RSVP Blog
Want a husband? Get a degree.
Women with degrees are more likely to marry than their less educated sisters, in a dramatic reversal of an established pattern according to the SMH and new analysis of the 2006 census.
In 1996 women without university degrees had higher marriage rates. But within a decade it was no longer the case. By 2006, 61 per cent of women aged 30 to 34 who had degrees were married, compared with 53 per cent of those without post-school qualifications.
Do you think that more educated women have more chances to get married or this is simply a coincidence? What about men? How important is a degree in a relationship? Is education more important the beauty or is it the other way around? Is education something that you pay attention when looking at a profile on RSVP?
Posted by April 15, 2008 3:33 PM
Latest Comments
virgil at April 28, 2008 2:26 PM
Pastor.
Am I to assume you agree the Boeing assembly by a hurricane is quite unlikely or impossible?
MS
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 28, 2008 3:27 PM
Posted by: oldergent at April 28, 2008 1:16 PM
As I have continued to assert old one.
You are absolutely correct with regard to the hidden blogger and it's tactics. I will consider myself forehead slapped and will, in future, ignore it's posts as they deserve. How embarrasment.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 28, 2008 2:32 PM
virgil April 27, 2008 11:11 PM
Pastor.
You have probably heard the quote that "the probability of life originating on earth is no greater than the chance a hurricane sweeping through a scrapyard would have the luck to assemble a Boeing 747"?
What do you think?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 28, 2008 12:26 PM
When you eliminate the impossible, and the unlikely, then what is left is intelligent design, creation.
Posted by: virgil at April 28, 2008 2:26 PM
laughsandtalks hypothetical @ 11.43
Your hypothetical couple who enjoy recreational sex.... the woman does find herself pregnant and decides to keep the baby (yes thus breaking their agreement), does not tell the man about the pregnancy and, of necessity, ends their relationship. She is thereby not ruining the mans life. Would she still be condemned as a woman rapist?
Posted by: enrepres at April 28, 2008 2:19 PM
Posted by: voltairen at April 28, 2008 12:37 PM
What you project speaks more clearly than your words. Your post I'm referring to clearly attempts to pidgeon hole men who question a womens assertion, myself and another, as being members of a boys club. This is a standard response to discredit much touted by the early feminist movement. As you well know, ducky, yet continue your selective editing and comprehension. Back you go to your standard deflections in place of substance in a further attempt to denegrate those who disagree with you.
By the way, how many times can you mention marcus agreeing with you. Does that make you all fuzzy, you continue to raise it which begs the question, Why is his acceptance so important to you?
In answer to your ending question, no, just amused to take the piss out of supercilious, pretentious wannabees.
And Cheers,
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 28, 2008 1:49 PM
Stop talking to yourself.
They fill wards with inmates all yabbering away to their multiple personalities.
Posted by: captthunderbolt at April 28, 2008 1:38 PM
Troy,
You should know better than debate a no show, they have their right to be ignored, however since this has escalated to the point it now is and the sniper still will not divulge the gender, I am leaning towards female, or very near to it.
The only reason I am responding to your hidden profile is that I seen it before it went into hiding.
Marcus.
Well said, the Devil's advocate will often reveal more than the Inquisition, and certainly more passion. Don't you just love it when some of the Ladies get their dander up. Even the always thoughful and calm Aunty. Get the private? he ha.
Cheers OG.
ps No Bill I do not spend all day on the blogs, the house is sparkling with my Autumn cleaning.
Posted by: oldergent at April 28, 2008 1:16 PM
Earth to Troy, just because you say something is true, doesn't make it so. Attributing comment to either party (where it has not taken place) is a rather slippery slope, especially when the evidence is on record for all to see.
Your "what the hell" post of the 26/4 @ 9.04am, where you rave on about me presenting "a preconceived opinion seemingly formed from browsing some early feminist handout" has got NOTHING to do with ANYTHING I had just posted. Go back and have a look - it plainly shows that you completely missed the point of my previous post (25/4 @ 6.05pm). Which was, that my expressed view is not dependant on whether I am male or female, and that I don't have to be a woman in order to agree with one. Even Marcus (eventually)acknowledged the validity of this point! So don't try to rewrite history, Troy, your words can speak for themselves, and they definitely revealed your lack of comprehension. It's a case of too little, too late, and nothing you invent now to try and cover your tracks can change that.
The same goes for your uncanny ability to know what I am thinking, as in, "It's a pity your intellect is not as towering as you thought". And that I am "so sure of (my)self that I don't even see when (I) am having the piss taken out of (me)". It occurs to me that this could be a classic case of projection, perhaps, Troy? (That is, where one's own feelings about oneself are projected onto others,)
And lastly, if you believe that insults and name calling (taking the piss, as you call it) are an appropriate way to respond to other bloggers' comments, that says a lot more about you than anyone else, "kiddo". As do all the words we choose.
Posted by: voltairen at April 28, 2008 12:37 PM
virgil April 27, 2008 11:11 PM
Pastor.
You have probably heard the quote that "the probability of life originating on earth is no greater than the chance a hurricane sweeping through a scrapyard would have the luck to assemble a Boeing 747"?
What do you think?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 28, 2008 12:26 PM
Iampert. April 26, 2008 10:55 PM
I note your and others willingness to censor adults discussing an ethical aspect of pregnancy termination.
I assume you know that those freshly shucked Mosman Park oysters, otherwise known as oysters natural, are alive, and with a functioning nervous system when they slide down your throat?
Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 28, 2008 12:09 PM
brilliantblue April 27, 2008 12:46 PM
voltairen April 27, 2008 10:19 PM
waterbeetle April 27, 2008 11:37 AM
iaminperth April 27, 2008 10:06 AM
saphires4me April 27, 2008 8:50 AM
jenjen57 April 26, 2008 11:23 PM
wishfulthinker April 26, 2008 8:30 PM
Girls.
Gough Whitlam once famously suggested to a persistent female heckling for an increase to his pro-choice program funding guidelines, that, in some cases, 'a retrospective abortion is appropriate'.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 28, 2008 11:56 AM
Amberlite April 27, 2008 1:34 AM
One thing I have learnt about debating, is that it is often instructive to take a point of view contrary to the one you notionally hold. Don't assume that on a forum like this a perspective forcefully projected is equally tightly held...
Amber, you have responded to my deliberately narrow account of a common situation. It's hypothetical and follows my theme of looking at sexual relationships from a masculist or alternative point of view.
Anyway, on point. A couple want to enjoy some sex. They have agreed will be recreational only. They have an explicit agreement that the female is responsible for contraception (ie she had stated she was on the pill, on her period, IUD, morning after, spermicide, tubli ) and if this contraception fails she will asap terminate. The reasons why he doesn't want to father are irrelevant. In this carefully defined situation, they both reasonably want to maximise their sexual pleasure by not putting his dick in a latex bag. She becomes pregnant.
I argue that because of her solemn promise and because the affect an unwanted child, with all the issues involved, will have on the man's life, the woman is ethically bound to terminate.
Wishfulthinking (a term that is usually a synonym for silly) says NO, the woman can freely, unilaterally abrogate that agreement, have a baby, with all and any unpleasant consequences for the man because quote "that is just the way some women are". That is ethically hideous. Carte blanche to do anything.
In many ways IT IS THE PRACTICAL, AND ETHICAL EQUIVALENT OF A WOMAN RAPING A MAN. I have been there myself and talked to other men who have been in that situation as I have talked to women who have been raped. The feeling of powerlessness, violation, humiliation and breach of trust are the same. It is an act of ethical and emotional violence against an innocent male.
Cheers Marcus x
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 28, 2008 11:43 AM
Kaz, it is interesting that you and others choose only to respond to my posts where they allow you to repeat the party line. When I ask a direct question? No response. The only person who has responded in a rational yet frimly opinionated way is waterbomb, who was the subject of my original aside to Marcus, which was a chuckle at his now having to face two women of credidle intelect and a means to express it. The rest of you rabidly saw an opportunity to attack me. Hey it's all good, gave me a gigle at the lengths people go to when baited. The absolute icing on the cake is our precious voltaren. so sure of yourself you don't even see when you are having the piss taken out of you. Hahahaha....my jaw is better Kaz as I've been living my life in the sunshine.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 28, 2008 10:26 AM
Posted by: voltairen at April 27, 2008 10:19 PM
Voltaren, the what the hell I was refering to was, "What the hell" drivel are you oozing?....old chap/ette. It's a pity your intellect is not as towering as you thought.
Oh, gonads to you hahaha.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 28, 2008 10:14 AM
I think we all need a degree, whether single, married, separated or divorced...
... simply a degree of honesty, sanity, compassion, & simple love for our fellow man.
If we all qualified in these aspects of humanity.. what changes we'd see in the world.
