RSVP Blog

alianne,
Profound wisdom.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 10, 2008 3:47 PM

Amber,
Yes and lived with him for a short while when mum remarried. When I came back from the Territory I worked with him for a couple of years, he could never understand why I refused to bond with him as father and son. As he said on his death bed that was his great loss.

Marcus.
I am beginning to understand your perversity. For all the shit you carry on with you really do desire to be liked and respected. I agree with the latest spate of posts. When you are good you are very, very good, pity when the other side comes out and spoils it. Settle down son,
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 10, 2008 3:42 PM

Marcus I have just perused your profile, with a smile. When you chose to, your blogs are erudite and compelling. Do I sense compassion even, Mr. mirthfulandloquacious?

Posted by: kianee at March 10, 2008 3:23 PM

Laughandtalks....I was raised by all Religions...from families to best friends up to my surroundings... you can called me Christians, Jew, Atheist, Muslim...any would please you...cheers..

amberlight58....thank you too, it helps your post as well, same as others.

Posted by: aliane at March 10, 2008 3:17 PM

OG,
Thank you. That must have been awful for you. So frightening for a young boy. Did you see him again in your later life?

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 3:04 PM

Aliane.
Perchance you were raised a Catholic?
MS

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 2:59 PM

Hi Marcus,

You comments are so much more significant without the vitriol!
No it wasn't my son but he has been through a similarly life-changing situation. And I agree with you, the experience will hopefully make him a better partner for someone in the future.

Yes I have. I have both his secrets (and more secrets) of happy children and Manhood.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 2:59 PM

Amber'
I was just 10 when my father came back from the war but did not come home to Mum, me and my 2 sisters. I was the only child contested and for once in those days I was bought to the court to be sat on a high stool in front of the Judge ( in full regaila ) to say which parent I wished to go to. Having no memory of him much in the time before I was 5 (depression days) and him enlisting on the news of Britain declareing war. The only time I remember him was the 2 or 3 times he came home on leave, and copped a hiding each time ( my fault really). It was a no contest, but just his spitefull way of getting mum worried. I can relate to the position of your youngest, Amber no matter how young he is he will be cogent of the situation believe me
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 10, 2008 2:51 PM

Well said Aliane,
A so-called FwB relationship "let's just have fun and see where things go" does often keep one of the parties "dangling" hoping that one day the person they love will change his/her mind and want them seriously as a partner.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 2:49 PM

Marcus @ 2.31pm: When you stay in your Adult you are so good! And I'm even more late for work, but it was worth it to read that, half a day earlier.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 2:46 PM

Amberlight.

OK. A motherhood statement.
Not sure I am deliberately insulting anyone. I might make the odd reasoned vitriolic comment though.
I assume the young bloke you refer to is you son and he is a bit miserable about a break up with his girlfriend.
He is not a virgin then in the full sense and is on the path to adulthood. Better a bit of pain and confusion followed by insight for a boy or a girl than to marry a virgin and 28 years later find youself in a rough place like this to go through adolescence a second time.
Do you read Steve Biddulph?

Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 2:45 PM

Good point marcus ... maybe we should view some marriages as just past their use by date and not begrudge the split up. If a marriage produced children and saw them through their education then it was in that way a success. Maybe those two people have then grown apart and it is time for them to move on and find new partners for that stage in their life. It's an idea.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 10, 2008 2:42 PM

Friends with Benefits...another words...The Emotional Prenup......or .....Sex, No Serious Relationship....

This is presented throwaway sentence...do one account, to turned over to go to sleep with them. The only things wanted is access to their pants/skirt.

One person for Sex Explicit....the other holding might get handsome "Interest" in returned can hopefully work-out offered for Sex payment for holding back to them. ....this are the reason...eg:...one has,.. Financially Secured, Sex-fantasy gratification arousing excitement,.... Social Activities Interaction,....Insecurities Unattractive Personal Capabilities " ugly"....absolutely can convinced, that can change them as we wanted...."Wrong motivation indeed"...

Some people are inclined to this concept, because focus on ..happy ending stories....So, when said, I just want some Fun... But who knows one day...I want a serious relationship. In that cause ...very simple , you do what they wants...agree to their terms giving effectively - No Strings Contact,....be a doormat, sex-slave, server to provider...acted like a Robot...command by authority and should be obey or punishment should imposed by dumping no longer useful on their appetite.

FWB or Emotional Prenup....id effectively agreement to devalue all wonderful things about relationship And LOVE you want and deserved. Straight-up not looking for anything serious relationship.

There are many phases may use such as " we're having "Fun"...let's see how things it goes..then from that moment utters those words same way, ...forfeiting your rights into meaningful relationship. BUT, the problem is sighting might change and sees clear signal fantasies turn into mixed wrong message. Some finds it's OK for a moment..then sex obviously the intimate reply to convince into serious relationship to cling-on, BUT the painful truth is only felt horny again. No entice them to settle down.

Serious Relationship is develops over the time with mutual attraction,...start in small flirting and a little games, knows when moves to a deeper level and if your stomach feels little butterflies then there where started and mostly men...you need to realized,.. Men cares about you,..you know where you stand !!!...No points in breaking...

Understand the small print clear message...otherwise no points to be a martyrs...just old saying..."save your tears in - Tears of Joy....or ..Tears of Funeral "...expression for .. "Tears of Love"...

Posted by: aliane at March 10, 2008 2:41 PM

Marcus

Thats sounds right, the primary task had been completed, childern mostly raised, and there were significant differences in belief structures between my ex wife and myself. We get along fine now, but there was unhappiness for both of us in the last few years of marriage.

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 2:37 PM

Sorry Marcus. I misjudged you. I thought it was something less emotional.

But it must be a handicap to your commitment elsewhere. Maybe it was for suggesting that, that she got such a serve today. Painful thing, truth.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 2:34 PM

Virgil.
Perhaps these marriages have not failed if the primary tasks have been completed succesfully?
Because a couple separate or a relationship did not pass an arbitrary duability test does not indicate failure.It can actually indicate great success and an opportunity.
What is wrong with being honest and acknowledging that people grow apart and get bored? Sociologists and anthropologists reckon 7 years is about the average length of a 'marriage'-not though the time a couple may ber together.
Many marriages are those of convenience. Many men feel trapped in sham marriages of social expectation and their wives never see it. They fulfil their paternal obligations and feel no great compulsion for misplaced social obligation.
I have met dozens of women here who now have a much bigger view of life because they were released from a stultifying marriage.
Cheers.

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 2:31 PM

Hello Marcus,
I can feel my "parent" rising to the surface again with your comments to Lynath and TW!! You can be so brilliant Marcus, why sully your contributions with insults?

No actually Marcus, I have seen both men and women hurt, especially a young adolescent male, by a FwB situation, he hoped that she would eventually care for him, she didn't and went on to pair up with one of his friends. (Not everything we say is just about blokes, you know!!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 2:27 PM

Kianee @ 1.46pm: All good stuff, as usual from you. Always glad to see your name as I scroll up. A couple of comments:

You lumped puritanical and cautious together.

I see puritanical/radical Islam as a cunning plot to make this life less enjoyable, so the hereafter becomes more desireable, and thus more worth foregoing available joy in this life. A viceless circle? Or one leading to suicide bombers?

But I see cautious as an essential defence mechanism. Caveat emptor! Especially if the merchant is trying to sell you milky-white snake oil, and has a plausible sales pitch, and his hand elsewhere than in your wallet ....

Yes people change with time. And usually at different speeds. You're in similar places when you meet, then one has a growth spurt and disappears out of sight.

Don't think you can rekindle a dead fire. But try blowing on the last tiny ember, and gradually feeding it a tiny amount of tinder.

Too much lunchbreak Bill, you sociable loafer!. Back to work. Seeyezall.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 2:20 PM

I think the demarkation line between FWB and a relationship can sometimes be in the minds of the participants.

Relationship seems to fall more on the monogamous side, whereas FWB seems to have a more plural aspect. Todays discussion is very lively and well attended.

