RSVP Blog

Tangents ....................

Posted by: woodnwine at May 27, 2008 10:57 AM

some persons state what they want to percieve, without any thought to context, one recently accused me of jumping into the sand pit with glee at the thought of her relationship ending. I can assure her I did not, why should I when I was not understanding who would want to have a relationship with her in the first place.

Then when a person I have liked and respected from day 1 comes and chastises me for a post that was allowed, it was then I realised how disruptive such a person can be. Having been accused of being a person that would not attract a contact because of my posts, I suggest if they did not have the comfort of an existing partner the same would apply to them.

But how dare a person with a hidden profile, attack without any foundation or proof a person with an open profile. is something RSVP should address. I can take all the comments addressed at me, but when it is, I demand the right of reply without censorship from the moderator, which has not happened recently especilly when I kept within the bounds of the rules.

Back to resorting on hard copy of posts.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 27, 2008 9:31 AM

WB, I don't believe anyone "jumped with glee" at the prospect of your relationship failing. You seem fond of going through past blogs so perhaps, for clarrification, you should do so in this instance. Your comments do however further illustrate my point that you deliberately misunderstand in order to go off on another tirade.

Posted by: troyohboy at May 27, 2008 9:30 AM

Thanks WB .... whatever all that meant. Don't worry though, I'm always laughing (at something).

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 10:22 PM

WB at 8.30pm: I'm sorry that you associated me with a thought that your current relationship may have ended, and that if so, I was glad. No way.

Troy is like my mate Norah - rarely says anything while the rest of us rabbit on, then suddenly comes out with a doozie that says it all in one.

As when he said at 11.02am: "Woody, I think WB is first among several here who are deliberately taking what is said out of context in order to push a barrow.

I should have been chivalrous enough to take the extra time to specify what I was agreeing with, and what I wasn't. I apologise to you now, WB, for not. Was stealing $$work time, and hurrying too fast.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 26, 2008 10:09 PM

Just catching up and wtf....how come that lunch back in Feb has hit the blogs again? (FP has been whinging again!!). And then others getting on the bandwagon about who is real and who isn't, it just never goes away. as far a I can tell you all could be sock puppets, except for the bloggers i have actually met in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, at various blog fests!!!! Which we organised ourselves with our own resources!!!
So WB, Kaz, VDU, amdoingit, Jenjen, dolphin, Malsie, Nina, Woodnwine, me, twoeyes, notgodsgift, and about 20 others are all real people that exist in the real life...my next work trip is darwin...any darwin bloggers out there???

Some of us are in relationships, some are not...some have hidden profiles, some do not....but we all like to blog at various times...so can everyone get over picking on others identities and get back to a bit of fun and sometimes informative blogging. Have a lovely evening all...jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at May 26, 2008 9:06 PM

Woody, this is just for you, Re:
waterbombe - are you on a personal crusade at the moment? Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 8:54 AM
Taking comments out of context is not usually a good thing, but here are some other quotes from me taken out of context:

Exactly, Cam1978!! That was well put!
Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 9:37 PM

I stay friends with ex's too, Irishmark
Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 1:46 PM

Waterbombe had put it just about perfectly at 11.44pm, I thought.
Posted by: timewarp1 at May 22, 2008 8:46 PM

Ah, Marcus, this is gold: "A group who regularly claim to talk to someone who died 2 thousand years and now claim this person lives inside bread are obviously deviant and quite able to say that a person is a particular religion because of a water sprinkle".
Posted by: waterbombe at May 24, 2008 8:43 PM

I really don't get the upset with Grego...... But I think he may not be quite as good with words as some of the rest of us who have been here for a while, because we realise how easily you can be misunderstood in writing.

�. If Grego was so sexist, wouldn't what the woman looks like be of prime importance to him? Wouldn't he be on here telling us that only women 20 years younger than him are worth his attention ...like some bloggers have done...
Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 2:16 PM

Waterbombe, thank you for reading my posts as I dont things others have been before attacking me. I think you got what I was talking about.
Posted by: grego7 at May 21, 2008 11:32 AM

Woody, here is something you should remember next time you read what I write:
TW...a quick response...much of what I write is tongue-in-cheek. You seem to miss that.
Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:28 AM

Woodnwine, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek. That shop is still open, you know, the one that sells senses of humour.Where did you put the one you already had?
Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 5:09 PM

And why do I post what I do? Well, as I said a few days ago:
I did get really sick of all the uncensored misogynism that we used to have to put up with in 'the old days' (on the blogs).
Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 10:16 AM

Your post implies that you think the same as Ogre, Troy and TW, who just jumped in the sandpit with glee at the thought I had been dumped. Next someone will be asking if I have PMT, am menopausal or was potty trained too early. No, my opinions aren't due to some personal unhappiness...there is solid evidence behind what i say on here. But you would have to read a bit to know about it. I'm not sure what yours and Troy's backgrounds are, but it's clear to me that Marcus, TW, Ogre have never developed any rigorous thinking on the topic of sexism. I would be astonished if they had read anything at all that was relevant. And I would be ASTOUNDED if they had understood it.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 26, 2008 8:30 PM

I'm sorry to disappoint you absolutely charming older gentlemen, but my relationship has not ended.

And Ogre, you really were all charm and grace in that post (Posted by: oldergent at May 26, 2008 1:40 PM ). I take it you are still in the market for a relationship? Does it occur to you that your prospective partner may be reading the blogs and see what infirm stuff you are made of?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 26, 2008 7:35 PM

Well to begin with to me cam has done nothing but say what he thinks women want to hear from a guy.

If the shoe was on the other foot and I was female everyone in here would be say "oh you poor thing! What a prick he was to treat you like that."
But I am male and as a male I am not allowed to voice my opinion or feeling when upset, hurt or think I am/have been mistreated.
Well sorry to say but it is my right to express how I feel and I am quite happy to exercise those rights.
Now if some guy doesn't like that and adheres to the neanderthal attitude of Just harden up that's his choice but when he is in a shit relationship because he chooses to harden up and not say what about me or exercise his right to say I'm being treated like crap he has no-one to blame but himself, meanwhile I will be having a great time with a wonderful woman because I choose to stand up for myself in an equal relationship, which I did through the whole relationship with the ex. it just wasn't too equal towards the end.

He did not read my post too well or he would have not accused me of pretending to be a nice guy to get the women.
He would not have accused me of acting submissive and saying that is how I have always acted in relationships towards women.
He would not have said I can not deal with not being anyone special.
He would not have accused me of going around saying to myself Gee what a swell guy I am.
He would not have accused me of being a know it all.
And He would not have got on his high horse telling me to be a mature adult.
I am a mature adult. I am the 1st to say I don't know it all, I am one of the 1st to admit it when I make a mistake, I admit I am nobody special without a care and I never go around saying Gee what a swell guy I am.
I have never thought I am someone special or that I know everything.

Then there is the comment about hardening up not meaning to go around beating on women.
Since when did anyone other then cam mention beating up women. I certainly didn't.
Oh and where did I mention I want recognition for any thing I had done for her or palliative care.

I never said I bent over backwards for said ex. I just gave some example of things I had done for her.
Where did I say I did every little thing for said ex thus making me a nice guy. I didn't.

I treated her as a equal.
As for the comment of communication. That's preaching to the choir when you start talking to me about communication.
My choice of partner was spot on at the start. We got along fine as friends and it progressed.
My treatment of her was spot on too. This is confirmed by the comment to a friend of hers that she didn't know what being treat properly by a partner was until I came along.

I had the misfortune of seeing my mother abused by my father for years on end.
So I do have some clue on how and how not to treat a woman.
Granted I make mistakes but who hasn't

There was nothing wrong with my posts and I don't need a lecture from anyone on judgement of others esp. when they are judging me.

Posted by: chris261 at May 26, 2008 6:16 PM

I have a background in the horse racing industry and the only times I have been to hospital was to have my kids and a few broken bones from riding accidents.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 26, 2008 4:20 PM

OG, a bit below the belt there.....No his eyes were not glazed, yes l did bother to look, actually conversed with him.
If you are going to have a go at WB, then aim your barb in the right direction....her partner is not that.......
And they reckon women can get bitchy.......sheesh............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 26, 2008 2:05 PM

Troy,
A good question and point made, I wonder if any of the participants at that luncheon bothered to notice if her partners eyes were glazed, or did she ever take her hand off his back. Couldn't see an ego like that happy with a glove puppet, it would have to be the real thing. Maybe she is a multi personality and they take over in shifts, she seems to have a thing about multiple births (triplets etc) and feels superior being Quads, lol.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 26, 2008 1:40 PM

Troy for Seer in Residence!

