RSVP Blog
Can You Be Friends with Your Ex?
"I still want to be friends". "We are better as friends than lovers". Those words are the kiss of death in many relationships.
Let's first look at the break up. Are you done breaking it off? Do either of you have unresolved anger towards the other?
Is wanting to be friends now a subconscious excuse to be around this person on the hope that you'll get back together? Does this friendship always become friends with benefits?
What if you start seeing somebody else, is it fair to the new person that you remain friends with your ex?
Posted by May 20, 2008 8:16 AM
Latest Comments
I really do not think that there are as many players on this site as is made out...can't get my head around the idea of a whole generation of older men/women, re-entering the dating game, taking up the sport...I believe that people dating just find out more about each other and change their minds/feelings...whatever and decide not to continue...can be devestating/hurtful for the one left...who may have been drifting into a future with this person...but does not make them a player...it makes them not the one for you...you need to grieve what you were making of the relationship and move on in your search...lest you end up looking/being a bit desperate...It is just harder because we are all that much older and the search is so hard to find match and, when we think we have, we want to hang in there...just my thoughts from reading here...and I have done the same too:))
Posted by: istj54 at June 17, 2008 6:19 AM
To Eral.
I don't want to burn anyone. Now you are twisting my words. I think its great to have such a variety of degenerate artists and authors. As mentioned in my first blog i do not believe in censorship however I do believe there are certain aspects that do influence behavior in society. In reality television has only been around for a few generations and it's impact on society is yet to be determined. I'm not ready to think about the more current multi media's available. In truth I would be much more concerned about the environmental state of the world in which we live in. Maybe society will end up in survival mode before it destroys itself with self importance.
To everyone. (Including ERAL)
I am sorry.
I'm new to this blog thing. in actual fact new to this whole Internet thing. I truly thought I might be able to at least meet someone on this site. (better than sitting here on my own typing this crap in front of a computer screen).
I am most disappointed and ashamed at myself for making the effort to retort to the first negative blog sent my way rather than express my gratitude and thanks to the few who thought I had something worth while to say. I would love to hear from Woodnwine again and hope my negativity and wandering away from the original blog topic didn't offend you.
Cheers Rod
Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 17, 2008 1:08 AM
Jenniferhi, from both my personal experience and observation, I think TW wasn’t that far off the mark in what he described. Sure, perhaps there MAY be some genuine people on RSVP (so people say), but there are definitely many who are NOT (that I have met), who seem to dominate.
It seems the site attracts a lot of rebounding, confused, emotionally challenged guys (I can't speak for the girls, as I haven't dated any), who don't really know what they want, but like to share the pain around. If something’s not working out in their life, they can just jump onto RSVP for a 'quick fix' of company, distraction, sex, attention, time-fill, ego-buzz, or just to play with people pretending to be whoever they want to be. Women looking for love are easy pickings for the revolving door, being so willing, trusting and rosey-eyed.
My advice would be to go slow and get to know someone first, before getting physically and emotionally involved with anyone on-line. And keep away from the cheats, liars, personas, rebounders and emotionally impotent/frigid/cripples!
I’ve picked up a few clues of how to spot them and what to avoid ;) It's actually been a very growthful learning experience.
It's a shame they seem to get most of the lime-light. But I don't like to see the bad guys win - I say we should stay put, and stage a genuine nice people's on-line revolution! ;)
(Where's Stoic - he can be the President that leads the way!)
Decoratress and ERL - if you want to understand multiple cyber personas, check out the link: http://motspluriels.arts.uwa.edu.au/MP1901jd.html
Posted by: riversong01 at June 16, 2008 11:27 PM
Posted by: iaminperth at June 16, 2008 7:44 PM
Actually, no, was most definitely not looking for any kind of information from you re our equine friend.
Posted by: waterlily58 at June 16, 2008 11:03 PM
eats, roots, & leaves @ 12.00pm & June 15, 5.41pm...
Please read carefully - "FARCE" NOT 'exaggeration'
Dictionary..
FARCE: a comic dramatic work using buffoonery & typically including crude characterisation & ludicrously improbable situations.
..and you still haven't explained your statement "my multiple imaginary friends or personalities.."
Posted by: decoratress at June 16, 2008 10:07 PM
Timewarp - 9.07pm. Great post.
It saddens me to think that there are so many users, players manipulating those genuine people looking for love. I do believe though that RSVP is probably the best of the lot in terms of internet dating for the genuine seeker.
My experience has mostly been positive and I have met some fabulous guys, made great friends. Thought the possibilites were there with a couple but alas not to be. And you know the intuition was there, that niggly little voice saying NO. And was proved right yet again. I will always go with it now.
It's all a learning process. The positive posts by those who have made that special connection though is heart warming and I'm sure gives us all hope of finding our special someone.
To any of you users reading - get over yourselves. What goes around - comes around. You never will have a fulfilling life. Just think about how happy you really are in life. Not much I'm guessing. For what you take from life or another will also be taken from you somewhere along the line.
Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at June 16, 2008 10:04 PM
gemsnbling at 1:52pm: Think class clowns, 44.
Teacher wants the kids to study the textbook. Clowns want to forget learning today (and every other day) and replace it with "happenings" that make them the centre of attention, and ensure that the eternal outcome is the never-ending stroking of their own egos.
The power of the Pied Piper is highly addictive.
And yes - the profile you're thinking of is quite surreal. On purpose. For a joke.
..........................................................
On a far more serious note, I see that our own local Neighbours show is now being acknowledged by its Producer as fiction, rather than the troupe all still protesting querulously that they are all genuine flesh and blood, whenever challenged.
This is so sensible. If the puppets are authentic and interesting enough to be worth talking to, let's talk to them, knowing they're puppets.
Little of life is precisely what it seems. Everyone goes to a little bit of trouble in some parts of their life to project an image of themselves that they think will be more effective in getting them what they want, compared with their real selves, warts and all.
In their RSVP Profiles, they try to project a caricature of themselves that they hope will work for them. Sometimes even including studio glamour photos.
Of you all, only my new darling is likely to find out after a time, exactly how close my projected blog personality that you all know, comes near to the real me.
I said a while ago that I try to avoid hurting the feelings of other bloggers - even that new woman who seems determined to get up my nose.
(I wonder why she doesn't also tease OG - we three are all in the same age group, so much older than the rest of you. And he's not distracted by a romantic new love affair, or by trying to earn his living.)
But I don't mind really giving heaps to a puppet who's asking for it. They don't get as upset, because they're not the person who's scripting them.
It's just street theatre, where one player happens to be real, and the other is a puppet. Like DIY Walt Disney entertainment for third parties.
...............................................................
Then there's the third matter. There are predatory women in RSVP who spend their life suckering gullible men. Woo them, rip them off (if you own your house and she doesn't, beware) and then dump them flat with no warning.
And there are men like that here as well. Real cads, whether they rip you off, or only purposely steal your self-respect.
I guess it's the motivation - do they want to prove that they can capture your love, and then hurt you by dumping you, just for the sadistic thrill of doing that?
My slant is this - these people are just as twisted, whether they pick up their victims in a pub, in RSVP or on these blogs. Watch out for them all, and dob on any who've done it to you. They owe you for the ego trip.
Posted by: timewarp1 at June 16, 2008 9:07 PM
Kurli TW and WL wanted to know about Percherons. I think another thing they are used for is to collect blood to make anti venom products. Apparently there is a large laboratory in France that does this and supplies most of the supply for all types of drugs that are used for snake/spider bites or life threatening situations where dispersment is needed.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 16, 2008 7:44 PM
Ummmmmmmm, is it just me, or is there some kind of new humour (what's it called?) going on with the way a few guys on the blogs of late have set up there profiles.
It's sort of making me think the blogs are beginning to look like patients from the looney bin?
Posted by: gemsnbling at June 16, 2008 1:52 PM
Posted by: eleganteloquent at June 16, 2008 11:27 AM
hehehehEE,
the build up of methane in here must be getting to me ... !
Posted by: decoratress at June 16, 2008 9:21 AM
Ok - your starting to become disturbing.
My reply now to "Such a shame " email ?
- NO thanks.
please read carefully - "PERSONALITIES" NOT 'profiles'
As for my post being a farce ( i wish i was laughing ) - what specifically have i exaggerated ?
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 16, 2008 12:00 PM
Correction:
My post @ 9.21am should read:
"I repeat my query about your "multiple imaginary friends or personalities" (June 15, 5.41pm) ...?"
Posted by: decoratress at June 16, 2008 11:51 AM
Thus Spoke Zarathustra... really ERAL....come on mate.... emulating Nietzsche on a blog about staying friends with exs...just a wee bit pretentious, eh? Ok, open the guns, ready, aim, fire, blast back.....
