RSVP Blog

alianne,
Profound wisdom.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 10, 2008 3:47 PM

Amber,
Yes and lived with him for a short while when mum remarried. When I came back from the Territory I worked with him for a couple of years, he could never understand why I refused to bond with him as father and son. As he said on his death bed that was his great loss.

Marcus.
I am beginning to understand your perversity. For all the shit you carry on with you really do desire to be liked and respected. I agree with the latest spate of posts. When you are good you are very, very good, pity when the other side comes out and spoils it. Settle down son,
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 10, 2008 3:42 PM

Marcus I have just perused your profile, with a smile. When you chose to, your blogs are erudite and compelling. Do I sense compassion even, Mr. mirthfulandloquacious?

Posted by: kianee at March 10, 2008 3:23 PM

Laughandtalks....I was raised by all Religions...from families to best friends up to my surroundings... you can called me Christians, Jew, Atheist, Muslim...any would please you...cheers..

amberlight58....thank you too, it helps your post as well, same as others.

Posted by: aliane at March 10, 2008 3:17 PM

OG,
Thank you. That must have been awful for you. So frightening for a young boy. Did you see him again in your later life?

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 3:04 PM

Aliane.
Perchance you were raised a Catholic?
MS

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 2:59 PM

Hi Marcus,

You comments are so much more significant without the vitriol!
No it wasn't my son but he has been through a similarly life-changing situation. And I agree with you, the experience will hopefully make him a better partner for someone in the future.

Yes I have. I have both his secrets (and more secrets) of happy children and Manhood.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 2:59 PM

Amber'
I was just 10 when my father came back from the war but did not come home to Mum, me and my 2 sisters. I was the only child contested and for once in those days I was bought to the court to be sat on a high stool in front of the Judge ( in full regaila ) to say which parent I wished to go to. Having no memory of him much in the time before I was 5 (depression days) and him enlisting on the news of Britain declareing war. The only time I remember him was the 2 or 3 times he came home on leave, and copped a hiding each time ( my fault really). It was a no contest, but just his spitefull way of getting mum worried. I can relate to the position of your youngest, Amber no matter how young he is he will be cogent of the situation believe me
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 10, 2008 2:51 PM

Well said Aliane,
A so-called FwB relationship "let's just have fun and see where things go" does often keep one of the parties "dangling" hoping that one day the person they love will change his/her mind and want them seriously as a partner.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 2:49 PM

Marcus @ 2.31pm: When you stay in your Adult you are so good! And I'm even more late for work, but it was worth it to read that, half a day earlier.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 2:46 PM

Amberlight.

OK. A motherhood statement.
Not sure I am deliberately insulting anyone. I might make the odd reasoned vitriolic comment though.
I assume the young bloke you refer to is you son and he is a bit miserable about a break up with his girlfriend.
He is not a virgin then in the full sense and is on the path to adulthood. Better a bit of pain and confusion followed by insight for a boy or a girl than to marry a virgin and 28 years later find youself in a rough place like this to go through adolescence a second time.
Do you read Steve Biddulph?

Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 2:45 PM

Good point marcus ... maybe we should view some marriages as just past their use by date and not begrudge the split up. If a marriage produced children and saw them through their education then it was in that way a success. Maybe those two people have then grown apart and it is time for them to move on and find new partners for that stage in their life. It's an idea.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 10, 2008 2:42 PM

Friends with Benefits...another words...The Emotional Prenup......or .....Sex, No Serious Relationship....

This is presented throwaway sentence...do one account, to turned over to go to sleep with them. The only things wanted is access to their pants/skirt.

One person for Sex Explicit....the other holding might get handsome "Interest" in returned can hopefully work-out offered for Sex payment for holding back to them. ....this are the reason...eg:...one has,.. Financially Secured, Sex-fantasy gratification arousing excitement,.... Social Activities Interaction,....Insecurities Unattractive Personal Capabilities " ugly"....absolutely can convinced, that can change them as we wanted...."Wrong motivation indeed"...

Some people are inclined to this concept, because focus on ..happy ending stories....So, when said, I just want some Fun... But who knows one day...I want a serious relationship. In that cause ...very simple , you do what they wants...agree to their terms giving effectively - No Strings Contact,....be a doormat, sex-slave, server to provider...acted like a Robot...command by authority and should be obey or punishment should imposed by dumping no longer useful on their appetite.

FWB or Emotional Prenup....id effectively agreement to devalue all wonderful things about relationship And LOVE you want and deserved. Straight-up not looking for anything serious relationship.

There are many phases may use such as " we're having "Fun"...let's see how things it goes..then from that moment utters those words same way, ...forfeiting your rights into meaningful relationship. BUT, the problem is sighting might change and sees clear signal fantasies turn into mixed wrong message. Some finds it's OK for a moment..then sex obviously the intimate reply to convince into serious relationship to cling-on, BUT the painful truth is only felt horny again. No entice them to settle down.

Serious Relationship is develops over the time with mutual attraction,...start in small flirting and a little games, knows when moves to a deeper level and if your stomach feels little butterflies then there where started and mostly men...you need to realized,.. Men cares about you,..you know where you stand !!!...No points in breaking...

Understand the small print clear message...otherwise no points to be a martyrs...just old saying..."save your tears in - Tears of Joy....or ..Tears of Funeral "...expression for .. "Tears of Love"...

Posted by: aliane at March 10, 2008 2:41 PM

Marcus

Thats sounds right, the primary task had been completed, childern mostly raised, and there were significant differences in belief structures between my ex wife and myself. We get along fine now, but there was unhappiness for both of us in the last few years of marriage.

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 2:37 PM

Sorry Marcus. I misjudged you. I thought it was something less emotional.

But it must be a handicap to your commitment elsewhere. Maybe it was for suggesting that, that she got such a serve today. Painful thing, truth.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 2:34 PM

Virgil.
Perhaps these marriages have not failed if the primary tasks have been completed succesfully?
Because a couple separate or a relationship did not pass an arbitrary duability test does not indicate failure.It can actually indicate great success and an opportunity.
What is wrong with being honest and acknowledging that people grow apart and get bored? Sociologists and anthropologists reckon 7 years is about the average length of a 'marriage'-not though the time a couple may ber together.
Many marriages are those of convenience. Many men feel trapped in sham marriages of social expectation and their wives never see it. They fulfil their paternal obligations and feel no great compulsion for misplaced social obligation.
I have met dozens of women here who now have a much bigger view of life because they were released from a stultifying marriage.
Cheers.

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 2:31 PM

Hello Marcus,
I can feel my "parent" rising to the surface again with your comments to Lynath and TW!! You can be so brilliant Marcus, why sully your contributions with insults?

No actually Marcus, I have seen both men and women hurt, especially a young adolescent male, by a FwB situation, he hoped that she would eventually care for him, she didn't and went on to pair up with one of his friends. (Not everything we say is just about blokes, you know!!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 2:27 PM

Kianee @ 1.46pm: All good stuff, as usual from you. Always glad to see your name as I scroll up. A couple of comments:

You lumped puritanical and cautious together.

I see puritanical/radical Islam as a cunning plot to make this life less enjoyable, so the hereafter becomes more desireable, and thus more worth foregoing available joy in this life. A viceless circle? Or one leading to suicide bombers?

But I see cautious as an essential defence mechanism. Caveat emptor! Especially if the merchant is trying to sell you milky-white snake oil, and has a plausible sales pitch, and his hand elsewhere than in your wallet ....

Yes people change with time. And usually at different speeds. You're in similar places when you meet, then one has a growth spurt and disappears out of sight.

Don't think you can rekindle a dead fire. But try blowing on the last tiny ember, and gradually feeding it a tiny amount of tinder.

Too much lunchbreak Bill, you sociable loafer!. Back to work. Seeyezall.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 2:20 PM

I think the demarkation line between FWB and a relationship can sometimes be in the minds of the participants.

Relationship seems to fall more on the monogamous side, whereas FWB seems to have a more plural aspect. Todays discussion is very lively and well attended.

It is a public holiday here in SA with temperature expected to be 39c so I dont feel inclined to work my business, or go out before dark, as I Have had a headache all morning which may have been a bit of sunstroke, or the fact that going into a hotel at Glenelg around 3pm yesterday, every time I thought it would be good to go, went outside, and was quickly sent back because of the 40c temp.

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 2:19 PM

Hi Lynath,
I just wanted to comment on your post @ 11:24 AM.
I know what you are saying, but things were a little different with me, because I left my husband. After we did the "counselling" bit and it was pretty obvious things were all but over, my ex must have decided one of us was going to leave (and it wasn't going to be him, he wanted our house!). He ignored me, ran me down to our children "your mother is unstable", "I don't know what is wrong with your mother, she'll probably end up in a mental institution" (I was severely depressed at that time)
When I told him that I had found a place to live and was leaving, he went to our children and told them that they would never have any stability if they went with me and that he needed them to stay with him to be able to keep "our home". Luckily, I had insisted we have shared custody of our youngest son, (the older ones were old enough to make up their own mind) and once I realised what he was up to had gone to get legal advice, etc.
I slept on the sofa bed in our lounge while I waited for the house I was going to rent to become vacant, it wasn't a pleasant time to say the least.

According to my children, my ex-husband was not at all upset when I left; however, I spent the next 18 months or so devastated and grieving. He on the other hand was dating within 3 months of my "departure"
I don't think he has ever cared what went wrong, because as far as he was concerned (and right through our marriage) it was all me anyway.

I am fine now, I spent a lot of time soul-searching and working my way through things. The hardest time (for me) was when he met someone he wanted to become serious with and decided to use our youngest son to prove to his new love that our marriage broke up because I was really a "psycho- b****" That was really hard, but that relationship broke up after a few months and things have settled down to "civilised" now (until the next instalment, I suppose) I don't think it will be so hard next time because our son is getting older and realises what his father says isn't always true.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 2:11 PM

marriage is the easiest relationship to define, as it is celebrated with a piece of paper (usually given to the wife) Why? is this because the wife values the piece of paper more, therefore is less likely to lose it?

My marriage finished after 23 years, some here mentioned 25 and 26 years? why, after lasting so long, when people might expect to see their days out with this person, do they fail after so many years?

Surely after being together this long there is something there.

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 2:05 PM

Amberlight. istj54.
I think you have some insight into the power balance of some relationships with your P1 P2 comments. I assume you relate to the P2, who is usually the female.
After a few days of discussion here the FWB concept has already become stereotyped as sexually based or biased.Not necessarily so.
The 32 year friendship I have had with the girl I mentioned has had little to do with sex although we have have found ourselves in the cot, or intimate many times. It was a potential P1, P2 relationship but I never allowed it to get to that stage. The power dynamic that existed originally - she was my younger sisters friend (and next door neighbour; yikes!) and had a crush on me, has long gone. We shared many friends and aquaintances and because we spent adolescence in a Victorian country town, many reminiscences.
Virgil. No we don't have any particular social expectations thrust on us and are definitely not bound by any oath of sexual exclusivity. Common sense rules. It is pretty low key and unremarkable. We might not catch up sometimes for a couple of years. Sometimes sexual intensity wears such things out. She has met a couple of my girlfriends over the years and they have been able to tolerate each other which is as much as can be expected.
Lynath dear, if I see something relevant and cogent or not blindingly obvious about relationships and male processes come from you I will be flabbergasted. For all your earnest worthiness and pontifications you have almost no insight. FWB sex destabilising society? You sound like old what was his name, BA Santamaria, on the pill in the 60's. FFS. Honestly, when was the last time you had a passionate penis pointed at you?
Warpedone. ;-) I can see you getting a bit excited by all this sex talk and recent attention from girly girls. Congress in the House of eructating Representatives.
For you the safe and likely process involved in having multiple partners might involve giving your fingers names.

Cheers Marquis ;-}

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 1:55 PM

TLD @ 12.48pm: Nice to see you bringing us back to the blogtheme - or were you just reminding us of your totally hilarious story a couple of nights ago? Still giggling ....

And at 12.19 - OMG! I am completely gobsmacked. No wonder you value true love so highly. I am chastened.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 1:54 PM

Old geezer Actually it was Michael who outed Marcus not me

Posted by: abckenny at March 10, 2008 1:51 PM

wnw@11.29 a marriage without love lust and passion is colder than ice
timewarp at 12;02 I agree about being cautious too puritanical, but the pendulum can swing too far in the other direction as per TLD@11;24
It is up to each couple to form their own rules, to do what is right for BOTH. Even if a loving genuine relationship is established. I somehow think that the problems occur because we humans have the capacity for moderation and change with the circumstances in life. As circumstances and attitudes change one or the other becomes dissatisfied and the rot begins
TLD@12;05 either the chemistry is there or not …….. very difficult to rekindle after the fire has gone out. It takes two to tango.
timewarp@12:11 these “pervy players” often more than double dip
a player:an egocentric, sexual/power addict, who consistently and concurrently seeks and scores with different partners
Virgil @12;39 just continue on this subject on the next blog if it closes

Posted by: kianee at March 10, 2008 1:46 PM

OG @ 1.30pm: No mate - I beat you to it at 11.37am. But I was too subtle for some.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 1:44 PM

TLD@ 12.19 and 1.02pm and Virgil @ 12.39: The key word is entropy, borrowed from physics.

Definition: In any system (incl. a couple) everything will gradually slow down and finally grind to a cold dead stop - UNLESS someone/something is continually inputting energy. Forever.

Think tandem bike with no-one pedalling - soon falls over. And if they're going uphill at the time, it stops and falls over a lot sooner.

Worse if only one person ever pedals - she (he in my case) gets jack of that after a while and also stops pedalling.

I believe it's worst of all if their partner is only interested in pedalling over to the side of the road to lie on them for a while in the grass, while they look at the blue sky and think of their enormous job list.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 1:38 PM

Darn Kenny,
I was going to mention her and her 5 daughters in regard to Marcus and you beat me to it.
Marcus
Then they told me that it sent you blind, not rude, crude and vulgar as in your case, but you are obviously not blind as to your liking for going around checking mens trouser zippers to see what is hanging out, might I suggest Marcus that you can leave your fly undone. Just put the cover on your keyboard and give it a rest till you get the sensibility and respect for people who a lot of bloggers consider your superior in every way.

Lynath let me join the others that agree with your posts this morning, they resonated with me and I found them helpful and instructive.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 10, 2008 1:30 PM

Yes Lynath @ 1:02 PM, exactly!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 1:12 PM

ISTJ: OK, I'll take the righteous-indignation boot off the other foot. Pax. Although you were stingey - didn't even rate my big performance last week.

Virgil: My spare mum (dad's sister, later married to mum's brother) gave me a piece of advice at 20, based on her shortlived first marriage to a beautiful wounded Yank soldier, and her lifelong second to a solid almost stolid dairy-farmer:

"If you lust after her, just have an affaire, and see how long the flame burns.

But if you can't bear the thought of her tousled hair and unlipsticked face NOT being on the other side of your breakfast table every morning, marry her."

At 72, I haven't got a lot of years left for affaires before I settle down. (Hey, I didn't say no time ...)

And I agree with WnW, if there's no passion, the dreaded flannelette PJs have got you, at any age.

So I'm looking for another dear friend who, unlike my current ones, does want (or expects she soon will want) to promote herself to lover, in both senses simultaneously, TLD.

Then I hope for my life's ultimate and best reward - a blissful mix of satisfying days based on shared values and interests and mutual caring, Virgil, but iced WnW now and then with an elderly, enormously-toned-down version of SallyNoosa's goal, graphically described (that girl can sure write) in her mind-blowing post at 11.42pm on the 8th.

And hopefully continuing for yonks, with more and more of the former and (let's get real here) progressively less of the latter.

Or preferably just as much, but with fewer resultant sprains and pains. (Just kidding - I'm into maximising the Big O count, while completely avoiding collateral damage.)

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 1:12 PM

Hi WNW,
Actually in the early days of our marriage there was a lot of passion and lust. It just all seemed to fizzle out over the years as children and responsibilities took their toll.
I literally raised the children on my own and had all the responsibilty for the tedious things in life such as the bills, cleaning, etc.
My ex on the other hand had all these "outside the home" interests that were always more important than his family.
But he had no appreciation that all this was rather hard work and couldn't understand why I was so tired and resentful.
When he did help out it was with the expectation that I would "show my appreciation" in return,so it all changed for me from lust and passion to just another chore.
He never understood that what goes on outside the bedroom affects what happens in it. When you've been put last on his priority list all the time and the only time he actually "notices" you is......
Well I'm sure there would be a few people on here who can identify with my story...

Lynath I agree some young people do seem to be opting for the FwB scenario. But talking to my own kids, most of them do really want to settle down eventually with one person.
Boys are finding it harder because girls are quite happy to use them for FwB not being at all interested in anything else because they are not ready for children, have their own careers and independence and don't really need a bloke, except for....

Timewarp no "puritanical ancient deodorant attitude" from me, just a concern that in FwB relationships no matter how "honest" they are, there is always the potential for one person to be emotionally devastated

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 1:06 PM

virgil ... I think you'll find marcus is talking about Mrs Palmer.

thelynathdiary and marcus ... I agree that when the passion dies in a marriage you need to work on it but there is only so much you can do, then it just starts to tear away at your self-esteem. Yes, marriage can get monotonous when life is busy with work and children but a little passion doesn't actually eat into your day much if at all. Maybe I am too much of a romantic but I believe the little things count for a lot.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 10, 2008 1:03 PM

Virgil, accepting lack of passion in long term marriages is the norm is a myth.
Passion does ebb and flow and there will be times when things aren't great. If you stick those times out you will end up with a very fulfilling relationship.
To keep passion you have to continue to grow personally throughout the marriage, not slip into laziness in regard to presentation and not take a partner for granted.
If you want to rekindle passion then you have to take action and romance the partner all over again. This may not work if the timing is not right...eg if there is a stressful event happening which would limit the partners ability to respond. eg a new baby, a troublesome teen, death of a parent etc. The romance part does not necessarily mean turning up with flowers every night. It could mean doing something for or with your partner to show them that you really care about them..might even be cooking the dinner or doing the dishes together. Some men think that once they go into the bedroom the romance switch can be turned on...no, no no...it will not happen if the partner has been virtually ignored the rest of the day.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 1:02 PM

Would it be appropriate to accept a call from a FWB if you haven't heard them fart in an inappropriate setting?

After all surely there is no need for FWB to send their representative as they know there will be no interest in them from the waist up?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:48 PM

Marcus
How do you have a FWB for 32 years?

Presumably over that length of time, I would imagine you two are exclusive to each other?

If exclusive, then the "relationship" word comes to mind. When you two go out with friends, I suppose other friends expect you two to arrive and leave a gathering together.

My concept of FWB was usually either exclusive, or not, usually for a shorter duration than a relationship

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 12:46 PM

I suppose Karina will pull the plug on this blog anytime now as it is interesting and people, are communicating about the topic, of which FWB is much more beneficial to spend our energies discussion than farting.

So, what do we do, if we have a loving relationship, very little sex and no passion?

If the participants are married, then this is probably the normal course of events for this form of union.

If participants are not married, then they have to try harder, or one will leave.

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 12:39 PM

Blueyes Hi. Those "disappearers" usually turn up with a new profile name a short time after...AND sometimes have the nerve to try to contact again.

Do they really think we are that silly that we won't recognise them or desperate enough to allow them a second chance at their game?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:33 PM

I have had one fwb for 32 years.
Cheers Marcus

Marcus the fungus and mould on it is not your friend.....

I have two children as proof that I had a FWB twice! What have you got?

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:24 PM

Passion and lust are something that can be built on in a relationship...that is what takes the effort people talk about after the initial phase has calmed down

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:19 PM

...oh dear..once again I agree with you TW...and do apololise yet again for what was a throw away saying that I would have used on "any" age group...will never use it again though...not pc...let it rest.

I, too, think that passion and lust are necessary in a "great" relationship...otherwise, is it not just being Friends With Benefits...or something far less than that, just friends...who cohabit?
I've waited this long and nothing short of "great" will do.

Posted by: istj54 at March 10, 2008 12:11 PM

TLD: Ours crossed. You make many valid points about effects. Customer arriving in 5 mins. Must go work. Cheers all.

And what about my suggestion yesterday or night before that we have some fun thinking of suitable slang names for those who have congress with multiple partners in the same time period?

I suggested double-dippers for blokes, postboxes or mailboxes for girls.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:11 PM

woodnwine, passion and lust in long term marriages or partnerships are known to be cyclical. If you were friends and had a basically good marriage then it would have been better to hang onto that and work on rekindling the passion..it would have happened!