It is a public holiday here in SA with temperature expected to be 39c so I dont feel inclined to work my business, or go out before dark, as I Have had a headache all morning which may have been a bit of sunstroke, or the fact that going into a hotel at Glenelg around 3pm yesterday, every time I thought it would be good to go, went outside, and was quickly sent back because of the 40c temp.

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 2:19 PM

Hi Lynath,
I just wanted to comment on your post @ 11:24 AM.
I know what you are saying, but things were a little different with me, because I left my husband. After we did the "counselling" bit and it was pretty obvious things were all but over, my ex must have decided one of us was going to leave (and it wasn't going to be him, he wanted our house!). He ignored me, ran me down to our children "your mother is unstable", "I don't know what is wrong with your mother, she'll probably end up in a mental institution" (I was severely depressed at that time)
When I told him that I had found a place to live and was leaving, he went to our children and told them that they would never have any stability if they went with me and that he needed them to stay with him to be able to keep "our home". Luckily, I had insisted we have shared custody of our youngest son, (the older ones were old enough to make up their own mind) and once I realised what he was up to had gone to get legal advice, etc.
I slept on the sofa bed in our lounge while I waited for the house I was going to rent to become vacant, it wasn't a pleasant time to say the least.

According to my children, my ex-husband was not at all upset when I left; however, I spent the next 18 months or so devastated and grieving. He on the other hand was dating within 3 months of my "departure"
I don't think he has ever cared what went wrong, because as far as he was concerned (and right through our marriage) it was all me anyway.

I am fine now, I spent a lot of time soul-searching and working my way through things. The hardest time (for me) was when he met someone he wanted to become serious with and decided to use our youngest son to prove to his new love that our marriage broke up because I was really a "psycho- b****" That was really hard, but that relationship broke up after a few months and things have settled down to "civilised" now (until the next instalment, I suppose) I don't think it will be so hard next time because our son is getting older and realises what his father says isn't always true.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 2:11 PM

marriage is the easiest relationship to define, as it is celebrated with a piece of paper (usually given to the wife) Why? is this because the wife values the piece of paper more, therefore is less likely to lose it?

My marriage finished after 23 years, some here mentioned 25 and 26 years? why, after lasting so long, when people might expect to see their days out with this person, do they fail after so many years?

Surely after being together this long there is something there.

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 2:05 PM

Amberlight. istj54.
I think you have some insight into the power balance of some relationships with your P1 P2 comments. I assume you relate to the P2, who is usually the female.
After a few days of discussion here the FWB concept has already become stereotyped as sexually based or biased.Not necessarily so.
The 32 year friendship I have had with the girl I mentioned has had little to do with sex although we have have found ourselves in the cot, or intimate many times. It was a potential P1, P2 relationship but I never allowed it to get to that stage. The power dynamic that existed originally - she was my younger sisters friend (and next door neighbour; yikes!) and had a crush on me, has long gone. We shared many friends and aquaintances and because we spent adolescence in a Victorian country town, many reminiscences.
Virgil. No we don't have any particular social expectations thrust on us and are definitely not bound by any oath of sexual exclusivity. Common sense rules. It is pretty low key and unremarkable. We might not catch up sometimes for a couple of years. Sometimes sexual intensity wears such things out. She has met a couple of my girlfriends over the years and they have been able to tolerate each other which is as much as can be expected.
Lynath dear, if I see something relevant and cogent or not blindingly obvious about relationships and male processes come from you I will be flabbergasted. For all your earnest worthiness and pontifications you have almost no insight. FWB sex destabilising society? You sound like old what was his name, BA Santamaria, on the pill in the 60's. FFS. Honestly, when was the last time you had a passionate penis pointed at you?
Warpedone. ;-) I can see you getting a bit excited by all this sex talk and recent attention from girly girls. Congress in the House of eructating Representatives.
For you the safe and likely process involved in having multiple partners might involve giving your fingers names.

Cheers Marquis ;-}

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 1:55 PM

TLD @ 12.48pm: Nice to see you bringing us back to the blogtheme - or were you just reminding us of your totally hilarious story a couple of nights ago? Still giggling ....

And at 12.19 - OMG! I am completely gobsmacked. No wonder you value true love so highly. I am chastened.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 1:54 PM

Old geezer Actually it was Michael who outed Marcus not me

Posted by: abckenny at March 10, 2008 1:51 PM

wnw@11.29 a marriage without love lust and passion is colder than ice
timewarp at 12;02 I agree about being cautious too puritanical, but the pendulum can swing too far in the other direction as per TLD@11;24
It is up to each couple to form their own rules, to do what is right for BOTH. Even if a loving genuine relationship is established. I somehow think that the problems occur because we humans have the capacity for moderation and change with the circumstances in life. As circumstances and attitudes change one or the other becomes dissatisfied and the rot begins
TLD@12;05 either the chemistry is there or not …….. very difficult to rekindle after the fire has gone out. It takes two to tango.
timewarp@12:11 these “pervy players” often more than double dip
a player:an egocentric, sexual/power addict, who consistently and concurrently seeks and scores with different partners
Virgil @12;39 just continue on this subject on the next blog if it closes

Posted by: kianee at March 10, 2008 1:46 PM

OG @ 1.30pm: No mate - I beat you to it at 11.37am. But I was too subtle for some.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 1:44 PM

TLD@ 12.19 and 1.02pm and Virgil @ 12.39: The key word is entropy, borrowed from physics.

Definition: In any system (incl. a couple) everything will gradually slow down and finally grind to a cold dead stop - UNLESS someone/something is continually inputting energy. Forever.

Think tandem bike with no-one pedalling - soon falls over. And if they're going uphill at the time, it stops and falls over a lot sooner.

Worse if only one person ever pedals - she (he in my case) gets jack of that after a while and also stops pedalling.

I believe it's worst of all if their partner is only interested in pedalling over to the side of the road to lie on them for a while in the grass, while they look at the blue sky and think of their enormous job list.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 1:38 PM

Darn Kenny,
I was going to mention her and her 5 daughters in regard to Marcus and you beat me to it.
Marcus
Then they told me that it sent you blind, not rude, crude and vulgar as in your case, but you are obviously not blind as to your liking for going around checking mens trouser zippers to see what is hanging out, might I suggest Marcus that you can leave your fly undone. Just put the cover on your keyboard and give it a rest till you get the sensibility and respect for people who a lot of bloggers consider your superior in every way.

Lynath let me join the others that agree with your posts this morning, they resonated with me and I found them helpful and instructive.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 10, 2008 1:30 PM

Yes Lynath @ 1:02 PM, exactly!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 1:12 PM

ISTJ: OK, I'll take the righteous-indignation boot off the other foot. Pax. Although you were stingey - didn't even rate my big performance last week.

Virgil: My spare mum (dad's sister, later married to mum's brother) gave me a piece of advice at 20, based on her shortlived first marriage to a beautiful wounded Yank soldier, and her lifelong second to a solid almost stolid dairy-farmer:

"If you lust after her, just have an affaire, and see how long the flame burns.

But if you can't bear the thought of her tousled hair and unlipsticked face NOT being on the other side of your breakfast table every morning, marry her."

At 72, I haven't got a lot of years left for affaires before I settle down. (Hey, I didn't say no time ...)

And I agree with WnW, if there's no passion, the dreaded flannelette PJs have got you, at any age.

So I'm looking for another dear friend who, unlike my current ones, does want (or expects she soon will want) to promote herself to lover, in both senses simultaneously, TLD.

Then I hope for my life's ultimate and best reward - a blissful mix of satisfying days based on shared values and interests and mutual caring, Virgil, but iced WnW now and then with an elderly, enormously-toned-down version of SallyNoosa's goal, graphically described (that girl can sure write) in her mind-blowing post at 11.42pm on the 8th.

And hopefully continuing for yonks, with more and more of the former and (let's get real here) progressively less of the latter.

Or preferably just as much, but with fewer resultant sprains and pains. (Just kidding - I'm into maximising the Big O count, while completely avoiding collateral damage.)