Regarding exs and friends, I just had another date ring to tell me why we are not compatible (apparently I am too intellectual this time...remind me to avoid Homer Simpson in future), then tell me that he *really* wanted to stay friends with me...made me wonder what 'friends' are about. I like to be myself with friends, not feel the need to have to tone anything down but just be me, so can an ex actually be a friend but just look at how much we adjust and try to fit in with lovers. I am not so sure I can stand having a friend who I had to continually adjust to...can't really see how exs can be friends, the relationship is soooo different
Posted by: eleganteloquent at June 16, 2008 11:27 AM
eatsroots&leaves...
Yes, you are missing something..
Deliberately.
I've made my profile visible again, so please.. feel free to respond via email.
Your seemingly ingenuous post is a farce, & this new profile of yours is easily recognisable to many.
I repeat my query about your "multiple imaginary friends or profiles" (June 15, 5.41pm) ...?
What, then, do you mean?
Posted by: decoratress at June 16, 2008 9:21 AM
Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 15, 2008 7:54 PM
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
The art is to fulfill the dictum attributed to Einstein, without generalizing.
TV, movies, games etc ....Why stop there ? There are ALL of those degenerate artists, and authors we have to blame for the breakdown of our great society ! Burn them ALL shall we ?
-Thus Spoke Eatsrootsandleaves
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 16, 2008 9:02 AM
Jenhi@7.22 am
Thanks for your encouraging words Jen..It's the first time I've participated in such open blogging: my own private blog fades into mediocrity compared with the wide ranging topics and views aired here........feels like I've embarked on a cyber course for "educating kurli to the real world" VBG
Posted by: kurli at June 16, 2008 9:01 AM
decoratress at June 15, 2008 10:31 PM
Is there no method to your madness?
First you kiss me, and then the next day via another blog, you say i have poor morals, and imply that I may even be a lurking sociopath, and warn other members to stay away from me !
Yesterday, you email me, requesting we forget the past, and then asked for my friendship (note; an email which i was unable to respond to as you've made your profile invisible !) and now again you've returned to slandering me, over what is obviously an 'insider' attempt at humor.
Am i missing something? - talk about how to lose friends and infuriate people !
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 16, 2008 8:30 AM
Kurli - 10.46 pm.
Certainly know what you mean. There definitely are some very big ego's who love the sound of their own voice (or internet writings). But stick with it, because there really are some wonderful/insightful/caring people here as well. (And those big ego's fit into those catagories as well sometimes.) Please don't tar us all with the same brush.
Please continue to write. The site does need some new contributors. And it's obvious your insights will be very worthwhile and fun as well.
Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at June 16, 2008 7:22 AM
iaminperth - put a sock in it.
Posted by: riversong01 at June 15, 2008 11:08 PM
For the life of me................I CANNOT see the relevence between Percherons and dressag/and or "human relationship"
For god's/allah/.buddha's sake,GET a LIFE and get things into perspective!!
Stop concentrating on your id.......and think of the greater good.
You all seem to think (that)you are clevr/great/better than anyone.............
for yours and humanity's sake..........think past your EGO and do something worthwhile
Posted by: kurli at June 15, 2008 10:46 PM
Hi Virgil, I think deep down it is a phoney baloney. It is so cold and wet and windy here in Perth, can't believe it. Every day is so different, the weather is changing by the minute. I am so looking forward to the summer again. As you know there are problems also with gas supply, not sure if it affects SA but apparently next week it will be pretty bad for most business here, especially tourism, can't do the washing etc. I don't have any 6a.m. starts this week, new job so I am so looking forward to being able to sleep in until 7. Getting up at 5 to go to work in winter got a bit difficult after a while. I am hoping the gas shortage doesn't impact the guys in the field but we will face that problem if it happens.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 10:32 PM
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 5:41 PM
"In all truth, its still quite possible that your guess, is probably only as good as any that my multiple imaginary friends or personalities, or I, might make on that complex condition".
Eats, roots, & leaves.. your "multiple imaginary friends or personalities"?
How strange that you should admit to having these multiple imaginary friends! No doubt they all have an opinion? ..surely that must drive you crazy! Indeed, where might they comment.. or make a guess?
.. you say you only have the one profile?
Posted by: decoratress at June 15, 2008 10:31 PM
Percherons are not at all good for dressage, they are usually not tall enough and because of their conformation cannot flex enough at the poll. Definitely not dressage horses, thoroughbred and warmbloods are the go or a cross. I have always preferred Thoroughbred myself, however a well bred Hosteiner is hard to beat. The german warmbloods are magnificent creatures, very agile and usually very quiet in temperament. Whilst this is wonderful in training sometimes they lose that little spark in the ring. Having worked in the Racehorse Industry for 23 years I have a soft spot for thoroughbreds and could always buy some pretty magnificent looking horses very cheaply if they didn't measure up on the track. A slow racehorse could become a very good eventer, which was what I was involved with. Dressage is a small part of the three day component. I only ride every now and then for pleasure and don't own any horses, just a walk with a friend on his property near the Margaret River.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 8:49 PM
What a bad tempered potty mouthed person you are WL. For someone who knows nothing about my life, yes did cut and paste the percheron information for TW, stated that. What are you in a rage about, I would suggest you get a grip. I am a person on a blog who suggested that someone get psychiatric help because to me she sounded like she needed it. You don't know me, know nothing about what I have done, where I work, absolutely nothing. I do not have to justify myself to you as I don't know you, don't ever wish to know you and from what I can see is you have not come up with one positive thing to try to help that little child if she is in crisis. I would suggest you take a look at yourself and try to control your anger a little, it could be disastrous for the people around you as well.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 8:40 PM
Lynath, "the look" as you call it was actually nothing of the sort, when l was clicking on the blog topic l wasn't paying attention and clicked your name instead.
Nothing sinister of that you can be assured.....................K
Posted by: auntykaz at June 15, 2008 8:29 PM
My university studies include 8 units of psychology, much more science and evidence based than I might have thought them to be, before starting to study in that area.
My experience in visiting psychologists were that the benefits gained were lasting, as I was mostly asked what did i feel, and when I related a point, I was asked how does that make me feel?
Posted by: virgil at June 15, 2008 8:11 PM
Gemsbling
Great to see you here tonight.
If more people had half your courage in the face of adversity, the world would be a much better place.
You are an insipration to me. When I face difficullt times in the future, I will think of you at this time.
Doug
Posted by: virgil at June 15, 2008 8:01 PM
Thank you ERAL for your kind words of wisdom.
You are absolutely correct I am being simplistic. That’s because I am a simple man and see things for what they are. Common sense often looks for the simpler answers first.
You are also correct, there are plenty of countries that don’t have the type of society changing television that I am describing. I do know that America has spread its influence too most, if not all, of the western world. I wouldn’t hesitate a guess at the number of populace involved there. As far as the Eastern world is concerned I don’t think I would have to delve to deeply to find some indiscretions with their cultural beliefs on society. Just look at the way Japan still thinks its acceptable to hunt for whales (only one example) or the way China treats their Tibetan brothers (one example). As far as North and South go, do they even have tv :). I do believe however that there are some Middle Eastern countries that would certainly not promote teenage rape, petty crime and infidelity as acceptable viewing. But who am I to throw stones.
I’m guessing, and I hate guessing, maybe the type of television I was describing only affects a few, maybe three billion people around the world.
As far as having to travel to a war zone in Africa for a change in pace and to getting back to human nature is concerned. I only need to look in my own back yard to see enough indigenous dysfunction, racism, and violence. I have never been to Africa and don’t understand the violence affecting those regions. Maybe if there were fifty million aboriginals in Australia we might think a little a little more positively about our indigenous brothers.
As far as my “caveman” comment was concerned I think you may have misunderstood my point. All I was trying to say was. If you only look at the tiniest little change for the improvement of society then at least your starting to think in the right direction. Who knows it may be the beginning of the ripple effect of throwing a small pebble into a big pond. Or as a great man once said, “from little things big things grow”.
I don’t want to go down the easy path of being cynical and use what little abilities I have for negative effect. I would much rather make an effort to be positive and promote a peaceful existence.
To all
Peace and happiness. Where is the love?
Ps. To ERAL
I hope I’m not twisting your words. After all they were your words.
Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 15, 2008 7:54 PM
Perth
You may well be onto something there!
I havent read the blogs much over the last few days but did a bit of catching up this morning.
For a first time effort, broken wings has controlled this blog for several days it seems.
I wouldn't have picked that for a captain thunderbox effort, but remember well his venture into the wold of the jolly roger.
Posted by: virgil at June 15, 2008 7:52 PM
Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 3:27 PM "She actually did state she was a psychologist and now the profile has been changed, she is now a health care professional with a degree."
Actually, she originally stated that she had (previously) studied psychology and was working as a nurse, whilst pursuing further health/nursing studies. Big difference! Maybe you should learn to read what is written, not what you perceive it to be.
Just because she has studied psychology does not make her able to resolve all of her own problems herself.