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 12:05 PM

Once upon a puritanical time, ALL sex was very dirty, and the only circumstances where you could even think of beginning to forgive yourself for indulging in it, let alone for actually enjoying it (perish the sinful thought!!), was when:
* you were both young (No dirty old men thank you very much, OR dirty old post-menopausal women ...)
* you were deeply in love, and believed he was too
* you had been legally married by whatever church had brainwashed you that all the other churches, let alone all the other religions, were Shaitan's recruiting offices, and
* you fervently hoped that this coupling would produce a child, because if you didn't hope that, you were just wallowing in the most base of the sins of the flesh.

And also, if you were a princess,
* you bit the blanket and thought of England, and the good that your marriage/sacrifice was doing to international relations and Imperial power.

I may be wrong (as I often am) but I have felt sure last night and today that I have sniffed at least a whiff of this powerful puritanical ancient deodorant attitude, right here in this blog.

Second opinions, other that the predictable Marcus?

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:02 PM

Timewarp, hi! I do sound strict today don't I?
Friends who become lovers are in a relationship. The "silent shaggers" you describe sound like someone having an affair. Not many people like to be in the situation of only being used for sex while being excluded from all other areas of someone's life. (affair or not)
To me that would be soul destroying.

I have respect for the honesty of Prostitutes who are at least upfront about what they are doing and earning a living.
What I find sad is the young women and men who are being led to believe that this idea of FWB is great. Sex amongst groups of friends has just become as common as a handshake. I am talking about "hooking up" as they call it..not even a steady romantic attachment with one person.
All this is doing is helping to spread the rampant STD's and screwing up the heads(no pun!) of young people as well as destabilising society in the long run.
HIV and AIDS are on the increase in this country again.
Young people are finding there is no direction or guidelines in life and it is becoming pretty empty and unhappy.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 11:59 AM

I thought the very same thing, Timewarp...Marcus you may need to seriously consider your feelings for this person...and did you have breaks when you had a partner...I guess if you had a stand-by/back-up it was easier to never really work on a relationship....I meant that last generally, not inferring that you didn't put everything into things.

Posted by: istj54 at March 10, 2008 11:44 AM

I havent caught up with the blogs since yesterday morning, but what are you saying WnW, that there needs to be passion and lust for a relationship to work?

What about love and feeling safe?

Is that enough? or must passion and lust be a part of the equation as well?

Posted by: virgil at March 10, 2008 11:40 AM

Kenny,
Yes, sounds like a player. Keeping you in reserve and stringing you along "just in case". No woman who was really attracted to a man(and you are attractive Kenny) would miss the opportunity to meet him in order to catch up with a cousin . You have had a lucky escape! I hate the feeling of being deceived once realisation dawns that you have been used but better to find out sooner than later.
Having had a partner who had an affair I have zero tolerance for any situation which involves me, a man and any other woman. whether it is a player whom I haven't met or not! It just makes me feel a bit sick.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 11:38 AM

Marcus @ 2.50am: I was very interested that you've had a single FWB ever since you were 17. You must be very attached.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 11:37 AM

Hey amberlight ... a lightbulb just went off in my head too. I was also friends with my wife but there was no passion, no lust ... just two people living together, helping each other and having sex occassionally. FWB! It eventually ended because I wanted more ... I wanted love, passion, lust and we didn't have that. In hindsight we should never have married, we should have just been friends.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 10, 2008 11:29 AM

Amberlight, what you have described about your marriage and the end of it is very common.

Those thoughts which you keep replaying in your head as you try to work out what went wrong or what you did wrong or how you could have saved the marriage 'if only' will drive you crazy if you let them.
The person exiting will invariably state (and make it known to all who will listen) that you 'caused them to be unhappy' , that you 'never loved them or supported them' that 'you just don't meet their needs anymore' that 'you were never there for them' that 'you were too fat, too thin, too old etc etc etc". It is their way of off loading responsibility and guilt to enable them to leave and believe that they will retain respect. The person being left is usually in such a stunned and grief stricken state that they automatically believe what they are being told and believe that it must all be true and they deserved this to happen.
The cure is to start questioning all the comments made and coming up with some real reasons why the other person exited ,when you know you put a great effort and love into the relationship over so many years. Your self esteem will soar and you will start to heal.(I am using the word "you" meaning no just Amberlight but everyone who has been or is in the situation. )

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 10, 2008 11:24 AM

Sorry I meant "put" me, our kids and our realtionship......

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 10:08 AM

Actually, a "lightbulb" suddenly went on in my head. Maybe I've been kidding myself....
I'm thinking that is maybe what I actually had in the 24 year relationship I had with my ex-husband!! I was always his friend, supporter and sounding board (he rarely was interested in what I feeling or what was happening to me) but after years of this when I finally told him that I was serious, that he needed to me, our kids and our relationship ahead of everything else in his life; he decided that he couldn't do that and didn't want to be married anymore!!

Maybe he just married me because he knew he couldn't keep his "friend" any other way (plus his mother was 'pushing' him as living together just wasn't "right" back then in a small country town!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 10:04 AM

I think that they may well be attracted to each other WNW, but not interested in an exclusive committed relationship.

I can see that friends having sex which is what most people mean when they use the term "Friends with Benefits" relationship, could be useful when people are going through that transitional time after a long relationship; not ready for anything too heavy as still needing to grieve, etc. But I'm pretty sure that I couldn't have such a friendship.

While I don't necessarily believe as lynath does that "There is something really crass and cheap about it" I tend to think; yes okay it all sounds great if the cards are put on the table at the beginning etc., but I'm never sure that such relationships are so "equal".
Some people would agree to such a relationship because they hoped that the other person (P1) will eventually want something more permanent and committed. P1 may have no intention of ever wanting more because that person (P2) is not what they are looking for in a partner, P1 is commitment phobic, or a myriad of other reasons. P2 is a nice loyal friend but not quite "good enough" for P1 to want to have as a lifetime partner.
The potential for P2 to be hurt is huge and despite the fact that P1 is sure that they both can be honest with each other etc., they may never truly know how P2 feels. This kind of relationship could go on for years, P2 hanging in there hoping that one day..........
There is nothing "equal" about such a relationship. The old saying that he (she)who loves least controls the relationship is very true in such a scenario.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 10, 2008 9:48 AM

How can people have sex with someone they are not attracted to? If they are attracted to them, then why haven't they formed a relationship instead of a friendship? Friends are friends, lovers are lovers ... I'm still confused.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 10, 2008 9:08 AM

Morning Lynath,
just reading the blogs of the night owls. Your third type is very annoying. I can think of a few, the most recent accepting a kiss and an email, agreeing to meet, would email after being away for work the next few days. He didn't so I sent him a very polite email asking out of curiosity (no hard feelings) whether he had changed his mind and "poof" suddenly gone from RSVP.Why answer in the affirmative in the first place if not really interested. At least they could have the courage to say they have changed their minds.
Marcus, your comment to Lynath re.no practical experience may be unfounded. I would have to go back and read many blogs to check but in my opinion, we all may have had these experiences of fwb but do not want to openly admit to them. Admissions of these things might not be something we want aired to all those who read the blogs and could be a possible date.Opinions do not always equate with experence or lack of experience.I for one am not going to 'tell all' on a public forum.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 10, 2008 7:58 AM

Timewarp 12:41
If you really want to live the most useful-others supporting life in the universe it might be a good idea to do up your fly and approach the task rationally mate.
I would suggest that claiming sightings of saintly apparitions (and divining long journeys and serious illness from tea leaves) is very likely connected to temporal lobe epilepsy rather than divine interference. A chapel is a likely place for a fearful and religiously bamboozled adolescent brain to fester too. It's the place to pray to the man born to a virgin mother and with no father. He was also the same hypothetical bloke who yelled out to Lazarus who had been dead long enough to pong, who jumped back to life. And so on.
I think the best approach to problems might be to approach them rationally and with reason and adult responsibility rather than invoking the supernatural.
Have to take issue with your sycophantic comments describing lynathsdiarrhoea's last post 9-3 1:24 as "erudite and clearly based on your unassailable values" . Erudite means learned or scholarly. Prudefeme Lynath talks of the 'concept' of a fwb. She has obviously has had no practical experience, so her utterance is subjective, not learned, as well as being moralistic nonsense.
I have had one fwb for 32 years.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 10, 2008 2:50 AM

Re lynaths 3rd type of player.
Hi Ken

Thank you very much for your interest. I have met a very nice man with a daughter the same age as mine and lives a lot closer. I am sorry I didn't get to meet you - perhaps another time. I am ging off RSVP now for a while.

Please take care and good luck with your search,
This from a lady who couldn't meet this weekend due to having to catch up with her cousin whom she hadn't seen for 6 weeks.
Think I've just been PLAYED ....again

Posted by: abckenny at March 10, 2008 2:01 AM

Blueeyes @ 10.45pm: Yes, I'm religious. Hard not to be, after seeing a saintly apparition in my boarding-school chapel at 14.

But my focus on living the most useful, others-supporting life that I can comes from a wish to make my corner of the universe as civilised as possible, not in the hope of future rewards.

I posted on this in great detail (you know me ...) last week when we were discussing possible alternative afterlives, and if you're interested, I'll give you the exact ref. here.

Lookit the time! Night all.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:41 AM

youareinPerth @ 10.12pm: No, I'm not a roof plumber. They work mainly on top of the roof.

I'm a mechanical engineer, and in this job my moonlighting sparkie subbie and I were installing a chandelier hoist of my design - so you can touch the wall button, and the chandelier lowers for cleaning and bulb-changing. Every palace needs one.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:30 AM

Wishful @ 10.05: The one who made the most out of me (till RSVP stamps - up near 150 now) was the 1900 No after they changes from snail-mail replies to voicemail - I got it down to about $8 to hear her audio enlargement of her ad, hang up and pen my reply, then phone again, hear her ad again, then take a deep breath and read my reply in my best Charles Southward voice.

W @ 11.34pm: No black book, but now and then I have to empty about 20 out of my mobile's memory, to make room.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 10, 2008 12:24 AM

TLD: Erudite as ever, and clearly based on your unassailable values.

I note your total abhorrance of 'recreational sex' and would like to ask whether you would disapprove more of friends who later widened the bandwidth of their interface to include recreational sex as well, or disapprove more of what I call silent shaggers (because I deplore the usual term of F-buddies) - couples whose interface involves only sex, without any significant conversation, outings together or with other friends, or any of the other sharing behaviours that we associate with friendship.

I see this behaviour as ongoing mutual prostitution by barter, and wonder what you think?

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 11:53 PM

Evening Jen...how's things? Timewarp....you must have a black book that reads like the yellow pages!!!

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 9, 2008 11:34 PM

Well said Lynath,
from experience if someone is "too busy" for you at the very beginning of a possible relationship - then there isn't much hope for later on!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 11:34 PM

JenJen again: Very different now on RSVP.

Then I was replying to their sketchy Ads in the paper - very little to go on. And after my divorce I was a bit depressed for about 8 years, so my reply letters were probably pretty drack and unattractive. And what woman wants a sad sack?

Didn't try advertising myself, because they said you'd get about 30 replies, including at least 20 that would sound OK.

I was working 80 hours a week, trying to keep feeding too many of my beloved staff while still keeping my business afloat, so I had only time for one date a week. I felt that if I advertised, it would be unfair to ask No 20 to wait 5 months for her interview.

My current self-esteem is miles higher, so now in RSVP I am a lot more cheeky.

I send out kisses in small batches to anyone in my wanted age bracket and within 25km who has none of my "veto factors" - smoking, only separated, wanting someone rather different from me, etc etc.

Then in my invited first email I say that I prefer to meet over a meal rather than just a coffee, and also mention that I believe that this century, going Dutch is more appropriate for a first date involving a meal, "unless my date is too old-fashioned to relate to that."

I justify this by explaining that I am not sexist, and that I expect my company will certainly be as enjoyable to her as hers will be to me. And as evidence I cite my experience during my last hundred RSVP first dates:

Three demanded coffee only, quickly looked me up and down and then vamoosed asap (one with a burnt mouth, from skolling her short black), but the other 97% CHOSE to stay chatting with me for over 2.1/2 hours, and most of them, well past 3 hours.

At that stage, 2 or 3 have said they weren't prepared to invest so much time in deciding whether they'd like to add me to their menagerie, (good riddance) and the rest have signed on fot the FD.

Only about 10 of the resulting dates were difficult for me - almost always when they'd hopefully kissed me, despite the mismatch that was obvious from comparing our profiles.

Women my age were trained to wait co-dependently till the feller asked them out, so if one plucks up her courage and sends me a kiss, I reckon a gentleman will give her at least one date, and be nice there, before either saying what I wrote in my post below, or asking her for another date if she seems suitable.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 11:29 PM

Just quickly skimming recent topics I have to say that I agree with iaminperth's opinion on the concept of friends with benefits. There is something really crass and cheap about it, and would you really want to use a 'friend' or be used like that? The need for, or indulgence in. instant gratification does not lead to long term happiness.
This concept is even different to the traditonal one night stand because it involves making use of a friend as a convenience. It reduces the act of love to something akin to sharing a cup of coffee. The romance and passion(which you still might find in a one night stand) and the "specialness" is taken away and replaced by nothing more than a physical workout . Are people becoming robots? Is sex so meaningless? If so, it is quite sad.

Players and definition of.... I don't agree that a player is anyone who agrees to meet then doesn't want to take things further. I have heard it the words "He turned out to be a player" many times on the blogs by recent rejectees!
If you meet and there is no attraction, then of course it is sensible to end the contact. To me there are three types of the "player species"
Someone who has so little confidence that they want constant reassurance that they are attractive and so contact everyone on RSVP , asks for emails they have no intention of replying to and have no conscience about wasting other people's time and money or causing angst.
The second variety is the type who are looking for only one night stands or who are married or attached but conceal the true intentions/facts prior to meeting and possibly getting what they want before moving on.

The third type are the ones I find most infuriating and deceitful. They are the ones who make contact and sometimes email, or accept a contact and an email. They reply and are very pleasant and encouraging but often make out they are a bit new to this or unsure or shy or hesitant. They are slow to reply to follow up emails and usually say they are sooooo busy at work or other things. They often state they can't wait to email you on the weekend. Of course you politely tell them all is okay and you look forward to hearing form them. Weekend comes and goes..waiting..nothing...sometimes another small email...and more excuses. You notice that they have managed to find time to check into RSVP..still benefit of doubt.
Usual outcome is either no further contact or an email a few weeks down track.... expecting you to be still waiting happily.
These are the players who string people along . They will be seeing or in contact with at least one other person and they are arrogant enough to think that they will 'decide' on further contact when they are ready and if the other contacts don't work out.
If I contact someone then I only concentrate on that person until it ends for whatever reason(one day I will find a keeper )
My rule now is they get the benefit of the doubt for no more than two days if they are still checking into RSVP. I also have a busy life and yet I am able to answer emails from people and would make a point of it, if it is someone I am interested in romantically. I am tired of the ridiculous excuses for bad behaviour and manners and am yet to understand what the purpose really is for doing this.If that is the treatment and lack of consideration and respect they dish out pre meeting who knows what they would be like later.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 9, 2008 11:24 PM

Timewarp, I just cant believe you havent yet found Miss Right Enuff ....
With all your efforts, you deserve to !
Evening wishful...........:)

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 11:12 PM

Australia Post and/or Telstra must of loved you TW!!

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 9, 2008 11:05 PM

Timewarp, I didn't know you were religious. The prayer is good.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 10:45 PM

JenJen: I'm at Mt Gravatt and today's job at 8 Mile Plains. Heavy rain here 9am and 11am with blue sky in between, then none, so I expected tennis. "Isolated showers."

My Sunday night tennis is at Stafford, Tues night's at Mt Gravatt East, now called Wishart.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 10:36 PM

Ceroc is a mixture of jive, salsa and rock n roll..You can google it and there is plenty of info about it.About 80 people go each lesson and you don't need to take a partner as they rotate you along the lines very frequently.They start with a beginners lesson and then have an intermediate following it.It is a great way to learn to dance and meet lots of people.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 10:35 PM

Thats a very nice way of ending things Timewarp when it is clear there is no further interest. Unfortunately however, not all men behave in such a gentlemanly manner when on a date..........perhaps I will just have to make it a rule that it is only ever coffee first up, daytime.

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 10:34 PM

Getting away fast? Before my present coupla years with RSVP I tried the newspaper personals for about 5 years in the late 1990s.

Answered over 300 women's Ads, with only a one-in-six phone response to my letters. Those 60 calls led to about 50 first dates, always formatted as just a coffee.

But 3 stretched from morning coffee to lunch to afternoon coffee and one to dinner -5 to 8 hours, before she said "Thank you Bill - this was the best fun I've had for years, but I'm looking for someone younger/richer/slimmer, so good luck."

Another four became good long-term platonic friends, and one a penfriend for about 6 months, but the rest were so unsuitable that as she sat down, I would say a small silent prayer:

"Thank you Lord, that this is a coffee lounge that I can decently escape from in 30 minutes, and not a desert island."

But no need for an escape clause - we'd met only for coffee and a short exploratory chat and we'd already had both of them. So I could honestly say after the 30 minutes which I consider to be the minimum attention that a girl deserves, for putting on some lipstick at least and getting herself to the date

"Thank you for coming to meet me, looking so nice. I've enjoyed chatting with you, but I think we're different kinds of people. So I plan to keep on meeting more and more people, till I find my match. I hope you do too."

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 10:26 PM

Hi Timewarp........not much time to play here these days.........head down in text books :(
Seemed like a good idea back in January !!
Wonder where it was raining........dry as a bone out here on the westside. But wherever it was, it sounds like you could do with a bit of a rest !!

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 10:24 PM

I can hear your calves rejoicing from here.I prefer a gentle massage for the legs and preferably by someone good looking to me.Just googled wuss and you are correct in the spelling Timewarp.It's quiet and tame here tonight.Should I be somewhere else?

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 10:15 PM

110kgs up a ladder TW, now that is exercise. Are you a roof plumber? That is really hard work. I think you lift three times your own weight climbing up ladders and you should be careful, if you ever fell, it would be a hell of a thump !!!!!

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 10:14 PM

Hello Blue, UWA has Ceroc classes and not being a dancer don't have a clue. I'm a great walker and I used to ride horses very competetively but have not got into dancing. Exercising 7 horses per day from 4a.m. and working full time and then stabling and grooming in the evening didn't leave a lot of time for learning to dance. However, I know that's just an excuse just preferred to sit around with a great drink and good food and good conversation. Also sometimes my legs and feet would be sore at the end of the day as well, 3 day events are hard work I can tell you...great fun, but very taxing physically. So, what is Ceroc ?

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 10:12 PM

My calves are rejoicing. Ten seconds after my alarm rang to get them down off the bolster and me up out of bed, an SMS came in "Just rained hard on this side of town. (20km north of me) Tennis is off."

Hopefully not on Tuesday night, only 5km away.

JenJen: Thank you. Loved that joke. Been missing you round.

Blueeyes: Yes, baths bore me too. Prefer my warm foot bath with the vibrating acupressure knobs to pass the sorest parts of the sole across and back. And I can type etc at the same time.

Today's horrible house had a 2-storey ladder - one to the first floor (stairs not installed yet) and 15 metres away, a second one to the manhole - Oh sorry ISTJ - roofspace access point.

Then back across in the roofspace to the hoist, located exactly above the lower ladder. Stepping high over airconditioning duct tubes, and only on the framing, so as not to crash straight through the gyprock ceiling sheeting to the floor below.

Keeps me young, but at a cost: I'm losing weight but still 110kg, so narrow ladders put heavy local pressure on my metatarsal arches, especially when hurrying upwards with a load, to save time. Winge winge.

And on second thoughts, I think you spell it "wuss" not "woos."

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 9:54 PM

Since most of us have kids (even grown up ones) ,they can be very useful for having to meet them somewhere. Usually early in the first meet (and I mostly only go for a cuppa) I ask what they have lined up for the afternoon and add that I have to be somewhere else by a certain time if I think that this is no match. Have never organised a first meet that would take longer than a cuppa and short chat.But have never run out too quickly-I do stay long enough to be polite.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 9:33 PM

And those are the dates where he (or she) forgot to send his representative :))

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 9:20 PM

Great idea blueeyes........would be interested to hear others experiences on how they ended "the date from hell"........

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 9:18 PM

Am laughing Jen-maybe there's an idea for a new topic. 'What excuse did you last make to end a date quickly?'

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 9:14 PM

After being with her all evening, the man couldn't take another minute with his blind date. Earlier, he had secretly arranged to have a friend call him to the phone so he would have an excuse to leave if something like this happened.
When he returned to the table, he put on a grim expression and said, “Bad news. My grandfather just died.”
“Thank God,” his date replied. “If yours hadn't, mine would have had to.”

Hmmmmmmm..........could have put that one to good use recently.....:)

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 9, 2008 9:11 PM

Might need a life saver on hand with all that stuff in the bath.If I fell asleep there I'd drown.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 8:54 PM

Timewarp and blueeyes ,…….. I do admire your discipline, w ell done!