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 1:12 PM

Hi WNW,
Actually in the early days of our marriage there was a lot of passion and lust. It just all seemed to fizzle out over the years as children and responsibilities took their toll.
I literally raised the children on my own and had all the responsibilty for the tedious things in life such as the bills, cleaning, etc.
My ex on the other hand had all these "outside the home" interests that were always more important than his family.
But he had no appreciation that all this was rather hard work and couldn't understand why I was so tired and resentful.
When he did help out it was with the expectation that I would "show my appreciation" in return,so it all changed for me from lust and passion to just another chore.
He never understood that what goes on outside the bedroom affects what happens in it. When you've been put last on his priority list all the time and the only time he actually "notices" you is......
Well I'm sure there would be a few people on here who can identify with my story...

Lynath I agree some young people do seem to be opting for the FwB scenario. But talking to my own kids, most of them do really want to settle down eventually with one person.
Boys are finding it harder because girls are quite happy to use them for FwB not being at all interested in anything else because they are not ready for children, have their own careers and independence and don't really need a bloke, except for....

Timewarp no "puritanical ancient deodorant attitude" from me, just a concern that in FwB relationships no matter how "honest" they are, there is always the potential for one person to be emotionally devastated

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 1:06 PM

virgil ... I think you'll find marcus is talking about Mrs Palmer.

thelynathdiary and marcus ... I agree that when the passion dies in a marriage you need to work on it but there is only so much you can do, then it just starts to tear away at your self-esteem. Yes, marriage can get monotonous when life is busy with work and children but a little passion doesn't actually eat into your day much if at all. Maybe I am too much of a romantic but I believe the little things count for a lot.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 10, 2008 1:03 PM

Virgil, accepting lack of passion in long term marriages is the norm is a myth.
Passion does ebb and flow and there will be times when things aren't great. If you stick those times out you will end up with a very fulfilling relationship.
To keep passion you have to continue to grow personally throughout the marriage, not slip into laziness in regard to presentation and not take a partner for granted.
If you want to rekindle passion then you have to take action and romance the partner all over again. This may not work if the timing is not right...eg if there is a stressful event happening which would limit the partners ability to respond. eg a new baby, a troublesome teen, death of a parent etc. The romance part does not necessarily mean turning up with flowers every night. It could mean doing something for or with your partner to show them that you really care about them..might even be cooking the dinner or doing the dishes together. Some men think that once they go into the bedroom the romance switch can be turned on...no, no no...it will not happen if the partner has been virtually ignored the rest of the day.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 1:02 PM

Would it be appropriate to accept a call from a FWB if you haven't heard them fart in an inappropriate setting?

After all surely there is no need for FWB to send their representative as they know there will be no interest in them from the waist up?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:48 PM

Marcus
How do you have a FWB for 32 years?

Presumably over that length of time, I would imagine you two are exclusive to each other?

If exclusive, then the "relationship" word comes to mind. When you two go out with friends, I suppose other friends expect you two to arrive and leave a gathering together.

My concept of FWB was usually either exclusive, or not, usually for a shorter duration than a relationship

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 12:46 PM

I suppose Karina will pull the plug on this blog anytime now as it is interesting and people, are communicating about the topic, of which FWB is much more beneficial to spend our energies discussion than farting.

So, what do we do, if we have a loving relationship, very little sex and no passion?

If the participants are married, then this is probably the normal course of events for this form of union.

If participants are not married, then they have to try harder, or one will leave.

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 12:39 PM

Blueyes Hi. Those "disappearers" usually turn up with a new profile name a short time after...AND sometimes have the nerve to try to contact again.

Do they really think we are that silly that we won't recognise them or desperate enough to allow them a second chance at their game?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:33 PM

I have had one fwb for 32 years.
Cheers Marcus

Marcus the fungus and mould on it is not your friend.....

I have two children as proof that I had a FWB twice! What have you got?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:24 PM

Passion and lust are something that can be built on in a relationship...that is what takes the effort people talk about after the initial phase has calmed down

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:19 PM

...oh dear..once again I agree with you TW...and do apololise yet again for what was a throw away saying that I would have used on "any" age group...will never use it again though...not pc...let it rest.

I, too, think that passion and lust are necessary in a "great" relationship...otherwise, is it not just being Friends With Benefits...or something far less than that, just friends...who cohabit?
I've waited this long and nothing short of "great" will do.

Posted by: istj54 at March 10, 2008 12:11 PM

TLD: Ours crossed. You make many valid points about effects. Customer arriving in 5 mins. Must go work. Cheers all.

And what about my suggestion yesterday or night before that we have some fun thinking of suitable slang names for those who have congress with multiple partners in the same time period?

I suggested double-dippers for blokes, postboxes or mailboxes for girls.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:11 PM

woodnwine, passion and lust in long term marriages or partnerships are known to be cyclical. If you were friends and had a basically good marriage then it would have been better to hang onto that and work on rekindling the passion..it would have happened!

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:05 PM

Once upon a puritanical time, ALL sex was very dirty, and the only circumstances where you could even think of beginning to forgive yourself for indulging in it, let alone for actually enjoying it (perish the sinful thought!!), was when:
* you were both young (No dirty old men thank you very much, OR dirty old post-menopausal women ...)
* you were deeply in love, and believed he was too
* you had been legally married by whatever church had brainwashed you that all the other churches, let alone all the other religions, were Shaitan's recruiting offices, and
* you fervently hoped that this coupling would produce a child, because if you didn't hope that, you were just wallowing in the most base of the sins of the flesh.

And also, if you were a princess,
* you bit the blanket and thought of England, and the good that your marriage/sacrifice was doing to international relations and Imperial power.

I may be wrong (as I often am) but I have felt sure last night and today that I have sniffed at least a whiff of this powerful puritanical ancient deodorant attitude, right here in this blog.

Second opinions, other that the predictable Marcus?

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:02 PM

Timewarp, hi! I do sound strict today don't I?
Friends who become lovers are in a relationship. The "silent shaggers" you describe sound like someone having an affair. Not many people like to be in the situation of only being used for sex while being excluded from all other areas of someone's life. (affair or not)
To me that would be soul destroying.

I have respect for the honesty of Prostitutes who are at least upfront about what they are doing and earning a living.
What I find sad is the young women and men who are being led to believe that this idea of FWB is great. Sex amongst groups of friends has just become as common as a handshake. I am talking about "hooking up" as they call it..not even a steady romantic attachment with one person.
All this is doing is helping to spread the rampant STD's and screwing up the heads(no pun!) of young people as well as destabilising society in the long run.
HIV and AIDS are on the increase in this country again.
Young people are finding there is no direction or guidelines in life and it is becoming pretty empty and unhappy.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 11:59 AM

I thought the very same thing, Timewarp...Marcus you may need to seriously consider your feelings for this person...and did you have breaks when you had a partner...I guess if you had a stand-by/back-up it was easier to never really work on a relationship....I meant that last generally, not inferring that you didn't put everything into things.

Posted by: istj54 at March 10, 2008 11:44 AM

I havent caught up with the blogs since yesterday morning, but what are you saying WnW, that there needs to be passion and lust for a relationship to work?

What about love and feeling safe?

Is that enough? or must passion and lust be a part of the equation as well?

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 11:40 AM

Kenny,
Yes, sounds like a player. Keeping you in reserve and stringing you along "just in case". No woman who was really attracted to a man(and you are attractive Kenny) would miss the opportunity to meet him in order to catch up with a cousin . You have had a lucky escape! I hate the feeling of being deceived once realisation dawns that you have been used but better to find out sooner than later.
Having had a partner who had an affair I have zero tolerance for any situation which involves me, a man and any other woman. whether it is a player whom I haven't met or not! It just makes me feel a bit sick.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 11:38 AM

Marcus @ 2.50am: I was very interested that you've had a single FWB ever since you were 17. You must be very attached.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 11:37 AM

Hey amberlight ... a lightbulb just went off in my head too. I was also friends with my wife but there was no passion, no lust ... just two people living together, helping each other and having sex occassionally. FWB! It eventually ended because I wanted more ... I wanted love, passion, lust and we didn't have that. In hindsight we should never have married, we should have just been friends.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 10, 2008 11:29 AM

Amberlight, what you have described about your marriage and the end of it is very common.