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 26, 2008 11:47 AM

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 9:24 AM

Woody, I think WB is first among several here who are deliberately taking what is said out of context in order to push a barrow. Nothing new of course but interesting when comments made by various people, obviously in a lighthearted sense, are then attacked.
I do wonder if WB's relationship has ended as she seems to exist here 24/7.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 26, 2008 11:02 AM

chris - personally, I don't think you're expressing yourself at all well and should perhaps put more thought into what you write (and I mean that genuinely). Good luck and maybe just go with the flow a bit more.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 9:24 AM

Posted by: cam1978 at May 23, 2008 6:14 PM

Much better post to chris, I thought .... maybe you were just pissed off the first time?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 9:11 AM

Cam - maybe chris didn't express himself in terms you relate to but he is entitled to his opinions. Maybe he does need to be more assertive but I think you'd have to meet him to know. Blogging is just that.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 9:00 AM

"Marcus, I do get taken out and of course being the model of egalitarianism that I am, I do take my partner out too....but I have never been flummoxed by a door. Call it what you will...brains, brawn, beetle bravado... doors do not a problem make for a Waterbomber.

Aren't you guys focussing on trivia? What a surprise. It's as if opening a door gets you brownie points, and you want to be recognised as the stronger sex because you can do it....fer gods sake. We don't need help with opening the doors....get behind the laundry, the cooking, the cleaning, the shopping, sitting up with the kids all night when they have a fever....those things don't take physical strength, they take stamina, energy and time. Time that, by the look of it, you Triplets spend mostly on the couch thinking about how disappointed you are with women and blogging to tell the rest of the world that.

I'm guessing that what you want, boys, is a gorgeous 35year old woman who is in great shape, intelligent, has a good job, no kids, interesting hobbies, great friends, owns a house, 2 cars and a boat, never contradicts you, does all the housework, cooking, cleaning and laundry while you watch telly, knows her place, accepts that you are always right, wants sex daily if not more often, and adores and cherishes you....right?
And you offer....precisely what?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 8:36 PM"

waterbombe - are you on a personal crusade at the moment? Somehow I think everyone is focusing on the wrong things.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 8:54 AM

Perth at 5.01pm: We've only met once before - the nice all-afternoon picnic lunch on Coochimudlo Island a few weeks ago.

I do know that she's an agency nurse, and it was only her third shift this week, so she obviusly needed to accept it for the money. At some private hospital way across town out Ashgrove way, she said. Rang me at 8.22am when she arrived home from work to sleep.

And I just loved your jest - obviously gleaned from your own background in the hospital industry and male viewpoint: I'll score it Humour 8, puppet credibility 2.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 26, 2008 1:45 AM

There you are then....
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 25, 2008 8:49 PM

Glad that is settled now I can get back to admiring BM without feeling a bit iffy, lol.
Cheers you two
OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 25, 2008 8:01 PM

To all,

Grego7 and BM1960 are definitely different people.

I can vouch for Grego7. His name is Greg. He is an actual person unless I am dreaming all this.

I understand that BM1960"s name is Barbara and I am confident she is a genuine person.

rgds grego

Posted by: grego7 at May 25, 2008 7:21 PM

Of course they are openly affectionate - a good team win means more money for all in the tradings, and the Man of the Match gets the first round in! Not to mention they are not allowed to text on the field, mobile phones out there would probably make the affection decrease and introduce discreet texting and pxt exchange - lol

Good luck to them.

Posted by: firelightlady at May 25, 2008 7:19 PM

I am definitely BM1960....nobody else....I think a comment I made the other day was attributed to greg07 and this may have led to the confusion.
I doubt greg07 would like to be thought of as me, and vice versa....:-) (Another 'Tongue in Cheek' production by Barbara...)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 25, 2008 7:08 PM

I get tickets for the Eagles games in Perth and, although I'm not a major footy fan, I did go to the grandfinal last year and it was great fun. The crowd was extremely good, loud with all the Victorians there but good naturedly trying to outdo WA with the noise. It is different when you are actually there to see the fitness and standard right in front of your eyes. It will be so much better here when they build a descent stadium to accommodate everyone, although the way the WA government moves, hopefully it will still be in my lifetime. I will go to more games when they build a new stadium, but the old one is okay if you are with a good crowd. What does this have to do with the blog....absolutely nothing.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 25, 2008 6:52 PM

Back on topic: What about our footballers and cricketers being "openly affectionate" when they score?...isn't that a bit off too?

Posted by: istj54 at May 25, 2008 6:27 PM

I thought Greg was Greg07 and Barbara was BM1960? I am fairly sure they are different people.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 5:48 PM

It did WB, sorry about that, it's all getting too silly, what a laugh!!! Greg is called Barbara, now that's a worry !!! or would be for partner I would think, getting more like Pricilla any day now. Apparently the Queer Eye guy used to be called Louise, maybe he has infiltrated the blogs, now that would brighten them up and we could all have a good laugh.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 25, 2008 5:36 PM

Did you mean TW, Perth? You post doesn't make sense otherwise.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 5:14 PM

WB did you lunch dates unexpected shift include being turned over to alleviate any pressure spots

Posted by: iaminperth at May 25, 2008 5:01 PM

no, he didn't look like Grego7 then, istj54, and he still doesn't look like him.
TW, it's not that I wouldn't "poach" - odd word, that, I poach eggs myself. It's a principle...saying no is not an opportunity to correct evil men for the shortcoming of cheating on their wives; saying no is a principle in action. It's very straightforward.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 4:35 PM

TW...did WBs partner on the day of the select, invitation only bloglunch look anything like Grego7?

Posted by: istj54 at May 25, 2008 4:02 PM

WB at 9.33am: Of course you wouldn't poach! That would be total anathema to you. A complete denial of what you stand for.

Far better to have all those lovely opportunities to correct evil men for their shortcomings. Face to face.

And I can really relate to your last sentence. Me too.

I like women, and nearly all women like me. But I don't like sexist women, and sexist women don't like me. Too earnestly open-mindedly honest for them.

So I guess you and I are better to keep away from one another, and each focus on the people who appreciate us for our virtue in action, rather than wasting lifetime playing Berne's ego-bolstering, friendship-sabotaging game of "Blemish".

Based on whatever stereotypical characteristic one can grab onto, label and demonise.

My lunch date cancelled - she had an unexpected night shift last night. So I got to chat with you instead. Peace and love.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 25, 2008 12:56 PM

Wow, this is all a bit out there today and yesterday etc.

Passive aggressive isn't nice it is detached, avoidant and manipulative. Leave it right there.

Opening doors is either a) good manners or b) a chance to checkout someones legs / bum a little closer - good luck with that - I have no objections to either. However I am a bit quick off the mark and I if I open the door for you keep option B in mind.

Sexism is when someone doing the same job as me gets paid more because he is male, and some other important fundamental issues (pls don't let's start). It isn't about manners in action. Marcus I am sure could direct readers to the many copious tomes on female biological and physiological superiority (merely from a physiological perspective - this is not a 'men bad/women good' rant) from embryo onwards.

Sexism is also when thoroughly decent professional fathers have their rights to their children removed and their salary annexed to support an individual that chose and still chooses not to work for whatever reason even when the children are into their teens and about to leave. Sexism is also when this happens to a woman; she can say that's fine I will work a little part time, care for the kids 50% and the court system supports them in this - if a man proposes that it seldom gets awarded! Please note I said decent father - don't unload all the hard luck, cheating, viloent abusive stories - key word is decency.

The term 'nice' when applied to a man or woman or animal is pretty redundant. Decent or even Good describes behaviour and perhaps values, handsome describes looks, kind describes the compassion and caring that WnW describes. (Please bring me dinner if I am ill :- ) I would really appreciate it). Nice is a washy term or a bland biscuit.

Men should not have to toughen up or alter themselves in anyway and neither should women - The gods know that by this time we should be comfortable with who we are.

Though of course living on the Coast plastic seems to be fantastic - wanting slim, enhanced but expressionless and rather needy? Go for it guys!
Sorry that wasn't 'nice' of me...lol

Greg07 is called Barbara? Did I miss something?