Posted by: kianee at March 9, 2008 8:49 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot the candles. lol.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:41 PM

I'm with Kaz on the bath. Love 'em. And that lectric soda is good. Just add some essential oil. mmmm. Put some music on, a glass of wine if you like. Nice!
Btw. good on you for the walk!

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:40 PM

Blueyes a bath is always better with a glass of champagne and some candles.............K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 8:38 PM

Taa for the advice mamakaz. My problem is I get bored in the bath. Wish they made baths padded as I also find them uncomfortable-maybe I need a little padding.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 8:32 PM

Thanks Iaminp but hopefully look better tomorrow. Tonight I look exhausted. But there were about 20 of us walking so I had good company, lots of laughs (and gossip) and adult conversation. Mind you we avoided the topic of FWB.Getting out and burning up energy certainly makes going to sleep at night very easy. Most nights I don't even remember my head hitting the pillow. Gee a FWB would have to be quick then.Do you have ceroc in Perth? Google it and try it if you do.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 8:27 PM

Blueeyes run the bath, put some soothing lectric soda in it and soak.....
Lectric soda is great for aching muscles and feet, l use it a lot after a busy day on my feet...........K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 8:22 PM

Yikes Time and Blue, What energetic people you are, I thought I was pretty good walking the dog at the beach but no, apparently not. I think it's fabulous though because people who exercise at any time of their life look better I think. Everything seems to work better, eyes brighter, more alert, more grounded, everything. Lots of cheers for both of you......

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 8:07 PM

You live too far away Woodwine- can't wait that long

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:56 PM

Oh woodwine, I do know-just being the innocent here. Really do need a leg rub tonight- don't think have energy left for the other.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:53 PM

blueeyes ... if only you knew.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 9, 2008 7:47 PM

Am afraid my calves are woosses (how do you spell that) tonight. Still waiting for a FWB for leg massages. Note we haven't stipulated what specific benefit we might appreciate. I'm sure there are many different kinds.Will have to walk to the kitchen to get dinner-that might be too far.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:45 PM

Perth @ 12.43pm: Thank you for that excellent post - explained your position and values very clearly.

I see a different problem: if you and such a real friend did hop into the cot, I think it would be hard to stop at FWI (for intimacy - let's be specific.)

If it was me, I'd expect one of us to slip into love by mistake, like the exaample in one of my recent posts.

BTW, how much will I have to shorten my posts before anyone will read them, let alone comment?

Yes, Blueeyes @ 6.28pm: I can relate to that. I was up and down a manhole ladder and stepping across from truss to truss in the hot roofspace to where we were installing the chandelier hoist, quite too many times today.

Usually takes half a day, but today things went wrong - took us 7 hours, and only just home via supermarket.

My calves are telling me they don't want 2 hours' energetic tennis tonight as well, but I tell them not to be wooses, and I'l put them up for 40 minutes first. Now. Seeyez all

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 7:36 PM

Gene-what's the catch with the Hunter Valley trip?

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:02 PM

I have never had FBW's, in fact have never had many friends at all. Rather tortured upbringing that never allowed me the time to experience friendship in any way. It is sad that to this day I still find it hard to make friends at all. I do not see how it would work, would there not be the issue that some have said that one will fall for the other?

Posted by: harleyguy66 at March 9, 2008 6:55 PM

Back from the bush. Now I do need the FWB-a person who is good at massaging. We did 15kms out at Thirlmere Lakes. They set a cracking pace. On the return trip they did the 7 1/2 kms without a stop for breath. My feet are sore, legs tired and generally pooped especially since I went dancing for 3 hours last night and didn't get home till after midnight. Oh to be young again.
Gene, can't see your profile so how can we check you out if you are asking for kisses?
A few poeple asked about my aunt and her FWB. Never heard how the arrangement started but they were very good for each other. I think they felt it worked best because neither had to sell their houses and it didn't interfere with wills etc.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 6:28 PM

istj54
i just checked the paint ...it needs another coat.
Shutters should be here in about two weeks,
anyway....underbelly has deteriated into a sexual farce.
if i wanted to know w=hat the underworld do I now Know!!
They make drugs, sell them, screw women continuosly,kill somebody make more drugs, have a cup of coffee,screw more women,make more drugs, kill somebody,have a cup of coffee.........on and on and on ...........surely there is more to life in Melbourne ?????

Oh , anyone want a trip to the Hunter valley for a weekend for free?

Posted by: genegene at March 9, 2008 6:20 PM

OG - have you had your date yet? If so, how did it go?

Posted by: woodnwine at March 9, 2008 5:51 PM

PS. I'm with you on the swinging bit; but I have to confess I did vote Liberal once! (took me years to get over it!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 2:30 PM

Funniest post I've read in days Amber - thanks for the laugh!!

That phone call must've been rough but I'm glad you used it as an opportunity to learn and grow - well done!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 9, 2008 3:12 PM

Sorry another typo, I meant disgusted

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 3:03 PM

amdoingit sounds like your dad was at least a little supportive! I wonder why some mothers can be so "toxic" towards their own daughters? It must have been really hard to live with your parents when your mother was so disguste" with you.

I too have tried to be a support to my own children and not judge them, while instilling in them the need to believe in themselves but to also respect other people's points of view and differences.
I too allowed myself to be treated with little respect in my 22 year marriage. A huge eye-opener for me was when I rang a parent help-line in tears after my teengae son had said some truly horrible things to me and after listening to me and asking questions about our family life; the male counsellor pointed out to me that my boys would never respect me until I learned to respect myself!!
I had thought I did as I had done a lot of self-growth in my late 20s & 30s! I guess that phone call was really the beginning of a new way of thinking about myself

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 3:02 PM

You are right of course VDU, to each his own as the saying goes. I didn't think the discussion is/was about wrong or right; just about the differences in people's perceptions and feelings.

PS. I'm with you on the swinging bit; but I have to confess I did vote Liberal once! (took me years to get over it!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 2:30 PM

Thanks amber, To me this has nothing to do with sex this is about maintaining the quality of a relationship with a true friend.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 2:08 PM

Wow!!! What a lot to wade through!!!

Like most things in life, having a FwB is a personal choice that can work really well as long as both parties are on the same page. It's not something for everyone, but what is??

There are a lot of things I know I would never do (voting Liberal and swinging come to mind LOL), but that doesn't mean other people don't enjoy them or they are wrong in so doing... live and let live I reckon.

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 9, 2008 1:52 PM

I'm not sure that female (or male) sexual predators see what they do as undervaluing themselves, although they are certainly undervaluing the other person. Maybe sex is just sex to them, it means nothing and is just a bit of fun like going to the movies! They have no idea that to some people sex is meaningful, and even if they do, they don't care!

I do tend to agree with you iaminperth, regarding friends though, really good friends are hard to find. I also find it difficult to believe that once you introduce sex, your relationship can still be just about friendship.
What happens if one person makes the mistake of "falling in love", then things can never really be the same again. I guess if you both "fall in love" with each other, then that is different and would be a great outcome, but that would most likely be an unrealistic scenario.
It would be excruciatingly painful for the person who "fell" and also embarrassing. Putting myself in that postion, I would find it hard not to break off the friendship because keeping on would be too painful. (If it's not painful, then why are there so many songs about unrequited love?)
If it works successfully, that is great; I guess no one really knows if it works for them until they try it. And even then it may work well in a relationship with one person and end sadly with another. We can only really know how it feels for us, in reality we have no idea how much pain we may be putting the other person through.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 1:29 PM

Amberlight..can relate to you totally.. Had a very strict european upbringing and was convent schooled (like you ..K..).Needless to say boys were a no no. My father actually went against my mother and allowed me to go out on a date when I was 17. Got home a few minutes after midnight (that was the bewitching hour in my mothers mind) and boy did I cop it. Was called for everything even though it was totally innocent and that was my last date till I was allowed to go out with a nice european boy who I married shortly after meeting just to leave home.
Walked out on the marriage at 7 months pregnant much to my mothers disgust. She never did let me forget it either as single mum's were a real no no back in the late 60's.
Lasted just over 2 years living with parents being a mother during the day and working at night, Finally moved out into the big wide world at 21 and boy was it an eye opener.
Amazing what being constantly put down (like you Amber) can do to a persons feeling of self worth.
Then had a marriage that lasted just over 20 years and much as I hate to admit it most of that time I was indeed a doormat. Started to get a little inner strenghth in the latter years compliments of my father and I did eventually leave.
Has taken me a few years to really discover who I am and to have the strength and courage to say what I think and how I feel. I can honestly say that I am now comfortable with who I am and where I'm at so "if" I'm lucky enough to find a partner to continue on the pathway of life then I will be better for my past experiences. I will now be able to ensure that it is in fact a 2 way street and not just a one way one.
Funnily enough I've instilled all of the inner wisdom I had into my children yet didn't have the strength at the time to practice what I preached. Never mind.. I firmly believe that fate deals us our cards as deemed fit so that we learn whatever lessons we need to. Maybe I just took a bit longer to learn but hey I'm here and better for it.
God, who needs a shrink.. we just unload on here and heaven forbid deal with the consequences.
K.. you started the ball rolling with your story about FWB and now it continues today with more of us. Hope I don't end up regretting this.. Oh well..
Just realised that some of you who actually know me will find out a little more about me by reading this as we haven't all had the opportunity to get into the D & M's.
What have I done. Oh well, click before I change my mind. Most of you don't know me anyway and probably never will so what the heck..

Have a good one all... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 9, 2008 1:25 PM

I tend to believe nowadays, after a lot of chats wth older men and numerous teens that quite a few women nowadays are quite predatory and quite a lot of the time it is the women who instigates the sex. I'm not quite sure why casual sex for women is the big thing, but one of the reasons for teens apparently is that they can't think of anything to say and therefore let's have sex., I find it very sad that women are undervaluing themselves, again I believe, and not standing up and saying here I am. I also tend to believe that a friend is a friend and a relationship is just that. A sexual relationship with a friend, again in my opinion would ruin a good friendship as there are so many emotions introduced. Rather like golf for me ruining a good walk. I don't envy the position that guys are in today as it seems no matter what they do they are criticized. The young kids call them Fbuddies, but when they all walk into a social setting together, its fairly obvious there is discomfort all round and usually tears. My male friends are very special to me, we can talk in depth about anything and laugh about anything, each other most of the time but that's what is so special about friendship. If any of us were to pair off with another the friendships would change and we wouldn't be able to converse so easily and therefore miss out on the sheer joy of a great friendship. A very good male friend of mine sent me an sms the other day when I was driving quite a distance to find an address - give me a call if you get lost and I'll come and get you. That's really a good friend.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:43 PM

hi amdoingit .. checked your profile too ......... and you have a great profile ...... good luck in your search

Posted by: kianee at March 9, 2008 12:33 PM

Noname,
I think the name wishfull has been taken, lol.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 9, 2008 12:31 PM

Hello All,
Had a really nice evening last night at a joint 60th Birthday party for some work colleagues. Went to the Barossa, nice food, great company and fun (in a quiet way). Nothing really beats getting together with friends does it?

Wow, it all got a bit "prickly " at times last night, didn't it? Hopefully all is good again in Blogland.
I was raised fairly strictly as far as "morals" were concerned, as well. My mother called me some fairly unsavoury names (one beginning with S***) when I was 18 because I sat in the car with my boyfriend at the time until 3 AM! Some of you may remember if you lived at home as we both did, the car was the only place you could be actually alone together, especially if you had a mother like mine who insisted on sitting up all night and "holding court" (she seemed to think all my boyfriends were secretly lusting after her; funnily enough most of them thought she was great, I was soooo "lucky" to have a mum like that; they had no idea about the things she would say or the names she would call me after they went home!) I was 20 before I did anything to justify some of the the names she called me!!

So consequently I am a little "fragile" in that department; so I can't imagine that a FWB arrangement would work for me, (though one can never say never!). However, for those who can and have a respectful and honest relationship: I say good on you!
I was judged as a young person to be less than worthy and have tried not to inflict that kind of thinking on to others. (mind you, as you all have probably guessed by now; I can be very opinionated!! However, I never intend to be hurtful as I remember too well just how painful that is)

I wonder about the Aunty though, was that really a FWB relationship or was it quite committed? They just realised it wouldn't work if they actually lived together!!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 9, 2008 12:18 PM

Hi Bean, sorry I switched off before your post last night @10.45 pm I have been told that pre-nups can be contested as can will's, the last thing I can do for my kids is to see that they get the last benefit that their mother and I can give them, that seems to be what Pigs do. Also the fact that the companion may not want to leave her house and comfort zone, and have her pension benifits change.

Perth. Could you explain to me why it is only the men who get "their rocks of". This is generally the attitude that turns men off, and I mean big time. I have found that since I have been posting on the blogs that the hit rate on my profile has trebled in number and more importantly so has the kiss rate, I have not responded to most of them till I find the results of the coming week. As to your query about the man signing the pre-nup I certainly hope so it is only fair he should.
Cheers OG.

Posted by: oldergent at March 9, 2008 12:17 PM

Kianee..great post, had to check your profile for the age thing as I thought I was pretty much one of the "oldies". Anyway, you beat me...
By the way... like your profile... Good luck...."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 9, 2008 12:12 PM

It has been extremely interesting to follow comments on this topic.So many clear and well thought through opinions. jenniferhi’s insightful comment of ”There are a lot of very strong personalities here” and “Also a lot of people in this middle-age age group are often new to computers let alone dating” There is also a great diversity of not only age, but also academic status and cultural background which perhaps adds to the diversity and is an explaination why there are such heated debates in this place.
I think I am older than many of you (and more familiar with chasing cows than working a computer) and yet feel as though my life is just beginning, I have the benefit of long hindsight, but the most exciting, I can CHOOSE to participate in this new brave world’s practices or not. How wonderful to have choice. I have tasted FWB, found it was not for me, and moved on. I made an adult choice, and treasure the lessons I learned.It is everybody’s right in this country to make adult choices.
Cheers

Posted by: kianee at March 9, 2008 12:01 PM

genegene...welcome back...and not before time...glad the paint's dry:))...and how good is that show?

Posted by: istj54 at March 9, 2008 11:53 AM

Hmm..I got lost in the football-speak. I was reading FWB and then next thing I know I'm looking at a whole bunch of footie stuff that I know nothing about (not that I know much about FWB either).

Noname7 - just become NN7 - we'll respect you either way. I'm still laughing at the old aunt who popped up the road each night - what a great way to go - security and dinner taken care of and space the next day - isn't that pretty much what the younger generations do anyway - stay some nights and go home and have space? Great arrangement for her.

Well..Sunday - best I go make the most of it. Play nice in the sandpit people....remember...respect.....share....smile!

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 9, 2008 11:46 AM

istadj54 and others from "the gone belly up" Melbourne RSVP mafia.
After 3 weeks of no rpovider,constant computer meltdowns and no dating for well oiver a month I have come to this radical conclusion.

I am the best person I know, the nicest person I have ever been with and am Just wasted on my self.
If for some reason there is a darling woman out there who seriously wants me then let me know otherwise I will just keep painting my walls and watching the paint dry.
Oh , none of my old email addresses work so let me know if you would like the new ones...only women who want a 15 year relationship need apply.

Posted by: genegene at March 9, 2008 11:13 AM

Jennifer @8.53 am.
I think you are right to some extent in your saying that upbringning has a lot to do withour outlook on our current situations.

My upbringing was fairly sheltered actually, and being the eldest l wasn't allowed to do most of the things that my girlfriends were doing at the ages 15 - 18. So l guess that until l separated from my ex l lived my life pretty much the same, however brought my children up with vastly more freedom than l ever had, and they are healthy well adjusted people.

My outlook on life has now changed dramatically and those who have known me for a long time are sometimes bemused by my more outgoing nature.

I for one would rather be the me l am now to the me l was 5 years ago........................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 11:03 AM

It's cool this morning in Perth, the first time for ages and then apparently we are back up to 38 by Wednesday. The weather here has been in the 40s and we are desperate for rain. It's so erratic, with some very hot evenings and the temperature doesn't seem to pitch until about 6p.m. which is uncomfortable. I am wondering whether there really is something with this global warming and climate change because the weather is so totally different from when I arrive in Perth 11 years ago.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 10:03 AM

Jenhi and blueeyes just then: Yes - societal ideas are changing a bit (but less I think between the 70s and now, than between the 50s and 70s.)

But I think it's much more about the age of the protagonists. Teenage romances are usually just practice runs, so celibacy or contraception are crucial.

Then for maybe 10 or 15 years, the age is appropriate for having children, and THOSE relationships need to last for 20 years plus, (and stay fairly amicable) or the children are disadvantaged.

After that, in your middle age the only must-haves are contraception, and mutual delight with one another for a while (better to have loved for a time and lost ....)

Maybe even a second try for what SallyNoosa had the time before, if like 99% of the population, you missed out on it for the previous 20 years. And are still game for that sort of shenanigans - and fit enough.

And then at last, before the attack of the flannelette PJs, just between menopause and impotence comes reward time - IF you're not ageist enough to think that sexy old men are dirty, for not retiring decently to their wire-pulling sheds at 65 (sorry ISTJ - wrong blog).

So I for one don't blame all our old girls who are looking for a partner who still has a hatstand, not a bell rope.

And if that means he has to be younger, so be it. And then if (maybe I should say when) he moves on to a younger partner, be cool - you've had your turn already.

Must go get up in a roof and earn my living. Seeyezall much later.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 10:02 AM

pickles, no need for an apology at all. I found it a fascinating topic and was very intersted to see the thoughts of others - it was the poorly thought out judgements of some which set me off but I'm over it and am moving on :)

Truly a lovely day here in Melb and I'm off to enjoy it.

Cheerio

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 9, 2008 9:59 AM

My last comment on this subject is to say that it is not about "putting up with bad treatment"..it a is a mutually agreed upon relationship..no one is short changed.

It doesnt suit everyone (obviously) but i am sure that for those that have this arrangement it is mutually beneficial. We are all adult enough to work it out for ourselves.

I dont take offence at some of you not agreeing or approving of it..its your interpretation of what it means for the parties. No one has the right to sit in judgement of others.

Posted by: picklessister at March 9, 2008 9:51 AM

Again, FWB can be useful when in the process of separating from a long term partner, where the magic is still there, but it can be seen that there is not the scope for much of a future, and there is still enough love and goodwill to continue a sexual relationship.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 9:40 AM

Thank you Alliane, I rest my case.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 9:39 AM

Without going through lasy nights blogs at lenght, I'm noy sure who had the auntie who went up to her friends place, stayed the night, then went home.

I dont really know where that fits, friends with benefits or relationship? I would imagine it was quite a long term arrangement, and totally monogamous.

I think the people of times past had a better idea how to go about things, no doubt quietly and discreetly, where we quite openly discusss our arrangements some, in a public blog.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 9:36 AM

Friends with benefits...No Way for me unless I am desperate. Please don't freak-out yet, I respect people on their choices, this "biggest misconception". though might also winning, waiting, gaining,..although might look perfect on paper or even in thier jeans, unless they look perfect on you. But looking for that intangible quality were waiting for a relationship to feel what it feels, not other party to compromise is a waste of time. No respect on your behalf...Why to continue along to sacrifice ourselves.

It's better to be alone than lonely in relationship. Why putting-up bad treatment ..when you know it all take for granted..or perhaps they change their mind to be back unto your arms. while others, over relief weight lifted off their shoulder, they got nothing to worry about but only yourself.

Use single time to proved your independent..learning to look after yourself..means when another opportunities next relationship comes along be a self -sufficient person..this are socially , finacially , emotionally. It's better to be your own, not empowered by any special benefits after of anything..it is unhealthy relationship, feels they can't be alone and it's a biggest mistake thinking being "left on the shelf". Makes another life fuller, you never know will be right person next door introduce lying. be Not a doormat...but...ditching...for the sake of it...

Posted by: aliane at March 9, 2008 9:28 AM

Well the can of worms that was FWB is firmly in my bin.
Last time l ever offer up an experience l had that was positive for me. Clearly ,negative seems to work.
One last thing on that......l would rather have him as a friend than some l know.
by Kaz

I, for one, applauded your honesty and openness...please don't forget that it was just one very distant voice who tried to sully your experience...I sometimes correlate the bloggers with staff members and that helps. We've all said many times that each and everyone of us has a right to be heard here and I enjoyed hearing your experience.

My view of FWBs and FBs is that it is great, as stoic said, if both people are there for the same reason, but sometimes one, or other, may have a hidden agenda and want more...iaminperth seems to think this will be the woman every time...not so.....or the sex can become highly addictive/fantastic to both partners and this can set up a whole lot of other problems...nothing to do with lost friends.