Posted by: decoratress at April 28, 2008 9:59 AM
Hi there, may I start by saying I have a degree, both in the medical field, but no, I am not a doctor. However I would like to point out something that has ben missed in the discussion of safe sex. It is so much more than unwanted pregnancies, but the real risk of life threatening diseases that makes it the responsibility of both people concerned. Statistics released 12 months ago showed people in their 40s were at a higher risk of STDs than the younger people that were raised on the need for protection, and STDs today cause life long problems and illness for both. They are not gender biased as pregnancies were.
Having said that with 2 degrees, I am single ( married 19 years and divorced 10) so dont know that the degrees have helped much. Maybe I have spent too much time studying and not dating??? As to the bickering, read what interests me and skip the rest, its called self censoring. Cheers to all.
Posted by: lifebegins47 at April 28, 2008 3:16 AM
The male Praying Mantis is your original Richard Cranium. Total focus on getting a lay, come what may.
What no-one's mentioned yet is that until his head comes off, nothing else comes.
He needs his head taken off before he can do the deed. and as his brains are at the south end, so what?
.............................................................
I believe that red-backs and black widows are the southern and northern hemisphere variants of the same species, and also suspect that other spiders may have the same domestic arrangements.
Marcus, where are you? When we finally want to know something that you'd be qualified to advise us on, you're away without leave!
Or have you neen kept in, for pulling all the girls' plaits and making them cross?
Posted by: timewarp1 at April 28, 2008 12:30 AM
Yes, Voltairen, I must agree, the bloggers can often be somewhat akin to the preyingmantis or redback spider...newbies beware...if you are too intelligent or witty or refer to a particular blogger too much, you will be mistook for one of the puppets...there is much paranoia within...but just keep blogging anyway...care factor?
Posted by: lailaj at April 27, 2008 11:55 PM
You seem to be linking faith to religion....a total misconception. The truly faitthful dont need to be a part of any religion; after all, man invented religion and, whether you like it or not, man invented god...not vice versa!!
Bob
Posted by: notgodsgift at April 27, 2008 7:33 PM
Bob
Man invented God?
That might explain the different qualities attributed to God in the Bible, In the old testament, he is portayed as a grumpy old man who got one of his faithful servants to put his son on an alter and sacrifice him, only to later relent, and change his mind.
The new testament views sex as only OK between husband and wife.
Current church teachings dont go anywhere near sex, well most of the mainstram ones, Anglicans anyway. That is because all are acceptable, and accepted regardless of their sexual orientation.
So yes Bob, 3 occasions where God has been re-created in our image.
It doesnt get over the fact that we didnt get here by ourself. We didnt evolve from a single cell amoeba, or from monkees (HMMM spelling mistake 60's pop band)
The Universe didnt just create itself.
Many people believe in a life after death, a different reality and reincarnation, Jesus said his fathers house has many rooms, and he went off to prepare a place for us.
To me, its a matter of deciding what I dont believe, so that what is left, must be what I do believe.
Posted by: virgil at April 27, 2008 11:11 PM
Ahh jen jen
Redback spiders deserve all they get, the horrible little monsters, particularly the ones that hide under the toilet seat.
Posted by: virgil at April 27, 2008 10:54 PM
Tell me Virgil, do you believe in the Bible totally, or selectivly, as with a lot of your posts, I wonder how much thought you give them. Just have another read of your last paragraph on the post of 6.38 pm.
OG
Posted by: oldergent at April 27, 2008 7:21 PM
The Bible is basically 2 collections of stories, as with all history, told in the context of victors, one looks at what is written, then attempts to put themself in the picture. Like Jonah and the whale, do we really think a person could live for more than a few minutes inside a whale, a story to illustrate a point. I think the word for this is midrash.
The Bible describes a God who is unchanging, who makes the sun shine on all people, so it was written by people with the best understanding they had at the time.
In those days they believed in slavery, a flat earth. Written by men, it is their story, the good the bad and the ugly.
To get a meaning for us, we can put ourselves into the story,we can choose which character fits us at any given time. The character most likely would change, depending on how we were feeling at the time.
The concept of a virgin birth? do I believe that?
Documented proof exists that the followers of Jesus were persecuted yet still became more numerous.
History of the Roman Empire, was founded on the belief of a virgin birth, many Roman beliefs found their way into Christian tradition.
Do I believe in the virgin birth? Do we see virgins giving birth today? maybe we do, artificial insemination, would the God who created this place have better technology than us? most definitely.Do I believe Mary got pregnant without a man? No I dont.
I have faith in a greater power, I do not feel it is at all possible that we evolved from single cell amoeba.
The Bible is a book recounting the history of Gods people, describing God as best they could with the understanding of the world they had at the time.
Do I believe the Bible is to be understood as being needed to be taken literally word for word? No I dont.
The only people that feel that way, are TV evangelists, and some "Born again Christians".
Do I feel it is worthwhile and the stories have merit, and can bring peace to a troubled heart? Absolutely
Posted by: virgil at April 27, 2008 10:38 PM
mmediately after the first (and only) time they have sex, the female, who is 100 to 200 times their body weight, EATS THEM ALIVE.
Posted by: jenjen57 at April 27, 2008 10:19 PM
It's a bit like the divorce process really :)
Posted by: jovial67 at April 27, 2008 10:34 PM
JenJen, doesn't the black widow spider do something similar??
Maybe these arachnids have something after all... and here l am petrified of them.................K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 27, 2008 10:27 PM
Spare a thought also for the poor male redback spider.
While the females can live for up to two years, males live for only four to eight weeks.
Once they reach sexual maturity, they cease eating and focus solely on finding a mate.
Immediately after the first (and only) time they have sex, the female, who is 100 to 200 times their body weight, EATS THEM ALIVE.
Posted by: jenjen57 at April 27, 2008 10:19 PM
It's really a bit of a madhouse around here sometimes, isn't it? What follows is a potted history of my blog encounters here over the last couple of days....
On 25 April, I lodged a post commenting on Lynath's observations (she can be deadly accurate and hilarious at the same time, I'm sure many will agree), only to be derided by our resident misogynists, Marcus and Troy, who automatically assumed that I must also be female because I am "siding" with Lynath - a woman. After explaining that gender bias did not inform my views and refuting the erroneous assumption that they reflected my gender, Troy still didn't understand and asked "what the hell" I meant, so I posted a simpler explanation for him, citing the evidence for same. (It's all there in black and white.) Predictably, Marcus then launches one of his typical "obfuscatory" personal attacks (simultaneously admitting I was right, mind you - but kicking and screaming all the way, of course), to be followed up shortly thereafter by Decoratress implying that I was really someone else (what the..?).
Next came Troy again with 3 or 4 excited, reactionary posts one after the other, in rapid-fire succession, all banging on about ***** (as in, gonads, which Marcus had introduced into the conversation - some things never change), hermaphrodites, and.. um, ***** again, I think! With a few insults thrown in for good measure, naturally. Such a fuss, and still, I don't think Troy has really read any of my posts properly, because he seems to keep missing the point. (I don't think he's doing it deliberately like Marcus does though, as a ruse, for example. He is only the apprentice, after all, lol.) Either that, or he is just so fired up that he can't concentrate long enough to grasp anything beyond what he's going to write next, in defence of the sacred bastion of the boys' club.
I kind of gave up after that - I had other commitments - neverthless, one cannot reason with a closed mind, and this thing had come full circle as it were, without making any discernible progress.
So there you have it - just the experience of a somewhat infrequent blogger (but certainly not very encouraging for prospective would-be bloggers, is it?). As to what essentially prompted all this horror and indignation from our Philosophers Stoned in the first place? It was simply because I dared to agree with a woman, without necessarily being one.
Think on the ramifications of that one, bloggers!
Posted by: voltairen at April 27, 2008 10:19 PM
Want a husband? Whats wrong with you? I am between husbands and couldn;t be happier divorced in 1989 and my life is complete.............no degree either although I have been to uni and spent 3 years studying part-time and not a potential boyfriend let alone husband in sight.
Posted by: baznett at April 27, 2008 9:39 PM
Bob,
Could I suggest female preying mantises do that to prevent the inevitable crap that will no doubt follow??? I'm sure you know exactly where my tongue is planted as I type...
Posted by: victoriadownunder at April 27, 2008 9:37 PM
notgodsgift @ 9.09pm...
.. but does the female know he's going to do it? .. is the male honest & upfront about it..?
Posted by: decoratress at April 27, 2008 9:34 PM
Thanks for that Malsie
And no - not too much of a ramble :)
Posted by: stoic at April 27, 2008 9:13 PM
Hey Victoria,
The female preying mantis bites the males head off during copulation....he knows that before he goes there, and does it anyway....and women say us males have commitment issues!!!
Bob
Posted by: notgodsgift at April 27, 2008 9:09 PM
Peace and calm, Jen Jen, peace and calm....
Marcus is so interested in biology, he probably would go out with a preying mantis. Ha ha...that's where it would pay to know the absolutely solid differences between males and females, isn't it?. Better take my own advice, I must be positive.