Many university students, in many fields of expertise, find themsleves studying psychology at some point - teachers also study psychology as part of their pre-service training. I know of a life coach who has 'studied' psychology, as well as a solicitor, just for some insight into the behaviours of the people they work with - and, of course, how to behave appropriately yourself, when working with these people.
You might like to look into some of the courses available - in your job at the 'coalface', I'm sure that you would most definitely benefit from having psychological resources at your disposal.
WL: female, 49-turning-50 soon, Bris, 2 boys, Cafe franchise owner (with 2 units of psychology electives under belt in my business managment studies), certainly not jealous of anyone who has such an easy life, and spend my time out and about while you are blogging away about things of which you know absolutely nothing. Oh, our Percherons can be seen at the Bris Ekka in June-hope you took note of your cut'n paste in that they are great for dressage.
Posted by: waterlily58 at June 15, 2008 7:37 PM
iaminperth
Gosh Perth, you sound so grumpy lately. Is everything alright Honey?
Your posts up until recently were always full of humour and made me laugh, but lately you sound so angry.
What's this? Rip the victim apart bizzo going on here.
Come on, a little more compassion would be more beneficial,
Give us something that will make the wounded feel better or comforted by?
Smile!
Peace and Love to all
xxx
Posted by: gemsnbling at June 15, 2008 6:03 PM
Could all you people in Perth stop glaring at me...friends and relatives of Iaminperth, are you?
I have already had "the look" from auntykaz last night...
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 15, 2008 5:53 PM
The profile hasn't changed . She states she majored in Psychology but that does not qualify her as a Psychologist.
Perhaps she/he is a student and using the blog for research..a lot of information can be gathered here quickly if required.
In any case the post made is still a usual scenario in the problem of Domestic violence.
Glad you find a bit of humour in my posts Iaminperth
I understand you see a problem, you see a solution, and you see it fixed and can't understand why it shouldn't happen that easily. It's a natural reaction of a decent person, which you are.
When humans are involved it is not always that straighforward and change can't be rushed- that is a basic lesson to be learned by anyone starting out to work in a Community setting. It is also a hard lesson, as most people who work in that area are kind and compassionate and joined up to "make a difference and help people" They get a very rude shock when they discover that their 'making a difference' and 'helping' is not always welcomed and they are told to mind their own business and go away(usually in far less polite terms)
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 15, 2008 5:47 PM
EE, I respect that your well educated ( but can you program your VCR ?), and if you genuinely are an informed student of the field - then you would also know that during its short history, the professors of psychology have changed its opinion on the vagueness of the mind-brain chemistry connection, at least more times than i have changed my underwear.
In all truth, its still quite possible that your guess, is probably only as good as any that my multiple imaginary friends or personalities, or I, might make on that complex condition.
Balance is the key to healthy moderation in all things - in words you might recognize - the "middle path".
I believe i have been balanced in my expressed opinions, BUT/AND I don't ask you to, nor feel compelled by any need to have you agree with it. (however I certainly don't like the sanctimonious attitudes of the some postings )
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 5:41 PM
Lynathdiahorrea June 15, 2008 2:15 PM
Chris, you are at it again babe. You have completely missed the point of what is the real issue here.
From one point of view welfare of the child is paramount, however there is no evidence that any abuse (apart from the public disclosure of allegations, which is an invasion of the kids rights, and by her mother no less) has occured to it.
What has occurred beyond doubt is the male partner has been slurred. If this persons profile is real her photograph can be recognised and from that a reasonable person who knew her, or of her, could infer some extremely serious and defamatory things about him.Nowhere does she say he has been CONVICTED of anything. The accusations may be grandstanding by this woman and no harm may have been done to her but harm to the mans reputation has happened.
BTW, the profile has been changed and the inference the writer is a 'psychologist' (whatever that really means- I have met psychologists who fringe practise and whose grip on reality is tenuous) has back slid.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 15, 2008 4:16 PM
Hi everyone,
I see poor brokenwings is still the hot topic around here!
From what I thought I read in her post, she was speaking in the past tense, not as if the abuse was still going on. She states she is divorced, after all.
I just thought the girl was having a really bad day (we all have them) and something had happened in her life to bring "everything back" in a terrible way.
I can remember in the first year or two after leaving my ex, small things would just trigger the most awful feelings.
I would been feeling fine, then just have a few terrible days where I would get really down, feel guilty about everything, and get really angry, depressed and teary. (I think it's called grief)
Then I would pick myself back up again and would feel good - until the next time!
Just her pseudonym 'brokenwings' indicates to me, that she is still feeling very "broken". Despite her bright and breezy profile.
On the day she wrote her post, she was having a real 'downer', maybe a mistake to let all out on here, but she is according to her profile only in her late 20s.
Maybe she was looking for a bit of support, maybe she just needed to rant (no matter how well you get on with your ex's family - you can only say so much to a mum about her son!), maybe she was just attention seeking.
To me, it didn't matter. She just sounded 'down' and needed someone to let her know, things can get better, but she will need to get some support and assistance.
The fact she has a psychology degree (according to her profile) means nothing to me. So what?
Even psychologists with years of "on the job" experience, have life crises. Psychologists have marital problems, get divorced, separate from long-term partners, suffer abuse, even commit suicide.
They are just Human Beings like the rest of us.
No one can be clinically objective about their own life, no matter what their training and experience. Someone with a degree may only have the knowledge, and little real experience.
Who would want to be with someone who was THAT clinical anyway!
As far as the Family Court and the Child Support Agency, are concerned, those of us with recent experience will tell you, nothing is straight forward or always as easy as it seems, unless you are lucky enough to have a really "nice" person as an ex!
And Child Welfare Services are so over-stretched that only the most dire cases even get investigated in SA, according to recent media reports.
According ot her profile, brokenwings is in her late 20s. At that age I hadn't even begun discovering my real self. I had little self-esteem and very little positive life experience.
If only I knew back then, what I know now!
How much wiser would I have been?
I think that would apply to all of us who write here on these blogs!
Posted by: amberlight58 at June 15, 2008 3:36 PM
She actually did state she was a psychologist and now the profile has been changed, she is now a health care professional with a degree. None of this makes a lot of sense and frankly I don't believe it is true. Also it is easy to attack anyone who has an opinion and without disclosing personal information the writer has no option to reply, or in my case wouldn't be bothered to. The constant references to my easy life just points to jealousy on your part, so maybe you just need to get over yourselves and get a life. I don't know if WL is male or F but from the venom and nonsense written would guess female. Lynath, your posts are so long and dreary and so full of inconsistencies they are laughable. I think the fish or the captain is having a bit of fun here.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 3:27 PM
i see a clash of egos on here
Posted by: cutesmile52 at June 15, 2008 3:20 PM
Hi ERAL, First sociopathy is not necessarily genetic. I do work in the field so do know this. Second, compassion is not about ignoring action and the term 'glib compassion' is an oxymoron... or maybe that is my interpretation as a Buddhist where compassion is deep, even when situations cannot be changed. Third, if my grandkids were being abused I would not hesitate to act for all the parties concerned, immediately and unquestioningly with the parent/s and with the stated intent of contacting child support and removing the child/children to my own home if possible. And seeking to help the offerender/s to deal with their own pain. Maybe that is one reason why it doesn't happen in my family, because my children do have family support in myself and their partners parents. Not everyone has this. There are some read horror stories out there and judging people by them helps no one. That is where compassion comes in, allowing yourself to feel it when the situation is something you can do little or nothing about. That's the facts of life when you meet people who are living in hell and try to find some small way to offer some small help. You can't change everythng and have to accept that fact of life.
Posted by: eleganteloquent at June 15, 2008 3:13 PM
Certainly was the same job in the same field except different company. I stand by my comments and you can sling as much rubbish as you wish and run around in circles. I believe doing something proactive and seeking medical intervention is something that is required for the person in question to be able to rationalise the situation she has found herself in. A psychiatrist, obviously with a referral would be a good start. If you don't like proactive action then that's your problem, I for one would not just standby as intervention would be required on behalf of the child.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 2:59 PM
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 15, 2008 2:15 PM
I've never claimed to be an expert on this topic, but please - whose being hysterical now ??? You like to twist peoples words don't you - "witch hunt" indeed - what conceit !
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 2:37 PM
iaminperth I have my doubts about you. The profiler in question does not state she is a psychologist for a start.
Secondly you state you work 'at the coalface" I am wondering what you mean as your advertised employment is Admin.
Your attitude displays very little understanding of these situations . Your cure all on all topics is the old stiff upper lip and pull yourself together and get over it routine..
People in this situation do not need to see a Psychiatrist unless they also have a diagnosed mental illness requiring medication..
They usually need some counselling from a Psychologist or other specialist Counsellor and a good GP.
The child will also be assessed, but not made a life long victim by having it instilled that she had an abusive parent. We don't know what the profiler defines as abuse anyway.
