image, Chris.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:39 AM

TW...a quick response...much of what I write is tongue-in-cheek. You seem to miss that.
And my earlier question re "I don't like romance, what is wrong with me?" was designed to stir the pot a little. The blog was stalled and I wanted to re-start it because I was stuck at home for a day, sick, and I was bored. I didn't expect anyone to take it seriously. I notice it is the men with egos and a dislike of women who did take it seriously.

Now as to my gender-bias...nup. Don't have one. I'm into equality...which will mean you guys will have to give up a little...because at the moment you have more than your fair share.

TW, you do have a gender bias though, and you project it onto women instead of seriously examining your own behaviours and attitudes. But you'd never actually do that, I think you would continue to obfuscate the issue with many words.

Your (unanswered) questions to me were about how I behave in my personal relationship..remember I have one, so questions like that are not hypothetical for me like they would be for you...I don't answer those sorts of questions on a blog. Those are private questions. And as I said in another blog, I don't take kindly to people trying to work out my psychology because I think both amateur and professional pychologists have worse mental health than the average maths teacher.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:28 AM

God you're good Perth! : "I think the mafia is a good example...impeccable manners I think". Exxaccerly. "Let me hold this door open for you sir, would you mind moving through promptly sir, my partner is waiting to shoot you in the next room and we don't want to keep him waiting, punctuality is just SO important. Thank you sir, now if you wouldn't mind just facing the wall...BAM!!!".

Chris, you didn't come across as a nice guy to me...you came across as a whinger who said awful things about his ex while claiming to be 'nice'. Cam1978's comments are worth a deeper thought, I'd say.

@ Cam1978: Just FYI, Oldergent, Marcus and Timewarp are our resident Bloke Brigade ...I call them the Terrifying Triplets. They try really hard to frighten all the girls. They drop spiders, they throw mud, they leave mouldy sandwiches under your desk lid at school...you know the sort of thing.

TW, you could have posted a one sentence answer, you know..."yes, I think I have something to learn from a woman about male-female relations" or "no, I don't think I have anything to learn from a woman about male-female relations" would have sufficed. Now I am going to have to apply for leave from work to read what you have written. What's your problem with making short succint statements? Aren't you a writer...didn't you tell us you had taught writing for a crust at one stage? What is going on here?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:12 AM

Good morning all...
Thanks for the feedback....am actually blushing...
Have a lovely Friday,
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 8:55 AM

I forgot to say thanks for the backup OG.
I don't whinge I state my opinion. In this case it is one that people don't like because it is very true.

Chris

Posted by: chris261 at May 23, 2008 12:04 AM

bm1960 at 9:04pm: Feedback on your profile as requested:
1) You're gorgeous to look at.
2) You say the right stuff in your profile.
3) Come on fellers!

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 22, 2008 11:57 PM

Posted by: cam1978 at May 22, 2008 9:05 PM

"To Chris the 'nice guy': mate, the reality is that the vast majority of us dont fall into the catagory of 'nice' or 'not nice' people. We are simply 'people'. When you go off on a crusade of striving to be a nice guy to impress the ladies or because thats how you like to be treated yourself, then youre showing that theres no real altruistic motive in your behaviour, which kinds of throws a spanner in the works of the nice guy act."

Sorry to say this but you are so wrong.
The reality is most of us are not nice people when it comes to the crunch.
I do the things I do because thats how I am. I also like to be treat the same way.
I don't act or pretend to be someone I am not. I just be who I am.
People label me as nice. I just think I am someone who gets on with life and treats people the way I want to be treated without actually thinking "Oh I will be nice to this person so they are nice to me!".
For me it is inate behaviour.

"Now most of us understand that altruism doesnt really exist, but you seem to think it defines you without realising how equally devoid of it you really are."

How would you know?
Apart from not wanting to give my own life for the good of a few hundred people one thing I am noted for is that I have a general care and regard for others. So devoid is pretty far off the mark.
What defines me is I am not a jerk like most guys. I am a genuine guy who does things he does because that's who I am. Ask anyone who knows me and they would tell you the same.

"Now lets just imagine for a second that you really are this all round nice guy: why are you on here griping about your ex, making generalisations about people youve never met and generally just having a whinge? You dont sound like a nice guy, you sound like a guy whose running out of options because the one thing you've relied on in relationships (the easy thing) is being submissive to women hoping they'll take pity on you or feel obliged to return the ' favour' and then complaining when they dont rate you well as a result."

Well lets face the fact that I am told I am a nice guy all the time.
Lets face the face that I haven't made generalisations, I have actually stated something that people think but as usual are too gutless to say.
I am just a guy who is told he is nice and I am just putting across an example of how being a nice guy and being yourself can get you screwed over. It just happens to be about an ex.
I don't go around acting submissive so women will take pity on me. What is that going to get me. Nothing much.
I'm too busy getting on with my life and enjoying what I have.

"Harden up mate, your a man and regardless of all this affirmative action going around these days, women want you to act like one from time to time."

Don't tell me to harden up. I'm pretty sure I'm tougher then you and most men on this site.
As for affirmative action. I think most of it is a load of Bull and feminism gets up my nose.

"PS - have a listen to The Offspring's 'Self Esteem', I think its kinda relevant."

In what way?
It's got no relevance at all.
I use the example of my ex treating me like crap at the end of a relationship. So what. It was a one off situation.
I came out the end with more self confidence then I've ever and tougher then I've ever been.

Seriously what a joke!
I have just said what lots of people think.
You obviously didn't like it.

WB
I never said I was going to change and treat women like crap.
I am smart enough to know that treating women like crap or being submissive is not the way to meet someone.
I just stated how I feel some days and what is actually happening right now.

I know what being a man is.
I do it everyday.

Posted by: chris261 at May 22, 2008 11:56 PM

waterbombe - your demanded response at last!

Re your question at 6.09pm on the 21st, asking why you are so furiously averse to chivalrous male behaviour? (To the extent of threatening to reward it with physical assaults of specified types - go re-read your post.)

I thought it was a genuine question, rather than a conversation-stopper statement of values, camouflaged as a question.

So I tried at 10.10pm to help you answer your question about yourself (usually a person's favourite topic ...) by hypothesising why you personally might be like that. Based on what I've noticed you posting during the last 6 months. Which is all I really know about you.

And I asked you a couple of honest questions back, at the end of my post. Still unanswered.
................................................................

At 12:02am last night you responded to my hypothesis with:

"TW, I'm just curious about this post. It is a long lecture to me on male-female relations etc and what I have to learn. Here's my question. Is there any way you can think of in which I might have more knowledge/authority on this subject than you? What I am asking is, is there any way you could see yourself as having something to learn and me having something to teach you about this topic?" ... "Under what conditions or circumstances could you see yourself as less knowlegeable than me on the topic of male-female relations?"

Then at 1.20pm you followed up with "btw I'm still waiting for an answer to my question at 12:02 AM"

Drumming your fingers on the table, lass?
..............................................................

I have only now seen both of these posts of yours, at mid-evening. Plus a lot of your other posts today, including some to others which seemed to me to display a significantly more aggressive gender bias even than what you usually disclose to us.

At 2.47am last night I posted on another topic "It's not WHO people are that matters." I went on to suggest that it is what people DO that matters. Or fail to do.
..............................................................

So in answer to your totally irrelevant questions to me at 12.02am, instead of maintaining the dialogue by answering my previous questions:

Lecturing in management back in the 1970s, I was inter alia pushing the barrow that confining decision-making and planning to top management is not only bad for profits - it's bad for staff morale.

I coined the slogan "A good idea doesn't care who has it - as long as no-one judges it by its source, rather than by its value."
................................................................

I suspect that the reason for your 12.02 post was that I had cheekily dared to reply to your 6.09pm question, although it had been expressly qualified with the inappropriately elitist rider "Well can I seek some expert opinions?"

So I believe you were hoping at 12.02am for a chance to attack my academic qualifications in gender studies, rather than continuing with the discussion that you had initiated about your reasons for being so chivalry-averse.
..............................................................

I'll come clean, Waterbombe. I haven't even got a Spinster Degree in Affirmative-action Militant Feminism from Kugel Krushing Kollege.

So I have to guess that something that I postulated as a cause of your unusually-developed chivalry-aversion must have been close enough to the truth to touch a nerve, so that you were tempted to try to discredit my credentials, instead of evaluating my argument, irrespective of its source.

"How dare he buy in? Who does he think he is?"

My point is that it doesn't matter a toss (or a fig or whatever) WHO I am. What matters is whether my intentions are good and my analysis is accurate.

If so, only an academic snob will try to duck the argument by attacking the person.
...............................................................

Waterbome, I did not offer you at 10.10pm "a long lecture to (you) on male-female relations etc and what (you) have to learn."

You had asked a question on an open blog about what had led to your unusually negative response to chivalrous male behaviour.

I had simply offered you a hypothesis that I thought might be illuminating to you personally. About you personally.

No generalisations - just an idea about what might have taken you personally so far out onto the negative tail of a certain frequency distribution.

Time I got out of your life and back into my own. Peace and love.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 22, 2008 11:29 PM

I don't quite understand the comparison between being nice and having good manners. I am sure there are a lot of nice people who have bad manners for whatever reason and some not very nice people having very good manners...I think the mafia is a good example...impeccable manners I think. Manners are manners and quite often good manners are more important, perhaps when a woman gives up her seat to a very elderly male, or a younger male with an injury. What does it matter, if we all displayed non judgemental good manners I think the world would be a much better place.I think one of the funniest things I have been involved with was a time when about five women, me included were running for a lift and the one and only gent displayed beautiful manners and stopped to hold open the door, unfortunately, we all thought he would pelt thru first and we all more of less ran over the top of him and just about flattened him. Much, much laughter all around I can tell you and lots of noise and straightening of clothes when getting out. Appropriate good manners nowadays are blurred so I guess try to be sensitive to your partners needs.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 22, 2008 10:27 PM

Looks like one of posts got lost BM.
The one before mine at 9.46. To encapsulate, I think your second photo is lovely and should be your first.

By the way that last sentence should have read: I've been around for a bit (not I've around for a bit - that hardly makes sense, does it?).

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 10:19 PM

Hi Cam@9.05pm
I did not read Chris's piece as a whinge, nor do I think the actions he took were just done to lure a woman into his web, nor do I think that men who pay these courtesies of respect to women naturally, should be dumped on by some of the posters here. Being a "nice guy" certainly does not mean you are soft, a lot of people would not tell me to "harden up". But it is a truism that nice guys finish last and has been the case in a lot my experience over the years. I would like to hear the comment of one particular Femme if a man was to walk past her being assulted, and he did not intervene
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 22, 2008 10:12 PM

Grrr. I'm not used to having to tap my foot and wait for my comments to be 'approved' by the moderators like the way it was back in the dim, dark days when the blogs first began.

Later, to everyone's delight, we could post in real time. What a joy! Until a few nasty and malicious people made inappropriate comments. Now we all suffer. RSVP - please reinstate the notion of 'trusted bloggers' who can post without censor until such time as they betray that trust. Though better than it was in 'the old days', this system is still not entirely satisfactory.

I'm off to bed. I'll check if my recent posts have been approved, tomorrow night.

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 10:10 PM

BM - I just had a read through your profile with a more critical eye. I've read it before but from a different perspective. I think it is great!. Really! I like your humour ('cause I reckon it is similar to mine). My only comment, apart from the one I made earlier about your photo, is that you could put a couple of paragraphs (just hit 'enter' again) in the main body of your profile. A little 'white space' makes it easier to read. Otherwise - love it (but remember, I've around for a bit)!

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 9:46 PM

Exactly, Cam1978!! That was well put! And acting like a man doesn't mean "treat women like shit", Chris. There are more ways to be a man than mean/nasty or submissive/pleading.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 9:37 PM

To Chris the 'nice guy': mate, the reality is that the vast majority of us dont fall into the catagory of 'nice' or 'not nice' people. We are simply 'people'. When you go off on a crusade of striving to be a nice guy to impress the ladies or because thats how you like to be treated yourself, then youre showing that theres no real altruistic motive in your behaviour, which kinds of throws a spanner in the works of the nice guy act.

Now most of us understand that altruism doesnt really exist, but you seem to think it defines you without realising how equally devoid of it you really are.

Now lets just imagine for a second that you really are this all round nice guy: why are you on here griping about your ex, making generalisations about people youve never met and generally just having a whinge? You dont sound like a nice guy, you sound like a guy whose running out of options because the one thing you've relied on in relationships (the easy thing) is being submissive to women hoping they'll take pity on you or feel obliged to return the ' favour' and then complaining when they dont rate you well as a result.

Harden up mate, your a man and regardless of all this affirmative action going around these days, women want you to act like one from time to time.

PS - have a listen to The Offspring's 'Self Esteem', I think its kinda relevant.

Posted by: cam1978 at May 22, 2008 9:05 PM

I have noticed a lot of bloggers, and lurkers, have looked at my profile recently....any advice on how to improve it....I wrote about what is important to me, but a salesperson I am not...all advice taken without offence.
Cheers,
B.
PS...Can't do anything about the phots...cameras genuinely hate me.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 9:04 PM

I was accused of being a 'Feminist' recently....I retorted by saying I am an 'Egalitarian'....but when I think about it, I prefer to be a 'Barbara'...a little bit of this, a little bit of that, which means that I mix the old ways with the new and hope I have a reasonable recipe for life in this century.
I am me. My favourite adjective to describe me is actually...'odd'...I like that word.
Cheers,
Barbara :-)

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 8:49 PM

Marcus, I do get taken out and of course being the model of egalitarianism that I am, I do take my partner out too....but I have never been flummoxed by a door. Call it what you will...brains, brawn, beetle bravado... doors do not a problem make for a Waterbomber.

Aren't you guys focussing on trivia? What a surprise. It's as if opening a door gets you brownie points, and you want to be recognised as the stronger sex because you can do it....fer gods sake. We don't need help with opening the doors....get behind the laundry, the cooking, the cleaning, the shopping, sitting up with the kids all night when they have a fever....those things don't take physical strength, they take stamina, energy and time. Time that, by the look of it, you Triplets spend mostly on the couch thinking about how disappointed you are with women and blogging to tell the rest of the world that.

I'm guessing that what you want, boys, is a gorgeous 35year old woman who is in great shape, intelligent, has a good job, no kids, interesting hobbies, great friends, owns a house, 2 cars and a boat, never contradicts you, does all the housework, cooking, cleaning and laundry while you watch telly, knows her place, accepts that you are always right, wants sex daily if not more often, and adores and cherishes you....right?
And you offer....precisely what?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 8:36 PM

Off topic as well....I totally enjoy doing a random act of kindness...I think nothing of it at the time, but the recipient shows their surprise and appreciation and that is what makes it enjoyable. Just saying hello to someone who looks despondent, sad or lonely generates a reaction from them that impacts on them and they actually react with a smile themselves....I love doing that.
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 8:27 PM

Marcus, what on earth are you talking about??

I mentioned Brad Pitt and Harrison Ford to someone else, not you, in a joke, which was acknoledged by that person and you run out with some rubbish about male performers being paragons.....What the ??

As usual you are hijacking another conversation.
Next you will be dragging animals and there sexual habits into the conversation.....as you do........ an unapologetic opinion from me.
Next topic please............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 22, 2008 8:23 PM

Eeeww Marcus, what the ?? That's not a nice thing to say...where are you hanging ?? I like a guy to open a door as you get to do the really close up little flirt bit, the look in the eyes, the gentle brush of skin as you walk past, the smile, the pause....all good fun, lol

Posted by: iaminperth at May 22, 2008 8:13 PM

ISTJ re the 'runner' - very funny!

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 8:10 PM

I agree with ISTJ and others. Opening doors for others has to do with manners, not romance. I do it all the time, whether it be for male or female, young or old. Ditto with giving up my seat on public transport. If someone is struggling or looks like they have had a bad day, they deserve some consideration. Which brings me (oops, not on topic) to random acts of kindness. They really give me a kick!

The look of surprise and appreciation on a total stranger's face is reward in itself. I have been known to cheerily give (I hesitate to use the word strange here, but that is what they are) little old ladies (well, older than me) lifts from the local supermarket to their home just because I can. I pick things up (and return them, in case you wonder) if someone drops something. I have paid a dollar or two if someone is short at the cash registrar.

I'm sure almost everyone else on here does the same. It is so rewarding, isn't it? They are all little gestures but they make a difference to someone, I think.