Posted by: istj54 at March 9, 2008 9:23 AM

Yes you are right blueeyes. And I guess I am the same in that I didn't have conversations like I have these days. There sure is a lot to get your head around. But for me it is an exciting time in lots of ways in my life. I do look forward to finding that special connection again. And on that journey I am meeting such wonderful people.

I think the difference in ages was glaringly obvious last night between iaminperth and impossiblebean. Upbringing must definately play a major part. Maybe a lot of people cannot shake those values placed on us when we were young. I'd certainly like to think I can. My values have definately changed from what my parents set for me and even those I had for myself maybe even a couple of years ago. We have to move on.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:53 AM

I think Jenni that many of us middle agers have been married for many years (I was for 26) and the dating rules are totally different to what they were when we were much younger. Along with that go different ideas about the male and female roles, as already discussed, and the different notions about what is acceptable and what isn't. While married I didn't mix with many unattached people or have the indepth conversations about morals and behaviour that I do these days. There is a lot to get one's head around.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 8:30 AM

Oops - When I mentioned middle-age there, I was referring to the group I come under.
Don't take offence anyone. I know there is a very wide age range in the bloggers here.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:19 AM

I want to say a bit more about last night.

Impossible Bean - Meant to say last night I think you must have had a fantastic father.
What a wonderful relationship you must have had.

Iaminperth - I believe you were judgemental and I think a lot reading here would definately say that. Your judgements read to me to be totally directed to the woman also. It's that old chestnut isn't it? The notches on the bedpost for the man - yet the woman is seen as cheap, nasty, easy.

For goodness sake move on from that thinking. The type of relationship described by some is totally forward thinking, sensible and of course satisfactory for the parties involved.
Nonames piece at 12.18 sums up how I feel about the way you came across.

As a newcomer to the blog (Not new to rsvp or other blogs though) I can easily see why people are apprehensive about jumping in. There are a lot of very strong personalities here. Please don't judge lurkers or peeps as they are often called. Hopefully one day they may get the courage to jump in when a topic might inspire them.

Also a lot of people in this middle-age age group are often new to computers let alone dating. Just reading profiles you can easily see that. Many, many men simply can't seem to string something decent to say on their profile. So interacting via a blog would simply be out of the question. Of course that doesnt necessarily mean they are not reading all that is written.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 9, 2008 8:15 AM

Good morning all, just caught up on the evening posts and noticed that sport became the new topic.Know minimal on the football codes so will stay out of that one. After 3 hours dancing last night and a 15 km walk ahead of me today I don't think that 'benefits' will be on my mind let alone my body today.Have an interesting day everyone-get out and see it.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 9, 2008 7:53 AM

sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh or the dollies will fly. lol

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 2:24 AM

Mine @ 1.05am about replacing no name with some name: Maybe then we could coin a new phrase "shagged Sally."

Night all.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 1:42 AM

goodnight all

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 1:35 AM

Predictions from "The Roar" website

Dewey’s 2008 Ladder: to the end of minor round

Geelong
Brisbane
Collingwood
St Kilda
Port Adelaide
Hawthorn
West Coast
Fremantle

Kangaroos
Adelaide
Carlton
Essendon
Sydney
Western Bulldogs
Melbourne
Richmond

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 1:34 AM

I like Mark Thompson as a coach.....
As a player he was exemplary on and off field, a fantasic captain and now a premiership coach after a long hard slog at Geelong...There were rumblings a few seasons back that he had to go, l bet they are glad they didn't ditch him and gave him the support he deserved.
As for Chris Judd, there were two other players in the top 3 the year he was drafted, Luke Hodge, Luke Ball as well as Judd, and the other two have showed nowhere near his talent. A total player (in football terms) in my opinion.

Ahhhh footy....................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 1:33 AM

You have given me hope for this season Virgil :)

I'm off to bed!

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 9, 2008 1:28 AM

And as for predictions - given the way Knights talked himself up after getting the job, I reckon he better deliver something better than bottom half finish if he is half as good as he seems to think he is.

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 1:27 AM

My personal view is that Carlton will finish between 5th and 8th, as they now have a failrly star studded team

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 1:26 AM

Sheedy has been linked by some, with the new Southport franchise.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 1:24 AM

Virgil can't you get the Herald Sun at one of the larger newsagents in Adelaide??
Or check out their website and download the article you want. www.heraldsun.com.au
Mind you Mike isn't always correct in his predictions / assumptions either.
He just gets more exposure and is also on tv here a lot......................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 1:23 AM

The SAS guy the Eagles have in charge, must be really good as hie is also to be used as a cororate watcdog for Mark Barnabars company.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 1:22 AM

Yeah Kaz - '93 was the win over Carlton in the Grand Final thanks to the Baby Bombers and Wanganeen taking the Brownlow

Not sure what Sheedy is doing now - I heard on the grapevine that he had enquired at a couple of private schools here in Perth for his kids (one of them being the school my manager at the time sent his kids too) shortly before rumours of a possible special coaching position as Freo but nothing ever came of it - not so far anyway.

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 1:21 AM

SallyNoosa @ 11.57: Yes. Currently-absent Willow and Naughtyfish are our usual distractors from the occasional spats, and also male.

They have the added advantage for me personally of choosing distractor topics that go beyond changing the subject to the weather, or big-business celebrity-cult spectator sport. (My name's Bill H, not Norm CouchRemote.)

But thank you fellers - any distractor is a civilised act.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 1:21 AM

And Carlton Virgil? I'm not much up with the form of the teams but have been in the unenviable position of saying 'this year will be their year' for the last 3 where Carlton are concerned and my belief is beginning to wane........

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 9, 2008 1:20 AM

Virgil, You could probably google the predictions and read them on the internet

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 1:20 AM

I wish Mike Sheahans predictions liftout was in the papers over here, it would be interesting to see where he thinks the Eagles will finish. I think somewhere around 8th.

Crows will most likely finish out of the 8, as will Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond & Brisbane.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 1:17 AM

Very game indeed since he was into it all just as much.

But if the Saints are prepared to keep him in line and let him know that he has no leeway whatsoever and that that sort of behaviour will not be tolerated, then they may get a couple of good seasons out of him.

And a good part of that is club culture

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 1:13 AM

It's such a shame for the young kids who are starting out in this game and for the young kids who looked up to these players. Even when Cousins was pulled out of his car in Northbridge with his shirt off flopping all over the place, people were still screaming about leave Ben alone. The police stuffed it as usual here but apparently he was driving so erratically prior to that which is why they noticed him in the first place. Surely, people have to realize it has not worked the way they have handled the situation and intervention was required.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 1:10 AM

Well the can of worms that was FWB is firmly in my bin.
Last time l ever offer up an experience l had that was positive for me. Clearly ,negative seems to work.
One last thing on that......l would rather have him as a friend than some l know.

Onto football, Sheads, or should l say Sheeds, is doing some broadcasting as well as corporate work, l believe, is that right stoic??
As for Ben Cousins, as with all professional sportspeople and your average Joe, we all know right from wrong, legal from illegal, and they should have got rid of him earlier than they did......He was damaging to football in general and WCE in particular with his inability to act approprately, and flaunted his irresponsibility time and time again.....
WCE put faith where it was not warranted, reciprocated or deserved.

Football as a sport, particularly here in Victoria is revered beyond many things.
When the big men fall, as they do, the forgiving nature of the media, clubs and supporters can be often misguided.
Wayne Carey being a perfect example.
His reputation is now in absolute tatters and his name will forever be tarnished with his out of football hours activities rather than his talent, of which he had in spades.

Glad you enjoyed the game Virgil....
I recall seeing Essendon beat Carlton in the 1993 Grand Final and it was such an experience, of course being an Essendon supporter made it more so as well as having the Brownlow Medallist that year too in Gavin Wanganeen. Or was it the year after??... Nah l think it was '93..Stoic, is that right??.......................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 9, 2008 1:08 AM

I would hope, stoic, that akll the troublemakers have now been cleaned out of the Eagles.

Tonight I saw his co-conspiritor, Michael Gardiner now of St Kilda. They were very game taking him on, as I believe he is every bit as into drugs as Ben, clearly with a similar circle of friends.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 1:07 AM

A fair point Virgil

Judd is past his best (but still streaks ahead of most other players) but I think it is his leadership is what Carlton most wanted.

As you say, time will tell.

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 1:06 AM

Seven @11.42pm: Welcome to the RSVP blogs, where your voice is badly needed.

With that post alone, you have just expanded my universe, and my elderly mind is all ascramble. Soundproof room also required, I guess.

Is it children's books that you write and illustrate?

If you've already had 20 years of whatyousaid, I've got a suggested new RSVP name for you: SallyNoosa. As in Harry ....

And I think you're just greedy, still Twisting Oliver after 20 years of that sort of performance.

Write your name in the Hall of Fame and go out to grass, before some winner-maniac chick has a heart attack, trying to keep up with you.

And your tabloid audience can't wait to hear - what happened so it was only 20 years? If you don't mind the intrusive question.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 9, 2008 1:05 AM

The AFL has concluded its investigation into the Eagles, and is about to investigate all other clubs, It seems they have started already at Adelaide.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 1:03 AM

You got it in one, iaminperth

And yet the club still has the hide to pretend they didn't know anything about it.

A disgraceful outfit all around - the entire club.

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 1:01 AM

I feel a body has physical limits, that is, cartilage etc wears out, Judd has put his body under such stress and strain, much more than the average, I think Judd knows his body has limits, and that to continue to subject it to flights across the country every 2 weeks would put immense strain on body parts that are already showing sigms of stress.

I think he has done the deal with Carlton in an effort to get a bit more longevity out of his body.

For the Eagles to get Josh Kennedy (a previous pick 4) and pick 3, I really feel they got the better part of the deal. I doubt however this will be evident in 08, but I feel it will in 09.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 12:58 AM

That's right too, I forgot that. I think one of them went into cardiac arrest in the casino or something and that's been covered up as well. I find it amazing that a professional club like that allowed this kind of stuff to develop. It seemed nearly every day of the week one of them was in some kind of trouble. Of course the Dockers have had their share also with boozing and fighting but it doesn't seem to be quite so ingrained as the Weagles. I suppose Cousins was allowed to break every rule and do as he wished as long as he won the games and by the time they realised he was totally out of control it was too late.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:56 AM

Judd is nothing short of a true champion. He played for the love of the game and the game is what he was dedicated to.

After his injury, at the end of the season, he was straight off to Melbourne to get it looked it while the rest of the team were off to Vegas boozing and snorting all they could get their hands on.

His dedication to the game is why Judd played so well.

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 12:51 AM

Interesting stuff, but you would have to wonder how Judd played as well as he did at times. I just hope when he comes back here to play the crowd don't go totally stupid. Cousins always seemed to be at the centre of everything that went wrong and there is a lot of talk here that he is a dealer. The little fiasco in Melbourne and the brawls in Subiaco especially at a restaurant known for criminal connections and yet he always trained like a man possessed. You could always see him running with all the monitoring devices strapped on him around Cottesloe Beach, rain hail or shine and keeping up a stirling pace the whole time. It's such a shame and such a waste that someone didn't pull him into line when they should have because they have paid dearly for it.,

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:45 AM

I am willing to bet they are not just stories, iaminperth.

The club knew about it all as far back as when he "collapsed" in Vultures restaurant just after getting the captaincy. The claim was that he was under too much stress (presumably from getting the captaincy at such a young age) and that caused him to collapse. Yeah right.

There was the time when Ken Judge tried to drop Cousins and Gardiner for their off field behaviour (you might remember the famous hurl on the interchange bench) and he was overruled by the board and told he had to play them.

And then in the most sickening display of hypocrisy, the club has the nerve to put on a press conference saying how good they are in having a zero tolerance policy towards alcohol.

I would not despise the club nearly so much if they were honest enough to say "We are a football club and we believe our members and shareholders/sponsors want us to win premierships so we will choose our player squad based on their ability to achieve that goal"

And just to further stick it to any WC fans out there - two days before the announcement that Judd would be leaving, I heard it on good authority that "No way will Judd be there next season" and that Judd had basically said "Get rid of Cousins or get rid of me"

I didn't believe it first but two days later there it came that Judd was leaving.

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 12:38 AM

Yes, and also that is how Dad would have been earning his living as well being his manager. I am certainly not suggesting anything untoward with his dad but I don't think he had the strength to control him with all the adoration he received here. I used to wonder why a guy that was quite good looking and a stunning player never got any endorsements from large companies, but I suppose they must have sussed him out years ago or maybe his father never thought of negotiating deals. Who knows, I think he was totally out of control for a very long time. The next thing will be the results of the inquest with Mainwairing, I think that may grow legs soon as Cousins visited him two times over the weekend prior to his death.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:35 AM

I hadnt really thought about that aspect iaminperth, much easier to pull the wool over dad's eyes than a person with a professional reputation to consider.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 12:30 AM

I always wondered with Ben Cousins whether he would have benefited greatly by having professional management the whole of his career. I believe his father is a very nice person but I don't think he managed him at all well. Some of the stories here, and maybe they are just stories, are quite horrendous about Cousins and some of the other team members behavious especially involving women and drugs. Since the big blow up Cousins now has a professional manager I believe and is keeping a much lower profile and maybe getting the professional help he needs.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:25 AM

However by your own words it's your turn to be judgemental. I was not being judgemental simply stating an opinion as I am entitled to.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:22 AM

I love watching live football 06 was great as both my teams won the Premiership, WCE & Subiaco.

Over the last 3 weeks I have got a lot of enjoyment watching the Crows in the NAB cup. I will watch SANFL games here probably Glenelg and the Eagles (a composite SANFL side).

Nobody has done our great side more harm than Ben Cousins, he is truly an example of what we dont want our children to be like.

In fact this sits well with discussion that was happening when I got home, our childrens generation getting everything too easy, so they dont cope well.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 12:19 AM

not everything runs to plan and yes, sometimes people do get hurt but that's when you learn that it's not for you.

Making mistakes, in life and in business, is how you learn. Not always fun but it's necessary

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 9, 2008 12:15 AM

Virgil, get back to sport pleeeeeease! or all the dollies will get flung out of the prams again !

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:12 AM

To me, FWB seems a bit like a cop out, where people should be giving the normal type relationship a fair go, and working on it, where there are difficulties.

FWB seems like all fun, no responsibility, where someone usually gets hurt.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 12:09 AM

yeah I realised that after !! we're a bit slow here in Queensland

Posted by: noname7 at March 9, 2008 12:08 AM

much to the disappointmeent of pubs all over Melbourne I might add Virgil!

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 9, 2008 12:08 AM

I saw the Eagles and Collingwood at Subi Oval last year and really enjoyed it. I'm not a die hard fan but I do like a good game. It was quite impressive seeing those guys very close up and they worked so hard. The warm ups before the game were so impressive with some excellent kicking and tacking manouvers, very impressive stuff.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:07 AM

The best thing The Eagles and The Crows have going, is the sheer number of teams in Victoria. The AFL Premiership has only been won by a Melbourne team, once in 10 years.

Posted by: virgil at March 9, 2008 12:04 AM

noname7 - Wish I could take credit for it but Virgil is the man who brought up the footy :)

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 12:04 AM

I've had my say, I'm done now. Don't wish to get into a slanging match, it's terribly undignified, notto mention pointless.

Is it really footy season again? Seems like the AFL grand final was only a few weeks ago!

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 9, 2008 12:02 AM

I really think that if women wants to be treated with the decency and respect they deserve then need to behave decently...screwing around, in my humble opinion, is not behaving decently.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 9, 2008 12:01 AM

iaminperth - without going into details, you are making it way more complicated than it actually is.

If it is not for you then don't stress it :)

and impossiblebean, if you have found something that works for you, then don't worry about explaining to others

Posted by: stoic at March 9, 2008 12:01 AM

I find with other blogs I am on there is heaps of comaraderie. And I guess mostly with this site there is too.
For me, just don't like cutting remarks that can hurt someone. We are all on different paths. What works for one is not going to work for another. But hey, don't judge people so harshly.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 8, 2008 11:58 PM

Stoic has provided a typical example of a man, when things start getting bitchy, change the subject & talk about the sport ! LOL

Posted by: noname7 at March 8, 2008 11:57 PM

I think the Weagles are still reeling over all the damning evidence with Cousins and the other trouble makers in the team. It's quite strange at times the people who believe they can absolutely do no wrong and also a terrible shame how they imploded after so much work last year.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:57 PM

FWB

I have only experienced this after a normal relationship faltered, so dont have any experience with someone where there wasnt enough spark for a real relationship.

I have had very short relationships that were all about sex, and very little friendship.

I dont feel this sort of relationship is very stimulating for me, the sex just isnt really satisfying unless there is some sort of mental connection.

I would rather not have a FWB if there was no attraction in the head.

From a purely practical point of view, I would only ever have a sexual relationship with one person at a time, so if I was off bonking someone I didnt really care for, what would I do if someone came along that I did care for?

Or what if I didnt recognise that person, because I was busily bonking someone who I didnt really care for, but was "better than nothing"?

I feel it is always better to err on the side of caution.

Posted by: virgil at March 8, 2008 11:56 PM

Oh come off it Virgil :)

The Buffalo Bills went to the Superbowl four years in a row and lost each time and were rightfully ridiculed for not being able to win it just once.

The West Coast Wankers played in the finals 10 years in a row (as their moronic fans took bizarre pleasure in pointing out) and only won twice. 2 from 10 seems like a pretty piss poor effort in my book :)

And before you say it - I agree totally the Bombers horribly underperformed over the 99-01 seasons. In 99 they were clearly the best side and choked against the Blues in the prelim. They got it together and crushed all opposition in 2000, and choked again in the 2001 Grand Final against Brisbane.

They ended up 1 from 3 when they really should have been 3 from 3, but unlike the WCW fans, I can accept that is not a great record :)

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 11:53 PM

I certainly think you are personalising it. And it's quite obvious the judgements you now place on people on this forum.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 8, 2008 11:53 PM

Why is it every blog i join someone is upsetting other people. Just give your own views and stop judging others we all have our own reasons why we do the things we do. Open your mind iaminperth, your values are one way of looking at things but not the only way. It works for you thats gret. The comment about laying on dangerous ground was really yuk!!!

Posted by: noname7 at March 8, 2008 11:53 PM

Thanks Jenhi.

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 11:49 PM

Just putting my view forward that;s all and I didn't personalise it. Just have a look thru previous blogs.

Go the Bombers - I wish Sheads was still there! Does anyone know what he is doing now.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:48 PM

Iaminperth -didn't you write around 7.30 that we should not be criticising another person?
I think you are being rather judgemental and overbearing in your postings on this topic.
I'm totally with you ImpossibleBean and the others in support.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 8, 2008 11:47 PM

Iaminperth -didn't you write around 7.30 that we should not be criticising another person?
I think you are being rather judgemental and overbearing in your postings on this topic.
I'm totally with you ImpossibleBean and the others in support.

Posted by: jenniferhi at March 8, 2008 11:46 PM

I'm not treading on dangerous ground as you were the one who raised the issue of your parents not me. Also now your bonk friend has gone to a 'select few'. I think you are treading on far more dangerous ground than me, or rather laying on it.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:46 PM

It is interesting to see stoic and iaminperth here together, with something in common preferring poor old bombers to the Wonderful West Coast Eagles ( arguably the best team in the AFL over the last 20 years, given number of times played in Finals, number of Grand Finals played in, and number of Premierships.

I saw my second team, the pride of South Australia, go down by 5 points in the Mickey Mouse cup tonight, to sit there and watch another team presented with medals must be woorh at least 8 premiership points.

Even if it is only a win in Victoria, over the Saints in the main season.

Temperature was a constant 34c after the sun went down.

Posted by: virgil at March 8, 2008 11:42 PM

No flannelette pjs, dont own any. Want to come back to conciousness up side down wondering where i am, clothes lost, covers half way across room, knees covered in carpet burn whole body aching pash rash all over, covered in hickys wondering what day it is. Not interested in anything less. Its not my back I want warm. Not prepared to then see that partner going for someone else and calling me his "friend" Thats just me! I know its possible

Posted by: noname7 at March 8, 2008 11:42 PM

Oh and it wasn't all and sundry iaminperth - it was a select few. Not judging?! My ar*e you aren't!

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 11:41 PM

iaminperth - you are treading on dangerous ground.
My dad knew about my friends, as I said before i had/have an honest relationship with my parents. He valued my honesty. When I broke up with the dill I was living with forr 2 years he told me the best way to get over someone was to get under someone. I thought that was hilarious - still do, I also appreciate that he saw me as an adult and not a 3 year old.