They definitely need support from the greater community.and a good friend is invaluable. Watching Dr Phil, reading similar stories in the Womens Weekly or joining online support groups or the local womens group are actually all very therapeutic for someone leaving these situations and needing to work through it all. They need someone to understand, to talk to and to listen. Seeing a Psychologist, even weekly ,does not fill in all the other hours of the week when support is needed. Those things are more useful than medicating to the eyeballs to numb the pain.Knowing others have been through the same thing and become happy again is a powerful motivator.
As to what has been suggested to help, there is no need, because if you read the post properly you will see she is talking about the past. She is already dealing with the situation.
For anyone else they can seek initial help via a GP or Hospital Emergency Dept. or the Local Community Health Centre or Local Council Social Worker or ring Dept of Human Services or Department Of Childrens Services if Children are involved.
It doesn't matter if the post is a hoax or not, it is a reality for lots of people who do need help and support.
EARL ..great witch burning post with hysterical accusations to fuel the guilty verdict. Once again blame the woman and condemn her. Where is your condemnation of the men who do the abusing? Oh that is right they are just naughty "bad boys" who can't control themselves and do it because the woman " asked for it"
Yes, there are a percentage of that stereotype involved in domestic abuse, but there is a very large percentage of" guy next, door pillar of the community" involved as well.
Anyone with any education, from any background ,with any socio economic situation, with any health and drug status can find themselves in this situation.
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 15, 2008 2:15 PM
I agree EE - however 'tough love' certainly has its place. Offering glib compassion, without correction isn't just self delusional, its also a form of corruption.
It would be a travesty to over simplify the solution to the disgusting things people do to each other, with a simple - "there there, you'll do better next time".
If you found out that your grandchild was being abused, and that your daughter through her actions was enabling the abuse - what would you say to her ??
We have a duty of care to children - they are the future we are creating.
Unfortunately, not many make the effort .
And, my understanding of sociopathic personalities is that it's a genetic trait (I may be wrong), hence not a learned behavior. So you could talk to them all you want...they would tell you whatever you wanted to hear- then do it again with a smile. In many ways its a genetic trait that would help a man survive most of the perils he might encounter in a harsh competitive world. At least just long enough to procreate, and hence pass on those genes to his offspring. Maybe, a female might even unwittingly search for those genes in the hope of creating offspring that has the same fearless personality !
The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind...
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 1:48 PM
Iaminperth, your self-righteous indignation refuses you to allow you to actually see my point - that whatever "near hysterics" or "fragile state of mind" brokenwings may be in at present, the kind of amateur psychology and tactless, pious lectures on parenting/relationship choices and skills given on this site will only add fuel to the already highly emotive state she is in.
You say that you work "in the coalface" with people in similar situations:
Would you give an alcoholic a bottle of booze? Would you give a man with lung cancer a packet of cigarettes? Would you give a person in "near hysterics" pious lectures and admonish them, expounding their faults, criticising choices, adding to their anguish? I know that I wouldn't.
But you, who are well-experienced in this field, professionally, would know that a great deal of tact, diplomacy, encouragement, empathy and constructive advice and a network of supportive, skilled and 'quaified' professionals and resources will best help people in this kind of situation.
So, point No 2, was that unless you actually know how to help this person, you are probably best not to add to a highly contentious situation. And that does not include snippets from Dr Phil, nor the No Idea rags that you source.
But thanks for giving me the info on those
"no brainers" you can list so easily. If I get bored during my dose of the flu and home renovations this week, I may indulge-I've worked full time all my life and I can't say that I've ever enjoyed the experience of gaining all of my worldly knowledge from the rags, tellie or google.
PS This job "in the coalface" - is this the same job you stated you were starting only last Monday?
Posted by: waterlily58 at June 15, 2008 1:09 PM
Yes, ERAL the pattern does continue, and the daughter has learned it in situ, and may well use similar strategies in adulthood because it is comforting, reminiscent of childhood no matter how bad but still comforting. The woman herself more than likely was a child like her own once. So we watch stuff that is hard and predictable, but does that help? The 'bad boys' also have reasons for what they do, intense intimacy avoidance, sociopathic using of others, probably also learnt early on. The circle does go on and on, and we all feel it - street crimes, crimes against self and property... relationships simply signify people's states of minds, including pain, despondency and inabilities to walk from destructive cycles. Offering help is hard, rescuing is not the answer, encouraging to look for professional support to break the cycle maybe is? Compassion can still be there, though, for the woman, her child, and even the 'bad boys', surely.
Posted by: eleganteloquent at June 15, 2008 12:41 PM
This can be hard a topic.there can be no friends if the ex is still in love with ur new partner but if nothing is involved an u become friends with the ex also, i dont see a problem. then theres the whole issue of if children are involved.This topic depends on your situaton
Posted by: petal27 at June 15, 2008 10:28 AM
ERAL 6.12am. Excellent post. Let's hope the cycle is broken now. For everyone's sake.
Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at June 15, 2008 10:16 AM
Yes ER&L unfortunately it is a pattern that can be repeated thru each generation. Some people choose to live in this heightened state of chaos living for the next outburst, such a shame for the children they don't stand a chance.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 10:16 AM
Extremely perceptive comments ERAL.
Posted by: istj54 at June 15, 2008 9:46 AM
Something odd about all this. Why when such a post is written, the woman has not checked into the site. Seems strange to me.
Also, her profile age says 29 yet the text says she is 27. Does that me this is perhaps someone who has been a member of the site for some time and has recently re-activated her profile yet not updated the text. Hmmmm.
If it all is true, and even if it isn't, let's hope she or others perhaps in this situation can gain some helpful advise in moving on in their life.
Jen.
Posted by: jenniferhi at June 15, 2008 9:35 AM
choosing not to condemn someone who faced a difficult situation does not mean blanket approval of what occurred. there are many factors which influence the decisions people make. surely further criticism serves no useful purpose.
Posted by: kisskat at June 15, 2008 8:10 AM
Sheesh - this topic has really taken on a life of its own!
BUT- i think most posts are missing the point - "whats been done, is done, and cannot be undone", no matter how right or wrong our thoughts and feelings on the topic may be.
What she should have, could have etc is pointlessly debated.
However, the futures of the mother and child, ( and the deadbeat father) are still to be written. Here lies some real gristle to the mill.
Firstly , i can't believe that the mother wasn't drug addicted herself. Either to alcohol, or to harder substances. The fact she didnt go to the police,and often, seems to suggest she was complicit...
Unfortunately, many young women, seem to be attracted to these fast talking, quick tempered 'bad boys', and continue to stay with them, after being abused, because of the thrill of their sexual tension, drug addiction, and also in the hope of turning their 'bastard' into a 'good guy'.
Its only usually only after all the parents,siblings and police have had to intervene,on many occasions, that the gal realises that "enough is enough- for now".
She doesn't want to lose all her support, after all.
BUT - To everyones horror, she returns again and again, until ultimately all her support from friends and family is used up , and at the point , her abuser has her utterly in his clutches.
Unfortunately, these women also don't seem to learn anything from their disaster. (especially if people around her only say - 'it was all his fault dear, your the victim"- think this is what the ATTACKERS(?) are trying to say. Of course - we all try to be sympathetic to innocent victim, but this is someone who was at first an accomplice, and only at some later point did they become a self imposed hostage. Their cries of lament may be sorrowful to our ears, but they are not without being self-pitying. So she has come here looking for support, that her real life wont give her anymore...)
In need of company and sex , she will eventually find another 'bad boy' to boyfriend ( for the same reasons as before), and unfortunately rather than being and improvement on the first, these men are usually much worse than the father ! The new guy certainly doesn't want to take care of some other blokes child, and is only there for sex, and money (for drugs). Often she tries to change him into the new "dad", and from then on, the shit truly hits the fan !
Many of these following relationships end horrendously as the violence escalates to new heights.
Now, to "true victim" of this whole story, the daughter, who having watched all the males (and female) behavior all her life will be patterned to seek out these very same men (!), another 'bad boy' just like her father, (because she still wants the love of her father) and the whole cycle begins anew !
Good luck Brokenwing, your daughter will need it.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 6:12 AM
Marcus................crap your post8.26pm
I can only presume the posts have been held up this long for my answer, point for point.
Your view as to them being any form of hysterical or accusing, I just read them as they where written, and did not judge them, I made my point on the other blog which has elicited no other comment.
After the hoo haa her post has caused do you blame her (seeing it was her first post) for running for cover.
