RSVP Blog

I agree istj54 - I don't think there are as many players/users on this site as is often claimed to be. As I said I have wonderful experiences. It's all a matter of getting to know people. Emaiing, chat lines, phone, heaps of all that before even meeting. Works for me. And you know the ones who are not prepared to do that perhaps is a bit telling. And also I have found the ones I didn't get to know that way before meeting, it never seemed to gel much at all.

Oh, I know a lot of you will say why waste time with all the chat and email ping pong. Just meet, see if there is a 'click,' and go from there. I know it works for lots of people. But just in my experience, the real 'clicks' with guys, be it friendship or more, there has always been a lot of communication before even meeting. I know a lot of guys have problems with the whole computer thing and the chat lines are simply a no-go, but there is still the phone, and lots and lots of phone talk will give you a bit of knowing as to the real them. Well I think anyway. Perhaps Lynda you might like to let me know what you think about what I am saying, given your profession.

Another thing - and I know they are Dr. Philisms, but they are definitely true - what we fear we attract, or what we focus our attention on we attract. If we go into something only expecting another let down, another player, another hurt, well guess what, that's what we will get. This is why our profiles should be so carefully written. What exactly are we asking for? Or what exactly are we focussing on in our mind as we go about all this dating. That of course is why we have to be over our previous relationship before getting back into a partner search again. If we keep focussing on the anger, hurt, etc. we will attract another into our life quite likely to do the same.

Ambers advise to Broken Wings was so right, she is nowhere near ready to be looking for someone else yet. The same old pattern will simply present itself.

Better go - cooking porridge for the tribe this morning.

Have a great day all.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 17, 2008 7:52 AM

I really do not think that there are as many players on this site as is made out...can't get my head around the idea of a whole generation of older men/women, re-entering the dating game, taking up the sport...I believe that people dating just find out more about each other and change their minds/feelings...whatever and decide not to continue...can be devestating/hurtful for the one left...who may have been drifting into a future with this person...but does not make them a player...it makes them not the one for you...you need to grieve what you were making of the relationship and move on in your search...lest you end up looking/being a bit desperate...It is just harder because we are all that much older and the search is so hard to find match and, when we think we have, we want to hang in there...just my thoughts from reading here...and I have done the same too:))

Posted by: istj54 at June 17, 2008 6:19 AM

To Eral.
I don't want to burn anyone. Now you are twisting my words. I think its great to have such a variety of degenerate artists and authors. As mentioned in my first blog i do not believe in censorship however I do believe there are certain aspects that do influence behavior in society. In reality television has only been around for a few generations and it's impact on society is yet to be determined. I'm not ready to think about the more current multi media's available. In truth I would be much more concerned about the environmental state of the world in which we live in. Maybe society will end up in survival mode before it destroys itself with self importance.

To everyone. (Including ERAL)
I am sorry.
I'm new to this blog thing. in actual fact new to this whole Internet thing. I truly thought I might be able to at least meet someone on this site. (better than sitting here on my own typing this crap in front of a computer screen).
I am most disappointed and ashamed at myself for making the effort to retort to the first negative blog sent my way rather than express my gratitude and thanks to the few who thought I had something worth while to say. I would love to hear from Woodnwine again and hope my negativity and wandering away from the original blog topic didn't offend you.
Cheers Rod

Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 17, 2008 1:08 AM

Jenniferhi, from both my personal experience and observation, I think TW wasn’t that far off the mark in what he described. Sure, perhaps there MAY be some genuine people on RSVP (so people say), but there are definitely many who are NOT (that I have met), who seem to dominate.

It seems the site attracts a lot of rebounding, confused, emotionally challenged guys (I can't speak for the girls, as I haven't dated any), who don't really know what they want, but like to share the pain around. If something’s not working out in their life, they can just jump onto RSVP for a 'quick fix' of company, distraction, sex, attention, time-fill, ego-buzz, or just to play with people pretending to be whoever they want to be. Women looking for love are easy pickings for the revolving door, being so willing, trusting and rosey-eyed.

My advice would be to go slow and get to know someone first, before getting physically and emotionally involved with anyone on-line. And keep away from the cheats, liars, personas, rebounders and emotionally impotent/frigid/cripples!
I’ve picked up a few clues of how to spot them and what to avoid ;) It's actually been a very growthful learning experience.

It's a shame they seem to get most of the lime-light. But I don't like to see the bad guys win - I say we should stay put, and stage a genuine nice people's on-line revolution! ;)
(Where's Stoic - he can be the President that leads the way!)

Decoratress and ERL - if you want to understand multiple cyber personas, check out the link: http://motspluriels.arts.uwa.edu.au/MP1901jd.html

Posted by: riversong01 at June 16, 2008 11:27 PM

Posted by: iaminperth at June 16, 2008 7:44 PM
Actually, no, was most definitely not looking for any kind of information from you re our equine friend.

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 16, 2008 11:03 PM

eats, roots, & leaves @ 12.00pm & June 15, 5.41pm...

Please read carefully - "FARCE" NOT 'exaggeration'

Dictionary..
FARCE: a comic dramatic work using buffoonery & typically including crude characterisation & ludicrously improbable situations.

..and you still haven't explained your statement "my multiple imaginary friends or personalities.."

Posted by: decoratress at June 16, 2008 10:07 PM

Timewarp - 9.07pm. Great post.

It saddens me to think that there are so many users, players manipulating those genuine people looking for love. I do believe though that RSVP is probably the best of the lot in terms of internet dating for the genuine seeker.

My experience has mostly been positive and I have met some fabulous guys, made great friends. Thought the possibilites were there with a couple but alas not to be. And you know the intuition was there, that niggly little voice saying NO. And was proved right yet again. I will always go with it now.

It's all a learning process. The positive posts by those who have made that special connection though is heart warming and I'm sure gives us all hope of finding our special someone.

To any of you users reading - get over yourselves. What goes around - comes around. You never will have a fulfilling life. Just think about how happy you really are in life. Not much I'm guessing. For what you take from life or another will also be taken from you somewhere along the line.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 16, 2008 10:04 PM

gemsnbling at 1:52pm: Think class clowns, 44.

Teacher wants the kids to study the textbook. Clowns want to forget learning today (and every other day) and replace it with "happenings" that make them the centre of attention, and ensure that the eternal outcome is the never-ending stroking of their own egos.

The power of the Pied Piper is highly addictive.

And yes - the profile you're thinking of is quite surreal. On purpose. For a joke.
..........................................................

On a far more serious note, I see that our own local Neighbours show is now being acknowledged by its Producer as fiction, rather than the troupe all still protesting querulously that they are all genuine flesh and blood, whenever challenged.

This is so sensible. If the puppets are authentic and interesting enough to be worth talking to, let's talk to them, knowing they're puppets.

Little of life is precisely what it seems. Everyone goes to a little bit of trouble in some parts of their life to project an image of themselves that they think will be more effective in getting them what they want, compared with their real selves, warts and all.

In their RSVP Profiles, they try to project a caricature of themselves that they hope will work for them. Sometimes even including studio glamour photos.

Of you all, only my new darling is likely to find out after a time, exactly how close my projected blog personality that you all know, comes near to the real me.

I said a while ago that I try to avoid hurting the feelings of other bloggers - even that new woman who seems determined to get up my nose.

(I wonder why she doesn't also tease OG - we three are all in the same age group, so much older than the rest of you. And he's not distracted by a romantic new love affair, or by trying to earn his living.)

But I don't mind really giving heaps to a puppet who's asking for it. They don't get as upset, because they're not the person who's scripting them.

It's just street theatre, where one player happens to be real, and the other is a puppet. Like DIY Walt Disney entertainment for third parties.
...............................................................

Then there's the third matter. There are predatory women in RSVP who spend their life suckering gullible men. Woo them, rip them off (if you own your house and she doesn't, beware) and then dump them flat with no warning.

And there are men like that here as well. Real cads, whether they rip you off, or only purposely steal your self-respect.

I guess it's the motivation - do they want to prove that they can capture your love, and then hurt you by dumping you, just for the sadistic thrill of doing that?

My slant is this - these people are just as twisted, whether they pick up their victims in a pub, in RSVP or on these blogs. Watch out for them all, and dob on any who've done it to you. They owe you for the ego trip.

Posted by: timewarp1 at June 16, 2008 9:07 PM

Kurli TW and WL wanted to know about Percherons. I think another thing they are used for is to collect blood to make anti venom products. Apparently there is a large laboratory in France that does this and supplies most of the supply for all types of drugs that are used for snake/spider bites or life threatening situations where dispersment is needed.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 16, 2008 7:44 PM

Ummmmmmmm, is it just me, or is there some kind of new humour (what's it called?) going on with the way a few guys on the blogs of late have set up there profiles.
It's sort of making me think the blogs are beginning to look like patients from the looney bin?

Posted by: gemsnbling at June 16, 2008 1:52 PM

Posted by: eleganteloquent at June 16, 2008 11:27 AM

hehehehEE,
the build up of methane in here must be getting to me ... !

Posted by: decoratress at June 16, 2008 9:21 AM
Ok - your starting to become disturbing.
My reply now to "Such a shame " email ?
- NO thanks.

please read carefully - "PERSONALITIES" NOT 'profiles'

As for my post being a farce ( i wish i was laughing ) - what specifically have i exaggerated ?

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 16, 2008 12:00 PM

Correction:
My post @ 9.21am should read:

"I repeat my query about your "multiple imaginary friends or personalities" (June 15, 5.41pm) ...?"

Posted by: decoratress at June 16, 2008 11:51 AM

Thus Spoke Zarathustra... really ERAL....come on mate.... emulating Nietzsche on a blog about staying friends with exs...just a wee bit pretentious, eh? Ok, open the guns, ready, aim, fire, blast back.....
Regarding exs and friends, I just had another date ring to tell me why we are not compatible (apparently I am too intellectual this time...remind me to avoid Homer Simpson in future), then tell me that he *really* wanted to stay friends with me...made me wonder what 'friends' are about. I like to be myself with friends, not feel the need to have to tone anything down but just be me, so can an ex actually be a friend but just look at how much we adjust and try to fit in with lovers. I am not so sure I can stand having a friend who I had to continually adjust to...can't really see how exs can be friends, the relationship is soooo different

Posted by: eleganteloquent at June 16, 2008 11:27 AM

eatsroots&leaves...

Yes, you are missing something..
Deliberately.

I've made my profile visible again, so please.. feel free to respond via email.
Your seemingly ingenuous post is a farce, & this new profile of yours is easily recognisable to many.

I repeat my query about your "multiple imaginary friends or profiles" (June 15, 5.41pm) ...?
What, then, do you mean?

Posted by: decoratress at June 16, 2008 9:21 AM

Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 15, 2008 7:54 PM

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
The art is to fulfill the dictum attributed to Einstein, without generalizing.

TV, movies, games etc ....Why stop there ? There are ALL of those degenerate artists, and authors we have to blame for the breakdown of our great society ! Burn them ALL shall we ?
-Thus Spoke Eatsrootsandleaves

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 16, 2008 9:02 AM

Jenhi@7.22 am

Thanks for your encouraging words Jen..It's the first time I've participated in such open blogging: my own private blog fades into mediocrity compared with the wide ranging topics and views aired here........feels like I've embarked on a cyber course for "educating kurli to the real world" VBG

Posted by: kurli at June 16, 2008 9:01 AM

decoratress at June 15, 2008 10:31 PM

Is there no method to your madness?

First you kiss me, and then the next day via another blog, you say i have poor morals, and imply that I may even be a lurking sociopath, and warn other members to stay away from me !
Yesterday, you email me, requesting we forget the past, and then asked for my friendship (note; an email which i was unable to respond to as you've made your profile invisible !) and now again you've returned to slandering me, over what is obviously an 'insider' attempt at humor.

Am i missing something? - talk about how to lose friends and infuriate people !

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 16, 2008 8:30 AM

Kurli - 10.46 pm.

Certainly know what you mean. There definitely are some very big ego's who love the sound of their own voice (or internet writings). But stick with it, because there really are some wonderful/insightful/caring people here as well. (And those big ego's fit into those catagories as well sometimes.) Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Please continue to write. The site does need some new contributors. And it's obvious your insights will be very worthwhile and fun as well.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 16, 2008 7:22 AM

iaminperth - put a sock in it.

Posted by: riversong01 at June 15, 2008 11:08 PM

For the life of me................I CANNOT see the relevence between Percherons and dressag/and or "human relationship"
For god's/allah/.buddha's sake,GET a LIFE and get things into perspective!!
Stop concentrating on your id.......and think of the greater good.

You all seem to think (that)you are clevr/great/better than anyone.............
for yours and humanity's sake..........think past your EGO and do something worthwhile

Posted by: kurli at June 15, 2008 10:46 PM

Hi Virgil, I think deep down it is a phoney baloney. It is so cold and wet and windy here in Perth, can't believe it. Every day is so different, the weather is changing by the minute. I am so looking forward to the summer again. As you know there are problems also with gas supply, not sure if it affects SA but apparently next week it will be pretty bad for most business here, especially tourism, can't do the washing etc. I don't have any 6a.m. starts this week, new job so I am so looking forward to being able to sleep in until 7. Getting up at 5 to go to work in winter got a bit difficult after a while. I am hoping the gas shortage doesn't impact the guys in the field but we will face that problem if it happens.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 10:32 PM

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 5:41 PM
"In all truth, its still quite possible that your guess, is probably only as good as any that my multiple imaginary friends or personalities, or I, might make on that complex condition".

Eats, roots, & leaves.. your "multiple imaginary friends or personalities"?

How strange that you should admit to having these multiple imaginary friends! No doubt they all have an opinion? ..surely that must drive you crazy! Indeed, where might they comment.. or make a guess?

.. you say you only have the one profile?

Posted by: decoratress at June 15, 2008 10:31 PM

Percherons are not at all good for dressage, they are usually not tall enough and because of their conformation cannot flex enough at the poll. Definitely not dressage horses, thoroughbred and warmbloods are the go or a cross. I have always preferred Thoroughbred myself, however a well bred Hosteiner is hard to beat. The german warmbloods are magnificent creatures, very agile and usually very quiet in temperament. Whilst this is wonderful in training sometimes they lose that little spark in the ring. Having worked in the Racehorse Industry for 23 years I have a soft spot for thoroughbreds and could always buy some pretty magnificent looking horses very cheaply if they didn't measure up on the track. A slow racehorse could become a very good eventer, which was what I was involved with. Dressage is a small part of the three day component. I only ride every now and then for pleasure and don't own any horses, just a walk with a friend on his property near the Margaret River.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 8:49 PM

What a bad tempered potty mouthed person you are WL. For someone who knows nothing about my life, yes did cut and paste the percheron information for TW, stated that. What are you in a rage about, I would suggest you get a grip. I am a person on a blog who suggested that someone get psychiatric help because to me she sounded like she needed it. You don't know me, know nothing about what I have done, where I work, absolutely nothing. I do not have to justify myself to you as I don't know you, don't ever wish to know you and from what I can see is you have not come up with one positive thing to try to help that little child if she is in crisis. I would suggest you take a look at yourself and try to control your anger a little, it could be disastrous for the people around you as well.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 8:40 PM

Lynath, "the look" as you call it was actually nothing of the sort, when l was clicking on the blog topic l wasn't paying attention and clicked your name instead.
Nothing sinister of that you can be assured.....................K

Posted by: auntykaz at June 15, 2008 8:29 PM

My university studies include 8 units of psychology, much more science and evidence based than I might have thought them to be, before starting to study in that area.

My experience in visiting psychologists were that the benefits gained were lasting, as I was mostly asked what did i feel, and when I related a point, I was asked how does that make me feel?

Posted by: virgil at June 15, 2008 8:11 PM

Gemsbling

Great to see you here tonight.

If more people had half your courage in the face of adversity, the world would be a much better place.

You are an insipration to me. When I face difficullt times in the future, I will think of you at this time.

Doug

Posted by: virgil at June 15, 2008 8:01 PM

Thank you ERAL for your kind words of wisdom.
You are absolutely correct I am being simplistic. That’s because I am a simple man and see things for what they are. Common sense often looks for the simpler answers first.

You are also correct, there are plenty of countries that don’t have the type of society changing television that I am describing. I do know that America has spread its influence too most, if not all, of the western world. I wouldn’t hesitate a guess at the number of populace involved there. As far as the Eastern world is concerned I don’t think I would have to delve to deeply to find some indiscretions with their cultural beliefs on society. Just look at the way Japan still thinks its acceptable to hunt for whales (only one example) or the way China treats their Tibetan brothers (one example). As far as North and South go, do they even have tv :). I do believe however that there are some Middle Eastern countries that would certainly not promote teenage rape, petty crime and infidelity as acceptable viewing. But who am I to throw stones.
I’m guessing, and I hate guessing, maybe the type of television I was describing only affects a few, maybe three billion people around the world.

As far as having to travel to a war zone in Africa for a change in pace and to getting back to human nature is concerned. I only need to look in my own back yard to see enough indigenous dysfunction, racism, and violence. I have never been to Africa and don’t understand the violence affecting those regions. Maybe if there were fifty million aboriginals in Australia we might think a little a little more positively about our indigenous brothers.

As far as my “caveman” comment was concerned I think you may have misunderstood my point. All I was trying to say was. If you only look at the tiniest little change for the improvement of society then at least your starting to think in the right direction. Who knows it may be the beginning of the ripple effect of throwing a small pebble into a big pond. Or as a great man once said, “from little things big things grow”.

I don’t want to go down the easy path of being cynical and use what little abilities I have for negative effect. I would much rather make an effort to be positive and promote a peaceful existence.

To all
Peace and happiness. Where is the love?

Ps. To ERAL
I hope I’m not twisting your words. After all they were your words.

Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 15, 2008 7:54 PM

Perth

You may well be onto something there!

I havent read the blogs much over the last few days but did a bit of catching up this morning.

For a first time effort, broken wings has controlled this blog for several days it seems.

I wouldn't have picked that for a captain thunderbox effort, but remember well his venture into the wold of the jolly roger.

Posted by: virgil at June 15, 2008 7:52 PM

Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 3:27 PM "She actually did state she was a psychologist and now the profile has been changed, she is now a health care professional with a degree."

Actually, she originally stated that she had (previously) studied psychology and was working as a nurse, whilst pursuing further health/nursing studies. Big difference! Maybe you should learn to read what is written, not what you perceive it to be.

Just because she has studied psychology does not make her able to resolve all of her own problems herself.

Many university students, in many fields of expertise, find themsleves studying psychology at some point - teachers also study psychology as part of their pre-service training. I know of a life coach who has 'studied' psychology, as well as a solicitor, just for some insight into the behaviours of the people they work with - and, of course, how to behave appropriately yourself, when working with these people.

You might like to look into some of the courses available - in your job at the 'coalface', I'm sure that you would most definitely benefit from having psychological resources at your disposal.

WL: female, 49-turning-50 soon, Bris, 2 boys, Cafe franchise owner (with 2 units of psychology electives under belt in my business managment studies), certainly not jealous of anyone who has such an easy life, and spend my time out and about while you are blogging away about things of which you know absolutely nothing. Oh, our Percherons can be seen at the Bris Ekka in June-hope you took note of your cut'n paste in that they are great for dressage.

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 15, 2008 7:37 PM

iaminperth
Gosh Perth, you sound so grumpy lately. Is everything alright Honey?
Your posts up until recently were always full of humour and made me laugh, but lately you sound so angry.
What's this? Rip the victim apart bizzo going on here.
Come on, a little more compassion would be more beneficial,
Give us something that will make the wounded feel better or comforted by?
Smile!
Peace and Love to all
xxx

Posted by: gemsnbling at June 15, 2008 6:03 PM

Could all you people in Perth stop glaring at me...friends and relatives of Iaminperth, are you?

I have already had "the look" from auntykaz last night...

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 15, 2008 5:53 PM

The profile hasn't changed . She states she majored in Psychology but that does not qualify her as a Psychologist.

Perhaps she/he is a student and using the blog for research..a lot of information can be gathered here quickly if required.
In any case the post made is still a usual scenario in the problem of Domestic violence.

Glad you find a bit of humour in my posts Iaminperth

I understand you see a problem, you see a solution, and you see it fixed and can't understand why it shouldn't happen that easily. It's a natural reaction of a decent person, which you are.

When humans are involved it is not always that straighforward and change can't be rushed- that is a basic lesson to be learned by anyone starting out to work in a Community setting. It is also a hard lesson, as most people who work in that area are kind and compassionate and joined up to "make a difference and help people" They get a very rude shock when they discover that their 'making a difference' and 'helping' is not always welcomed and they are told to mind their own business and go away(usually in far less polite terms)

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 15, 2008 5:47 PM

EE, I respect that your well educated ( but can you program your VCR ?), and if you genuinely are an informed student of the field - then you would also know that during its short history, the professors of psychology have changed its opinion on the vagueness of the mind-brain chemistry connection, at least more times than i have changed my underwear.
In all truth, its still quite possible that your guess, is probably only as good as any that my multiple imaginary friends or personalities, or I, might make on that complex condition.

Balance is the key to healthy moderation in all things - in words you might recognize - the "middle path".

I believe i have been balanced in my expressed opinions, BUT/AND I don't ask you to, nor feel compelled by any need to have you agree with it. (however I certainly don't like the sanctimonious attitudes of the some postings )

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 5:41 PM

Lynathdiahorrea June 15, 2008 2:15 PM

Chris, you are at it again babe. You have completely missed the point of what is the real issue here.

From one point of view welfare of the child is paramount, however there is no evidence that any abuse (apart from the public disclosure of allegations, which is an invasion of the kids rights, and by her mother no less) has occured to it.
What has occurred beyond doubt is the male partner has been slurred. If this persons profile is real her photograph can be recognised and from that a reasonable person who knew her, or of her, could infer some extremely serious and defamatory things about him.Nowhere does she say he has been CONVICTED of anything. The accusations may be grandstanding by this woman and no harm may have been done to her but harm to the mans reputation has happened.
BTW, the profile has been changed and the inference the writer is a 'psychologist' (whatever that really means- I have met psychologists who fringe practise and whose grip on reality is tenuous) has back slid.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 15, 2008 4:16 PM

Hi everyone,
I see poor brokenwings is still the hot topic around here!
From what I thought I read in her post, she was speaking in the past tense, not as if the abuse was still going on. She states she is divorced, after all.