Posted by: waterbombe at April 27, 2008 8:50 PM
Hi jenjen!... (8.24pm)
ooh, yeah.... & we couldn't have that, could we (grin..)
Che
ps: ..nice to 'meet' you, by the way!
Posted by: decoratress at April 27, 2008 8:49 PM
Ha LailaJ, l had to say that one out loud..haha...............K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 27, 2008 8:44 PM
decoratress at April 27, 2008 7:42 PM
I hope you realise I am sitting here, fingers hovering over the keyboard, reading and reading waterbombes post urging peace and calm.............:))
Gee it's hard to fight the urge to throw sand all over the place sometimes !! But that would be very hypocritical hey ....he he :))
Posted by: jenjen57 at April 27, 2008 8:24 PM
Hi, Stoic � the difference to me, in a nutshell, is that spirituality comes from
�within� and religion is imposed from �without�; from others who have decided upon a set of rules and dogmas � (however arbitrary they may be, in my opinion).
Spiritual belief can mean many things to different people. It can be a belief in a higher power, in things like reincarnation, that our soul continues on after our body dies, or a whole myriad of things, or just a deep connection to life, people, to nature; still a feeling of something greater than ourselves, even if it�s not thought of as relating to a �higher power� as such.
Many �religions�, to my thinking, attempt to regulate and control what people do and how they behave (hence the kind of atrocities that are committed in the �name of religion�). I cannot see any link to any kind of basic spiritual belief in that, just a man-made corruption of what was perhaps once coming from a more loving and balanced place but has now become a means of dominance.
Many people undeniably get huge amounts of peace and support from their spiritual beliefs (as do I). But I don�t see �religion� as supplying that, but the spiritual beliefs behind it, which you don�t need to follow any particular religion to feel. If people are happy being part of a religion or church I think that�s fine for them, just not something I wish for myself. Hope that�s not too much of a ramble....
Posted by: malsie at April 27, 2008 8:20 PM
See you at the end of May, Bob, looking forward to it:)) Brk, brrk, brrrrrrrk....
Posted by: lailaj at April 27, 2008 8:19 PM
Isn't it a calm forum today with the absence of the ah, um, er.... more contoversial posters?? Gee, I hope it wasn't a preying mantis Marcus went out with last night!!
Posted by: victoriadownunder at April 27, 2008 8:16 PM
femalepersuasion @ 9.57am (to jenjen)...
"I take it by your comment that you are implying that it is acceptable to denigrate someone as long as you know them. Spare me and others from your hypocrasy".
femalepersuasion @ 4.50pm...
"jenjen57- my comments were generic in origin and in no way a reflection of you. Isnt this what repeatedly occurs on these blogs though, misperception, misconstrued words and thoughts, not to mention reactionary and defensive posts and contra posts?
FP.. Calling someone a hypocrite on an assumption you made.. which, as it happens was wrong.. um..
..who, exactly, is misconstruing? misconceiving? I merely queried your assumption.
If that's all it takes to be labelled 'reactionary'.. (even generically!) hahaha..
.. just call me che guevara!
Posted by: decoratress at April 27, 2008 7:42 PM
Hi All,
Religion isn't just Christianity....and more people and nations have been devastated in the name of religion than for any other reason....and what did the faithful do whilst their leaders were engaging in all of this....in the main they went quietly about their day to day business.....with little protest.
You seem to be linking faith to religion....a total misconception. The truly faitthful dont need to be a part of any religion; after all, man invented religion and, whether you like it or not, man invented god...not vice versa!!
Bob
Posted by: notgodsgift at April 27, 2008 7:33 PM
waterbombe at April 27, 2008 5:41 PM
Well said............have resisted the urge to buy into any of it, but of course you can only be so good for so long :))
Posted by: jenjen57 at April 27, 2008 7:30 PM
Okies, Bob best we all be off to the henhouse for a bit of maitenance......
Dr Bombe, agree totally, life is far too short to be bothered.
Virgil some good points there and agree with you on them.
That mainstream religion gives comfort to many is beyond doubt in my mind....
That religious extremists cause more angst and violence is beyond doubt a in my mind also.
Now this may set the cat onto the pigeons so to speak but let us try to have a decent conversation, not one that descends into a rabble of accusations and counterproductive argument.....Possibly we are a bit over that..
After all we are all adults here are we not?...........................K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 27, 2008 7:25 PM
Many people have done many bad things in the name of religion, and in the name of God.
This doesnt make religion or God, bad, just the vehicle many oppotunistic leaders have chosen, particularly church leaders who wanted to keep trhe Bible written in Latin, so the average person couldnt read it and therefore know they were being deceived and controlled.
Power trips by the rich and famous have been going on throughout history and continue.
Posted by: virgil at April 27, 2008 7:24 PM
Tell me Virgil, do you believe in the Bible totally, or selectivly, as with a lot of your posts, I wonder how much thought you give them. Just have another read of your last paragraph on the post of 6.38 pm.
OG
Posted by: oldergent at April 27, 2008 7:21 PM
Oh great, we can have a hen, sorry, old boiler party, Bob. Good points, Stoic. I"m over dictatorships as well.
Posted by: waterbombe at April 27, 2008 6:40 PM
and religion is the root of all evil...Posted by: notgodsgift at April 27, 2008 2:52 PM .
ahh Bob Religion is a comfort to many, a way to try and make sense of things in very trying times.
A wild generalisation like that is fairly unhelpful, particularly to fair minded Christians who agree with most of what you say.
All areas of human relationships have their ratbags, for Christians, it is those that as you say bash their bibles and try and impose their beliefs on others. Particularly TV evangelists, who are the worst.
Most church going Christians go about what they do, quietly, without desire or need to impose their values on others, and by extension, not allowing others values to be imposed on them.
Members of the church I attend march with the WA Gay pride people in support of them, do not have views on abortion coming down from "above" but make up their own minds with full regard that ultimately, the choice is with the woman/mother.
Posted by: virgil at April 27, 2008 6:38 PM
Yeah let's not get too obnoxious about the whole religion thing since the biggest mass murderers in history (Mao, Stalin, and Lenin) were all secular regimes which forbade religion.
And interesting comment, Malsie. Exactly what do you mean by spiritual beliefs and how does it differ to typical religious beliefs?
Posted by: stoic at April 27, 2008 6:22 PM
Hi Malsie,
Hey thanks, but I did say we were good guys if you can see past those traits...besides, if you cant give yourself a serve you are a pretty sad sort of individual!!
Just on topic here for a minute...no-one has mentioned the obvious..."Want a husband, buy a gun"!! Most guys seem to prefer marriage to getting their **** shot off...well they did in my dads day when you got a girl pregnant.....the girl or the gun!! Being me, I would take the gun...not that I didn't like the girl!!!
I am coming to Melbourne at the end of May so hope to catch up with you and the other "desperate, man hungry old boilers" then!!!!
Bob
Posted by: notgodsgift at April 27, 2008 5:46 PM
To Dr Wishful, Dr Aunty, Dr Decoratress, Dr Jen Jen, Dr Laila, Dr FP, Dr Malsie, Dr Brilliant, Dr Amber, Dr Amdoingit and Dr Sapphire:
Don't let Marcus stir up a fight between the women. He's probably enjoying that. He has set up a pattern on this blog of destructive argumentation and it will take a bit of effort to shift that. We will have to be conscious of not continuing to fight on the blog, so lets do that and make an effort to move on and not fight with each other.
There isn't a woman OR a man on this blog who agrees with Marcus' extreme views ...he's in a corner on his own. Let's leave him there to contemplate his navel while we get on with sharing positive ideas and thoughts.
In that respect, Dr Notgodsgift, I agree with you about religion...too much damage done to men and women and children...I'm over it.
Yours,
Dr Waterbombe.
Posted by: waterbombe at April 27, 2008 5:41 PM
Given all that I've read below this whole situation appears to me to be most clearly stated by my belief in the three realities. To assist you I'll elaborate.
Reality 1. The words as written by the author with the authors intended meaning.
Reality 2. The words as read and interpreted by the reader.
Reality 3. In fact the TRUE reality. The words as they exist on the computer screen (in this scenario). These exist without interpretation and cannot offend.
The conclusion? If someone's written words offend you you can't really blame them for YOUR interpretation.
The prosecution rests.
D.
Posted by: justanormal1 at April 27, 2008 5:15 PM
notgodsgift - I agree with you entirely about atrocities that are carried out in the name of "God" - I have no time for that sort of religion either; to me it's nonsense (not spiritual beliefs, but that kind of behaviour and justification).
But definitely don't agree with your estimation of yourself in the other topic, other than the age! I know it was poetic licence (naturally) and it raised a smile from moi....
Posted by: malsie at April 27, 2008 5:09 PM
jenjen57- my comments were generic in origin and in no way a reflection of you. Isnt this what repeatedly occurs on these blogs though, misperception, misconstrued words and thoughts, not to mention reactionary and defensive posts and contra posts?