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 11:39 PM

Dear Noname, Please change your name, it doesn't suit you. There was a very good song years ago about riding in the desert on a horse with noname, it was a bit sad. Change it to something good, especially if you live in Noosa.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:38 PM

I think you are supposed to be 'friends' and then you shag them because you want benefits, but that's not a relationship it's just a fill in bonk until someone better comes along, or maybe you couldl still go on shagging your friend when someone else comes along. So, do you shag your friend until you decide to shag your new guy, do you tell your friend, can't do you tomorrow, cos I'm going to shag the new guy or maybe you can be the am friend and he can be the pm friend, because one;'s for benefit and the other is.......what! Really, get real.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:34 PM

hey iaminperth i think the shagging is the benefits

Posted by: noname7 at March 8, 2008 11:32 PM

Seven @ 11.07: I'm with you gal - it's got to be the whole let-go, or keep your flannelette 'jamas on.

Preferably with a nice platonic friend in the other side of the bed in his F.PJays too, to warm your back with his.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 8, 2008 11:31 PM

I dont know where you all meet all these men !! There are none in Noosa

Posted by: noname7 at March 8, 2008 11:29 PM

You're the only one who can judge your own 'specialness' and I'm not telling you anything, but I wonder if you told your dad you were shagging all and sundry because you wanted benefits, would you still feel so special.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:29 PM

As for disclosing any FWB arrangements with future partners, am I the only one who thinks it is totally none of their business what your arrangements were before they came on the scene?

I have never, and would never, ask a partner if she ever had any FWB arrangements with some of her friends or how many she had slept with before I was there. Absolutely none of my business.

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 11:29 PM

and if you meet someone really nice and introduce your friend, oh he's the casual bonk I was into before you came along. Really makes you look special !!

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:15 PM
Especially if you can't remember if he was mr Monday, mr Tuesday mr Wednesday mr thursday mr friday or mister all weekend long

Posted by: abckenny at March 8, 2008 11:23 PM

I've always been told I'm special, my parents told me all the time when i was young and my dad, up until his death, thought I was fabulous. If share the FWB detaisl with the new man in my life and he deems me unworthy or his affection or tarnished goods then frankly I'll be happy to seee the back of him. What's good for the goose etc etc. The world is a different place to what is was 20 years ago, dating has changed. Hell, it had changed in the 2 years I was in a relationship! It's still evolving and that's half the fun

You don't get to stand in judgement of me and my situations iaminperth. Have your opinions by all means but don't tell me my specialness to someone else is tarnished just because i shagged a friend.

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 11:22 PM

Friends with benefits, continued: For me, it has to be in that order. I make the friend. Then when we’re both good and ready, I Make the friend.

So where are we then? Good friends already, and now also bedmates. The rules? Sexual exclusivity, of course, or someone’s a player.

What other extra rules do friends need, to allow for the fact that they now have a sexual dimension to their friendship? In my book, a platonic friend already deserves it all, but you tell me what you think.

And what about when one of you later wants to redeploy their equipment elsewhere? I see that as the first opportunity for a major problem, if you’re both decent people. Whether you’re married or not.

One of my friends (now 75) was divorced after 20 years of a marriage that she loved, every day that it lasted, so that he could from his wheelchair marry another paraplegic, 30 years younger.

She was disgusted with him, especially ten years later when he was dumped, and asked her to take him back. She didn’t, but still feels married to him, and told me that’s why she didn’t make a pass at me last year, when I’d accepted her long-standing invitation to sleep over at her place, because I had a 2-day job over on her side of town.

Another friend had an unformalised marital relationship (with children) that lasted half her life, until she was widowed. It was not at all emotionally rewarding to her, but she hung in there till he died. I admire them both.

I’m reminded of ‘going steady’ when I was 20-ish. We pledged exclusivity, till one of us blotted our copybook inexcusably, and the other dumped us, regretfully or relievedly.

We expected it to last a couple of months if one or both were poor relationship material or the couple was mismatched, and a year to life if not. But absolutely no promise of the longer term, till you got formally engaged. And always the presumption of a sexual dimension, or why bother with that one, rather than keeping searching?

Deep emotional bonding with your sexual partner is a prerequisite for the preservation of many species, including humans in past centuries when infant mortality, disease, famine and predators made contraception counterproductive. So it’s hard-wired into those of us who are any distance from autistic.

My 2002-3 girlfriend recruited me when she was 70 to be her toyboy, and then fell in love with my nature, quite by mistake. I looked on it like going steady when I was single the time before, (but yes Kianee – without the worry of contraception this time around) and very regretfully dumped her when she disgusted me inexcusably one morning. And came back years later for a month twice, to home-nurse her after hip replacements.

So I see friends with benefits as the preferred option for people who are past childbearing age, but not yet looking desperately to entrap a nurse for their old age. Here’s my 2001 take on that in verse – an extract from “Alone and ill and feeling old” from my first book of poetry.

Captured in a hungry chair,
with rug around my knee,
Oh how I wish for couplehood,
so she could cook my tea.

It’s not the years will make you old,
it’s not when hair turns grey.
Old age is all the frails you feel,
while coping with your day.

But till those come, enjoy each crumb
that fate drops in your day.
And if you find a girl who’s kind,
don’t let her get away.

Ring Ring

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 8, 2008 11:21 PM

that's a new way of putting it 'waiting for him to arrive' lol

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:16 PM

I see nothing wrong in two people deciding to roll in the sack with each other as long as both are open and honest.

I turned down that offer because I liked her a lot more than she liked me as it were. I wanted more than friends and she didn't and I did not think that I could pretend I didn't just to be able to sleep with her.

If I didn't want more, then the friends with benefits arrangement would not have made any difference in the greater scheme of things.

If it is not for you, then that is fine as well. You need to be happy with arrangements involving you :)

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 11:15 PM

and if you meet someone really nice and introduce your friend, oh he's the casual bonk I was into before you came along. Really makes you look special !!

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 11:15 PM

Having not had any relationship at all for a very long time (2 years) and being in a very long intense relationship before that (20 years) ,it is interesting to note all these interpretations of relationships. In the old days you were either together or you werent. I never slept with someone halfheartedly it was either on or it was off. But as i said before everyone has to do what is right for them. Personally I wouldnt bother wasting my time or energy on anyone that was looking around for someone else at the same time as shagging me. I cant imagine just 'doing sex' as a physical activity after the intensity of a hot 20 year relationship.I guess it all depends what you are looking for. If you have sex just cos you dont like being alone & enjoy the company, the fwb thing could work well. Myself, it would be impossible for me to go where i want to go physically, without feeling secure in the relationship. I would have to know the guy is totally into me, and I would have to be totally into him.I would rather be single forever than fumble around at some halfassed so called sex just so i didnt have to sleep alone

Posted by: noname7 at March 8, 2008 11:07 PM

Hey let me tell you l was most certainly NOT a doormat in the FWB thing......
it was a mutually accepted and very comfortable arrangement that worked at the time......And let me tell ya l would not have been in it if l did not want to ....
How this comes to be will probably be different in every situation, there may well be some instances where one takes more"advantage" than the other, but to say that its always the guy who pops over to get his rocks off ????
What the????? Am l meant to be some sort of ditzy chicky who hangs around waiting for him to arrive???
A mutual arrangement is just that......
Mutally agreed to in a very open and clear discussion on what both wanted out of it...
which happened to be the same. Clear dialogue and no mixed messages.

The best thing about it is that we are both very good friends to this day, and neither of us would go back to a sexual relationship with each other, but our friendship is highly valued by each of us..........................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 8, 2008 11:07 PM

It's not pitiful iaminperth, it's fun. It's someone you trust and like and have chemistry with. I am still friends with the people I've had these relationships with, I value them as people and trust them implicitly. If it's not for you then that's fine, each to their own.

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 11:03 PM

Stoic, Not trying to portray women as the victim but you have said it yourself....it ruins a good friendship usually. I'm not being judgemental merely realistic, it simply doesn't work. Friendships are magic and to be treasured but if you start using each other for one night stands one or the other is going to get hurt. Nobody said anything about a commitment but rolling in the sack with someone just for the sake of it comes across as a little pittiful to me.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 10:58 PM

no she didn't iaminperth because she is not in the financial situation he is in but she is looked after if the raltionship doesn't work. Herpartner genuinely cares for her also and made sure this was included.

Why do you assume the worst iaminperth?

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 10:53 PM

iaminperth - judgemental much?! Who said the woman was the doormat? It's a mutually agreed situation. Noone said or inferred that any woman was sitting around waiting for a commitment in a FWB relationship. You have to be upfront and honest the whole time and if the person you're having the FWB situation with, is in fact your friend then it shouldn't be an issue to be upfront and honest

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 10:51 PM

iaminperth - it only works if it both agree to it - as in sometimes the woman popping over now and then to get her rocks off.

If two people come to such an agreement then good for them.

If not, well that is for them to sort out.

I turned an offer down once because I didn't think I could keep it on a just friends level. But nice try to play it like it is the poor helpless woman being hard done by all the time.

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 10:51 PM

did the guy have to sign a pre-nup to protect her interests as well ???

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 10:48 PM

I have always found one woman at a time enough to handle, thanks abc and bean.
OG.
It's been a long hard day, nite all

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 10:46 PM

so what are 'friends with benefits'. Now let me see a guy popping in now and then to get his rocks off and you.........ummmm, what's the benefit ??????????? oh gosh, of course, self serving I know he will fall in love with me some day....duh........I love him and will be a doormat for him. I guess I can always clean up, after all I'm a woman, yuk who are these people!!

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 10:45 PM

Also, OG, if this didn't work for your companion you could always look at a pre-nup or the equivalent for a defacto relationship to protect yourself. These documents do exist, I had a friend sign one recently because her partner's ex-wife had tried to take him and his family to the cleaners. She signed without rancour because she's not with him for financial gain and geuinely cares for him, plus she was aware of the issues with the ex and understood why the agreement was needed.

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 10:44 PM

OLD Geezer I think that would be classified as a F without B relationship

Posted by: abckenny at March 8, 2008 10:40 PM

Nope OG, that would make it a relationship - unless you weren't exclusive then it would make it a FWB situation. Does that help?

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 10:37 PM

You can change your name at any time noname...providing you find one that is acceptable and not already taken

Posted by: abckenny at March 8, 2008 10:37 PM

My turn to ask, in the past posts today I said what I wanted in a companion as to her place, my place. I did not mean that with out more than a deep affection, existing and not an immediate plunge into the sexual side of it, would that be classified as a FWB relationship?
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 10:35 PM

we could call you 7?

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 10:34 PM

I wish I hadnt called myself noname now, having a name would seem so much friendlier. I just couldnt think of anything at the time

Posted by: noname7 at March 8, 2008 10:33 PM

I agree noname, a frank discussion must always be had pre or post the benefits. You need to be on the same page or it won't work.

Re: overprotective parenting...my parents were a little protective of my sister and I as we were growing up but they taught us well and trusted our judgement - it helped that we were always honest with them. Knowing that our friends didn't have that with their parents made our house the place to be and they loved that :) Kids have to make mistakes to learn but I understand your concern for your kids and respect it - so much better for them to be loved and cared for and slightly overprotected than not in my opinion.

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 10:27 PM

Kaz,
been off the site for a while, I havent thought of Dutchy for a lot of years. After I took all the photo's the police wanted( this was in the Northern Territory in the mid 50's) I was one of the few with a good enough camera for a coroners report, plus my developing gear. In a strange way that helped me to isolate the shock being directed as to what to take. Then driving back to camp, developing the film etc. After giving it to my mate the cop. I went up to the wet canteen and don't remember much for a few days. we were a pretty stoic lot and accepted that these things happened, I had more friends killed on the road during my time up there but never as a witness to the actual crash. They were there drinking with you one day and you were at their wake a few days later, I dont think we were callous it just seemed the way it was, there was one other incident with a family lost and it involved a 2 year old girl, that was a lot harder to handle, but you handle it,or go under.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 10:22 PM

On the subject of over protecting kids. I am constantly upbraided by my friends I should be having fun myself not picking up my 17 year old son from parties, or from work When he rings to ask me to pick him up they reckon i should say no find yr own way home, despite the fact there is no public transport at all in our area But do you know what? If i said that , then he got in a car with pissed mates and the unthinkable happened i would never ever forgive myself. I think in all situations FWB inclusive the people involved have to make their own rules and standards according to what they know in their own hearts suits them best. If they are confused and unsure, their own minds will guide them into how far they are prepared to go to discover their true feelings thoughts etc If I listened to other people and abandoned my own standards and something went wrong, i would always regret it. Be strong in your own convictions whatever feels ok, just stick 2 it, dont try to change be flexible within your boundaries but be yourself, above all things. This goes for men who dont know what their role in life is, overprotective parents, people in various types of relationships that suit the participants at the time...EVERYONE. Just be yourselves that cant be wrong.

Posted by: noname7 at March 8, 2008 10:18 PM

FWB usually occurs after a few drinks in my experience. If the chemistry's there, it can be loads of fun.

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 8, 2008 10:18 PM

I get where you are coming from tw but you are talking when its not a mutually agreed thing...when one person springs in on the other.

I have had a dear friend of mine make a suggestion of FWB but i told him no it would spoil things for us darl, and there were no problems with that.

My expecatation of FWB is not turning an old friend into a bed buddy but a new friend that you already have a physical relationship with that or connection with but you are both aware won't end up as long term commitment.

This sounds like its getting very complicated?? :)

Posted by: picklessister at March 8, 2008 10:04 PM

Friends with benefits? You asked for the male perspective. Here’s mine.

Probably a minority view, and perhaps not a popular one, because after last week I’ve guessed that I’m one of those widely-disparaged omega males.

So I form friendships with admirable women very easily. And I’m very comfortable about having several going at once. We are glad to meet often and talk at length about whatever interests us both.

About 7 years ago when I was newly retired, deeply depressed and time-rich, I had a friend 30 years younger who’d walk her 8-year-old to school, make a cuppa and phone me. At 2.45pm I’d say “Coral, time to hang up and go get your boy.” A couple of days a week.

My problem? After a year or two of my company, some of these close friends decided they also wanted to take me to bed, to increase the bandwidth of our friendship.

What problem? The problem that we’d become friends because I respected and admired them as intelligent compassionate human beings. But I didn’t fancy them physically. A couple of them I actually found physically repulsive.

So I had to say “Thanks but no thanks.” And Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, so I’d lose a dear friend. After up to 3 years. A real loss.

So I decided to look in RSVP only for new friends that I also fancied enough to be ready to say “Yes please,” if and when they wanted to take it further.

And if she doesn’t, just forget it fellers – it’ll be a lot of hard work to persuade her, and that’s an antagonistic cat-and-mouse/ salesman-and-customer game that I can’t be bothered playing. I’m into congruent goals, not laborious war-of-the-sexes conquests. Even though that’s all that some ‘players’ want.

That was only the preamble for this essay. I’m into a whole lot of fore-talk, before the Big Event.

Best policy – a woman’s most-receptive sex organ is her mind. AND it’s the one she’s most willing to give you completely open access to, early on.

Next chapter soon, once I type it. After I dance alone to Mambo No 5 on the radio – cannot resist that, or Pretty Woman.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 8, 2008 9:35 PM

There are a large number of young people in Australia, who are homeless, or traumatised, with addictions and problems of every type. Some these people experience the most horrific circumstances and diseases, witnessing gruesome scenes and incidences, some with very little help, assistance or counselling. Also there are young refugees in Australia who have witnessed scenes that we could not even imagine. These people surely are also brave by quietly getting on with their lives in the best way that they can cope, just as other generations have done in their time.
OG, not wishing to belittle your horrific experiences, just wanting to say that there is much suffering and bravery in all generations

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 9:34 PM

Stoic..Thank you, I will now come out again..
As to your post of 8.50pm.. Yep and yep again... I'm one of those guilty of wrapping up my young ones and shielding them from a lot of the crap that went on in this world. In hindsight I did go overboard and I'm not afraid to admit it. Think a lot of us that did it hard just didn't want our young ones to have to endure a lot of what we did. In my defence I was nowhere near as protective as a lot of others around me but it certainly has made a difference. I know my oldest is over protective (in my opinion) of his 2 young ones but.. Hey, we all do what we feel is right and we take the consequences. My 3 turned out fine and are all well balanced thank goodness so I am lucky..

Anyway, you're asking.. If the younger one's can't do it.. Who is doing it?? Funny fella.. Read the profile name.. (I wish!!!!) Like you didn't know what you were writing... Haaa... Good one... Cheers... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 8, 2008 9:34 PM

Thanks Wishful and Kaz, but some things I do say for the explicit purpose of stirring the pot and getting keyboards tapping fervently :)

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 9:21 PM

I think the whole FWB thing would depend on the individual. To me it does appeal, for the reasons that K said.

I have not lived long in Sydney, have limited friends, no family support, a sometimes demanding and stressful job...and the thought of a good friend to give me a hug and share things with me from time to time sounds great :)

Posted by: picklessister at March 8, 2008 9:17 PM

Not at all Stoic....you have the right to defend your generation. Always good to see you back bloggin' :)

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 8, 2008 9:06 PM

Stoic, keep the wooden spoon going it is good to see your thoughts after a lonnnggg
absence........not stirring darl, you are just putting your view up for perusal as we all are entitled to do............K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 8, 2008 9:03 PM

Well said wishfulthinker ... doesn't interest me either except for having a partner who is also my best friend.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 8, 2008 8:56 PM

Of course if the young ones today can't do it, I wonder who is doing it?

Or do we agree that every generation since the Dawn of Man has had those who can cope and those who can't?

And if we don't agree, then does not much of the blame for the failings of one generation lay on the previous generation for raising the current generation in such a way?

Have I stirred enough shit yet? :)

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 8:50 PM

Ok OG - see my comment below (didn't refresh before replying to amdoingit)

If you didn't intend it the way I read it, then by all means disregard the initial comment - no harm no foul.

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 8:42 PM

No need to dive for cover, amdoingit :)

If that is how OG meant his comment, then he intended no offence - no harm, no foul, and I have no issue with it

My issue comes with blanket generalisations when there are plenty of young ones out there managing just fine.

And (while it wasn't your comment) there is no greater proponent of personal responsibility than my good self and I do take great offence at being thrown in with those who (and it sure has all hell is not just my generation that has a problem with personal responsibility) do have a problem with it - even generally

You can come out now :)

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 8:40 PM

My apologies. Previous post had bugger all to do with what I was initially going to say. Got off the track well and truly... Please disregard ok.. Well, try to anyway.. Sorry again.. "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 8, 2008 8:33 PM

blueEyes @ 7.57: I wish I had said that. I've certainly thought it from time to time.

Our son 15 and older daughter 13.1/2 bailed their parents up in the kitchen one day and told us:

"You two have always been fair to us. You have given us whatever we wanted, if you could possibly afford it. You have set us an example of kindness, tolerance and long-suffering.

And by doing that, you have failed us. You have totally failed to prepare us for the outside world, which is a savage jungle!"

And they were talking about Australia, not Afghanistan.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 8, 2008 8:32 PM

blueeyes @ 7.47.
Thanks I could not have expressed it better.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 8:32 PM

Come of it stoic @ 7.43.
I personally could not face the prospect of having to face the task of having to go and face the parents of family of the victims and tell them their loved ones were deceased if necessary. I did it twice (once to my own family) and that will do me for a lifetime. give me a break.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 8:29 PM

Blueeyes @8.09pm..that is the exact scenario in which a FWB can be beneficial l was referring to ........
Spark was there, sexual relationship ensued, spark sputtered,but sexual relationship continued, and ended at a mutually acceptable time.......with friendship still going very strong and much more important and satisfying to boot.
And yes, Marcus, it can be respectable also.

Not saying it would work for all, and nor should it, it worked for me and him at the time is all........................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 8, 2008 8:24 PM

Forgot to add that even though we, as females, were expected to be a bit tough we were also still expected to be "ladies"... and.. most of us were.... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 8, 2008 8:23 PM

Stoic, I too took OG's comments to be along the lines that blueeyes described. Not going to rewrite it all but I know even when I was a youngie there was no such thing as stress, etc and sick or no sick we worked and we patched up injuries at home, etc.
I can remember having a sandbag dropped onto my broken arm to put it back into place before plastering it. No such thing as a painkiller or anything back then. Also as a teener had a friend fall through a glass table and slice himself open. Phoned DR (yes we did have phones) and was told to feel carefully around the exposed lung for any bits of glass before using towels to hold skin together and getting him to surgery. It was done without batting an eyelid. Could go on but won't. I was a female and I was expected to be tough enough but back then a man was supposed to be just plain TOUGH and that was all there was to it.
My how times have changed...The younger ones couldn't understand as they've had a more "cushioned" up bringing. Don't come down on me like a ton of bricks if you're young and did it hard.. I'm just generalising ok..
Just did a quick reread and my god did I waffle on.. Oh well, am posting it anyway then I think I'll dive for cover... Cheers.."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 8, 2008 8:21 PM

A fair point blueeyes, and one I am inclined to agree with (the cushioned environment)

But there are 18 and 19 year old men and women in conflict zones all around the world who volunteered, are witnessing horrific things, and yet are handling themselves with distinction and are coping just fine.