I just thought the girl was having a really bad day (we all have them) and something had happened in her life to bring "everything back" in a terrible way.

I can remember in the first year or two after leaving my ex, small things would just trigger the most awful feelings.
I would been feeling fine, then just have a few terrible days where I would get really down, feel guilty about everything, and get really angry, depressed and teary. (I think it's called grief)
Then I would pick myself back up again and would feel good - until the next time!

Just her pseudonym 'brokenwings' indicates to me, that she is still feeling very "broken". Despite her bright and breezy profile.
On the day she wrote her post, she was having a real 'downer', maybe a mistake to let all out on here, but she is according to her profile only in her late 20s.
Maybe she was looking for a bit of support, maybe she just needed to rant (no matter how well you get on with your ex's family - you can only say so much to a mum about her son!), maybe she was just attention seeking.
To me, it didn't matter. She just sounded 'down' and needed someone to let her know, things can get better, but she will need to get some support and assistance.

The fact she has a psychology degree (according to her profile) means nothing to me. So what?
Even psychologists with years of "on the job" experience, have life crises. Psychologists have marital problems, get divorced, separate from long-term partners, suffer abuse, even commit suicide.
They are just Human Beings like the rest of us.
No one can be clinically objective about their own life, no matter what their training and experience. Someone with a degree may only have the knowledge, and little real experience.
Who would want to be with someone who was THAT clinical anyway!

As far as the Family Court and the Child Support Agency, are concerned, those of us with recent experience will tell you, nothing is straight forward or always as easy as it seems, unless you are lucky enough to have a really "nice" person as an ex!
And Child Welfare Services are so over-stretched that only the most dire cases even get investigated in SA, according to recent media reports.

According ot her profile, brokenwings is in her late 20s. At that age I hadn't even begun discovering my real self. I had little self-esteem and very little positive life experience.
If only I knew back then, what I know now!
How much wiser would I have been?
I think that would apply to all of us who write here on these blogs!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 15, 2008 3:36 PM

She actually did state she was a psychologist and now the profile has been changed, she is now a health care professional with a degree. None of this makes a lot of sense and frankly I don't believe it is true. Also it is easy to attack anyone who has an opinion and without disclosing personal information the writer has no option to reply, or in my case wouldn't be bothered to. The constant references to my easy life just points to jealousy on your part, so maybe you just need to get over yourselves and get a life. I don't know if WL is male or F but from the venom and nonsense written would guess female. Lynath, your posts are so long and dreary and so full of inconsistencies they are laughable. I think the fish or the captain is having a bit of fun here.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 3:27 PM

i see a clash of egos on here

Posted by: cutesmile52 at June 15, 2008 3:20 PM

Hi ERAL, First sociopathy is not necessarily genetic. I do work in the field so do know this. Second, compassion is not about ignoring action and the term 'glib compassion' is an oxymoron... or maybe that is my interpretation as a Buddhist where compassion is deep, even when situations cannot be changed. Third, if my grandkids were being abused I would not hesitate to act for all the parties concerned, immediately and unquestioningly with the parent/s and with the stated intent of contacting child support and removing the child/children to my own home if possible. And seeking to help the offerender/s to deal with their own pain. Maybe that is one reason why it doesn't happen in my family, because my children do have family support in myself and their partners parents. Not everyone has this. There are some read horror stories out there and judging people by them helps no one. That is where compassion comes in, allowing yourself to feel it when the situation is something you can do little or nothing about. That's the facts of life when you meet people who are living in hell and try to find some small way to offer some small help. You can't change everythng and have to accept that fact of life.

Posted by: eleganteloquent at June 15, 2008 3:13 PM

Certainly was the same job in the same field except different company. I stand by my comments and you can sling as much rubbish as you wish and run around in circles. I believe doing something proactive and seeking medical intervention is something that is required for the person in question to be able to rationalise the situation she has found herself in. A psychiatrist, obviously with a referral would be a good start. If you don't like proactive action then that's your problem, I for one would not just standby as intervention would be required on behalf of the child.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 2:59 PM

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 15, 2008 2:15 PM

I've never claimed to be an expert on this topic, but please - whose being hysterical now ??? You like to twist peoples words don't you - "witch hunt" indeed - what conceit !

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 2:37 PM

iaminperth I have my doubts about you. The profiler in question does not state she is a psychologist for a start.

Secondly you state you work 'at the coalface" I am wondering what you mean as your advertised employment is Admin.

Your attitude displays very little understanding of these situations . Your cure all on all topics is the old stiff upper lip and pull yourself together and get over it routine..

People in this situation do not need to see a Psychiatrist unless they also have a diagnosed mental illness requiring medication..
They usually need some counselling from a Psychologist or other specialist Counsellor and a good GP.

The child will also be assessed, but not made a life long victim by having it instilled that she had an abusive parent. We don't know what the profiler defines as abuse anyway.

They definitely need support from the greater community.and a good friend is invaluable. Watching Dr Phil, reading similar stories in the Womens Weekly or joining online support groups or the local womens group are actually all very therapeutic for someone leaving these situations and needing to work through it all. They need someone to understand, to talk to and to listen. Seeing a Psychologist, even weekly ,does not fill in all the other hours of the week when support is needed. Those things are more useful than medicating to the eyeballs to numb the pain.Knowing others have been through the same thing and become happy again is a powerful motivator.

As to what has been suggested to help, there is no need, because if you read the post properly you will see she is talking about the past. She is already dealing with the situation.

For anyone else they can seek initial help via a GP or Hospital Emergency Dept. or the Local Community Health Centre or Local Council Social Worker or ring Dept of Human Services or Department Of Childrens Services if Children are involved.

It doesn't matter if the post is a hoax or not, it is a reality for lots of people who do need help and support.

EARL ..great witch burning post with hysterical accusations to fuel the guilty verdict. Once again blame the woman and condemn her. Where is your condemnation of the men who do the abusing? Oh that is right they are just naughty "bad boys" who can't control themselves and do it because the woman " asked for it"

Yes, there are a percentage of that stereotype involved in domestic abuse, but there is a very large percentage of" guy next, door pillar of the community" involved as well.

Anyone with any education, from any background ,with any socio economic situation, with any health and drug status can find themselves in this situation.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 15, 2008 2:15 PM

I agree EE - however 'tough love' certainly has its place. Offering glib compassion, without correction isn't just self delusional, its also a form of corruption.

It would be a travesty to over simplify the solution to the disgusting things people do to each other, with a simple - "there there, you'll do better next time".

If you found out that your grandchild was being abused, and that your daughter through her actions was enabling the abuse - what would you say to her ??

We have a duty of care to children - they are the future we are creating.
Unfortunately, not many make the effort .

And, my understanding of sociopathic personalities is that it's a genetic trait (I may be wrong), hence not a learned behavior. So you could talk to them all you want...they would tell you whatever you wanted to hear- then do it again with a smile. In many ways its a genetic trait that would help a man survive most of the perils he might encounter in a harsh competitive world. At least just long enough to procreate, and hence pass on those genes to his offspring. Maybe, a female might even unwittingly search for those genes in the hope of creating offspring that has the same fearless personality !

The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind...

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 1:48 PM

Iaminperth, your self-righteous indignation refuses you to allow you to actually see my point - that whatever "near hysterics" or "fragile state of mind" brokenwings may be in at present, the kind of amateur psychology and tactless, pious lectures on parenting/relationship choices and skills given on this site will only add fuel to the already highly emotive state she is in.

You say that you work "in the coalface" with people in similar situations:

Would you give an alcoholic a bottle of booze? Would you give a man with lung cancer a packet of cigarettes? Would you give a person in "near hysterics" pious lectures and admonish them, expounding their faults, criticising choices, adding to their anguish? I know that I wouldn't.

But you, who are well-experienced in this field, professionally, would know that a great deal of tact, diplomacy, encouragement, empathy and constructive advice and a network of supportive, skilled and 'quaified' professionals and resources will best help people in this kind of situation.

So, point No 2, was that unless you actually know how to help this person, you are probably best not to add to a highly contentious situation. And that does not include snippets from Dr Phil, nor the No Idea rags that you source.

But thanks for giving me the info on those
"no brainers" you can list so easily. If I get bored during my dose of the flu and home renovations this week, I may indulge-I've worked full time all my life and I can't say that I've ever enjoyed the experience of gaining all of my worldly knowledge from the rags, tellie or google.

PS This job "in the coalface" - is this the same job you stated you were starting only last Monday?

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 15, 2008 1:09 PM

Yes, ERAL the pattern does continue, and the daughter has learned it in situ, and may well use similar strategies in adulthood because it is comforting, reminiscent of childhood no matter how bad but still comforting. The woman herself more than likely was a child like her own once. So we watch stuff that is hard and predictable, but does that help? The 'bad boys' also have reasons for what they do, intense intimacy avoidance, sociopathic using of others, probably also learnt early on. The circle does go on and on, and we all feel it - street crimes, crimes against self and property... relationships simply signify people's states of minds, including pain, despondency and inabilities to walk from destructive cycles. Offering help is hard, rescuing is not the answer, encouraging to look for professional support to break the cycle maybe is? Compassion can still be there, though, for the woman, her child, and even the 'bad boys', surely.

Posted by: eleganteloquent at June 15, 2008 12:41 PM

This can be hard a topic.there can be no friends if the ex is still in love with ur new partner but if nothing is involved an u become friends with the ex also, i dont see a problem. then theres the whole issue of if children are involved.This topic depends on your situaton

Posted by: petal27 at June 15, 2008 10:28 AM

ERAL 6.12am. Excellent post. Let's hope the cycle is broken now. For everyone's sake.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 15, 2008 10:16 AM

Yes ER&L unfortunately it is a pattern that can be repeated thru each generation. Some people choose to live in this heightened state of chaos living for the next outburst, such a shame for the children they don't stand a chance.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 15, 2008 10:16 AM

Extremely perceptive comments ERAL.

Posted by: istj54 at June 15, 2008 9:46 AM

Something odd about all this. Why when such a post is written, the woman has not checked into the site. Seems strange to me.
Also, her profile age says 29 yet the text says she is 27. Does that me this is perhaps someone who has been a member of the site for some time and has recently re-activated her profile yet not updated the text. Hmmmm.
If it all is true, and even if it isn't, let's hope she or others perhaps in this situation can gain some helpful advise in moving on in their life.

Jen.

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 15, 2008 9:35 AM

choosing not to condemn someone who faced a difficult situation does not mean blanket approval of what occurred. there are many factors which influence the decisions people make. surely further criticism serves no useful purpose.

Posted by: kisskat at June 15, 2008 8:10 AM

Sheesh - this topic has really taken on a life of its own!
BUT- i think most posts are missing the point - "whats been done, is done, and cannot be undone", no matter how right or wrong our thoughts and feelings on the topic may be.

What she should have, could have etc is pointlessly debated.

However, the futures of the mother and child, ( and the deadbeat father) are still to be written. Here lies some real gristle to the mill.

Firstly , i can't believe that the mother wasn't drug addicted herself. Either to alcohol, or to harder substances. The fact she didnt go to the police,and often, seems to suggest she was complicit...

Unfortunately, many young women, seem to be attracted to these fast talking, quick tempered 'bad boys', and continue to stay with them, after being abused, because of the thrill of their sexual tension, drug addiction, and also in the hope of turning their 'bastard' into a 'good guy'.

Its only usually only after all the parents,siblings and police have had to intervene,on many occasions, that the gal realises that "enough is enough- for now".
She doesn't want to lose all her support, after all.
BUT - To everyones horror, she returns again and again, until ultimately all her support from friends and family is used up , and at the point , her abuser has her utterly in his clutches.

Unfortunately, these women also don't seem to learn anything from their disaster. (especially if people around her only say - 'it was all his fault dear, your the victim"- think this is what the ATTACKERS(?) are trying to say. Of course - we all try to be sympathetic to innocent victim, but this is someone who was at first an accomplice, and only at some later point did they become a self imposed hostage. Their cries of lament may be sorrowful to our ears, but they are not without being self-pitying. So she has come here looking for support, that her real life wont give her anymore...)

In need of company and sex , she will eventually find another 'bad boy' to boyfriend ( for the same reasons as before), and unfortunately rather than being and improvement on the first, these men are usually much worse than the father ! The new guy certainly doesn't want to take care of some other blokes child, and is only there for sex, and money (for drugs). Often she tries to change him into the new "dad", and from then on, the shit truly hits the fan !
Many of these following relationships end horrendously as the violence escalates to new heights.

Now, to "true victim" of this whole story, the daughter, who having watched all the males (and female) behavior all her life will be patterned to seek out these very same men (!), another 'bad boy' just like her father, (because she still wants the love of her father) and the whole cycle begins anew !

Good luck Brokenwing, your daughter will need it.

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 15, 2008 6:12 AM

Marcus................crap your post8.26pm
I can only presume the posts have been held up this long for my answer, point for point.
Your view as to them being any form of hysterical or accusing, I just read them as they where written, and did not judge them, I made my point on the other blog which has elicited no other comment.
After the hoo haa her post has caused do you blame her (seeing it was her first post) for running for cover.
As to the feel of how would I feel if you made that accusation about me with my grand daughter. Imagine how you would feel about one second after you had made it. and stuff the consequenses. you are presuming, that there is such a thing as a fair trial. The case you are refering to is a known fact not allowed in her trial that she has a history dating back to the age of 14 of such incidents, has always been afforded legal aid that has bludged on the tax payer and supported numerous legal eagles to become affluent. they do not forgo their rights they have more bloody rights than you and me mate. as to the rest of your bleeding heart twaddle about them not being able to provide for themselves consider the fact that they have never done that or have even thought of doing it. The judicial system effective and honest and fair and open, ha, go and talk to any member of the "Victim's of Crime" organisation if you want to get your ears chewed of for expressing those opinions
As always Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 11:52 PM

Maybe those that posted not to your liking should have shut up and pretended they hadn't read it at all.........................K
Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 8:24 PM

Congratulations, auntykaz, the most intelligent words submitted to these blogs in quite a while!

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 14, 2008 10:59 PM

It seems you also have problem reading Waterlilly, Marcus and I also expressed concern. I believe Psychiatric help would be an immense help to get the mother back on track and able to face all these issues in a logical manner. Or do you find that offensive as well, rather the Womens Weekly instead.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:22 PM

And to add let me ask a question of all the sympathetic so called do gooders here. What have you suggested to help the situation, you have dribbed oh poor you, you have attacked anyone with positive input, therefore isolating the person further, you have tutt tutted and gone back to your little clothes dryer existence. Personally, the way it is going at the moment I have my doubts that this person is real at all. Normally weird profiles pop up with characters from overseas, but this one is not, they are all highly educated as this one is supposedly. She is a psychologist, I don't think so, she would be deregistered for this rant. I am leaning at the moment to somebody sitting back and having a good laugh.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:17 PM

Waterlily, Your accusations and assumptions about me are so off the mark to be laughable. However, I will not justify myself to someone who comes out with such rot as I work in that area and have done for many many years. Unlike you I do not talk to 'friends' or watch Dr. Phil or read No Idea, I work at the coalface.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:08 PM

Marcus, well said on all points..................K

Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 9:06 PM

Ogre
I assume you are referring to my comments regarding the woman who appeared here making a range of semi hysterical claims and accusations about goings on in her life.
It all sounds plausibly tragic and has certainly got the worthies advising and wringing their hands and self appointed defenders like yourself ready to round up a lynch party. It could all be complete bullshit from a pathological liar and attention seeker. Fact is you and I know zero about the veracity of her claims. This person hasn't logged on since thursday last and certainly isn't engaged in any discussion.
She may have an axe to grind against her partner and as we all know accusations of child abuse engender very strong reactions. How would you feel if I said, in front of 20 people, someone told me you had interfered with your grandaughter?
The principle that needs to operate is an investigation based on presumption of innocence and a fair trial and hearing and that includes for the woman accused of causing the death. If there are medical issues, including addiction to alchohol or drugs, treatment and advice should be offered. Legal aid/representation is vitally important in cases like these, just because someone is an accused does not mean they forgoe their rights. Adherence to principles like these contribute to our relatively cohesive society and great nationhood. Care for those who for whatever reason cannot provide for themselves is a hallmark of social compassion and strength, not weakness. That said we have a judicial system that from what I can see is quite effective.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 14, 2008 8:26 PM

Waterlily, l would think that the women and men here who have commented would do so with possibly the best of intentions in regards to a child who was being abused, verbally, emotionally and physically, and by the way they are Brokenwings words in her original post.
Very emotive words they are, would you rather that they were ignored by the people here that read them?
Of course the subject matter was going to elicit the responses that it. Maybe those that posted not to your liking should have shut up and pretended they hadn't read it at all.........................K

Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 8:24 PM

Malsie, Posted by: malsie at June 14, 2008 1:46 PMamazing story of the strength you found within yourself for your child.

Iaminperth, it is obvious that you have never been in this situation. I have, however, seen a friend go through similar. While your words about police, arrests, child support etc all sound good, even impressively simplistic, you are way off track on how much paperwork and red tape, how many legal loopholes, investigation, negotiation, mediation, counselling, time, money, law courts, physicial and emotional assessment of your children, interrogation of your children, and continued abuse and emotional chaos that these people go through.

Did you Google your family law information, like you do your dogs and horses? If you had, you may have found some insightful facts and statistics that just might have knocked you off your high horse.

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 14, 2008 7:10 PM

In determining custody and access arrangements a criminal history is taken into account as to whether the person has full access or supervised access.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 7:07 PM

Lynath,
I have to disagree, not fear or threats but children knew the reality of their own actions and were held responsible for them, tell me that is the case today,even to adults, particularly the 33 year old woman up here that caused to death of a 83 year old woman to get money to buy drugs and now blames the drugs for her action and should not be sent to prison "diminished responsibility" crap, a waste of space and oxygen plus tax payers money, (legal aid granted) lets get real.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 7:05 PM

Think back people, to when your relationship first hit the dust.

What kind of emotional state were you in? did you have friends and/or family to thrash things out with? Did you rant and rave and vent and hurl abuse? Did you cry, have a few too many to drink, tear up photos or anything else that helped you try to ease the hurts, resolve issues for yourself and get your life back on track?

I know I did. I went through phases of just having to thrash all of the issues out for myself - it was part of getting my act together and moving on.

For whatever reason, brokenwings chose this site to have a vent, or three. Maybe not the most appropriate of places to do so, but, if you think about it, she is obviously going through all of the separation trauma that we have all felt, experienced, wallowed in, and overcome (hopefully) to be who we are now - hopefully, mature minded and responsible adults, ready to move onwards and upwards in life.

So, far, despite several posts expressing concern for the situation, only timewarp has had the gumption to offer any sound advice - to go the the free women's legal centre (thanks, tw, didn't know that existed, but may come in handy one day).

Come on, people, think about it. If broken wings is in half as fragile a state as her posts indicate, then she needs support - not accusations, not condemnation, not insistance that she attend counselling, and not derision or insulting comments on her fields of study or professional expertise. She also doesn't need to hear 'what I would have done" or "how I have raised my children" - she probably has more than enough of that racing around inside of her head and her heart anyway. Comments such as I have read re this issue, last night and this evening, lay only more blame and hurt on someone who obviously has enough of her own (and her ex's) to deal with at the moment.

Even the most scholarly or professional or famous etc of people have been known to need support through the traumatic times in their lives. So, might I suggest, in all fairness, that unless you have something constructive to say, keep your comments to yourself. You are only fuelling a highly emotive situation. I know I would not like to be responsible for adding to this person's fragile state at this point in time.

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 14, 2008 6:57 PM

Marcus @ 4.21 pm.
That is precisely in your post what I rail against, bleeding hearts are more interested in the rights of the offender that the victims, if they are that offended to be named and shamed let them go to court and stand the scrutiny of public opinion. We have a local paper that used to name the offenders of break-ins, thefts and assaults. The offended squeal that went up from the legal parasites that threatend their "bread an butter" was such that he had to desist, threatened not from the ferals but the legal proffesion. Do the crime do the time, now is a joke. Bloody political correctness gone crazy.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 6:55 PM

iaminperth, having a husband arrested on a criminal charge has got no relation to family court matters.
Even if he was arrested and charged he would probably not be locked up for more than a few hours at most. What would the penalty be even if convicted? A good lawyer could get him off most likely.
If she then decided to go to the Family Court for property settlement there can be a long wait before a hearing and any custody issues are decided.
It costs money to go for a property settlement and chances are the settlement is half of nothing if there are drugs and alcohol involved...hardly worth it.

As it stands it appears she has the childs extended family on the fathers side admirably continuing to stand by them.
Not in the best interests to jeapoardise that by starting court cases that aren't going to solve anything but may lose a lot and make life worse for the child.

I am presuming the child is 10 or under brokenwing is 29 and said she married her childhood sweetheart.

If you read the post it seems apparentt that Brokenwing is talking about the past, but her use of past and present tense could lead a reader to believe she is still in the situation.eg "he bashes me for years, he cheats on me for years, he bashes my daughter" really meant "he bashed me he bashed my daughter he cheated on me"

She is saying clearly that she stood by him through thick and thin endured violence and abuse for years, left him when he hit her daughter and is appalled that he still had the nerve to ask to be her friend and has finally escaped the situation and seen him for what he is.

auntykaz you have taken my words out of context...add on "There is pressure from many areas to maintain marriages for the sake of the family." I am not advocating staying with a violent alcoholic or any alcoholic I am just saying that there are pressures even today to stay together. I am saying though that if you love someone you will usually not give up on them too soon when things are in a down phase as I am sure you would know all about.

Marcus the chances of identity are slim and the mention of the child is not detailed nor inappropriate in the context of the story. We are not in a court case here nor bound by professional standards of confidentiality as in a workplace,and because of the anonymous nature of the blog we cannot be sure who or what is real, so we might as well discuss the important issues raised.
If you censor one thing then you will have to censor everything. How many of us here have used real stories and situations we have been in to blog. Too much political correctness and fear of retribution will leave us to talk about the weather. Many people have mentioned their children and ex partners and they could be potentially identified.It is up to the individual to decide what they will or won't say and most people do tell the truth. I am tired of living in a "nanny state" which is getting worse every day and am beginning to fear the end of freedom of speech.