Those thoughts which you keep replaying in your head as you try to work out what went wrong or what you did wrong or how you could have saved the marriage 'if only' will drive you crazy if you let them.
The person exiting will invariably state (and make it known to all who will listen) that you 'caused them to be unhappy' , that you 'never loved them or supported them' that 'you just don't meet their needs anymore' that 'you were never there for them' that 'you were too fat, too thin, too old etc etc etc". It is their way of off loading responsibility and guilt to enable them to leave and believe that they will retain respect. The person being left is usually in such a stunned and grief stricken state that they automatically believe what they are being told and believe that it must all be true and they deserved this to happen.
The cure is to start questioning all the comments made and coming up with some real reasons why the other person exited ,when you know you put a great effort and love into the relationship over so many years. Your self esteem will soar and you will start to heal.(I am using the word "you" meaning no just Amberlight but everyone who has been or is in the situation. )

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 11:24 AM

Sorry I meant "put" me, our kids and our realtionship......

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 10:08 AM

Actually, a "lightbulb" suddenly went on in my head. Maybe I've been kidding myself....
I'm thinking that is maybe what I actually had in the 24 year relationship I had with my ex-husband!! I was always his friend, supporter and sounding board (he rarely was interested in what I feeling or what was happening to me) but after years of this when I finally told him that I was serious, that he needed to me, our kids and our relationship ahead of everything else in his life; he decided that he couldn't do that and didn't want to be married anymore!!

Maybe he just married me because he knew he couldn't keep his "friend" any other way (plus his mother was 'pushing' him as living together just wasn't "right" back then in a small country town!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 10:04 AM

I think that they may well be attracted to each other WNW, but not interested in an exclusive committed relationship.

I can see that friends having sex which is what most people mean when they use the term "Friends with Benefits" relationship, could be useful when people are going through that transitional time after a long relationship; not ready for anything too heavy as still needing to grieve, etc. But I'm pretty sure that I couldn't have such a friendship.

While I don't necessarily believe as lynath does that "There is something really crass and cheap about it" I tend to think; yes okay it all sounds great if the cards are put on the table at the beginning etc., but I'm never sure that such relationships are so "equal".
Some people would agree to such a relationship because they hoped that the other person (P1) will eventually want something more permanent and committed. P1 may have no intention of ever wanting more because that person (P2) is not what they are looking for in a partner, P1 is commitment phobic, or a myriad of other reasons. P2 is a nice loyal friend but not quite "good enough" for P1 to want to have as a lifetime partner.
The potential for P2 to be hurt is huge and despite the fact that P1 is sure that they both can be honest with each other etc., they may never truly know how P2 feels. This kind of relationship could go on for years, P2 hanging in there hoping that one day..........
There is nothing "equal" about such a relationship. The old saying that he (she)who loves least controls the relationship is very true in such a scenario.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 9:48 AM

How can people have sex with someone they are not attracted to? If they are attracted to them, then why haven't they formed a relationship instead of a friendship? Friends are friends, lovers are lovers ... I'm still confused.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 10, 2008 9:08 AM

Morning Lynath,
just reading the blogs of the night owls. Your third type is very annoying. I can think of a few, the most recent accepting a kiss and an email, agreeing to meet, would email after being away for work the next few days. He didn't so I sent him a very polite email asking out of curiosity (no hard feelings) whether he had changed his mind and "poof" suddenly gone from RSVP.Why answer in the affirmative in the first place if not really interested. At least they could have the courage to say they have changed their minds.
Marcus, your comment to Lynath re.no practical experience may be unfounded. I would have to go back and read many blogs to check but in my opinion, we all may have had these experiences of fwb but do not want to openly admit to them. Admissions of these things might not be something we want aired to all those who read the blogs and could be a possible date.Opinions do not always equate with experence or lack of experience.I for one am not going to 'tell all' on a public forum.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 10, 2008 7:58 AM

Timewarp 12:41
If you really want to live the most useful-others supporting life in the universe it might be a good idea to do up your fly and approach the task rationally mate.
I would suggest that claiming sightings of saintly apparitions (and divining long journeys and serious illness from tea leaves) is very likely connected to temporal lobe epilepsy rather than divine interference. A chapel is a likely place for a fearful and religiously bamboozled adolescent brain to fester too. It's the place to pray to the man born to a virgin mother and with no father. He was also the same hypothetical bloke who yelled out to Lazarus who had been dead long enough to pong, who jumped back to life. And so on.
I think the best approach to problems might be to approach them rationally and with reason and adult responsibility rather than invoking the supernatural.
Have to take issue with your sycophantic comments describing lynathsdiarrhoea's last post 9-3 1:24 as "erudite and clearly based on your unassailable values" . Erudite means learned or scholarly. Prudefeme Lynath talks of the 'concept' of a fwb. She has obviously has had no practical experience, so her utterance is subjective, not learned, as well as being moralistic nonsense.
I have had one fwb for 32 years.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 2:50 AM

Re lynaths 3rd type of player.
Hi Ken

Thank you very much for your interest. I have met a very nice man with a daughter the same age as mine and lives a lot closer. I am sorry I didn't get to meet you - perhaps another time. I am ging off RSVP now for a while.

Please take care and good luck with your search,
This from a lady who couldn't meet this weekend due to having to catch up with her cousin whom she hadn't seen for 6 weeks.
Think I've just been PLAYED ....again

Posted by: abckenny at March 10, 2008 2:01 AM

Blueeyes @ 10.45pm: Yes, I'm religious. Hard not to be, after seeing a saintly apparition in my boarding-school chapel at 14.

But my focus on living the most useful, others-supporting life that I can comes from a wish to make my corner of the universe as civilised as possible, not in the hope of future rewards.

I posted on this in great detail (you know me ...) last week when we were discussing possible alternative afterlives, and if you're interested, I'll give you the exact ref. here.

Lookit the time! Night all.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:41 AM

youareinPerth @ 10.12pm: No, I'm not a roof plumber. They work mainly on top of the roof.

I'm a mechanical engineer, and in this job my moonlighting sparkie subbie and I were installing a chandelier hoist of my design - so you can touch the wall button, and the chandelier lowers for cleaning and bulb-changing. Every palace needs one.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:30 AM

Wishful @ 10.05: The one who made the most out of me (till RSVP stamps - up near 150 now) was the 1900 No after they changes from snail-mail replies to voicemail - I got it down to about $8 to hear her audio enlargement of her ad, hang up and pen my reply, then phone again, hear her ad again, then take a deep breath and read my reply in my best Charles Southward voice.

W @ 11.34pm: No black book, but now and then I have to empty about 20 out of my mobile's memory, to make room.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:24 AM

TLD: Erudite as ever, and clearly based on your unassailable values.

I note your total abhorrance of 'recreational sex' and would like to ask whether you would disapprove more of friends who later widened the bandwidth of their interface to include recreational sex as well, or disapprove more of what I call silent shaggers (because I deplore the usual term of F-buddies) - couples whose interface involves only sex, without any significant conversation, outings together or with other friends, or any of the other sharing behaviours that we associate with friendship.

I see this behaviour as ongoing mutual prostitution by barter, and wonder what you think?

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 11:53 PM

Evening Jen...how's things? Timewarp....you must have a black book that reads like the yellow pages!!!

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 9, 2008 11:34 PM

Well said Lynath,
from experience if someone is "too busy" for you at the very beginning of a possible relationship - then there isn't much hope for later on!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 11:34 PM

JenJen again: Very different now on RSVP.

Then I was replying to their sketchy Ads in the paper - very little to go on. And after my divorce I was a bit depressed for about 8 years, so my reply letters were probably pretty drack and unattractive. And what woman wants a sad sack?

Didn't try advertising myself, because they said you'd get about 30 replies, including at least 20 that would sound OK.

I was working 80 hours a week, trying to keep feeding too many of my beloved staff while still keeping my business afloat, so I had only time for one date a week. I felt that if I advertised, it would be unfair to ask No 20 to wait 5 months for her interview.

My current self-esteem is miles higher, so now in RSVP I am a lot more cheeky.