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 8:07 PM

auntykaz at May 22, 2008 6:49 PM
Maybe I hang out of the wrong women? Pardon?
I do get disappointed when people who should know better hold (male) performers as absoute paragons of desirability and worth. I just get mildly irritated when the same people, often opinionated, but usually bereft of an original thought or a reasoned perspective crticise unapologetic objectivity.

Waterbeetle. Doors, the self opening and closing ones are pretty easy to deal with, a 'you first' gesture rather than effort makes the man courteous. Most building doors, say restaurant doors, are not so easy to open- by design. You are generally working against the resistance of the self closing device that a presumably male designer has provided for the builder. Perhaps you need to be taken out every so often so you can see what really happens out there..

Cheers Marcus.

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 22, 2008 7:57 PM

Troy

In that case WB's comment would still have been approriate

Posted by: ynotalice at May 22, 2008 7:26 PM

The drama of the nice guy....
Chapter 13......

the nice women feel the same way............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 22, 2008 6:54 PM

...he's saying that all those married/partnered women are apparently with jerks and all the single guys are the nice ones...the women just can't see it though:)) They're too busy opening doors for themselves...the light ones anyways.
Can't really see that opening a door is romantic...just good manners.
I can remember sitting waiting in a car for my date to come around and open the door for me. Took a minute or two to see he was half way up the street pretending to run...it was pretty funny actually.

Posted by: istj54 at May 22, 2008 6:52 PM

Sean Connery, Marcus, is in his seventies l think, and may l just say, eewwww. Old enough to be my dad.....

Dunno what you are on about there, it was a reply to Grego.
Nothing wrong with Jack Nicholson as an actor, one of my favorite films was "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest", and a devil of a man too, he just has that something.

Maybe you hang out with the wrong women, Marcus, as they all seem to disappoint you so much.....
Or maybe you need to broaden your horizons...................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 22, 2008 6:49 PM

...he's saying that all those married/partnered women are apparently with jerks and all the single guys are the nice ones...the women just can't see it though:)) They're too busy opening doors for themselves...the light ones anyways.

Posted by: istj54 at May 22, 2008 6:49 PM

Re the Nice Guys: So whaddya saying, Woody?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 6:02 PM

Woody thanks for that post from what can only be a very wise young head, but it could have been said in my young days, if there is one constant in life it is that "nice guys finish last".
Chris, been there too, but I did get lucky and met the one that was wise enough to know, with the second now she is back with the no hopers wants a nice guy back. my lesson learned this time. But there are some nice ones still out there, unfortunately the are 30 years and so to young.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 22, 2008 5:58 PM

Marcus, get those female "self closers who walk away and shut the door with a force 10 back hand slam that moves the catch" to open the heavy doors that small women battle with. Simple. Problem solved for women by women.

Two points.
1. Builders have been making doors that are easy to open for years.
2. If we have to open a 10' steel door to a bank vault or the equivalent (the Ritz, say) we will ask you and admire your manly strength, if you have it, that is if you have not been sitting on the couch watching sports on telly for 20 years. Or if you are not up to the task, we will ask a female door slammer with a force 10 back hand friend to do it.

Point being, it's strength that moves heavy objects. Doors are not usually tricky to open. On the odd occasions they are, a big man or a big woman can do it. You don't need a penis to open a door, Marcus...I suggest you never use it for that in case the woman you are squiring is a female door slammer with a force 10 back hand slam.

Troy, *sigh*....youth, beauty and modesty...and you don't let it hold you back! So glad to see you dating older unnattractive women.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 5:56 PM

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 2:09 PM

That's a great one Woodnwine.

The issue for me is I don't want to meet a woman who has finally seen the light esp after she has been with a few dozen men.
I've had enough of hearing the "I want to meet a nice guy!"
Esp on this site.
I'd rather be hit by a truck tomorrow then settle for someone who spent their 20s out partying, picking up different guys all the time.
I had the friend who would fall asleep drunk on my shoulder or in my car on the way to her house. I never made a move on her and she knew I wouldn't
We got together. I didn't change or do anything different to when we were just friends. I drove her to Basketball, because I like to watch her play, I would drive when we went out because I am not a big drinker. I would drive all the way from Bundoora to the Police academy because she was lonely when she start her training. I'd would turn the electric blanket on if I knew she was coming over to stay the night. One day she was on placement locally and stayed at my place. She went out with a friend and was in such a rush she just threw her suit on the bed when getting changed. I picked her up and brought her home. When she walked in to see her suit hanging up she asked why did I hang it up.
I just Shrugged my shoulders and said "I don't know. I just wanted to!"
I didn't expect to get anything from it and I thought she would have done the same for me.
2.5 months later she gave me the flick.
Why? As far as I'm concerned, it is because I'm a guy who does things his way. Which happens to be the right way. I treated her how I wanted to be treated. Nicely.
As far as I'm concerned. Most women only want a nice guy when it is convenient. The traffic only runs one way and when you start "Saying what about me!" When you are not convenient any more. They will dump you go back to the pricks and assholes.

Everytime I get knocked back I look at my copy of The Game and think stuff it. If you can beat them join them.
Eventually there will be no nice guys because we will all be so sick of being 2nd best, the friend, boyfriend material but not for her, he's to sweet, too nice. We will become just like every other guy.
It's happening every day. Dozens of guys are paying to learn how to become PUAs and most women don't even see them coming.
Personally I want to be wanted for who I am not who some guy can teach me to be.

So in all truth. "Nice Guys Finish Last!"
That is unless you look like Brad Pit or George Clooney or your as rich as Packer.

Chris

BTW
As for the ex. I'm glad she is gone.
Fruit Loop hardly describes what she is.
Hindsight is a great thing.

Posted by: chris261 at May 22, 2008 5:31 PM

Tryboy you could have had an imaginary conversation with yourself....
"after you".... "no after you, l insist", and then walked through the door.....probably wouldn't have gone down too well though.

I would never rebuff a man for opening the door for me, l think it shows manners at the very least.
I doubt whether romance has anything to do with it, well not for me anyway, but good manners never go astray..................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 22, 2008 4:23 PM

auntykaz at May 22, 2008 12:57 PM
Harrison Ford is it? I thought it was George Clooney. Sean Connery must be for the over 60's.
It wouldn't be ol' Jack Nicholson though would it? He famously and recently said that most men only think about a woman for an hour after sex.
"We have more in common with a male dog than we do with a woman in this department," he says " This may be male chauvinism in a certain context. But, baby it's also science"

Opening a door is a matter of common courtesy. If I'm there first I'll open it for anyone, and hold it open for a group. The origin of door opening, despite what some stupidly cynical Womyns Studies graduates might think, is not a reprehensible chauvinistic plot but practicality and a mannered acknowledgement that men on average are about 30% stronger than women, markedly more so in upper body strength. It makes practical sense. I mean literally you could wait out side a heavy door while a small woman battled with it (and worked out which way it swung).
I've usually been a car door opener, but am now confirmed. Years ago I politely said to a companion "I'll get it for you". Ignoring mehe managed to chip and scrape the paint from the door bottom of my elderly Porsche as it dragged against a bluestone kerb. The other risk I identify car doors with is self closers who walk away and shut the door with a force 10 back hand slam that moves the catch.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 22, 2008 3:40 PM

WB, being both younger and more beautiful than my date your advice, whilst appreciated, would not have eased my dilema....haha.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 22, 2008 3:24 PM

Hi Everyone - hope you don't mind if I jump in.

Opening doors shows respect - romance however is a feeling, a moment shared between two people (or maybe more).

Your right Waterbombe - taking that little bit of extra effort is a part of what romance is, it shows you care.

My main worry is that these days some people seem in such a hurry or out for instant gratification that they forget how great the little things can be, a written post it hidden in a place you know your partner or lover will find it, a single flower, preparing a bath for her or just spending time genuinely being interested in what her views, troubles, or day has been like. All these and more are what makes up something romantic.

I can't speak for other cultures but for me, well every moment I spend breathing is fantastic and if I can also spend some of that time showing in as an original way as possible how much I care for or like being with someone - well it just doubles the pleasure of being alive.

Posted by: rustiknight at May 22, 2008 3:16 PM

waterbombe - I've on several occassions offered to cook food and take it over to a sick partner's house.
Re: your comment "it's the amount of effort the bloke expends" .... do you really think so?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 2:12 PM

Ode to the Nice Guys
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal
This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

Fu-zu Jen, SEAS/WH, 2003

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 2:09 PM

@ Woodnwine ..."Waterbomber, maybe you are getting confused between fake romantic tactics designed to get into your .... and genuine loving gestures.".

Nup. It isn't genuinely loving to open the car door for me unless my back is playing up. But it is genuinely loving to make me a big pot of chicken soup when I have the flu. The bloke has to make considerably more effort to make the soup than to open a door. That's generally how I tell the difference between fake romantic tactics designed to get into my.... and genuine loving gestures....it's the amount of effort the bloke expends.

Oh, I can't help being cynical. If you guys think opening a door is a romantic gesture, why not run ahead of a woman and flick the light switches on, too, to save her the effort?

Now here's a genuinely romantic gesture. Cook up 2 or 3 meals, put them in freezer bags and take them over to your girlfriend's place next time you visit, so that when she comes home from work exhausted she can just re-heat them. And do it without any design to get into her....

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 1:40 PM

Ah, Troy, what a dilemma you were in...but you should have just said "age before beauty" and walked through first :-)

TW, thanks for telling me I made you laugh. I do try sometimes. Lighten up over the flirting comments...we all knew you were not trying to cut my bloke's lunch.

Interesting to hear you were inebriated/exhausted at the blogger's dinner...every time we spoke to you, you replied with a sentence that tailed off into nothing...I couldn't work out what was wrong. I wondered where all the words had gone.

As for "tearing strips off you"....you are yet again doing what sexist men do...personalising the argument instead of sticking to it's point. I disagree with your values and opinions, and I say so. That is not "tearing strips", that is having an informed opinion and voicing it. If you care to look back over my posts, I doubt you will find any personal slurs made by me to anyone. I disagree with people, but I don't engage in personal putdowns. To me, that smacks of a poor thinker...someone who adds emotional damage (they hope) to their argument because their logic is not good enough. Several people here do it routinely...it's a bad move, because it tells your listener that your argument is weak. You did it when you called women "bitches" because they didn't respond to your electronic kisses.

btw I'm still waiting for an answer to my question Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 12:02 AM . Anything to say there?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 1:20 PM

I try to hold back to see if a man offers to hold the door open etc. so that I can respond accordingly. To me, it is nice manners but not something I expect to happen often anymore. It is even the same in a work situation, if a male colleague wants to be a gentleman, I have no objection.
By the same token, if a lovely male had his hands full with wine and flowers for me, I would be very happy to be good mannered and hold the door open for him...
:-)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 12:22 PM

troy, that was pretty rude of that woman, I think. I think women can get hung up on stuff like that as being "sexist", when I see it as just "chivalrous" gestures that can be taken in the spirit they're intended, generously; a man's way of nurturing perhaps, where a woman nurtures in a different way. I don't see those things as being to do with "romance".

Posted by: malsie at May 22, 2008 11:52 AM

Grego@10;33
Sorry I reacted so strongly the other day...you've redeemed yourself with the last line!!!!

Posted by: ssshhh at May 22, 2008 11:23 AM

Ah, I wish, WnW - you smooth talker :)

Yes, BM, love pops up unexpectedly sometimes. I hope it does for you soon, and that you continue to enjoy your single state in the meanwhile.
On a cold day in Tassie today, you couldn't get much more of a dag than me at present - 2 pairs of socks (slippers even...) many jumpers... my hands were so cold for the first 2 hours I got up, even with the heater on, my fingers would hardly move to type the transcript I'm meant to be doing from home - which I'd really better get back to....

Posted by: malsie at May 22, 2008 11:02 AM

I once went on a date with a woman who refused to walk through the door I had opened for her as she told me it was sexist.
Funny to remember me standing there holding the door totally perplexed. We didn't get on.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 22, 2008 10:56 AM

Before my first serious date when I was 16 my mother told me to always open the car door for the girl. Have done it ever since.

Romanatic guestures I think are at their best when spontaneous.And hopefully can be discerned from mere tactics.

My mother was the first woman I ever slept with so have always valued her advice. grego

Posted by: grego7 at May 22, 2008 10:33 AM

I hope not malsie otherwise that would mean you have to wait another 40 odd years.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 10:03 AM

Malsie...lovely to hear about your mum finding happiness.
A few of my friends have found new partners recently...so it gives me hope that I may one day finally find 'my one'. In the meantime, I am happy being single and a winter dag...:-)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 10:00 AM

Thanks, amberlight. Yes, after 37 years of "hard labour" with dad, she finally found someone to enjoy the rest of her life with. He was a widower, had nursed his wife through her cancer for 2 years, and never believed he'd find love again. Mum I think by then probably didn't really think it existed at all.... I'm not a great one for weddings, but I must admit I shed a tear at theirs. They were so sweet together - not meant to be patronising to them, but they really were!
It is inspiring, but does that mean I've got to wait till I'm 70 to find "the one"? :)

Posted by: malsie at May 22, 2008 9:23 AM

waterbomber - maybe I should have said .... maybe you are getting confused between fake romantic tactics designed to get into your .... and genuine loving gestures.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 9:04 AM

waterbomber - maybe you are getting confused between fake romance designed to get into your ...... and genuine love?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 8:45 AM

mea culpa. I do remember a pleasant-looking 50ish slim blonde and her bloke - I think he was on the corner of the table at the italian restaurant, almost opposite me. Both very quiet, and so was I.

But it didn't sink in that is was you, WB, who'd regularly torn strips off me on the blogs before Christmas, when I was a newbie there. You may have been introduced with only your real name - can't remember.

I have a great revulsion against people who seek to steal a partner from his or her partner. When I am in a relationship I immediately put the blinkers/blinders on, and take pains that I don't even look at other women. Even if they are being inmyface. A loyalty thing.

And I must admit that when I see a couple together I soft-focus across them, and try to concentrate on helping to entertain those there who are apparently single.

The good robust discussions outside across the street in the fresh air with the smokers is all I can remember of that evening, except the distant sounds of Sydney Bob holding court at the other end of the long table, and G finally arriving as we were about to leave.

I was seriosly handicapped that night. Bob had been buying me afternoon beers at the pub, whenever he thought I wasn't maintaining an adequate intake.

My first beers for years - definitely not my drink, except half a stubby of light after mowing big lawns on very hot days, long ago. Water's my drink, plus a couple of decaf coffees a day, and one glass of red if I'm dining in company.

And I was short of sleep. Had $$ worked all night at home Thursday, packed after daylight and flown down Fri morning (half-hour sleep on plane.) Worked Friday arvo and hadn't slept well in the youth hostel on Friday night.

By the time I got to the italian restaurant for dinner at 8pm Sat, I was on autopilot.

So my apologies for it not registering that the already-taken taciturn woman across the table was you, WB.

And I wasn't being phoney tonight and email-flirting with a woman who's taken already - just giving some person some honest enthusiastic thanks for being so entertaining yesterday.

No sexual content at all. I'd have done exactly the same if you were one of the puppets who'd delighted me equally.

It's not who people are that matters. It's what they do to please you or annoy you. If anything. And you just had just delighted me, several times. Thank you again.

Lookit the time - good cheap Club roast dinner with 15 Dabblers tonight, then a bit of blogging and a lot of $$ work in my workshop. Time gets away on you when you're enjoying your life. Seeyez.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 22, 2008 2:47 AM

@ timewarp1 at May 21, 2008 10:10 PM
TW, I'm just curious about this post. It is a long lecture to me on male-female relations etc and what I have to learn. Here's my question. Is there any way you can think of in which I might have more knowledge/authority on this subject than you? What I am asking is, is there any way you could see yourself as having something to learn and me having something to teach you about this topic? I'm not having a go and it's not a rhetorical question. I'm asking it seriously. Under what conditions or circumstances could you see yourself as less knowlegeable than me on the topic of male-female relations?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 12:02 AM

How lovely Malsie, that your Mum has found such happiness at last.
Gives us all heart that one day we might find the same.
Those twelve years of happiness (plus many more we hope!) will be her memories, not those years of sadness she had with your dad.
What a lovely thought at the end of a tiring day!

Posted by: amberlight58 at May 21, 2008 11:22 PM

TW - With respect, you did meet WaterBombe in Melbourne. I have photographic evidence. You were both (along with the rest of the merry throng) at dinner on the Saturday night.

I find it hard to believe that you missed her. She was the gorgeous one with the equally gorgeous beau on her arm.