Kaz, to answer your question...if you disagree with a post, then say so by all means.Quite a few bloggers however try to interpret what someone else has said, interpret it as they see fit and denigrate any one with a differing opinion.
The written word can be taken so many ways, especially in this type of forum due to the fact that comments can be taken in so many ways, just for the mere fact that there are so many posts, that do not necessarily lead on to fliud posts.
Try and look at the big picture. I am sure you are all wonderful people in real life..except for Marcus..just kidding!!!..you too dude :)
Posted by: femalepersuasion at April 27, 2008 4:50 PM
Posted by: femalepersuasion at April 27, 2008 9:57 AM
I am not suggesting anyone should ever denigrate anyone, of course. Am just perplexed at Marcus' ongoing viciousness towards wishful (whom I do know ).
And for the record I would never swear at you, or Marcus, or anyone else.
Posted by: jenjen57 at April 27, 2008 4:05 PM
To all women,
As a man, I dont think that I have any rights whatsoever in determining what you choose to do with your body....our bodies are perhaps the only thing that we truly posses in this day and age (and one doubts that also).
The truth is that governments legislate due to the hectoring of self-interested lobbyists with varying agendas...usually religious when it comes to the issue of abortion...and religion is the root of all evil....sorry, but the bible-bashers really piss me off because they have no problem prosecutiing the destruction of people and nations just to push their own beliefs.
So, to all the women, do your own thing, its your body....and to all the guys, think about your reaction if it was deemed that you should be castrated because unwanted pregnancy was your fault!!
Soap-box now free!!
Bob
Posted by: notgodsgift at April 27, 2008 2:52 PM
Femalepersuasion, just a question. If l disagree with an opinion that has been expressed, am l not by extension disagreeing with the person who has expressed the opinion ??....................K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 27, 2008 2:51 PM
femalepersuasion @ 1.25pm...
"If you disagree with my comments or any one elses, disagree and back them up with your own arguments. But for you to to say that "she no way implied.." How do you know what she implied??? May be you are talking privately and distorting what was actually said. This appears to happen quite a bit on the blogs and has actually destroyed healthy debate on this forum"
FP.. I repeat what I said..
"She in no way implied that it was acceptable to denigrate someone you DO know... that's a ridiculous assumption to make. I'm sure jenjen (who, for the record, I don't know) is not advocating any form of denigration..
Going further & accusing her of hypocrisy seems a little.. well.. combative?"
I don't have the pleasure of knowing jenjen.
I said in my post "who, for the record, I don't know". That seems pretty clear to me.
I assumed from her past posts, that she would not- like most well balanced & well meaning people- be advocating denigrating anyone...
Assumptions are dangerous, I know.. but you yourself, assumed jenjen opined that it was 'ok to denigrate someone you knew..'
I didn't read her post that way at all, & commented so.
So, for your satisfaction, FP.. I shall assume nothing, & ask.
jenjen @ April 26, 11.23pm...
Jenjen... did you mean it was ok to denigrate someone you DO know? (I, of course don't think you did... but have to ask for the sake of PC, obviously...)
marcus @ most of the time...
Marcus... I'm sure you haven't been offended by my saying your manner/s could sometimes do with a little tweaking... have you?
Posted by: decoratress at April 27, 2008 2:04 PM
femalepersuasion, there were a few words in decoratress's post that you referred to which reveal in fact her comments were in no way associated to any relationship outside the blogs - being: "(who, for the record, I don't know)".
Posted by: malsie at April 27, 2008 1:52 PM
Post by: decoratress at April 27, 2008 11:49 AM
I dont know you and I dont know her, but I go on written words, not hearsay, or by talk outside the blogs.
If you disagree with my comments or any one elses, disagree and back them up with your own arguments. But for you to to say that "she no way implied.." How do you know what she implied??? May be you are talking privately and distorting what was actually said. This appears to happen quite a bit on the blogs and has actually destroyed healthy debate on this forum.
As I said, I dont know you or her, but your lack of lateral objective thought is evident by your lack of a valid argument and your reactionary posts.
Which was my point all along..disagree with peoples comments by all means,but do it without getting personal. If you dont agree with what Marcus has said, say so.
Marcus may not seem to have manners to you..so tell him that..dont project it on to me. My point about the swear words was used as an example to highlight the occurrence of this phenomenon right throughout the blogs ad infinitum. By lots of people.
And Marcus, no matter what your personal opinions are on sex/pregnancy/ contraception/ abortion, or any one elses opinion for that matter..State & Federal law have already detemined what the legal responsibilities are to protect the childs rights, the maternal rights as well as the paternal rights.
Wishful, iaminperth and Marcus..Troy...all different and interesting opinions. Disagree with these opinions if you dont agree, but not the person.
If you support comments by bloggers that you have the priviledge of knowing outside the blogs, then that is great. But if you dont know the bloggers, try and give and objective opinion to their argument rather than giving a reactionary opinion that has more to do with your friendship and the defence of your friend, rather than the argument at hand.
Posted by: femalepersuasion at April 27, 2008 1:25 PM
It appears Marcus has very little insight into females from his posts.His posts are over simplied from a male perspective on a topic that is very complicated and cannot be generalised!
I agree with others you need to get out more and experience life!
BB
Posted by: brilliantblue at April 27, 2008 12:46 PM
femalepersuasion @ 9.57am...
"I take it by your comment that you are implying that it is acceptable to denigrate someone as long as you know them. Spare me and other from your hypocrasy"...
FP.. jenjen said..
"Why you continue to denigrate someone you don't know is beyond me. Easy target ? Just because you can ?
Forget the degree, some manners wouldn't go astray".
1) She in no way implied that it was acceptable to denigrate someone you DO know... that's a ridiculous assumption to make. I'm sure jenjen (who, for the record, I don't know) is not advocating any form of denigration..
Going further & accusing her of hypocrisy seems a little.. well.. combative?
2) "..some manners wouldn't go astray".
OK.. hands up those who think Marcus's manner/s couldn't occasionally do with a little, um.. tweaking?
Why on earth would jenjen respond to your objective opinion with swear words, name calling & protestations? Where does that 'objective' comment come from?
Posted by: decoratress at April 27, 2008 11:49 AM
I had a great weekend away,and I see on return that Marcus has attempted to hijack the blog in a particularly dreadful way. The women on here are more than a match for you, Marcus, intellectually and ethically. Iaminperth, you are right, Marcus is NEVER going to say "Ladies, you know more about this than I do" in any discussion at all. I think that Marcus needs to get out more...he spends an inordinate amount of time blogging. Why don't we encourage him to get out more by simply not responding to his posts? That way, he wouldn't get the stimulation he obviously gets from verbal abuse and repetitive argument. He might actually venture outside to encounter other people, even women, who might teach him a thing or two. Let's just tell him his comment is not worth a response, and move on to other more productive (and less painful) discussions.
Posted by: waterbombe at April 27, 2008 11:37 AM
Sorry G,
Wasn't trying to "dangle" anything really.
I was just stating the futility of trying to have a rational discussion with someone so confident that their views are always superior and so set in their ways!!
Posted by: amberlight58 at April 27, 2008 11:26 AM
Amber.. that's a bit like dangling a carrot isn't it?? Certainly not letting it lie!!!! .."G"
Posted by: amdoingit at April 27, 2008 11:00 AM
Iaminperth, you are right.
Marcus is NEVER going to say "Ladies, you know more about this than I do, perhaps I didn't understand all the issues", is he?
A bit like flogging a dead horse really.
Posted by: amberlight58 at April 27, 2008 10:49 AM
Here here Perth. Please all move on.
Posted by: timewarp1 at April 27, 2008 10:39 AM
Well said iaminperth
Posted by: saphires4me at April 27, 2008 10:15 AM
The way to stop this dreadfully distressing topic is to stop responding to it. Please stop now everyone as this is a terrible way to discuss an incredibly sensitive issue and a lot of people could get hurt.
Posted by: iaminperth at April 27, 2008 10:06 AM
Why you continue to denigrate someone you don't know is beyond me. Posted by: jenjen57 at April 26, 2008 11:23 PM
Isn't that what everyone does on these blogs? That's been my observation over many months. I dare say you will reply to this objective observation of mine with swear words, name calling and the protestation that you "know " and have "met" people. I take it by your comment that you are implying that it is acceptable to denigrate someone as long as you know them.Spare me and others from your hypocrasy.
Posted by: femalepersuasion at April 27, 2008 9:57 AM
Wishfulthinker...my thirdgraders do not name call...it is just bad manners...a tactic used by losers of an argument to try to dominate and humiliate when they are floundering...doesn't work, does it?
Marcus is making it highly obvious what happens when women do have a degree, or a high degree of intelligence...worth thinking about...:))
Posted by: lailaj at April 27, 2008 9:49 AM
Marcus you have been shown where you went wrong, however, you just can't see it. So...here we go again, then hopefully we can just leave it be as you are wearing very thin with your constant hounding and now slandering.