OG fear and threats are no way to run a relationship. The best thing to happen was the introduction of the single mothers pension and equal pay for equal work. Prior to that women had little choice

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 6:38 PM

I agree Amber with everything you say but unfortunately that is the system we live under at the moment and it is there to protect people. I am sure for every failure there are a lot of successes and a lot of things that people can do involving police and protection agencies if there is trouble. It is when it becomes isolated and not presented to the relevant agencies where the problems start.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 5:08 PM

BTW, I was in no way inferring that children are only abused by men!
If anyone thought I was, no definitely not!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 14, 2008 4:49 PM

Lynath @ 3.36 pm.
In this day and age we would be thrown in jail, then, the one bashing or threat of one was enough, it empowered the woman because she knew she did not have to put up with the abuse and the man knew retribution would be swift and harder. Incidents of this type of abuse used to make headlines in the paper then, now it hardly makes a mention unless it is a dull news day. Having lived through both the periods you can have your "enlightened" modern times. Give me the days when we cared and dared to rectify injustice.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 4:39 PM

Unfortunately OG a smack on the bum, in our era, now could mean catapaulting a child into a wall head first. I can understand what you are saying, but who is there to gauge the level of the smack and how often from irresponsible parents.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 4:36 PM

So then Alcoholism, for instance, is a disease. Mental illness is a disease. What sort of person would we be if we abandoned our sick partner? What sort of commitment is there if you leave at the first sign of 'for worse"? There is pressure from many areas to maintain marriages for the sake of the family.Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 3:36 PM
Sorry Lynath, but really have to dispute this. Living with an alcoholic is not a pleasant way to live your life, speaking from experience. If the alcoholic does not want change as in to not be an alcoholic or indeed get better, is the right thing to do to stay with him ?? For better or for worse notwithstanding, subjecting my family to living with an alcoholic father was not an option.
Alcoholism as an illness affects not only the alcoholic but the entire family. I would not want my kids to be subject to that.
Their father chose to drink himself stupid, but that does not mean they had to be witness to it.......................K

Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 4:33 PM

Umm Perth,
Not necessarily true. Just look at the recent case of the little 3 yo boy murdered by his father at Coober Pedy in SA.

Last year I attended a "Kids Are First" course run through Anglicare as part of the Family Relationship Centres (which are the precurser for the Family Court). I was absolutely shocked by some of other participant's stories.
A child has to be old enough and feel safe enough to be able to verbalise abuse, unless there are visible marks.
The Family Court does get it wrong.
Quite often.

And as far as the Child Support Agency is concerned. I think that its principle idea is right, but it assumes all parents are basically decent people.
If you have an unstable violent partner and he receives that Child Support Assessment, I believe it greatly increases the risk of harm to the ex-partner and the children.

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 14, 2008 4:31 PM

thelynathdiary June 14, 2008 3:36 PM

Chris, my point is that the woman who has told her story here has made some serious allegations as well as discussed aspects of a minor's personal life. She is also visible and identifiable by her appearance, and presumably contactable, albeit indirectly, because she is advertising for male friends.
Her daughter's identity is hardly protected, nor is her spouses who deserves the presumption of innocence too.
I think the whole situation is fraught with issues and I am suprised that the post was allowed and discussion has continued about what may be a live situation.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 14, 2008 4:21 PM

There is not anonymity in place with a photograph visible. Anyone can look at the photo and know who the woman is and then in turn know who the husband was and know who the child is.
There is no anonymity here at all, it is a public forum. If what she is saying is not true she is leaving herself open to serious legal action and that will affect the child. If what she is saying is true anything could happen. There is no anonymity.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 4:11 PM

reading these blogs is a much better way of getting to know someone than simply reading their profile. true colours certainly shine through in the heat of the moment.

as for the topic of remaining friends...it all depends on the definition of "friends". if you have children together then it is imperitive that you at least remain on good terms.

Posted by: kisskat at June 14, 2008 3:59 PM

Perth,
Your perogative to rear your children your way, my three were bought up with a known discipline, cross your mother and you had dad to deal with, their children are brought up under the same rules and so until the eldest grandchild used the "I have rights" thing, taught to her at school by a person who should not have been left out of her femminist cage, far less teach children her private philosophy, being all of 7 years older than them. If someone laid a hand on mine they would have felt the full weight of me, but against this person I was powerless as she had the full weight of the law on her side, her abuse was much worse and long lasting than a smack on the bum from her dad.
OG.

Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 3:58 PM

Lynath, what a load of garbage. If she had called the police she would have had him arrested. The family court is not so silly to award custody to an abusive father and how do you know how old the child is. Same with the child support, go to the support agency, it's denying the rights of the child to not do otherwise. Wallowing in self pity is not the way to protect a child.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 3:39 PM

Marcus, I do believe you are genuinely concerned but there is anonymity in place no names have been used.
To remove the post and discussion is to once again sweep it under the table when it is a subject that should be talked about. What better place than a relationship site blog? If this situation was more out in the open then perhaps people would not feel the shame or stigma often attached and this would then allow them to seek help sooner...or even better, recognise the signs before it gets out of hand and to know they are not alone.

What people may not realise is that the abusers themselves also need help. They are not all violent monsters to start with. I don't think anyone knowingly gets into a realtionship with someone who is abusive on the first date.Something has happened to them as well to cause their reaction to whatever the stress is or cause of feelings of inadequacy. That is not an excuse, but an explanation.
This can be considered a family problem not just that of the individual abuser.

Not everyone can do as Malsie did and just leave immediately, although one child makes it easier than someone with more.

Abuse does not always start out as dramatically and as early as Malsie's. It may be years of emotional abuse before any sign of physical occurs.

What is the ideal in out society? Happy couples married with children/ Marriage ceremonies instill the "for better or worse" "in sickness and in health"
So then Alcoholism, for instance, is a disease. Mental illness is a disease. What sort of person would we be if we abandoned our sick partner? What sort of commitment is there if you leave at the first sign of 'for worse"? There is pressure from many areas to maintain marriages for the sake of the family.
The emotional abuse may also start slowly. It may be minor which at first may cause a fight between the couple followed by a 'make up' and perhaps long times in between.

Meanwhile children arrive and a life is lived and further and further entwined.
When more abuse happens it is often put down as 'stress' or "tiredness" and the abuser is often sorry(maybe genuinely)

Would you abandon an otherwise happy and stable enough relationship and a whole lifestyle because of one incident that you can't really define as abuse? Not usually.

And so it goes on, but the abuse is becoming more frequent.

The person being abused is steadily having their self esteem eroded. The person is confused...perhaps the abuser is also saying nice things as well. Therefore they think " I must be imagining the abuse" or " I am not at all like those silly women who stay with an abuser. But yet I feel so bad."
They try harder to please the partner and walk around on eggshells.

If drugs or alcohol and mental illness become factors then there is a big chance that physical abuse will enter the picture. Again it may start with one incident followed by a honeymoon period and the abuser declaring love and sorrow. Hard not forgive especially if their are children. Who wants to break up a home?
If the problems of the abuser are such that they need to control completely to make themselves feel adequate then other issues such as cutting off from family and denying access to money will occur.

By this time the person being abused in enmeshed in a life with the abuser and is often ashamed to tell anyone what is happening because it still does not fit the picture of the dramatic violent wife bashing abuser portrayed in movies, or they can't believe that this is actually abuse and not just how things are.
"Other parents yell at their kids don't they?"
"Other wives tell stories about their husbands comments and demands" It must be okay .
Some people go through life like this and nothing more comes of it and they settle into the roles.

Others react when the abuse escalates into physical violence and threats.

Others have been so beaten down by the abuse and have lost so much control in their lives that they have begun to believe that the attention from the abuse is love and they will state they love the abusers.

Others have been beaten down mentally and are paralysed by fear of the disturbed violent threatening person they live with.

OG I know those stories of police and other men teaching the wife bashers a lesson But punishing one bashing with another doesn't make sense and if anything probably made life worse for the beaten wife. Men often bash someone weaker because of feelings of inadequacy..imagine the rage after being humiliated like that.

The thing is as a society if we want to do something then we have to put the money into long term solutions not just short term bandaids. Safe ,affordable housing and long term support to start a new life is required.

It is no use telling peole to leave, when there is nowhere to go with a few kids, no job skills and no money and often no family support. No one should be morally superior when they can't offer a viable solution that is available right now.

Most mothers do want to protect their children and that is why they are sometimes willing to put up with domestic violence...to maintain a home for the children and because of absolute terror of being separated from them if they tell anyone what is happening and knowing they can't support their children financially.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 3:36 PM

I have brought my children up with the knowledge that no-one has the right to touch you without your permission. I do not believe in smacking, it is assault in my opinion and leads to violent adults. Both my kids are successful and happy, they both work hard to achieve their goals and have excellent negotiation skills in the event they are needed. If anyone had laid a hand on either of my kids they would have felt the full weight of the law.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 3:21 PM

I agree Marcus and wondered that myself. Unless the site has contacted the authorities themselves without our knowing. We are talking about child abuse here and no matter what the soap opera psychologists offer in way of support, it is still child abuse and the problem is not being addressed. Also this woman is still contemplating being friends with the ex and what terrible ramifications that could have on the child. In my opinion whether this child is with the mother and father or mother alone she is still in danger. If the mother is making this up for attention, the child is in danger.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 3:07 PM

Many years ago (30), and on another galaxy... when the father of my child first hit me and I was lying on the floor stunned that that had happened, a little voice in my head whispered "you deserve it." I thought that was weird, because I didn't come from a violent family, but definitely emotionally abusive. So I thought, "Oh, that must be so," and I actually stayed with him, because in my heart I did believe I deserved it, I was worthless.

However, the day I came into the room and saw him shaking our baby when she wouldn't stop crying, that was the end of our relationship there and then. I figured if I was damaged enough to believe I didn't deserve better, so be it, but I wasn't going to subject my child to it.

However, this is no judgement on anyone else's actions, as I agree things are not clear cut in life, and there is most definitely a degradation of the spirit that occurs in long-term abuse, frequently rendering the victim seemingly incapable of action (in much the same way as amber I think very eloquently described it).

There is that, and also the odd unhealthy ties that sometimes bind us to another, as I think istj described as some kind of "addiction". Either way, not as simple as some may like to think.

I don't recognise myself as the same person I was at 20 and have never repeated that pattern in my life, and nor will I now, I am positive. But I managed to get out of it much easier than some, and I wish anyone well in finding the inner strength to get out of any abusive relationships, and stay out.

Posted by: malsie at June 14, 2008 1:46 PM

Lynath@12.03.
All your points are valid as are all the ones opposing ones, what is wrong is a society that ties the hands of the people who can do something quickly and positively. Back when, if these men acted like that the men relatives (or even neighbours) would go and sort it out with or without violence, it was well known that a bloke that punched up a woman did not like being punched up himself, the police often responded the same way without any recourse back to them. Now even the threat of violence comes back against the person trying to protect the weak. I do not blame the weak or abused but a society that has become so weak itself as regards fitting punishment for the offenders, but would rather form another committee to discuss and make a report 12 months down the track and use valuable resources instead of spending them on something positive.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at June 14, 2008 1:25 PM

my ex thinks he just a good friend that he can turn up anytime, stay for days on end...we have been seperated for about 6 months and i want to be free to have friends for a coffee or just free to talk on the phone!...but he doesnt seem to want to move on even though ive made it very clear to him for the past 6 months and more that we are seperated and it is well and truly over...ive told him i want to move on with my life and ive been travelling for pleasure constantly by myself and having a lot of fun on my overseas trips visiting friends and family...but when i get home its the same thing...any ideas on how i can change this situation...p.s. im thinking of moving to another state...

Posted by: cutesmile52 at June 14, 2008 1:22 PM

I'm not sure why RSVP has allowed Brokenwing's 2 venting and probably cry-for-help posts to be put up. As has been suggested she probably needs to speek in confidence to the correct professionals.
If the unfortunate story is true it is excruciating and unfortunate and concerns a child and some serious allegations.
Offering advice is one thing but blog counselling is another. Because there may be a kid involved who could quite readily be identified and perhaps accessed it is completely unprofessional. The other side of the coin is that her abuse allegations are unsubstantiated and could already have lead to the man putatively involved being identified.
This is particularly serious regardless of the truth or other wise.
I would suggest the whole series of posts should be removed immediately.

Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 14, 2008 1:12 PM

Some of you have said that unless we have been in a situation involving violence towards a child, we do not know how we would react, but quite truthfully as a mother of two l know exactly how l would react. it would not be to stay, of that l have no doubt at all.
The bond between a mother and child (and this is MY experience) is an all encompassing one. For many years l put my life secondary to theirs, as they were and still are very important in my life. Their emotional and physical well being was paramount to me. That they chose to stay with me and not go with their alcoholic
father is a testament to the relationship that we have.
They have grown into adults who are happy, respectful, courteous and employed in careers that will take them as far as they want to go. Above all else, they are happy.
I defy any one to tell ME that l would not have acted were they abused physically by their father....................K

Posted by: auntykaz at June 14, 2008 12:40 PM

istj, this is the childs father not some random boyfriend.
You are saying that the childs father had no responsibility for his own actions...it is all Brokenwings fault

If Brokenwing had left him and gone through the process of the Family Law Court, this man would have had shared custody or access to the child. Who would protect her then?
Do you not think that Brokenwing does not feel excruciating anguish and pain everyday at the thought of her child being hurt emotionally and physically? It will haunt her forever, how much depends on her getting help for herself and her child, to allow both of them to come to terms with what happened and recover as much as possible.
The child is still young enough to have a great recovery and very happy life.
Compounding her distress with more blame and abuse is likely to send her into a severe depression.She is a victim, like her child is.

What seems straight forward and simple to you, was not the reality that Brokenwings found herself in after long term abuse.

Where will the child be without a functioning mother? With the father?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 12:33 PM

I can empathise, Amberlight...but not fully understand...however, I will never try to understand how a mother can go back to a house in which her children were abused. As you said the effects are on-going and life destroying. I see that as a teacher. It is the damaged children I deal with and most of the time the women return to the men over and over when there is no threat at all involved. It seems like an addiction...but not one I choose to understand. You do not have to say you are sorry. We are all entitled to have our own opinions and should be respected for that and not have cheap pot-shots about not being compassionate because they differ. That is abuse too...or bullying behaviour.

Posted by: istj54 at June 14, 2008 12:23 PM

roots&leaves at 4:30am posted

"Posted by: thelynathdiary at 10:52 PM:
istj and iaminperth, both of you lack compassion and the sort of understanding and insight that women of your ages should have.

What crap !
Reality bites."

Was it biting you just then, eh? And you were just passing on the compliment?

Posted by: timewarp1 at June 14, 2008 12:06 PM

iaminperth you are one of those people who read the papers or listen to the news and state "something should be done" or "They should do something" before going back to your pleasant life.
Firstly , who are 'they' that 'should be doing something' and what exactly is the 'something' ? "The Government of course"do I hear you say?
Which part of "the government" where, how and who are they with all these powers to fix everything?

These situations do not happen overnight.
It is not a simple case of a single isolated incident with a simple solution.
By the time this situation reached this point it was very ,very complicated for all involved.
According to the post of Brokenwing she asked him to live elsewhere. That was a brave step in itself given what her reality was. And he did leave so she did take appropriate steps to protect her child.

I presume you think that "taking action" would have been to take the child and leave or to call in Childrens Services or the Police who would have called in the Services.

In your world that is the "something".
What you fail to undestand is the consequences of taking either of those actions.
Without knowing her circumstances, I suggest that neither of those actions would have benefited the child or Brokenwing.
If she left where would she go? How do you know she has a family that could help long term? A womens shelter? For a couple days or weeks if there is a place available at all. Then where to? Public housing has a 10 year waiting list in some cities.
Then what? No money, and living on the streets in Winter with a child? Friends couches until they tire of you?
Keeping the child with a roof over it's head and in a stable environment appears the better option to me considering the father had left.
What about calling 'the authorities"? Again would they respond. They might although it could take some time. Then they might send out a 21 year newly qualified case worker with no life experience( they have difficulty retaining experiences staff due to burnout.
What if they became overzealous(no life experience remember) and they remove the child to a home or possible foster home.
Who would that benefit? You would have a child feeling terrified, abandoned and punished and a distraught mother.
Callthe police and have him charged? Possible..but it will be a low priority case and could drag on and who is going ot pay fees and costs. and he will get a rap on the knuckles.
Better to keep the child with the mother.

brokenwing your child is young enough to come through this without the dramatic lifelong emotional scars predcited by istj if it is handled well.
Do not make the child a lifelong victim, by making this define her forever.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 14, 2008 12:03 PM

Sorry istj, perth, eral,kaz and others,
You can believe what you like, but until you are in such a situation you have no idea how you would react.
Yes, in a situation where it's a "one off", it would be easier to deal with and you would take action quickly.

The trouble is for most women in this situation, is that domestic violence is an insidious thing that you live with for many years.
If you talk to people who have worked with domestic violence survivors, they wil tell you these women have been so "beaten 'down" psychologically over the years, it is almost impossible for them to think in any kind of rational manner.
When your life is ruled by fear, you are "on edge" all the time, you may have been told since you were a child you are worthless (and you believe it), you are made to feel responsible for your partner's anger and violence for years ("I wouldn't hit you/scream at you if you gave me more sex... were a better wife.... weren't such a bitch..."), how could you think and behave in the same way as someone who has never been exposed to this?

It is easy to stand back and pass judgement on someone else, but you have no idea, believe me.
Until you have experienced this situation yourself, or have a sister, child, parent or close friend living with ongoing psychological and/or physical abuse, you could never understand.

Of course, after a woman finally leaves, and she has had time to think, she realises just how crazy all this seems. She then feels guilty for ever allowing herself to be so degraded. If she has children, who suffered with her, she lives with that guilt as well.

As far as intervention is concerned, my sister was married to a psychologically and at times, physically abusive man for years. She finally left him around 4 years ago, but she still helps him out (he can't cope without her apparently)
Her daughter has been terribly psychologically abused by her father, I have spoken to my sister many times over the years, but I just couldn't get through to her.

She lives in central NSW, and a local person reported her husband to DOCS. DOCS did investigate, and despite the fact that my sister has taken her daughter to a psychologist on a number of occasions for her behaviour (a mandated notifier?), DOCS decided the case wan't that important as they have children who are in imminent physical danger, not just psychological danger.
My niece who has always been blamed by her father for her parents' marital problems, was then ostracised by her father, because "she must have said something to someone", so her life has been made doubley harder.
If DOCS had told my sister that they were concerned about the abuse, I know she would have left him sooner. But they didn't and so she doesn't seem to think it was so bad.
I am very concerned for my niece, she is many years younger emotionally than she should be for a 13 year old, but I can do nothing. I am 1200 kms away, I can't even be there to support her.

Not always as straight forward and easy as it should be, when you are in the real world.

And BTW, there are also men who live in abusive relationships, too. But few would be willing to admit it! If women get ostracised, by other women, what hope does an abused bloke have in our "blokey" country!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 14, 2008 11:50 AM

Just because I defend an innocent child and not her mother who was too busy, being such a good friend to her father, to protect her at all costs...I see too many of these mothers who seemingly can't be without a man at the expense of their children's lives and emotional, intellectual development.
It is wonderful that you can all gather around and support this woman...but what if he had killed the child? What would you be saying then?

Posted by: istj54 at June 14, 2008 11:27 AM

Here’s an inspiring thought for the day, if anyone needs one:
the beauty of a woman:
http://www.inspiringthots.net/movie/beauty-tips.php.

Posted by: riversong01 at June 14, 2008 10:25 AM

Sweetheartsearch, your profile looks great. If you're getting lote of kisses and not the follow-up emails, well, that's just the way it is in here - don't take it personally :)

Perhaps it's something to do with too many choices and people just shooting off kisses all over the place without much thought or follow through. Or maybe they don't have stamps and are hopeful you'll foot the bill? :)

Re the topic of heated input: there are many reasons why it's not always easy to do what one should. As Lynth said, a little compassion doesn't go astray, and as kisskat said, vicious responses are uncalled for, especially at someone who's obviously already suffered enough pain.

Yeah, reality bites and unkind people are a reality, both out there and in here. Seems the world is suffering from global cooling (of people's hearts) as well as global warming :) I prefer to make my reality a bit more kind. It's chilly enough this morning!

Posted by: riversong01 at June 14, 2008 10:15 AM

Like kisskat I have been staggered by the vicious attacks launched against her.
I'm sure she will regret probably for ever that her child was endangered so greatly and that she allowed the abuse to continue.

Can YOU ATTACKERS truthfully say that you would not have reacted similarly...you can't, because you have not been in precisely the same set of circumstances have you!
Give the girl a go..a hand-up;NOT a kick in the teeth yet again.
Hang in there Brokenwing and best wishes for recovering from such trauma.

Posted by: kurli at June 14, 2008 10:15 AM

Sitting around goo gooing people and doing nothing pro-active never helps any situation, in my opinion, look what happens and is still happening to children all over the world and particularly Australia at the moment. You only have to read the newspapers at the moment. To digress: I am often quite shocked and staggered at the way that people talk to each other when they are in a relationship and, according to them very happy. I hear foul language being shot out in an abusive manner, threats being made and this seems to be the norm. If anyone I was involved with spoke to me like that he would be told very calmly it was not acceptable and if it happened again out the door, thank you. I can't quite understand the level of acceptance in society today of this violent behaviour.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:40 AM

I think it is imperative to have a good working relationship with your ex where children are involved. I stress working relationship where each partner is treated with respect and therefore set a good example for the children. To go further my mother in law and I were good friends until the day she died as she is my childrens grandmother. We all attended her funeral and were welcomed by all the other relatives and have kept in touch over the years. I tend to believe a good strong family unit is extremely important for children and just because you have an ex partners you certainly don't need to have ex manners.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 14, 2008 9:34 AM

Back to the blog topic: "can you stay friends with your ex?" Brokenwings says NO. Others seem to agree with her (even if they think she should have left earlier).

What do others in singlesville think?
I agree with staying on civil terms, particularly if there are kids involved. However men with lingering friendships with ex girlfriends is a big turn-off for me. Not that I have any problem with them having friends of either sex. I am not a jealous person. But from what I see (on the whole though there may be rare exceptions) ex-girlfriends are different to normal friendships.

Once people have been intimate, it's an easy thing to slip into again if circumstances arise. From my experience, the boundary between men keeping ex girlfriends as "just friends" and FBTs is a very thin line indeed! Unresolved emotional attachments to an ex girlfriend makes it difficult for a man to move on and free himself up for loving someone new. (That's assuming they have that intention, which may not necessarily be the case!)