I send out kisses in small batches to anyone in my wanted age bracket and within 25km who has none of my "veto factors" - smoking, only separated, wanting someone rather different from me, etc etc.

Then in my invited first email I say that I prefer to meet over a meal rather than just a coffee, and also mention that I believe that this century, going Dutch is more appropriate for a first date involving a meal, "unless my date is too old-fashioned to relate to that."

I justify this by explaining that I am not sexist, and that I expect my company will certainly be as enjoyable to her as hers will be to me. And as evidence I cite my experience during my last hundred RSVP first dates:

Three demanded coffee only, quickly looked me up and down and then vamoosed asap (one with a burnt mouth, from skolling her short black), but the other 97% CHOSE to stay chatting with me for over 2.1/2 hours, and most of them, well past 3 hours.

At that stage, 2 or 3 have said they weren't prepared to invest so much time in deciding whether they'd like to add me to their menagerie, (good riddance) and the rest have signed on fot the FD.

Only about 10 of the resulting dates were difficult for me - almost always when they'd hopefully kissed me, despite the mismatch that was obvious from comparing our profiles.

Women my age were trained to wait co-dependently till the feller asked them out, so if one plucks up her courage and sends me a kiss, I reckon a gentleman will give her at least one date, and be nice there, before either saying what I wrote in my post below, or asking her for another date if she seems suitable.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 11:29 PM

Just quickly skimming recent topics I have to say that I agree with iaminperth's opinion on the concept of friends with benefits. There is something really crass and cheap about it, and would you really want to use a 'friend' or be used like that? The need for, or indulgence in. instant gratification does not lead to long term happiness.
This concept is even different to the traditonal one night stand because it involves making use of a friend as a convenience. It reduces the act of love to something akin to sharing a cup of coffee. The romance and passion(which you still might find in a one night stand) and the "specialness" is taken away and replaced by nothing more than a physical workout . Are people becoming robots? Is sex so meaningless? If so, it is quite sad.

Players and definition of.... I don't agree that a player is anyone who agrees to meet then doesn't want to take things further. I have heard it the words "He turned out to be a player" many times on the blogs by recent rejectees!
If you meet and there is no attraction, then of course it is sensible to end the contact. To me there are three types of the "player species"
Someone who has so little confidence that they want constant reassurance that they are attractive and so contact everyone on RSVP , asks for emails they have no intention of replying to and have no conscience about wasting other people's time and money or causing angst.
The second variety is the type who are looking for only one night stands or who are married or attached but conceal the true intentions/facts prior to meeting and possibly getting what they want before moving on.

The third type are the ones I find most infuriating and deceitful. They are the ones who make contact and sometimes email, or accept a contact and an email. They reply and are very pleasant and encouraging but often make out they are a bit new to this or unsure or shy or hesitant. They are slow to reply to follow up emails and usually say they are sooooo busy at work or other things. They often state they can't wait to email you on the weekend. Of course you politely tell them all is okay and you look forward to hearing form them. Weekend comes and goes..waiting..nothing...sometimes another small email...and more excuses. You notice that they have managed to find time to check into RSVP..still benefit of doubt.
Usual outcome is either no further contact or an email a few weeks down track.... expecting you to be still waiting happily.
These are the players who string people along . They will be seeing or in contact with at least one other person and they are arrogant enough to think that they will 'decide' on further contact when they are ready and if the other contacts don't work out.
If I contact someone then I only concentrate on that person until it ends for whatever reason(one day I will find a keeper )
My rule now is they get the benefit of the doubt for no more than two days if they are still checking into RSVP. I also have a busy life and yet I am able to answer emails from people and would make a point of it, if it is someone I am interested in romantically. I am tired of the ridiculous excuses for bad behaviour and manners and am yet to understand what the purpose really is for doing this.If that is the treatment and lack of consideration and respect they dish out pre meeting who knows what they would be like later.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 9, 2008 11:24 PM

Timewarp, I just cant believe you havent yet found Miss Right Enuff ....
With all your efforts, you deserve to !
Evening wishful...........:)

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 11:12 PM

Australia Post and/or Telstra must of loved you TW!!

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 9, 2008 11:05 PM

Timewarp, I didn't know you were religious. The prayer is good.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 10:45 PM

JenJen: I'm at Mt Gravatt and today's job at 8 Mile Plains. Heavy rain here 9am and 11am with blue sky in between, then none, so I expected tennis. "Isolated showers."

My Sunday night tennis is at Stafford, Tues night's at Mt Gravatt East, now called Wishart.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 10:36 PM

Ceroc is a mixture of jive, salsa and rock n roll..You can google it and there is plenty of info about it.About 80 people go each lesson and you don't need to take a partner as they rotate you along the lines very frequently.They start with a beginners lesson and then have an intermediate following it.It is a great way to learn to dance and meet lots of people.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 10:35 PM

Thats a very nice way of ending things Timewarp when it is clear there is no further interest. Unfortunately however, not all men behave in such a gentlemanly manner when on a date..........perhaps I will just have to make it a rule that it is only ever coffee first up, daytime.

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 10:34 PM

Getting away fast? Before my present coupla years with RSVP I tried the newspaper personals for about 5 years in the late 1990s.

Answered over 300 women's Ads, with only a one-in-six phone response to my letters. Those 60 calls led to about 50 first dates, always formatted as just a coffee.

But 3 stretched from morning coffee to lunch to afternoon coffee and one to dinner -5 to 8 hours, before she said "Thank you Bill - this was the best fun I've had for years, but I'm looking for someone younger/richer/slimmer, so good luck."

Another four became good long-term platonic friends, and one a penfriend for about 6 months, but the rest were so unsuitable that as she sat down, I would say a small silent prayer:

"Thank you Lord, that this is a coffee lounge that I can decently escape from in 30 minutes, and not a desert island."

But no need for an escape clause - we'd met only for coffee and a short exploratory chat and we'd already had both of them. So I could honestly say after the 30 minutes which I consider to be the minimum attention that a girl deserves, for putting on some lipstick at least and getting herself to the date

"Thank you for coming to meet me, looking so nice. I've enjoyed chatting with you, but I think we're different kinds of people. So I plan to keep on meeting more and more people, till I find my match. I hope you do too."

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 10:26 PM

Hi Timewarp........not much time to play here these days.........head down in text books :(
Seemed like a good idea back in January !!
Wonder where it was raining........dry as a bone out here on the westside. But wherever it was, it sounds like you could do with a bit of a rest !!

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 10:24 PM

I can hear your calves rejoicing from here.I prefer a gentle massage for the legs and preferably by someone good looking to me.Just googled wuss and you are correct in the spelling Timewarp.It's quiet and tame here tonight.Should I be somewhere else?

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 10:15 PM

110kgs up a ladder TW, now that is exercise. Are you a roof plumber? That is really hard work. I think you lift three times your own weight climbing up ladders and you should be careful, if you ever fell, it would be a hell of a thump !!!!!

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 10:14 PM

Hello Blue, UWA has Ceroc classes and not being a dancer don't have a clue. I'm a great walker and I used to ride horses very competetively but have not got into dancing. Exercising 7 horses per day from 4a.m. and working full time and then stabling and grooming in the evening didn't leave a lot of time for learning to dance. However, I know that's just an excuse just preferred to sit around with a great drink and good food and good conversation. Also sometimes my legs and feet would be sore at the end of the day as well, 3 day events are hard work I can tell you...great fun, but very taxing physically. So, what is Ceroc ?

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 10:12 PM

My calves are rejoicing. Ten seconds after my alarm rang to get them down off the bolster and me up out of bed, an SMS came in "Just rained hard on this side of town. (20km north of me) Tennis is off."

Hopefully not on Tuesday night, only 5km away.

JenJen: Thank you. Loved that joke. Been missing you round.

Blueeyes: Yes, baths bore me too. Prefer my warm foot bath with the vibrating acupressure knobs to pass the sorest parts of the sole across and back. And I can type etc at the same time.

Today's horrible house had a 2-storey ladder - one to the first floor (stairs not installed yet) and 15 metres away, a second one to the manhole - Oh sorry ISTJ - roofspace access point.