My comment in response to your posting was "that is just the way some women are" refers solely to having an abortion. It is not my fault if your pig-headedness will not allow you see that. So there you have it Marucs, pure and simply - this is where you went WRONG.
You may drop the Dr. as I NEVER said I was studying for my doctorate, simply working towards it. Not my fault again if you jump to conclusions is it? Currently finishing my Honours work and what I'm studying is of no business of yours and I simply choose not to discuss it with you here. As for your remark that I'm in the process of buying my degree from the US, I hardly think so. I'm working full time, raising two amazing children, and thankfully the government is paying for my research degree here. They will also be supporting my doctorate WHEN I start it. Get your facts right and lighten up on the accusations thanks.
I have never lied by omission here, have no idea what you are talking about and I have no hatred of men - just a severe dislike to the pig-headed, thesaurus-carrying kind that can't stand the fact that they've been caught out and taken to task.
Marcus I just don't understand why you spend your days and nights it would seem blogging and dominating and forcing your opinion on others. Go get a life outside of the blogs and I'd appreciate it if you (a) didn't resort to name calling, that's so third grade and (b) leave me out of your crap from here on in. You have successfully driven others off the blogs for disagreeing with you - in a very unpleasant way - it wont happen with me though so give up trying.
For those women on here who have suffered the trauma of a miscarriage, myself included, it'd be nice if you'd also lay off the home-doctoring explanations. We know what it is, we also know how it feels, something you, as a non-child carrying gender, would have no idea about.
Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 27, 2008 9:15 AM
I attended a 50th Birthday celebration there Perth.
A great place.
Chilly here to expected max 15 degrees today
Posted by: virgil at April 27, 2008 9:00 AM
Want a husband? Get a degree!! what in the hell does this have to do about abortions etc. This is a subject very dear to many people - mis carriage the female carries that baby for life - an abortion is not necessarily a choice any one wants to make and when it is a matter of life and death especially with twin to twin syndrome there quite often has to be a choice to abort the one who is not thriving for the safety of the other twin- Once again yes it is a joint medical decision but the men move on women carry that guilt for life. Until you men can carry a baby you are not qualified to make a comment you do not know the emotional torment that is carried for life when a baby dies. I hope this is the end of this subject but it just shows F-----still have no idea - If you were trying to bait people you really haven't done that but confirmed why you are still single. Have you heard of a brain
Posted by: saphires4me at April 27, 2008 8:50 AM
Yes you were, show some, umm, balls and admit it. You want to chuck it around whilst still being considered the fair, open,lady who does not condescend to petty personal attack. But we know the truth don't we pet, chuckle chuckle.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 26, 2008 2:48 PM
Hi Troy,
Knew it wouldn't take you too long!
Yes, I was picking on the spelling of that particular word, because if you are going to try to insult someone, at the very least try to ensure that your insults are spelt correctly!!
Actually Troy I don't care what people think of me.
As I have stated in a previous post, (although I try not to be!!) I can be as big a bitch as the next person, on a bad day!
I know you thrive on being obnoxious at times, but your insults often resemble the kind of conversation that is heard in the primary school playground.
Nearly 20 years ago, I was elected to Local Government in a rural council area that had never had a woman as an elected member before.
Believe me Troy, whatever you could throw at me could never match the kind of condescending and malicious cr*p I got for the first few months after being elected, from the (nowadays called) CEO, the Chairman and most of the other elected members!!
I'm curious Troy, where does the term "pet" come from? Have you been watching too many old British sitcoms?!
Marcus,
I gather all your needling of Wishful and others is based on a bloke you knew who got an "agreement" from a woman he had sex with, that if she accidently got pregnant she would have a termination. And then she did get pregnant and reneged on the "deal".
First of all, what kind of a person was this bloke? Did he have any understanding of women at all?
I can only agree with others, that this woman must never have been pregnant before, otherwise why would she be willing to agree to such a ridiculous request!
I can remember as a young woman blithely thinking "if I ever got pregnant accidentally, I'd just have the child adopted".
After actually becoming pregnant a number of years later, I felt completely different!
I could never just give my child away.
Your "friend" or whoever he was, was pretty naive and stupid himself, to assume that it would all just be so easy!
If not fathering a child was so important to him, then he should have thought about it a litttle bit more!
I have told my older boys, that if they don't think they could stomach meeting the girl every couple of weeks or so, at handover time; and don't want to be paying Child Support for a child they hardly ever see, for the next 18 years or so, think carefully before they have sex with her!
Because no matter how careful you are, unless one of the partners has had a vasectomy or a tubal occlusion, "accidents" do happen every now and then. Even "permanent" methods such as these are not 100% guaranteed!
Which is another good reason for blokes to stop beng "victims" of their testosterone and think with their brains instead, Marcus!!
Posted by: amberlight58 at April 27, 2008 1:34 AM
decoratrix @ 10.42pm, quoting Kaz earlier:
Not completely true at present, I believe. To me it seems that Mr Svengali has the whole Troupe on a very short rein. Looks like "best behaviour" to me.
Retiring a character and replacing it with a new one is just a product life-cycle thing - standard marketing policy.
But having a couple of characters' busking licences revoked is bad for the whole troupe's reputation, and worth trying to avoid a recurrence.
I'm looking forward to ongoing entertainment from the Troupe, with further attacks only on hard targets, and delivered with more wit than damage, like the good old days.
Looks as if Karina's hit the hay. Good idea. Seeyezall.
Posted by: timewarp1 at April 27, 2008 12:34 AM
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 10:26 PM
Suggest you read the post from wishfulthinker at 8.26pm.
Why you continue to denigrate someone you don't know is beyond me. Easy target ? Just because you can ?
Forget the degree, some manners wouldn't go astray.
Posted by: jenjen57 at April 26, 2008 11:23 PM
Thanks Kaz, a rather nasty subject really and certainly upsetting for some people I would think. I agree with your comments and enough is enough.
Posted by: iaminperth at April 26, 2008 11:19 PM
Camelot in Mosman Park has a wonderful blues night with a live jazz band and freshly shucked oysters with wine. Bit chilly at the moment but nice to rug up in winter clothes and a big rug and then settle back and watch a good European movie, that's my idea of a good night out, good company, good food and a lovely warm rug to snug under.
Posted by: iaminperth at April 26, 2008 10:55 PM
Bottom line Marcus....then no more from me.
You are well aware of what you have written.
Your attempts to hijack a topic have been questioned by many and the cracks are showing when you are challenged......
People may not be bothered with your comments in future as your track record is well documented.......Have a nice time at your music thing........
And lastly, for goodness sake ease up...........K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 26, 2008 10:47 PM
auntykaz @ April 26, 4.33pm...
"I don't have a problem with people who don't have a profile visible..... never have really.
What l do have a problem with is those who have multiple profiles or reappear with another profile after being booted off for whatever reason....usually offensive in nature.
They generally want to do nothing but cause unwanted and unwarranted angst and trouble is what l'm just saying..."
Exactly my opinion, kaz.. & very topical at the moment.
So.. to stay on topic..
..one doesn't need a degree to recognise them.
Posted by: decoratress at April 26, 2008 10:42 PM
So much for my attempt at calling it quits for tonight. A quick peek at this topic and I have to comment..
OG @ 7.12pm.. agree with you.. Only condone abortion for rape, etc but not as a form of contraception. I think that applies to most people..
As a woman who has 5 miscarriages plus a stillbirth to her name I am finding this way too much.. It really has managed to get out of hand... SO ...Can we please drop it.. Call, a truce or do whatever but it needs to stop...
I can, as an outsider looking in, see where you are each coming from. You all have valid points but this is a storm in a teacup and is not going to calm without intervention so??????? Agree to disagree or whatever but shelve it...PLEASE!!!!!
Cheers..."G"
Posted by: amdoingit at April 26, 2008 10:35 PM
Aunty.
Hope you are enjoying your Saturday evening. My lovely date is about to arrive and we are going to enjoy some live blues music.
My posts are all there, even the post- modern one I wrote for lonelyheart, some minus a couple of minor censorings. Sorry, your 'the evidence is now missing' claim won't hold water.
Can we agree that it is women who become pregnant?
Dr.Wishful.
You haven't shown anything I've said 'wrong'. On the contrary you have made reprehensible, misandrist statements and lied by omission.
I'm still waiting to hear about what it is you are doing your doctorate in. Just a thought. Perhaps you are waiting for the cheque to clear and it to mail in from the US?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 10:26 PM
I think this is Marcus idea of foreplay and if he had anything to do he wouldn't be on here posting all the time.
Posted by: iaminperth at April 26, 2008 9:46 PM
Oh, and my personal opinion on terminating a pregnancy??? No. I would not do it. Timewarp l am with you on this. The emotional cost to me would have been too high.
Not to say that is my opinion on anyone else, as it certainly isn't.
Is this because l have children, and know the feeling of having a baby inside me???