I've lost a couple of good (men) friends once they got into serious relationships. But that's OK - I could perfectly well understand the new woman's view. It was appropriate for me to step aside and let her share the man's emotional territority, as well as time and energy.

I don't think it's approriate for men and women to stay "close friends" with their exs - they need to make room for the new. Though I believe they should (try to, if they can) keep things kind and civil between them, especially if there are kids involved.

Posted by: riversong01 at June 14, 2008 8:49 AM

i am staggered by the vicious responses of some of the women on this blog! brokenwings obviously has & still is suffering from this experience, and im sure she already suffers from guilt for the choices she made in the past & the impact that may have on her child.
a little bit of compassion and a lot less judgment wouldnt go astray.

Posted by: kisskat at June 14, 2008 8:20 AM

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 13, 2008 10:52 PM
istj and iaminperth, both of you lack compassion and the sort of understanding and insight that women of your ages should have.

What crap !
Reality bites.

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 14, 2008 4:30 AM

Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 13, 2008 3:25 AM

Your being simplistic .
There are plenty of countries in the world that don't have television of the sort your describing .
Try the African war-zones for a change of pace, if you want to get back to oldschool 'human nature'...

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 14, 2008 2:55 AM

Only one word of advice for brokenwings...
Please, please, please don't tell that story in such detail to a guy on a date. It will be a real turn off. You are obviously very hurt and rightfully so, however you don't want to come across bitter or with too much undealt with baggage... Be cautious with what you share. I am naturally very open and transparent and have had to learn over the years that sometimes you can reveal too much to quickly or if ever at all!. There are some things ppl just don't need to know until you have built up total trust with them down the track.
I'm sure you don't blurt it all out on your dates but I just wanted to mention it incase you forget yourself and it comes gushing out. This can happen, especially when it's so current and alive in you and at the forefront of your mind...
Pls take this advice with the heart in which it is delivered - (born again friend)

Posted by: superwoman2007 at June 14, 2008 12:16 AM

thelynethdiary... your comment couldn't have been said better. I have come from abusive childhood which turned into abusive adult relationships so I agree totally about everything you've said.

Brokenwing- there is a light at the end of the tunnel and I'm proof of that!
Only time heals the hurts and it makes a much stronger person and who we are today if we allow ourselves to grow from our pasts.
A quote I love! "Look at your past. Your past determined where you are at this moment. What you do today will determine where you are tomorrow. Are you moving forward or standing still?"
Cheers...

Posted by: superwoman2007 at June 14, 2008 12:00 AM

I believe it depends on the relationship with the ex as to whether you can continue being friends. I've stayed friends with a few ex's because the relationship wasn't very intense or maybe as 'serious' as others. These ex's were occasionally with benefits . I think the friendship base was more important but the sex comes because you feel comfortable with each other, even if it's only average.
Then with other ex's who I've had a full on intense and 'in love' relationship with, I haven't stayed friends. It gets too complicated and hurtful for one or the other of you. It's unfair to stay friends with someone you've broken up with if they aren't dealing with it well. I think this prolongs the hurt for them and doesn't allow them to move on. They could always be in 'hope' that you'll change your mind and any kind word or gesture could be taken the wrong way. .... Good luck everyone... it can get hard out there!

Posted by: superwoman2007 at June 13, 2008 11:53 PM

Hi everyone! I have never been able to be friends with an ex. Either I still fancy him and find it upsetting to be with him without touching, or I'm fighting him off. If we were great friends we wouldn't have split up anyway.

While I'm here, can anyone tell me why I'm getting lots of kisses but very few follow up e-mails (after I've sent a postive auto-response)?

Posted by: sweetheartsearch at June 13, 2008 11:44 PM

Unless you have been in Brokenwings situation I don't think it is fair to judge her harshly. As Lynath has said, things are never cut and dried. Sometimes men like her ex are capable of violent retribution if you leave.

Posted by: jenjen57 at June 13, 2008 11:34 PM

According to her own post, she didn't and we're talking about child abuse here. Seems more like she ranted and raved but did nothing of any substance. I believe any issue of child abuse should be reported and the abuser dealt with. It has nothing to do with sympathy, it's child abuse.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 13, 2008 11:11 PM

brokenwings: By their behaviour shall ye know them. Jen is right. Listen to Amber. She's one of the wisest people here.

1) Get a lot of help, and don't seriously increase your stress levels now by adding the uncertainty of looking for a new man yet.

Go to the people who love you already, and ask them to spend extra time with you and/or your daughter. Bask in their love while your wounds heal.

2) Forget Perth and istj. They're just enjoying kicking you because you're down. Not the first time I've seen that. I'll say no more because I'd get censored.

3) And let me tell you about SCHLEMIEL. It's the name of a nasty game in Dr Eric Berne's landmark psychology book "Games People Play".

Schlemiel's game is to hurt you, and then ask for your forgiveness/friendship, and get it.

This game gives him (almost always a him) two separate emotional payoffs - the sadistic delight of hurting you (and/or those you love) and then the cop-out of getting away with it.

At each new round of the game. A game that he hopes to keep on playing forever.

Make sure he never gets either of those payoffs ever again, or you're unwittingly playing the game with him, and thus keeping it going.

All the best, kid. Bill

Posted by: timewarp1 at June 13, 2008 11:04 PM

BW, I hope you don't rant and rave and vent your rage in front of your child. That would be further child abuse on your part. I have to agree with everything Kaz said, she is always very down to earth and honest in her comments.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 13, 2008 10:57 PM

istj and iaminperth, both of you lack compassion and the sort of understanding and insight that women of your ages should have.
I am appalled at your comments and especially istj telling Brokenwings that she is responsible for her child being bashed by her own father. Brokenwings is not responsible for that act..only the person who did it is responsible.
Brokenwings did the right thing and did immediately seek to take the child out of danger.
Neither of you appear to have the faintest idea that women from ALL walks of life and education standards find themselves in these situations. They are never just straight forward cut and dried situations as so many factors contribute to the circumstances.
Women like Brokenwing are not all weak and stupid ...they are often very smart and strong but long term initially insidious psychological and emotional abuse to cause the victim to become dependent by loss of self esteem and self worth lead to physical abuse.
Women like Brokenwing need the support of other women and men..not further abuse hurled at them
Brokenwing I am very happy that you have broken the cycle and have commenced a new phase of your young life. There is happiness to be found for you and your daughter and you are doing all you can to ensure that.
I agree totally with allyour comments about not wanting to be friends with people who have betrayed you.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at June 13, 2008 10:52 PM

Brokenwings, l feel sorry for the hand that you have been dealt, however l must agree with istj and perth, how on earth could you let your ex abuse your child???
There is no excuse known to man or woman that lets that happen.
Harsh these criticisms may be to read and digest, however the safety and wellbeing of children is paramount as a parent.
That he did this is disgusting to say the least. That it was not acted on (presumably)
is absolutely inconceivable to me.
And still l shake my head at the crap that some women put up with in the name of love.............................K

Posted by: auntykaz at June 13, 2008 10:31 PM

Brokenwings, I seriously think you need psychiatric help before you damage yourself, no one could just allow all these things to happen to them and to an innocent child unless they manipulated some of it in my opinion. Really, get some professional help in a hurry. Why were there never any child abuse charges laid, why didn't you ever report him, that's disgusting.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 13, 2008 9:55 PM

Amber - absolutely wonderful advise to Brokenwings.

Brokenwings - please read carefully what Amber has written. She is a very insightful woman. And I only wish you well for the future.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 13, 2008 11:39 AM

Hello brokenwings,
Sounds like you are feeling really 'broken' at the moment.

It must be very hard for you to start to feel okay again after such sad and soul-destroying years of your life.
It sounds like you were together for a long time, and during that time you and your daughter experienced much psychological and physical abuse from your ex-husband.
It sounds like you gave him so many chances to get up, heal himself and take responsibility for his life, but he refused to do so and opted to blame everyone else for his circumstances.

And he repaid your love and loyalty with the ultimate betrayal by having affairs and giving the "best of himself" (and I have to say that it doesn't sound like his "best" was all that great) to someone else.
And to make it even worse, after all those years, he then left you for someone who was supposed to be your friend!

It is amazing how often we women think (and abusive blokes like to believe it too, because it get them off the hook!) that all an abusive bloke needs is understanding (he can't help it if his emotions get the better of him and he 'has' to lash out either verbally or physically!) and a "good" woman to help him heal. This may well have been what your friend was thinking, silly deluded woman!
Society also has in the past perpetuated this myth, especially the churches, which is why domestic violence is so common in our society.
It's a load of crap of course, what a violent and aggressive man needs to do is to take responsibility for his pain and his angry reactions and seek help to heal himself, then one day he MIGHT actually be deserving of a woman's love and loyalty!

You must be feeling absolutely exhausted with all these feelings whirling around in your mind.
The horrible thing about abuse is that long after the relationship is over, the abused person still focuses their life on the abuser.
Even though he is no longer with you, he still exerts some control over your life in your mind and your thoughts, until you decide that this is enough, it is over and you are going to move on with your life

I am no expert brokenwings, but I think you need to stop focusing on him, even by being happy that "karma" may be "paying him back" for all the pain he has caused you, you are still focusing on HIM, by having "revengeful" feelings and not trying to start to begin to heal yourself and your daughter.
You must never agree to be friends with him, you should aim to be civil, but "friends" will give him the feeling that he can still intrude on your life!

I am not trying to be a "smart-arse", I did not experience your life and all the abuse you have survived, but that is just it brokenwings, you have survived, you are a survivor (at least physically) and now you need to focus on you and your daughter's psychological healing.
So you can be a "survivor" emotionally as well.

Women who survive domestic violence often experience Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and keep reliving their experiences in their heads, even many years after they are no longer with the abusive partner.
There are special counselling services for Domestic Violence survivors, the counselling is free and there are special child counsellors to help your daughter.
I honestly believe brokenwings, that you need to focus on yourself becoming stronger emotionally and you need to focus on your daughter. She needs YOU as a role-model to show her that women can survive such experiences, and to help prevent her getting into the same situation herself in the future. (Statistics show that women who grow up with domestic violence have a much highr risk of getting into a violent relationship themselves)
She may well blame you as she gets older for not protecting her from her father's psychological abuse, she may not understand that you were simply not strong enough to protect her at the time.
Counselling will help both of you to deal with these issues and maybe avert disaster for her in the future.

Have you had a settlement yet? Believe me you will need all the strength you can muster to deal with all the legalities!
Domestic Violence Services sometimes have legal services attached to them, it they don't they can give you places to go to, for legal advice and help.

Brokenwings, you are still 'broken'. You are not ready for a new partner yet, because you are not the best you can be. YET.
To attract a man who will respectand love you as an equal, you will need to learn to respect and love yourself first. No one can heal you, you have to do it yourself.

You are a survivor, you will heal. So will your daughter, but you will both need help to do so.
The best 'revenge' against someone who has broken you , is to heal, become a whole person and live a happy life!

Good luck with your future, I know your "brokenwings" will heal and I hope you will soon be soaring across the sky like an beautiful eagle!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 13, 2008 10:51 AM

brokenwings...you may think that you were a good friend to your ex, but you were never a good friend, or mother, to your daughter to stay with this animal who, as you said, bashed her...your daughter should have been taken from you...what an appalling confession to make. Your daughter will carry those emotional scars for her whole life...and you, who should have protected her, will be responsible.

Posted by: istj54 at June 13, 2008 9:32 AM

brokenwings79 June 12, 2008 6:58 PM

Caveat emptor?

Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 13, 2008 7:31 AM

Good points tassiedude about what kids are exposed to these days. It will indeed be interesting to see how it affects them .... maybe it will make them more aware but maybe not.

Posted by: woodnwine at June 13, 2008 7:25 AM

I am so sadend to hear some of your stories. It makes me sick to my stomach that there are those men out there that could possibly do such horrific things.
Firstly it just goes to prove money dose not maketh the man! I think you are all very courageous and extremely brave people.
Secondly this whole society thing is quite disturbing. I can remember when I was a child, Sunday nights used to consist of "little house on the prairy, The Walton's and The Wonderful World Of Disney". Look at what we've got now!
Big Brother, CSI, Biggest Loser Etc. I am quite disturbed at how our next generation will view certain social behaviors.
Please don't get me wrong. I don't believe in censorship. I am quite able to make an educated decision to turn of the crap that I don't want to watch.
However, shows like "Sex in the City, Life begins at Forty and Two and a half Men" etc only promote the glorification of middle aged promiscuity and a single life. I was unfortunate enough to catch an episode of Home and Away the other day. It's writers seemed to think that teenage rape, petty crime and infidelity was acceptable viewing these days.
Sometimes I think I should have been a "caveman". I would have sat on a rock and caught some fish or picked some berries. The only woman I would ever have seen would be the most beautiful creature I would ever lay eyes upon (no matter what she looked like) and the only multi-media available would have been of the cave paintings I made of her and I holding hands.
Oh! sometimes I think ignorance would be bliss!
I was also done wrong by. I'm not going to give details however it was just plain nasty.
Does your skin harden, are you more wary, do you question your sole? Yes I think so. Can you be friend with your ex? No I don't think so. At the end of the day all you have left is your dignity, your passion and your resolve never to let that happen to you again
Not all men are bastards, there are a few good ones left.
Strength and honor to you all!

Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 13, 2008 3:25 AM

Good point father2young and buider55. Perhaps some men like to stay on good terms with the ex to not jeopardise access to the kids, rather than any intentions they may have towards her.

Posted by: riversong01 at June 12, 2008 10:53 PM

I think "can you be friends with your ex" simply comes down to the reasons a couple broke up.

if they simply decided there wasn't enough spark there and parted ways mutually and with respect for each other, yes they can be friends, even best friends in some cases.

however, in situations like mine... where my husband cheated on me with hundreds of womens for many years throughout our marriage, bashed me for six years, constantly accused me of cheating despite the fact i didn't even keep male friends to try and appease his paranoid delusions, he forced me to work in a physical job on a busted leg so he could buy drugs and sat at home playing playstation day and night, AND still expected me to do all the housework while working and full time uni....

when he started bashing our daughter after years of verbally and emotionally abusing her, i still didn't end the relationship, i merely asked him to go stay with a family member until his violence and drug use was under control.

at which point a few weeks later, one of his mistresses contacted me to say he wasn't really trying to get into rehab, he was really shacked up with her and that he'd been screwing other women for a very very long time.

and you know what my sick husband said to me (after several weeks of denying the cheating and saying if i so much as looked at another man, he'd kill me and the guy)?

"oh, let's be friends".

um wtf?

he bashes me for years, he cheats on me for years, he bashes my daughter, he abused me in so many ways, he refuses to pay any child support despite having a good job while I had to give up working because between uni and suddenly becoming a single parent i had no time to work, he steals EVERYTHING i own to pawn for drugs, he ran up thousands of dollars of debt in my name and conned my parents out of tens of thousands of dollars (their ENTIRE life savings), he threatens me and goes around to his mates pretending he had done nothing wrong, pretending he never hit me, pretending he never cheated on me (even though he actually told them he wasn't cheating on me being with the mistress he was introducing as his girlfrined to them BEFORE HE AND I HAD EVEN SEPERATED), and after all that, he has the audacity to say to me "let's be friends"?!?!?!

so i told him quite bluntly (nearly word for word) "[hubby] I have always been your friend. I have been there for you, I have supported you through thick and thin, I have never stopped being your friend, but how f*****g dare you ask if we can be friends? you have NEVER been my friend, you have done nothing but betray me and abuse me. you ask me to be your friend while you carry on an affair publicly after I have been a perfect loving wife whose only fault has been to spoil you too much??? how dare you ask me to your friend. you have never been my friend, yet i have always been yours, you keep backstabbing and betraying me and you have the cheek to ask me to be your friend? ....

if you want to be my friend, then ACT like a friend. you don't need to ask me to be your friend because i never stopped being one.

but all you're trying to do is appease your guilt for being a pathetic, backstabbing cheating creep.

just go away. if you want to be friends, then act like a friend. go to rehab, get off the drugs, get counselling for your violence and end your pathetic affair and do the right thing by me and your daughter, and then and only then, do you have the right to ask if you can be my friend".

sadly, he has only got more abusive. when i gave him a second chance, he betrayed me even worse, running off with someone i thought was one of my best friends and trying to turn my group of friends against me (which thankfully he failed and only made him hate him and his mistress).

what i find really pathetic is it is usually the backstabbing, abusive, violent cheats who run off with some homewrecking skanks who are the creeps who turn around to their poor loving dedicated faithful wives, and say "can we still be friends".

the answer in that situation is of course not. friends don't screw each other over that way. if someone came up to you and punched you in the face and said "can we friends" you'd tell them to go screw themselves. so why on earth should someone who has done something infinitely worse think they should be allowed to ask if they can your friend???

ultimately, where there is no betrayal and a relationship is broken off mutually, yes a lot of people can still be friends. some can even be really good life long friends.

but where one person has betrayed the other, especially when there is violence and cheating and betrayal, involved, then the answer is no. they can't be friends.

if the perpetrator of the abuse and cheating wants to be friends, then they have to be willing to repair the damage they have done and be willing to do whatever it takes to make it up to the person they have hurt.

and if they can't be bothered doing that, then they have absolutely no right to even ask to be friends.

the very fact that they can do something so awful and then turn around and say "lets be friends" is just further abuse of their victim. it rubs it in their face how little they value friendship, and is only a reminder of the betrayal.

and in the worst cases like mine, when even after years of abuse, after the cheaiting is discovered, i STILL offered my husband friendship, taking his calls when he was threatening to kill himself because his mistresses turned out to not care even remotely about him as much as i did, lending him money when I was struggling on a pension with no child support, while he had a full time well paying job, visiting him hospital when he was injured, when his skanky mistresses wouldn't visit him.

while i continued to be his friend despite his ongoing betrayal, it was just plain abuse him asking me to be friends... BECAUSE I WAS BEING HIS FRIEND ALREADY, while he continued to be an enemy.

by asking if we could be friends, he was saying the perfect friendshiip i was already giving him meant absolutely nothing to him and rubbing it in my face that he had no intention of ever acting like a friend to me.

at least there is one comfort in it all - his current mistress (my former friend) has lost all her decent friends over her sick behaviour and my husband has lost everything that should be important - a loving wife, an innocent child, his family has a gutful of him and can't stand him, he's lost all his decent friends, he's lost his job, he has no posessions - in fact all he has is a skank who is never there for him, lies to him constantly and treats him like utter crap.

karma can be really good sometimes.

Posted by: brokenwings79 at June 12, 2008 6:58 PM

i still keep a positive relationship with my ex, mainly because of the kids, and i see no reason to mess up their lives any more than they have already been hate and hurt are too negative, i think we all need more positives in our lives

Posted by: builder55 at June 12, 2008 5:56 PM

Well enough about ex's. Why do they still command so much of our time. Use your new freedom to get out and do your own thing without having to answer to anyone. You may find that "something in common" person and then any time you speak to the ex, you can talk about how much fun you're having, how you are always going out and meeting really interesting people. That would show the ex's true colours. (And piss them off good and proper). Gotta go. Going out.

Posted by: truthandlove1 at June 12, 2008 4:57 PM

amberlight - it's good that you can laugh at yourself.

Posted by: woodnwine at June 12, 2008 11:14 AM

Actually WNW come to think of it, even if it wasn't directed at me, perhaps it should have been!
I have been 'droning' on a bit lately!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 12, 2008 9:32 AM

amberlight - not referring to you at all, it was just coincidence that my post appeared immediately after your's.

Posted by: woodnwine at June 12, 2008 8:50 AM

In many respects it is wise to be on friendly terms with the ex, especially when children and property are involved. Negotiations from argumentative or negative standoffs can be costly both emotionally and finacially. Often reason goes out the window. I believe that when it is over it is over and no going back. When matters are resolved there is no need to be bitter and twisted as this usually carries on into the next relationship (baggage). Both parties need to respect that the relationship has finished.. It all comes down to maturity, setting boundaries and moving on. A person should not be guided by the ex's point of view when it is right/ or time to move on, it is an individual decision and you will know when it is right for you.

Posted by: father2young at June 12, 2008 12:45 AM

Sorry WNW,
For offending your sensibilities.
You could just scroll past, of course!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 12, 2008 12:07 AM

OK WnW.. So what would you like to talk about?? Nothing much happening is there?? A girl has a break and hopes to come back to some interesting banter but??? Ah well.. Have a good one all... Cheers.."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at June 11, 2008 1:17 PM

Could someone fix that cracked record please .....

Posted by: woodnwine at June 11, 2008 11:24 AM

Hi minniel,
Sadly it sounds to me like your ex's idea is to keep you as a "friend" as in the the last 3 categories of riversong's blog.
If he really wanted to be a true 'friend' and not just use you a possible 'back-up' in case his younger flame decides he is not that exciting after all, (now that she has to put up with the not-so-romantic reality of day-today stuff) he would not be discouraging you from attempting to look for someone else!
How patronising of him to tell you that you "it is too soon for you", when it obviously wasn't too soon for him!
In fact, he was obviously already involved with this woman while you were still together!

If you have a really good look at your past relationship with him, warts and all, you may find that this attitude is really nothing new. He may well have always been quite patronising towards you.
He may well have always had the attitude that he knew better about what was best for you, than you did!

My ex had this amazing attitude after we split up, of ringing me up and thinking it was okay to "dump" on me all the awful things that were happening in his life. He would often be on the 'phone for 30 minutes or more telling me how his business was going, how hard he had to work, how this person hadn't paid him, etc.
He would then cheerfully hang up, after not even bothering to ask about how I was, while I was left emotionally exhausted!
He would then turn around and say something really nasty about me to one of our kids only a few hours later.

After thinking about things, I realised that our relationship had always been like this!
I had always been the person who he complained to about life, and seemed to dump all his negativity on, and he had never been interested in what I was feeling, even when we were together.
So the next time that he rang, and every time after this, I just cut him off politely every time he started. After while he got the hint, although he will still try sometimes even now, over 3 years after we split up, if he can!
Old habits die hard, I guess.