For an interesting read for any mother with sons, or woman who wants the balanced other view 'What Men don't Talk About' Maggie Hamilton - Penguin/Viking and/or 'Turning Gorgeous Boys into Good Men' - Celia Lashlie.

I believe that men in society are being often demonised and that polemic views do not help. There are as many vicious women out there as men - or should I say humans as a race have an equal quotient in either gender capable of both decent, and thoroughly appalling behaviour.

Posted by: firelightlady at May 25, 2008 12:26 PM

Have a lovely time, TW. You will find that being out there with real people is so much better for a balanced point of view than spending hours writing tendentious essays.

You said :"I was very sorry to read just then of your many very unhappy experiences with men since your divorce"..are you referring to my comment that heaps of married guys tried cracking on to me after I divorced? (Which btw is the experience of many newly divorced women). They weren't "very unhappy experiences" ... they only lasted a minute...long enough for me to hear what they were actually saying and to reply "No chance, sunshine, get on your bike and pedal back to yout wife". I didn't have a relationship with any of them. I've never had an affair with a married man....I object on principle, but there's always been so many lovely single men my age out there that I've had relationships with very nice guys. I like men, and men like me, but I don't like sexist men, and sexist men don't like me. As you've figured.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 9:33 AM

Hi WB: Just skimmed a couple of days on a couple of blogs, and saw yours of 7.54pm on 23rd: "Your post is incomprehensible, TW. I tried..."

If that referred to my painstaking exposition at 11.29pm on May 22, I am totally incredulous, to say the very least.

You are far from obtuse, WB. My guess is that your ego wouldn't let you even try to understand what I'd said. It was a man talking, after all! Another of your logic-tight compartments?

adieu, Trixie. I'm right back into real life at last, this last coupla days. Which is overflowing with my dear long-term friends, (and not a single winner-maniac of either gender in sight.)

Excellent poetry evening with 6 of them at Sandgate last night, and an RSVP riverbank picnic lunch (second date) with another poet tomorrow, before I introduce her to my monthly open-mike poetry afternoon at West End. After that I'll disappear for dinner with an old friend, and then my beloved night tennis at Stafford..

Thank you sincerely for repelling me back to that comparitive bliss, WB.

PS: To answer your peremptory previous question at 12.02am on May 22: WB, I try to learn more and more about gender relations all the time, and (because I believe a good idea doesn't care who has it) from any person of any age or gender - as long as their apparent knowledge is greater than their apparent ego and/or bias.

I was very sorry to read just then of your many very unhappy experiences with men since your divorce.

Now I am able to understand your profound gender bias so much better. Hope you're getting happier, now that you have someone nicer to add to your personal experience of men.

Peace and love to all. Seeyez some time. When the smoke clears.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 25, 2008 2:58 AM

Well I can say am not the passive aggressive type. How do I know?
I have had 2 personality evaluations when I had a bad episode of depression a few years back.

I do understand what you are saying but nice and passive-aggressive don't go hand in hand when it comes to myself.

Chris

Posted by: chris261 at May 24, 2008 6:47 PM

you are right, guiltypleasure..."nice" goes hand in hand with passive -aggressive...which is not nice at all.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 24, 2008 6:00 PM

I think it is cute to see people holding hands ... the occasional kiss perhaps, but if i wanted to see two people going at it like rabbits i would watch late night SBS and not go to a bar, restaurant or club, people need to be more considerate.

Posted by: melbfire at May 23, 2008 11:31 PM

Thank you for the compliment,NorthernLights:))

Posted by: istj54 at May 23, 2008 9:14 PM

There you are then....I am getting better at netspeak and textspeak interpretation!!!
I found out Oldergent's Deo Maximus Optimus means....God the Great...:-)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 8:24 PM

Chris, there's been some interesting feedback to your 'nice guy' comments, so I thought I would add my two cents worth:

The way I see it, there is a huge problem with being a nice guy. Or a nice girl for that matter - when you are nice to others, it gives them permission to be themselves.

And boy, can they be themselves; they can be thoughtless, dismissive, self-centred, unwilling to give of themselves, take, take, take...

The problem you see, is the passive-aggressive stuff that goes with the territory of being Nice. We act this way because we want, (unconsciously expressed though it may be) a pay-off. We do for others because we want something in return. It could be a peaceful life with a tetchy partner, it could be nooky, it could be a bunch of flowers. Often it's because we want recognition and appreciation. That's especially noticeable in office politics for example, the doer, who makes themselves indispensable.

Frankly I would rather have root canal surgery without pain killers than be a Nice Girl ever again. Nice guys/girls have no self-respect; diminished responsibility for setting boundaries with regards to the behaviours of others; they don't tell others how to treat them well. They are, frankly, negligent about their own needs. And all because they have a screwed up notion of giving and receiving.

Manners on the other hand, are those every-day transactions and customs that ease people through all sorts of settings in daily life. We don't have to be Nice in order to get recognition; the boundaries of social ettiquette are easily recognised, and when people cross over that line, we respond by pulling back from them, or correcting their behaviours. I'm a huge fan of manners. It gives me scope to tell the office Nice Guy that for the time being, his work is great, and now he can bugger off and leave me to finish the report that he's offering to finish for me. Oh, and if you're making a coffee, I'll have one too please, no sugar. Thanks.

I said two cents worth. I think I've probably used up my weekly allotment. Oops,sorry.

Posted by: guiltypleasure at May 23, 2008 8:06 PM

DOM does mean dirty old man, bm1960.

Your post is incomprehensible, TW. I tried...

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 7:54 PM

Chris, just a bit of thought re your blog...these statements seem to contradict your nice guy image:
In What way?

""You are so wrong"...is that nice, Chris? ."
I just stated a fact.
That he is wrong.

""Most of us are not nice people when it comes to the crunch" ..really? Is that a nice thing to say? Would a nice person believe that?"
Why wouldn't a nice person believe that.
It is generally true.

"" I am not a jerk like most guys"....Most guys are jerks? Would a nice person believe that?"
Well sorry. I am just saying something women say all the time.
So since I have been labelled a nice guy I have to think all men are good people.

""People as usual are too gutless to say (this)"..would a nice person think this of others, Chris?."
Considering it is true. Yes!
It happens all the time. People rant and rave but when it comes time for them to say it when it matters we don't hear peep out of them.

"" I'm pretty sure I'm tougher than you and most men on this site"...wooo...is this a nice guy speaking? Or is this a bully speaking?"
Well for starters I was defending myself.
I don't need some guy to tell me to harden up esp after he has had just attacked me and accused me of pretending to be a nice guy to get the women, telling me I am submissive by claiming I have relied on being a nice guy in relationships , which is not the easy thing by the way.
As well as going on a bout making generalisations about people I have never met yet he is making judgement on me and we have never met.
I've dealt with many things most couldn't handle and I am a much better and stronger person for it.

"You are not that convincing with the 'nice guy' image, Chris."
I don't have to convince you or anyone.
People I meet see who I am straight away. I tend to live as an open book and be myself.
Those I meet can see this and are able make their own judgement.

Seriously. You argument sounds as if you think a nice guy is someone who lives in a fantasy land and sees through rose coloured glasses, is a yes man, doesn't have his own opinions and must adhere to strict guideline of how he should think of other people.
You can still be a nice guy and see the world as the crappy place it is from time to time.
You can still be a nice guy and see people for what they are. Be it jerks or great blokes.
You can still be a nice guy and have the spine to stand up and not be afriad to say what you think and feel even at risk of being flamed by people such as yourself and others on this blog.

"Chris, you didn't come across as a nice guy to me...you came across as a whinger who said awful things about his ex while claiming to be 'nice'. Cam1978's comments are worth a deeper thought, I'd say."

What that I said she is loopy? That was how I felt at the time.
I am greatful I met her because I came out of my shell thanks to her but I can still say I think she is loopy. I'm not the only one who knew her who has thought it at one time or another and a few still do.
No need for any deeper thought there.

Posted by: troyohboy at May 23, 2008 10:09 AM
"Wb, I think that chris believes that if he keeps telling himself and others that he is a nice, yet tough masculine sensitive bloke it will become true. I think a previous blogger had it right when he suggested he harden up and be a man which does not mean being a bully even if he could only achieve this in written form."