Posted by: ninaschen at May 21, 2008 10:52 PM

God I can't believe you, are you flirting with me, TW? Careful, I'm a Doberman, and we bite.

But I know you are not flirting with me. I was at the Melbourne dinner and sat opposite you at the start of the evening. Clearly I made a HUGE impression. I was the blonde with the bloke, and we were fairly quiet, as is our wont.

Ring any bells?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 10:46 PM

Waterbombe, l've been sniffing too much "Radiant" whilst doing the washing and now can't stop sneezing......
Nice aroma though........

TW, Waterbombe was actually at the dinner that you attended..... I think you were sitting quite close to her if my memory serves me correctly...........K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 21, 2008 10:35 PM

Yeah, waterbombe, I thought of that as I was writing it - but didn't want to spoil my flow by saying "of course they may have just met..." etc!

I'll be more specific actually - I was thinking of my mum and her husband. They've been together 12 years - not exactly a lifetime, but so much happier than she was with my dad. At Christmas I was walking behind them with my sister on our way round to see some Christmas lights and they were holding hands as they walked along, and it made my heart melt. Perhaps more poignant because she had so much unhappiness with our father, and now she has a lovely relationship and at 83 can happily enjoy her "old" age until the time comes for them both to move on. During that same holiday I heard them talk about their travels together over the last few years and observed just how quietly happy together they are in their everyday lives.
I'm not intolerant to that kind of "romance", just the stuff that I find suspect and insincere!

Posted by: malsie at May 21, 2008 10:32 PM

bm1960 at 7:54pm last night (20th): Forget TV. BM, this soap opera actually has soap.

waterbombe at 6:09pm tonight: good on you for saying so, and so honestly. I think it correlates with your focus on requiring blokes to pay strict attention to their Ps and Cs. (That's political correctness, Dudley.)

I see you as ceaselessly on your guard against anything that any man could ever do to disadvantage you or any other woman in any way.

That's only from your posts - I was sorry not to meet you in Melbourne in February - the previous day's 12-hour progressive posters' party had ground me to a total halt by midnight Saturday, and I took Sunday off to recover. My age was showing.

Opening doors for you and all those other old-fashioned courtly gestures that my mother disparagingly called "party tricks" can be seen as delightfully romantic - if you choose to wear rose-coloured glasses.

Or downright patronising, if you're wearing a spiked collar.

If one is zealously devoted to the idea of unisex everything at all costs, then anything that a man does for a woman, that a woman doesn't also do for a man has GOT to be defined as sexist behaviour. So it's got to be stamped out immediately, no matter whether it's nasty or nice.

Unfortunately, there are differences between the strengths and weaknesses of the average man and the average woman, and less rigid ideologues are comfortable with that.

In relationships, they do for the other whatever they and the other both see as an appropriate gift of love and/or support.

What gifts of love and/or support WOULD you accept from a man, WB? And how would he know in advance that they were not on your verboten list?

PS: You were hilariously delightful yesterday, which I already said in a post last night that was axed because I also said something negative to Marcus in the same post.

Maybe your Nurafen was the 'forte' variant, which has an opium derivative in it. Peace and love.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 21, 2008 10:10 PM

Malsie, that "old couple" walking down the street hand in hand, quietly companionable, may have just met on RSVP, "clicked" and be on their third or fourth date. How do you know they've been together for years, you romantic idealist, you?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 10:01 PM

Seconded, waterbombe - "romance" as such is highly over-rated, in my opinion, if it's just the fake, over sentimental tripe that is fantasy driven and due to wither as soon as people wake up from the spell and illusion that they have been cast under...

Seeing an old couple walk down the street hand in hand, quietly companionable, knowing each other inside out after many years together and still liking and respecting each other - to me that is true "romance".

Posted by: malsie at May 21, 2008 9:33 PM

Soft fresh sheets smelling faintly of Drive don't do it for me...it reminds me of the rush hour, which is hardly relaxing...this is making me wonder about the names of laundry powders...

Soft fresh sheets smelling faintly of Surf
Soft fresh sheets smelling faintly of Aware
Soft fresh sheets smelling faintly of ? (I don't know any more).

See I can't stay on topic, due to being romance intolerant. What makes me think there is something wrong with me, Stoic? Ha! It's my children. Do you know that great line in one of the Bond films, spoken by Judy Dench to James after he had delivered some biting witticism: "If I want sarcasm and ridicule, Mr Bond, I'll speak to my children, thank you very much!".

Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 9:06 PM

waterbombe there is nothing wrong with you...i think that I would prefer honest and straightforward , at least you know where you stand with a person.
I usually love romance, but I think that it has been, in recent times, abused.....some men use romance to cover being a player, a charmer and a sleaze....not all the one person but a few I have recently had the pleasure to meet!!!!!!
So am I romance intolerant.....not yet...but getting there...have a lovely evening all......... jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at May 21, 2008 7:57 PM

I believe that laundry detergent can be very romantic...imagine sliding into those soft fresh sheets smelling ever so faintly of.....................Drive????

Posted by: lailaj at May 21, 2008 7:08 PM

What makes you think anything is wrong with you, waterbombe? ;)

Posted by: stoic at May 21, 2008 7:06 PM

Gosh I thought the moderator was having a day off but it looks like no one is actually writing on this blog. Well can I seek some expert opinions? I am romance intolerant. No, wait, I really am! I know it's hard to believe, because I come across as soft and gentle, warm and fuzzy, the sort of girl who always wears flowers in her hair, but it really is true. I can't stand romance...I think its fake. If anyone opens a car door for me, I raise my left eyebrow...if they were to kiss my hand I'd probably smack them. I prefer people to be honest and straightforward rather than charming and romantic. So I'm definitely romance intolerant. What's wrong with me?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 6:09 PM

Nup, that's not going to revive it, Woody.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 5:12 PM

Maybe we should discuss liquid vs powder ....

Posted by: woodnwine at May 21, 2008 2:42 PM

Just to add....since I got this laptop, I prefer to read blogs, here and elsewhere, rather than watch telly....six of one, half a dozen of the other when it comes to keeping up with a soap opera....:-)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 20, 2008 7:54 PM

Blimey....I have no chance then....liking the smell of Drive and reading here earlier that anyone around 50 is not generally attractive anymore.....methinks it is time to get over this rsvp dependency.....way to ruin a perfectly perfect day.....
Nah.....not going to let it get to me....my intuition tells me there are good times ahead!!!! (All tongue in cheek comments....).
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 20, 2008 7:45 PM

I'd be very careful of Drive, BM. Marcus's research has shown it reduces your pheromones to such dangerously low levels that you are left with no option but Friends with Benefits arrangements for nine years with no end in sight. And of course it can also led to RSVP-dependency. Drive is tricky stuff...you've been warned, young lady!

Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 5:19 PM

Ironic....I just got back from lunch with my baby boomer friend and my sister and we discussed this generation thing....we then took the usual trip down memory lane talking about all the gigs we have traipsed over the country to attend and who is going where next ...before you know it, we are discussing the merits of comfortable footwear and green tea....Sue cut us short by saying that the next topic will be what brand of laundry detergent we all prefer!!! We giggled awhile and then decided to go back to talking about rock bands to perpetuate our own private myth that we are only youngsters anyway...:-)
Cheers,
B.
Just for the record...I prefer an efficient and also nice smelling detergent myself..Drive is one of my favourites...:-). I have a thing for the smell of fresh laundry...odd, yes, but one of my many idiosyncracities....not romantic though!!!!

Posted by: bm1960 at May 20, 2008 4:25 PM

Hi G, what am I on? I am on a day off work due to being a bit crook...perhaps its the neurofen kicking in? But really I figured if the guys were going to take laundry that seriously I would get religious about it too. Never let it be said that I am not supportive of blokes.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 3:46 PM

What a laugh, talking about laundry powders under the Romance Intolerant banner. Shows more of chatty friendship than romance and I think that should really be the way it all starts, even having a laugh and a shot at laundry detergent.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 20, 2008 3:33 PM

Omo Sensitive for a Front loader is good, doesn't have all the nasty smelly stuff in it ....god this is boring isn't it !!! Bio Zet is good too, bit more restricted with a front loader.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 20, 2008 3:31 PM

WB..go girl.. what are you on?? ..."G"

I don't use commercial laundry powders so haven't checked the shelves where they're housed. Am surprised that Surf is still around. My god, we had that when I was a kid. Must be ok if it's survived this long. . I actually use a natural phosphate free one.

Can't believe I'm buying into this laundry talk. What have you done to me WB? Bloody hell, I'm outa here!!!

Have a good one all... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at May 20, 2008 3:02 PM

Marcus, another point... that Drive stuff is clearly muscling your pheromomes under...I can think of no other explanation for that young lady's ultimatum. Surf can save you from that!! Whether based on evidence or faith, surely you should abandon Drive. Drive Drive into the Surf, and wash yourself clean of that pheromone-destroying ball-busting laundry pretender.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 2:24 PM

I see your infidelity extends to washing powders Marcus. How does the family regard the betrayal?

I recently had an epiphany and converted to Surf from Aware. This was as a result of a religious article in Choice magazine. I wonder if you would return to the Surf fold if you became acquainted with the evidence?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 2:14 PM

I have a 7.00 Kg Simpson Esprit and am a Drive concentrate boy. If I followed family tradition it would have been Surf.
I once had an RSVP date who after the 3rd or 4th outing gave me an ultimatum. She said I either change my brand of washing powder or that was it. She had super sensitive smell and claimed that the Drive smell was irritating her delicate sensibilities.

Where I lived in Moonee Ponds we had one of the special Hill's Hoists that operated by water pressure. Turn the tap on and the hoist would lift into the breeze.Well that was the theory.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 20, 2008 1:43 PM

Amber, maybe Virgil and Marcus and TW are onto something here! The thought of a tall, good-looking, muscly guy throwing washing into the machine (and hanging it out, and bringing it back in and folding it!) actually IS sexy. Hang on a mo though....didn't we say tall...good looking...muscly...do you Laundry Lads qualify there?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 1:37 PM

I just noticed that I put a comma in when I shoudn't have @ 9:34 AM!
My sentence was meant to read:
"Any tips you can give us girls?"
NOT "Any tips you can give us, girls?"

Amazing how patronising or insulting a sentence can become when you don't check your punctuation!
Sorry if any of you took offence.

Posted by: amberlight58 at May 20, 2008 11:09 AM

Junebaby at 11.45pm: Copycat! See mine at 12.33pm (midday Mon.)

Virgil: Ta mate. Have chosen the laundromat alternative, for whenever I'm not regularly mowing someone's lawn as barter for a bit of mending and a use of her machine during, and a baked dinner after.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 20, 2008 9:40 AM

So what do the rest of you blokes do about your washing?
Any tips you can give us, girls?

Although waterbombe, the thought of a tall, good-looking, muscly guy throwing washing into the machine (and hanging it out, and bringing it back in and folding it!) is not exactly unromantic!

Posted by: amberlight58 at May 20, 2008 9:34 AM

Ok boys, break a leg...go for it...the laundry discussion is ON!!

Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 8:49 AM

TW i bought a second hand Hoover washing machine for $80 about 2 years ago, they delivered it and installed it for me as well, that was in Rockingham WA

Posted by: virgil at May 20, 2008 1:09 AM

waterbombe, i'd say that it just shows that they have become romance intolerant!!!

And I luv romance, I will have what Bonjava and iaminperth are having....pure romance...sigh...have a lovely sleep all...jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at May 19, 2008 11:45 PM

Wetblanket at 10.37pm: Don't be so sexist!

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 19, 2008 11:30 PM

Well now I've read everything. Two men discussing laundry on a blog titled "Have we become romance intolerant?". I think this blog might have died, Karina.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 19, 2008 10:37 PM

Marcus at 7.46pm: Well, aren't you attentive! Laundromat to wash, to save my wrists (because our washing machine had been fairly new, so Joan took it.) Hills Hoist to dry, to save wasting the world's electricity in a tumble-drier. OK?

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 19, 2008 8:48 PM

timewarp1 at May 17, 2008 1:58 PM
Backyardd Hill's Hoist?
You were going to the laundromat a few weeks ago Warped; now the proud owner of a washing macine are you?

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 19, 2008 7:46 PM

Perth at 4.45pm: So what has that got to do with me, lass?

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 19, 2008 7:19 PM

It's called being sensitive and subtle, something a great big dinasour knows nothing about

Posted by: iaminperth at May 19, 2008 4:45 PM

Java and Perth - Oh yes please! I'll have what you're having! If only I can find her ...

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 19, 2008 12:33 PM

I agree Bon...it's the connection with another person, the unspoken feeling that gives you goose bumps, the scent of the person lingering when you are not together, the softness of a look...all the things that give you goosebumps, subtleties and feeling that person swirl around you filling your senses and making you smile. That lovely feeling of anticipation when you are going to meet again.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 19, 2008 10:43 AM

For me romance is not so much the physical aspect of a relationship but the emotional. Romance is the simplicity of two being together under a starlight sky....breathing deep of each others souls and swimming in the light of the others eyes.

When people talk of making out in public....this is not seen in my eyes as the essence of romance. It can be romantic. But there is certainly more to the romance than a social acceptance of physical attraction in Australian bars.....

Posted by: bonjava at May 18, 2008 6:47 PM

Marcus how wounded I feel - not!

If I had any interest in your opinion I might be tempted to rant in reply.
Thanks for the feedback.

Posted by: firelightlady at May 18, 2008 5:25 PM

Blog topic idea.....
What do we do differently as time goes by???
Eg...I drive more cautiously and now nag at my son to do the same!
Does our taste in music change? Mine did..I now love newer bands that my son has exposed me to and I prefer them to my old stuff from when I grew up. Does this mean I am living my life vicariously through my son? I do attend the same gigs as he does, but that is something we love having in common. Same question regarding movies/books/hobbies.
When younger, I thought I had to look great as I was young...now I am grown up, I accept how I look and am proud and don't hide it as I used to. Still haven't gotten all my wisdom teeth yet though!!!
There are heaps of areas which could be explored regarding how our attitude changes/mellows over time.....
Mayhaps this sort of topic has been addressed before, but I reckon it is timeless.
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 18, 2008 3:08 PM

I use the expression 'cutting someone else's grass' regularly....it must be a local version of the vernacular because everyone knows what it means here!
About the car racing speeds....my ex-husband dragged cars...I didn't race, but was very naughty once on the way back from Canberra....the car was a 1939 model with a big block chev fitted, the original speedo didn't work, but I am told the cars in the convoy were doing 140MPH trying to catch me. No idea how that translates into KPH. I wouldn't drive that fast now cos I don't think I have the reflexes and eyesight to be safe anymore!!!! I was only in my 20's back then. I now think I am a hoon when I get my car into 5th gear on an expressway...:-)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 18, 2008 2:45 PM

flightylady at May 17, 2008 9:33 AM

My point about early forgiveness was not personal. If we forgive early ie do not punish wrongdoers and lawbreakers or people who do not honour social contracts then we select for those characteristics and there there very quickly becomes no incentive to obey the 'laws' because there is no punishment. Society falls apart.
I don't think you have a clue about altruism, or evolution for that matter. I notice that where any knowledge or considered opinion runs out you segue smoothly into language mangling mixed up metaphor, waffle and bullshit.
I am still waiting to hear what you did 280 nomex-clad clicks in on a race track too... ;=]
Haha rcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 17, 2008 7:06 PM

firelight: I love your word 'blamestorming'. The best newbie word for me for years. Thank you for sharing it, and all your robust authentic language.

Wonder if my washing's dry? Love my genuine old Hills hoist, right out in the middle of my back-yard wind-tunnel.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 17, 2008 1:58 PM

Marcus, to clarify early forgiveness is not a sign of weakness or mutual altruism but an act of compassion to both oneself and the one who has wronged you.

Why? Too much headspace and distress is devoted here and life in general to incidents that occurred many years ago. 'Punishment' is the opposing balance of 'Wrong', I agree consequences is a better expression. Eye for an Eye philosophy in action is there to see in the Middle East where it was perhaps originally written.

Personally I will fight tooth, nail and claw for what I believe in however carefully pick my battles. The winner of a skirmish whilst celebrating often leaves other paths unguarded and so loses the war. If it is possible to reflect honestly on what went wrong in the skirmish instead of rampant blamestorming, it is easier to win the war.