You need to stop worrying about what your ex thinks minniel, you don't have to have his approval to begin to look for someone else!
He no longer has any right to comment on your life, he gave that up when he left you!
You and only you, will know when you are ready.
Although I think it does take longer for most women to 'put themselves back together' after the demise of a long-term relationship, even if it wasn't all that great or we weren't all that happy. You need to perhaps think of the consequences for the next person, who may well be a decent bloke, if you don't do the 'hard yards' emotionally before you start looking.

Minniel, you need to take all the time YOU need, it is now all about you!
It no longer matters any more what your ex thinks is 'best' for you!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 11, 2008 8:30 AM

riversong01 at June 11, 2008 12:15 AM

Don't worry, his behaviour is quite common, and within the norm. Men like to spread their love around.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at June 11, 2008 7:47 AM

OG, I've had the "I want to STAY friends", not the "I just want to BE friends", but I think it meant "I still want to get into your pants!" :)

Posted by: riversong01 at June 11, 2008 12:15 AM

River.
Been there and done that too, does it really happen to women too?
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at June 10, 2008 11:34 PM

Riversong01 - i can relate to few of your last 3 suggestions.

Minniel, mixed signals and words are confusing becuase that is what i am experiencing as well. The opposite maybe hurtful but you know where you stand. i do not know which is better. Definitely it is easier said than done.

Posted by: dcs123 at June 10, 2008 11:16 PM

minniel, "let's be friends" is used to not burn bridges (in case you might need them again), as well as not to make committments (in case you don't know).
Sounds like you and your ex still have a lot of issues to resolve before you can move on.

Come to think of it, the "friends" line is used for many excuses eg:
"I just want to be friends" = you're fat/ugly, go to hell.
"I just want to be friends" = I like you enough for free dinners, but I'd rather kiss frogs.
"I just want to be friends" = you're ok to fill in the time while I'm waiting for someone else
or
"I want to stay friends" = I don't want you but I still need you to fix things/talk to/come running when I need.
"I want to stay friends" = I don't want to lose you and want to keep my options open.
"I want to stay friends" = I’m not sure if this is gonna work, so better keep you as a back up just in case.

Posted by: riversong01 at June 10, 2008 10:38 PM

minniel,
now you know what a Yo Yo feels like.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at June 10, 2008 9:33 PM

Hi, My ex who left for another younger woman after 24years with me is quite insistent we remain good friends cause he says he doesnt have many friend and would hate to lose me altogether! To be very,very honest I am sort of happy for this as have not yet quite been able to accept his leaving and can't cope with the thought of never seeing him again. Friends say he is keeping his options open but I am pretty sure he is in love with the new lady and really does want to hav eme as a friend. However, any suggestion of me finding a new man meets with comments such as "it is too soon for you" or "you have to be very carefull" Yes, it sends conflicting signals to me and possibly stops me from being free from him ...what do you think..should I give myself a bit more time as it has only been a few months.

Posted by: minniel at June 10, 2008 8:57 PM

Truthandlove – well put. What’s the use of picking scars? Better to move on. Being polite and civil is one thing, but can you be “friends” (ie connected, close etc in the true sense of the word) with your ex?

Short answer – NO.

Posted by: riversong01 at June 10, 2008 8:08 PM

My wise Uncle (RIP) once told me; if you pick at a wound, it will never heal and will cause more pain and complications. If you let it heal, the pain will decrease and only a scar will be left. The scar may remind you of the hurt, but will also prove that it didn't kill you and that you survived.

I only remembered his words when faced with the prospect of losing my best friend and lover forever. Remaining civil for the sake of children seems the fair thing to do. However, if you had a friend who betrayed you, would you remain friends with them?

Holding on to any glimmer of hope only denies you the chance to find new happiness. The probability is that the ex doesn't really care about your emotional state as they have already burnt that bridge of responsibilty.

Hope you all find the peace that will open your heart to the rest of the world. There are some really great people out there. You just have to look beyond the fog in front of you.

Posted by: truthandlove1 at June 10, 2008 1:29 PM

amberlight - what about when you need a fire permit?

Posted by: woodnwine at June 10, 2008 11:32 AM

Thank you Jaspercat and thank you so much Jen for your support, it was really appreciated.
I guess in the end we are much stronger for the experience and at least we will truly value a friend and partner who really does love and care about us, when we eventually meet him!

And ERAL ,
E: You know you're getting old when you need a fire extinguisher close by when blowing out the candles, just to put out all the spot fires.

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 9, 2008 9:26 PM

I guess it depends on the person and the type of relationship you had with them.

My former husband and I couldn't remain friends, simply because it would probably jeopodise his current relationship, end of story, regardless of the fact we share children together.

The last person I was in a relationship with we have remained friends. Simply because before we actually took the step into an intimate relationship, we had a pretty intense discussion regards our needs, wants and expectations. One of the things we both agreed on was to remain friends regardless.
This guy was a great friend before we were lovers, and a terrific friend now. We don't see each other all that often, but still keep in touch either by phone or email each week, and occasionally meet up at parties or meet for lunch or coffee if either is in close proximity to the other.

I'm probably in the minority, I don't have a problem with a partner being friends with their ex, especially if there are children involved. I don't think it's fair or reasonable to ask a new partner to cease seeing people from their past who may have become just good friends years ago. To my way of thinking it shows a lack of confidence and immaturity.

Posted by: ellabella25 at June 9, 2008 8:06 PM

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 9, 2008 1:31 PM
Thanks for your wise comments Waterlilly.

I agree that tere are different reasons why people accept this behaviour in their lives. I believe in my case, there was a lot of ego stroking going on... and more importantly I had stepped into a situation that had "unfinished business". My ex and I had a "do you untake this person to be your married wife/hubby" ceremony!... a glass of champers, a hug goodbye and got on with living in the NOW... I dont feel the need to talk to him that never worked when we were together! :)

Posted by: sommerrain at June 9, 2008 8:03 PM

Man, i hate these damn essay questions - which can't they just be multiple choice?

A: "You can't eat your cake and have it too"
B: "You can have your cake and eat it, too."
C: "You can have your cake and eat it too - the only trouble is, you get fat."
D: “You know you are getting old when the candles cost more than the cake.”

Posted by: eatsrootsandleaves at June 9, 2008 4:29 PM

Thanks WaterLily,

I was lucky indeed - lucky that my ex was a decent bloke and the separation was not as a result of infidelity or abuse. I'm not sure how I'd manage those scenarios.

My ex has never had a problem with any of the men in my life since, nor I his - I think that's reflective of the level of confidence we have in ourselves more than anything else. His second wife hated my guts but that was her problem, and she's long gone now!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at June 9, 2008 1:50 PM

Posted by: sommerrain at June 8, 2008 5:00 PM

Those "boundaries" are essential to moving on as two independent people in two new lives.

Anyone who continues to barge into their ex's life with calls, visits and abuse, can be seen to be using manipulative, dominating, power-playing tactics over their ex, and their ability to move on and start anew. These behaviours can also be seen as harrassment.

Anyone who continues to allow this kind of behaviour to continue long after the relationship is severed is either a fool or a weakling. There are those who say they put up with the interference because it is easier than putting a stop to it. Others who fear that the ex will take their kids away, or I have come across one or two guys who seem to get their jollies from thinking that two women are "fighting" over them.

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 9, 2008 1:31 PM

Posted by: victoriadownunder at June 8, 2008 8:08 PM
You have been very lucky, and very insightful, in re-structuring your relationship with your ex. I am on fairly good terms with my ex. It took a while, but has been worth it.

Although, it is very difficult, when there are also so many people out there who automatically place serious mistrust upon you and your "friendly relations" with your ex, just because they maintain that they cannot understand how you could possibly stay friends with someone you have live with and slept with etc etc.

Posted by: waterlily58 at June 9, 2008 1:22 PM

Amber - you truly are a wonderful person and to have gone thru what you have gone thru and still be strong well you are an amazing role model for lots of us women and men out there who have all been burnt by very bad break ups. I took 9 years of a very unhappy marriage to "get out" and even though it was my decision it is very hard when there are children involved. I had a very bad controlling relationship after that so then the self esteem really went thru the floor but we do have to pick ourselves up dust all the rubbish off and start again no matter how hard that is. What I cant stand is people who have been thru divorce who say they know what we are going thru - well they dont unless they have children. I am sorry to be rude but they never have to deal with the "other side - him or his family" ever again.
When you have children they are in your life whether you like it or not for the rest of your childrens life and you have to really try and stay friends because of that.
Listen stay in there. You will find your happiness because it is really truly deserved. Thankyou for sharing your story because it made me feel a lot stronger.

Posted by: jaspercat at June 9, 2008 7:31 AM

jenniferhi at June 7, 2008 8:12 AM

Jen, I know exactly where you're coming from and I agree with you. I'll admit the first few months after separating were rough, but my ex and I sat down and brokered an agreement as we still had many years of parenting to come. For the benefit of our daughter, we were always civil but as the emotion and anger subsided (as we both got on with our new lives) we came to realise that we both still had the same qualities we had when we first met, and that we genuinely liked each other as people.

18 years later, my ex and I are still in regular contact, his new partner and I get on fantastically, and I consider him a beaut bloke and one that I respect greatly. As far as ex-husbands go, he's as good as they come!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at June 8, 2008 8:08 PM

What if you start seeing somebody else, is it fair to the new person that you remain friends with your ex? NO! ... I finally broke up in Jan this year after two years of ex wife invasion - I tryed to figure out why my boyfriend (who I met on RSVP) would not create boundaries around his ex wife. She was still invited to all family occasions by his brothers wife, and would call him at ungodly hours and get us out of bed on a Sunday morning with any excuse she could find. She would walk in his front door as though she still owned his house (they had been divorced for 6 years), and then proceed to scream at him while we sat on the lounge stunned into silence. Not once did he protect the relationship from her invasion. He said they were "friends" and she was still part of the family... be careful of the actions of you new partner, if they are not creating strong boundaries to protect your relationship RUN.

Posted by: sommerrain at June 8, 2008 5:00 PM

Thank you so much Jen for your kind words.
My older boys stayed with my ex. My daughter decided to live with me and I insisted on shared parenting with my youngest, right from the beginning.

I did stand up for myself, we did our settlement by mediation, which was very hard and very emotional. I opted to take less than I could have because at the time, it was so stressful on the kids.
My youngest son actually believed that I had taken money out of his dad's bank account soon after I moved out, when my ex was so interested in the household accounts, that he wasn't even aware that the mortgage payments came out of this account every fortnight!
My older boys actually believed their father's complaints that I was "screwing" him, even though he conveniently left a parcel of land off the property settlement that was given to him by his father, and I opted not to make a fuss about it.

The settlement was 55%/45% his way despite this and he was still unhappy about it. I then paid him child support, with him being seen as a single parent for my older son for 12-18 months, because he refused to acknowledge to the CSA that I made any contribution to my son's life. This was despite the fact that I paid for his driving lessons, bought him a car, fed him his main meal every day and did all his washing for him. My son didn't stay at my house for 30% of nights, because he wanted his own room and I was renting a 3 bedroom house, so the CSA saw me as having no input into
his life.

Now that the "dust " has settled, my boys have realised in their own time, that their father wasn't exactly up-front with them about things.
I now have my own house again (well the bank and I do, the former has by far the greater share!) without needing to coerce one of my children to sign up to the mortgage with me (I only found this out months after the settlement, when my eldest son who was only 20 at the time, told me after realising the eventual consequences of what he had done; believe me I felt so bloody guilty, I cried for days!) so I no longer have to move on someone else's whim and I am able to give my younger son more stability.

The freedom to control my own life has been really empowering. I no longer have to justify to anyone, when I buy something, (or I am a bit short to pay the electricity bill and have to opt to wait for the red one to come before I pay it!) although as you would know there isn't always a lot left for "extras".
Although it is a habit that is hard to break as my daughter pointed out to me recently, when I was explaining to her why I had spent money buying a 'cheap and cheerful' bookshelf for the lounge room!

I try to no longer feel 'guilty' about everything and have tried to work through my life and the choices I made, the reasons I made them and not 'blame' anyone.
I know now I simply wasn't strong enough to leave my relationship any earlier than I did. And although I still feel very bad about the situation of my eldest son and his future, I realise now that also had nothing to do with me; it was his father who expected that of him and the consequences are between his father and him.
I found that is probably the hardest thing to 'let go' of, that feeling of always having to be the instigator of family happiness and harmony between my ex and our children, which was a huge part of my former life as a wife and mother.
Now I am simply a mother, no longer responsible for everything that is 'not right' in everyone's life!
I have found 'guilt" the hardest emotion to leave behind, it has always been part of my life from childhood.

Thank you Jen, yes I did just turn the big 50. I didn't really celebrate. I am waiting for my eldest son to come back from overseas in another 3 weeks, then we'll probably go out for a bit of a celebration.
Never really been big on birthdays, it's not something I'm used to.

You are right of course, it is something I really should change about myself!
I AM very important too!

Hi Perth,
I know I am certainly not alone. There are lots of women on this site who I am sure have experienced (or may be even are still experiencing) a similar situation and loss of confidence in themselves. I am certainly not looking for any sympathy. I think I have done quite well!
Sharing our stories can help others out there, men and women (I am sure there are men who have had partners who treated them in a similar disrespectful fashion) to not be so hard on themselves and to know that life can get better! Eventually!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 8, 2008 12:46 PM

P.S. Amber, I didn't need him to tell me I was a good mother or anything else...I already knew I was.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 8, 2008 11:40 AM

Oh Amber, I think you were married to my husband!!!!! You're not alone, happens to a lot of women. Mine has all the trappings of wealth and success, the girlfriend, the mercedes cars etc. I am starting a full time job on Monday to help teenager with uni fees etc., Me, the kids, the dog, cats, kids partners, their friends all happily come and go in our independent/dependent lives. We have a nice home, which is happy and relaxed. We all support each other and love each other. I think that is what life is about and as Jen asked me previously, no I am not friends with my ex but he pops into our lives every now and then and we are very civilized and friendly and then we just go back to what we are doing. I don't think he has achieved anything, but then again he does, so we're all good.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 8, 2008 11:39 AM

One other thing Amber - I do hope you celebrated Yourself recently on your 50th Birthday. (Just noticed you have recently had it.) Don't ever forget YOU deserve!

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 8, 2008 7:48 AM

Hi Amber, 11.24 am.
Thankyou for sharing your story. Stories like this really are so sad. And you know what, it is sad for HIM too. I mean he obviously wasn't happy either. Did the children stay with him? Did you at least have a decent settlement to start again with? I do hope so.

You obviously have done a lot of self-work and got yourself in a good place. Fabulous! Now I hope you find that wonderful connection with someone to continue the journey.

Good luck Amber.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 8, 2008 7:44 AM

Hi Jen,
Actually no for some people.
As far as my ex is concerned our 22+ years and 4 children together meant nothing.
He never considered anything I gave to our relationship as worth much at all.
He never during our years together, even affirmed me to our children, as being a good mother.
You know those ingham chicken ads where the mother seems to make mistakes but her partner reminds their kids what a great mum she is? Well no matter how hard I tried, my ex could never say anything that indicated that he actually valued me as his partner and the mother of his children.
In fact our whole relationship was about how there was always something wrong with me, how I couldn't cope. (Of course I know that wasn't true, the fact that I worked night shift part-time for nearly all our married life often going 30+ hours without any sleep and raised our 4 children with very little input from him, meant exactly the opposite! Sure we all get overloaded at times, I couldn't always be a "superwoman", but that was my lack of coping ability, it had nothing to do with a lack of support from him!)

When I became severely depressed in 2003, this was evidence to my ex that I was even more "defective" than he had given me credit for and he quite happily pointed out my lowered emotional state to our children, proof of course, of what an "unstable" person their mother was!
I realise now, that my depression was due to the fact I just couldn't take his lack of love or emotional involvement any longer.
He, on the other hand had obviously decided that I could no longer give him anything he wanted, but he did want our house.
He wasn't about to leave (the house that is, although he had long ago left our relationship, if he was ever actually in it!) so he spent the next year or two completely disregarding me, until I had no choice but to try to find some self-respect and leave him.
Which I did in April 2005.
He then went to our children after I told him I was leaving and told them that if they went with me, they would always have an unstable life moving from house to house, and that he needed them to stay with him so that he could "keep our family home".

It's a bit hard to try to have much of a friendship with someone who so devalues any contribution you've made to their life! Even giving birth to our children was nothing special. Hell, his mother did it 5 times!

Of course, on looking back, I realise now, that I should never had allowed myself to be treated so disrespectfully in the first place! Even from the very beginnings of our relationship I was always last, his emergency services involvement, his sport in fact his life in general, was always more important than me.
So of course, as time goes on (and the old saying "familiarity breeds contempt" which is so true if they have no respect for your feelings in the first place!) and you are seen as just "the wife", you become even less worthy of respect because you are longer even interesting.
So I guess it became easier for him to devalue me. So by the time I left, he had no feelings for me at all, other than contempt. (I suppose, I was a "nuisance" because I took so long to leave!)

My excuse for all of this was that I was 23 when I began going out with him and I had no examples in my life of what a happy relationship actually was.
I just wanted someone who didn't drink like my father did, who wouldn't hit me and who appeared stable and reliable.
Treating me as if I was important and actually mattered (in other words, loving and caring about me!) wasn't a high priority on my list back then! But then I guess, I didn't even see myself as anything special or someone who was worthy of love and acceptance.

Of course, 27 years later I have a completely different view of myself than I did when I met him.
I don't regret my marriage, because I have four beautiful children to show for it, but I do regret the fact it took me so long to realise that he never actually did love me and to gain any real self-respect.
If only we knew back then, what we know now.
Many of us would have made entirely different choices in our lives!

Posted by: amberlight58 at June 7, 2008 11:24 AM

Hi Priss, No, I was talking about friendship, I must not have written it correctly. We still talk when necessary re children and get on very well on that level. He has never been close to his children being too busy etc., and they are not close to him which is a terrible shame. But this was friendship I was talking about and I don't want to be his friend. We all maintain a very good relationship with him, very cordial, very civil but he is a very distant person who pops in now and then when he is back in WA.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 7, 2008 10:25 AM

Perth - 9.59pm. See, that is hard for me to understand. I'm gathering yours was a long term relationship like mine was. This was the man you loved and chose to have children with. Ok, things go wrong, relationships break down, you grow apart, you break up. BUT isn't there still a little of 'something'. You say you wouldn't waste your time thinking about him if not for the children. And the children don't want anything to do with him. That's sad I think.

I encourage my kids to be in constant contact. And even though it can be strained at times, I believe it is important to do that.

I also can't see I guess how someone who as been such a major part of your life, you can simply just cut off. I couldn't do that.
I don't know but maybe it will change when the kids are all much older and moved on in their lives and away from home. Decisions are then theirs to be made.

God, I even care about the ones I have had short term relationships with, and hope that they are travelling ok in life. (Not that I'm in contact.)

An example - I just had my 50th, and my ex was there. Some people thought how strange. Yet some thought how wonderful.

Who knows - and I know each break-up is different. The hurt can be unbearable for some. I suppose we knew it was over but could still respect each other as the parents of our children, and be friends on a different level.

Jen

Posted by: jenniferhi at June 7, 2008 8:12 AM

I don't want to be friends with my ex. I want to be civil to my ex and include him in my childrens lives for the kids sake. But, if I didn't have children I wouldn't waste any time even thinking about him. My ex is one of those extremely successful people financially in life and likes to brag about it, he lives in a huge house with his partner and they both drive Mercedes Benz and he owns a yacht. Neither of his kids want anything to do with him and I'm just not interested. He has never married his partner and doesn't seem to intend to. You have to wonder at times what the definition of success is. My daughters and I went shopping today in the sales and came home with some great stuff, each showing off the purchases in a parade, we are planning a really good night out to see "Sex in the City", both daughters have great partners, good jobs so I guess it all comes down to 'what is the definition of success'. I frthink we are all better people just seeing how silly he is and not basing our lives or being affected by his decisions. His partner can't stand me, has never met me, has never spoken to me, but hates me with a passion. Unbelievable scenario really, we just get on with our lives. I am glad he moved to another state and I don't dislike him at all and I am very welcoming and friendly on the odd occasions he turned up to see his youngest. However, he has chosen his life and that's good and I hope he is happy and that is that.

Posted by: iaminperth at June 6, 2008 9:59 PM

Reading through the post I should also add that most of my relationships have not ended well, however the 'friends' discussion has usually come a little later once we both had calmed down and had time to think about it :)

Posted by: stitched at June 6, 2008 9:34 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with tassiedude1. I definitely couldnt handle talking about those things with any of my ex's. I dont want to know. I guess for me personally saying 'we can still be friends' is more of 'we can still be polite and civil when we see each other, but I won't be calling you to catch up anytime soon'. I only speak to one of my ex's on a regular basis, and that is because we both realised early on that things wouldnt work out. I dont speak to any of my ex's from serious relationships

Posted by: stitched at June 6, 2008 9:24 PM

Sad little story forthcoming ...

My husband and I separated when our sons were aged 9 and 11. We kept everything very civil and maintained a good friendship which lasted right through a silly affair on my part, resulting in the birth of my daughter (the boys' father even volunteered to be there when she was born, as her own dad had scarpered) ... right until the boys were 17 and 19 and my ex-husband acquired a new partner. She was childless/childfree, however you want to phrase it, insecure and jealous of the boys and therefore of me. She gave my ex an ultimatum: either he stopped speaking to me or she left him. Guess which option he chose.

My younger boy was very badly affected, especially as his quasi-stepmum was openly hostile to him and even induced his father to behave poorly towards him as well. Two years down the track, the situation is unchanged and my son has had treatment for depression, which he certainly didn't need before his dad met the new woman.

I'm not angry about it ... really! ... just extremely sad. As my dad put it: "These things didn't happen in our generation. You youngsters have such complicated lives."

Posted by: missrule at June 6, 2008 6:43 PM

friendship may be too much, but ig you have had children, you need to come to a civic arrangement, you need o do what is best for the children, and most children...in my experience, want to know both of thier parents. The majority of sane parents DO want to be involved with thier kids. So Civil, professional is probably the best way to look at it.

Now I said most and majority, in my experience, as someone will come back and tell me about really shitty ex's who are bad for the kids, and a kid who hates thier ex parent....possibly because the ex they live with does not control what they say in front of the child, so the poor child gets involved in all the nastiness!!!

The ex boyfriends I have had, well not really worried about the friends thing, they were not part of my children's lives, so they are all called ex for a reason. I have only maintained friendships with 2, as they were actually better friends anyway.