Most probably.........K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 26, 2008 9:31 PM
Lailaj April 26, 2008 5:57 PM
No one is talking about an unborn child. The vast majority of abortions are spontaneous and involve a mass of cells no more numerous than the ones which die when you scratch your nose. Hardly a person. An early induced abortion removes a mass of cells with no nervous system. Hardly a person. The unfortunate man in the situation I described is a nervous system owning, fully functioning, sentient being who obviously deserves consideration. Anyway the moment of birth provide the natural Rubicon for defining rules here.
And I am not advocating abortion as contraception, nor do I hear any one else do it.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 9:04 PM
Marcus, go back and read your posts.....all of them.... especially the one that says that some of your lengthy posts have been censored. Either Wednesday or Thursday.
Its there.......
One that you won't be able to read is the one where you dropped the "F" bomb to waterbombe in its entirety...that has been removed. Strangely, on Wednesday or Thursday that one too.
As for Wishful delivering a huge ethical clanger???..That is more likely your domain, Marcus.
You are draining....lighten up for goodness sake...............K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 26, 2008 8:51 PM
Well okay, Marcus.....Have l said "it's just the way it is for women"? Nope l haven't.
posted by AuntyKaz
No Kaz, that was what I said way back when referring to some women just will not have an abortion. However, it, according to Marcus, is an "ethical clanger" - for whatever reason he deems fit to hang on it. He misread something and has been barking up the wrong tree ever since. Like a dog with a juicy bone - just wont give up.
Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 26, 2008 8:30 PM
And when all else fails...Marcus resorts to constantly reiterating his points already shown to be wrong and continues to revert to childish name calling. Marcus, may I suggest you just leave me out of your diatribe if you can't have the civility to address me by my name. NEVER have I said I had my doctorate - you misread like you usually do, then try desperately to keep hammering your incorrect points home. Grow up Marcus, you are wearing very thin.
Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 26, 2008 8:26 PM
lailaj.
Only in some cases, rape, incest, can I condone abortion, never as an agreement to consent to copulation. The reason I love the smell of burnt gunpowder along with a lot of other people, Now such unjust claims against men can at a reasonable cost be disputed, it puts the level back in the field.
Just think if his mother had have thought like him, ei Oh Lord I might have to abort this one he may grow up to be a womaniser and antagonise a lot of women when he grows up, and have some poor oldergent defend him against these women he gets rabid.
Then again mum it might have been a good idea.
Cheers OG
Posted by: oldergent at April 26, 2008 7:12 PM
lailaj at 5:57pm: I'm with you Babe, (the song, not the ongoing Earl prohibition) And with Firelight at 5.04pm.
Now that the world's already seriously overpopulated, it seems to me that reliable proactive embroyo prevention has to be the go, rather than the reactive retrospective third-party interventions which are for most unselfish people an awful emotional and ethical minefield.
Prehistoric New Guinea natives pioneered irrigated farming, long before the credited Middle East, and also pioneered mechanical contraception, perhaps before ancient Egypt got onto the spermicidal vinegar and honey mixture, recently changed into a half-lemon diaphragm for the third world.
Nowadays it's no longer about whistling Dicksie, but if a bloke really needs to be as sure as Marcus seems to be, that he won't ever ever be out of pocket for paternity, the snip seems to be the most uncomplicated and reliable alternative to granny-grabbing, IMHO.
Posted by: timewarp1 at April 26, 2008 6:46 PM
I have a bottle of Grange left over here somewhere..
Kaz, I wasn't talking about contraception and you know it. You also know that as well as being unable to argue honestly Dr.Wishfulstinker has delivered a huge ethical clanger.
None of my posts in this thread or others have been deleted. You are mistaken about that as well. Posts not initially accepted have been later entered.
I am certainly not being censured by the moderator or anyone else.
A **** might have been removed from one.. So where are the demonstrably, sexist comments? Do you mistake my robust language for something else?
I will own up to a bit of deriding though if the situation warrants it.
Marcus xx
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 6:24 PM
Oldergent, I do understand his...m's... points, and agree to some, but I cannot correlate the ethical differences between a broken promise to a man and aborting an unborn child.
Posted by: lailaj at April 26, 2008 5:57 PM
Hi lialaj.
Unfortunately in the past I have seen the case where females have found themselves pregnant and have gone and seduced the male of their choice within a few days of their failed cycle and claimed him with the fatherhood. I have also seen the same charge made without intercourse having taken place and in a county town it usually ended in marriage. In the case of the male not marrying he was then lumbered with the financial cost till the child was 16. One such mate of mine was paying for 3 such children (1 his 2 later proved not to be) so I can understand Marcus and his attitude. I quiet often joust with him, but he, in this matter has points that females do not understand, and I suppose never will. As always two sides.
Cheers OG
Posted by: oldergent at April 26, 2008 5:27 PM
Right with you there OG - no sex for Marcus sounds like a good idea - lol!
As far as Auntykaz's comment I believe that in general once a woman has carried a child to term it is a very different proposition to consider termination, compared to a woman who has not done so. This is I am aware, a generalisation it does however often hold true. Maybe this is especially true if a fling within a marriage results in pregnancy - erring husbands do not often bring the cuckoo into the nest, it is possible though that they leave it in someone elses.
Why don't we just agree that people regardless of gender are capable of both loyalty and infidelity at times?
If bible rules were applied and thinking about infidelity were as bad as actually participating then there would be a lot of us holding stones surrounded by falling glass!
Posted by: firelightlady at April 26, 2008 5:04 PM
Well okay, Marcus.....Have l said "it's just the way it is for women"? Nope l haven't.
Nor have l avoided answering your query on Wishfulthinker, l stated my opinion on contraception as that is what l thought you were referring to.
The topic between you and she has gotten slightly convoluted to say the least. Maybe you could point me in the direction of the original argument if you really want me to comment, suffice to say that l do not line up with anyone, Marcus, horizontally proliferating female reactionaries or otherwise.
l state MY thoughts just as you do yours.
I actually did go back and attempt to find some comments that l felt were sexist, particularly when you were debating with Waterbombe a few days back.
You may or may not have noticed that a lot of your posts of late have been deleted Marcus... why would you think that is??
Maybe the moderators find your comments logically and ethically flawed to the masses and have responded accordingly. After all your logic and ethics are not everyone elses and vice versa.
"The PC status quo leans towards the female position. I don't feel compelled to put girls on pink pedestals and I speak here using my blokey argot unapologetically and uncringingly and proudly. It seems anything objectively critical of the female logical position or favoring the males is greeted with howls or derided as boys nonsense rather than being logically examined".
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 4:22 PM
Marcus; l do not feel compelled to put blokes on a pretty blue pedestal either.
Use your blokey talk all you like, but accord women the same right to use their so called feminist talk as well. You are not backward in coming forward in questioning what women say, Marcus, so one would possibly think that the same is afforded to to anyone who would question you also....
Only fair to allow both points of view the same right to be heard l think.......
Now pour me a nice glass of red wine Marcus dear and we can continue.........K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 26, 2008 5:04 PM
You are flippantly encouraging women to disregard this solemn pledge to a man.
By anyones reckoning on such a fundamental issue that is a hideous ethical lapse.
Marcus...I find it ethically corrupt to even consider that breaking a promise to some irresponsible man...yes, yes, yes, she was there too... by actually having the child, instead of keeping said promise beyond my ability to comprehend....Oh I must kill my baby....I promised John...ha, ha!
The only time it is ethically wrong here is if said promise was indeed made and woman went on to try to enforce money etc...when the decision was hers alone.
Posted by: lailaj at April 26, 2008 4:42 PM
Ladies.
I think what my good friend Marcus (TIC) is saying is that abstinence is the best form of contraception and if you practice it with him there will be no unwanted pregnancies, ergo no abortions and no misunderstandings. Sounds a simple solution to me. lol, Plus it would end this tooing and froing.
Cheers OGre
Posted by: oldergent at April 26, 2008 4:38 PM
Troyboy, l think that you are referring to my comment about the "terrible two".
If so, that was said tongue in cheek, and if you took offence an apology is on the way.
I don't have a problem with people who don't have a pfofile visible..... never have really.
What l do have a problem with is those who have multiple profiles or reappear with another profile after being booted off for whatever reason....usually offensive in nature.
They generally want to do nothing but cause unwanted and unwarranted angst and trouble is what l'm just saying...
Now as regards to your sore jaw..... Put a smile on your dial, go outside into the wind and hey presto !! A permanet smile !!........................K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 26, 2008 4:33 PM
auntykaz April 26, 2008 2:53
Here we go Kaz. "It's just the way it is for a lot of women"
You have avoided answering my query on the ethics of Wishfulstinker unilaterally abrogating an agreement she made. I have gone out of my way to explain that the male in my hypothetical has made proper arrangements for contraception (& safe sex) and suggested abortion as an EMERGENCY CONTINGENCY.