While I tend to agree many people today are unprepared for the realities of life, such a broad generalisation is not warranted - at least without clarification

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 8:14 PM

Well going to love you and leave you for a while. Have my dancing shoes on and going out to get up close and personal on the dance floor. Behave gentlemen- opinions all count here. Have my border pass in my handbag and venturing out of the shire again. If you need one, happy to give you the instructions.Heading to the Polish club if anyone wants to join me.Great music, lots of fun. Check back later.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 8:13 PM

Was not referring to FWB comments aunty.
Might add that any FWB I have or have had I feel something emotionally for but not enough to give legs to a relationship. It is the intelligent response to acknowledging physical needs and can be respectable and satisfying.
A bloke can have various women friends; sort of a composite wife, without inflicting himself unnecessarily on one women. And vice versa. Of course.

Blueeyes. Lawn care = homemaking.

deter gent. What when and where were these atrocities? Did you serve in Vietnam?
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 8, 2008 8:11 PM

I think the FWB think is the other way around Pickles. It starts with some stars and fireworks etc then you both realise that maybe you are looking for something different in the terms of the type of relationship ie, short versus long term etc. Then I think that you both tend to think that while no one else is on the scene or until you find someone else then you can continue this relationship as a FWB simply because you do like them as a person.That's how it has been explained to me.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 8:09 PM

amdoingit...I'm with you on this whole FWB thing. If I thought of someone as a friend I don't want to risk losing that for the whole getting into bed thing. FWB to me means you are almost using them (mutually I must add) for satisfaction. I'd rather keep the friend a friend. However, in saying that, isn't a relationship really "friends with benefits" to some degree - if you don't have friendship then you don't have much to build on.

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 8, 2008 8:07 PM

Hi all. Just back from my not bus day-trip (actually next Sat.) and you've had a good day.

Just loved the Boarder Guard interlude - the most fun you can have without a willow! (or JenJen, or TLD of late ...)

And I related personally to the dead child item - when the police took us to see if a teenager in the morgue was ours, and it was - that was bad. Especially for his poor mother - she'd just lost her own mother 3 weeks before. A double whammy that few could cope with.

'Friends with benefits'? I'll have to think about that one, and get back to you.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 8, 2008 8:07 PM

OG if l may ask, how did you cope with the things you did see?
I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on this if you would be able to share them.

I think most people do not understand what you write of, how can they l guess unless they have been through it.

If you would rather not answer, that is fine, and l mean that with much respect..............K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 8, 2008 8:07 PM

Seems like we really have done a full circle and come back to reinvent the wheel. This FWB was alive and kicking some months ago too. My sentiments still haven't changed. Couldn't go there I'm afraid. Have to feel something (emotionally) to jump into bed (or wherever else for that matter) with someone. Would rather remain celebant than covet a friend. Don't think the friendship would last if I did. Just my views and to those of you who can and do, well, wish to god I could but bloody hell I just can't... Damn.... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 8, 2008 8:01 PM

Hmmmm so on the topic of FWB's, do you think you can find that type of friendship here on RSVP??

My experience to date is that if there are no stars*moons*fireworks* flames*rockets etc on the first date then the other person is not interested in a second date??

Makes it a little difficult to cultivate a "friendship" me thinks.

Posted by: picklessister at March 8, 2008 8:00 PM

Marcus, not sure what you are referring to in the post to me......Are you talking about the FWB comment l made earlier??

If you are l think that you may have misinterpreted the comment l made....
So will reiterate, l think that a FWB scenario can be beneficial but only if both parties agree to some fairly commonground rules on what is expected from each, such as talking in an open and honest way on a regular basis of your expectations.
I do not see anything wrong with FWb if that is what someone wants to do, male and female alike have that choice.
Nothing to do with time honored roles and sacrifices........
Anyway hope that clears that up, just my opinion, however if that wasn't what you were referring to let me know and l will try to answer your thoughts / questions on it.. as pleasantly as l possibly can................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 8, 2008 7:59 PM

I didn't take OG 's comment that way Stoic. I thought he meant that they saw atrocities, coped with them and managed to move on without the help of counsellors etc. That sort of help just wasn't there for them. But todays's younger generation would find dealing with that extremely difficult as we are bringing them in a rather cushioned environment for most of them (at least what I see here in Australia). When we were kids and you fell over and badly grazed your knees, you got up, mum usually said you'll be fine and you only got a bandaid if it was really bad. These days at school we hand out ice packs at the drop of a hat, stop them from climbing anything and everything in case they might fall and can't even let them run along the pathways.We blame everyone else for our problems and don't take responsibility. In many ways the younger generation do and will find hardships in life more difficult to cope with. My daughter tells me that many of her 'spoilt' friends are now suffering depression and anorexia because they can't cope with being in the 'real'world now they have left school. My daughter at 19 has already lost one friend to suicide and has another in hospital suffering depression.Go easy on OG here. I would think he has seen things that we ,and hopefully our children ,have never seenwill never see.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 7:57 PM

Thanks istj - but what it comes down to for me is being honest with the other person, and of course, yourself.

Whether it be because your feelings are changing or because you have met someone else, if you cannot be honest with each other then there is going to be nothing but trouble.

And if you can't be honest with the other person, then how strong is the bond of friendship to begin with?

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 7:53 PM

Holy s&^% OG - tell me you didn't just slight every current serving member of the military and every cop and paramedic, not to mention every ordinary bloke who has witnessed something traumatic by suggesting they could not cope as well as you?

Science can learn a lot from something so offensive if you did.

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 7:43 PM

Stoic...excellent insight in to the psyche of the FWB personas...it would be excruciatingly difficult to break off the liaison, if you actually fell for the person, and equally devesatating if you told them and they instantly ended the whatever you would call it...affair. It would take a strong person with a very honest nature...and even stronger one would walk away without telling the other of their feelings.
What is the difference between a FWB and a FB...and what is the usual length of time for these to run their course?

Posted by: istj54 at March 8, 2008 7:31 PM

Marcus, I cannot agree with you more. I believe at the moment that a lot of men are confused as to what their role in life is and where they actually fit in. Some men just go along with flow and become 'bores' in women's eyes, some try to do the blokey conquering thing and they are also 'bores'. None do chores as well as, as often as, whatever as. Do they drive, to be a gentleman, do we drive to be equal. Do they open doors or are they being condescending and who the hell gets in the lift first! This is where I believe we should never be criticising another person. Rather like telling a child what not to do all their life, rather than encouraging them what to do. Me, it's a case of whoever gets home first starts dinner, heavy jobs, they're for him but I'll help. The only way anyone can find out what another person is like is to stop criticizing them and stuffing opinions down their throat. As I said before it's all win/win, if you like a person go with it, what a win, if you don't then leave, another win.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 8, 2008 7:30 PM

Am curious Marcus,
what do you see as being our 'major roles' ?Am just trying to figure out where lawn mowing comes into it (for my own assessment).

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 7:18 PM

Auntykaz.
Before you start with more misandrist bias.
Perhaps part of what is required in this world is a bit more effort on the part of women to understand the difficulties involved in being a man. Your typical 21st century male has to make a lot of sacrifices to even get to the first measuring point on a lot of femmo inspired women's expectations.
Women generally have much more straightforward lives; their major roles are well defined and time honored.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 8, 2008 7:08 PM

As has pretty much been established, friends with benefits works great as long as both parties can "stick to the rules."

And wondering whether or not you can stick to the rules shouldn't be a huge problem so long as you have the courage to tell the other person that your feelings have changed should that happen (and to be honest enough with yourself to know that the arrangement will have to end if they do not feel the same - both for their sake and your own)

Posted by: stoic at March 8, 2008 7:00 PM

Back to the topic on 'friend with benefits" . Is this something more suitable because of our age or because of the year we live in. Is there a generation gap happening here.
It's not something new as my great aunt, who passed away 4 years ago at the age of 87 (an Adelaide woman) had been widowed for many years. But for the last 15 years of her life had a gentleman friend who lived further down her street. At dusk each evening she would go to his house, they would cook dinner together and she would sleep there for the night (as a couple) then go home in the morning . This way they both had their freedom by day yet each other's company and security at night.I thought she was quite a liberated woman, my mum thought she was a 'tart'.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 6:54 PM

Hey OG, hope your roaring out loud was for the right reasons (and I am giggling at this end). I don't know that anyone can ever imagine what it really feels like to be told you have just lost your child-no matter what age they are. Our children are very lucky they live in this country where they are not faced with such tradgedies on a large scale.It sometimes makes being on this site looking for a partner seem less important in the whole scheme of things.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 6:49 PM

Ahh blueeyes, having seen your profile and peeping it again, "it would make my day sprang to mind" it really did give me a "roaring out loud laugh".As to the other, that was pretty hard, but not as hard as having to tell his parents that the greatest abomination that can happen to a parent had happend. My sympathies go to our members of the police forces and medics that have to face this, maybe each working day.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 6:29 PM

auntykaz and blueeyes ... friends with benefits. I have never tried this although it has been offered a few times. I just can't get my head around the idea ... maybe I should be more broadminded but to me sex and love are too intrinsically linked. Also, I think that if I was sexually attracted to a friend then they wouldn't be a friend.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 8, 2008 6:16 PM

Always seem to get lots of vowels at the same time OG so will keep 'askance' in my head. If you were one of those boarder guards,you would have to call it a 'good' day at the office.
Your mention of the sad things you have witnessed was something I only discussed this arvo over a cuppa.These things can de-sensitise us but that does not mean we become insensitive. It teaches us to value the precious things we do have and not take our things or people for granted.This is something that many of the young have not learnt.My own grown up kids often complain how hard it is to work fulltime let alone manage all the other activities we fit in everyday.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 6:14 PM

Firstly Blueyes,
Goodness gracious girl, what if me or Marcus was one of those "Boarder (no sic) guards" LOL

Amber I will have to go to one of your last comments, there was no intention to denegrate you with the comment "as a woman" I took that as a woman's outlook, your choice of persons to quote upon, most men I know within the past 2 generations would look at the men you quoted "askance"
is that a good Scrabble word?
What a lot of the younger generations forget is that us oldies have lived through your generations, and probably have a better understanding than you do of ours.

No Kipling would have no conception of even a female nurse, just the surgeons and the assistants of the day who had the guts to observe the brutality of medical procedures of the day and still help their commrades in distress.

I have had events such as having seen a mate cut in two and the pieces of him joined by the length of his intestines,( and such others) no councillors in those days and none needed we coped each to our own way. Yes it inured us to be hard, maybe insensitive, but we survive, I wonder how many of the young men of today would cope as us old farts did.
With respect, OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 5:55 PM

NO apologies needed Amberlight- i had a giggle over it. I can't remember who says what half the time and have to check before posting too. I don't think I scared him off but his wife cheered for me (their relationship is obviously on a down hill slide and you could have cut the air with a knife).It was fun to find a few people who wanted to have a game because my own kids (grown up) would never play with me as I'm a teacher.
So what are the 'rules' if you are in one of those relationships? One acquaintance says he runs if someone mentions the 'C' word (committment).

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 5:37 PM

Would love to hear some male points of view on this subject

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 5:36 PM

".....wonder whether I could sustain the rules and not let my heart take over."
Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 5:11 PM

I think I would be the same.
I envy those of you who can "stick to the rules"

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 8, 2008 5:26 PM

No way, amberlight, my vocab. might be better, but they are better cheats

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 5:25 PM

Dangerous blueeyes, you may end up in one of "those relationships"

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 5:21 PM

Blueeyes,
I am so sorry!! (by the time you read all of the last few hours comments, it's hard to remember who is doing what!) Congratulations, anyway!! Well done! (surely that person isn't now scared of you?) and kianee maybe you should start taking the kids on at scrabble!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 8, 2008 5:21 PM

If I don't show my border pass they may want to frisk me at the bridges and the airport borders. What a good idea!

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 5:15 PM

OG,
I have (thanks to the virtues of the internet) read "If " by Rudyard Kipling (I can vaguely remember reading it in school)
I have no problems with it in fact I think (other than the gambling bit: a "man's pursuit" in those days) it may well be a good definition of the tougher side of being a man, but is fairly one dimensional. But then in Kipling's day, society was much different, there were major wars which required "toughness" in a man (no room for wimps or de-briefing then: men who had nervous breakdowns after these wars were just left on the scrapheap), the British stiff upper lip was the norm and men certainly didn't do the same things they do today! Could Kipling ever have envisioned a male nurse, for example?
So although you dismissed my pasted comments from eminent men as simply "what you agree with as a woman", I honestly think that in today's world a man needs to be a little more well-rounded in the emotional department!

Marcus,
I have no idea what you are talking about!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 8, 2008 5:12 PM

Love your positive attitude blueeyes.
Ps, your border pass has not been torn up yet , just make sure that you hide it next time that you compete though! :-)

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 5:11 PM

Aunty, have had a few offers of the type of relationship you mention. I can see the benefits as long as it is agreed upon by both parties and have discussed this openly with a number of people my age. It seems that a lot of people who are in their fifties are not ready for a committment and that this seems to be what they want at this stage of their life.Am still trying to get my head around this idea and although think that this could be a possibility, wonder whether I could sustain the rules and not let my heart take over.It reminds me of women who generously offer out of kindness or for financial gains to become surrogate mothers for those unable to bear children.Then when the child is born they are unable to hand it over.
OG, maybe you should cut and paste 'IF' for those of younger generations here whom haven't read it.But then again they can always google it.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 5:11 PM

Kianee, keep reading the blogs and your vocab will increase to a winning list to flog them at scrabble.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 5:03 PM

Blueeyes,
No the GPS schools looked down on such frivoulous wriings, Kipling was my escape and delight and still is to this day.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 5:02 PM

Well done blueeyes, competition will really be hot now !

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 4:58 PM

Yes Virgil,
I worked for a company of a man that is well reported by the other Bill about a gentleman trader from Venice, he was the owner of an amusements and games firm. My duties included putting on the new records and collecting his money ( such was my reputation for honesty) now as a devotee of the classics I did not I suppose pay that much attention to the music of the day and must have picked it up by osmossis, that may be because I had to put the records on at least 300 times and play them to see that they worked. The reason for my shots at you I am afraid. Dont know much about your AFL but hope one of you Rabids dont bite me.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 4:55 PM

Amberlight
I wish I would have won at scrabble :-) I couldn't even beat the kids. I was referring to someone else’s blog, someone who said that they won in scrabble against "One who usually wins"

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 4:54 PM

Hadn't read If' by Kipling for a long time OG. Good poem-did you have to learn it off by heart at schoool?

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 4:50 PM

Amberlight, was Kianee also playing scrabble last night.? Wrong person. Don't like to brag but its not that often I score a win , especially if the person is as serious as this person was. I think I may have had my border pass torn up so I can't play against that person again.
Story on border pass- have a good friend who lives 2 shires away from me. He always pays for the coffee if I travel his way because he says that most 'shire' people don't like to leave their shire. So in fun I made him a border pass so he can drive my way.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 4:46 PM

FWB relationships are, if correctly ruled, beneficial to both.
Guidelines and expectations from both sides should be clearly defined and regularly revisited to ensure that both are equally comfortable with the arrangement.
Having been in one, l found this to be he best way to be able to navigate what could have been a timebomb waiting to explode......
And am still very good friends with him.

Yes it can be done...................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 8, 2008 4:42 PM

udowell,
my greetings and salutations as well, I do not like the word Lurkers also, I often have a peep at the profiles of people as I like to see who is participating, so I refer to them as peepers, as an RSViP I can see the persons who view my profile. I have noticed you used the word Warped, now that is going to attract some interest from a like minded person. Thankyou for joining in and widening the pool, just wished you were a bloke to balance out the mix.
Cheers OG.
S&L2U2 lol

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 4:41 PM

As to picking out whom are "players" per earlier definitions this arvo, one can't always tell from a profile. The one who was offering me 'free' tickets to carlos Santana certainly had a rather straightforward profile and appealing photo (assuming it was his). Anyone could have written his profile for him, so I like to chat ,online or over the phone at least before a fact to face meeting. Just in a few minutes online chatting , the dribble that came out of his mouth didn't match the sensible profile he had put forward. I also noted that for a supposed Australian born man with a degree , his english was structured more like that of a person with an ESL background.
I also think that if the person makes what appears to be deliberate arrangements so you don't get to meet any of their family or friends over a period of time, then you have to wonder what their long term intentions are. Surely if interested in you, then they would proudly introduce you to those who are also important in their lives.
So Amberlight, you don't always know straight away,but on the spot conversation certainly gives you a better idea than emails that one can spend time writing and rewriting.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 4:40 PM

Hello udoowllew, Don't wory about lurking, I am sure most of us "lurked" until we were game enough to post a comment; I know I did!! And we often check out each other's profiles: it's nice to put face to the name (I am about to look at yours now!)
You're much gamer than me, I haven't sent any kisses yet (at least you are brave enough to try and to be rejected; I think I am just a wimp!!) Anyway if you've read any of the past blogs it appears yours is a common experience!

kianee, congratulations on winning the scrabble against the "one who usually wins" it must have been a good feeling!
I agree that people in a "friends with benefits" type relationship are not being used if they have agreed to participate, but I do think that in a new FWB relationship, the potential for one of them to really be a player is very possible!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 8, 2008 4:33 PM

I mss spelt none in a previus post and corrected it.

OG
I was reading your comment on juke boxes and wondered if you would care to elaborate on that.

Posted by: virgil at March 8, 2008 4:30 PM

none

Posted by: virgil at March 8, 2008 4:28 PM

Shit,
This sweetness and light thing is catching.
Marcus @4.14 pm, well said and hopefully peace to you, my sentiments mostly and agree to defend the principal. ROLL, I hope I have not created a monster.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 4:26 PM

In a few minutes, I start preparing for my trip to AAMI stadium to see the Crows play St Kilda in the NAB Cup grand final.

No matter that coaches not involved in the Grand Final call this a Mickey Mouse competition, I see it as valuable experience in the pressure cooker environment of a grand final for the Young Adelaide boys.

Expectations are not high for a premiership in the real stuff, and I feel on cup in the cupboard is better than nome.

Posted by: virgil at March 8, 2008 4:25 PM

Virgil,
As with Willow accepted and offer in the same spirit.
The advice has been mixed and probably yours is the best idea (r ) (lol) If unsure ask, then that has led to a few smarting cheeks. With you in particular I was a bit harsh, I apologise, one of my jobs way back when was working on Juke boxes.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 4:19 PM

Udoo...everyone has the rejection pile thing happening...or the no response one - it's normal. Just hang in there! Welcome to the blogs too. I'm not sure "lurking" is an appropriate term for checking out other blogger's profiles - it is simply a way to put face to words - curiousity is such a better word. If bloggers were "lurkers' for doing that then there would be a fight for first....

Welcome aboard....

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 8, 2008 4:18 PM

welcome to the blogs udowell.

I cannot speak for all here but a guess would be that you are most welcome to look at profiles of fellow bloggers, and this does not constitute lurking.

Lurking is a term drawn from MiRC days of channels, where the list of all people currently in that channel would show on the sidebar. It ws found a few people would sit in the channel listen to all that was said, and never make a contribution.

This was termed "Lurking".

On the RSVP blogs, we would never know who is reading what we write, but anyone that is reading this, and feels a little shy or nervous and yet would like to make their presence known, could just come in and say Hi, and would be most welcome.

Posted by: virgil at March 8, 2008 4:17 PM

deter gent.
No plagiarism or cutting and pasting at this keyboard mate.
Not sure what I've done to inflict another Willow treatise or two on the upload speed.
I followed up from the broadly misunderstood 'Alpha' discussion to try to show wishfulthinker that her idea of what constituted a man was subjective. My comments are not mean't to detract or diminish. The feel good emotive type of bloke broadly characterised by the loquaciously non combatative but still competitive Willow is characterised in that Greek alphabet system as an Omega.
Cheers Marcus

I keep having to remind myself that this is an adult's internet blog not a bloody mutual admiration society. If people pop up and spout what I think is garbage, contentious, incorrect or poorly reasoned what ever I'm at liberty to counter or rebut it.
Amberlight. Thanks for the amusing puffy lips profile concoction I think you sent me.
Haha. MS

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 8, 2008 4:14 PM

Kainee,
No problems no offence, it must be all this sweetness and light making me a bit sensitive, I really must proof read before posting. I touch type and have noticed lately an inclination in my left index finger to misbehave. ( hell now marcus will be onto that) ( but it could be a Judas goat, lol)
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 4:11 PM

Kainee,
No problems no offence, it must be all this sweetness and light making me a bit sensitive, I really must proof read before posting. I touch type and have noticed lately an inclination in my left index finger to misbehave. ( hell now marcus will be onto that) ( but it could be a Judas goat, lol)
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 4:10 PM

OG

I wish also to cease hostilities, a truce, and at the appropriate time, converse in a way that is honouring to both of us.