Have a lovely day all, a short week so am off coasting ...jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at June 5, 2008 7:44 AM

Remember the best times you had, and the most intimate moments of your relationship. Remember those times when you used to lie in bed with cold feet and how he would get you to put your feet behind his knees, he would gently squeeze his legs and warm your toes.
Now imagine him doing all those things with his new partner.
Friends can talk about anything. Would you feel comfortable talking about those things with him.
If you could truly be friends then you are a better person than I. All I can do is to be civil.

Posted by: tassiedude1 at June 5, 2008 2:20 AM

Further to my earlier posts: friendly but maybe not friends.

who would have thought that the Corrs would have something in a lyric that would apply so fittingly with reference to an ex - "forgiven, not forgotten" :-)

Posted by: ynotalice at June 4, 2008 10:38 PM

LOL!!!!!!!! NOOOOO!!!!!! LOL!!!!

Well I guess it depends.......if any of you have seen my comment on attached people then you'll know why.......:-)

My ex actually lives down the road from me with his new pregnant wife....hey it just gets better for me.......LOL!!! It's all fine - couldn't care less, don't bump into him and yet wait for it - he STILL has my mobile number and home number.......what the???

I've moved on and am happier now than I've ever been.

Thank god for my sense of humour........

Posted by: missysterious72 at June 2, 2008 9:11 PM

In an update. I have decided that it is inneither of our interest to stay friends we actually went out for dinner together and discussed this. (With the knowledge of her partner) She still doesn't wish to disclose 'our history' with him. I thought it best that we move on. Yes Virgil so I can pursue a relationship with someone and so she can grow with her partner without me in the background.
Thank you people for helping me to see what I was blind to.
We are not enemies and will say hello at times.
We will just get on with our own lives.

Posted by: tomidb9 at June 1, 2008 2:43 AM

Friends after a relationship it can happen but make sure you are over that person other wise it is another world of hurt waiting to happen.Get on with life meet new people let's face it if you were meant to be together you still would be and if it hasn't cost you anything or lost except maybe a few years then think yourself lucky.Give it time but don't waste anymore time thinking of what could of been you will only end up regretting it.

Posted by: fingermark at May 31, 2008 3:53 PM

Thanks for the welcome back, Jenjen :)

Posted by: wraecca at May 29, 2008 9:55 PM

fistfullof flowers

I would leave well alone if it was me, specially where there is a child involved.

Posted by: virgil at May 29, 2008 6:05 PM

Fistfullofflowers, Yes I think it is a bad idea to contact her again. She has a child now, and no point in complicating your or her life . You are thinking about her because you are lonely and unsettled in your new life. If you had a partner tomorrow would you still think about your ex? Probably not.

Do not apologise for burning bridges..that was the right thing to do and you should be proud of yourself.

Sydney is a bit hard to break into but it is possible to make new friends and there are lots of single girls looking.

Young Ladies of Sydney...this guy is gorgeous and single and a gentleman too.
What are you waiting for?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at May 29, 2008 6:05 PM

I broke up with my ex on New Years Eve 06-07 very quickly and harshly with alot of questions left unanswered, as i was at the end of my tether with alot of problems happening at once.

I left Townsville, back to Sydney (part reason was to make sure i'd never see her again) but lately, all i think about is her.

I know its been over a year, and she got back with her ex and had a kid to him. He was a jerk to her before i came along, and i guess he learnt his lesson, in that he didnt know what he had til it was gone. I did know what i had though.

We were good friends before we got together, and i think thats why i keep thinking about her.

Now my question is (obviously), do any of you think it would be a bad idea to try and talk to her again, or at least apologise to her for being a ummm, 'bridge-burner'?

I miss her as a friend, but not as a partner, and i find it hard to find friends these days, and in Sydney...

Posted by: fistfullofflowers at May 29, 2008 5:11 PM

K ..... ?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 29, 2008 8:10 AM
Woody, your sentences are getting shorter...............K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 29, 2008 5:07 PM

great point Virgil as I am in exactly that situation.
I being the dumpee. But we both agreed on the friendship and yes it is like a relationship without the intimacy.

Posted by: tomidb9 at May 28, 2008 5:51 PM

tomidb9 that sounds to me like a win/lose situation to me, she wins, as in possibly retaining the parts of the relationship that matter to her, you miss out on the intimacy but continue to be around.

She is free to date, and presumably have sex with new partners, while you stick by her, denying yourself the opportunity to find a woman who will be your partner in all aspects of a relationship.

If it was me, I would say, this doesnt suit me, so either the intimacy returns, or I will leave.

Posted by: virgil at May 29, 2008 9:59 AM

lifebegins - fact is often stranger than fiction .............

Posted by: woodnwine at May 29, 2008 8:59 AM

Great story, lifebegins47....

Posted by: malsie at May 29, 2008 8:33 AM

K ..... ?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 29, 2008 8:10 AM

Funny flip side to this is the following story….
A good mate of mine split from his wife of 9 years and 2 kids. They both felt the magic had gone and they wished to move on, very amicable and a good friendship remained in tact. Time passes and he gets a new woman, she is just lovely but very insecure about the friendship. He works very hard to reassure her and she settles down eventually and becomes much happier and secure when they decide to move in with each other. Over time her friendly approach develops into a good friendship with the ex and reciprocal invitations as a couple to dinners and kid functions eventuate. She even gained the confidence in this arrangement to pick up the kids for visitations, have coffees and chats with ex, all good. That progressed to quick lunches and then girls nights out together……you know where this is going……the 2 exes are now living together and deliriously happy and in love. My mate had many many girlfriends over the next few months, he needed to, and now has a new partner who accepts that he only has a cool and distant relationship with his exes. And he will always pick up the kids…..
Cheers

Posted by: lifebegins47 at May 29, 2008 1:14 AM

Kaz.
Probably the hardest thing for a woman is to understand the male way of thinking. Rarely do (real men, let the furies befall me) men think that way. Kaz I read these blogs, listen to the heart break of people, read the platitudes of either side of hurt, and think, it's happened, get on with life, retrospect will destroy you.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 28, 2008 9:50 PM

Virgil and tomidb9, how do you get past the feelings of wanting to be with the person you were involved with on a more than friends basis when you are, for want of a better word, the dumpee ??
Is it maybe a bit of wishful thinking on your behalf that they may change their minds, or is the friendship of that person so very important ??
How do you then move on with your solo life ?? ................K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 28, 2008 7:03 PM

great point Virgil as I am in exactly that situation.
I being the dumpee. But we both agreed on the friendship and yes it is like a relationship without the intimacy.

Posted by: tomidb9 at May 28, 2008 5:51 PM

Hard to disagree with most of what Virgil says (28/5, 12.36) I'm sure its not just me who finds that trying to remain friends does prolong the agony. Of course I was the dumpee, and it was she who suggested remaining friends. Yes, I hoped that maybe that would lead to some sort of reconciliation, but realised pretty soon that it would not happen.

But what choice do you have in such a situation? Say, "no thanks" and become bitter? Avoid contact at all costs? You have shared some wonderful times (and some not so wonderful, obviously!) so to try to ignore the past seems foolish, even if its difficult.

I don't think it can be a win/win situation, but all our circumstances are different, aren't they?

As for the FWB part - is that just wishful thinking, or a condition of friendship?!!

Posted by: sofaman99 at May 28, 2008 2:30 PM

virgil - could also be the other way around.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 28, 2008 2:04 PM

When relationships break up, is there one person who usually wants to be friends?

Is it the dumper, or the dumpee?

My most recent partner wanted to break up, I didnt, she wanted to be friends, I didnt, so we had no contact for a while, then back together again, for a while, till I left to come here.

So maybe the dumpee holds out on being friends, because maybe that was what the dumper wanted all along, call it friends, then most of the trappings of a relationship, just no sex.

So, if friends it is, then FWB is the go.

Posted by: virgil at May 28, 2008 12:36 PM

Good point, something I hadn't considered.

WE is being very presumptuous of me.
I want them to be happy and build a strong relationship together.
I am not jealous or vindictive so I wouldn't think of sabotaging the relationship.
But you are right he has every right to know of our past and now.
(if they parted NO I wouldn't go back with her)
Our relationship is much stronger as friends than it was as a couple (we argued etc personal stuff and nothing to go into here)

Posted by: tomidb9 at May 28, 2008 2:22 AM

compassionatejoe, women want to know and feel that they are the only woman in your life..the special one. If you have a trail of old girlfriends that you keep in contact with, then they may well feel disappointed (not necessarily threatened), not so special ,and have feelings of doubt about your sincerity and their position in your life..Knowing that someone has had past relationships with unknown persons is acceptable, but being confronted with a real person- not so much.

Why risk a current relationship by holding on to the old?

Old romatic partners are in a different category to friends. It is warning bells if a partner wants to get rid of your platonic friends.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at May 27, 2008 11:27 PM

tomidb9
there is something wrong with your emphasis on "WE" as in "we would never do anything ot harm her relationship." That implies that you feel entitled to have a say even though you state you are no longer partners.

Do you really think this guy is going to trust her when he finds out that she has already been dishonest with him and made a fool of him by ommission? There can never be three people in a relationship with only two of them being able to see the full picture and having all the facts.
You are stating that you 'are fine with that" but isn't that a bit arrogant to not allow the new guy to have the same choice?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at May 27, 2008 11:15 PM

Thanks Jenjen57 as the 'new' relationship is only into it's 3rd week she is still getting to know him and is uncomfortable about telling him yet. He has already told her that he believes I have feelings for her, she told him we are just mates.
She has asked him if he is uncomfortable with her seeing me at times and he is fine with it.
I have only met him the once watching the footy on tv, sharing a few beers. We got on well similiar interests and sense of humour.
If ur wondering why 'we' didn't click. I seperated in Feb this year and still had issues I needed to deal with. (since resolved!)
We also had a few rocky moments due to this but she has helped me through heaps. Do I still hold a flame for her? She is a very special friend and I would never harm or interfere with her happiness at all.

Posted by: tomidb9 at May 27, 2008 10:14 PM

Posted by: virgil at May 27, 2008 2:58 PM

Hi Virgil, yes, I totally agree re the good character of the individual remaining friends with ex partners. During my relationship with my ex partner I always had a fair level of respect and admiration for he and his ex wife (and still do even without the contact of either parties) for the way they both parent quite successfully 2 wonderful children that they should be (and no doubt are) very proud of.

As previously mentioned in one of my blogs on this topic I sadly don't have any friendship/contact with my ex,even though our parting was quite civilised. I miss the friendship part of the relationship very much as we had a wonderful connection intellectually as well as our shared sense of humour. I still miss the children very much too. But I guess, as probably reflected in others blogs, it may be alot harder than I realise in staying friends with the ex - if there ever was that possibility down the track. I think the suggestion from another blogger (ynotalice I think?) of being friendly versus friendship is definitely a very mature approach and also agree that it is dependant on the nature of the breakup.

Kind regards

Miss P, Jac

Posted by: misspriss01 at May 27, 2008 9:42 PM

Nice that you are able to be good friends without any dramas tomidb9. I wonder if things would be different if the new BF knew your history ??

Hi wraecca :) Nice to see you here :)

Posted by: jenjen57 at May 27, 2008 7:04 PM

It depends on the people simple as that.
My ex GF broke up with me recently. Simply telling me she just didn't have the same feelings. We had a very honest relationship and she politely gave me space afterwards.
We kept in touch she has a 4 yr old boy whom I love. (from a previous relationship)
We never got any real 1 on 1 time.
When she told me she had met someone.
I told her I was so happy for her and would babysit if she wanted to go out.
I did so with no dramas and we have since shared the odd movie and a game of badminton.
I have had a few beers and get on well with her BF he knows we catch up and trusts us both.(He doesn't know our history and I am fine with that)
'WE' would never do anything to harm her relationship and have a very dear friendship.
I have no problems and accept that sadly some things just aren't meant to be.

Posted by: tomidb9 at May 27, 2008 5:04 PM

I think it shows one to be of good character to be seen to be friends with ones ex.

I wonder when ones ex girlfriend has a great deal of admiration for ones ex wife, whether that is entirely desirable, but as they both reside in WA, there doesnt seem much harm in it.

Posted by: virgil at May 27, 2008 2:58 PM

I think that, as so many others have already stated, it depends on how the relationship ended. Some people just grow apart. But if you've been through a lot of experiences together, both good and bad, started off as friends, and have parted ways amicably, I don't see why you can't remain friends with your ex. I have 2 ex's. One I wouldn't spit on even if he was on fire (I'd get out the marshmallows instead), the other I'd help out if ever he needed it. It was the life inside the relationship that influenced my feelings in that way.
It probably also helps if you don't live too close to each other, either.....

Posted by: wraecca at May 27, 2008 1:57 PM

I've stayed friends with all my ex-girlfriends who still live in Sydney, but as I don't see any of them every year even and I'm not very close to them I would be worried if someone was threatened by our friendships.

Posted by: compassionatejoe at May 27, 2008 1:02 PM

I am good friends with my ex husband. I think it has been better than when we were together during the last 8 years. Other exes? Well depends. What ended it, what happened during the course of the relationship. If there is other people involved in their lives. If you do share children. If you can continue to seethem without giving into what you don't believe in.

Posted by: tori71 at May 27, 2008 12:27 PM

In an ideal world I think it would be nice to stay friends with your exs .... so long as there was nothing like violence or abuse involved. If you had a connection with someone it seems a shame to walk away from that completely. What would future partners think though? Would they be comfortable with it?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 27, 2008 9:24 AM

laughsandtalks at May 25, 2008 11:55 PM, Marcus, it's admirable that you show due deference to the natural pecking order... other than that, you're just a grub!!

But I mean that in the nicest possible way... Cheers!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at May 27, 2008 1:27 AM

Thats the million-dollar question...one which I ponder everyday. Every break-up situation has its own headaches & consequences. In my situation it's a resounding 'no'...I could not possibly function on a daily basis if I kept contact with my ex-partner. She (my ex) was at the time quite keen to give the friendship a crack...but I "the dumpee" would be stepping into a world of personal pain & torture if I even considered such a rookie mistake. Thats despite an un-blemished record & there being no ill-feeling between us... while thinking only positive thoughts of her as a person. But 2 1/2 years later today, without any contact still...I believe I made the correct decision. It certainly has taken all of that time to regain my nerve & composure again...to finally be in a position again of even considering a relationship. Im sooo pround of myself for just "hangin in there"...I kept telling myself your still your still only 30...don't ruin your life over one person. I may not have trusted or spoken to anyone for 3 months...but I sure as hell didn't turn the blow-torch on myself by attempting a friendship with someone who doesnt want to be with me.

Keep it real, Stu

Posted by: thespritelyjet at May 27, 2008 12:32 AM

I just got that from my commiment-phobic boyfriend who I dropped after I spent 2 1/2 years loving him, but can't see being friends - it hurts to be demoted from the girlfrind who was told she was loved all the time to 'friend'. My friends don't treat me like that, they really do love me and I know that I'll have a future with them! Can't see being enemies, but not a friend! Also, not fair to the new person, should there be one.

Posted by: revives at May 26, 2008 5:52 PM

Bob, who's going to behave? Should imagine it will be you because afer all Marcus is Marcus and he'll only behave when he's good and ready. Think I've said it before that underneath all of the puff, etc, I'm sure there lurks a nice person. Could probably be putty in the right person's hands!! Joking Marcus.. or am I ??

You just keep humming your Cougat song Bob.. Obviously in your sub conscious Mr? Hmm.. Was it really that long ago? Yikes..

As for the swinging distance..Had a stint as a softball coach for a while, way back when? Just another snippet on moir!!!

Cheers..."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at May 26, 2008 5:40 PM

A lady of a certain age wearing Collingwood regalia enters a sex shop and asks the guy;
"dddyou sssell thththe vvvvivberating sssex tttoys hhhere?"
Man; "Yes we do"
Lady; "Ccccannn yyyou shshshow mmmmeee hhhoww ttto turn it off?"

Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 25, 2008 11:55 PM

Good one Marcus...you made me laugh:)))
That was Friday night...I didn't see you in there.

Posted by: istj54 at May 26, 2008 5:22 PM

Ah G,
Your'e a good sport, luv your sense of humour, funny thing I can't get that old Zavier Cougat song "Brazil" out of my head for the past month or two. lol. Your'e too close to Marcus, he knows your'e within swinging distance, will behave
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 26, 2008 4:02 PM

Thanks Marcus. Coupla good laughs.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 26, 2008 2:15 PM

Hi Bob, very astute my dear.. Guess you could say I've been busted.. Damn!!! BUT...I don't wear Collingwood regalia..(said with tongue pointing and a smug grin) so even though I may be of a certain age my friend Marcus couldn't have been refering to me could he??? So.. you behave too!!!...."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at May 26, 2008 1:59 PM

Didn't they make a movie about that?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 26, 2008 1:49 PM

laughsalot71, your daughter will do as much or as little work towards HSC as she wants and is able to boyfriend or not.
In my opinion she is more likely to be distracted thinking about the boy and being unhappy at not seeing him. A classic Romeo and Juliet situation...much for her to think about.

Don't worry things will turn out. I wish there was not so much pressure and build up placed onto kids and their parents for year 12. The final results do not define their whole life for ever after.(which is what they are led to believe)

Your daughter will become a mechanic.. relax!

Marcus, ewwwww.....

Posted by: thelynathdiary at May 26, 2008 1:35 PM

purpleray I agree. Better a clean break so everyone can move on.
I met a man once(yes, even me Marcus) who is not only friendly with all his ex gf's he socialises with them and their new partners in a group.
I can only imagine the vibes felt and the thoughts crossing each mind of each guest while they sit politely having dinner together.
It would actually be very fascinating to attend ...in a sick sort of a way....lol (sorry )

Posted by: thelynathdiary at May 26, 2008 1:25 PM

G, that exclamation point seems very unsteady, really, should you be telling the lad to behave,lol.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at May 26, 2008 12:59 PM

Marcus..... behave !!!! ..... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at May 26, 2008 12:00 PM

It only works for the dumper not the dumpee. The dumpee always wants to get back with the dumper and agrees to being "just friends" to get hang out time and an opportunity to turn you around,

So my simple answer is No. Not for 6 moths or so. Then maybe you could hang out if you BOTH have truely moved on.

Posted by: purpleray at May 26, 2008 11:34 AM

OK, let me try to straighten this out a little.

My daughter has had bf's previously, that I have never had any issues with and I have done the adopt a son thing, had them stay over etc and already had her heart broken, it has never been an age issue until she recently tried to turn it into one to play the guilt card on me with recent events.

At the start of the year after a school meeting, we had a big sitdown mum/ daughter talk and both agreed that she should concentrate on schooling this year and that is all this is about for me, for her to achieve want she wants.

It's been hard enough for her to go through high school wanting to do mechanics and coping all the flack from both males and females.

Boys will still be there in a few months but from my experience it's hard to go back later and redo your education to achieve the goals that you want.

As for my side things, last time I checked talking was just that and one kiss was just that despite all my friends telling me to go for it, right now I am not going to go there and it is because of the age thing.

Posted by: laughsalot71 at May 26, 2008 8:43 AM

Laughsalot7, if my maths is right, isn't the guy you are seeing 21? And isn't that one year older than the guy who is interested in your daughter ?....I think I'm with Lynath here, it could be a concern having that guy around your daughter.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 26, 2008 7:55 AM

thelynathdiary May 25, 2008 6:00 PM

If you meet an interesting mother and her daughter you have to be mindful of your manners. It is polite to do the mother first.

Same rule applies to sisters; consider in order of seniority.

A lady of a certain age wearing Collingwood regalia enters a sex shop and asks the guy;
"dddyou sssell thththe vvvvivberating sssex tttoys hhhere?"
Man; "Yes we do"
Lady; "Ccccannn yyyou shshshow mmmmeee hhhoww ttto turn it off?"

Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 25, 2008 11:55 PM

Laughsalot - In terms of your views on disparate ages etc with your daughter and her boyfriend, welcome him into your home and semi-adopt him, nothing will make him seem boring as quickly as Mum's acceptance.

As a wildchild myself my much older mother (she had me at 40 old in those days) welcomed all boyfriends in from 16 onwards.

Biker type aren't badboys when they are chatting with your mum over tea and scones, then helping to change lightbulbs, rockers were never so cool when mum has them in discussion on terrace whilst they help potting geraniums... make them part of the family, the accepted soon loses the appeal that the even remotely forbidden engenders...

The only one my mother approved was a total b@stard that shattered my heart (pretty easy at 18) - her question "what on Earth did YOU do?"
So add in some balance for both your sakes!
Good luck!

Posted by: firelightlady at May 25, 2008 8:30 PM

laughsalot, I thought it was the age difference that was the problem - must have misunderstood. I wish her well with her HSC. I was hopeless with concentrating at school, and no one bothered to push me to achieve more either, so it's lovely that you care. My daughter, on the other hand, was conscientious and goal orientated from the moment she popped out of me I reckon! No idea where she gets it from actually....

Posted by: malsie at May 25, 2008 6:02 PM

laughsalot71

If you want your daughter to settle down then just say "yes" to her seeing the 20 year old. Once you do it won't be half as much fun and will probably fizzle out quickly(as many do at that age) The three years at that age is nothing really anyway.
If you refuse the situation could blow up into a big drama and is more likely to create an atmosphere or situation which could jeopardise her HSC
Chose your battles with kids...the thing is, if she rebels, what are you going to do? Only make restricitons on things that actually matter and secondly that you can do something about if not obeyed! By actually matter I mean asking the question "Will it really matter next week, or next year" or "what is the worst outcome of this happening and is it really that bad?"
I would be more inclined to worry about the guy you are seeing being around your daughter, They are only a few years apart aren't they?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at May 25, 2008 6:00 PM

Fire, that has always has always been my thought with younger men.. always want kids and totally different expectations.

So far it's been very different and we'll just see where it goes, it's still early days and I'm keeping an open mind.

Posted by: laughsalot71 at May 25, 2008 5:53 PM

Posted by: malsie at May 25, 2008 11:57 AM but is it really that much of a difference that it bothers you?

The age doesnt really bother me but she's doing her HSC this year and is looking for a mechanics apprenticeship at the end of it, so I just prefer her to concentrate on that at the moment.

I to moved out of home at 17, married by 19 etc double standards? - yes possibly but she has goals, I would rather see her achieve them than go the way I did and try to do it later on and that's been my argument up until the past 2wks when she tried to turn it into an age thing.