The level of ones personal differentiation will drive ones own choices with regard to relationships. Possibly why I have such a mix of friends - relationships are not weighed on obligations, grudges etc; simply on human contribution e.g. I have a friend who is always broke, constantly late for any event sometimes by a week and is incapable of fidelity in intimate relationships. I welcome his friendship as he makes me laugh, gives life a sparkle at times and if I really ask for help will be there any time of the day in person or on the phone.
I do not however lend him money, invite him to formal events or try and set him up with women, even if he asks. Consequences of previous actions.

Society generally punishes cheats every few years, I believe they are called general elections. Then a few years later they see the original cheater in new clothes with a new figure and shiny hair and forgive them!

If society forgave earlier, but remembered longer and chucked them out sooner perhaps politics would change... unfortunately it is the comfortable home syndrome... 'It is bad, but not that bad and maybe he/she will change' which is why we have landslide elections - maybe the divorce of a Prime Minister - then the public mudslinging ensues!

Posted by: firelightlady at May 17, 2008 9:33 AM

Kitten

Thank you, the term seems to have sprung up quickly, many people seem to use it.

Posted by: virgil at May 17, 2008 9:32 AM

Cutting someones grass is the term used to refer to moving in on someones spouse or partner i.e. taking over some of their 'domestic duties' (I am thinking conjugals here!). It is an old military expression I believe Australian; when husbands were deployed a knowing gent (or colleague) would offer to 'cut the grass' and possibly perform other domestic tasks... yep many cases it was comradely caring and in other cases just a case of usurping the absent serviceman... in work situation it is when someone tries to take your job from under you when you are elsewhere. ;-)

Posted by: firelightlady at May 17, 2008 9:03 AM

...I thought it was stealing someone's beau...may have to look it up.

Posted by: istj54 at May 17, 2008 6:05 AM

'Cutting your grass' refers to the act of trying to move in on someone's spouse in their absence i.e. taking over their 'domestic responsibilities' or in a work situation trying to do their job better in a highly visible manner, again generally in their absence.

I believe it came from the military when soldiers were deployed elsewhere and someone would drop over to 'cut the grass'... and maybe take on some other domestic duties... OMO and FAB are not just washing powders but also signals.

As for natural selection and forgiveness etc; I don't believe that I suggested mutual altruism... merely that from this site, observation, and from life experience I have noted as others have, that constant rehashing of events prevents most from moving on and enjoying the fruits of life as they constantly monitor every relationship or contact for repetition, and perhaps in doing so inadvertently attract it. Without truly reflecting on ones part in a relationship breakdown and recognising the responsibility for that, how can it be possible to avoid repeating the same mistakes?

I will fight tooth, nail and claw for what I believe in however I pick those battles and do not bear grudges if someone wins a skirmish. Often when they do so and are celebrating leaving the gates unguarded, they concede the war.

Forgiveness does not equate to passivity or stupidity, it is an element of compassion in action. Respect for a different point of view or contrary behaviour, and learning something from it however painful. Taking strength from the other's weakness in seeing their side, the comparison adding a learning dimension to one's own view. It may seem like Sun Tzu on a blog but it works for me.

Natural selection means that those that don't contribute are generally ignored or replaced when the tribe no longer finds them tolerable - I believe it's called a general election - forgiveness goes a long way, but memory will last much longer!

Yes consequences is a good word... give them enough rope...

Posted by: firelightlady at May 16, 2008 11:30 PM

Virgil,

I think grass cutting refers to the act of cutting, painting or burning a rude word into someone's lawn in the middle of the night....unless it means something else, that I also am not aware of.

Posted by: kittenonthekeys at May 16, 2008 9:52 PM

I may be displaying ignorance of a social custom here but am not familiar with the other meaning of grass cutting, apart from the 4 weekly chore, which becomes more frequent in summertime with the cuttings deposited in the wheelie bin.

Posted by: virgil at May 16, 2008 9:24 PM

...I like the word consequences myself.

Posted by: istj54 at May 16, 2008 8:06 PM

Perhaps this is what is meant by forgiving but not forgetting. I think you can do as Firelight suggested and still exact a penalty, which demonstrates you haven't forgotten. (You genuinely don't give headspace to a planned malicious or grass cutting act. Posted by: firelightlady at May 15, 2008 7:54 AM ) . It's a good strategy for bringing up teenagers...I used to make my kids do the dishes or hang out the laundry as a penalty, which made me appear very happy (because I was, I had less housework to do)...so they had their penalty to curb their behaviour, and I was happy too. It does bother kids if you instigate penalties but don't act upset and aggrieved, particularly if THEY are doing some housework while YOU are quietly and happily reading a book or watching TV. I think it's a lot more effective than the guilt/'disappointed in you' trip I see some people do to their kids.So you don't have to toss out the idea of penalties, Marcus, you can still take action to encourage civilised behaviour even though you have forgiven...by forgiven I mean 'not let it upset or bother you'.

BTW I think it's important to distinguish between penalities and punishment....I think punishment is too easily linked in people's minds with forgiveness, so if they forgive, they don't punish. Well, I don't like to punish (Sorry to disappoint TW but I told you I was no Madam Lash), but I do impose penalties. There's an important difference in my mind.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 16, 2008 12:01 PM

Early forgiveness a good idea?
As separate from the sensible Darwinian reasons to be altruistic, generous or moral to each other, early forgiveness may be an unnatural and bad idea.
Natural selection favors tendencies to remember obligations, bear grudges, police exchange relationships and to punish cheats who take but do not give when their turn comes.
Reciprocal altruism always involves an element of punishment for cheats. If cheats are forgiven early, in other words not punished, then the society will very quickly become unstable.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 16, 2008 10:04 AM

Firelightlady, l look upon revenge as a waste of time and energy, not to mention unhelpful in getting over bad things in life......
I would rather simply have nothing to do with whomever has caused me hurt.

Sort of a take on the "fool me once" comment.

Works for me and would rather just get on with life instead of wondering and going over things.
Very much like your comment l guess, a life well lived is the something that l want.

Can't really be bothered with those who see something different as their ideal.............K..

Posted by: auntykaz at May 15, 2008 1:28 PM

the best revenge was early forgiveness and a life well lived.
: firelightlady at May 15, 2008 7:54 AM

Sometimes the blogs have hidden diamonds.

This is one of those times.

Posted by: virgil at May 15, 2008 12:14 PM

firelightlady, what a wise man your father sounds. His philosophies on "forgetting" and "forgiving" are brilliant. Wise words to remember indeed!

Posted by: traybit63 at May 15, 2008 10:42 AM

TW - thank you for the kind words, however I am also impulsive, suffer occasionally from a short attention span, dislike excessive admin, have times when I like my space, and am admittedly pretty flawed.

I don't need 'superman' just someone sane, fit and humourous. And who doesn't mind a woman with a career, family, and interests that are pretty full on.

Probably my father had a lot to do with my life. A firey but gentle Scot he always said that the best revenge was early forgiveness and a life well lived.
He never said anything about forgetting but I believe that it was his take on the 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me' philosophy!!!
It certainly annoys people more than other approaches, when they realise you genuinely don't give headspace to a planned malicious or grass cutting act... useful when you work in a competitive field! :-)

Posted by: firelightlady at May 15, 2008 7:54 AM

Marcus,
the only ones I can think of are F1 or drags, both possible not impossible. Did she say she raced or did it in practice, I once did 174.4 MPH in practice on stripes. Then again it could have been a speed run,on the flats. Firelight, I do not mind sending a stamp to find out privately,not for publication, let me know. I never doubt till proved wrong.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 14, 2008 10:41 PM

firelightladyMay 12, 2008 9:03 PM.
Surely no need for me to stamp. I and others, only want to know what racing car you have done 280 clicks in.
Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 14, 2008 9:17 AM

firelightlady at 7:04 PM:You're even more of an inspiration, every time you post.

I become progressively increasingly humbled, and hope there's a superman out there somewhere for you, and that you find him soon.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 13, 2008 10:37 PM

istj at 7.06pm: No, it actualy takes me most of 10 minutes from wash hands to sit to eat, even though I don't spend much time stirring. In the kitchen.

But my cooking's still much sooner finished, compared with the other things that I prefer doing, but get fewer opportunities. Really dawdle over them, to make them as enjoyable as possible for all concerned.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 13, 2008 10:10 PM

Firelight lady, re your oncology stint...
Things like that certainly make us take a breath and think about things.

Your cancer episode sounds as though it has given you a wonderful appreciation of life and its positives. Good on you for living through it and continuing to enjoy your life......
Watch those speed humps though !!.........K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 13, 2008 10:10 PM

Greetings All!!
Thought I'd pop in and say hi. Good to see many of the same people still here and a few newies...
Have a great evening.
Cheers!
GTTC

Posted by: greattimestocome at May 13, 2008 9:32 PM

...that makes you a six minute man, TW

Posted by: istj54 at May 13, 2008 7:06 PM

OMG AuntyKaz - yes that detail helped - I can forgive most things excepting boredom, very poor dating hygiene, and long term bitterness! Mea culpa. A thousand apologies.

And you are quite right I am slightly over active, always have been, not slowing down anytime soon... lol!

In my student days we were asked (if resistant to CP) to assist in the oncology wards as chicken pox had laid low most of the medical, nursing and volunteer staff. Having recently completed an ICU rotation I really believed that people couldn't be that sick if they weren't on life support.

Yep whizzed them out onto balconies and into sunshine, read them Jackie Collins / Harold Robbins & Dylan Thomas instead of Kubler-Ross (at their request), and we had wig swapping and make up sessions... we laughed a lot. Some died, some survived; at the end of the epidemic I knew what courage was & what denial cost. I also knew that life was to be lived.

When I got cancer myself 18 months later I knew that my life had always been a million miles an hour, and that until life support is in the offing it is always going to be. 20 years on, every day is still a bonus albeit a surprise sometimes.

I still believe in romance, integrity, men, good wine, fine meat, fresh fish, and dark chocolate. Science cannot explain everything. Soul is more important than looks. Heart is more important than profession; if in doubt ALWAYS get a second opinion. Presents should be opened Christmas Day not Christmas Eve. The first mouthful of wine is usually the best, and the lowest day for me is never as bad as someone else's day.
Going fast :-)

Posted by: firelightlady at May 13, 2008 7:04 PM

Kaz...my last FD talked on and on and on and on about the dreadful meat his octogenarian mum serves him for dinner when he calls in weekly....he's told her to get it at the butcher, not the super...you'd think she'd learn. I did. I was outa there fast.

Posted by: istj54 at May 13, 2008 6:55 PM

waterbombe at 2.16pm: Oh dear! Now that you've stopped biting I'll have to stop teasing you!

Maybe that'll leave me time to get a life ...

Must cook dinner and head off for tennis at 7.15. Tonight it's going to be

BILL'S CHUNKY PLUS

Dice 1/2 mug carrot and microwave 1 min on high, while dicing 1/2 mug kumera.

Add and microwave both for 2 min more while slicing 1 mug each celery and cabbage. Add, crack a fair bit of pepper over and Microwave for 1.1/2 min while slicing a whole shallot including top, and dicing 1/2 cup red capsicum.

Add and microwave 1 minute while choosing which can of Campbell's or Heinz Chunky soup for tonight, from the 6 or 7 favourite flavours kept in pantry. I buy a dozen or more when on special.

Stir microed veges to mix, and then add the can of soup evenly all over the top. Microwave 2 more minutes, while pouring half-glass ration of merlot, tidying leftover veg. back into fridge and setting table.

Stir soup to mix, and monster-spoon into 2 bowls - second for guest, or to reheat for lunch tomorrow.

Nutritious, quick to prepare, and flavoursome and varied enough for tucker ordinaire pour moi.

If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing as quickly and easily as possible, rather than fussing around with it all day, my Mum used to say. Seeyez.

Eat a slice of hot dry toast with it in cold weather - Burgen wholemeal with seeds my current favourite.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 13, 2008 6:12 PM

I think its more a personal thing, if your a romantic and affectionate person you hold hands and show your affection to your date. If they don't like it they will soon let you know.
Age doesn't matter, its how you fell about the person your with. who cares what anyone else thinks, they are probably just jealous anyway.

Posted by: libranmale at May 13, 2008 5:54 PM

Ha Waterbombe obviously a wash and a decent clothing was well out of range.....
as was conversation that didn't include the following : His mother. Her will. His mother. Her will. etc. etc.

Oh waterbombe, dost thou think my expectations are a tad high?????............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 13, 2008 4:06 PM

Romance was understandably dead at that dinner Auntykaz. I wonder what that guy thinks to himself before he goes on a date..."I know! I'll wear my oldest gear, no need to wash it, and I'll talk about my mum and how I've been left out of the will. That will entrance her! Romance is not dead, I'm living proof of that!".

I mean, for god's sake what do you EXPECT, Auntykaz....decent clothes and an interesting conversation???? What the?? Men would be entirely happy for a woman to turn up wearing cruddy clothes and bang on endlessly about her fish collection, dog and disappointing father all through dinner. Wouldn't they?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 13, 2008 2:46 PM

Gosh, TW , you got exciting there for a minute....
"(I know Waterbombe) Nearly well enough to sketch her from memory, patrolling the male geriatric ward in her smart warder's uniform with the stylish black leather belt pouches for her supply of the gags and restraint ropes that she was mentioning at 5.31pm" . Wooohooo... that image should keep you warm, you will save on the heating costs now winter is here.

Actually I'm kind, thoughtful, motherly, patient, understanding...I'm more of your Mother Teresa than your Madam Lash. If I was in the male geriatric ward I would be wheeling the old boys out (slowly, too, not at 100km/hr like Firelight would do it) to sit in the sun.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 13, 2008 2:16 PM

Marcus - If you would like to email I am happy to send you my racing creds and pics. Won't be posting them here. Started racing at 13. Still going well but time to hand over to talented offspring - both genders, I know my time is over.

Graffitti by whomever?? yes, very meaningful - not. I don't believe in the glass ceiling either.

Posted by: firelightlady at May 12, 2008 9:03 PM

Firelight, would it help you to also know that the same man complained about his mother and her will ad nauseum through the whole dinner ??? pretty boring as well as a poor dresser.......there is a difference between going to a first date dressed fairly badly, to addressing an unknown crowd, self assured of your place and yourself, as this man obviously was.
Millionaire or not, presenting well at a dinner date aint that big an ask ...........K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 12, 2008 9:01 PM

firelightmaybe May 12, 2008 7:53 PM

To have an RSVP blog first you need bloggers. By definition they are the blog and the peer group decides what is reasonable. RSVP merely provides a frame.

What did you have in mind as one of my more 'dubious' comments?

BTW. On dubious. What was that racing car you mentioned driving at 280 clicks in an earlier nomex attired post?

On topic.
There was a bit of femmo graffitti on the old Preston tram depot that read; 'romance; rape by seduction'

Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 8:37 PM

Well exceptions don't make rules, eh Marcus.....Plenty of newspaper letters are signed off with "name and address withheld", so not really an exception, The only time that they are always published is during an election l think...The fact that anonymity is allowed, whether it is here or in a newspaper letters section, ,is it REALLY that big a deal??? ....if you want anonymity it is there....... whatever the reason.....
No one makes you respond, you choose to. you don't have to................K.

Posted by: auntykaz at May 12, 2008 8:28 PM

WnW....how right you are...people seem to be getting intolerant to everything!...our postings are becoming a litany to all we don't tolerate...kinda sad to read...especially the ones who are so intolerant to other people's views and opinions...must be mens members to be so confident.

Posted by: istj54 at May 12, 2008 8:27 PM

Hardly ever venture to Fankston, Marcus, Mount Eliza is more my style..................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 12, 2008 8:14 PM

Marcus - new hobbyhorse please. The little tail wheels have finally fallen right off your invisible-blogger one, and it's dragging along the ground, making unpleasant scratching noises like a blunt gramophone needle. Bad enough to make the neighbours cranky.

Mate, even alzheimer-afflicted ancient old I can still remember what waterbombe looks like, from the last time she unveiled her profile for a minute.

Nearly well enough to sketch her from memory, patrolling the male geriatric ward in her smart warder's uniform with the stylish black leather belt pouches for her supply of the gags and restraint ropes that she was mentioning at 5.31pm.

But I guess that "week's rations" would require a matching haversack, cheaply made by illegal alians in one of the alphabet-soup countries that are now proliferating between Abbyssinia and Zimbia.

Enough of this teasing - gotta get back to earning the elusive dollar. Not much rest for this particular wicked Triplet.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 12, 2008 8:09 PM

Returned from the weekend to find we are totally off subject here and there is a lot of mud slinging! OK this is what I meant by us all being generally increasingly intolerant of all sorts of behaviour not just romance.