Then back across in the roofspace to the hoist, located exactly above the lower ladder. Stepping high over airconditioning duct tubes, and only on the framing, so as not to crash straight through the gyprock ceiling sheeting to the floor below.

Keeps me young, but at a cost: I'm losing weight but still 110kg, so narrow ladders put heavy local pressure on my metatarsal arches, especially when hurrying upwards with a load, to save time. Winge winge.

And on second thoughts, I think you spell it "wuss" not "woos."

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 9:54 PM

Since most of us have kids (even grown up ones) ,they can be very useful for having to meet them somewhere. Usually early in the first meet (and I mostly only go for a cuppa) I ask what they have lined up for the afternoon and add that I have to be somewhere else by a certain time if I think that this is no match. Have never organised a first meet that would take longer than a cuppa and short chat.But have never run out too quickly-I do stay long enough to be polite.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 9:33 PM

And those are the dates where he (or she) forgot to send his representative :))

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 9:20 PM

Great idea blueeyes........would be interested to hear others experiences on how they ended "the date from hell"........

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 9:18 PM

Am laughing Jen-maybe there's an idea for a new topic. 'What excuse did you last make to end a date quickly?'

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 9:14 PM

After being with her all evening, the man couldn't take another minute with his blind date. Earlier, he had secretly arranged to have a friend call him to the phone so he would have an excuse to leave if something like this happened.
When he returned to the table, he put on a grim expression and said, “Bad news. My grandfather just died.”
“Thank God,” his date replied. “If yours hadn't, mine would have had to.”

Hmmmmmmm..........could have put that one to good use recently.....:)

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 9:11 PM

Might need a life saver on hand with all that stuff in the bath.If I fell asleep there I'd drown.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 8:54 PM

Timewarp and blueeyes ,…….. I do admire your discipline, w ell done!

Posted by: kianee at March 9, 2008 8:49 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot the candles. lol.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:41 PM

I'm with Kaz on the bath. Love 'em. And that lectric soda is good. Just add some essential oil. mmmm. Put some music on, a glass of wine if you like. Nice!
Btw. good on you for the walk!

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:40 PM

Blueyes a bath is always better with a glass of champagne and some candles.............K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 8:38 PM

Taa for the advice mamakaz. My problem is I get bored in the bath. Wish they made baths padded as I also find them uncomfortable-maybe I need a little padding.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 8:32 PM

Thanks Iaminp but hopefully look better tomorrow. Tonight I look exhausted. But there were about 20 of us walking so I had good company, lots of laughs (and gossip) and adult conversation. Mind you we avoided the topic of FWB.Getting out and burning up energy certainly makes going to sleep at night very easy. Most nights I don't even remember my head hitting the pillow. Gee a FWB would have to be quick then.Do you have ceroc in Perth? Google it and try it if you do.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 8:27 PM

Blueeyes run the bath, put some soothing lectric soda in it and soak.....
Lectric soda is great for aching muscles and feet, l use it a lot after a busy day on my feet...........K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 8:22 PM

Yikes Time and Blue, What energetic people you are, I thought I was pretty good walking the dog at the beach but no, apparently not. I think it's fabulous though because people who exercise at any time of their life look better I think. Everything seems to work better, eyes brighter, more alert, more grounded, everything. Lots of cheers for both of you......

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 8:07 PM

You live too far away Woodwine- can't wait that long

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:56 PM

Oh woodwine, I do know-just being the innocent here. Really do need a leg rub tonight- don't think have energy left for the other.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:53 PM

blueeyes ... if only you knew.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 9, 2008 7:47 PM

Am afraid my calves are woosses (how do you spell that) tonight. Still waiting for a FWB for leg massages. Note we haven't stipulated what specific benefit we might appreciate. I'm sure there are many different kinds.Will have to walk to the kitchen to get dinner-that might be too far.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:45 PM

Perth @ 12.43pm: Thank you for that excellent post - explained your position and values very clearly.

I see a different problem: if you and such a real friend did hop into the cot, I think it would be hard to stop at FWI (for intimacy - let's be specific.)

If it was me, I'd expect one of us to slip into love by mistake, like the exaample in one of my recent posts.

BTW, how much will I have to shorten my posts before anyone will read them, let alone comment?

Yes, Blueeyes @ 6.28pm: I can relate to that. I was up and down a manhole ladder and stepping across from truss to truss in the hot roofspace to where we were installing the chandelier hoist, quite too many times today.

Usually takes half a day, but today things went wrong - took us 7 hours, and only just home via supermarket.

My calves are telling me they don't want 2 hours' energetic tennis tonight as well, but I tell them not to be wooses, and I'l put them up for 40 minutes first. Now. Seeyez all

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 7:36 PM

Gene-what's the catch with the Hunter Valley trip?

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:02 PM

I have never had FBW's, in fact have never had many friends at all. Rather tortured upbringing that never allowed me the time to experience friendship in any way. It is sad that to this day I still find it hard to make friends at all. I do not see how it would work, would there not be the issue that some have said that one will fall for the other?

Posted by: harleyguy66 at March 9, 2008 6:55 PM

Back from the bush. Now I do need the FWB-a person who is good at massaging. We did 15kms out at Thirlmere Lakes. They set a cracking pace. On the return trip they did the 7 1/2 kms without a stop for breath. My feet are sore, legs tired and generally pooped especially since I went dancing for 3 hours last night and didn't get home till after midnight. Oh to be young again.
Gene, can't see your profile so how can we check you out if you are asking for kisses?
A few poeple asked about my aunt and her FWB. Never heard how the arrangement started but they were very good for each other. I think they felt it worked best because neither had to sell their houses and it didn't interfere with wills etc.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 6:28 PM

istj54
i just checked the paint ...it needs another coat.
Shutters should be here in about two weeks,
anyway....underbelly has deteriated into a sexual farce.
if i wanted to know w=hat the underworld do I now Know!!
They make drugs, sell them, screw women continuosly,kill somebody make more drugs, have a cup of coffee,screw more women,make more drugs, kill somebody,have a cup of coffee.........on and on and on ...........surely there is more to life in Melbourne ?????

Oh , anyone want a trip to the Hunter valley for a weekend for free?

Posted by: genegene at March 9, 2008 6:20 PM

OG - have you had your date yet? If so, how did it go?

Posted by: woodnwine at March 9, 2008 5:51 PM

PS. I'm with you on the swinging bit; but I have to confess I did vote Liberal once! (took me years to get over it!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 2:30 PM

Funniest post I've read in days Amber - thanks for the laugh!!

That phone call must've been rough but I'm glad you used it as an opportunity to learn and grow - well done!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 9, 2008 3:12 PM

Sorry another typo, I meant disgusted

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 3:03 PM

amdoingit sounds like your dad was at least a little supportive! I wonder why some mothers can be so "toxic" towards their own daughters? It must have been really hard to live with your parents when your mother was so disguste" with you.

I too have tried to be a support to my own children and not judge them, while instilling in them the need to believe in themselves but to also respect other people's points of view and differences.
I too allowed myself to be treated with little respect in my 22 year marriage. A huge eye-opener for me was when I rang a parent help-line in tears after my teengae son had said some truly horrible things to me and after listening to me and asking questions about our family life; the male counsellor pointed out to me that my boys would never respect me until I learned to respect myself!!
I had thought I did as I had done a lot of self-growth in my late 20s & 30s! I guess that phone call was really the beginning of a new way of thinking about myself

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 3:02 PM

You are right of course VDU, to each his own as the saying goes. I didn't think the discussion is/was about wrong or right; just about the differences in people's perceptions and feelings.

PS. I'm with you on the swinging bit; but I have to confess I did vote Liberal once! (took me years to get over it!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 2:30 PM

Thanks amber, To me this has nothing to do with sex this is about maintaining the quality of a relationship with a true friend.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 2:08 PM

Wow!!! What a lot to wade through!!!

Like most things in life, having a FwB is a personal choice that can work really well as long as both parties are on the same page. It's not something for everyone, but what is??

There are a lot of things I know I would never do (voting Liberal and swinging come to mind LOL), but that doesn't mean other people don't enjoy them or they are wrong in so doing... live and let live I reckon.