Kids, they know how to push the buttons lol

Posted by: laughsalot71 at May 25, 2008 5:33 PM

Finally some fun - on the age difference question I will say that I have and do date men up to 10 years years younger than me and it has worked well. They have great energy, I don't want more children and in general they accept my children more easily than older men and make no attempt to parent them...

They taught me a huge amount about life, laughter, love and sex when I was newly single and I genuinely thank them. They are surprisingly also more open on the height, body image, photo side of things - nowhere near as list oriented as their older counterparts.

One caveat - if they start getting smitten I tend to wind things down (all are good friends, two are married with babies, I get on with their wives and they will review the new guys lol). Mainly things begin to fail when it comes to having children, I am frankly a bit old for that. If a younger man is divorced, has kids and doesn't want any more children then let's go.

Much younger? 10 years is my limit. Much younger men in the 20's would be pretty vulnerable I think.

PS No I don't try and 'mould' them or change them. No my surname isn't Robinson!

Posted by: firelightlady at May 25, 2008 5:20 PM

It can be be done no question, however in my case all of my exes had no interest in being friends at all. The last one and i fought like mad at least twice a week. It was healthier to let her go. worked out fine for us.

Posted by: andy840 at May 25, 2008 1:20 PM

Posted by: jenjen57 at May 24, 2008 10:05 PM

Yes jenjen if the relationship ended without the acrimony associated with betrayal or abuse then I could see there being possibility that you could remain friends. But I still think that you would be more likely to put some conditions on the friendship in that case, even if they were subconscious ones. Because each of you moves on with your lives the other person will never play as important a role as if you had stayed together.

Each situation and relationship you encounter has to be judged on its merits, and I wouldn�t say I could never continue as friends with an ex but in my post I was more specifically referring to the relationship that I had with my ex wife. In that case, after the betrayal on her side, as I said I am happy to be on friendly terms but there is no chance that would ever extend to a true friendship again.

Posted by: ynotalice at May 25, 2008 1:02 PM

laughsalot, with regards your daughter: I know when you're younger 3 years can seem quite a big age gap, but is it really that much of a difference that it bothers you? I'd left home at 17, was living my own life and my parents had nothing to do with my decisions - I regard a 20-year-old for a 17-year-old as perfectly normal myself!
Good luck with your relationship by the way.
If it works for you, why on earth not pursue it.

Posted by: malsie at May 25, 2008 11:57 AM

I recently lost someone very dear to me and it was made a lot easier to deal with thanks to two exes... my recent ex didn't want me driving down to Rye alone and took days off work to do that for me, and my ex husband lives in Rye so he put us up for the night.

There we were - my daughter, her Dad and my ex all drinking, laughing and having a wonderful time together instead of dwelling on the funeral coming the next day... it probably sounds odd but it worked for me.

WB, your comment "I wonder if jealous possessive people are genrally unfaithful themselves..they can't trust you because they know they can't be trusted." is very interesting and worthy of further thought...

Posted by: victoriadownunder at May 25, 2008 11:48 AM

just would like to say that I have stayed friends with 3 of my ex partners. I have found in my experience that it takes alot of hard work but it can be done (I've been friends with one for 22yrs). He has a lot of respect for me & we are both very open & honest with each other & we always stay out of the bedroom or away from other intimate inclinations as this avoids any confusion. In the beginning there was alot of ups & downs but we worked at it & have a friendly relationship now. The second died, we loved each others company & enjoyed spending time together, it is complicated while we could not be together. The 3rd is at times very difficult & I'm in the process of working through these difficulties before perhaps returning RSVP.
What I have encountered is the problems that it brings into a new relationship. It can be difficult for some people to relate to the fact u have an ex coming around to see u when u dont have children together, insecurities can often come up also on all sides I've found. Having said that I have decided that the next guy I meet will be seeing me ex free, these days I'm only interested in one main man. I'm finally putting my ex's in the place they should be in my past.

Posted by: joyfulencounters at May 25, 2008 10:57 AM

yes, laughsalot7, I've had that experience too...of C...the very lovely guy who can't let you have any male friends...for all the guy's good qualities, his jealousy predominates in the end and he becomes a pain in the A. And in your example, there he was having secret 'coffees'...I bet you were a bit annoyed given all the hype you would have got from him about trust. I wonder if jealous possessive people are genrally unfaithful themselves..they can't trust you because they know they can't be trusted.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 25, 2008 9:50 AM

Posted by: woodnwine at May 21, 2008 2:33 PM - what then is your opinion of women dating MUCH younger men?

Every male I have ever dated etc through my lifetime (so far) has been my age or older. About a month ago I started talking/ seeing my first younger male (15yrs younger), at first I was doing my head in with the whole age thing as I have a 17yr old daughter but since then I have convinced myself to just go with the flow and see what happens, we are both adults and it's nothing serious at the moment. I have friends telling me to just go for it but I am in no hurry to go there and have told him so.

My kids have met him but the funny part was when I almost came undone last week when my Miss 17 asked again if she could go out with a boy (20). For the past 3-4mths she has had this request and it has been denied, this time round her arguemnt for the date was 'but if you can see 'X' why can't I see '20'? Thinking very fast, I just said 'because you are in two different age groups, you can't go to the same places as he can'. Her final response was that she can wait another 4mths. All I could say, 'if he's still waiting around for you then, he may be the one worth waiting for' (she had has other bf's, theyve just all been her age)

My conclusion - if your going to try the younger years, at least have a good reason why your younger daughter can't date older lol

Posted by: laughsalot71 at May 25, 2008 9:38 AM

I find that you can have a friendship with an ex but it depends on the circumstances and other people invloved.
A. I was married to my kids father for 10 years, who has since remarried. It was not a good break up - I just can't be friends with this guy and it's never civil so now I just don't bother trying at all.

B. I had a 2 1/2yr relationship with another guy that I am still great friends with 4 years later, we talk on the phone regularly to discuss his kids, my kids, work etc and he lives interstate now so it's not like I see him face to face alot.

Ive had one other serious relationship (C) since B that couldn't understand how we could still be good friends and in the end his jealously and mistrust ruined our relationship because I wouldn't give up a friendship.

I see it as how it ended and what was said, that reflects how the relationship will continue in the future.You don't have to give up your friends of the same sex when you start a new relationship why should you have to give up others. Yes there was a sexual history (in a relationship) but now it's just great friendship.

In the end it turned out that although I was entirely open with B's relationship, C was still seeing his ex's for 'coffee' but I never knew anything about these women till a week before we broke up.

When C mentioned 'what's good for the goose, is good for the gander' minus one missing link. One was doing it in the open with honesty and the other was not. I have no problems with myself being the friend of an ex or a new partner doing the same as long as each other knows about it and nothing is hidden.

Posted by: laughsalot71 at May 25, 2008 9:09 AM

Strangely, When I met my last serious girlfriend we were very good friends or became very good friends as we were falling for each other.

after couple years, we probley should have just stayed as friends but there was alot of sexual attraction and lets face it, we are only human.

I try to keep my life simple and as much fun as possible. I've always manage to keep my ex's laughing.. but then I don't bump into them out on the town with their new other halfs.. might be a different story.

Posted by: dvj2008 at May 24, 2008 10:59 PM

It depends on why the relationship ended I guess, doesn't it ynotalice. Some people just drift apart, grow in different directions, still like each other but don't want to stay together any more. In that case I think it is easier to establish a friendship between the two of you.

Some of us have had partners that were unfaithful, or emotionally or physically abusive, or all three !! In that case I would say it is very difficult, impossible probably, to ever be friendly, let alone friends.As you say, in some cases there is no basis on which to base a friendship when the relationship ends.

Posted by: jenjen57 at May 24, 2008 10:05 PM

Put this in the wrong blog by accident - sorry 'How dangerous is an open heart'

I think this has been summed up pretty early on for me, the difference between being a friend and friendly being the salient question.

As with most people when my ex and I split I made every attempt to keep things civil for the sake of the kids. They were experiencing enough without having us make an already bad situation worse by continuing the behaviours that had been symptoms of the demise of the relationship.

Time and distance from each other has seen us get to the point where we can now interact in a friendly manner. However that doesn't really mean that we are now friends, as I don't think that the basis for a friendship can be retrieved. To me a true friend is someone with whom you can immediately pick up after not seeing each other for a time, where there are no boundaries to what they can ask of you or vice versa (I don't even think a friend has to ask!), and no conditions placed on the friendship. After the breakdown of such an intimate relationship can you ever really trust the other person to that degree again? Despite going through the process of finding what part each of us played in the demise, learning from these, and well and truly moving on with life, I really don't think that I would be able to trust my ex to the degree that I would ever really consider her a true friend again. I am happy to have friendly but not necessarily friend.

Posted by: ynotalice at May 24, 2008 8:58 PM

So true Lynath. Fortunately I haven't had those issues to deal with as my ex makes no effort at all to have any sort of relationship with the kids. His loss.

Posted by: jenjen57 at May 24, 2008 8:35 PM

Agree, Lynath, though it wasn't an issue for us as he lived/lives overseas and my children have seen him only once in 15 years (they travelled to him).

Initially, he called them every couple of months which was eventually reduced to birthdays and Christmas (and now, nothing). My kids are very astute (of course, aren't they all?) so I was always honest and upfront with them as to why their father was no longer in their lives. Though I don't believe I was brutal about it, I didn't paint a rosy 'everything is right in the world' picture for them, either.

I doubt they would have the respect that they do for me now, if I did.

One of the most telling things my daughter has ever said to me is that she thinks I am a better, happier and more balanced person now, than I was back then.

I've gone off on a bit of a tangent here, but I do that!

Posted by: ninaschen at May 24, 2008 7:53 PM

I thought I wanted to be friends with my ex, but what I really wanted was the lack of nasty looks and/or comments and the uncomfortable atmosphere when in the same room or building or street or suburb. It is more comforting to think you could just say 'hi' or wave to each other. Does that ever happen in real life?

Posted by: nikki0058 at May 24, 2008 6:52 PM

Amber....I get what you are saying....I tried to hang on to the marriage until my son was a bit older.....tried to make his life happy...but I did finally realise that having his parents together constantly growling at each other was much more detrimental to his peace of mind than us making the break. He now tells me that he has been happier since we separated, even though it was unpleasant, and thanks me for being brave enough to make the move and show him that life can be what you want it to be, not what you expect it to be....Crikey...I love that kid so much...
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 24, 2008 5:37 PM

Hi Lynath,
I agree. If it's done well and the children actually enjoy themselves, then it's okay. But lots of times, kids don't enjoy themselves and just go along with it to keep the adults happy.

I can remember being quite shocked recently when my oldest son, who has just turned 23, told me how much he had hated family outings and holidays when he was growing up!

My ex was never what you could call a "family" man, he was never home, always off helping out somewhere (he was an emergency service volunteer, but it was more like another career) or if he was home doing something outside, by himself.
So I used to suggest we did the odd outing as a family, and occasionally we did the family holiday bit.
My son said he hated these occasions with a passion! His dad was always angry and grumpy and it was quite apparent it was the last thing he wanted to do.
He told me he was happier just being home, with no family dramas and being with his friends.
He actually told me he had NO happy memories of family outings or holidays.

I feel really sad about this. I thought I was doing the right thing, but apparently I just made my kids lives miserable, trying to encourage the "family thing" issue.
The other children have said similar, but were not as affected as my eldest, who is 3 years older than my next child.

My ex and I didn't separate until 3 and a bit years ago.
I had no idea my children's lives were so miserable. I stayed with their father for them!
No wonder my older boys were so "aggro" at our first year post-separation Christmas dinner!
So perhaps we need to check with our kids, once we separate to see if the "family bit" is what they really want, or if it is just us trying to feel less guilty?

Posted by: amberlight58 at May 24, 2008 5:16 PM

Children understand a lot more than given credit for.They will know if an occasion is being forced or not. In my opinion it is better to have less pretence at happy families than gritting teeth falseness. That doesn't build happy memories for the kids, but only relieves guilt in the parents and satisfies being seen to 'do the right thing" .
Reality is that families are broken when the relationship of the parents ends.
Better to have two happy birthday celebrations with each parent than one miserable tense one with both.(and all the angst and build up if new partners are involved)

Posted by: thelynathdiary at May 24, 2008 12:54 PM

I agree with you guys re the ex husband, especially if children are involved.

I am civil with my ex and his wife, we attend family functions together, talk about what the children are doing, I ask him for support on important issues when my teenage boy is being a shit!!!
We/adults need to do our best for the children we had together.
They don't want to see the bad shit that we adults do and say to each other. That should not be put onto our children....our children deserve a whole lot more than that from the adults in thier lives.

And to get to this point can be extremely hard work and really frustrating and occaisionally you want to kill the ex...but it is worth it in the long run....have a lovely Saturday all...jewels

Posted by: junebaby57 at May 24, 2008 11:16 AM

Of course you can, well it is if you have a mature outlook on life and are secure within yourself. If you started the relationship with friendship why does it have to end, The trouble is most guys cannot do it and women get jealous of guys female friends, so if thats the case, you still have issues to deal with....

Posted by: cancerianfiremonkey at May 24, 2008 11:12 AM

For the sake of the children you need to have some sort of friendship with the ex. After the initial shock wears off after a split and the hostilities (if there were any) die down, it's not too hard to be civil for the sake of the children. I maintained a reasonable relationship with the kids' dad, first couple of years he'd stay for dinner now and then, we'd all go to dinner for the birthdays, have Christmas morning together etc. The kids were young and they really appreciated it. Now we just swap the occasional hellos and will talk if there is a problem with either child but it's important that the children can see both parents getting along.
My ex-partner begged to be "friends" after he took a swing at me one night in front of my children. He started to email, send txt messages etc. asking to be friends. We didn't have any reason to be friends other than his desire (and ego). I refused, how can I be friends with someone who traumatised my children so much (I'm a big girl, I got over it but they still fear him). Of course that led to a lot of abuse and nasty emails etc.
Any potential partner I have will have to accept I get along with my ex husband and still need to have contact until the kids are grown up.

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at May 24, 2008 10:45 AM

Lifebeginsat47 and Iaminperth - thank you for your comments on friendly as opposed to friends. It really made me think about the future, and helped define where things are heading with my children's father.

Civilised, reasonable and friendly rather than friends is a good place to be, more like a business relationship perhaps. Realistically the true friendship went by the board a long time ago, and the behaviours that started that decline have never altered, and I have no right to even try to change that now!

Posted by: firelightlady at May 24, 2008 8:28 AM

Singlemellymel....time changes everything, but be prepared for lots of changes....I posted early in this blog about how my exes partner was detrimental to any form of friendliness and the current one is fabulous because she is a secure and strong individual. I admit that I missed the abrupt ending of a friendship that spanned 24 years by the end, but at least take comfort in that we now can communicate properly without old issues being part of the conversation.
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 23, 2008 9:25 PM

HI.... my husband and i broke up this feb and it wasnt a bitter split we both knew it was bound to happen i was quite happy just to move on and say " hi " if i saw him in the street but his new girlfriend got invovled and she wanted to be my friend thats after being really nasty to me in the first place saying stuff like " i gave up the right to him " and that i shouldnt have anything to do with him " etc well she needs her head read as for starters who in their right mind wants to be-friend the new partner and then starting trouble when i didnt i was quite happy to move on Oh well took a few months but all is settled down for now

Posted by: singlemellymel at May 23, 2008 8:19 PM

Posted by: waterlily58 at May 23, 2008 7:42 PM

Well said Waterlily, I totally agree!
Miss Priss.

Posted by: misspriss01 at May 23, 2008 8:04 PM

we worked very hard to become good friends again, and we are.
I would have missed that very much had I lost it.
Cheers. Posted by: lifebegins47 at May 23, 2008 1:43 PM

I have to agree with lifebegins. If you have a great friendship with someone, it would be very hard to cut them from your life and lose the companionship, trust, respect, confidence sharing, opinion airing, questioning, advice and all sorts of other things shared within a true and long-lasting friendship. If you value the friendship and the person behind it, be able to work to salvage or retain that friendship if the relationship falls apart - that person still has the same qualities that drew you into the friendship, but just not be the person meant for you to spend your whole life with.

Posted by: waterlily58 at May 23, 2008 7:42 PM

I can't understand this being friends with the Ex. Yes, stay focussed and civilized for the children, mix together when necessary if you have children, but friends no. My ex is pretty good and we see each other when necessary but he is my ex and he has a new life and I have a new life. Why would I want to be friends with someone who is now out of my life. I think a lot of it is about control, people who can't let go and it is a passive/aggressive way of getting a foot in the door or trying to alleviate feelings of guilt. Yes, you can get on well with your ex, but I don't believe you can ever be true friends.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 23, 2008 4:40 PM

I guess I want to clarify for myself, that I believe there is a difference between being friends and being friendly. That seems to be evident here in some of the stories told. Human tolerance is an amazing thing, hey?
I am friendly towards my exhusband and his wife but would not say we are friends. I do not share confidences or d&ms with him, nor do I wish to.
I am happy that we can all just get along for everyones sake.
My best friend became my partner for a while and after the split we worked very hard to become good friends again, and we are.
I would have missed that very much had I lost it.
Cheers.

Posted by: lifebegins47 at May 23, 2008 1:43 PM

And to follow through, ask your ex-husband to give you away, and your ex best friend to be the chief bridesmaid. If you really can't go that far, consider sesquipedalian76's idea. Posted May 22, 2008 10:22 PM . Just do it symbolically not for real.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 23, 2008 9:51 AM

Myarmsaroundyou - keep working at it. My children's father and I are very civilized and we have dinner about once a month as a family. It takes time and gentle effort however with children involved it is worth it. It also makes life more flexible down the track. Don't expect too much too soon.

Just also remember though why you split and don't imagine that the previous behaviours ever change or go away because they generally don't!

As for cathie668 - Issues much?? Go to the wedding by all, but as the chief bridesmaid? that is way over involved - though perhaps a cunning plot to have yourself in all the wedding photos for years to come...

A friend who annexes your boyfriend is not a friend however long you have known them...someone has used all your confessions, experiences and confidences from years past to 'cut your grass'! Or maybe deep down you didn't really care that much for him.

Enjoy the wedding, wish them the best, then move out onto a great life, find someone new and maybe look for some new friends!

Posted by: firelightlady at May 23, 2008 8:54 AM

I have to say the hardest thing about working to be friends is the blank wall. I have three kids and that means I will continue to see my ex-wife for years to come, so I want to be friends.

We went out for dinner as a family last night (major step from max 5 minutes conversation to dinner). I sent an SMS saying how nice it was to have dinner together and see the family together and happy. The reply was 'OK'. No thanks, no extra words.

We have to just take these things and move on one step at a time. I think that over time we will truly be friends, I am looking forward to the time that my Ex finds someone special for her.

PS: I have to give it to you cathie668 - extraordinary story, very forgiving.

Posted by: myarmsaroundyou at May 23, 2008 8:30 AM

Hi All.
There are very good reasons why my ex is just that, but also very special reasons why we were together for 20 years and 3 kids, so despite being very hurt by his actions during and after the breakup, I waited for the heat to die down and now all is friendly.
At special events, 21sts engagements and 2 births ( still no weddings, that I dread as he has had little to do with the upbringing) I ensure that lots of photos are taken with dad and the new wife,then myself and the kids and then get a quickie just original family shot. Seems to appease the fiery possesive new Mrs and still retain some sensibilty.
Above all I keep my head high and showing the kids a real life lesson in smiling through gritted teeth at times.
I dont ever feel threatened by exes unless it was a very recent split, they are part of a past life.
Cheers,
Lyn

Posted by: lifebegins47 at May 23, 2008 12:52 AM

There is no way in hell that i would want to be friends with my ex. Not after all the crap she put me through. They are your ex for a reason and I intend to keep it that way.

You dont need that in your life. Cut the dead wood so to speak and move on.
Make a fresh start and enjoy life and then one day when you least expect it, your real lifetime partner will show up.

Posted by: kruzin79 at May 22, 2008 10:44 PM

Posted by: cathie668 at May 21, 2008 10:32 PM

Good grief! How can ANYONE be that forgiving?!

Please tell me this is all part of some nefarious plan to kill them on the wedding day...? I like nothing more than diabolical plot of revenge...

Posted by: sesquipedalian76 at May 22, 2008 10:22 PM

To remain friends with an ex you need to be totally over them romantically, otherwise it is a dead end street for both of you. It will only cause you both angst.
It's usually best to have some down time before you try to be just friends too...give it a few months to be sure you are over them.
I've had mixed experiences with exes but did remain extraordinarily close to one whom I would consider to be the only soul mate I have ever experienced in my life.
The others I've been happy not to have as friends.

Posted by: istj54 at May 22, 2008 5:57 PM

Some people want to remain friends after a relationship ends, some don't .... go figure.

Posted by: woodnwine at May 22, 2008 10:04 AM

I have worked really hard on this. I want to be friends, not enemies and we are finally going out on a family dinner together. It has taken a lot of effort but I do think it is better to be friends. After all my ex has literally known me for half my life. I would like to be best friends again, might be asking a bit much though.

For now I have to keep a happy face and keep ignoring the attempts to get me worked up. I like and care for my ex, I just cannot live with her due to a lifetime of differences. Better to start a new slate and find someone that can forgive my sins because I am not perfect and can never be perfect.

Posted by: myarmsaroundyou at May 21, 2008 11:45 PM

Wow cathie668,
You are one heck of a woman! I doubt if I could be so accepting.
Good luck in your search. I hope you find someone wonderful!

Posted by: amberlight58 at May 21, 2008 11:29 PM

cathie668 at 10:32pm: Thank you so much for telling us that. You are pure gold. Wish I was 20 years younger and living in Sydney - I'd want to be in the queue.

Posted by: timewarp1 at May 21, 2008 11:07 PM

My ex broke up with me in sept last year because he is in love with my best friend.........they are getting married next march and l am to be chief bridesmaid at the wedding..........and all 3 of us still live together............it nearly killed me at the time but she has been my best friend for 20 years and l decided that guys are a dime a dozen and best friends are harder to come by........so she is welcome to him and l will find some body better.........l know he's put there somewhere

Posted by: cathie668 at May 21, 2008 10:32 PM

I am sad to say my ex-partner didn't want to remain friends after we broke up, which I found very disappointing, as I valued (and still do) our wonderful friendship/kinship. It was a fairly civil parting of ways but he was adamant that the friendship wasn't to continue. We all experience break ups differently and some people cope better with remaining in contact & maintaining the friendship than others. J.....