As to the feel of how would I feel if you made that accusation about me with my grand daughter. Imagine how you would feel about one second after you had made it. and stuff the consequenses. you are presuming, that there is such a thing as a fair trial. The case you are refering to is a known fact not allowed in her trial that she has a history dating back to the age of 14 of such incidents, has always been afforded legal aid that has bludged on the tax payer and supported numerous legal eagles to become affluent. they do not forgo their rights they have more bloody rights than you and me mate. as to the rest of your bleeding heart twaddle about them not being able to provide for themselves consider the fact that they have never done that or have even thought of doing it. The judicial system effective and honest and fair and open, ha, go and talk to any member of the "Victim's of Crime" organisation if you want to get your ears chewed of for expressing those opinions
As always Cheers OG
Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 11:52 PM
Maybe those that posted not to your liking should have shut up and pretended they hadn't read it at all.........................K
Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 8:24 PM
Congratulations, auntykaz, the most intelligent words submitted to these blogs in quite a while!
Posted by: waterlily58 at June 14, 2008 10:59 PM
It seems you also have problem reading Waterlilly, Marcus and I also expressed concern. I believe Psychiatric help would be an immense help to get the mother back on track and able to face all these issues in a logical manner. Or do you find that offensive as well, rather the Womens Weekly instead.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:22 PM
And to add let me ask a question of all the sympathetic so called do gooders here. What have you suggested to help the situation, you have dribbed oh poor you, you have attacked anyone with positive input, therefore isolating the person further, you have tutt tutted and gone back to your little clothes dryer existence. Personally, the way it is going at the moment I have my doubts that this person is real at all. Normally weird profiles pop up with characters from overseas, but this one is not, they are all highly educated as this one is supposedly. She is a psychologist, I don't think so, she would be deregistered for this rant. I am leaning at the moment to somebody sitting back and having a good laugh.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:17 PM
Waterlily, Your accusations and assumptions about me are so off the mark to be laughable. However, I will not justify myself to someone who comes out with such rot as I work in that area and have done for many many years. Unlike you I do not talk to 'friends' or watch Dr. Phil or read No Idea, I work at the coalface.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:08 PM
Marcus, well said on all points..................K
Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 9:06 PM
Ogre
I assume you are referring to my comments regarding the woman who appeared here making a range of semi hysterical claims and accusations about goings on in her life.
It all sounds plausibly tragic and has certainly got the worthies advising and wringing their hands and self appointed defenders like yourself ready to round up a lynch party. It could all be complete bullshit from a pathological liar and attention seeker. Fact is you and I know zero about the veracity of her claims. This person hasn't logged on since thursday last and certainly isn't engaged in any discussion.
She may have an axe to grind against her partner and as we all know accusations of child abuse engender very strong reactions. How would you feel if I said, in front of 20 people, someone told me you had interfered with your grandaughter?
The principle that needs to operate is an investigation based on presumption of innocence and a fair trial and hearing and that includes for the woman accused of causing the death. If there are medical issues, including addiction to alchohol or drugs, treatment and advice should be offered. Legal aid/representation is vitally important in cases like these, just because someone is an accused does not mean they forgoe their rights. Adherence to principles like these contribute to our relatively cohesive society and great nationhood. Care for those who for whatever reason cannot provide for themselves is a hallmark of social compassion and strength, not weakness. That said we have a judicial system that from what I can see is quite effective.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 14, 2008 8:26 PM
Waterlily, l would think that the women and men here who have commented would do so with possibly the best of intentions in regards to a child who was being abused, verbally, emotionally and physically, and by the way they are Brokenwings words in her original post.
Very emotive words they are, would you rather that they were ignored by the people here that read them?
Of course the subject matter was going to elicit the responses that it. Maybe those that posted not to your liking should have shut up and pretended they hadn't read it at all.........................K
Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 8:24 PM
Malsie, Posted by: malsie at June 14, 2008 1:46 PMamazing story of the strength you found within yourself for your child.
Iaminperth, it is obvious that you have never been in this situation. I have, however, seen a friend go through similar. While your words about police, arrests, child support etc all sound good, even impressively simplistic, you are way off track on how much paperwork and red tape, how many legal loopholes, investigation, negotiation, mediation, counselling, time, money, law courts, physicial and emotional assessment of your children, interrogation of your children, and continued abuse and emotional chaos that these people go through.
Did you Google your family law information, like you do your dogs and horses? If you had, you may have found some insightful facts and statistics that just might have knocked you off your high horse.
Posted by: waterlily58 at June 14, 2008 7:10 PM
In determining custody and access arrangements a criminal history is taken into account as to whether the person has full access or supervised access.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 7:07 PM
Lynath,
I have to disagree, not fear or threats but children knew the reality of their own actions and were held responsible for them, tell me that is the case today,even to adults, particularly the 33 year old woman up here that caused to death of a 83 year old woman to get money to buy drugs and now blames the drugs for her action and should not be sent to prison "diminished responsibility" crap, a waste of space and oxygen plus tax payers money, (legal aid granted) lets get real.
OG
Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 7:05 PM
Think back people, to when your relationship first hit the dust.
What kind of emotional state were you in? did you have friends and/or family to thrash things out with? Did you rant and rave and vent and hurl abuse? Did you cry, have a few too many to drink, tear up photos or anything else that helped you try to ease the hurts, resolve issues for yourself and get your life back on track?
I know I did. I went through phases of just having to thrash all of the issues out for myself - it was part of getting my act together and moving on.
For whatever reason, brokenwings chose this site to have a vent, or three. Maybe not the most appropriate of places to do so, but, if you think about it, she is obviously going through all of the separation trauma that we have all felt, experienced, wallowed in, and overcome (hopefully) to be who we are now - hopefully, mature minded and responsible adults, ready to move onwards and upwards in life.
So, far, despite several posts expressing concern for the situation, only timewarp has had the gumption to offer any sound advice - to go the the free women's legal centre (thanks, tw, didn't know that existed, but may come in handy one day).
Come on, people, think about it. If broken wings is in half as fragile a state as her posts indicate, then she needs support - not accusations, not condemnation, not insistance that she attend counselling, and not derision or insulting comments on her fields of study or professional expertise. She also doesn't need to hear 'what I would have done" or "how I have raised my children" - she probably has more than enough of that racing around inside of her head and her heart anyway. Comments such as I have read re this issue, last night and this evening, lay only more blame and hurt on someone who obviously has enough of her own (and her ex's) to deal with at the moment.
Even the most scholarly or professional or famous etc of people have been known to need support through the traumatic times in their lives. So, might I suggest, in all fairness, that unless you have something constructive to say, keep your comments to yourself. You are only fuelling a highly emotive situation. I know I would not like to be responsible for adding to this person's fragile state at this point in time.
Posted by: waterlily58 at June 14, 2008 6:57 PM
Marcus @ 4.21 pm.
That is precisely in your post what I rail against, bleeding hearts are more interested in the rights of the offender that the victims, if they are that offended to be named and shamed let them go to court and stand the scrutiny of public opinion. We have a local paper that used to name the offenders of break-ins, thefts and assaults. The offended squeal that went up from the legal parasites that threatend their "bread an butter" was such that he had to desist, threatened not from the ferals but the legal proffesion. Do the crime do the time, now is a joke. Bloody political correctness gone crazy.
OG
Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 6:55 PM
iaminperth, having a husband arrested on a criminal charge has got no relation to family court matters.
Even if he was arrested and charged he would probably not be locked up for more than a few hours at most. What would the penalty be even if convicted? A good lawyer could get him off most likely.
If she then decided to go to the Family Court for property settlement there can be a long wait before a hearing and any custody issues are decided.
It costs money to go for a property settlement and chances are the settlement is half of nothing if there are drugs and alcohol involved...hardly worth it.
As it stands it appears she has the childs extended family on the fathers side admirably continuing to stand by them.
Not in the best interests to jeapoardise that by starting court cases that aren't going to solve anything but may lose a lot and make life worse for the child.
I am presuming the child is 10 or under brokenwing is 29 and said she married her childhood sweetheart.
If you read the post it seems apparentt that Brokenwing is talking about the past, but her use of past and present tense could lead a reader to believe she is still in the situation.eg "he bashes me for years, he cheats on me for years, he bashes my daughter" really meant "he bashed me he bashed my daughter he cheated on me"
She is saying clearly that she stood by him through thick and thin endured violence and abuse for years, left him when he hit her daughter and is appalled that he still had the nerve to ask to be her friend and has finally escaped the situation and seen him for what he is.
auntykaz you have taken my words out of context...add on "There is pressure from many areas to maintain marriages for the sake of the family." I am not advocating staying with a violent alcoholic or any alcoholic I am just saying that there are pressures even today to stay together. I am saying though that if you love someone you will usually not give up on them too soon when things are in a down phase as I am sure you would know all about.
Marcus the chances of identity are slim and the mention of the child is not detailed nor inappropriate in the context of the story. We are not in a court case here nor bound by professional standards of confidentiality as in a workplace,and because of the anonymous nature of the blog we cannot be sure who or what is real, so we might as well discuss the important issues raised.