My profile is up there for anyone, hidden for a while but then I felt readers should be able to see where the views were coming from regardless - that's just my opinion. Having the profile up has meant people of all age groups have spent a stamp to say hello and get in touch offline as well. Fine by me.

As for Marcus' more dubious comments I would give people the same advice I give my kids - any attention even negative attention is still attention, ignore the pettiness, and move on. Sometimes he has a point to make, sometimes he is somewhat bitterly reminiscent, and sometimes derails the subject. Still it is a blog, everyone�s view is up there for people to read and readers will make up their own minds.

Yep, I have a responsible and highly visible job; my views are held openly. I don't have one set for work and one set for here. I work with all age groups and have to be able to hold my views up to professional as well as personal scrutiny - such is my life - if I can't do that then I shouldn't be blogging.

Teenagers have taught me a great deal about life, as have the elderly, the chronically sick, the emergency services workers, and the socially disenfranchised. I believe I am truly lucky to work in the public health system.

However back to romance...
I believe that manners and behaviour maketh the man, not clothes.

I recently attended a Gold Coast function where the international multimillionaire arrived in jeans and a t-shirt to deliver an unscripted, relevant, funny and sincere speech before mingling, eating/drinking a little and then flying off. No tux, no special requests, quite surprised at a) the crowd size, and b) the cocktail dress for a lunch'ish meeting.
Obviously he wouldn't have passed the first date test for many...What a shame�

Posted by: firelightlady at May 12, 2008 7:53 PM

Murkass, you posted to Decoratress: Still you suggest no substantive reasons why the right to annonymous blogging should be given. Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 2:13 PM

Have you got it yet? RSVP gives the right to blogging. You don't. You're not that important. Subject closed.

To Everyone-But-the-Triplets: Sorry to repeat this 3 times, you don't need to hear it that often because you LISTEN. The Triplets seem to need to hear things 3 times.... *sigh* ....

Posted by: waterbombe at May 12, 2008 7:32 PM

auntykaz at May 12, 2008 6:55 PM
Name and address witheld. Hmm. Fair point. That sometimes happens, but the persons identity is known if it is required, just held in confidence editorially.
Anyway, exceptions don't make rules.
Regulars here may know the other contributors but it isn't helpful for the watchers. Not everybody needs basic profile info but it makes the experience higher quality or even just plausible.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 7:30 PM

auntykaz May 12, 2008 6:22 PM
Well fitting Levis eh and black boots?
Sounds like a well appointed biker might be to your taste.
You must remember though that you are on the Peninsula and run the Frankston couture gauntlet when partner hunting.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 7:23 PM

No it isn't a big deal. Murkass keeps coming back to this over and over...he never learns from previous conversations...you need to learn to deal with the points made in the discussion, not with the person, Murkass. As I keep saying to the other two triplets....don't personalise everything. And another thing. You are not here on behalf of the entire male gender.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 12, 2008 7:11 PM

And the Alien resurrection continues.........what are we up to now, version 6 ????..............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 12, 2008 7:10 PM

As far as convention goes legit blogging is akin to newspaper article or letter writing, or political or scientific/academic comment or news/sports reporting. All of these have the author identified and subject to examination.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 2:13 PM

Errrrrr what about the ones who have "name and address withheld" after them.....

It is not illegal to post here with your profile hidden. At least Waterbombe is a real person.......
Is it really that big a deal??.................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 12, 2008 6:55 PM

Marcus, it was actually the sort of thing you would see average Joe wearing at the local footy...... Plain jeans. Plain T. Runners. All plain...... Not restaurant material.
Now if he was wearing a nice pair of Levi's, well fitting, maybe a Rivers shirt, and a pair of black boots, or again, Rivers casual shoes, not runners, then it would have been okay.....
It is all about dressing relative to the occasion l think.....not much effort required really........
If he had turned up in a poly suit and Homer tie, l think l would have run a mile.........K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 12, 2008 6:22 PM

Yikes, just tuned in......what a mess!! I went horse riding yesterday at Vasse near Busselton, saw a calf that was only born a couple of days ago. Now that was a nice day and the weather held off for long enough not to spoil anything. It was so nice to be in the open air on a large property again.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 12, 2008 6:02 PM

Thanks you for your kind words of support, Decoratress, although I don't feel I deserve them. I'm just trying to teach the Triplets to think...it's hard yards, I have to say.

Look at you Triplets, beating your chests, bellowing, issuing decrees about who can and who cannot blog, according to your own values...Is this yet another example of thinking everything revolves around you?This conversation about who is "permitted" to blog is immaterial. RSVP decides who blogs, not you guys.

Listen up, Triplets. That is MurkAss, Ogre and Warped. The game's up. We're not listening to misogynist crap, however you want to dress it up. If you spout it, expect a response. We will respond when we have time...because after all, we don't sit all day in front of a keyboard with not much better to do. Some of us have lives. And lighten up fer god's sake, Ogre...anyone would think your dummy had been snatched never to be returned. This is a blog, not Dunkirk.

And PS Ogre, I would respond to your earlier post today if I could understand it, but the language and the logic meander all over the place. I would need a compass, a map and a weeks' rations to make it all the way to the end.

PPS, Is Zimbia an Alien resurrected? She/he has all the signs of such. No sense, fake foreign English, nasty personalised comments...I think it's Aliane having another go. Top points for persistence, A, but maybe you should get a life.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 12, 2008 5:31 PM

OK

What I was saying, is that regular bloggers and I think it was waterbombe's profile that was being discussed, well that has been up long enough for most to get an idea what she is like.

So, it would only be the very new bloggers who havent seen her profile.

What I get concerned about is the multiple bloggers, whose idea it is to deceive others here.

I do not for one minute think waterbombe has ever, or will ever try to deceive anyone here.

This is a storm in a teacup, we should be going after the multiple bloggers. Not our regulars who are well known personally by many of the Victorian bloggers.

Posted by: virgil at May 12, 2008 5:15 PM

Virg.
Fine when you know the blogger personally. if you don't then all you have to go on is their profile, not having that then the words they say are the basis of judgement.
Lynaths recent post made that abundantly clear. Then others wish to judge on the basis of gender alone.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 12, 2008 4:29 PM

OG & Marcus....You don't need to jumped over the fence, there's a wild boar waiting to slaughters anyone, contradiction of her opinion giving her out a scheme of her own, into action being a Mayor, this Stress woman on the throne as Queen of Blog Diva thinking can draw line correcting anyone but look at her ideas does not support her own judgement applied herself, so for a reason to overcome the scandalous she loves bullying around. Decorat, back-off.

Posted by: zimbia at May 12, 2008 3:36 PM

Hidden Profiles

I see this as being a problem on the blogs, only when the blogger is not known to other bloggers.

I hid my profile a few months ago, as I was unwell, and receiving lots of kisses, etc, and just didnt know what I wanted to do with them, so I thought it would be good to be out of sight for a while.

As I had been here for a while, and well enough known by other bloggers, having met most Adelaide bloggers in person, (Willow, Amberlight, Slight Synch) I thought it would be OK.

maybe when a regular blogger hides their profile, its not such a big deal.

Posted by: virgil at May 12, 2008 3:14 PM

decorstress at May 12, 2008 12:48 PM
Honestly you have got your finger on it.
Still you suggest no substantive reasons why the right to annonymous blogging should be given.
I've been stalked by a woman and I fail to see how blogging or anything else would alter her stalking behaviour or make me more or less vulnerable. Please explain.
Like wise if you want to blog but not meet people, write a 'blogging only thanks' profile. Not that hard really.
And as for 'adolescent students' err come on babe. What are you on about? What danger do they pose apart from to themselves? A bit of teasing? I have dated fully visible senior teachers and heads from private schools who are 100% OK with it.
Privacy? RSVP is a private as you make it. The relative anonymity and privacy is one reason why the blogs are good. They embolden.
As far as convention goes legit blogging is akin to newspaper article or letter writing, or political or scientific/academic comment or news/sports reporting. All of these have the author identified and subject to examination.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 2:13 PM

MarcASS.....Reread if you can... and anyway do I need a point, you blog endlessly without one.. as your profile confirms.
This is boring.. I am going to count the nose hairs on my dog.

Posted by: eastofcbd at May 12, 2008 2:02 PM

eastofcbd at May 12, 2008 11:23 AM

And your point was? You have forgotten to include it.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 1:12 PM

Decoratress.@9.07 am
Not like you to come out to have a go at me because I agreed with Marcus for once, in a while. I have addressed myself to Waterbombe in a previous post if it is not watered to pieces. Nor do I feel obliged to comment on every post like some others, very often I agree with the contrary post expressed by the women. But I maintain her attack on me and then others was unwarranted just because it upset her political correctness stance.
eastofcbd@ 11.23am
How about giving me some examples of my gender bashing please?
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 12, 2008 1:12 PM

Waterbombe.your post @9.31pm, seems to identify your criteria of a male. Then in your post @ 9.47 pm you call for us to stop speaking for all men while you in your post start with (after the c/p? of Marcus said) "many women" then you basically agree with all Marcus said in his post. Then again you say "many men" in the same post now if that is not double standards it will stand as a good example. Then you accuse TW /L&T and me of being the Terrifying Triplets, and that is not a personal smear on the three of us? As to my appraisal of you. That is how you come over to ME in most of your posts, that is all I have to judge you on, be aware that the response was edited by the moderator. When women argue, and notice that most men had enough sense to stay out of this and the last one, it is called and has always been called a "cat fight", mens have been called a "dog fight". I agreed with Marcus, posted a long example of it (not edited in any way) got accused of always long posting, Then you felt obliged to have a spray of what I took as Misandrist derogatory comments against my comments. Now you substantiate where I have treated women on here as "trivial" I at worst treat them as a man when they want to attack me, as I am now responding to your attack on me.

To the rest of the Ladies accepted she does not speak for all of you. If any of you have felt I have at any time denigrated or been rude to you (Lynath excepted) apart in the instances described above, please let me know. As I do not speak for all men nor would I let them speak for me, nor do I take much notice of what someone described as the "soft cocks"amongst us. They only seem to come out when the barney is decided along the lines of weight of numbers and they know which side of the fence it is safe to jump to.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 12, 2008 12:49 PM

fartsandsquawks @ 11.37am...

blah blah blah yourself.. goodness, you do like your name-calling, don't you Marcarse.

As virgil & waterbombe have now both put forward reasons for hiding a profile which they find valid, I am obviously not "illogical and plain wrong" in everyone's opinion. I did not feel free to explain other's situations, but waterbombe has done that for herself.. & virgil has explained why he would consider hiding his profile.

If I was in the early stages of a relationship, I'd obviously be unsure how far it would progress. I'd still enjoy participating in the discussion on the blogs. Similarly, I'd not want to waste others' time in sending kisses, or mine in responding negatively to them.

If you want an example of a job where a visible profile on RSVP would be incautious, I would suggest that anyone in charge of adolescent students would be vulnerable to the consequences of being recognised on a dating site.
Likewise, someone who has been, or is being, stalked by a previous partner (& believe me, the police/judicial system are quite unable to deal with stalking in a practical sense).

Do you find it unreasonable for some people to require some privacy? Or for someone to wish to continue using a blog site where they have made friends & found the interaction & information learned to be useful?

This seems to be a particular hangup with you. Why so, Marcus?

A time honoured convention?
I don't find you very open to anything new, Marcus... that you consider yourself & others 'bound' by a 'time honoured convention' says to me that you are a traditionalist who has enormous difficult in stepping outside the square. Some call it rigid.

"Sorry but you are illogical and plain wrong"... barfsandsnorts
"Sorry but you are inflexible and plain boring"... dorkdismisstress

Cheers

Posted by: decoratress at May 12, 2008 12:48 PM

decoratedmess at May 12, 2008 9:07 AM

You wrote; "If you can see no valid excuse for a hidden profile..I've listed them before (several times). High profile jobs; fledgling relationships; positions of authority where junior colleagues or students may use the personal information against the member...

? This is too difficult to understand ?"

Blah blah blah. Decodrear. Those above are not valid reasons for hidden blogging, just copouts. If you are going to argue vicariously you need to back up those reasons with some underpinning logic or examples not just oxymorons. Why would a high profile job be an issue? Give me three good reasons please. People in high profile positions are by definition engaged in public life.

Sorry but you are illogical and plain wrong. To blog with credibility, accountability and manners you must have a visible profile or supply your full name and an email address. This is a time honoured convention for public comment of all sorts.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 11:37 AM

Og and Murkaas (love that WB), get over yourselves. Neither of you are above some gender bashing. Thank goodness for the men who have good traits, unlike many I have met on RSVP.
Listen to Wb.. it is not all about YOU. I can agree or disagree with whoever I want, whenever I want... nose/ear hair is not the worst thing I could say about SOME men on here. Maybe the one who started(his suggestion) a relationship and I found him the next week with a new profile, perhaps the guys whose wives didn't understand them, the ones who get a notch on their belt after a few dates and just disappear, or the ones who put their ages down by 5 to 10 years, have photos I saw on here 10 years ago. The best ones are the tryhards who want a woman years younger than themselves... what a joke they are... Can't regain your youth like that you would be Tarzans.
I have 3 best friends, 1 is a woman and 2 are men... I love men.. just not dickheads.

Posted by: eastofcbd at May 12, 2008 11:23 AM

If i met a woman and was looking to date further, as a mark of respect, I would hide my profile until I was again looking to meet someone else, ie at the end of the relationship, which may be 5 years or more down the track.

The RSVP blogs are not exclusively for the singles, topics covered are good for many people to state their opionions.

Posted by: virgil at May 12, 2008 10:10 AM

Romance intolerant or just intolerant in general? mmmm ..........

Posted by: woodnwine at May 12, 2008 10:04 AM

oldergent @ May 11, 11.46pm...

I'm flabbergasted OG.
Waterbombe at 9.47pm put forward the notion that women have different approaches to men, to resolving disputes, ie...

"Many women are more likely than most men to attempt to resolve disputes in an amicable way...they place a high value on belonging to a group in which they experience support and care...when they experience conflict, they move towards mediation and understanding another's point of view fairly quickly...they do that through listening and through empathising...that's what you are seeing, Marcus. You are interpreting that behaviour within your own value system...elite individuals, hierarchies, confrontation, and advances on the western front or something similar."

OG... waterbombe has every reason to have a hidden profile & it has nothing to do with intestinal fortitude. This subject of hidden profiles has been thrashed out ad nauseam in these blogs, with it being apparent there are those whose profiles are hidden for valid reasons & those who hide them for the purposes of deceit.

Waterbombe is one of the most intelligent women I've ever had the good fortune to meet. She is also extremely attractive.. & has a generosity of spirit I've found
extraordinary & inspirational.
She's correct. Women look for solutions to disagreement. In my experience, men look to 'Win'.

Unsurprisingingly, she has found rsvp very successful, & while it's not my place to speak for her.. believe me, she is not short of admirers or would-be dates!

Patronising? She has every reason to send some back your way.
Baggage against men in general? No.
'Take it out on you'? No, OG.. perhaps you are feeling defensive?

She has addressed patronising remarks from Marcus & yourself.. & is merely reflecting your own attitude back to you.
She doesn't need to "get over" anything... or especially "get a life"... she has a busy professional & social life which, personally, would exhaust me!

I suggest your snide remarks be turned around & viewed subjectively. If you can see no valid excuse for a hidden profile.. think harder OG. I've listed them before (several times). High profile jobs; fledgling relationships; positions of authority where junior colleagues or students may use the personal information against the member...

? This is too difficult to understand ?

Waterbombe is not, nor purports to be, speaking for 'the rest of the females'.
She's too intelligent for that.. though perhaps those less so have missed the fact?

Patronising?
Possibly.
I hope not.. I'll leave that to others.

Posted by: decoratress at May 12, 2008 9:07 AM

Thanks for the advice, OG, but take it yourself...I don't need it. I've been in a relationship with a lovely man for the last 6 months...we met on RSVP, which is why I still blog. I've never had any trouble attracting men, either, OG, so "the baggage I have against men in general" must be invisible. I do know a lot of men through my job...and that's how I know you Triplets don't speak for many blokes... my partner and my workmates would be appalled that you think all men agree with you.