Now, where is the example of my sexist language? Or are you just lining up with the horizontally proliferating female reactionaries? I would like you or anyone else to point out where anything I have said here is logically or ethically flawed.
The PC status quo leans towards the female position. I don't feel compelled to put girls on pink pedestals and I speak here using my blokey argot unapologetically and uncringingly and proudly. It seems anything objectively critical of the female logical position or favoring the males is greeted with howls or derided as boys nonsense rather than being logically examined.
Regarding logic v emotion. Of course logic has to underpin our complex lives. What are we going to have; emotion and faith? Faith is belief without logic; hope on steroids.
Now about my occasional corruption of peoples profile names. Given the amount of info about me in the blog domain I feel comfy assigning nick names to the odd blogger.
Cheers Marcus.
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 4:22 PM
Hi Marcus, I pick up all my dogs doo doos when we are out walking as it is not only hygenic, it is law and you can be fined heavily in WA. I have mucked out stables and delivered foals and also helped deliver 11 puppies safely and bottle fed most afterwards. I am more than happy to do it. My feeling is that women need to take charge of their own bodies and contraception is part of that and I couldn't give a pink doo doo if my partner or friend knew my cycle or not, doesn't interest me, nor would I wish to discuss it or childbirth or stomach aches or anything else of that nature because I just find it so boring. It also begs the question with all this unexpected pregnancy bit, what about the unexpected STD bit and why aren't condoms being used. If men want total control over contraception then take responsibility for your own actions and wear a condom., By the way, my dog is a female and is displaying all in the photo !
Posted by: iaminperth at April 26, 2008 3:39 PM
Wishful.
Read what I said, and have been saying consistently. The point I made was that the woman had already agreed with the man to have an abortion if contraception failed.
You are flippantly encouraging women to disregard this solemn pledge to a man.
By anyones reckoning on such a fundamental issue that is a hideous ethical lapse.
There is a religious belief subtext to your position here. Is your ethical position on the freedom to abrogate an agreement not to have a kid connected to the self -loathing that requires the backward notion of salvation?
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 3:35 PM
I'm seeing a whole handful of new phoenix callsigns taking on the old flesh and blood regulars and/or the ongoing puppets. (Or still sucking up to TLD, which she's certainly worth. Hey, I'd be in that....)
No namedropping from me, this time around. Zimbia in her interesting very-lightly-coded first post below at 9.43am on April 25 carefully explained to me that it's mean (and personally rather dangerous) to unmask shy people who need to hide behind their puppets, before they feel safe to interact in public.
I might add that it also spoils the fun for other amateur literary detectives.
.................................................................
The entertainment value of the blogs seems to have sagged recently. Everyone's still just saying what's appropriate to their past real lives or puppet back-stories, but as Firelight said yesterday, including less humour and entertainment value than we're used to.
And I'd add, including a lot more aggro than usual from both sides. Maybe it's fuelled by the savagely adversorial nature of warfare, very big in the front of our minds this particular weekend. And/or the associated intake of emotion-intensifying fluids.
One of the blokes at my place last night for itinerant monthly poetry was so high on Anzac Day that I would have taken him outside and hosed him down, if we hadn't been on Level 6 hosing restrictions.
If I'm correct, I hope the excessive aggro will die down soon, and we can get back to insulting one another with less heat, and more humour. Peace and love to youall.
Posted by: timewarp1 at April 26, 2008 3:32 PM
Hey Kaz, in all honesty, and with no intention to be controversial, do you honestly not see that, in my case with lynath, to aggressor was her in her personal attack directed at me?. It is of interest to me. Won't stop me having a crack at those who flock drone like (yes i know drones are male but you get the point, sorry voltaren) to the banner.
Try to be honest as I have been perplexed. Still think it's funny though, haha, ouch, hurts my jaw.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 26, 2008 3:14 PM
Posted by: voltairen at April 26, 2008 2:30 PM
Scroll down the posts to one from lynath to me where she has a crack at me as my profile is hidden. Can the goddess err, did you not notice this? I bet you didn't pal/pet. This is when I have shown my profile when requested by a blogger. Run and hide in obscurity as is appropriate. Running out of haha's, my jaw is hurting.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 26, 2008 2:59 PM
Posted by: voltairen at April 26, 2008 12:18 PM
So voltaren, are you saying you have balls. That would be a surprise.......whatever sex you are.
Bring it on with that one girls and whatever else you are hahaha.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 26, 2008 2:54 PM
Okay Marcus. l will address your comments..I think that addressing someone by their registered RSVP name to be common courtesy, regardless of whether or not you agree with their comments. That in itself is going to elicit a defensive response for a start, which then often leads to conflict.
Regarding the "terrible two, yes your assumption was correct, however, it was said with tongue in cheek, as l often do...
As for sexist comments, Marcus, what you may or may not understand is that the way you construct your posts reads, at times, quite derogatory to women. This has been pointed out to you several times. That may not be your intention, however that is how you come across and l am talking in general terms here. You at times insult those who disagree with or challenge you.
Some of your comments are very insightful and informative, and some are very funny, some are controversial. That is the way they come across to me, so this is my opinion on what you say.
No criticism there, just an answer to your question.
As for your question regarding wishfulthinker, l believe that contraception is the responsibility of both people in a relationship.
It should not be a given that the woman should take responsibility solely, after all it takes two to tango. Was that what you meant? Simple answer, yes, however l really don't think that EVERYTHING is based on black and white answers.
I know what my thoughts and beliefs are on most topics and try to be pragmatic in many ways, after all we are all so very different in thought and process.
Logic is an admirable thing to have, Marcus, but is logic applicable to everything in life?? A serious question for you there, taking into account that emotion often masks it.........................K
Posted by: auntykaz at April 26, 2008 2:53 PM
Posted by: amberlight58 at April 26, 2008 1:35 PM
Yes you were, show some, umm, balls and admit it. You want to chuck it around whilst still being considered the fair, open,lady who does not condescend to petty personal attack. But we know the truth don't we pet, chuckle chuckle.
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 26, 2008 2:48 PM
Posted by: voltairen at April 26, 2008 12:18 PM
Don't care if you are an hermaphrodite, you are still delusional. haha
Troy
Posted by: troyohboy at April 26, 2008 2:44 PM
And so we have more attempted baffling with bull.... from Marcus - plus the old stand-by of personal attacks combined with "obfuscatory" diversionary tactics.
Then, of course, the predictable rolling out of that old chestnut from his Philosophers Stoned school of thought, "you don't have the gonads to reveal yourself".
Last time I looked, it was not compulsory to have one's RSVP profile visible in order to post on these blogs, according to the RSVP terms and conditions. They are the ones who run this forum, are they not?
And what is your interest in my gonads anyway, Marcus? Oh yes, of course, they would add weight to my argument, wouldn't they, old boy?
Posted by: voltairen at April 26, 2008 2:30 PM
Sorry, justanormal1,
Another mistake! I re-read that post again and I did mean "misconstruing" (not misconstrued) in that particular paragraph.
Bother!! Another broken pane in my already draughty old glass-house!
Posted by: amberlight58 at April 26, 2008 2:24 PM
Hi Wishful, you're right My situation does put me in the minority (about 5% when it started and more like 15% now). My comment wasn't based on the 'so many' part of your statement but on the 'fathers' part. I wasn't accusing you of anything just hoping to put another perspective across, and only about that point - not the rest of the stoush.
Posted by: ynotalice at April 26, 2008 2:15 PM
This is copied from my original post that Marcus has spent large chunks of time attacking me for:
Many women simply wouldn't consent to an abortion for whatever reason Marcus, not just because of what you define as some sort of mental problem...it's just the way it is for a lot of females.
Where in that statement do you get what it is you are on about Marcus? That statement has nothing about women lying about contraception, merely that many do NOT agree with abortion and do not see it as a form of contraception.
Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 26, 2008 2:12 PM
Thankyou amberlight for understanding that I wasn't denigrating you or anyone else...just making a point....one that wasn't lost on me either....I could try and argue that I was using a Ricky Ricardo "tone" but since, I imagine, most of the people on here wouldn't know who I was talking about it's perhaps better to fall on my own sword.
As I said people in glass houses.....
D.
Posted by: justanormal1 at April 26, 2008 2:10 PM
I shall try this again Marcus as you keep on harping on about it. The statement you keep writing that I made about "just the way women are" was referring to abortions, NOT lying about contraception. Karina post this please and stop him harping on about something he has taken completely out of context by NOT reading correctly.
Also Marcus, I chose to ignore you as to what I am studying as you've totally misread that too.
Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 26, 2008 2:06 PM
voltairen @ April 25, 6:05pm
"Thankyou Decoratress and Virgil - the origins of my name encompass those and other elements".
I'm sure they do, justsaying.
Posted by: decoratress at April 26, 2008 2:01 PM
ynotalice...I wasn't aware that the words "so many" automatically became a generalisation. THAT was a statement directed at something Marcus had muttered - and you have done exactly what HE is accusing me of doing - taking it out of context.