If you censor one thing then you will have to censor everything. How many of us here have used real stories and situations we have been in to blog. Too much political correctness and fear of retribution will leave us to talk about the weather. Many people have mentioned their children and ex partners and they could be potentially identified.It is up to the individual to decide what they will or won't say and most people do tell the truth. I am tired of living in a "nanny state" which is getting worse every day and am beginning to fear the end of freedom of speech.
OG fear and threats are no way to run a relationship. The best thing to happen was the introduction of the single mothers pension and equal pay for equal work. Prior to that women had little choice
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 6:38 PM
I agree Amber with everything you say but unfortunately that is the system we live under at the moment and it is there to protect people. I am sure for every failure there are a lot of successes and a lot of things that people can do involving police and protection agencies if there is trouble. It is when it becomes isolated and not presented to the relevant agencies where the problems start.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 5:08 PM
BTW, I was in no way inferring that children are only abused by men!
If anyone thought I was, no definitely not!
Posted by: amberlight58 at June 14, 2008 4:49 PM
Lynath @ 3.36 pm.
In this day and age we would be thrown in jail, then, the one bashing or threat of one was enough, it empowered the woman because she knew she did not have to put up with the abuse and the man knew retribution would be swift and harder. Incidents of this type of abuse used to make headlines in the paper then, now it hardly makes a mention unless it is a dull news day. Having lived through both the periods you can have your "enlightened" modern times. Give me the days when we cared and dared to rectify injustice.
Cheers OG
Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 4:39 PM
Unfortunately OG a smack on the bum, in our era, now could mean catapaulting a child into a wall head first. I can understand what you are saying, but who is there to gauge the level of the smack and how often from irresponsible parents.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 4:36 PM
So then Alcoholism, for instance, is a disease. Mental illness is a disease. What sort of person would we be if we abandoned our sick partner? What sort of commitment is there if you leave at the first sign of 'for worse"? There is pressure from many areas to maintain marriages for the sake of the family.Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 3:36 PM
Sorry Lynath, but really have to dispute this. Living with an alcoholic is not a pleasant way to live your life, speaking from experience. If the alcoholic does not want change as in to not be an alcoholic or indeed get better, is the right thing to do to stay with him ?? For better or for worse notwithstanding, subjecting my family to living with an alcoholic father was not an option.
Alcoholism as an illness affects not only the alcoholic but the entire family. I would not want my kids to be subject to that.
Their father chose to drink himself stupid, but that does not mean they had to be witness to it.......................K
Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 4:33 PM
Umm Perth,
Not necessarily true. Just look at the recent case of the little 3 yo boy murdered by his father at Coober Pedy in SA.
Last year I attended a "Kids Are First" course run through Anglicare as part of the Family Relationship Centres (which are the precurser for the Family Court). I was absolutely shocked by some of other participant's stories.
A child has to be old enough and feel safe enough to be able to verbalise abuse, unless there are visible marks.
The Family Court does get it wrong.
Quite often.
And as far as the Child Support Agency is concerned. I think that its principle idea is right, but it assumes all parents are basically decent people.
If you have an unstable violent partner and he receives that Child Support Assessment, I believe it greatly increases the risk of harm to the ex-partner and the children.
Posted by: amberlight58 at June 14, 2008 4:31 PM
thelynathdiary June 14, 2008 3:36 PM
Chris, my point is that the woman who has told her story here has made some serious allegations as well as discussed aspects of a minor's personal life. She is also visible and identifiable by her appearance, and presumably contactable, albeit indirectly, because she is advertising for male friends.
Her daughter's identity is hardly protected, nor is her spouses who deserves the presumption of innocence too.
I think the whole situation is fraught with issues and I am suprised that the post was allowed and discussion has continued about what may be a live situation.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 14, 2008 4:21 PM
There is not anonymity in place with a photograph visible. Anyone can look at the photo and know who the woman is and then in turn know who the husband was and know who the child is.
There is no anonymity here at all, it is a public forum. If what she is saying is not true she is leaving herself open to serious legal action and that will affect the child. If what she is saying is true anything could happen. There is no anonymity.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 4:11 PM
reading these blogs is a much better way of getting to know someone than simply reading their profile. true colours certainly shine through in the heat of the moment.
as for the topic of remaining friends...it all depends on the definition of "friends". if you have children together then it is imperitive that you at least remain on good terms.
Posted by: kisskat at June 14, 2008 3:59 PM
Perth,
Your perogative to rear your children your way, my three were bought up with a known discipline, cross your mother and you had dad to deal with, their children are brought up under the same rules and so until the eldest grandchild used the "I have rights" thing, taught to her at school by a person who should not have been left out of her femminist cage, far less teach children her private philosophy, being all of 7 years older than them. If someone laid a hand on mine they would have felt the full weight of me, but against this person I was powerless as she had the full weight of the law on her side, her abuse was much worse and long lasting than a smack on the bum from her dad.
OG.
Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 3:58 PM
Lynath, what a load of garbage. If she had called the police she would have had him arrested. The family court is not so silly to award custody to an abusive father and how do you know how old the child is. Same with the child support, go to the support agency, it's denying the rights of the child to not do otherwise. Wallowing in self pity is not the way to protect a child.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 3:39 PM
Marcus, I do believe you are genuinely concerned but there is anonymity in place no names have been used.
To remove the post and discussion is to once again sweep it under the table when it is a subject that should be talked about. What better place than a relationship site blog? If this situation was more out in the open then perhaps people would not feel the shame or stigma often attached and this would then allow them to seek help sooner...or even better, recognise the signs before it gets out of hand and to know they are not alone.
What people may not realise is that the abusers themselves also need help. They are not all violent monsters to start with. I don't think anyone knowingly gets into a realtionship with someone who is abusive on the first date.Something has happened to them as well to cause their reaction to whatever the stress is or cause of feelings of inadequacy. That is not an excuse, but an explanation.
This can be considered a family problem not just that of the individual abuser.
Not everyone can do as Malsie did and just leave immediately, although one child makes it easier than someone with more.
Abuse does not always start out as dramatically and as early as Malsie's. It may be years of emotional abuse before any sign of physical occurs.
What is the ideal in out society? Happy couples married with children/ Marriage ceremonies instill the "for better or worse" "in sickness and in health"
So then Alcoholism, for instance, is a disease. Mental illness is a disease. What sort of person would we be if we abandoned our sick partner? What sort of commitment is there if you leave at the first sign of 'for worse"? There is pressure from many areas to maintain marriages for the sake of the family.
The emotional abuse may also start slowly. It may be minor which at first may cause a fight between the couple followed by a 'make up' and perhaps long times in between.
Meanwhile children arrive and a life is lived and further and further entwined.
When more abuse happens it is often put down as 'stress' or "tiredness" and the abuser is often sorry(maybe genuinely)
Would you abandon an otherwise happy and stable enough relationship and a whole lifestyle because of one incident that you can't really define as abuse? Not usually.
And so it goes on, but the abuse is becoming more frequent.
The person being abused is steadily having their self esteem eroded. The person is confused...perhaps the abuser is also saying nice things as well. Therefore they think " I must be imagining the abuse" or " I am not at all like those silly women who stay with an abuser. But yet I feel so bad."
They try harder to please the partner and walk around on eggshells.
If drugs or alcohol and mental illness become factors then there is a big chance that physical abuse will enter the picture. Again it may start with one incident followed by a honeymoon period and the abuser declaring love and sorrow. Hard not forgive especially if their are children. Who wants to break up a home?
If the problems of the abuser are such that they need to control completely to make themselves feel adequate then other issues such as cutting off from family and denying access to money will occur.
By this time the person being abused in enmeshed in a life with the abuser and is often ashamed to tell anyone what is happening because it still does not fit the picture of the dramatic violent wife bashing abuser portrayed in movies, or they can't believe that this is actually abuse and not just how things are.
"Other parents yell at their kids don't they?"
"Other wives tell stories about their husbands comments and demands" It must be okay .
Some people go through life like this and nothing more comes of it and they settle into the roles.
Others react when the abuse escalates into physical violence and threats.
Others have been so beaten down by the abuse and have lost so much control in their lives that they have begun to believe that the attention from the abuse is love and they will state they love the abusers.
Others have been beaten down mentally and are paralysed by fear of the disturbed violent threatening person they live with.
OG I know those stories of police and other men teaching the wife bashers a lesson But punishing one bashing with another doesn't make sense and if anything probably made life worse for the beaten wife. Men often bash someone weaker because of feelings of inadequacy..imagine the rage after being humiliated like that.
The thing is as a society if we want to do something then we have to put the money into long term solutions not just short term bandaids. Safe ,affordable housing and long term support to start a new life is required.
It is no use telling peole to leave, when there is nowhere to go with a few kids, no job skills and no money and often no family support. No one should be morally superior when they can't offer a viable solution that is available right now.
Most mothers do want to protect their children and that is why they are sometimes willing to put up with domestic violence...to maintain a home for the children and because of absolute terror of being separated from them if they tell anyone what is happening and knowing they can't support their children financially.