When women disagree on a point, as they do, (being human beings with intelligence and different experiences), some guys call it a "cat fight". That term denigrates the disagreement and treats women as trivial...that's what you and TW and Murkass are doing, OG, and THAT is why you get the responses you do. Why oh why don't you guys READ something and educate yourselves fer god's sake? A piece of advice...oh, hang on, I don't need to type it, I can cut-and-paste...if you ever display any sign of a trait that would be attractive to a woman, you could hold out hope to be in a relationship.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 12, 2008 8:47 AM

hey OG, Waterbombe doesn't speak for me, lighten up. I don't write great long self serving posts, or I hope I don't!! I think Marcus is more than capable of defending himself and I am sure most of his posts are just designed to stir the pots at times.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 12, 2008 7:22 AM

Hi all. Just caught up on this blog from the start, and it's a total hoot. I love it! Exactly what a blog should be. Totally tongue in cheek, and that's not tonsil hockey, Hermione.

My most enthusiastic congratulations to Mr S. You're excelling yourself on several fronts this weekend, mate, and I'm deeply impressed.

Perth, you were commenting on my always calling you Doll. Our readers of mature age will remember Ol' Blue Eyes and the Red Herring in "Guys and Dolls" back in the 50s. The movie also involved a crap game, if I remember correctly.

Well after this blog I'm going to call you China Doll, like the ones that no-one's allowed to handle in case they're dirty, so the doll just stays up on the shelf on display, and no-one gets to play with it.

PS: On topic and a more serious note, I think it's useful to contrast 3 viewpoints:

* the people who pash etc in public as a piece of exhibitionistic street theatre. The effect on the onlookers is the main purpose, and the enjoyment of the actual act is just a fringe benefit for the unpaid actors;

* the people like my Ex. who are so inhibited and embarrassed about drawing any attention to themselves out in public that they would never hold hands, let alone exchange a quick peck where anyone might see.

She was even embarrassed once when I walked in off the street into a mall with her, both aged 50-something, and stuck my sunnies up on top of my head till I came out again. "Put your shades away in your pocket" she hissed "You're not a teenager now! You'll draw attention to yourself!"

* unselfconscious people like Virgil and my boy's godmother, who was like a sister to me, and at 20something always automatically gave me a hug and kiss when we met, and took my arm as we went to cross a street. And said "Thanks" quietly when I gave it a squeeze in my elbow. Them's my kind of people.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 12, 2008 1:34 AM

waterbeetle May 11, 2008 9:47 PM

I'm glad you agree about women proliferating horizontally. I have posted on this numerous times. There was a gang bang post about Alpha Beta Delta types and heirarchies a few weeks ago
Women organise horizontally because they are co-operative, collaborative and consensual and generally less egotistical and combatative. It has something to do with the easy work back on the Savannah with youngsters gathering carbohydrates, digging for roots, tubers and grubs while the men were protecting and the difficult, dangerous skilled work of hunting protein. And your sex hormones.
Male fights sort out a dominance heirarchy which is how we work. It is not just my interpretation but psychologists, zoologists, social anthropologists and anyone with powers of observation and half a brain. Our processes are different. The out of date coprolitic feminist thinking you epouse is embarrassing for erudite females with some proper anthropological insight.
And of course I look at things from a male perspective. I have balls and am a masculist; necessary here to counter the attempts to feminise male sexuality and masculine perspectives and to see them as aberrant.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 12, 2008 12:05 AM

Hello all... Been away for some time but am finally back.. Did I hear some of you say bugger? Certainly hope not!!!

Have read a few of the recent posts and was tempted to comment but common sense has prevailed and will read some more properly tomorrow night (when I have more time) to make sure I have it right in case I put foot in mouth so to speak. Some interesting input in all 3 topics for a change.

Welcome to a lot of newbies...

Hope all of you mothers had a wonderful Mothers Day.

Cheers...."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at May 12, 2008 12:04 AM

Marcus.
since your post of @2.26 pm I have to sadly conclude that in this instance you are right, the majority of women on this site have stopped the cat fight amonst themselves and turned on the common enemy. Apparently you and me and poor old TW(representing the male faction they dissagree with) even thought he has retired from the field in a past post. So it is left to waterbombe to speak for the rest of the females even thought she does not have the instestinal fortitude to show her profile. To my mind there can be no excuse for that.

Waterbombe, if you ever display any sign of a trait that would be attractive to a man even one as old as me, you could hold out hope to be in a relationship. You would have to change your equally rigid femme attitude you label me as a male with. Surprised,not really, your patronising, yes you are, but neither Marcus or I had anything to do with your past misfortunes and the baggage you have against men in general so why take it out on us.
My suggestion get over it and get a life, and let the rest of the women with a profile state their case.
As to the dress sense of some men, no respect for themselves or the woman they expect to meet.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 11, 2008 11:46 PM

auntykaz at May 11, 2008 9:50 PM

I hope the blokes are listening up. All these style crimes we can commit...

Nothing too much wrong with a restaurant I suppose if you have been speaking on the phone. A casual coffee can keep things informal.

That tee shirt he wore, was it promoting his favorite Death Metal band ? I would rather a Metallica T, Levis and Royals than a bloke fronting wearing a polyester suit with a Homer Simpson novelty tie.
Seriously, I have been known to ask "what were you thinking of wearing?" to at least allow for coordination.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 11, 2008 11:38 PM

Ha Marcus, what is wrong with a first date in a restaurant ?? Not about setting any bar at all...just dinner. Also the first time l had done a first date in a restaurant, usually have coffee. So it wasn't a biggie really, just something different.
And trust me they were not stylish runners,nor was the t shirt a button up polo.... jeans, basic, a t shirt and runners.
Sort of the type you wear to ummm run, jog, you know??
Nothing stylish about it Marcus, nothing at all.A bit grotty in fact..............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 11, 2008 9:50 PM

Ogre and Murkass, M said :"You notice when there is a dispute among the women .... they will try to sort it out and flatten things down so that the heirarchy stays more or less horizontal and they can then again advance against a common adversary on a broad front".

Many women are more likely than most men to attempt to resolve disputes in an amicable way...they place a high value on belonging to a group in which they experience support and care...when they experience conflict, they move towards mediation and understanding another's point of view fairly quickly...they do that through listening and through empathising...that's what you are seeing, Marcus. You are interpreting that behaviour within your own value system...elite individuals, hierarchies, confrontation, and advances on the western front or something similar. You remain rigid in your beliefs and values, and unfailingly interpret everything from a so-called "male" (i.e. your) perspective. There are many men who would not care to have you represent them, I'm sure, so I think you should cease speaking for all men and speak for yourself. You really don't have half the world as your back-up; as far as I can see, you only have Ogre and TW. You three are trying really hard to be The Terrifying Triplets, it would seem. Ha ha.

Murkass, If I ever see a post from you that shows you have learned something and broadened your thinking I will be very surprised. Patronising? Yes; but aren't you?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 11, 2008 9:47 PM

Marcus... Finally I have been acknowledged by you... I have made it in the Blog World. My life is complete, my work is done. Oh btw... nice glasses you can cut them in half and made 2 pairs. "Can't live without me" blah blah blah then thank God I must be dead. Think have drunk too much Green Ginger wine through Queen Elizabeths bladder. Greys Anatomy is over and Brothers and Sisters is on. Try the dark side of TV.

Posted by: eastofcbd at May 11, 2008 9:38 PM

Looking down at his penis with what seems like intent to introduce it to the woman he has met 10 mins ago is not the first sign of being male, Marcus. It is the first sign of being a complete idiot, as Perth correctly intuited.

The first sign of a male being male is the deep voice, physique, beard growth, bloke's clothing, etc..those are generally the first signs that the person I have gone to meet is male. I don't need to see any appendages at all to be fairly confident I am meeting a male.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 11, 2008 9:31 PM

eastofcbd at May 10, 2008 11:04 PM

I love the line "I am not a prude... BUT blah blah..disgusting aren't they girls blah blah..hair blah, I'm 58 blah blah at the first sign of a male being male.

Haha.
Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 11, 2008 8:44 PM

auntykaz at May 11, 2008 4:21 PM
A first date a dinner date in a restaurant?
That is setting the bar a bit high. Wouldn't it be better to do something more casual?
Anyway jeans and style runners with a polo shirt minimum, preferably button up (worn 'out'), is good enough these days for many a linen tablecloth eatery.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 11, 2008 8:29 PM

Kaz

You are absolutely right, to turn up to a restaurant for a first, or early date with someone new in jeans & t shirt is not a good look.

Would be different if the couple are going steady and both had been out all day together.

Posted by: virgil at May 11, 2008 6:55 PM

Marcus.
How true, I learnt the lesson as a youth in Darwin. One night I witnessed an altercation between two women over one of the local lovers.
Now Spider (so called because he had an uncanny likeness to a daddy long legs) had been romancing Skinny Saddie ( about a foot taller than Spider) she had a definate Praying Mantis look about her. At the same time he had become involved with Fat Fanny, around 4'10" and 20 stone, thus setting the scene for disaster, especially in a town like Darwin. Now Bandy Mark, (another Lothario Lover of some repute) had desired both these beauties, (Darwin at the time had a ratio of about 1 available woman to 140 men), hence the truism "there aint no such thing as an ugly woman" arose.

Spider was in the Saloon bar lairing it up (beer cost a penny extra in there) waiting to meet fat fanny when both Skinny Sadie and Fat Fanny converged to the side entrance of the saloon, as Bandy Mark spilled out of a taxi. Bandy had coverted both these beauties He could not miss the opportunity to spill it on Spider and told our ladies of Spiders infidelity to them. To which our beauties in the time honoured traditions of that town set upon each other, as was the procedure of battle of the fair sex in those days it was to strip the garments from each other, now Fat Fanny because of her lower centre of gravity had the advantage and had denuded Skinny Sadie, but in desperation Sadie grabbed the top of Fat Fannies knickers (being of extra strengh elastic to cover the girth) and pulled hard, the net effect was that it acted as a shanghai and she delivered an unfair head butt to Fat Fannie. Fortunately for Fanny, just at this time Spider had heard the cheers and exhortations of the crowd of erectile enhanced men witnessing the affray. Coming out to find his paramours belabouring each other and undoubtably spoiling his imminent pleasures (due the blood and bruises they had inflicted on each other). Full of grog and and feeling indestructable he advanced with arms outspread to keep them apart saying "Ladies "" Ladies" (fatally almost) I am not worth fighting over. I have never ceased to wonder how women do it but simutaniously they both turned on him, agreed with him, Skinny with her talons and Fat with fist clenced.. Skinny raked him down both sides from the top of the head down to his shorts and Fat broke his left Jaw with a glorious round arm right, dropping him on the footpath and giving him concussion. Bandy Mark sensing victory came in to congratulate them and copped the same thing with the same result. Awaiting the ambulance and cops the ladies were both deposited on the public bar (as is) and were roundly regaled with grog as the best stoush seen in a dogs age, to which to their credit they accepted with modesty. The ambulance duly carried the thunder struck lovers off to the hospital. The cops, always late, had to listen to the witnesses (and curse that they had missed it) before deciding that the shift had finished and stayed to celebrate with the rest of us. Of course the annual peeing competition had to be deffered till the next weekend.
So mate to stay on blog I guess romance is not as tolerant as it used to be .
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 11, 2008 5:40 PM

What about the guy who turns up for a first date....yes a diiner date in a restaurant, dressed in jeans, tshirt and runners. And not terribly tidy at that.....
What sort of first impression is that saying to someone you have spoken to on the telephone several times ?
Nothing wrong with jeans and a t shirt, but l don't think that a restaurant for dinner is the place.........K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 11, 2008 4:21 PM

Poochinperth and Doll - I could be DollyPooch, or PoochyDoll - what a laugh the names some people think up. My pooch has neat ears and always a clean nose and her nails are trimmed regularly. Lol. Think it's called basic hygiene or something silly like that.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 11, 2008 2:27 PM

oldergent at May 11, 2008 10:39 AM
Ogre.
You notice when there is a dispute among the women we observe here, including Chris (Lynathdiary) who is Alpha, they will try to sort it out and flatten things down so that the heirarchy stays more or less horizontal and they can then again advance against a common adversary on a broad front. :-}
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 11, 2008 2:26 PM

Lol Marcus, I thought it was ridiculous at the time sitting in the Dome at Subi with this bloke looking down at his old fellow every couple of minutes and then looking up at me trying to get me to look down at it also. I should have said 'pull it out and show me, or rather show everyone here in the coffee shop and we'll take a vote on it". Stupid person, if that's all he's got to offer in a relationship he will need to find somewhere else to put it, thank you very much.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 11, 2008 2:23 PM

Hey Virgil, I actually didn't want to know about his plumbing or anything else....yuk! Also the nose and ear hair stuff is not attractive, a bit like dirty fingernails, not necessary and easily fixed. I mean a tidy shirt and good grooming doesn't cost much surely and most men are quick to point out a woman's faults. Just a little bit of grooming, i.e., teeth, fingernails, nose and ear hair would go a long way as it's all part of the presentation of that person. You look pretty well presented Virgil, do you have hair hanging out of your nose and ears and I'll bet your fingernails are clean when you go on a date.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 11, 2008 1:47 PM

Hello OG. Thanks for the compliment, very kind of you. I can assure you I don't look forty, but most people pick me for vey late forties early fifties. I think a lot of it is to do with attitude and how busy you are and I live and work with teenagers so the attitude has to be right and talk about busy! I think the kids of today are getting a bit short changed at the moment and some are finding things extremely hard. Thanks for the compliment thought, it's nice. I have Mums Day today with quite a few people and heaps of food so it's all good and looking forward to the first arriving. Have a good one everyone.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 11, 2008 1:43 PM

virgil at May 11, 2008 11:46 AM

Padre. On plumbing. I have had the 1st date experience a number of times when a woman about my age has allowed in the initial conversation that she is not/not yet menopausal.
MS

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 11, 2008 1:41 PM

poochinperth May 10, 2008 8:36 PM

Good grief. Meeting that hairy 64 yo bloke intent on letting you know he was fully functional must have been frightening.
The only thing I can think of was that he mistook you for one of the mature, open and funloving woman who enjoy a bit of banter that I know are about on RSVP over there.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 11, 2008 1:39 PM

Perth

Its interesting, the stories of first meetings, things we never usually hear, blokes telling women their plumbing is in good working order.

Ohhh Pete Townshend from the Who once sang "i hope I die before I get old".

Interesting that you check out ear and nose hair hmm bit yucky for my taste.

Posted by: virgil at May 11, 2008 11:46 AM

Hi Perth.
Thanks for the check out, now you know I am me. I could not believe your stated age in your post so had to check your profile, you only look 40. I also like how direct you are with no bull. I find it strange to have the women at it again, I thought that was the perogative of the Alpha Bulls, lol
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 11, 2008 10:39 AM

Ye Gads!..

..from reading these blogs my 'intuition' tells me that maybe online dating is a slippery road downhill to 'neverventureland'..instead of 'nothingventurednothinggainedland'..!!

if only we could read between those invisible lines on the profiles..

nw x

.

Posted by: naturalwoman08 at May 11, 2008 12:06 AM

Hey Bunburyist,

Maybe your guy was a relly of Count Dracula and looking for a bit of a snack!! Public affection comes in many shapes...I have no problem with a hug or a stolen kiss here and there, but I am not into the whole constant touchy, feely stuff.

I would like to think that a woman would be holding me up as a trophy......except it might be that she won last prize at a desperados convention....sort of similar to winning money for getting the horse that runs last in the Melbourne Cup sweep in the office!!

Bob

Posted by: notgodsgift at May 10, 2008 11:38 PM

Iaminperth..8.36pm "ut that's not in public bunbury!!!!! I had coffee with a 64 year old who looked lovely in his picture. Within the first half hour he was telling me that 'everything worked down there' as his eyes kept flitting to his crotch."

ugh! how awful for you..it reminds me of a hairy situation a few years ago..my mother enlisted the help of an old married male friend of hers.. (74).. to do some 'handy' work at my house..trouble is he took 'handy' to another level.. ..everytime my mother turned her back or was out of sight he made a grab for my crotch! my retorts of disgust didn't dissuade him..it only seemed to encourage him!.. I'll never forget the glint in his beady little eye..

it was an uncomfortable situation to be in as he and his wife were good friends of my mother's..eek!.. he was the epitome of a 'dirty old man'.. looking back it was like being in a parody of the Benny hill show.. senile sleaziness..ugh! ..

here!here! I hear some of the gents say..here's a bloke to be admired for his wicked ways..age shall not weary them or whatever..sheesh!..