I note you have an important meeting coming up, and for what it is worth, I offer a bit of advice.

On occasions where I have met women for the first time, wher I felt unsure what to wear, I have asked the woman, whether it is dress up, or not.

This is particularly relevant to me as I live in a beachside suburb, and a coffee meeting can sometimes extend to wading in the ocean, therefore smart shorts being appropriate.

On one occasion, I was told it was to be smart, so no sandals and shorts on that day.

I hope that helped, and it was offered in the spirit of reconciliation and friendship

Posted by: virgil at March 8, 2008 4:08 PM

OG
I was just speaking in general, and had not even registered your “edear” Rather was thinking of my own inadequacy and the post which referred to winning scrabble due to learning new meanings of words in here

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 3:51 PM

Hi to all. New to commenting on the 'blog' but I've been reading the blogs as they are (almost without exception) more interesting and amusing than the local press...visited some profiles to "see" the person that was blogging......apparently that's "lurking"....sorry to anyone whose profile I've visited..no offense intended...for me no success with RSVP....have reviewed and re-worked my profile and photos; summoned up courage and sent "kisses"....if there was a contest for the most "kiss rejections" I think I'd be an Olympic/Commonwealth Games/Local school carnival winner!! Perhaps that could be another topic.....who's got the "PB" (personal best) in number of rejections/no responses.....Good luck to all, keep blogging.

Posted by: udoowllew at March 8, 2008 3:50 PM

Kianee.
I had an idea that the idear was wrong just as I hit the post button, I really must not post so fast, Also If I could spell I would be a whiz at crosswords.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 3:42 PM

Willow,
Accepted and offered in the same spirit.
OG
ps, now get your arse back here please, that is sure to quiten him down.

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 3:33 PM

Amberlight
Blogs like yours are @ 12:36, are what is so good about this site. The opportunity to read other people’s point of view, to broaden ones horizons. (even spelling) I hope that I will always have a mind which is able to consider another’s point of view, and at the same time to retain a personal opinion.
Yes I can understand the scenario of being caught up in a “friends with benefits” relationship and being hurt ……. But neither person in such a relationship is an intentional player
There are many fine men who are in this place, “Real Men”. Many men I know could learn much

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 3:32 PM

Seriously,
The posts I have been reading, have been educational and interesting to me, having only been involved with one woman for 16 years. Virgil gave the best explaination of the situation I was in, and would happily still be in if greed had not entered into the relationship as to her rights to my assets. I do not want a live in relationship as I have often stated. time at my place, time at hers and time apart, mutually agreed, support and expertise in our different fields when needed. Most definately no claim on either ones assets on death.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 3:27 PM

OG, I declare a public truce to match the private one. Perhaps strained with very different opinions but regardless, a truce.

Thankyou for leaving wishful out of it despite your initial feelings. Perhaps the rumblings from earlier in the week will have a useful purpose.

Also for the manner you offered the Kipling alternative to amber. An alternative view proffered with dignity maintained for all.

Willow.

Posted by: willow1059 at March 8, 2008 3:25 PM

Amber and WnW, thank you for excellent contributions and I say that independent of the earlier problems.

Oh, and I do not intend to continue the conversation about men, my post was really more about putting ANY of us into boxes repetitively, not just me.

I often enjoy the issues being raised by Marcus but how about doing it without the ongoing references to people (us).

Enjoy your weekend.

Posted by: willow1059 at March 8, 2008 3:14 PM

amberlight,
All your cutting and pasting is what you agree with as a woman. Dig out Kiplings "If"
that is my idear of a man.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 3:11 PM

Willow,
I was going through the posts and only got as far as yours to Marcus. The sentiments stated by us were between us and for our edification to resolve the matter. I am more than happy with your response and accept your reason not to post any private material. Speaking of material, apart from the jokes you occasionally posted (with credits) I have not seen very much original material from Marcus, even his invectives and crudity aren't original, Cutting and pasting seems to be his forte, though I have to admit the one this morning @ 4.42 was I think his best thought out post ever ( I hope you did not plagarise it Marcus) Then he had to go and spoil it by having a cheap shot at a man who is not here to defend himself, chum just hope he does not come out fighting one day, then you really will not want to get your head above the gutter. Willow end of post to you

Having said that and as I said I may not have responded to wishfull as did Marcus, nor will I respond to her again with all the pithy and probably hurtfull things I have thought of during this day, Ohmmm, damn this sweetness and light thing might be working.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 3:06 PM

kianee, you would be right about reading profiles, I am sure players probably do give themselves away without realising it.
I'm not sure about the "friends with benefits" thing. I've known a few people who have gone into friendships like that and been emotionally devastated. It seems one person always begins to hope for more, while the other person sees the relationship as simply "friends". The person who has unfortunately become emotionally involved is even more devastated as the other person becomes angry with them for trying to change things.
While it may be okay for some people, I think you'd have be really sure about yourself and be aware that the consequences could be the loss of your friendship with that person.
Does anyone really know themselves that well?

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 8, 2008 2:39 PM

Re players:
It seems to me that when a couple live together in a “committed relationship” which has consisted of two or more years, and this relationship breaks up, regardless of the reason, it is most distressing to everyone involved for it becomes a painful, generally convoluted and an expensive process for both parties.
The ending of a dalliance (2+ months of “togetherness”, “friendship plus benefits” or perhaps just “benefits with hopes for other things”) is painful. Through the hurt though, perhaps a realisation that situation could not work out for either party in the long run. and parting of the ways was best. These people are not players, just “testing the water” and it did not work out
But if who ever gets caught out by a player, (an egocentric, sexual/power addict, who consistently and concurrently seeks and scores with different partners) feels sullied, humiliated, raped, disillusioned, sometimes financially cheated and very very foolish, whatever ones gender.
These people are so insidious, so experienced at their game, that the victim is entrapped and superseded before they are aware of what is happening
It is written in their profiles, if only we could read what they say, not interpret, to see an ideal which we are hoping for.

Posted by: kianee at March 8, 2008 2:19 PM

Well said woodnwine. Take care, Willow

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 8, 2008 2:18 PM

Hello willow ... it was good to read your well thought out comments.this afternoon while sitting down for lunch. I think you will always find that there is some butting of heads on a public blog and I urge you to recognise that your friends far outweigh your detractors. I have been attacked, humiliated and abused on the blogs in the past and I have sometimes inadvertedly said things that have offended others. It is hard sometimes to get a point accross without offending someone but it was clear that you were being personally challenged and for what reason or purpose I have no idea.

There is a place in society and the blogs for all types of men and women and we just have to accept that we won't get on with everyone. Willow, I believe I'm much like you in your attitudes and this is not what society always expects from men but hey, it's who we are. Enjoy your weekend mate and I hope to read more of your worthwhile comments again soon.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 8, 2008 2:09 PM

Blueeyes,
Great posts @ 9.31 am & 11.37 am.
I agree with Kaz and amdoingit about the definition of a "player". These are people who are focused on gratifying their own damaged ego "look at me, see how well I score!" (is that what the Top 100 is all about?)
Maybe they don't mean to actually hurt other people, maybe they just have no empathy, maybe it's a form of revenge for all those people who hurt them in their past or perhaps they just don't give a s**t, but for their targets the outcome is the same, unless their intended realises their real game. So how do you know?
So how do you

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 8, 2008 1:46 PM

The men who are messing up their lives, their families, and their world in their quest to feel man enough are not exercising true masculinity, but a grotesque exaggeration of what they think a man is. When we see men overdoing their masculinity, we can assume that they haven’t been raised by men, that they have taken cultural stereotypes literally, and that they are scared they aren’t being manly enough. - Frank Pittman
Attribution: Frank Pittman (20th century), U.S. psychiatrist and family therapist. Man Enough, introduction (1993).

You have a chance to define a new kind of manhood. If you do it well, it will be a manhood in which men do not cheapen themselves and the women around them by the kind of casual, brittle talk that turns women into objects and sex into sport. It will be a manhood in which men see the effects of their gestures and words and most well-intentioned actions. . . . It will be a world where we can love together, laugh together, and work together without fear and without judgment; a world of celebration, not a world of accusation and apology and unexamined assumptions.
- Kent Nerburn
Attribution: Kent Nerburn (20th century), U.S. theologian and author. Letters to My Son, ch. 18 (1994).

“Show me the man you honor, and I will know what kind of man you are, for it shows me what your ideal of manhood is and what kind of man you long to be”
Thomas Carlyle quotes (Scottish Historian and Essayist, leading figure in the Victorian era. 1795-1881)

Just thought I would add some comments from eminent men, so that if you guys wish to continue to discuss the topic of what makes a "Real Man" you had comments from other people to discuss in an intelligent way rather than just focusing on yourselves!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 8, 2008 1:30 PM

Blueeyes, couldn't agree more with the kiss idea. If I remember correctly there was a blog on that topic some time ago. It was done to death but to date no one at rsvp has taken any notice. There's no option to send a kiss reply to someone who sends you one with no message. I take that as a "HI" and usually send a kiss to them, with no message to say hi back as none of the replies are appropriate. Means we go down as not replying to all contacts so what is one to do. Feel like a prize dick sending back a reply that's inappropriate so a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. The options for both sending and replying are well and truly overdue for an overhaul.
As for the ideal man or woman. As you say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and my profile says as much. As the saying goes..One mans trash is another mans treasure and the same applies with people.
Cheers.. "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 8, 2008 12:36 PM

A real man or ideal woman? Beauty is supposed to be in the eyes of the beholder. We all have different likes and dislikes-some like to have the car door opened for them and some would rather do it themselves etc. Some look at the exterior while others prefer so see what is in the inside. If we all thought the same and tried to behave the same it would be a boring world.
Am doing it- I think there needs to be a kiss that says something like- I know we live too far from each other,or there are many things we don't have in common, but this kiss is just to say hi,you look great.We need a reply kiss that says 'thanks,I'm flattered but read my profile again'
I find many don't read carefully-they ask for my photo password which is written there,they live miles away,they want to spend all their free time at the beach (I'm fairskinned,redhead) . I don't wish to put negatives in my profile .

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 11:47 AM

Morning all, to me a player is just someone who's not interested in anything more than simply adding another notch to their belt. Yes I did say their as we have both male and females who are players.
Agree with you blueeyes. Cards need to be placed on the table right at the start so both parties know what the other expects. Also helps if people are honest about what they're looking for in their profiles and also if people read profiles carefully before sending kisses. "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 8, 2008 11:02 AM

Marcus 4:42AM, a valid post and one less judgemental although still not free from it.

There is just one point you miss, namely we all understand the world revolves around competiveness, structures etc. However there is a time and place for these issues to be fought out and there is a expectation is todays society about the manner this is done.

Where you also err in your remote analysis is that if I am so lacking in competitive spirit then I gather the many trophies I have must have self materialised. I know you will say this is self justification, so I wear the tag as is your way in advance. However I do believe given your determination of alpha, beta, gamma I do have the right to provide evidence.

I do respect OG's version of being a man, it suits his era as it did my deceased father. I also respect his attempt to discuss the matter with me in private. I am confident he will also advise you should you seek it that I replied to him with dignity and respect for him as an individual despite my objection and offence to his comments.

My decision to leave the blogs alone until such time the environment is more conducive to my style of humour is not a matter of avoidance, lack of resolve or failure to understand the male psyche.

It is about the right to self determination, expression of speech without rancour, the ability to provide enjoyment to others and the desire that visitors to the blogs including myself have the right to do so without expectation of perhaps well intentioned but poorly executed and derisory comment.

Equally I note OG's recent attempts at a less aggressive tone, perhaps in this OG may in a understated way be ackowledging things may have or should have been done differently. Only OG can answer this.

I have no desire to create conflict with OG in a public forum, I could have continued this in my response to his private email, as I and he have already announced I did not. I view these needs as a futile waste of energy that is better spent on more enjoyable and productive pursuits.

Life cannot always be explained by Harvard theories, psychosocial profiling and studies, interpretations of avoidance strategies or the like. Nor can intellect be discerned by endless quoting or reference to others work whether published or not.

Sometimes it really is a simple as did I (as in all of us) treat this person with respect and empathy. Could I have chosen to be more tolerant. Have I contributed to the development and maintenance of their self-esteem. Have I created an environment inviting to others?

To this end, my interpretation of the RSVP world leads me to form the view that I will contribute where these can serve as a catalyst to the beneficial development of contributors and myself.

The current environment of judgement and endless casting of people into boxes (yes we are people, not things) in my opinion is unhealthy.

I note my contributions were all self made, no quoting other than the odd joke I announced. As stated before this comes at a cost in personal time, the cost has become too great for the reward.

Marcus, you may have difficulty in understanding this but sometimes the hard option IS to walk away. After all, this is how wars and murders are avoided, it is even how in part decades of conflict in Ireland have been largely contained today.

OG, I wish you well and success in trying to walk a more inclusive line. This is not directed at you in any way, we have already had our say.

All I ask is Marcus stops trying to box me, for heavens sake Marcus I have not even posted for a few days. Do I pose such a threat you need to forever prove your superiority by showing how completely you understand me (not), a person you have never met nor had discussion with outside here.

Prove you can do this without invoking my name as an example of your quoted theories. If you are going to rebutt wishful then form your own evidence.

What say you, time to let this go. Or do you now need to come up with phi, delta and epsilon theories from others?

Posted by: willow1059 at March 8, 2008 10:59 AM

Interesting discussion this morning and last evening......

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Elaine tells Jerry that she always faked orgasm with him, and he wanted to have another go to prove that he can satisfy his woman. The term there used was "sex to save the friendship". Funny episode that.....

What is a player....to me its someone who expresses interest, reels you in hook line and sinker then spits you out....put in simple terms.
Once the challenge has been taken its on to fresher fields, greener pastures etc etc.

I think istj put it well on another topic but can't recall exact words.

As for what consists a real man, well what a very subjective and rhetorical question that is.
Kind of like asking what is the ideal woman ....................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 8, 2008 10:41 AM

Either you are up very early Marcus or you hadn't gone to bed at 5am.The cards for the possible direction of any relationship need to be put on the table up front and both parties need to be in agreement for anything to continue.But if one party is looking for a long term relationship yet the other one is holding back and only wants casual etc,then it ain't going to work. It's got nothing to do with labelling anyone as a player- you just both have different needs which are not going to be met. Being included in meeting family members or friends is just a way of showing that you want your new partner in a more full on relationship with the possibility of making it long term.I really am not sure about this term"player". Does it implies someone is not being honest about looking for a serious partner? Or that they are using people for self gratification? I do think that many of us have to talk to and meet many people along the path in order to understand what we want in a partner ourselves and to find that person that we will get along so well with. I don't call that 'playing'.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 9:31 AM

Marcus @4.42
Thank you for your response to wishfull, said with eloquence and a more polite response than I would have afforded her, even though I am now treading the path of sweetness and light. It is apparent that she is holding me responsible for the departure of Willow, but I now know he is more of a man than I gave him credit for originally. Also is quite able to make his mind up and stick with the decissions made.

Wishfull why not spend a stamp on him and find out for yourself, you may even find a connection, who knows? As to you and I ....peace.
Cheers OG
ps now I have to finish my housework and go out.

Posted by: oldergent at March 8, 2008 8:38 AM

Marcus

Do you know where the term, friends with benefits originated?

I have a vague recollection of it some time ago, in an episode of "friends", but I could be wrong.

I'm not sure why you consider it to be a hideous expression, I feel it is a sign of the times, in that the connotation of "casual relationship" is in these days a term that, if not just a little smutty, at least has the take of being not desirable.

Friends seems to be a wholesome sort of state for a man and woman to be in.

The word state could be substituted for relationship, but was not done in this case, because the word relationship comes with such heavy baggage, that it is often avoided like the plague.

Friends with benefits is a sort of "kidding" term to my way of thinking, because once sex is introduced into a friendship, the dynamic always changes, never to return to what it was before.

When couples break up, and are still very good friends, sex is inevitable, as it is so easy to slip back into well established patterns.

Clearly, this is not what the participants had in mind when they split up, to return to all of the parts of the previous relationship.

I personally think it is an excellent phrase, because it doesnt say anything, it doesnt come with its own heavy baggage, such as the word "affair" , "relationship".

The fact the phrase is so difficult to pin down and define, in my mind makes it a very attractive phrase.

Posted by: virgil at March 8, 2008 8:09 AM

blueeyes.
How much responsibility should a man have to take for a woman who has become fixated and emotionally dependant on him?
Or vice versa of course.
I'm sure you know about the hormone oxytocin and its effects on some people.
If a man says to a woman that "I am not interested in anything more than casual dating or ocasional catchups" or the hideous expression "friends with benefits" and she says that is OK and that is what I want too but then starts to behave in a way implying commitment, say by organising family social engagements is it fair to call out the guy as a player?
MS

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 8, 2008 5:00 AM

Earth to wishfulstinker03.
Err, real men come in all shapes sizes and colors but some things that distinguish human males from their sisters are competitiveness, relative aggression (have you been told about testosterone?) and general preference for heirarchical organisation.
Real men often allow natural contests to take place and to be seen out; this allows heirarchies to develop because issues are resolved. I don't necessarily mean seen out in a physically violent way either. Intelligent women understand this and contrast it with their more egalitarian, consensual and horizontal systems. Now, and here, the male principles may seem like throwbacks to harsher times and about 500,000 generations of selection but the tendency is as strong and enjoyable as ever.
Of course manliness is a word and a Willows' Omega type manliness is often attractive to women.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 8, 2008 4:42 AM

Yes, WnW, I did go out - and had a good time. No OG...I'm not fixated with the 13 year old....well maybe not as much as you are on being a "real man". I'm not sure quite how one would describe a real "man", but I know that a "real man" certainly would NOT insult another male's manliness (is that a word...if not...it should be), and a real "man" would come to other's defense. I guess this place is lacking in real "men" specially since Willow has decided to vacate the blogs.

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 8, 2008 3:02 AM

Marcus @6.09pm: Mate, when you are being good, you are GOOD!

youreinperth @ 6.23pm: fart city was last night, and a little more delicate then.

Decoratress @ 12.11am this midnight: Bullseye!

Night all.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 8, 2008 2:59 AM

Blueeyes @4.53pm: Barter is good, with friends as well as lovers.

For years I bartered an 80-minute lawnmow for a baked dinner, use of her washing machine and a bit of mending.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 8, 2008 2:54 AM

Bring your glamour-photo props to a date?

Loved that one - it so totally defeats the whole idea of my proposed glamour photo of each woman on RSVP.

I think I should recap more clearly what I was trying to say in my original post @ 7.39pm on the 6th.

I planned that post as the first of a series, each covering a step where we have the choice to project either a real image of ourself, or a phoney one. Next topic was planned to be the words in your profile, and so on.

I proposed a minimum of 3 photos for women:

* a close-up of head and neck (Not cleavage, Stirboy!) in everyday walking-out-the-door makeup and hairstyle - wysiwyg.

* a whole-body shot, to show if the woman is tall and thin (not for me, thanks), short and rotund, or just how far in between.

I suggested this need not go below the knees, to remind girls not to hide too far away from the camera. And third:

* a glamour shot, to show just how much better than usual you could look, IF you ever went to that much trouble. I suggested perhaps even a glamour-photographer shot, for several reasons:

1) To try to get women with "I'm ugly" self-images to undergo the adventure/pampering/travail of a beauty shoot just once in their lives, so as to produce a picture of themself as someone looking not too bad at all, eh? Self-affirming or what?

2) For all you blogfemmes with the hangup that triggers you to shout out very loud "I'm going to look as casual/windswept/thicket-eyebrowed/unruly-haired as I want, whereever I want, and whenever I want, and if anyone thinks that's not good enough for them, they can go jump! Now!!"

You call that particular hangup 'self-esteem', and I'd believe you, if you didn't shout.

But if you shout, I suspect poor self-esteem and a refusal to compete, in case you didn't win (ie. "Fear of Failure"), all hiding behind all that bluster. Tell me (quietly) if I'm wrong about that.

...............................................................

I saw that 3-shot portfolio as an adequate visual representation to put in your profile, to allow the picture-it to classify you as visually kiss-worthy or not, before they got into the fine print if the answer was yes, or called "Next!" without reading it, if the photos failed to appeal.

Beautiful women would be expected to post glamour shots that were more natural and less fiddled than their plainer sisters. Drop-dead gorgeous is pretty enough, without any help from the beauty industry at all, except good lighting when the photo was taken.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 8, 2008 2:47 AM

Good advice Woodwine on players versus genuine. I agree that if they are willing to invite you along to a gathering that involves their friends and /or family then they are interested in you as a person. I like to see how they interact with others because that can give a better indication of their usual behaviour. If you have to be fitted in like a dentist appointment on their calendar , particularly between their family activities, especially in the case of us slightly older daters whose kids are grown up, then they are not that interested in having a more serious relationship with you. This is what I look for after a few dates.
Thanks for the new vocab that I have been picking up on here. Won at a friendly game of scrabble tonight against one particular person who takes it seriously and apparently rarely loses.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 8, 2008 12:16 AM

I think...