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 3:36 PM
I have brought my children up with the knowledge that no-one has the right to touch you without your permission. I do not believe in smacking, it is assault in my opinion and leads to violent adults. Both my kids are successful and happy, they both work hard to achieve their goals and have excellent negotiation skills in the event they are needed. If anyone had laid a hand on either of my kids they would have felt the full weight of the law.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 3:21 PM
I agree Marcus and wondered that myself. Unless the site has contacted the authorities themselves without our knowing. We are talking about child abuse here and no matter what the soap opera psychologists offer in way of support, it is still child abuse and the problem is not being addressed. Also this woman is still contemplating being friends with the ex and what terrible ramifications that could have on the child. In my opinion whether this child is with the mother and father or mother alone she is still in danger. If the mother is making this up for attention, the child is in danger.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 3:07 PM
Many years ago (30), and on another galaxy... when the father of my child first hit me and I was lying on the floor stunned that that had happened, a little voice in my head whispered "you deserve it." I thought that was weird, because I didn't come from a violent family, but definitely emotionally abusive. So I thought, "Oh, that must be so," and I actually stayed with him, because in my heart I did believe I deserved it, I was worthless.
However, the day I came into the room and saw him shaking our baby when she wouldn't stop crying, that was the end of our relationship there and then. I figured if I was damaged enough to believe I didn't deserve better, so be it, but I wasn't going to subject my child to it.
However, this is no judgement on anyone else's actions, as I agree things are not clear cut in life, and there is most definitely a degradation of the spirit that occurs in long-term abuse, frequently rendering the victim seemingly incapable of action (in much the same way as amber I think very eloquently described it).
There is that, and also the odd unhealthy ties that sometimes bind us to another, as I think istj described as some kind of "addiction". Either way, not as simple as some may like to think.
I don't recognise myself as the same person I was at 20 and have never repeated that pattern in my life, and nor will I now, I am positive. But I managed to get out of it much easier than some, and I wish anyone well in finding the inner strength to get out of any abusive relationships, and stay out.
Posted by: malsie at June 14, 2008 1:46 PM
Lynath@12.03.
All your points are valid as are all the ones opposing ones, what is wrong is a society that ties the hands of the people who can do something quickly and positively. Back when, if these men acted like that the men relatives (or even neighbours) would go and sort it out with or without violence, it was well known that a bloke that punched up a woman did not like being punched up himself, the police often responded the same way without any recourse back to them. Now even the threat of violence comes back against the person trying to protect the weak. I do not blame the weak or abused but a society that has become so weak itself as regards fitting punishment for the offenders, but would rather form another committee to discuss and make a report 12 months down the track and use valuable resources instead of spending them on something positive.
Cheers OG
Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 1:25 PM
my ex thinks he just a good friend that he can turn up anytime, stay for days on end...we have been seperated for about 6 months and i want to be free to have friends for a coffee or just free to talk on the phone!...but he doesnt seem to want to move on even though ive made it very clear to him for the past 6 months and more that we are seperated and it is well and truly over...ive told him i want to move on with my life and ive been travelling for pleasure constantly by myself and having a lot of fun on my overseas trips visiting friends and family...but when i get home its the same thing...any ideas on how i can change this situation...p.s. im thinking of moving to another state...
Posted by: cutesmile52 at June 14, 2008 1:22 PM
I'm not sure why RSVP has allowed Brokenwing's 2 venting and probably cry-for-help posts to be put up. As has been suggested she probably needs to speek in confidence to the correct professionals.
If the unfortunate story is true it is excruciating and unfortunate and concerns a child and some serious allegations.
Offering advice is one thing but blog counselling is another. Because there may be a kid involved who could quite readily be identified and perhaps accessed it is completely unprofessional. The other side of the coin is that her abuse allegations are unsubstantiated and could already have lead to the man putatively involved being identified.
This is particularly serious regardless of the truth or other wise.
I would suggest the whole series of posts should be removed immediately.
Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 14, 2008 1:12 PM
Some of you have said that unless we have been in a situation involving violence towards a child, we do not know how we would react, but quite truthfully as a mother of two l know exactly how l would react. it would not be to stay, of that l have no doubt at all.
The bond between a mother and child (and this is MY experience) is an all encompassing one. For many years l put my life secondary to theirs, as they were and still are very important in my life. Their emotional and physical well being was paramount to me. That they chose to stay with me and not go with their alcoholic
father is a testament to the relationship that we have.
They have grown into adults who are happy, respectful, courteous and employed in careers that will take them as far as they want to go. Above all else, they are happy.
I defy any one to tell ME that l would not have acted were they abused physically by their father....................K
Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 12:40 PM
istj, this is the childs father not some random boyfriend.
You are saying that the childs father had no responsibility for his own actions...it is all Brokenwings fault
If Brokenwing had left him and gone through the process of the Family Law Court, this man would have had shared custody or access to the child. Who would protect her then?
Do you not think that Brokenwing does not feel excruciating anguish and pain everyday at the thought of her child being hurt emotionally and physically? It will haunt her forever, how much depends on her getting help for herself and her child, to allow both of them to come to terms with what happened and recover as much as possible.
The child is still young enough to have a great recovery and very happy life.
Compounding her distress with more blame and abuse is likely to send her into a severe depression.She is a victim, like her child is.
What seems straight forward and simple to you, was not the reality that Brokenwings found herself in after long term abuse.
Where will the child be without a functioning mother? With the father?
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 12:33 PM
I can empathise, Amberlight...but not fully understand...however, I will never try to understand how a mother can go back to a house in which her children were abused. As you said the effects are on-going and life destroying. I see that as a teacher. It is the damaged children I deal with and most of the time the women return to the men over and over when there is no threat at all involved. It seems like an addiction...but not one I choose to understand. You do not have to say you are sorry. We are all entitled to have our own opinions and should be respected for that and not have cheap pot-shots about not being compassionate because they differ. That is abuse too...or bullying behaviour.
Posted by: istj54 at June 14, 2008 12:23 PM
roots&leaves at 4:30am posted
"Posted by: thelynathdiary at 10:52 PM:
istj and iaminperth, both of you lack compassion and the sort of understanding and insight that women of your ages should have.
What crap !
Reality bites."
Was it biting you just then, eh? And you were just passing on the compliment?
Posted by: timewarp1 at June 14, 2008 12:06 PM
iaminperth you are one of those people who read the papers or listen to the news and state "something should be done" or "They should do something" before going back to your pleasant life.
Firstly , who are 'they' that 'should be doing something' and what exactly is the 'something' ? "The Government of course"do I hear you say?
Which part of "the government" where, how and who are they with all these powers to fix everything?
These situations do not happen overnight.
It is not a simple case of a single isolated incident with a simple solution.
By the time this situation reached this point it was very ,very complicated for all involved.
According to the post of Brokenwing she asked him to live elsewhere. That was a brave step in itself given what her reality was. And he did leave so she did take appropriate steps to protect her child.
I presume you think that "taking action" would have been to take the child and leave or to call in Childrens Services or the Police who would have called in the Services.
In your world that is the "something".
What you fail to undestand is the consequences of taking either of those actions.
Without knowing her circumstances, I suggest that neither of those actions would have benefited the child or Brokenwing.
If she left where would she go? How do you know she has a family that could help long term? A womens shelter? For a couple days or weeks if there is a place available at all. Then where to? Public housing has a 10 year waiting list in some cities.
Then what? No money, and living on the streets in Winter with a child? Friends couches until they tire of you?
Keeping the child with a roof over it's head and in a stable environment appears the better option to me considering the father had left.
What about calling 'the authorities"? Again would they respond. They might although it could take some time. Then they might send out a 21 year newly qualified case worker with no life experience( they have difficulty retaining experiences staff due to burnout.
What if they became overzealous(no life experience remember) and they remove the child to a home or possible foster home.
Who would that benefit? You would have a child feeling terrified, abandoned and punished and a distraught mother.
Callthe police and have him charged? Possible..but it will be a low priority case and could drag on and who is going ot pay fees and costs. and he will get a rap on the knuckles.
Better to keep the child with the mother.
brokenwing your child is young enough to come through this without the dramatic lifelong emotional scars predcited by istj if it is handled well.
Do not make the child a lifelong victim, by making this define her forever.
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 12:03 PM
Sorry istj, perth, eral,kaz and others,
You can believe what you like, but until you are in such a situation you have no idea how you would react.
Yes, in a situation where it's a "one off", it would be easier to deal with and you would take action quickly.
The trouble is for most women in this situation, is that domestic violence is an insidious thing that you live with for many years.
If you talk to people who have worked with domestic violence survivors, they wil tell you these women have been so "beaten 'down" psychologically over the years, it is almost impossible for them to think in any kind of rational manner.