I don't tell myself or others that I am nice. Others tell me I am.
I am tough in the scense that i have been through a lot in my short life and comeout better at the other end and I am in no way the most masculine guy around.
The guy was wrong in telling me to harden up. I stated an opinion, while using a life experience as an example.
Since when was I being a bully in written form?
I would put posting harsh comments and not having a visible profile so they can't be identified visually the act of a bully before I would say my post was one and no I am not claiming you are a bully BTW.

The joke is I used an the example of my ex treating me like crap to show how nice guys, and yes nice girls cop it too, get treated like dirt.
Yet people who obviously like to pick fights online and harass people for their opinions are more then egar to dump on me and bully me for doing so.
Yeah my post was it was negative. I was in a negative mood at the time. How can being treated like crap be positive?
I don't need to justify my opinions to WB, Troyohboy or Cam1978 or answer to them when they don't like what I have said. I have a life past this keyboard and unlike some I don't need get my kicks from picking on someone because of what they have posted unlike others.

I am going to enjoy having lunch tomorrow with woman who sees me for the great guy I am told I am.

Posted by: chris261 at May 23, 2008 7:11 PM

"Chris, I'm not saying that youre less nice than the next guy or girl, just that youre nothing special...a concept you seem to find hard to deal with. I would have thought modesty was a necessary trait amongst those 'nice guys' out there."
hey I am only saying what people tell me. That is that I am a nice guy. As I said I see myself as just a guy going about life the way I like to. No one is special as far as I am concerned.

"When I say harden up I dont mean go and beat sense into a woman. I mean get some backbone about being an individual human being. You dont deserve anything you havent earnt in life and this goes for relationships as well. Being a 'bend over backwards' kinda guy for a girl who doesnt really want that in a guy, doesnt mean that the girl let you down. It means that you chose poorly in either (1) your choice of partner or (2) your way of interacting with said partner."
I never did say I was bending over backwards or that she let me down nor did I say You meant that i should go and beat up a woman.

"Anyways, where does it say that you have to do every little thing for a girl to be considered a nice guy? Shes a female mate, not a cripple. You want recognition for offering palliative care then go date a granny. (no offence meant to any grannies in here.)"
Where did I say I was doing eveything for her.

"Treat her as an equal, but keep an open mind about what keeps the two of you on an even par. There are things she might want to you to do for her that dont marry up with your ideas of things you want to do for her and vice versa. Communication....very important."
I did exactly that.

"Also, if your doing these things for her out of some pre-arranged notion of how to treat a girl then the question needs to be asked: are you really doing these things for her, or simply so you can say 'gee what a swell guy I am!'"
Well blow me I thought the pre-arranged notion on how to treat a woman was with decency. Seams to be what the whole of society has been saying for years
I said it before and I will say it again. I do things just because thats me. I don't think "Well I will do this or that for her and she will think more of me."

"Forget what I initially said about being a man, how about you just be a mature adult human being and accept that things dont always go to plan whether it be your work life, social life or love life. Adapt to change mate, accept that you dont know everything about everything,"
I am a mature adult and I have been living in the real world for quite a while. I have adapted to change quite a lot having lived in several place and had several jobs aswell as making a major career change thanks to a broken hip.
I don't have to accept things or even like them they are just there and I deal with it as I always have. I have the right to voice my opinion about something and I know all to well things dont always work out or goto plan.
"move on and stop judging negatively a whole bunch of people youve never even met in a forum like this little tho in the real world."
Maybe you should take your own advice and stop judging me on one post I made.
Your hollier then thou stance seams to make me think you are more likely to go around saying what a swell guy I am then myself.

Posted by: chris261 at May 23, 2008 7:10 PM

After reading the comment by cam1978, I am torn between wishing I was 20 years younger (and lighter..) or that Cam is 20 years older and lived in S W Sydney!!!
Wise words from a seemingly well adjusted and mature young man...
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 7:02 PM

TW your masculine side is showing...the one that doesn't like to be queried, questioned or rebuffed...in a debating sense that is.....descending into the playground now..............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 23, 2008 7:00 PM

Brings a whole new meaning to two and a half men !!

Posted by: iaminperth at May 23, 2008 6:46 PM

I originally thought DOM meant 'dirty old man'....:-)
I have no idea what Deo Optimus Maximus means though! Something to do with big or most is my guess though!! Can you please interpret for us oldergent?
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 6:23 PM

laughsandtalks at 12:37: Very droll. Loved it.

She who must be dead right every single time:

Guessed I'd hit the nail yesterday, but had forgotten that effluent can flow only downhill, from those who imagine themselves up on Mt Everest down onto us ordinary humans in the foothills.

Really admire your different rules for yourself and others. Nothing like a sloping playground to aid the weaker debater.

I hope you soon feel well enough not to need to pose rhetorical questions on the blogs, so that you can imagine yourself demolishing anybody who humours you by playing along.

Robert you are so right. Both times.

PS: Kugel from the founder, Fraulein Kugelkopf of the spherical head.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 23, 2008 6:19 PM

Chris, I'm not saying that youre less nice than the next guy or girl, just that youre nothing special...a concept you seem to find hard to deal with. I would have thought modesty was a necessary trait amongst those 'nice guys' out there.

When I say harden up I dont mean go and beat sense into a woman. I mean get some backbone about being an individual human being. You dont deserve anything you havent earnt in life and this goes for relationships as well. Being a 'bend over backwards' kinda guy for a girl who doesnt really want that in a guy, doesnt mean that the girl let you down. It means that you chose poorly in either (1) your choice of partner or (2) your way of interacting with said partner.

Anyways, where does it say that you have to do every little thing for a girl to be considered a nice guy? Shes a female mate, not a cripple. You want recognition for offering palliative care then go date a granny. (no offence meant to any grannies in here.)

Treat her as an equal, but keep an open mind about what keeps the two of you on an even par. There are things she might want to you to do for her that dont marry up with your ideas of things you want to do for her and vice versa. Communication....very important.

Also, if your doing these things for her out of some pre-arranged notion of how to treat a girl then the question needs to be asked: are you really doing these things for her, or simply so you can say 'gee what a swell guy I am!'

Forget what I initially said about being a man, how about you just be a mature adult human being and accept that things dont always go to plan whether it be your work life, social life or love life. Adapt to change mate, accept that you dont know everything about everything, move on and stop judging negatively a whole bunch of people youve never even met in a forum like this little tho in the real world.

Posted by: cam1978 at May 23, 2008 6:14 PM

twoeyes at 3.07pm: Triplets sounds better than quads, especially at nappy-change time. But you are right and you are welcome.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 23, 2008 5:53 PM

Ha OG l could think of other things that DOM would stand for..........K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 23, 2008 5:06 PM

Yair TW,
Deo Optimus Maximus. LOL
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 23, 2008 4:47 PM

Twoeyed, l doubt that WB would put you into that basket....
More the SNAG basket l would think.....

Chris, l read your post as being negative, as in negative towards the particular ex, but on reading it a second tiime l think it does come across as being negative in general.....

Sometimes that happens when we you are referring to an ex, it is easy to comment on the things that went wrong and how it hurt you.

Hard to draw a line in the sand and walk away, but that is the most sage advice that l have ever heard....that and take a deep breath......................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 23, 2008 4:41 PM

Very funny Marcus, that was a good laugh, especially "Good value but not quite up to scratch"...designed to get a bite? You'll have to try harder than that. I imagine that's what she says about you, too, when you're not there.

And TW, you have deteriorated to identifying knicker-colours and the language of a four-year old - calling women "Miss Bossy"? No comment from me, except once again you have shown yourself to be a DOM.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 3:36 PM

Just FYI, Oldergent, Marcus and Timewarp are our resident Bloke Brigade

with infrequent posts from moi thanks WB

Posted by: twoeyes at May 23, 2008 3:07 PM

Blushing again here...thank you.
Will move the car stuff up, but I hate my teeth so will leave that alone! I appreciate all the advice. It will be interesting to see if I get any response cos the kiss rate hasn't been real flash lately!!
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 1:54 PM

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 9:04 PM
Barbara, I think your profile is very good. I have two suggestions.
1. Bring the paragraph that you have under sports the one about cars up into the main section. Most guys have at least a passing interest in cars and this is a hook to start a conversation.
2. Get into the main section something about your smile. You have a beautiful smile and great teeth (I used to be marketing director of a toothpasre company) maybe it can go in the second line.
A profile is basically an advert to ellicit responses for you to then sort out.