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 9, 2008 1:52 PM

I'm not sure that female (or male) sexual predators see what they do as undervaluing themselves, although they are certainly undervaluing the other person. Maybe sex is just sex to them, it means nothing and is just a bit of fun like going to the movies! They have no idea that to some people sex is meaningful, and even if they do, they don't care!

I do tend to agree with you iaminperth, regarding friends though, really good friends are hard to find. I also find it difficult to believe that once you introduce sex, your relationship can still be just about friendship.
What happens if one person makes the mistake of "falling in love", then things can never really be the same again. I guess if you both "fall in love" with each other, then that is different and would be a great outcome, but that would most likely be an unrealistic scenario.
It would be excruciatingly painful for the person who "fell" and also embarrassing. Putting myself in that postion, I would find it hard not to break off the friendship because keeping on would be too painful. (If it's not painful, then why are there so many songs about unrequited love?)
If it works successfully, that is great; I guess no one really knows if it works for them until they try it. And even then it may work well in a relationship with one person and end sadly with another. We can only really know how it feels for us, in reality we have no idea how much pain we may be putting the other person through.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 1:29 PM

Amberlight..can relate to you totally.. Had a very strict european upbringing and was convent schooled (like you ..K..).Needless to say boys were a no no. My father actually went against my mother and allowed me to go out on a date when I was 17. Got home a few minutes after midnight (that was the bewitching hour in my mothers mind) and boy did I cop it. Was called for everything even though it was totally innocent and that was my last date till I was allowed to go out with a nice european boy who I married shortly after meeting just to leave home.
Walked out on the marriage at 7 months pregnant much to my mothers disgust. She never did let me forget it either as single mum's were a real no no back in the late 60's.
Lasted just over 2 years living with parents being a mother during the day and working at night, Finally moved out into the big wide world at 21 and boy was it an eye opener.
Amazing what being constantly put down (like you Amber) can do to a persons feeling of self worth.
Then had a marriage that lasted just over 20 years and much as I hate to admit it most of that time I was indeed a doormat. Started to get a little inner strenghth in the latter years compliments of my father and I did eventually leave.
Has taken me a few years to really discover who I am and to have the strength and courage to say what I think and how I feel. I can honestly say that I am now comfortable with who I am and where I'm at so "if" I'm lucky enough to find a partner to continue on the pathway of life then I will be better for my past experiences. I will now be able to ensure that it is in fact a 2 way street and not just a one way one.
Funnily enough I've instilled all of the inner wisdom I had into my children yet didn't have the strength at the time to practice what I preached. Never mind.. I firmly believe that fate deals us our cards as deemed fit so that we learn whatever lessons we need to. Maybe I just took a bit longer to learn but hey I'm here and better for it.
God, who needs a shrink.. we just unload on here and heaven forbid deal with the consequences.
K.. you started the ball rolling with your story about FWB and now it continues today with more of us. Hope I don't end up regretting this.. Oh well..
Just realised that some of you who actually know me will find out a little more about me by reading this as we haven't all had the opportunity to get into the D & M's.
What have I done. Oh well, click before I change my mind. Most of you don't know me anyway and probably never will so what the heck..

Have a good one all... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 9, 2008 1:25 PM

I tend to believe nowadays, after a lot of chats wth older men and numerous teens that quite a few women nowadays are quite predatory and quite a lot of the time it is the women who instigates the sex. I'm not quite sure why casual sex for women is the big thing, but one of the reasons for teens apparently is that they can't think of anything to say and therefore let's have sex., I find it very sad that women are undervaluing themselves, again I believe, and not standing up and saying here I am. I also tend to believe that a friend is a friend and a relationship is just that. A sexual relationship with a friend, again in my opinion would ruin a good friendship as there are so many emotions introduced. Rather like golf for me ruining a good walk. I don't envy the position that guys are in today as it seems no matter what they do they are criticized. The young kids call them Fbuddies, but when they all walk into a social setting together, its fairly obvious there is discomfort all round and usually tears. My male friends are very special to me, we can talk in depth about anything and laugh about anything, each other most of the time but that's what is so special about friendship. If any of us were to pair off with another the friendships would change and we wouldn't be able to converse so easily and therefore miss out on the sheer joy of a great friendship. A very good male friend of mine sent me an sms the other day when I was driving quite a distance to find an address - give me a call if you get lost and I'll come and get you. That's really a good friend.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:43 PM

hi amdoingit .. checked your profile too ......... and you have a great profile ...... good luck in your search

Posted by: kianee at March 9, 2008 12:33 PM

Noname,
I think the name wishfull has been taken, lol.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 9, 2008 12:31 PM

Hello All,
Had a really nice evening last night at a joint 60th Birthday party for some work colleagues. Went to the Barossa, nice food, great company and fun (in a quiet way). Nothing really beats getting together with friends does it?

Wow, it all got a bit "prickly " at times last night, didn't it? Hopefully all is good again in Blogland.
I was raised fairly strictly as far as "morals" were concerned, as well. My mother called me some fairly unsavoury names (one beginning with S***) when I was 18 because I sat in the car with my boyfriend at the time until 3 AM! Some of you may remember if you lived at home as we both did, the car was the only place you could be actually alone together, especially if you had a mother like mine who insisted on sitting up all night and "holding court" (she seemed to think all my boyfriends were secretly lusting after her; funnily enough most of them thought she was great, I was soooo "lucky" to have a mum like that; they had no idea about the things she would say or the names she would call me after they went home!) I was 20 before I did anything to justify some of the the names she called me!!

So consequently I am a little "fragile" in that department; so I can't imagine that a FWB arrangement would work for me, (though one can never say never!). However, for those who can and have a respectful and honest relationship: I say good on you!
I was judged as a young person to be less than worthy and have tried not to inflict that kind of thinking on to others. (mind you, as you all have probably guessed by now; I can be very opinionated!! However, I never intend to be hurtful as I remember too well just how painful that is)

I wonder about the Aunty though, was that really a FWB relationship or was it quite committed? They just realised it wouldn't work if they actually lived together!!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 12:18 PM

Hi Bean, sorry I switched off before your post last night @10.45 pm I have been told that pre-nups can be contested as can will's, the last thing I can do for my kids is to see that they get the last benefit that their mother and I can give them, that seems to be what Pigs do. Also the fact that the companion may not want to leave her house and comfort zone, and have her pension benifits change.

Perth. Could you explain to me why it is only the men who get "their rocks of". This is generally the attitude that turns men off, and I mean big time. I have found that since I have been posting on the blogs that the hit rate on my profile has trebled in number and more importantly so has the kiss rate, I have not responded to most of them till I find the results of the coming week. As to your query about the man signing the pre-nup I certainly hope so it is only fair he should.
Cheers OG.

Posted by: oldergent at March 9, 2008 12:17 PM

Kianee..great post, had to check your profile for the age thing as I thought I was pretty much one of the "oldies". Anyway, you beat me...
By the way... like your profile... Good luck...."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 9, 2008 12:12 PM

It has been extremely interesting to follow comments on this topic.So many clear and well thought through opinions. jenniferhi’s insightful comment of ”There are a lot of very strong personalities here” and “Also a lot of people in this middle-age age group are often new to computers let alone dating” There is also a great diversity of not only age, but also academic status and cultural background which perhaps adds to the diversity and is an explaination why there are such heated debates in this place.
I think I am older than many of you (and more familiar with chasing cows than working a computer) and yet feel as though my life is just beginning, I have the benefit of long hindsight, but the most exciting, I can CHOOSE to participate in this new brave world’s practices or not. How wonderful to have choice. I have tasted FWB, found it was not for me, and moved on. I made an adult choice, and treasure the lessons I learned.It is everybody’s right in this country to make adult choices.
Cheers

Posted by: kianee at March 9, 2008 12:01 PM

genegene...welcome back...and not before time...glad the paint's dry:))...and how good is that show?

Posted by: istj54 at March 9, 2008 11:53 AM

Hmm..I got lost in the football-speak. I was reading FWB and then next thing I know I'm looking at a whole bunch of footie stuff that I know nothing about (not that I know much about FWB either).