Good on you for raising your children, and I'm sure you are doing a wonderful job of it, but you'd have to agree that statistics would put you in a minority as far as single parents go. THAT is not generalising either. Not sure what all this has to do with the topic, I was simply responding to Marcus who is rarely on topic and usually finds a way to turn the conversation around to suit himself. What does female menstrual cycles have to do with degrees anyway Marcus?
Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 26, 2008 1:54 PM
ynotalice at April 26, 2008 12:18 PM
Well said mate. There are legion stories like yours that often fly under the radar.
I mentioned a case where a friend of a friend was informed after a genetic test that he was not the father of one of his sons. Because of the guidlines that many doctors who have information on false paternity operate on, the disclosure rate of this type of fraud is quite low, possibly under 20%, but it's incidence could be as high as 15%- but more likely to be around 4%.
Unfortunately, Wishfulstinker's apalling "it's just the way it is for many women" ethically bankrupt attitude blythely justifies this horrible fraud on decent men and innocent kids.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 1:42 PM
Thanks justanormal1 for pointing that out, I did mean misconstrued!!
Actually I wasn't trying to denigrate Troy, for his spelling at all, Troy is usually a very good speller!
Just as I presume, you weren't trying to denigrate me by pointing out my "typo" error?
I guess the same applies to all of us, as you so franly pointed out to me, if you are going to try to insult someone, then it carries more weight if you use the correct spelling!
Believe me, Troy is more than capable of defending himself, (if you don't believe it keep an eye out for his response!) to me and others who dare to point out that his attitude towards women is less than admirable!
(I will point out to everyone that I also made a spelling mistake in my next post, I noticed it as I pressed "post" and for once it actually went through straight away!! Damn!!)
Posted by: amberlight58 at April 26, 2008 1:35 PM
voltairen at April 26, 2008 12:18 PM
'justsaying'?
Good point about the concluding that you must be female. But not good enough.
I assumed you were a cowardly 'it' bottle thrower because you don't have the gonads to reveal yourself
As far as me calling you a girl, I did that because the discussion was across gender lines and you aligned with the women.
Haha.
Chris's obfuscatory analysis (of what?) may or may not have been insightful but she was not able to make any headway at all on her contention that animals have no consciousness, rather fell face first into an ethical septic tank.
Cheers Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 1:17 PM
Sorry voltairen,
I thought you must have been a woman too, which is why I thought Troy was attacking you!
I suppose that this lends even more weight to my opinion, that Troy's attitude to women, especially those that dare to challenge his opinions and ideas, is appalling.
I would think that most reasonable people would find such an attitude, quite outmoded and inappropriate in today's more enightened society!
Posted by: amberlight58 at April 26, 2008 1:06 PM
Good comment from ynotalice @ 1217.
There are plenty of full-time and part-time solo fathers out there doing a great job raising their kids.
Also there are a lot of parents (both genders) who have contact with their children made so incredibly difficult by their ex partner that they give up and walk away hoping to reconnect later. And there are some people who simply couldn't care less about their kids.
I am sure most people know examples of both scenarios.
Anyone else having problems posting today???
Posted by: firelightlady at April 26, 2008 12:57 PM
iaminperth April 25, 2008 9:08 PM
Thanks Iampert.
An unlikely ally in my cause, and probably because you seem to exhibit extreme squeamishness when confronted by sigt or discussion of any bodily function, part or fluid. I really wonder how you go picking up Rex's? turds when you are awalking.
I have found most women more than willing to talk about menstruation and things to do with ovulation and fertility with a not uninformed male. If I am in a relationship it is generally a given that I will know when the gf has her period and various details to do with elimination of said endometrium. It is one of those areas of shared intimacy. Same as under the right circumstances I am not averse to having sex if she has her period; at least we know there is no pregnancy risk.
auntykaz April 25, 2008 8:44 PM
I assume you include me in your duo of terribles. Could you please remind me of one "pretty sexist statement" I've made that is either logically flawed or not qualified?
Re Wishful.
As you can see by Wishfuls reply to my post, her logical processes and inability or unwillingness to follow a blog thread and line of argument preclude me calling her a thinker.
Unfortunately for her it is virtually impossible to escape the fact that it is women who conceive.
Also unfortunately "it's just the way it is for a lot of females" was her justification for a woman to lie, cheat and abrogate arrangements about contraception; at the same time making males fully accountable. A serious question Kaz. Do you agree with her statement?
Earlier in the week, on topic here, Wishful you were bragging about doing a doctorate, which implies a thesis and some original research. I enquired about what area of study this was, and have received no reply. I ask again. Wishful, what is it you are doing your doctorate on?
Marcus
Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 26, 2008 12:56 PM
My two cents worth....gender aside 'cause franly my dear I don't give a damn either way....but amberlight58 when you start a post by denigrating someone via their spelling..."Get over yourself Troy!!
You accuse voltairen of sycophansy (I presume you meant sychophancy)"...then you should take EXTRA care in checking your own spelling....as in "you then accuse people (by that I suppose you mean women) of miscontruing your posts"...I presume YOU mean MISCONSTRUING?
People in glass houses!!!!
D.
Posted by: justanormal1 at April 26, 2008 12:32 PM
In reply to the query from: troyohboy at April 26, 2008 9:04 AM
Troy,
Reread the following post of yours, and tell me that you did not assume me to be a woman...
(Posted by: troyohboy at April 25, 2008 1:21 PM)
"...do you believe it appropriate I should now have a go at voltaren's sycophansy. (sic)
Her post directed at you referring to Marcus. I suppose it different as she is pandering to that gigantic ego. Get a room you two hahaha...(etc.)"
That is what "the hell" I am talking about, my dear fellow.
Marcus made the same mistake in the following post, reproduced below...
(Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 25, 2008 2:40 PM)
"voltairen at 12:00 PM,
amberlight58 at 1:04 PM,
phoenix.
Keep it up girls, you might not be having much luck with the blokes, Lynath with her debating, but she likes being, err, tongue kissed...(etc.)"
On the above evidence, both of you have leapt to the immediate conclusion that I must be a female. Why? Your judgements could only be based on my writings, in this case complimenting Lynath on her insightful analysis. Which begs the next question, why did both of you automatically assume that I was a woman, if not because of my stated view on Lynath's posting?
I hope that makes my previous post a little clearer for you. It's not exactly rocket science.
Posted by: voltairen at April 26, 2008 12:18 PM
Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 25, 2008 10:26 PM
'Truth of the matter is so many fathers do NOT want anything to do with their children and both the woman they chose to sleep with and the child suffer'.
While I am sure this does happen I think you have to be careful about generalising and ascribing behaviour to one gender as I know this happens in the other direction as well. For the last 17 years I have had full upkeep of my two children after their mother decided it was all too difficult.
Posted by: ynotalice at April 26, 2008 12:18 PM
Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 25, 2008 10:26 PM
'Truth of the matter is so many fathers do NOT want anything to do with their children and both the woman they chose to sleep with and the child suffer'.
While I am sure this does happen I think you have to be careful about generalising and ascribing behaviour to one gender as I know this happens in the other direction as well. For the last 17 years I have had full upkeep of my two children after their mother decided it was all too difficult.
Posted by: ynotalice at April 26, 2008 12:17 PM
Get over yourself Troy!!
You accuse voltairen of sycophansy (I presume you meant sychophancy) just because she agreed with Lynath, as in your post on April 25 @ 1:21 PM "Lynath, given you feel it appropriate to deride me on the basis of a post to Marcus which mentioned you, do you believe it appropriate I should now have a go at voltaren's sycophansy.
Her post directed at you referring to Marcus. I suppose it different as she is pandering to that gigantic ego. Get a room you two hahaha." (So droll, Troy!)
Then when voltairen replies, saying that she makes up her own mind on issues and her agreement with Lynath's responses have nothing to do with the fact that Lynath and voltairen are both women, you then accuse people (by that I suppose you mean women) of miscontruing your posts based on "a preconceived opinion seemingly formed from browsing some early feminist handouts"!!
Troy,
you frequently make rude and derogatory comments about Lynath (as does Marcus)when her responses outshine your own (at times) childish contributions as in "I suppose it different as she is pandering to that gigantic ego. Get a room you two hahaha."
You then have the temerity to get upset and accuse others of misinterpreting your attitude?!!
I suggest you go back and read some of the comments you have previously posted.
I believe that no one has misconstrued your attitude towards women who dare to challenge your ideas!
Posted by: amberlight58 at April 26, 2008 11:40 AM
I was checking out the last couple of days posts, and noticed that the guys seem to sling off at the girls when the girls tend to be clearly pointing out sensitive facts pertaining to women, protecting themselves from unworthy or unwholesome activity inflicted on them by insensitive men.
The bullies (being men) tend to start charging when no one expects it, not surprisingly though, since bulls in a paddock behave the same way.
Things said on here towards a few women like Lynath have been shallow. Lynath is a very intel
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