Your line re weight was very good. The reality is that almost every one is a least a bit overweight. You have the height to carry it. Let"s face it in real with that smile and height you are a knock out. Goof ,luck. grego

Barbara

Posted by: grego7 at May 23, 2008 1:12 PM

waterbeetle at May 22, 2008 8:36 PM

"I'm guessing that what you want, boys, is a gorgeous 35year old woman who is in great shape, intelligent, has a good job, no kids, interesting hobbies, great friends, owns a house, 2 cars and a boat, never contradicts you, does all the housework, cooking, cleaning and laundry while you watch telly, knows her place, accepts that you are always right, wants sex daily if not more often, and adores and cherishes you....right?"
----------------------

I have a FWB pretty much like that. A little older and she back chats a bit. Good value but not quite up to scratch.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 23, 2008 12:37 PM

waterbombe at 9:12am: You forgot dipping the ends of their plaits in the inkwell, and yelling "I seen yer knickers, an' I know what colour they are!"

How about you answer my previous open-ended questions, Miss Bossy, before you ask me to answer your later closed question?

That concise enough for your attention span, ma'am?

PS: Maybe yesterday I had just happened to guess the colour of your knickers?

Questions, questions, questions ....

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 23, 2008 12:17 PM

Chris @ 11.56 pm.
Once again your post is sure to get up the nose of the femme,(thank goodness most here aren't). Your statement about not wanting to give your life for a few hundred people is negated when you risk it for one person. I held that view as a youngster, till one day the roof of the mine dropped, trapping a particularly nasty type against the face. The unit collectivey did not like him, but to a man we went in with the roof still dribbling to get him out. We all got a cursory nod of thanks later at pit top, he didn't change to us nor us to him. I think somehow that a lot of women would not understand the male attitude. We did it because we would expect it to be done for us, not to be touchy feely and gather around and change our attitude. He was a mongrel before and a mongrel after the incident.

B, Lass, control is needed today or some of those oldies will get ideas.lol

TW, nothing upsets more than ignoring the faceless nuisance.

Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 23, 2008 10:22 AM

Generally it only takes an hour or two for a post to appear, G. and not many of us are 'perfect' bloggers...I've been censored a few times, so have many others...on reflection I thought my posts were cut for going ABTF (a bit too far). It's just a blog after all and its purpose is primarily for entertainment. I did get really sick of all the uncensored misogynism that we used to have to put up with in 'the old days' .

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 10:16 AM

Wb, I think that chris believes that if he keeps telling himself and others that he is a nice, yet tough masculine sensitive bloke it will become true. I think a previous blogger had it right when he suggested he harden up and be a man which does not mean being a bully even if he could only achieve this in written form.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 23, 2008 10:09 AM

Hey Nina.. agree with you @ 10.10pm last night. This not posting in real time has whiskers on it hence my very infrequent posting of late. Loses the spontaniety when you have to wait till next day for a response and sometimes are not available to check next day. Oh to turn back the clock!!!!

Karina... Can we please consider reinstating those trusted bloggers of old who did not offend. The sandpit was much more fun way back then...

Have a good one all... Cheers...G

Posted by: amdoingit at May 23, 2008 9:44 AM

Chris, just a bit of thought re your blog...these statements seem to contradict your nice guy image:

"You are so wrong"...is that nice, Chris? .

"Most of us are not nice people when it comes to the crunch" ..really? Is that a nice thing to say? Would a nice person believe that?

" I am not a jerk like most guys"....Most guys are jerks? Would a nice person believe that?

"People as usual are too gutless to say (this)"..would a nice person think this of others, Chris?.

" I'm pretty sure I'm tougher than you and most men on this site"...wooo...is this a nice guy speaking? Or is this a bully speaking?

You are not that convincing with the 'nice guy' image, Chris.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:39 AM

TW...a quick response...much of what I write is tongue-in-cheek. You seem to miss that.
And my earlier question re "I don't like romance, what is wrong with me?" was designed to stir the pot a little. The blog was stalled and I wanted to re-start it because I was stuck at home for a day, sick, and I was bored. I didn't expect anyone to take it seriously. I notice it is the men with egos and a dislike of women who did take it seriously.

Now as to my gender-bias...nup. Don't have one. I'm into equality...which will mean you guys will have to give up a little...because at the moment you have more than your fair share.

TW, you do have a gender bias though, and you project it onto women instead of seriously examining your own behaviours and attitudes. But you'd never actually do that, I think you would continue to obfuscate the issue with many words.

Your (unanswered) questions to me were about how I behave in my personal relationship..remember I have one, so questions like that are not hypothetical for me like they would be for you...I don't answer those sorts of questions on a blog. Those are private questions. And as I said in another blog, I don't take kindly to people trying to work out my psychology because I think both amateur and professional pychologists have worse mental health than the average maths teacher.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:28 AM

God you're good Perth! : "I think the mafia is a good example...impeccable manners I think". Exxaccerly. "Let me hold this door open for you sir, would you mind moving through promptly sir, my partner is waiting to shoot you in the next room and we don't want to keep him waiting, punctuality is just SO important. Thank you sir, now if you wouldn't mind just facing the wall...BAM!!!".

Chris, you didn't come across as a nice guy to me...you came across as a whinger who said awful things about his ex while claiming to be 'nice'. Cam1978's comments are worth a deeper thought, I'd say.

@ Cam1978: Just FYI, Oldergent, Marcus and Timewarp are our resident Bloke Brigade ...I call them the Terrifying Triplets. They try really hard to frighten all the girls. They drop spiders, they throw mud, they leave mouldy sandwiches under your desk lid at school...you know the sort of thing.

TW, you could have posted a one sentence answer, you know..."yes, I think I have something to learn from a woman about male-female relations" or "no, I don't think I have anything to learn from a woman about male-female relations" would have sufficed. Now I am going to have to apply for leave from work to read what you have written. What's your problem with making short succint statements? Aren't you a writer...didn't you tell us you had taught writing for a crust at one stage? What is going on here?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:12 AM

Good morning all...
Thanks for the feedback....am actually blushing...
Have a lovely Friday,
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 8:55 AM

I forgot to say thanks for the backup OG.
I don't whinge I state my opinion. In this case it is one that people don't like because it is very true.

Chris

Posted by: chris261 at May 23, 2008 12:04 AM

bm1960 at 9:04pm: Feedback on your profile as requested:
1) You're gorgeous to look at.
2) You say the right stuff in your profile.
3) Come on fellers!

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 22, 2008 11:57 PM

Posted by: cam1978 at May 22, 2008 9:05 PM

"To Chris the 'nice guy': mate, the reality is that the vast majority of us dont fall into the catagory of 'nice' or 'not nice' people. We are simply 'people'. When you go off on a crusade of striving to be a nice guy to impress the ladies or because thats how you like to be treated yourself, then youre showing that theres no real altruistic motive in your behaviour, which kinds of throws a spanner in the works of the nice guy act."

Sorry to say this but you are so wrong.
The reality is most of us are not nice people when it comes to the crunch.
I do the things I do because thats how I am. I also like to be treat the same way.
I don't act or pretend to be someone I am not. I just be who I am.
People label me as nice. I just think I am someone who gets on with life and treats people the way I want to be treated without actually thinking "Oh I will be nice to this person so they are nice to me!".
For me it is inate behaviour.

"Now most of us understand that altruism doesnt really exist, but you seem to think it defines you without realising how equally devoid of it you really are."

How would you know?
Apart from not wanting to give my own life for the good of a few hundred people one thing I am noted for is that I have a general care and regard for others. So devoid is pretty far off the mark.
What defines me is I am not a jerk like most guys. I am a genuine guy who does things he does because that's who I am. Ask anyone who knows me and they would tell you the same.

"Now lets just imagine for a second that you really are this all round nice guy: why are you on here griping about your ex, making generalisations about people youve never met and generally just having a whinge? You dont sound like a nice guy, you sound like a guy whose running out of options because the one thing you've relied on in relationships (the easy thing) is being submissive to women hoping they'll take pity on you or feel obliged to return the ' favour' and then complaining when they dont rate you well as a result."