Noname7 - just become NN7 - we'll respect you either way. I'm still laughing at the old aunt who popped up the road each night - what a great way to go - security and dinner taken care of and space the next day - isn't that pretty much what the younger generations do anyway - stay some nights and go home and have space? Great arrangement for her.

Well..Sunday - best I go make the most of it. Play nice in the sandpit people....remember...respect.....share....smile!

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 9, 2008 11:46 AM

istadj54 and others from "the gone belly up" Melbourne RSVP mafia.
After 3 weeks of no rpovider,constant computer meltdowns and no dating for well oiver a month I have come to this radical conclusion.

I am the best person I know, the nicest person I have ever been with and am Just wasted on my self.
If for some reason there is a darling woman out there who seriously wants me then let me know otherwise I will just keep painting my walls and watching the paint dry.
Oh , none of my old email addresses work so let me know if you would like the new ones...only women who want a 15 year relationship need apply.

Posted by: genegene at March 9, 2008 11:13 AM

Jennifer @8.53 am.
I think you are right to some extent in your saying that upbringning has a lot to do withour outlook on our current situations.

My upbringing was fairly sheltered actually, and being the eldest l wasn't allowed to do most of the things that my girlfriends were doing at the ages 15 - 18. So l guess that until l separated from my ex l lived my life pretty much the same, however brought my children up with vastly more freedom than l ever had, and they are healthy well adjusted people.

My outlook on life has now changed dramatically and those who have known me for a long time are sometimes bemused by my more outgoing nature.

I for one would rather be the me l am now to the me l was 5 years ago........................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 11:03 AM

It's cool this morning in Perth, the first time for ages and then apparently we are back up to 38 by Wednesday. The weather here has been in the 40s and we are desperate for rain. It's so erratic, with some very hot evenings and the temperature doesn't seem to pitch until about 6p.m. which is uncomfortable. I am wondering whether there really is something with this global warming and climate change because the weather is so totally different from when I arrive in Perth 11 years ago.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 10:03 AM

Jenhi and blueeyes just then: Yes - societal ideas are changing a bit (but less I think between the 70s and now, than between the 50s and 70s.)

But I think it's much more about the age of the protagonists. Teenage romances are usually just practice runs, so celibacy or contraception are crucial.

Then for maybe 10 or 15 years, the age is appropriate for having children, and THOSE relationships need to last for 20 years plus, (and stay fairly amicable) or the children are disadvantaged.

After that, in your middle age the only must-haves are contraception, and mutual delight with one another for a while (better to have loved for a time and lost ....)

Maybe even a second try for what SallyNoosa had the time before, if like 99% of the population, you missed out on it for the previous 20 years. And are still game for that sort of shenanigans - and fit enough.

And then at last, before the attack of the flannelette PJs, just between menopause and impotence comes reward time - IF you're not ageist enough to think that sexy old men are dirty, for not retiring decently to their wire-pulling sheds at 65 (sorry ISTJ - wrong blog).

So I for one don't blame all our old girls who are looking for a partner who still has a hatstand, not a bell rope.

And if that means he has to be younger, so be it. And then if (maybe I should say when) he moves on to a younger partner, be cool - you've had your turn already.

Must go get up in a roof and earn my living. Seeyezall much later.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 10:02 AM

pickles, no need for an apology at all. I found it a fascinating topic and was very intersted to see the thoughts of others - it was the poorly thought out judgements of some which set me off but I'm over it and am moving on :)

Truly a lovely day here in Melb and I'm off to enjoy it.

Cheerio

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 9, 2008 9:59 AM

My last comment on this subject is to say that it is not about "putting up with bad treatment"..it a is a mutually agreed upon relationship..no one is short changed.

It doesnt suit everyone (obviously) but i am sure that for those that have this arrangement it is mutually beneficial. We are all adult enough to work it out for ourselves.

I dont take offence at some of you not agreeing or approving of it..its your interpretation of what it means for the parties. No one has the right to sit in judgement of others.

Posted by: picklessister at March 9, 2008 9:51 AM

Again, FWB can be useful when in the process of separating from a long term partner, where the magic is still there, but it can be seen that there is not the scope for much of a future, and there is still enough love and goodwill to continue a sexual relationship.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 9:40 AM

Thank you Alliane, I rest my case.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 9:39 AM

Without going through lasy nights blogs at lenght, I'm noy sure who had the auntie who went up to her friends place, stayed the night, then went home.

I dont really know where that fits, friends with benefits or relationship? I would imagine it was quite a long term arrangement, and totally monogamous.

I think the people of times past had a better idea how to go about things, no doubt quietly and discreetly, where we quite openly discusss our arrangements some, in a public blog.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 9:36 AM

Friends with benefits...No Way for me unless I am desperate. Please don't freak-out yet, I respect people on their choices, this "biggest misconception". though might also winning, waiting, gaining,..although might look perfect on paper or even in thier jeans, unless they look perfect on you. But looking for that intangible quality were waiting for a relationship to feel what it feels, not other party to compromise is a waste of time. No respect on your behalf...Why to continue along to sacrifice ourselves.

It's better to be alone than lonely in relationship. Why putting-up bad treatment ..when you know it all take for granted..or perhaps they change their mind to be back unto your arms. while others, over relief weight lifted off their shoulder, they got nothing to worry about but only yourself.

Use single time to proved your independent..learning to look after yourself..means when another opportunities next relationship comes along be a self -sufficient person..this are socially , finacially , emotionally. It's better to be your own, not empowered by any special benefits after of anything..it is unhealthy relationship, feels they can't be alone and it's a biggest mistake thinking being "left on the shelf". Makes another life fuller, you never know will be right person next door introduce lying. be Not a doormat...but...ditching...for the sake of it...

Posted by: aliane at March 9, 2008 9:28 AM

Well the can of worms that was FWB is firmly in my bin.
Last time l ever offer up an experience l had that was positive for me. Clearly ,negative seems to work.
One last thing on that......l would rather have him as a friend than some l know.
by Kaz

I, for one, applauded your honesty and openness...please don't forget that it was just one very distant voice who tried to sully your experience...I sometimes correlate the bloggers with staff members and that helps. We've all said many times that each and everyone of us has a right to be heard here and I enjoyed hearing your experience.

My view of FWBs and FBs is that it is great, as stoic said, if both people are there for the same reason, but sometimes one, or other, may have a hidden agenda and want more...iaminperth seems to think this will be the woman every time...not so.....or the sex can become highly addictive/fantastic to both partners and this can set up a whole lot of other problems...nothing to do with lost friends.

Posted by: istj54 at March 9, 2008 9:23 AM

Yes you are right blueeyes. And I guess I am the same in that I didn't have conversations like I have these days. There sure is a lot to get your head around. But for me it is an exciting time in lots of ways in my life. I do look forward to finding that special connection again. And on that journey I am meeting such wonderful people.

I think the difference in ages was glaringly obvious last night between iaminperth and impossiblebean. Upbringing must definately play a major part. Maybe a lot of people cannot shake those values placed on us when we were young. I'd certainly like to think I can. My values have definately changed from what my parents set for me and even those I had for myself maybe even a couple of years ago. We have to move on.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:53 AM

I think Jenni that many of us middle agers have been married for many years (I was for 26) and the dating rules are totally different to what they were when we were much younger. Along with that go different ideas about the male and female roles, as already discussed, and the different notions about what is acceptable and what isn't. While married I didn't mix with many unattached people or have the indepth conversations about morals and behaviour that I do these days. There is a lot to get one's head around.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 8:30 AM

Oops - When I mentioned middle-age there, I was referring to the group I come under.
Don't take offence anyone. I know there is a very wide age range in the bloggers here.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:19 AM

I want to say a bit more about last night.

Impossible Bean - Meant to say last night I think you must have had a fantastic father.
What a wonderful relationship you must have had.

Iaminperth - I believe you were judgemental and I think a lot reading here would definately say that. Your judgements read to me to be totally directed to the woman also. It's that old chestnut isn't it? The notches on the bedpost for the man - yet the woman is seen as cheap, nasty, easy.