Posted by: misspriss01 at May 21, 2008 8:18 PM

Doesn't it really depend on how the relationship ended?

Heck, who could be friends with someone that broke trust (i.e. cheated etc.), but it's a totally different situation if the relationship ended on mutual and mature terms.

I'm still friends with most of my exs., in fact am very close with my last, we were together 5 years, and were good friends before we "got together", and not to have continued to have been friends would have been a total waste of the last 6 years we had known each other. That was 3 years ago now, so yes, it is most definitely possible to be friends, even good friends.

Posted by: xczrx at May 21, 2008 7:03 PM

Hi Everyone, there's much wisdom here! and i guess my own contribution is small and i believe on a lower level than a lot of your, but my ex bf (dated 1 year, broke up nearly 2 years ago) puts on a guilt trip every few months about how he 'feels like he's falling in love with me all over again' everytime he sees me, and thinks he might need counselling (which i support!).......And despite me telling him to get lost (several times) after the initial 'but of course we'll stay friends', i wish i'd never tried to travel that path!

Posted by: ainslie1988 at May 21, 2008 4:45 PM

Waterbombe, you seem to be under the impression that I want my ex back. No. I 'let go' of him the moment he left me and walked in to the arms of another woman (not his current girlfriend). He will not crash and burn when she leaves him. I thought the CPR bit was funny.
Laughsandtalks has the correct perspective. My ex is enjoying himself. Likewise.

Posted by: enrepres at May 21, 2008 4:32 PM

Men don't ever know if the kid is really theirs (unless they get the woman to agree to a paternity test) ...your 84 year old is most unlikely to be a daddy, and his much younger bride is highly likely to be having a very good time with an equally-younger bloke when grandpa has one of his many naps...get real, Marcus. In these situations, the bloke is sillier than the woman. He is led into idiocy by his ego. Everyone can see it but him.

Re much younger men, WnW... I've never gone there, despite the occasional invitation. The youngest guy I ever dated was 10 years younger than me. I just can't seriously consider a relationship with a guy near my kids age....it has something to do with seeing him in nappies, somehow...I'm a visual person. Besides the world is full of great single men my age, so I don't need to.

Why would women say that to you? Well, I don't know the answer in your particular case, but it may have something to do with the fact that we get heartily sick of being told we are 'on the shelf' because of our age. Especially when we know for certain we are not on the shelf, and probably having a lot more fun than the bloke who is currently telling us that. (Not that you say that, but a lot of guys do. Frankly the ones who do bang on about how useless older women are do not get much fun themselves, I reckon. It's a sort of sicko revenge trip for being ignored by women. But comments like that are a good indicator that a. the bloke is pretty useless himself and b. most women he has had anything to do with have seen that fairly quickly and dumped him. So c. he has a huge chip on his shoulder).

Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 3:44 PM

waterbomber - what then is your opinion of women dating MUCH younger men? Off topic I know but maybe we need to take the next logical step. Some women I've dated have said that their ex was SO much younger than me (OMG, we're back on topic, almost) .... what's their motivation behind saying that I wonder?

Posted by: woodnwine at May 21, 2008 2:33 PM

I love hearing the stories of older men with their younger girlfriends.
We had a hillbilly family out of Ararat who achieved notoriety too. He was 84 and his also dark haired and Pacific Islander bride gave birth to an apparently health boy at 32 (might have been 34). Some might remember the freak show aspect of it, it made The Media big time.
Women seem to go for partners around their own age, though I think Estelle is quite a few years (15?) younger than her X. He is just continuing the theme. Men tend to like to partner with a women in her reproductive prime regardless of their age or reproductive intent/ability. It is a great ego boost and makes other men envious and turns women all sorts of different shades (with foils).
I'm sure he is enjoying himself and having a laugh at the joke too.
Personally the cultural generation gap is too much of a hurdle for real relating but I won't and don't know any fellas who will knock back a random with a bird half their age.
Haha. Marquis

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 21, 2008 2:21 PM

Marcus I strenously object to your comment. I'm blonde myself. Seriously entrepres my ex-husband (ex for 20 years)hooked up with a 21 year old when he was 54. I think he's still with her. Sometimes when people hear this, they assume he left me for a younger model. But no, I am able to tell them that she was only 8 years old when we split up! Puts those old dick(head)s into perspective, doesn't it?

The thing about those old guys with the young chicks is that when she leaves them, they absolutely crash. It turns out that the poor dears have really believed all this time that it was their manly charms that hooked her. When it becomes clear it was their wallet or they were a daddy-substitute, as most of their friends, even the male ones, have been telling them, they cannot take the shock. Warn your children to keep up-to-date with CPR and other emergency qualifications as they may need them for their dad shortly. It's probably not worth you bothering..its a lot of trouble to go to, really, and I'm sure you have more useful things to do with your time than rescuing a old bloke so he can come back and make an idiot of himself again. Once is enough, entrepres...let him go.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 21, 2008 11:21 AM

No the girlfriend is not blonde. She's brunette with some (too) severe red foils and she needs braces to straighten her teeth and correct her overbite. I told my ex this and he just laughed..I was serious.
I may be overly critical...

Posted by: enrepres at May 21, 2008 11:09 AM

enrepres at May 21, 2008 9:45 AM
GF blonde?

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 21, 2008 10:26 AM

neverhalfempty @ 10.57pm

I celebrated my sons engagement recently and of course his father, my ex husband (62), was there with his girlfriend (27). I have no desire to be friends with my ex husband. I am civil to him now, both in private and in public. When I need his advice or input, I will still ask him for it. He was and still is a good father. But I will not tolerate his snarling, whinning self obsessed girlfriend. I know I cannot exclude her from my childrens lives but I will not include her either.
I dont think it wise to be friends with exes but certainly friendly or civil would be the go.

Estelle

Posted by: enrepres at May 21, 2008 9:45 AM

I think the 'friends with the ex thing' is a bit overdone at times. My ex is the father of my children and therefore has a place in our lives, the same as his mother, the kids grandmother and the rest of his family who we get on extremely well with. We would expect him to have a partner so therefore she is part of it also. If something is extremely important like a graduation of course he is welcome and so is she as his partner. The kids are old enough to work things out and afterwards the kids and I sat down with a drink and had a good laugh about the day. It's a great bonding session with the kids and also so interesting to hear their comments on the day. He has a new partner, he's moved on, she's part of his life, but he's still the father of your children, let your kids see you shine on that day.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 21, 2008 9:03 AM

Every situation is different. Some people bring up the importance of maintaining an amicable relationship with exs for the sake of children. That's understandable as long as there's no violence. However, it makes little sense to me, why people would want to be friends with their exs for any other reason. What other reasons would there be? Other than that (tiny or big) hope for "new beginnings"? Or just to hang on to the past? Some people claim they are not interested or have no more feelings towards their ex, but why invest the time and effort to meet up with them? Assuming these relationships were mature like sharing bills and accomadation -- I don't think any less of people who keep the friendship. No need for that. Just hope no one gets hurts more than what they've already experienced. And definitely hope old relationships don't interfer with new loves and potential furture happiness. -- Best of luck to everyone.

Posted by: saltylime at May 21, 2008 8:45 AM

mystiemuse, the only way my friendship to an ex can include their new partner too is if my "romantic" emotions, for want of a better term, are no longer engaged with the guy. If there's a hint of that lingering, or any feelings of hurt that he's now with someone else (particularly if it was straight from me to another, which is exactly what happened to me recently and I find it, and still do, quite amazing, but there you go....) then no way will the concept interest me.

Once I'm truly over an ex, though, new partners don't bother me in the slightest. It's a bit of a litmus test for me really - when I know I'm quite happy to meet and be friends with their new partner, I know I'm "cured"!

neverhalfempty, sorry, can't think of a sensible thing to suggest re your celebration times with your children and ex. I can understand you wishing his new partner wasn't involved, but doubt that's a realistic option, in truth. His life now includes her, and she's going to be involved in all these situations. Would it help if you all enjoyed these occasions together and you found a nice companion for yourself to accompany you - strength in numbers, sort of thing?

Posted by: malsie at May 21, 2008 8:29 AM

The go with X's is to be friendly, not too familiar.

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 21, 2008 12:07 AM

OMGoodness, this is a subject I am dealing with right now. Although I know that my ex and I were never meant to be, I was very hurt when the relationship ended. The complication is that we have a child together and as he went straight from me to his now partner, I felt extremely betrayed. But I wanted us to try and remain amicable because of our child. Unfortunately his partner is very jealous of me and at this point in time he and I are not speaking. I have no romantic notions about he and I now, but I do want our child to feel connected to each of us even while with the other parent, so a friendship of some sort should be both of our priorities, in my opinion anyway. I only hope we can achieve that soon. Also, who believes that, that friendship, should include their new partner? I certainly don't but I would be interested in hearing others views...

Posted by: mystiemuse at May 21, 2008 12:00 AM

My ex is re-married and his wife has little time for our children. I'd love to be still friends or at least be able to have a conversation with the person with whom I spent 25 years of my life. One of the reasons that this is on my mind lately is that our children are soon to reach some milestones in their lives (both graduating from uni this year, for example) and I'd like to think that we could celebrate these together. The kids and I would prefer this was without his second partner but that is probably unlikely to happen.

Any clues as to how this could be achieved gratefully accepted!

Posted by: neverhalfempty at May 20, 2008 10:57 PM

I guess it depends on how mature the relationship was in the first place..

he says she says is not a good way to be.

I have 2 friendships with 2 exs, and 1 that could be termed civil and 1 thats a lost cause......

so i think its possible.

funny thing is that the lost cause is with the one who truely broke my heart.

I guess." that loves got alot to do with it...'

Posted by: twoeyes at May 20, 2008 9:47 PM

Nikki
If he couldn't support you through such a trauma and is now fundamentally playing games with you, your friends and feelings he is not worth it.
You are still really young, find someone who wants to be there for you no matter what!
Breakups hurt but when you find the one who reallly wants to be there you will wonder why you were hesitant to keep looking... Good luck, Cheers Stuart

Posted by: creativestuart at May 20, 2008 7:46 PM

Hmm... Can you be friends with your ex? Perhaps a more important question is, should you?

I think it depends almost entirely on the nature of the break up. If it was relatively peaceful and by mutual agreement, then yes it is possible, I suppose. But under any other circumstances, I cannot see how it would do anyone any good. If there is any lingering bitterness or unresolved feelings, it is going to come up at some point and wreck havoc.

I think that unless there are children involved , in which case you have an obligation to them to at least be civil to each other, its better to make a clean break so there is absolutely no ambiguity about the situation.

Posted by: sesquipedalian76 at May 20, 2008 7:31 PM

I guess it depends on why that person is your ex !

Two and a half years after our 21 year relationship ended, I still cannot see a time when we could ever be friends. Fortunately I don't have to try and be civil to him for the sake of our young adult children, as he does not keep in contact with them, despite living in the same city.

I just don't like him at all, that is why he is ex, and am happy that I don't have to negotiate anything with him with regards to the kids or tolerate any contact with him.

However, I do think that, especially where there are children that it is ideal if people can be friends and all get along. Fortunately I am still good friends with my ex mother in law and my sisters in law, so the kids are not totally cut off from their other Grandmother or the other side of their extended family.

Jewels, how freaky is that horoscope thing ! If only you could have read it BEFORE !!

Posted by: jenjen57 at May 20, 2008 7:31 PM

newbz, sorry about the accident - that must have been horrific for you. I think what you said about being able to be friends with your high school boyfriend where your feelings were no longer in the "love department" is the crucial issue.

There's no point anyone putting themselves through that agony if the emotions are still so alive that it's painful to now be relegated to "a friend". And if you know your ex finding a new partner is going to tear your heart apart, again, no way is friendship an option at that point. At some time down the track it may be, though, just not when feelings are still so raw. If there's been much hurt and bitterness in the relationship, then it most likely is the best thing to just walk away altogether, unless sharing children together, I think.

Posted by: malsie at May 20, 2008 7:22 PM

newbz at May 20, 2008 6:12 PM

Flying horses and fleeing boyfriends.

A shared traumatic experience will make for a great reminisce when you catch up in future, but it won't define a relationship.
Perhaps your recent BF feels the same about you now as you do about the high school beau?
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at May 20, 2008 7:09 PM

Thank god a lot of people on this blog are still friends with their ex, because most people I know look at me as if I have two heads when I say my ex and I are still best friends.

Why the hell shouldn't we be, after 8 years of going through good times and bad, telling each other everything, we simply didn't feel the same way about each other and the relationship dissolved (notice, not broke up, dissolved). I'd say the fact that the relationship ended amicably has been the decider in it all (indeed it ended before either of us realised, it took us an extra 6 months to realise we were just back to being friends again)

But I really hate the people who try to make you feel guilty about it, as if you should be ashamed to be good friends with your ex. Has anyone else copped that? Oh and can anyone tell me how to get spaces between paragraphs on the blog, my poor grammar is killing me.

Posted by: financeman1 at May 20, 2008 6:30 PM

I prefer to live my life and enjoy it without my ex in it...that is why he is my ex.........K

Posted by: auntykaz at May 20, 2008 6:26 PM

I don't want to be friends. The relationship is over - move on. no matter whether you were the 'guilty party', the one who left or the one who was left - it's over. I don't need that negativity in my life, and if there were good times to remember, isn't it just a pain that you don't need now? Interestingly, the offspring feel the same way.

Posted by: taken2it at May 20, 2008 6:22 PM

Well i am asking that very question! recently i broke up with my boyfriend of 1 year and 7 months. We were involved in a massive car accident involving a horse flying through my windscreen. Since then i clung onto him too much and scared him off 2 weeks ago which resulted in him dumping me. Last week I made my apologies for being clingy and past mistakes over coffee and when it was time to leave i asked him if i could have a kiss he turned to me and full on kissed me and hugged me three times. He then asked me for a photograph from our 1 year anniversary together which i thought was a good sign.

But sadly i just don't understand he told me friends before our meeting over coffee that he was only going to ever be friends with me and we'd never be an item again. yet he kissed me 2 days later after that email was sent to my friends. I would really like him back and i'd like to be happy with him as i don't want to be just friends. Being just friends would be very difficult as if he got another girlfriend or told me he'd been with someone else it would break my heart even more as i truly love him. so there for i'd find it hard to be just friends. However i have stayed friends with my first boyfriend from high school and we seem to get along just fine but i believe that is only because i have no feelings for him in the love department.
Nikki

Posted by: newbz at May 20, 2008 6:12 PM

"However no kids, NO WAY am I being friends.... A friendship is not available as some consulation prize for lieing, cheating or lack of commitment!"
Posted by: creativestuart at May 20, 2008 2:06 PM
I'm with you on that one Stuart.
Once it's over and when no kids are involved then cut all ties.
Nothing gets up my nose more than the "But I still want to be friends!" speech.
That's how my last relationship finished.
After 4 months of going from seeing each other a few times a week, good night phone calls and txt message to me being lied too about what she was doing on the weekend etc plus my calls and txt messages being ignored plus being told there maybe someone else by a close friend over hers I told her to shove her friendship somewhere.
I felt crap enough with out having to deal with not being able to randomly kiss or hug her.
If you have kids. Sure. You need to be at least civil to each other but if you don't have kids why waste your time on them.
The last thing I want is to see my ex with someone else after she has dumped me.
As for dating someone who is good friends with an ex. God no. It's just not worth the risk.

Posted by: chris261 at May 20, 2008 5:39 PM

Hi All,

Happens all the time with people I know. I was still friends with my ex for years after the breakup; but just didn't see the point in my hanging around after we sold the house because she was in a relationship and I didn't want to cause complications to that.

I am actually the very best of friends with a woman on whom I was REAL keen....but she was REAL smart and wasn't interested!!

Bob

Posted by: notgodsgift at May 20, 2008 5:37 PM

I think its possible to stay friends if its more of a distant friendship, otherwise the boundaries become very blurry. I mean you can be close friends and for large periods of time it will be ok, but I find it eventually leads to complications. Especially if one has just come out of another bad relationship or there is still a strong attraction between you. I guess if you are both very much in love with someone else and you are honest people then it could work. But life isn't so perfect and neither are we.

Posted by: sasuke26 at May 20, 2008 4:30 PM

I've remained good friends with most of the people I have dated over my lifetime, thru marriages, divorces, whatever. I don't think there's any need for anyone to bear a grudge, none of us are perfect and I think each one contributed to the eventual break up of a relationship. Bearing grudges makes your face go wrinkly and old too, so it's just no good. Get on with it, enjoy life while you are lucky enough to have it.

Posted by: iaminperth at May 20, 2008 4:21 PM

irishmark, like yourself I have managed to stay friends with a few exes (ex partners, not husbands, never having married) if the friendship component of the relationship was strong enough to warrant it. Most of my relationships have ended amicably, and once the physical attraction has waned, I find I can do the friendship thing quite easily. It's only a problem if I didn't want the relationship to end or I still feel physically drawn and emotionally involved, in which case I don't attempt it until those feelings have changed.

Having a partner who is still friends with an ex is okay to me as long as it's not what I regard as an inappropriate amount of contact. The last person I was involved with had contact with (and continues to) with his ex pretty well every day in some form or other, be it phone, text or email (he doesn't live close to her anymore so it's not actually in person). When we were together, I often wondered who he was actually in the relationship with, me or her, as she still professed her love for him, organised things for him on the internet, etc. As he said he had no wish to get back with her, he had no idea why this bothered me, but I felt then - and still do - it was excessive, and not something I would do to any partner.

Posted by: malsie at May 20, 2008 2:44 PM

Obviously with children there is a need to at least be civil for their sakes and I feel for the childen greatly.

However no kids, NO WAY am I being friends.... A friendship is not available as some consulation prize for lieing, cheating or lack of commitment!

You can't have just the bits of someone you want when you want. That is selfish and appauling! It is also not fair on any future person to have them in some sort of shared experience.

I actually didn't have a war at the end of my marriage, it is the one thing I am thankful for.

Posted by: creativestuart at May 20, 2008 2:06 PM

I stay friends with ex's too, Irishmark, but it's tricky with a new partner. I guess your partner has to trust you though or what's the point? If they do, they come to realise you can actually turn an ex-relationship into a friendship. The problem I have had though has been with people who have cut all ties themselves, thinking it is the only 'safe' way to go. Maybe people who have been in a relationship for years would be the same...if they have only had one partner for 10, 20 or 30 years they may not have had the opportunity to turn a relationship into a friendship, and so may doubt that it can be done.

Posted by: waterbombe at May 20, 2008 1:46 PM

Good day to you all,

This is a subject quite close to my heart. I am friends with basically every serious girlfriend I've every had. I often wonder is this acceptable or is it just plain stupid. I hold no lingering feelings towards them but they were all quite big influences on my life and I would like to think the good times outweighed the bad. It has caused me grief though and trying to be honest with a new lady about some old flames has landed me in hot water more then once?

Posted by: irishmark1978 at May 20, 2008 1:29 PM

I wonder if friends is the right term for ex's there never was a war, and last Christmas I went back to WA to have Christmas there, I had Christmas day with my ex wifes extended family, and it was very nice. I have been divorced for 10 years, when things first happened, there was a bit more feeling to things, but my experience is that things have improved over the years.

Posted by: virgil at May 20, 2008 11:00 AM

I would like to share this as a warning to others....a friend of mine went onto RSVP a few months after a break up. Her ex spotted her profile and as he knew her regular computer password he went in and edited her profile to suggest very explicit actions she was looking for,. She wondered why she was getting kisses galore. Needless to say she closed the profile. Since I heard this, I check my profile regularly now even though my password has not been divulged to anyone else.
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 20, 2008 10:32 AM

amberlight58 at May 20, 2008 9:27 AM

Although my ex and I had a full on war in court we manged to have family gatherings with the kids. Christmas eve dinner at a restaurant was especially good and also kids birthdays.

No other partners came to these events it was just the original family.There other regular dinners out as well although I think I may have been invited more to pick up the tab.

Then a year ago when I announced that I was remarrying after being divorced from my ex for 17 years the ex suddenly decided no more family getogethers.

The kids are now almost fully grown so I guess it is not so critical although there have been now been problems at any function I attend eg a sprting end of season break up.

From what I have heard from my kids about their friends situations there is not much friendliness between ex partners.

With the passing of time it seems the situation gets worse not better.

Sorry about the gloomy outlook. grego

were a few

This went on for many years more than 12 then

Posted by: grego7 at May 20, 2008 10:11 AM

For many years there was a lot of animosity between my ex-husband and I. This was caused mostly by the insecurities of his partner at the time who banned my name being spoken and even made it uncomfortable for my son to refer to me whilst at their place. Happily, he has been with a lovely, strong lady for the past few years and we can now be friendly (not quite friends though!).
There has been a lot of water under the bridge, but time has also helped the healing and we will both be attending our son's 21st later in the year. I would never have envisaged that 9 years ago!!!
Cheers,
B.

Posted by: bm1960 at May 20, 2008 10:03 AM

It will be interesting to see what others write about this.
If you have children there is really no choice but to try to keep things as civil as possible.
A lady I know and her ex, decided very early in the piece, that their children would suffer as little as possible.
So from the beginning they had Christmas and the children's birthdays together as a family.
Despite both re-partnering, they have continued to do the same, just the size of the Christmas celebrations have changed!

I suppose this was helped by the fact that they had relationship counselling, both gave it their best shot, but both realised their relationship had run its course.
Both parties then set their minds to making things as easy as possible for their children.
Marrying people who were also secure enough not to want to sabotage this arrangement certainly helped - big time!

I really admired this and for the sake of our youngest son, I invited my ex to have Christmas dinner together the first Christmas post separation.
However, my ex and our older sons spent that couple of hours verbally stoushing at each other, which was very unpleasant and my daughter and I felt compelled to be continually making peace between them all!
Exhausting to say the least!
Once my ex left to go to a friend's place, the boys settled and we had a pleasant afternoon watching DVDs and playing games.
Unsurprisingly, that hasn't happened since!

I just can't imagine ever being able to be friends with my ex, maybe it's too soon (only 3 years) or maybe we just weren't ever really compatible in the first place!

Posted by: amberlight58 at May 20, 2008 9:27 AM