Well lets face the fact that I am told I am a nice guy all the time.
Lets face the face that I haven't made generalisations, I have actually stated something that people think but as usual are too gutless to say.
I am just a guy who is told he is nice and I am just putting across an example of how being a nice guy and being yourself can get you screwed over. It just happens to be about an ex.
I don't go around acting submissive so women will take pity on me. What is that going to get me. Nothing much.
I'm too busy getting on with my life and enjoying what I have.

"Harden up mate, your a man and regardless of all this affirmative action going around these days, women want you to act like one from time to time."

Don't tell me to harden up. I'm pretty sure I'm tougher then you and most men on this site.
As for affirmative action. I think most of it is a load of Bull and feminism gets up my nose.

"PS - have a listen to The Offspring's 'Self Esteem', I think its kinda relevant."

In what way?
It's got no relevance at all.
I use the example of my ex treating me like crap at the end of a relationship. So what. It was a one off situation.
I came out the end with more self confidence then I've ever and tougher then I've ever been.

Seriously what a joke!
I have just said what lots of people think.
You obviously didn't like it.

WB
I never said I was going to change and treat women like crap.
I am smart enough to know that treating women like crap or being submissive is not the way to meet someone.
I just stated how I feel some days and what is actually happening right now.

I know what being a man is.
I do it everyday.

Posted by: chris261 at May 22, 2008 11:56 PM

waterbombe - your demanded response at last!

Re your question at 6.09pm on the 21st, asking why you are so furiously averse to chivalrous male behaviour? (To the extent of threatening to reward it with physical assaults of specified types - go re-read your post.)

I thought it was a genuine question, rather than a conversation-stopper statement of values, camouflaged as a question.

So I tried at 10.10pm to help you answer your question about yourself (usually a person's favourite topic ...) by hypothesising why you personally might be like that. Based on what I've noticed you posting during the last 6 months. Which is all I really know about you.

And I asked you a couple of honest questions back, at the end of my post. Still unanswered.
................................................................

At 12:02am last night you responded to my hypothesis with:

"TW, I'm just curious about this post. It is a long lecture to me on male-female relations etc and what I have to learn. Here's my question. Is there any way you can think of in which I might have more knowledge/authority on this subject than you? What I am asking is, is there any way you could see yourself as having something to learn and me having something to teach you about this topic?" ... "Under what conditions or circumstances could you see yourself as less knowlegeable than me on the topic of male-female relations?"

Then at 1.20pm you followed up with "btw I'm still waiting for an answer to my question at 12:02 AM"

Drumming your fingers on the table, lass?
..............................................................

I have only now seen both of these posts of yours, at mid-evening. Plus a lot of your other posts today, including some to others which seemed to me to display a significantly more aggressive gender bias even than what you usually disclose to us.

At 2.47am last night I posted on another topic "It's not WHO people are that matters." I went on to suggest that it is what people DO that matters. Or fail to do.
..............................................................

So in answer to your totally irrelevant questions to me at 12.02am, instead of maintaining the dialogue by answering my previous questions:

Lecturing in management back in the 1970s, I was inter alia pushing the barrow that confining decision-making and planning to top management is not only bad for profits - it's bad for staff morale.

I coined the slogan "A good idea doesn't care who has it - as long as no-one judges it by its source, rather than by its value."
................................................................

I suspect that the reason for your 12.02 post was that I had cheekily dared to reply to your 6.09pm question, although it had been expressly qualified with the inappropriately elitist rider "Well can I seek some expert opinions?"

So I believe you were hoping at 12.02am for a chance to attack my academic qualifications in gender studies, rather than continuing with the discussion that you had initiated about your reasons for being so chivalry-averse.
..............................................................

I'll come clean, Waterbombe. I haven't even got a Spinster Degree in Affirmative-action Militant Feminism from Kugel Krushing Kollege.

So I have to guess that something that I postulated as a cause of your unusually-developed chivalry-aversion must have been close enough to the truth to touch a nerve, so that you were tempted to try to discredit my credentials, instead of evaluating my argument, irrespective of its source.

"How dare he buy in? Who does he think he is?"

My point is that it doesn't matter a toss (or a fig or whatever) WHO I am. What matters is whether my intentions are good and my analysis is accurate.

If so, only an academic snob will try to duck the argument by attacking the person.
...............................................................

Waterbome, I did not offer you at 10.10pm "a long lecture to (you) on male-female relations etc and what (you) have to learn."

You had asked a question on an open blog about what had led to your unusually negative response to chivalrous male behaviour.

I had simply offered you a hypothesis that I thought might be illuminating to you personally. About you personally.

No generalisations - just an idea about what might have taken you personally so far out onto the negative tail of a certain frequency distribution.

Time I got out of your life and back into my own. Peace and love.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 22, 2008 11:29 PM

I don't quite understand the comparison between being nice and having good manners. I am sure there are a lot of nice people who have bad manners for whatever reason and some not very nice people having very good manners...I think the mafia is a good example...impeccable manners I think. Manners are manners and quite often good manners are more important, perhaps when a woman gives up her seat to a very elderly male, or a younger male with an injury. What does it matter, if we all displayed non judgemental good manners I think the world would be a much better place.I think one of the funniest things I have been involved with was a time when about five women, me included were running for a lift and the one and only gent displayed beautiful manners and stopped to hold open the door, unfortunately, we all thought he would pelt thru first and we all more of less ran over the top of him and just about flattened him. Much, much laughter all around I can tell you and lots of noise and straightening of clothes when getting out. Appropriate good manners nowadays are blurred so I guess try to be sensitive to your partners needs.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 22, 2008 10:27 PM

Looks like one of posts got lost BM.
The one before mine at 9.46. To encapsulate, I think your second photo is lovely and should be your first.

By the way that last sentence should have read: I've been around for a bit (not I've around for a bit - that hardly makes sense, does it?).

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 10:19 PM

Hi Cam@9.05pm
I did not read Chris's piece as a whinge, nor do I think the actions he took were just done to lure a woman into his web, nor do I think that men who pay these courtesies of respect to women naturally, should be dumped on by some of the posters here. Being a "nice guy" certainly does not mean you are soft, a lot of people would not tell me to "harden up". But it is a truism that nice guys finish last and has been the case in a lot my experience over the years. I would like to hear the comment of one particular Femme if a man was to walk past her being assulted, and he did not intervene
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 22, 2008 10:12 PM

Grrr. I'm not used to having to tap my foot and wait for my comments to be 'approved' by the moderators like the way it was back in the dim, dark days when the blogs first began.

Later, to everyone's delight, we could post in real time. What a joy! Until a few nasty and malicious people made inappropriate comments. Now we all suffer. RSVP - please reinstate the notion of 'trusted bloggers' who can post without censor until such time as they betray that trust. Though better than it was in 'the old days', this system is still not entirely satisfactory.

I'm off to bed. I'll check if my recent posts have been approved, tomorrow night.

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 10:10 PM

BM - I just had a read through your profile with a more critical eye. I've read it before but from a different perspective. I think it is great!. Really! I like your humour ('cause I reckon it is similar to mine). My only comment, apart from the one I made earlier about your photo, is that you could put a couple of paragraphs (just hit 'enter' again) in the main body of your profile. A little 'white space' makes it easier to read. Otherwise - love it (but remember, I've around for a bit)!

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 9:46 PM

Exactly, Cam1978!! That was well put! And acting like a man doesn't mean "treat women like shit", Chris. There are more ways to be a man than mean/nasty or submissive/pleading.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 9:37 PM

To Chris the 'nice guy': mate, the reality is that the vast majority of us dont fall into the catagory of 'nice' or 'not nice' people. We are simply 'people'. When you go off on a crusade of striving to be a nice guy to impress the ladies or because thats how you like to be treated yourself, then youre showing that theres no real altruistic motive in your behaviour, which kinds of throws a spanner in the works of the nice guy act.

Now most of us understand that altruism doesnt really exist, but you seem to think it defines you without realising how equally devoid of it you really are.

Now lets just imagine for a second that you really are this all round nice guy: why are you on here griping about your ex, making generalisations about people youve never met and generally just having a whinge? You dont sound like a nice guy, you sound like a guy whose running out of options because the one thing you've relied on in relationships (the easy thing) is being submissive to women hoping they'll take pity on you or feel obliged to return the ' favour' and then complaining when they dont rate you well as a result.

Harden up mate, your a man and regardless of all this affirmative action going around these days, women want you to act like one from time to time.

PS - have a listen to The Offspring's 'Self Esteem', I think its kinda relevant.