I can't ever imagine being 74 and grabbing some poor young guys crotch..not blatantly anyway..maybe under some wicked "Mother and Son' guise..!! hehe

btw..would that be classified as cheating? nw x

Posted by at May 10, 2008 11:07 PM

Posted by: naturalwoman08 at May 10, 2008 11:26 PM

Perth

I knew the list was a joke, but that one, like a lot of things you say, was right on the money.

The holding hands debate is also very interesting, particularly the strength of feelings about it.

I wonder if the degree of attraction of the bloke had much to do with the discomfort of holding hands?

It is very interesting to hear what is sometimes said on coffee dates, like "hey Ms first date, the old fella is in good working order", and I think we have a lot in common.

Posted by: virgil at May 10, 2008 11:09 PM

Oops musta pressed the button..Often during the first telephone conversation, kissing, cuddling, libido etc is mentioned by some guys.That is the end of the conversation and the prospect of meeting for me. Like you iaminperth I am 58 and will have to steal a well used line quoted by men on here, I am a young 58. The nose and ear hair is a definite turn off..Gross. I am no prude and enjoy the intimate side of a relationship as much if not more than most but it is not something I like to discuss without knowing someone. I love the line "this has never happened before" when there is a malfunction in the love dept... but they just happen to have a little blue pill in the pocket. Nothing wrong with a bit of hand holding, and even a cuddle after a few dates but I think in our mature years a little decorum (do you like that word) is prudent.

Posted by: eastofcbd at May 10, 2008 11:04 PM

Looks like the blogs are dead for the night. I can't believe it when people cannot blog after work, I think they should look for a new moderator or tell this one to get off his/her butt.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 10, 2008 11:00 PM

iaminperth@8.36
Haha, that was so funny. I had tears running down my face.
Nose and ear hair and wondered when that all sprouted. The whole scene was funny.
I havent laughed this much since I watched the movie Wild Hogs.
Just loved it!

Posted by: lonelyheart44 at May 10, 2008 9:48 PM

bunburyist May 10, 2008 8:16 PM

Looks like you didn't get that 4.30 PM date today and are missing it.

Cheers Marcus

poochinperth May 10, 2008 8:29 PM

Good grief. That date with the hairy 64 year old bloke with an aberrant libido and working parts must have been a shocker.
He probably mistook you for one of the mature, fun, bantering, mentally healthy women you often find on RSVP.

Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 10, 2008 9:22 PM

Yes J.L you could try sitting on your hands...or find a bigger table so they can't reach across .As for not smiling or laughing I can't imagine that at all.I suspect that you are one of those happy people who was born smiling.

Posted by: abckenny at May 10, 2008 9:08 PM

I know that that's not in public Iaminperth....just being silly. That's just me and my (sick) sense of humour trying to make the point that a lot of people have double standards and that romance has sufferered and chivalry, eg, a man putting his arm around a woman to guide her to a restaurant table - thereby touching her in public without her permission, has gone by the wayside.

No schmaltz please, we're skittish.

Posted by: bunburyist at May 10, 2008 9:00 PM

...but that's not in public bunbury!!!!! I had coffee with a 64 year old who looked lovely in his picture. Within the first half hour he was telling me that 'everything worked down there' as his eyes kept flitting to his crotch. I asked him what was working down there ? as I checked out his nose and ear hair and wondered when that had all sprouted. He replied with ' you know down there '. I said that I hoped it wasn't working at the moment, gave him his $3.00 for the coffee, said thanks but no thanks and left. He followed me and said he thought we had a lot in common, I said we had nothing. He disagreed. I wasn't after a debate, again said thanks, but no thanks and drove off. What was he thinking, he's 64 and I know I am 58 and a bit overweight but for heavens sake how repulsive.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 10, 2008 8:36 PM

I think it's good when the person does put that in their profile as then you know where you stand from the start. There is one in particular I would avoid 'have a very high libido like to keep my partner happy....this has caused a lot of problem in past relationships...happy...problem..does he not think there may be a link. However, I do admire the honesty and would avoid him like the plague. So honesty is good but I do know what you mean, it's too in your face for the first meeting and makes everyone uncomfortable, or it would me anyway, and seems like a whole lot more. I also think that as you get older you are inclined to wonder why these people just don't get over themselves and maybe if they took more interest in the other person that in turn would stir affections in their partner.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 10, 2008 8:29 PM

..Then adjust the lapels of his coat, then they would walk in, often hand in hand. This would be couples in their 70's to 80's

Posted by: virgil at May 9, 2008 11:46 PM

Virgil..

I agree..it makes me feel fuzzy wuzzy inside too..to see 'older' lovers holding hands as they walk..but apart from innocent traditional olde worlde displays of affection..it probably displays ingenuity in that they are probably propping each other up in the process!!

love to the 'older' generation!

nw x

Posted by: naturalwoman08 at May 10, 2008 8:29 PM

I was just thinking about an old Sex and the City episode I saw on television in Los Angeles about a week ago - the one where Samantha won't hold her boyfriend's hand in public even though they've been dating for weeks; and that led to the thought that many women won't hold hands on a date, yet are less discriminate about where they put their mouths. Ooohhhhaaaahhhh....

Posted by: bunburyist at May 10, 2008 8:16 PM

Iaminperth, I agree with you about the profiles that say 'not afraid to show affection in public', so too the ones that say 'I'm a very sensual person'. To me, this is something that men say because they think it's what women want, ie, a man who's in touch with with his sensitivity, sensuality etc...or it means that these men are very hands-on in public; arm around the waist; holding hands; hand on the thigh; constantly stroking the upper arm between the elbow and the shoulder (so annoying), and this is on the second date! I always reject kisses from men who make a point of saying that they're sensual or very affectionate; cuddling on the bloody sofa all the time - give me a break. Men won't cuddle after sex (neither will I for that matter) yet want to cuddle on the couch?

A male friend of mine once picked up my arm and kissed me on the inside of the wrist. It was a silent, simple 'thank you for being a friend' gesture, but it is still one of the most romantic things anyone has ever done to me, so I know that despite my earlier post recounting how I flinched at a date kissing my neck, I know there's still a romantic somewhere inside me.

Posted by: bunburyist at May 10, 2008 7:48 PM

Kenny, I think you may be right...next time I will sit on my hands....and definitely no smiling or laughing:))

Posted by: istj54 at May 10, 2008 7:27 PM

I think what it is showing here is that a lot of people are very uncomfortable with public displays of affection. I know if I see a profile that says not afraid to show affection in public I think no thank you. Unwanted public displays can be very threatening and certainly not taking into consideration the other persons feelings.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 10, 2008 7:11 PM

I was waiting for a taxi with a man I was on the third date with, when suddenly I felt something on the back of my neck. I flinched then quickly swiped my hand over the area, thinking it was a leaf or a bug, but he was trying to kiss my neck and I nearly whacked him in the mouth.

His excuse was that it looked so nice that he had to kiss it, but for me it was a signal that he was going to be too touchy-feely in public for my liking and I ran a mile. So much for spontaneous romance; guess I'm too en guard for such gestures.

Posted by: bunburyist at May 10, 2008 6:56 PM

Could this be the dance of intimacy we are seeing here, a couple meet, equal interest, maybe the man is distracted, causing the woman to move closer, or the other way around?
Unless both keep a respectful distance at the start, and for a while, one of the participants will feel smothered, and the other woukd feel un loved?

Posted by: virgil at May 10, 2008 6:54 PM

Virgil, the earlier post re: what women want was just a cut and paste joke, it's not what I want, it was just a joke not to be taken seriously. I like people who can just get into the moment whatever you are doing and not just skimming the surface. I mean if you are with someone, enjoy being with them for that time. If you go somewhere enjoy where you are. I think too many people are looking for what is wrong today and not looking for what is right. I'm sure if we did a list and wrote the positives and the negatives of a particular moment the positives would win. It's just unfortunately we remember the bad bits without celebrating the good bits enough. The poor guy who crashed to the ground did have a lot of good points as well but unfortunately that trait overtook them all as it was so extreme for me but that does not diminish the fact that he is a decent person, just not for me.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 10, 2008 6:45 PM

How interesting that a show of affection by some can turn into a threat. I am sure that the guys have stories as well about 'over the top' actions by women which have made them feel threatened and insecure. My experience was so silly that he even wanted to hold hands when I was trying to teach my dog to walk on lead when she was very young. As a consequence she broke free and ran off in the park to join her friend a large rottweiler. When I called her back she came immediately with the rotti in tow full speed, playing and biting each other and both ran full pelt into him while he was standing there glaring at me for not holding his hand. They flattened him in the park, up his legs went and down he came with a crash. The rotti owner and I are still friends and see each other regularly in the park, lol.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 10, 2008 6:39 PM

I agree with iaminperth and waterlily, when it comes to guys who feel a need to be all over you!
Holding hands is not a problem, unless it's like perth's over-the-top experience. How annoying!
Or unless it's soon after you meet them and before you've given any impression you wish to have some kind of relationship with this person! After all, very few friends hold hands.

I believe that the need for a man to be all over you, is less about affection and more of a warning to other guys e.g. "She's mine; hands off".
There are plenty of women who are like this also.

As a person who grew up in a family where you were more likely to be hit than hugged, I feel really uncomfortable with the "all over you like a rash" behaviour.
It actually makes me feel panicky and suffocated. (A bit like the poor cat and the skunk Pepe La Peau! Sorry about the spelling!)

I think that people who feel the need to have to be all over someone, are either very insecure people, or feel very insecure about their relationship.
I tend to think it would be easy for this behaviour to then escalate to the ringing several times every day wanting to know where you are, the checking up on you, the wanting to know who you have seen and where you are at that very minute and what are you thinking about, is it me? kind of behaviour.
Very scary stuff!

Posted by: amberlight58 at May 10, 2008 6:00 PM

Perth

Your holding hands comment could be very good information for guys especially, where it seems quite a few women have expressed the feeling, that blokes want to hold on too much, want to be too close etc.

Its the thing of coming on too strong.

Like you said in an earlier post, there are many things a bloke needs to do to make a woman happy, whereas turning up naked with alcohol would definitely be a deal maker for most blokes.

Posted by: virgil at May 10, 2008 1:17 PM

This holding hands thing seems to have a life of its own.

I certainly wouldn't want to hold someone's hand on a first meeting, if the girl I was meeting wanted to, that would confuse me a bit, wondering what was going through her mind.

I think holding hands is more meaningful for those in a longer term relationship, where there is a build up of real feeling, more so than the holding hands in a relationship that is maybe 2 weeks in, or whatever.

Posted by: virgil at May 10, 2008 12:23 PM

What is it with guys grabbing at your hands all the time? I get it on first dates and then that is how they stay FDs...why do people who have just met you think they can get touchy within one hour...hmmmmmm??????

Posted by: istj54 at May 10, 2008 7:37 AM

I'm just guessing here J.L but have you ever considered that it may be your bubbly and flirtatious demeanor that leads these guys to believe that you are more interested than you may actually be?

Posted by: abckenny at May 10, 2008 11:57 AM

Yes, Virgil @ 11.46pm, those are the special little acts of intimacy, love and respect for each other that grow out of years of years of shared togetherness.

I do, however, have to agree to a certain extent with iaminperth and istj about the hand-holding etc with people that you barely know. Why do they NEED to goet touchy feely with you in public within minutes of meeting you? Why can't they let you walk through a shop without hanging onto you? Why can't they let you sip your drink without having the other hand held in a vice-like grip? Why do you have to ply them off you to go to the loo?

I met a guy who wanted to play handsies and smell my neck while I tried to pour drinks and cook a meal. It gets positively annoying when you can't do a simple thing without stepping back on someone's foot, or bumping into them, or pushing hands and arms away from you. We went his work function and all he did was sit with his arm around me and kiss the side of my face and play with my hair. When I moved my chair further away, he moved too. When I moved to the other side of the table to talk to another lady, he pulled the sulky face. needless to say, it was our last date.

Romantic? More annoying.
Intimate? Never got that far.
Invasion of personal space? Totally.

Posted by: waterlily58 at May 10, 2008 11:51 AM

Yes Virgil, the older generation, say those in thier 70's and 80's can have a lot to teach others about respect of a partner, respect of others and enduring love and devotion.
That is if we want to learn..............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 10, 2008 10:13 AM

What is it with guys grabbing at your hands all the time? I get it on first dates and then that is how they stay FDs...why do people who have just met you think they can get touchy within one hour...hmmmmmm??????

Posted by: istj54 at May 10, 2008 7:37 AM

While going to Uni 12 yaers ago, I worked in the members carpark at the Perth races.

Many elderly couples would park in the area, they were wonderful to watch, as they would park, the husband would get out of the car, walk over to his wifes side, open the door, she would get out, often then put his tie on and do it up. Then adjust the lapels of his coat, then they would walk in, often hand in hand. This would be couples in their 70's to 80's.

Posted by: virgil at May 9, 2008 11:46 PM

We can learn a lot from the blogs, from the posts from Perth, it would seem the best way to go with the holding hands thing, is, especially in the early stages of a relationship to pay close attention to signals from your new partner. Thus ensuring a bit more longevity to the relationship.

I would have to say, that i found it easier to hold hands walking a fairly long straight line, and would think it difficult to do in a supermarket, or at Bunnings.

I never really thought about how we would be perceived by others walking along, to me it was something between my partner and myself.

Posted by: virgil at May 9, 2008 11:41 PM

I agree Kaz, but this whole thing started off when I said it can be totally over the top, like the guy I met who insisted it was holding hands eveywhere, even in the supermarket, trying to pick out pot plants in the nursery, when driving the car, one handed no less. I thought that was absolutely ridiculous and if I didn't comply, got the poopie face for a while. I lasted with him for about three weeks as I thought I was going to suffocate and also found it so stupid and very embarrassing. That is not my idea of affection or romance that is control and thank you very much but no thanks, on your bike and peddle off.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 9, 2008 11:09 PM

How odd! I take my dog for a walk as she needs exercise and so do I. She is good company to walk with and I like animals, simple really - owning a dog = exercising such dog, otherwise it's animal cruelty. If you go on the RSPCA website you will find it is responsible ownership.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 9, 2008 10:54 PM

Firelight, great comments, and that subtle touch or that look when eyes meet, electricity how wonderful. That special thing between two people that is exclusive to two people in any situation at any time. That look that says I know who you are and I want to be with you, so special, lights you, lifts you and you realise you are in tune with another person who has taken the time and the energy to get to know you....that is my idea of romance.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 9, 2008 9:23 PM

Perth
What makes you think that people who show affection in public are necessarily putting on a show? Are you of the belief that they don't behave the same way while in the privacy of their own homes? and are just expressing their feelings of happiness Or are you embarrassed to show affection? I wonder do you treat your beloved pooch in the same manner?No patting or licking in public PLEASE

Posted by: abckenny at May 9, 2008 9:16 PM

Iaminperth, maybe two people hold hands in public because they want to. Simply because they want to. No other agenda, no showing off or proving anything. A fairly simple show of affection, nothing more....K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 9, 2008 8:36 PM

I don't think we have become romance intolerant. But I do think it's very easy to slide into romance forgetfulness.

I think that the longer we are single, the more settled in our ways we become. It's hard to share our space, our time, ourselves with others. After the first flush of partnering up, we start to think of having to accommodate the other person, having to consider their needs, their opinions, make compromises, allow for another.

Some decisions, practical ones like who traps the indoor spiders, or who cooks dinner, are easy to make. Others, like how to display affection, are much more finely balanced and require considerable skills, consideration and communication. What one person thinks of as acceptable behaviour might not be acceptable to the other. I give you Iaminperth's earlier account as a perfect example.

It's difficult to remember romance if we have become unaccustomed to it. We misinterpret signals, and over-think their intent. Or we don't do enough and miss our mark that way.

Remembering romance is essential to the on-going good health of any relationship. We should never beome apathetic towards flowers, or love notes, or whispered I Love You's or random acts of kindness and generosity. We should celebrate the small moments, when simply a look between two lovers speaks all possible words. Even if it is at an inconvenient time, or when you have your arms full, or you are in the middle of a bout of flu, romance should never be placed on the back burner.

Posted by: guiltypleasure at May 9, 2008 8:08 PM

May 9, 2008 6:04 PM
Iaminperth wrote
"I can't understand why people feel the need to put on a show for the public, what are they trying to prove. Why do people need to put on a show for a load of strangers who they don't know and probably would not like most of them, that is my question here....what do they think they are proving ?"