When your life is ruled by fear, you are "on edge" all the time, you may have been told since you were a child you are worthless (and you believe it), you are made to feel responsible for your partner's anger and violence for years ("I wouldn't hit you/scream at you if you gave me more sex... were a better wife.... weren't such a bitch..."), how could you think and behave in the same way as someone who has never been exposed to this?
It is easy to stand back and pass judgement on someone else, but you have no idea, believe me.
Until you have experienced this situation yourself, or have a sister, child, parent or close friend living with ongoing psychological and/or physical abuse, you could never understand.
Of course, after a woman finally leaves, and she has had time to think, she realises just how crazy all this seems. She then feels guilty for ever allowing herself to be so degraded. If she has children, who suffered with her, she lives with that guilt as well.
As far as intervention is concerned, my sister was married to a psychologically and at times, physically abusive man for years. She finally left him around 4 years ago, but she still helps him out (he can't cope without her apparently)
Her daughter has been terribly psychologically abused by her father, I have spoken to my sister many times over the years, but I just couldn't get through to her.
She lives in central NSW, and a local person reported her husband to DOCS. DOCS did investigate, and despite the fact that my sister has taken her daughter to a psychologist on a number of occasions for her behaviour (a mandated notifier?), DOCS decided the case wan't that important as they have children who are in imminent physical danger, not just psychological danger.
My niece who has always been blamed by her father for her parents' marital problems, was then ostracised by her father, because "she must have said something to someone", so her life has been made doubley harder.
If DOCS had told my sister that they were concerned about the abuse, I know she would have left him sooner. But they didn't and so she doesn't seem to think it was so bad.
I am very concerned for my niece, she is many years younger emotionally than she should be for a 13 year old, but I can do nothing. I am 1200 kms away, I can't even be there to support her.
Not always as straight forward and easy as it should be, when you are in the real world.
And BTW, there are also men who live in abusive relationships, too. But few would be willing to admit it! If women get ostracised, by other women, what hope does an abused bloke have in our "blokey" country!
Posted by: amberlight58 at June 14, 2008 11:50 AM
Just because I defend an innocent child and not her mother who was too busy, being such a good friend to her father, to protect her at all costs...I see too many of these mothers who seemingly can't be without a man at the expense of their children's lives and emotional, intellectual development.
It is wonderful that you can all gather around and support this woman...but what if he had killed the child? What would you be saying then?
Posted by: istj54 at June 14, 2008 11:27 AM
Here’s an inspiring thought for the day, if anyone needs one:
the beauty of a woman:
http://www.inspiringthots.net/movie/beauty-tips.php.
Posted by: riversong01 at June 14, 2008 10:25 AM
Sweetheartsearch, your profile looks great. If you're getting lote of kisses and not the follow-up emails, well, that's just the way it is in here - don't take it personally :)
Perhaps it's something to do with too many choices and people just shooting off kisses all over the place without much thought or follow through. Or maybe they don't have stamps and are hopeful you'll foot the bill? :)
Re the topic of heated input: there are many reasons why it's not always easy to do what one should. As Lynth said, a little compassion doesn't go astray, and as kisskat said, vicious responses are uncalled for, especially at someone who's obviously already suffered enough pain.
Yeah, reality bites and unkind people are a reality, both out there and in here. Seems the world is suffering from global cooling (of people's hearts) as well as global warming :) I prefer to make my reality a bit more kind. It's chilly enough this morning!
Posted by: riversong01 at June 14, 2008 10:15 AM
Like kisskat I have been staggered by the vicious attacks launched against her.
I'm sure she will regret probably for ever that her child was endangered so greatly and that she allowed the abuse to continue.
Can YOU ATTACKERS truthfully say that you would not have reacted similarly...you can't, because you have not been in precisely the same set of circumstances have you!
Give the girl a go..a hand-up;NOT a kick in the teeth yet again.
Hang in there Brokenwing and best wishes for recovering from such trauma.
Posted by: kurli at June 14, 2008 10:15 AM
Sitting around goo gooing people and doing nothing pro-active never helps any situation, in my opinion, look what happens and is still happening to children all over the world and particularly Australia at the moment. You only have to read the newspapers at the moment. To digress: I am often quite shocked and staggered at the way that people talk to each other when they are in a relationship and, according to them very happy. I hear foul language being shot out in an abusive manner, threats being made and this seems to be the norm. If anyone I was involved with spoke to me like that he would be told very calmly it was not acceptable and if it happened again out the door, thank you. I can't quite understand the level of acceptance in society today of this violent behaviour.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:40 AM
I think it is imperative to have a good working relationship with your ex where children are involved. I stress working relationship where each partner is treated with respect and therefore set a good example for the children. To go further my mother in law and I were good friends until the day she died as she is my childrens grandmother. We all attended her funeral and were welcomed by all the other relatives and have kept in touch over the years. I tend to believe a good strong family unit is extremely important for children and just because you have an ex partners you certainly don't need to have ex manners.
Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:34 AM
Back to the blog topic: "can you stay friends with your ex?" Brokenwings says NO. Others seem to agree with her (even if they think she should have left earlier).
What do others in singlesville think?
I agree with staying on civil terms, particularly if there are kids involved. However men with lingering friendships with ex girlfriends is a big turn-off for me. Not that I have any problem with them having friends of either sex. I am not a jealous person. But from what I see (on the whole though there may be rare exceptions) ex-girlfriends are different to normal friendships.
Once people have been intimate, it's an easy thing to slip into again if circumstances arise. From my experience, the boundary between men keeping ex girlfriends as "just friends" and FBTs is a very thin line indeed! Unresolved emotional attachments to an ex girlfriend makes it difficult for a man to move on and free himself up for loving someone new. (That's assuming they have that intention, which may not necessarily be the case!)
I've lost a couple of good (men) friends once they got into serious relationships. But that's OK - I could perfectly well understand the new woman's view. It was appropriate for me to step aside and let her share the man's emotional territority, as well as time and energy.
I don't think it's approriate for men and women to stay "close friends" with their exs - they need to make room for the new. Though I believe they should (try to, if they can) keep things kind and civil between them, especially if there are kids involved.
Posted by: riversong01 at June 14, 2008 8:49 AM
i am staggered by the vicious responses of some of the women on this blog! brokenwings obviously has & still is suffering from this experience, and im sure she already suffers from guilt for the choices she made in the past & the impact that may have on her child.
a little bit of compassion and a lot less judgment wouldnt go astray.
Posted by: kisskat at June 14, 2008 8:20 AM
Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 13, 2008 10:52 PM
istj and iaminperth, both of you lack compassion and the sort of understanding and insight that women of your ages should have.
What crap !
Reality bites.
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 14, 2008 4:30 AM
Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 13, 2008 3:25 AM
Your being simplistic .
There are plenty of countries in the world that don't have television of the sort your describing .
Try the African war-zones for a change of pace, if you want to get back to oldschool 'human nature'...
Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 14, 2008 2:55 AM
Only one word of advice for brokenwings...
Please, please, please don't tell that story in such detail to a guy on a date. It will be a real turn off. You are obviously very hurt and rightfully so, however you don't want to come across bitter or with too much undealt with baggage... Be cautious with what you share. I am naturally very open and transparent and have had to learn over the years that sometimes you can reveal too much to quickly or if ever at all!. There are s
I agree istj54 - I don't think there are as many players/users on this site as is often claimed to be. As I said I have wonderful experiences. It's all a matter of getting to know people. Emaiing, chat lines, phone, heaps of all that before even meeting. Works for me. And you know the ones who are not prepared to do that perhaps is a bit telling. And also I have found the ones I didn't get to know that way before meeting, it never seemed to gel much at all.
Oh, I know a lot of you will say why waste time with all the chat and email ping pong. Just meet, see if there is a 'click,' and go from there. I know it works for lots of people. But just in my experience, the real 'clicks' with guys, be it friendship or more, there has always been a lot of communication before even meeting. I know a lot of guys have problems with the whole computer thing and the chat lines are simply a no-go, but there is still the phone, and lots and lots of phone talk will give you a bit of knowing as to the real them. Well I think anyway. Perhaps Lynda you might like to let me know what you think about what I am saying, given your profession.
Another thing - and I know they are Dr. Philisms, but they are definitely true - what we fear we attract, or what we focus our attention on we attract. If we go into something only expecting another let down, another player, another hurt, well guess what, that's what we will get. This is why our profiles should be so carefully written. What exactly are we asking for? Or what exactly are we focussing on in our mind as we go about all this dating. That of course is why we have to be over our previous relationship before getting back into a partner search again. If we keep focussing on the anger, hurt, etc. we will attract another into our life quite likely to do the same.
Ambers advise to Broken Wings was so right, she is nowhere near ready to be looking for someone else yet. The same old pattern will simply present itself.
Better go - cooking porridge for the tribe this morning.
Have a great day all.
Jen
Posted by: jenniferhi at June 17, 2008 7:52 AM