Posted by: cam1978 at May 22, 2008 9:05 PM

I have noticed a lot of bloggers, and lurkers, have looked at my profile recently....any advice on how to improve it....I wrote about what is important to me, but a salesperson I am not...all advice taken without offence.
Cheers,
B.
PS...Can't do anything about the phots...cameras genuinely hate me.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 9:04 PM

I was accused of being a 'Feminist' recently....I retorted by saying I am an 'Egalitarian'....but when I think about it, I prefer to be a 'Barbara'...a little bit of this, a little bit of that, which means that I mix the old ways with the new and hope I have a reasonable recipe for life in this century.
I am me. My favourite adjective to describe me is actually...'odd'...I like that word.
Cheers,
Barbara :-)

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 8:49 PM

Marcus, I do get taken out and of course being the model of egalitarianism that I am, I do take my partner out too....but I have never been flummoxed by a door. Call it what you will...brains, brawn, beetle bravado... doors do not a problem make for a Waterbomber.

Aren't you guys focussing on trivia? What a surprise. It's as if opening a door gets you brownie points, and you want to be recognised as the stronger sex because you can do it....fer gods sake. We don't need help with opening the doors....get behind the laundry, the cooking, the cleaning, the shopping, sitting up with the kids all night when they have a fever....those things don't take physical strength, they take stamina, energy and time. Time that, by the look of it, you Triplets spend mostly on the couch thinking about how disappointed you are with women and blogging to tell the rest of the world that.

I'm guessing that what you want, boys, is a gorgeous 35year old woman who is in great shape, intelligent, has a good job, no kids, interesting hobbies, great friends, owns a house, 2 cars and a boat, never contradicts you, does all the housework, cooking, cleaning and laundry while you watch telly, knows her place, accepts that you are always right, wants sex daily if not more often, and adores and cherishes you....right?
And you offer....precisely what?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 8:36 PM

Off topic as well....I totally enjoy doing a random act of kindness...I think nothing of it at the time, but the recipient shows their surprise and appreciation and that is what makes it enjoyable. Just saying hello to someone who looks despondent, sad or lonely generates a reaction from them that impacts on them and they actually react with a smile themselves....I love doing that.
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 8:27 PM

Marcus, what on earth are you talking about??

I mentioned Brad Pitt and Harrison Ford to someone else, not you, in a joke, which was acknoledged by that person and you run out with some rubbish about male performers being paragons.....What the ??

As usual you are hijacking another conversation.
Next you will be dragging animals and there sexual habits into the conversation.....as you do........ an unapologetic opinion from me.
Next topic please............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 22, 2008 8:23 PM

Eeeww Marcus, what the ?? That's not a nice thing to say...where are you hanging ?? I like a guy to open a door as you get to do the really close up little flirt bit, the look in the eyes, the gentle brush of skin as you walk past, the smile, the pause....all good fun, lol

Posted by: iaminperth at May 22, 2008 8:13 PM

ISTJ re the 'runner' - very funny!

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 8:10 PM

I agree with ISTJ and others. Opening doors for others has to do with manners, not romance. I do it all the time, whether it be for male or female, young or old. Ditto with giving up my seat on public transport. If someone is struggling or looks like they have had a bad day, they deserve some consideration. Which brings me (oops, not on topic) to random acts of kindness. They really give me a kick!

The look of surprise and appreciation on a total stranger's face is reward in itself. I have been known to cheerily give (I hesitate to use the word strange here, but that is what they are) little old ladies (well, older than me) lifts from the local supermarket to their home just because I can. I pick things up (and return them, in case you wonder) if someone drops something. I have paid a dollar or two if someone is short at the cash registrar.

I'm sure almost everyone else on here does the same. It is so rewarding, isn't it? They are all little gestures but they make a difference to someone, I think.

Posted by: ninaschen at May 22, 2008 8:07 PM

auntykaz at May 22, 2008 6:49 PM
Maybe I hang out of the wrong women? Pardon?
I do get disappointed when people who should know better hold (male) performers as absoute paragons of desirability and worth. I just get mildly irritated when the same people, often opinionated, but usually bereft of an original thought or a reasoned perspective crticise unapologetic objectivity.

Waterbeetle. Doors, the self opening and closing ones are pretty easy to deal with, a 'you first' gesture rather than effort makes the man courteous. Most building doors, say restaurant doors, are not so easy to open- by design. You are generally working against the resistance of the self closing device that a presumably male designer has provided for the builder. Perhaps you need to be taken out every so often so you can see what really happens out there..

Cheers Marcus.

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 22, 2008 7:57 PM

Troy

In that case WB's comment would still have been approriate

Posted by: ynotalice at May 22, 2008 7:26 PM

The drama of the nice guy....
Chapter 13......

the nice women feel the same way............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 22, 2008 6:54 PM

...he's saying that all those married/partnered women are apparently with jerks and all the single guys are the nice ones...the women just can't see it though:)) They're too busy opening doors for themselves...the light ones anyways.
Can't really see that opening a door is romantic...just good manners.
I can remember sitting waiting in a car for my date to come around and open the door for me. Took a minute or two to see he was half way up the street pretending to run...it was pretty funny actually.

Posted by: istj54 at May 22, 2008 6:52 PM

Sean Connery, Marcus, is in his seventies l think, and may l just say, eewwww. Old enough to be my dad.....

Dunno what you are on about there, it was a reply to Grego.
Nothing wrong with Jack Nicholson as an actor, one of my favorite films was "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest", and a devil of a man too, he just has that something.

Maybe you hang out with the wrong women, Marcus, as they all seem to disappoint you so much.....
Or maybe you need to broaden your horizons...................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 22, 2008 6:49 PM

...he's saying that all those married/partnered women are apparently with jerks and all the single guys are the nice ones...the women just can't see it though:)) They're too busy opening doors for themselves...the light ones anyways.

Posted by: istj54 at May 22, 2008 6:49 PM

Re the Nice Guys: So whaddya saying, Woody?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 6:02 PM

Woody thanks for that post from what can only be a very wise young head, but it could have been said in my young days, if there is one constant in life it is that "nice guys finish last".
Chris, been there too, but I did get lucky and met the one that was wise enough to know, with the second now she is back with the no hopers wants a nice guy back. my lesson learned this time. But there are some nice ones still out there, unfortunately the are 30 years and so to young.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 22, 2008 5:58 PM

Marcus, get those female "self closers who walk away and shut the door with a force 10 back hand slam that moves the catch" to open the heavy doors that small women battle with. Simple. Problem solved for women by women.

Two points.
1. Builders have been making doors that are easy to open for years.
2. If we have to open a 10' steel door to a bank vault or the equivalent (the Ritz, say) we will ask you and admire your manly strength, if you have it, that is if you have not been sitting on the couch watching sports on telly for 20 years. Or if you are not up to the task, we will ask a female door slammer with a force 10 back hand friend to do it.

Point being, it's strength that moves heavy objects. Doors are not usually tricky to open. On the odd occasions they are, a big man or a big woman can do it. You don't need a penis to open a door, Marcus...I suggest you never use it for that in case the woman you are squiring is a female door slammer with a force 10 back hand slam.

Troy, *sigh*....youth, beauty and modesty...and you don't let it hold you back! So glad to see you dating older unnattractive women.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 5:56 PM

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 2:09 PM

That's a great one Woodnwine.

The issue for me is I don't want to meet a woman who has finally seen the light esp after she has been with a few dozen men.
I've had enough of hearing the "I want to meet a nice guy!"
Esp on this site.
I'd rather be hit by a truck tomorrow then settle for someone who spent their 20s out partying, picking up different guys all the time.
I had the friend who would fall asleep drunk on my shoulder or in my car on the way to her house. I never made a move on her and she knew I wouldn't
We got together. I didn't change or do anything different to when we were just friends. I drove her to Basketball, because I like to watch her play, I would drive when we went out because I am not a big drinker. I would drive all the way from Bundoora to the Police academy because she was lonely when she start her training. I'd would turn the electric blanket on if I knew she was coming over to stay the night. One day she was on placement locally and stayed at my place. She went out with a friend and was in such a rush she just threw her suit on the bed when getting changed. I picked her up and brought her home. When she walked in to see her suit hanging up she asked why did I hang it up.
I just Shrugged my shoulders and said "I don't know. I just wanted to!"
I didn't expect to get anything from it and I thought she would have done the same for me.
2.5 months later she gave me the flick.
Why? As far as I'm concerned, it is because I'm a guy who does things his way. Which happens to be the right way. I treated her how I wanted to be treated. Nicely.
As far as I'm concerned. Most women only want a nice guy when it is convenient. The traffic only runs one way and when you start "Saying what about me!" When you are not convenient any more. They will dump you go back to the pricks and assholes.