Err well precisely. What on earth are you (and pooch) doing here in public? Why do you take pooch out for a walk?
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 9, 2008 7:55 PM

I think romance is gorgeous, but unfortunately I am jaded and cynical and usually be wondering what the ulterior motive is if I am on the receiving end....therefore it makes it difficult for me to respond to, or offer, any romanticism. But that is fine...one day that will change.
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 9, 2008 7:54 PM

Posted by: iaminperth at May 9, 2008 6:04 PM

Why do people need to put on a show for a load of strangers who they don't know and probably would not like most of them, that is my question here....what do they think they are proving ?

Hi, I can vaguely remember the feeling from my youth when PDA's weren't little electronic thingies. I don't think most people indulging in a PDA really give much of a stuff about the public or think that they are trying to prove anything, all that matters at that point in time is the person you are with. Oh to be young, innocent and unselfconcious again!

Posted by: ynotalice at May 9, 2008 7:54 PM

For those who emailed or commented - tonight is Atlantic Salmon fillets pan seared, served with coriander, chilli, red onion, and melon salsa; accompanied with wild rice timbale, baby spinach and snow peas. Wouldn't use normally rice but the kids are having a growth spurt! Takes no time at all to prepare or cook.

Beautiful chardonnay on the go (flavours too robust for a Sav Blanc or PG). Have a great weekend.

Posted by: firelightlady at May 9, 2008 7:47 PM

Hello everyone, I believe generally it seems people generally feel that 'romance' and PDAs are fine in the young but a little tacky when older (maybe >30??!). From my perspective if anyone wants to demonstrate their affection, then go for it! There is far too little affection in the world today.

As for sex etc. I recently voted strenuously against a single/twin bed policy in a nursing home for 'couples' as I wondered why should libido be denounced or hidden because people are over sixty+ and maybe a tad saggy or medically friable? Lord I pray I am still enjoying an active social, professional and sexual life to the day I die.

I don't 'need' leading around either, yet the spontaneous touch of a man's hand is quite simply lovely - my dog is great too, the affections however are not remotely comparable.

I genuinely believe that people are not held or hugged in enough these days of political correctness and dispassion - maybe that is the Sagittarian coming out again...

Posted by: firelightlady at May 9, 2008 7:34 PM

No Kenny, She is not a guide dog, but she could be and many are in Europe. However, getting back on track, I think there is a 'need' to show affection in public and a lot of difference between want to. The thing that gets to me is the 'public' thing. I can't understand why people feel the need to put on a show for the public, what are they trying to prove. Why do people need to put on a show for a load of strangers who they don't know and probably would not like most of them, that is my question here....what do they think they are proving ?

Posted by: iaminperth at May 9, 2008 6:04 PM

Oh poor Marcus, you have women promising, sorry I think you said threatening, to send pics for your lonely evenings in front of your mobile phone camera? And others take you for walks and make you hold dog poo for hours? No wonder you are disillusioned with women, Marcus. It's a sad sad life you lead.

Any bright spots to look forward to this weekend?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 9, 2008 5:31 PM

ah inperth you are such a romantic.Makes one wonder what you are doing here on a singles site.
Why do people need to show their affection in public...are they showing it to the person they are with......or to the public. I personally hate it I do not need leading around, I have a beautiful intelligent dog to do that at times.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 8, 2008 8:04 PM

Is that a guide dog by any chance?

Posted by: abckenny at May 9, 2008 4:33 PM

I don't understand your comments at all Marcus - Why would I be in danger from you and what does OG have to do with that. Your are sounding very egotistical there as I would have no interest in a person like you whatsover. Also why would your 57 year old, of course shapely friend threaten to send you pictures of her naked, why doesn't she just send them if that is the way she likes to behave. I am sure you would enjoy them for whatever reason. I believe a lot of men sit home and look at nude pictures for some reason or other.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 9, 2008 3:27 PM

Marcus...Your point is ???

Posted by: iaminperth at May 9, 2008 3:11 PM

I saw a youngish couple on a corner a few weeks ago...the man brushed back the woman's hair from her face and looked lovingly into her eyes and they kissed. It was beautiful to behold and made me smile:))

Posted by: istj54 at May 9, 2008 2:01 PM

Hi all, I myself am a true romantic and can't get enough of it! Maybe because I grew up watching too many Doris Day movies on a Saturday afternoon, or too many fairy tales being read to me at bed time...
If a man wishes to express his feelings for me with a bunch of flowers or a note left on my pillow, he will find it is very much appreciated, by me.
I love holding hands, stealing a quick kiss etc. After years of being alone, I will take it whenever/where-ever I can get it!

And Marcus - put the do-do in the bin next time... lol.
Red

Posted by: redgem65 at May 9, 2008 1:58 PM

Posted by: iaminperth at May 8, 2008 8:04 PM

Gee whiz - what a shame for you (and him).

Posted by: woodnwine at May 9, 2008 11:37 AM

iampert May 8, 2008 8:04 PM
You and your awalking dog have become blog legends imo. Perhaps you would like to introduce us to her? You have written yourself in here like some reconstituted virgin maiden aunt in a soapie. And don't worry you are in no danger from me no matter what you believe OG says. (I have a shapely 57yo never met admirer in Perth who occasionally threatens to send me a phone cam vid of her showering.) The last RSVP Serious Dog Walker I dated (twice) took me for a stroll down to Studley Park. Her dog was a female chichuaha X. Something much larger had got at the bitche and the offspring had picked up all the bred in deformities that people think make chichuaha's 'cute' as well as its probably mongrel father red cattle dog look. There was no problem with this animals digestive system though. Somehow I found myself carrying a bread bag with a mass of definitely not pink or romantic do-do's for the last 2 km of the walk.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 9, 2008 3:05 AM

Troy

I had a similar situation regarding a previous girlfriend and my children particularly my daughter.

I left her in no doubt where both her and my daughter fitted into the picture.

My daughter will always be my daughter, whereas I havent seen that g/f since 2002.

Posted by: virgil at May 9, 2008 12:27 AM

Perth,
As you say there is a time and place for everything, and it seems you are having any easy night of it tonight, unless the night shift come on, lol.

Waterlilly goes to my mind of things.

Virg, a pity that Eskimo Nell was quite a gel.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 8, 2008 11:54 PM

To feelingtheforce... don't give up! I agree I think being romantic is more than throwing yourself at another(everything has it's time and place)...I absolutely love the flirting, and hinting, that goes on between a couple.....and if that's old fashioned well thats fine by me!

Posted by: nicki003 at May 8, 2008 11:17 PM

Perth

It would be hard holding hands pushing a trolley around a supermarket, or seedling shopping at Bunnings. I was more thinking about holding hands walking along the foreshore at Rockingham, or walking around Fremantle going to the movies etc.

Posted by: virgil at May 8, 2008 11:12 PM

Yeah perth, I know what you mean. Have been there. I had a problem where the lady I was with didn't like my daughter sitting next to me when my children came over as it 'cut into her time'. They came over once a week at that time. The kids are here much more these days and she is not.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 8, 2008 11:07 PM

I agree Troy, I think that would be lovely, strolling, chatting, laughing, but I was trying to buy plants in a nursery and couldn't get to pick them up one handed, also when he was driving, had to hold my hand, driving one handed, what the !!!! That is totally different to me in a relaxed situation walking the dog etc.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 8, 2008 10:35 PM

Perth, a shame for you that you feel this way. Do you really think that holding hands is an atempt by a male to establish dominance? I just love to hold my girls hand for crying out loud.......it's a connection thing I suppose but perhaps you don't like that. We are all different however were I walking my dog, the most beautiful chocolate labrador, with you and your dog i may wishto hold your hand.....were we involved etc.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 8, 2008 10:22 PM

I think sometimes I have lived a long time on my own working full time, raising children on my own and being fairly organised in both my professional and personal life. None of us want for much and sometimes I look at a guy and wonder 'what are you thinking'. I have heard about the heart breaks, the heart aches, the problems, the excuses and all the rest. Frankly, most of the time I don't give a damn and just think well maybe you should just get over it because we have all had our share of problems. And if you haven't achieved much well get off your ass and get a better job. Cynical, nasty or just realistic, but it's not for me.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 8, 2008 10:19 PM

Virgil, I can understand that and what you felt with your partner but these times were doing everyday chores, like grocery shopping, trying to buy seedlings in Bunnings........I felt ridiculous and kept falling over him.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 8, 2008 10:12 PM

OG
No, her name is not Eskimo Nell, she is a fine Australian woman.

Perth

I loved holding hands with my last partner, nearly everywhere we went,she was equally happy to do the same, it was a mutual reaching out,neither feeling anything other than pleased to hold hands in public.

Posted by: virgil at May 8, 2008 9:47 PM

Ha twoeyes, come out from under the blankets then please............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 8, 2008 9:43 PM

are we becoming romance intolerant?
Karina you have been watching "Sex and the city" exactly the same question was asked by Carrie tonite!!!!(on foxtel)

Romance, it is a wonderful thing, it you come across someone you spark with, romance is wonderful...holding hands , being kissed on the bcak of your hands and on the arms, him standing up when you arrive in the restaurant and kissing you, looking into your eyes and constantly holding your hand...making you feel like a princess...it is an absolutely wonderful feeling. If you get the chance to have such an experience, grab it and run with the feelings it will bring you...sensational!!!!

There are never any guarrantees, life and relationships can be short , so who cares if strangers see you kissing...I say they probably wish it was happening to them!!!

have a lovely romantic evening all....jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at May 8, 2008 9:32 PM

eeewwww OG, what a nasty nasty thought........double eeeewwww!!!! lol

Posted by: iaminperth at May 8, 2008 9:09 PM

I dont think we are becoming romance intolerant, most of us would be happy with a bit of romance at this present point and time! Affection comes in many different forms, a look, a smile, a twinkle in the eye of things to come later, or hand holding, a kiss and a cuddle, all are acceptable in public if both feel comfortable with it. I guess one has to keep in mind how the "audience" might perceive it...

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at May 8, 2008 8:43 PM

There is far more to romance and love than highly public displays of physical intimacy.

I've always thought that the ones who feel the need to make such public displays, such as deep throat pashes, pawing each other's bodies and beach sex, were the ones who must have very little going on between them in private.

It is the quiet, private times, even just a few minutes, between 2 people who genuinely care for each other, that are usually the most romantic and will last a lifetime.

Posted by: waterlily58 at May 8, 2008 8:42 PM

Perth, dont let Marcus know you are Physic, he doesnt believe it any way.
lol
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 8, 2008 8:32 PM

Virg,
Her name perchance was not Eskimo Nell?
If it was it would have been the "affair to remember". But can have empathy with you on this one.
Perth, too true, nothing more that a declaration of "look at my trophy" not at my insecurity. Have you considered that you may attract the possessive type who will not leave you alone, and insist on talking to you. lol
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 8, 2008 8:30 PM

and Marcus, before you say something so stupid and unintelligent my dog is, very obviously, a female, lol.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 8, 2008 8:05 PM

Why do people need to show their affection inpublic...are they showing it to the person they are with......or to the public. I personally hate it, except for a greeting kiss and then conversation, laughter and away you go. What is this 'not afraid to show affection in public'....who cares about the public !! I went with a guy for a short time once who insisted on holding hands everywhere we went...I hated it, felt self conscious and stupid, plus I felt manipulated by him......which of course I was being at the time. After about a month of that rubbish I told him I wasn't interested and he was not my type.....absolutely ridiculous, it was nothing about me, it was all about him. Ridiculous I am not a child, not do I have altzheimers therefore I do not need leading around, I have a beautiful intelligent dog to do that at times.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 8, 2008 8:04 PM

Decorates

I have recently had a really nice person consider a long distance relationship with me, from a very cold climate with limited work opportunities for me, so was not able to go forward in the way i would have liked.

I think if the person of your affections is local, then what you say is absolutely right, but if one needs to relocate, then financial reality steps in, unfortunately.

Posted by: virgil at May 8, 2008 7:59 PM

Hey All,

Dont know about the 3am tonsil hockey on the dance floor or a pash on the Spanish Steps...but 15 years ago (or so) I was at Wanda Beach and this guy and girl came running out of the surf, stripped off, jumped under their blanket and went at it hammer and tong.....they got a standing ovation from all on the beach when they resurfaced.....and people reckon romance is dead!!!

Bob

Posted by: notgodsgift at May 8, 2008 7:04 PM

Of course we are becoming romance intolerant. None of us cynics on here,whether by design or out of tragedy, are open to the what may be scenario..........

we list to do lists, we list needs and wants,we list the perfect partner, and then try to put up the perfect profile.

I can say from personal opinion that there are a large number of woman, ( cos thats who I am after) are not at all inclined to romance . They want things that are no longer attainable. They judge on purely looks alone, which would be a good title for a movie...........But wait its been shallow hal.

Be more open, more aware, and more alert and you may just find that missing person, hiding under some good camouflage.

Posted by: twoeyes at May 8, 2008 5:44 PM

A drunken 3 am tonsil-hockey may be acceptable due to the fact most at that hour in a bar are also drunk, but more tacky than romantic.
Sounds like the Spanish Steps couple needed a tap on the shoulder and asked to get a room.
There is a bit of difference in being affectionate in public than being outrageously hmm affectionate, is a better word for it but will stick to this one

Posted by: jgc2 at May 8, 2008 3:23 PM

Isn't it more about common sense and consideration for other people?

For example, if you are in a bar where half the couples are making out and no one seems to care ... then go for it! But if you are in a bar or club and there is a family restaurant in the next room then it might be worth a bit of a rethink!

Besides ... to me some subtle and lingering glances across the table and playing footsies underneath is just as romantic, if not more, than a bit of tongue tennis.

I really dislike walking down the street and seeing a couple of teenagers 'pashing' in plain view (this is made even worse by the fact that I know I did it when I was young ... and it was great! LOL)

However - like jgc2 - seeing anyone treating each other with love, or simply just kindness and respect, whether they are in a relationship or not, brings a smile to my heart every time.

I'm old fashioned I guess. I can only hope and pray that perhaps there are more people out there with the same ideals I have. Other than my mum! LOL

Posted by: feelingtheforce at May 8, 2008 2:52 PM

There are PDAs and there are PDAs...a loving kiss between a happy couple might be romantic. Drunken, 3am dance floor tonsil-hockey is probably not. But whether either is acceptable behaviour? Yeah, why not! Noone's getting hurt.

In Rome last year I saw a couple getting so 'affectionate' on the Spanish Steps I thought they might actually get naked and start going for it right there. They were lying on top of each other, kissing each other passionately all over, putting their hands down each other's pants and up each others shirts, writhing with pleasure and audibly enjoying themselves. They had a large audience entertained, but I don't think they noticed. I think they would be arrested here!

Posted by: back2vegas at May 8, 2008 2:39 PM

virgil @ 12.25pm...
"I wonder if I will rediscover the magic of romance when I find work, or whether my energies will be directed into a different area?"

Virgil.. I think you'll rediscover the magic of romance when you meet the right person.
I don't feel it has anything to do with whether you're working or not, or even where you are directing your energies..
it can happen when you least expect it (& often does).

When that special person appears... so will the romantic magic... whatever age one is.

That's what I've found until now, & see no reason why it should change in the future..

Posted by: decoratress at May 8, 2008 1:21 PM

I sure hope we are not becoming romance intolerant. When I see a happy couple of any age walking down the street holding hands and giving each other a warm smile, it is a wonderful feeling and makes me smile for the rest of the day. Romance has nothing to do with having a lot of money, you don't need to buy the 13 red roses when a single daisy will say just as much.
Just the other day I was sitting having a coffee at a cafe and at the next table was a couple in their late 60's, when they went to leave he held her hand and gave her a quick kiss, love and romance is alive and hope it will always be that way

Posted by: jgc2 at May 8, 2008 12:51 PM

Maybe we have become romance intolerant?

How can one, at some stage of life talk for another. I havernt been overseas, so I dont know what life is like in other countries.

I wish I had gone in my 20's or 30s because my desire is diminished by the events happening overseas, terrorism etc.

What about romance?
Personally I am concentrating on finding more work/income at the moment, and romance seems to not occupy centre stage, as it once did.

Not sure if that is due to age or disillusionment with the process.

I have great admiration for TW, because at his age, to be so actively seeking a partner when his finances are less than optimal, as he describes them, shows great resilience. Now I know he has made a clumsy remark over the last few days, but feel in the scheme of things we have all said things we wish we hadnt.

I wonder if I I will rediscover the magic of romance when I find work, or whether my energies will be directed into a different area?

Posted by: virgil at May 8, 2008 12:25 PM