Everytime I get knocked back I look at my copy of The Game and think stuff it. If you can beat them join them.
Eventually there will be no nice guys because we will all be so sick of being 2nd best, the friend, boyfriend material but not for her, he's to sweet, too nice. We will become just like every other guy.
It's happening every day. Dozens of guys are paying to learn how to become PUAs and most women don't even see them coming.
Personally I want to be wanted for who I am not who some guy can teach me to be.

So in all truth. "Nice Guys Finish Last!"
That is unless you look like Brad Pit or George Clooney or your as rich as Packer.

Chris

BTW
As for the ex. I'm glad she is gone.
Fruit Loop hardly describes what she is.
Hindsight is a great thing.

Posted by: chris261 at May 22, 2008 5:31 PM

Tryboy you could have had an imaginary conversation with yourself....
"after you".... "no after you, l insist", and then walked through the door.....probably wouldn't have gone down too well though.

I would never rebuff a man for opening the door for me, l think it shows manners at the very least.
I doubt whether romance has anything to do with it, well not for me anyway, but good manners never go astray..................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 22, 2008 4:23 PM

auntykaz at May 22, 2008 12:57 PM
Harrison Ford is it? I thought it was George Clooney. Sean Connery must be for the over 60's.
It wouldn't be ol' Jack Nicholson though would it? He famously and recently said that most men only think about a woman for an hour after sex.
"We have more in common with a male dog than we do with a woman in this department," he says " This may be male chauvinism in a certain context. But, baby it's also science"

Opening a door is a matter of common courtesy. If I'm there first I'll open it for anyone, and hold it open for a group. The origin of door opening, despite what some stupidly cynical Womyns Studies graduates might think, is not a reprehensible chauvinistic plot but practicality and a mannered acknowledgement that men on average are about 30% stronger than women, markedly more so in upper body strength. It makes practical sense. I mean literally you could wait out side a heavy door while a small woman battled with it (and worked out which way it swung).
I've usually been a car door opener, but am now confirmed. Years ago I politely said to a companion "I'll get it for you". Ignoring mehe managed to chip and scrape the paint from the door bottom of my elderly Porsche as it dragged against a bluestone kerb. The other risk I identify car doors with is self closers who walk away and shut the door with a force 10 back hand slam that moves the catch.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 22, 2008 3:40 PM

WB, being both younger and more beautiful than my date your advice, whilst appreciated, would not have eased my dilema....haha.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 22, 2008 3:24 PM

Hi Everyone - hope you don't mind if I jump in.

Opening doors shows respect - romance however is a feeling, a moment shared between two people (or maybe more).

Your right Waterbombe - taking that little bit of extra effort is a part of what romance is, it shows you care.

My main worry is that these days some people seem in such a hurry or out for instant gratification that they forget how great the little things can be, a written post it hidden in a place you know your partner or lover will find it, a single flower, preparing a bath for her or just spending time genuinely being interested in what her views, troubles, or day has been like. All these and more are what makes up something romantic.

I can't speak for other cultures but for me, well every moment I spend breathing is fantastic and if I can also spend some of that time showing in as an original way as possible how much I care for or like being with someone - well it just doubles the pleasure of being alive.

Posted by: rustiknight at May 22, 2008 3:16 PM

waterbombe - I've on several occassions offered to cook food and take it over to a sick partner's house.
Re: your comment "it's the amount of effort the bloke expends" .... do you really think so?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 2:12 PM

Ode to the Nice Guys
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal
This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

Fu-zu Jen, SEAS/WH, 2003

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 2:09 PM

@ Woodnwine ..."Waterbomber, maybe you are getting confused between fake romantic tactics designed to get into your .... and genuine loving gestures.".

Nup. It isn't genuinely loving to open the car door for me unless my back is playing up. But it is genuinely loving to make me a big pot of chicken soup when I have the flu. The bloke has to make considerably more effort to make the soup than to open a door. That's generally how I tell the difference between fake romantic tactics designed to get into my.... and genuine loving gestures....it's the amount of effort the bloke expends.

Oh, I can't help being cynical. If you guys think opening a door is a romantic gesture, why not run ahead of a woman and flick the light switches on, too, to save her the effort?

Now here's a genuinely romantic gesture. Cook up 2 or 3 meals, put them in freezer bags and take them over to your girlfriend's place next time you visit, so that when she comes home from work exhausted she can just re-heat them. And do it without any design to get into her....

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 1:40 PM

Ah, Troy, what a dilemma you were in...but you should have just said "age before beauty" and walked through first :-)

TW, thanks for telling me I made you laugh. I do try sometimes. Lighten up over the flirting comments...we all knew you were not trying to cut my bloke's lunch.

Interesting to hear you were inebriated/exhausted at the blogger's dinner...every time we spoke to you, you replied with a sentence that tailed off into nothing...I couldn't work out what was wrong. I wondered where all the words had gone.

As for "tearing strips off you"....you are yet again doing what sexist men do...personalising the argument instead of sticking to it's point. I disagree with your values and opinions, and I say so. That is not "tearing strips", that is having an informed opinion and voicing it. If you care to look back over my posts, I doubt you will find any personal slurs made by me to anyone. I disagree with people, but I don't engage in personal putdowns. To me, that smacks of a poor thinker...someone who adds emotional damage (they hope) to their argument because their logic is not good enough. Several people here do it routinely...it's a bad move, because it tells your listener that your argument is weak. You did it when you called women "bitches" because they didn't respond to your electronic kisses.

btw I'm still waiting for an answer to my question Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 12:02 AM . Anything to say there?

Posted by: waterbombe at May 22, 2008 1:20 PM

I try to hold back to see if a man offers to hold the door open etc. so that I can respond accordingly. To me, it is nice manners but not something I expect to happen often anymore. It is even the same in a work situation, if a male colleague wants to be a gentleman, I have no objection.
By the same token, if a lovely male had his hands full with wine and flowers for me, I would be very happy to be good mannered and hold the door open for him...
:-)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 12:22 PM

troy, that was pretty rude of that woman, I think. I think women can get hung up on stuff like that as being "sexist", when I see it as just "chivalrous" gestures that can be taken in the spirit they're intended, generously; a man's way of nurturing perhaps, where a woman nurtures in a different way. I don't see those things as being to do with "romance".

Posted by: malsie at May 22, 2008 11:52 AM

Grego@10;33
Sorry I reacted so strongly the other day...you've redeemed yourself with the last line!!!!

Posted by: ssshhh at May 22, 2008 11:23 AM

Ah, I wish, WnW - you smooth talker :)

Yes, BM, love pops up unexpectedly sometimes. I hope it does for you soon, and that you continue to enjoy your single state in the meanwhile.
On a cold day in Tassie today, you couldn't get much more of a dag than me at present - 2 pairs of socks (slippers even...) many jumpers... my hands were so cold for the first 2 hours I got up, even with the heater on, my fingers would hardly move to type the transcript I'm meant to be doing from home - which I'd really better get back to....

Posted by: malsie at May 22, 2008 11:02 AM

I once went on a date with a woman who refused to walk through the door I had opened for her as she told me it was sexist.
Funny to remember me standing there holding the door totally perplexed. We didn't get on.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at May 22, 2008 10:56 AM

Before my first serious date when I was 16 my mother told me to always open the car door for the girl. Have done it ever since.

Romanatic guestures I think are at their best when spontaneous.And hopefully can be discerned from mere tactics.

My mother was the first woman I ever slept with so have always valued her advice. grego

Posted by: grego7 at May 22, 2008 10:33 AM

I hope not malsie otherwise that would mean you have to wait another 40 odd years.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 10:03 AM

Malsie...lovely to hear about your mum finding happiness.
A few of my friends have found new partners recently...so it gives me hope that I may one day finally find 'my one'. In the meantime, I am happy being single and a winter dag...:-)
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 22, 2008 10:00 AM

Thanks, amberlight. Yes, after 37 years of "hard labour" wi