... it's about hiding or revealing the Real Uncensored You (farting being Karina's stunningly attractive example of Being Yourself) .. isn't it?

... when you Stop Pretending (if you ARE pretending..)
... when you drop The Act (if there IS an act..)
... or whether you are openly the Real You from the start..

At least, that's how I read it.

Posted by: decoratress at March 8, 2008 12:11 AM

I agree abckenny, have absolutely no idea

Posted by: kittenheelsxx at March 7, 2008 10:57 PM

abckenny - thank you but the topic is bizarre to say the least.

Posted by: kittenheelsxx at March 7, 2008 10:00 PM
Not sure who Karina is but possibly she/he is a 13 year old obsessed with farting
We all know it happens but really......WTF does it have to do with dating

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 10:24 PM

Neuroticfish...welcome to the blog..same as me...a matters of one week absentees...I think I'll better change my blogs name to ..NeuroticMilkFish...haha!

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 10:09 PM

OG....at millennium era, nothing to wonder about...I assumed Shakespeare's will write...The Dating Games at 21st century...

Thanks Goodness...he preserved his Legacy at 15th century....

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 10:04 PM

abckenny - thank you but the topic is bizarre to say the least.

Posted by: kittenheelsxx at March 7, 2008 10:00 PM

Alia, a good thought I wonder what he would write about if he lived in this day and age.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 9:39 PM

ABCKenny....Sometimes Breath-in, Sometimes Breath-out...sometimes vanished without a trace, Games is not over yet....my two feet free-standing on the ground..waiting someone's got courage to land on top of my head and will be my crown...

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 8:44 PM

Does it really make any difference whether you are "put upon" for sex by someone you meet here or at another locale, say the library, restaurant or bar??
By that, l mean meeting people on the internet is simply another way of meeting...
You can be introduced to someone in a variety of settings, they come across as being quite pleasant, but their real motive / modus operandi is hidden......
Offputting most definitely but not the exclusive realm of internetting....

And l have to say that surely it is not just men that operate that way..............K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 7, 2008 8:40 PM

Going out for a drink now ... have a good Friday night folks.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 8:30 PM

Welcome back to the rsvp chat room kitten.The names may change but the games remain the same.How often does anybody stick to the topic anyway?

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 8:26 PM

OG...can you bring back the time-machine to adjust in present time...feels better.....I won't hesitate to look forward....happy to see people smile..as of me..I can adjust til William Shakespeare's era...loves his Romeo & Juliet love stories.....

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 8:23 PM

Hi all, I have just come back from a few days being busy and looked at the topic at hand.

What the?

Posted by: kittenheelsxx at March 7, 2008 8:21 PM

wishfulthinker ... thought you would be out tonight ... are you still not well?

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 8:19 PM

now I have things to do to, catch you later.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 8:18 PM

Thanks Alia, nice to see you back, now the new me and your good self can spread sweetness and life, for one so young you have a very good head on your shoulders (pretty too). Looking forward to your posts.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 8:16 PM

OG...as it's says ...the more get older...the wiser we get better...see through beneath is where shines for it....

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 8:11 PM

Wishfull, you seem to have a hangup with my granddaughter, but I may take your advise she has a very good dress sense for one so young, see sweetness and light works OM OM.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 7:57 PM

The bloggers have often said to me that the world has change, definately so, us older men (those of us that have been involved with only one woman for yonks) are so unsure of procedure and aprehensive of making a faux pas, that as much as I hate to admit it Marcus has got it right. I would not be offended or insulted if the lady took the lead as to the pace of the meeting, unlike all the young bulls wanting to go down and catch the herd, just one would do me. As long as she is the right one for a long time. Well as long as an old has got.

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 7:54 PM

OG...forget the present/flowers on a first date - it's overpowering. I'd not choose my outfit until she has picked a place, you may be well overdressed for the occasion if it's somewhere casual. Hey...if all else fails...ask the 13 year old granddaughter...I'm sure she could help you select something as she is so intune with adult daters....

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 7, 2008 7:53 PM

Thanks guys, Marcus i think thats quite a good idea to set a time and place if they are coming across keen..strike while the irons hot..then i will know if they are genuine or not.

Oh and Marcus, thanks for sending all the bloggers and lurkers to check out my profile..most action i've had in months :)

Posted by: picklessister at March 7, 2008 7:40 PM

Where is Finding Nemo?....woe..win..chew...I will swallow !...Spade black Jack the highest Ace Card....

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 7:35 PM

Pickles.
If you feel like meeting someone a second and third time I suggest you pre arrange with yourself to have something in mind to suggest, to make it as definite as possible.
Say I'm free next whenever; within a week, it would be good to catch up then; I'm going here would you like to come? It starts at 8.00. You have some sort of certainty then. Leaving it open ended is more likely to result in a delayed negative and the waiting for a response is anxiety provoking.
Don't worry, he won't think you are a wonton hussy he will find your positive attitude affirming.
Many blokes might imagine they would like a shag fest but its just conqueror feeling. If the sex you have is satisfying and intimate(intercourse does not always mean intimacy)
and sensual and if he wants to stay or askes you to stay the night perhaps you are onto something.

Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 7:33 PM

picklesister ... I wish I had the answer, maybe wait a bit longer until you get to know them better? This can be hard if you really seem to hit it off but it's what I'll be trying to do. Maybe meet some of their family and friends first that way they may be more likely to be genuinely wanting to spend more time with you. A player probably won't want to introduce everyone to their family.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 7:28 PM

Marcus.
I notice it is only after I have sworn to take the path to sweetness and light, (after mauling blokes that probably didn't warrant it as much as you) that you now poke you ugly head up from behind cover. You did not come back before. That sleaze on NTUA makes you look like a teddy bear, and a real man does not fight teddy bears. I would be much more inclined to duel the sleaze at 50 paces if you get my drift.
Cheers to you too. OG
PS detergent would clean you up too, lol

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 7:22 PM

WnW..how am i meant to tell if they are just after a shag fest or looking for a long term?? Even if you ask straight out and they say long term..and you seem to hit it off with promises of catching up again..then there is the silence?? I end up confused..

Marcus for what its worth, i understood your comment re paying the bill..a nice gesture..so i dont think it was a mars/venus thing.

Posted by: picklessister at March 7, 2008 7:20 PM

PickleSister.
Post a full body shot of yourself.
Your profile needs some certainty about your physical appearance.
The blurb all makes sense and is reasonable.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 7:16 PM

picklesister .... I'm still here so what do you reckon?

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 7:13 PM

blueeyes
FFS.
I have never had a date disappear anywhere when bill time arrived. I think the nearest and worst thing has been the odd lass who has rounded in her favor when we we had agreed to go dutch.That is from a fair sample too, hundreds of dates.
I'm not a tightarse at all anyway. I have a good discretionary income and am more interested in the sentiment indicated rather than a few bucks.

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 7:10 PM

I agree WnW but i don't seem to get it right very often...need to sharpen my skills.

I realise that it can take a few dates to work out whether you click or not but i dont want to be a serial casual dater.

Got any pointers??

Posted by: picklessister at March 7, 2008 7:05 PM

Maybe Marcus' comment was a Mars /Venus thing where we read into it differently according to our gender.Will leave you guys for a few hours to discuss (kindly I hope) whatever takes your fancy tonight. Am off for a hot date! Not really- a scrabble match between a few friends. I'll try and remember some of the new vocab I have been exposed to here on the blogs.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 7:02 PM

picklesister ... I think the thing is that we need to be able to judge as early on as possible if we are after the same thing the other person is after. Some are on here to hopefully get into a relationship, others are not.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 7:00 PM

Karina,

All this occurred in rapid dating...I pick you or You pick me...let's go for a walks...Will we be part as one or farting apart? Do I have time to visualized my intellectualized Philosophies or do we need to Hypnotherapy to find Mr. Right or Mr. Wrong...As my ancestors said..It's better to be Single than to be Sorry !...While others to cling-on, a matters of needy. Can you blamed us to make Sin or Insane....well, well, some people to go forward insanity as their choices makes me happy begging...some sort of "Basic Instinct"..Win or Loss...place your bet ? ..Come-on, do you think this is inappropriate?...this images close-up to follows, confused or defused setting.

Don't you think first date dating created stories visualized human real nature? Of course Not !!...Rules number one...please impress me my dear, then next will fix later on!!....The energy bet's as it flows in my own accord, dazzle,,,frazzle...dance while music at play...Anyway, Whatever I lost, as usual,..easy come, easy go !...this is common Motto in dating Games... The younger we are, are more play in tricky treats...whilst the oldest we are, picked prime-time available, of course we can't denied this !...match the equivalent..unless makes me immortal under knife of surgeon. or other choices build me a "castle princess of Fears"...still the competition is hottest in Town...But wait, how long we takes to last to fancy others..of course nothing last forever unmatched two individuals.

How many of us complained..we're sick being alone off sometimes of time...Loneliness is the biggest Disease"...When the seasons at play...literately, given my homework to passed my checklist should be greater then lesser percentages....does everyone's applies...NO-way, ours own choices always won...but asking those excitement..how long the music play and dance?...The " Sensory Pictures " plays it parts then I takes the chances in my belief in charge something gets better or who care's...telling yourself . why? should go ahead of execution when there's another's RSVP profile to choose from...NO Big Deal...Easy Come..Easy GO...Wacky of course this is dating Games, ...do we have any choices...It's human Heart Instincts wants to be happy unconditionally...for 21st..century Dating Games Exist....

It's matters of Luck ...believed in spending..TIME Quality...
Lucky those choose LOVE than Needy Images mostly are unsuccessful...

Sometimes aftermath of one's attitudes gets the Messiest Beak-Ups in history or...the sweetest Honey-Bee in history.....Where is Finding Nemo...please come forward and see the differences...loveyah....

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 6:58 PM

blueeyes ... I think marcus was making a nice suggestion ... not being rude to women. If I am out with someone and they go to the toilet, I sometimes take that oportunity to go up and pay. I'm sure they would have offered but I just wanted to do it. I don't believe he was saying women often go to the toilet to avoid paying.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 6:58 PM

I accept that Marcus..but having had the same thing happen to me without "provocation" or "encouragment" it doesnt suprise me...it happens.

And WnW i have heard from many men that they have the same issues with the women. They obviously need to pair up with the randy blokes :)

Perhaps that could be another section on the profile..randiness indicator...how long you have to know them before you a) talk dirty b)swap pictures and c) shag them silly...i will mention it to Karina :)

Posted by: picklessister at March 7, 2008 6:57 PM

The point of my comment Marcus, was more to say 'don't put ALL women ' in the same category. I'm sure there are plenty who go to the bathroom on every date just as much as there are those that do disappear when the bill needs to be paid.Its a bit like when my kids said '"everyone else can watch that TV show " and my reply would always be 'some might be able to do that but not everyone and that includes you".
I won't be taking you to task on that- not in may nature to do so.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 6:55 PM

wishfulthinker ... I would hope not.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 6:55 PM

test..

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 6:54 PM

Really WnW??? Never come across one myself ;)

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 7, 2008 6:52 PM

pricklesister.
You might want to contemplate that there are 2 sides to discuss in ntua experience...

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 6:50 PM

nevertearus .... just to let you know there are women on this site who only seem to be after sex too. It's not just men.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 6:48 PM

nevertearusapart.
Dating is just a euphemism for that other word; the new black. It is pretty important to find out about 'tha't compatability early on I think. Then a relationship has grounds to proceed or not.
A high percentage of RSVP women, including known bloggers are on LavaLife, Adult Friend Finder etc.
It's life in the city for Chameleon girl.
The sort of male behaviour being railed against is the norm just perhaps not articulated because blokes have been taught to play a double game.

I suggest there is more to your story than you are letting on. If he contacts you after you have expressly and verifiably requested he doesn,t then he is over the line.

Cheers MS

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 6:47 PM

NTUA you need to report that guy and have his profile removed, if you haven't already.

Not only was he offensive but now he's taken it to a new level by threatening you.

I don't particularly care what his motives or particular fetishes are (whatever rows your boat sunshine) but when it becomes worrying like that then you should have him shut down. Not just for you but for the next unsuspecting victim he contacts as well.

Posted by: dharma61 at March 7, 2008 6:38 PM

Just block anyone who sends unnacceptable e-mails whether it be thru the RSVP site or your own personal e-mail site. It has to have a name on it if it came thru RSVP and would also have an address thru your personal address. I don't understand why people get bothered with the innapropriate stuff, it happens in all walks of life and we have the option to say No. I have to wonder wheter some women get a little too giggly and friendly at first meet and then wonder why the guy comes on too strong. Maybe take a step back a little and get to know the person better. You can always block contact, say No and leave or simply "f......off you pervert' has worked for me.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 7, 2008 6:36 PM

Marcus to Lynath diary
You haven't even got the guts decency to reveal your profile?Seems that you have learned a little more about blocking unwanted advances during the past month marquis?

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 6:36 PM

NTUA lodge a complaint via the help menu..he will get kicked off and lose his stamps etc...no one has to tolerate threatening emails..take no prisoners!

Hope things get better for you.. :)

Posted by: picklessister at March 7, 2008 6:34 PM

The person who sent me the inappropriate email yesterday has since sent me a threatening message today. I now know he reads the blogs.

To that person . . . I'm assuming you have blocked me, and because of this I cannot respond or even fully read your message. Which is fine by me. We want different things, full stop. As I said in my message to you yesterday, I wish you well and hope you find whatever it is you're looking for. Please do not contact me again. Thank you

For the people who post on this blog, I apologise for having to post this message here.

Marcus, I won't even bother responding to your post fully, let's just say from what you write, it sounds like you and this other person might have some things in common. Each to their own I believe. I was under the impression RSVP is a "dating" site not somewhere to trawl for your next shag, if that's what you want. Nothing wrong with trawling for shags, again each to their own, but there are other websites that cater specifically to that.

:)

Posted by: nevertearusapart at March 7, 2008 6:26 PM

that's why they're called 'old farts'..........sorry about that I'm being pathetic

Posted by: iaminperth at March 7, 2008 6:25 PM

blueeyes.
I wasn't suggesting women are tight at all. It was another sort commentary. amberlight will probably takke me to task for it.
I have had plenty of first meetings shouted by her despite my protestations that I might go up in smoke.
Cheers MS

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 6:24 PM

I very rarely need to visit the loo when on a date. In my experience it is the men who are in and out of the loo, pissing, farting and belching., I don't understand why men are so gassy, their intestines are all the same and apparently males and females pass equal amounts of wind. I think men just like to feel it come out thru their butt cheeks so they push harder!

Posted by: iaminperth at March 7, 2008 6:23 PM

abc.
Speaking from experience?
I have only had verbal jousts with OG here, he hasn't offered to duel me.
As for the other issue of blocking, yes. I have had to block members (and seen the system working) because of the extremely salacious and wanton nature of a couple of their contacts. One woman set up a second profile to attempt to groom and cyber molest me. With almost no encouragement she sent me rude pictures of herself offline as well.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 6:20 PM

I'M older and hopefully wiser now blueeyes , besides that the airport is just over the hill from where I now live.

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 6:20 PM

abc.
Speaking from experience?
I have only had verbal jousts with OG here, he hasn't offered to duel me.
As for the other issue of blocking, yes. I have had to block members (and seen the system working) because of the extremely salacious and wanton nature of a couple of their contacts. One woman set up a second profile to attempt to groom and cyber molest me. With almost no encouragement she sent me rude pictures of herself offline as well.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 6:20 PM

Marcus, please rephrase your comment on all women. We don't all have weak bladders or conveniently disappear when a bill is needing to be paid. I for one offer to pay my share each time but have been blessed in meeting gentlemen (all barr one) who insist in me putting my purse back in my handbag.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 6:15 PM

Are you speaking from experience there Marquis?

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 6:13 PM

Detergent.
Re your upcoming date. Be yourself. don't put her on a pedestal. I think you might have a tendency to do that. She may think you are obsequious. Make the decision and pay the bill, perhaps when she has gone to the dunny. All women will vist the loo at least once during a date, no matter how short.
She will be pleased that you are leading. You can tell her that this femmo stuff might confuse a few of the young blokes but not you. Tell her the desire to prove your providing ability is hardwired from ancestral days on the savannah and all hell will break lose if it is short circuited.
Instead of a rose, a bloke I heard about on here took his divorce papers to a first date to clear up any potential misunderstandings.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 6:09 PM

OK Kenny, you drove 7 hours to mow her lawn. What's a few more then to get you to Sydney. My lawns will need mowing next weekend. Only did the edges this arvo.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 6:07 PM

nevertearusapart.
Naughty fun? Norty bloody fun? Sounds disgusting, people meeting here and then doing consensual things to each other with their clothes off. Should be a capital offence.
Detergent could duel them at dawn in his burgundy dacks and black leather shoes.
I think you will find your suitor has merely blocked you, the subsequent messages from RSVP about his self banishment are blandishments. Sounds like he is having too much fum to leave voluntarily.
Cheers Marquis

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 6:01 PM

An idea Kenny,
maybe we could put some bartering into our profile. Free dinner and good company in exchange for doing lawn edges.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 4:53 PM
I hadn't thought to add lawn mowing to my profile but I do recall mowing a certain ladies lawn in the Blue mountains after having driven 7 hours from Bega earlier that day.Not that I am complaining...the dinner and the company was very enjoyable

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 5:51 PM

Old Geezer..Seeing that this is a blind date or a coffee meet with someone you know very little about I think flowers or gifts are probably inappropriate.It's difficult to give a definitive answer though because some girls just love them and others as some have indicated here would be embarrassed to death.
online dating has changed a lot in the time I have been involved in it to the point where a meeting is no longer a date but much more like a job interview.

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 5:35 PM

Picklesister, on an earlier blog was an excellent story about people finding their special person, for a reason , a season or a llifetime. Some relationships are great even if only short lived and I count those as special. Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
I believe that for every worthwhile woman there are equally as many worthwhile men. We just have to find them. I'm sure both genders have an equal amount of not so genuine people.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 4:58 PM

I think most guys who are interested in sex with the woman of their choice, if they really want it, they dont say they do, just provide the circumstance for the woman to suggest it, make the woman feel valued, and safe.

To speak to a woman, asking personal questions on shaving etc, would indicate to me, the bloke really doesnt want sex, he wants power. Power to make the woman feel "less Than" so he can feel more than.

Strangely enough, from people I have known, some men get the sex they so disgustingly demand. Why would this be?

I dont know, but I might hazard a guess that a woman with low self esteem, might respond positively.

Alternatively, the sort of person who would emply gutter tactics like that would be more than likely to lie about their sexual conquests.

Posted by: virgil at March 7, 2008 4:55 PM

An idea Kenny,
maybe we could put some bartering into our profile. Free dinner and good company in exchange for doing lawn edges.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 4:53 PM

NTUA - sorry darl but thats fairly standard email procedure.

And sorry to all the guys that are genuine and not just after a quick shag..but they are seriously few and far between. And the more a guy says he is honest...the less he i have found them to be!! Apologies for being negative but I think NTUA you need to know you are not alone in being disappointed.

Yes you get disheartened but i keep telling myself you have to be in to win..so i perserve.

I met one lovely guy that i saw for over a year...so i count that has a semi successful relationship...so there are a few gooduns out there.

Posted by: picklessister at March 7, 2008 4:51 PM

Next time your in Sydney Kenny, email me and I'll save the edges for you. Am just having an argument with the little reel of pastic that wants to keep snapping whilst edging.Have an atom electric blade edger which is great on straight lines but can't get in close to corners so now am using the other one that gives me curry.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 4:44 PM

NTUA,
I'm not sure but even without the servers email address I think he could be traced, as I said not sure (I traded the abacus in on this whizz bang thing). My immediate reaction was that closing down before you complained would let him re-establish another persona and subject more woman to the same slime. The thing is his post would stay on your records for evidence. But I have resolved not to offer advice anymore (unless I am positively goaded into it) it is your choice ultimately.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 4:31 PM

blue eyes what a shame you live so far away.Otherwise i'd gladly come around and help you with those lawn edges.

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 4:28 PM

OG thanks for the compliment. I had a fellow turn up with a single rose for me on a first meeting and although I was flattered I was a little embarrassed as we were at a club and I had to carry it with me all evening.
NTUA- I also had an intereting offer recently. Was emailed and chat box opened without a response from me first. Not only was I offered a free ticket to the recent Carlos Santana concert but a lot of extracurricular activities for the finale. In a space of a few minutes chat he had made at least 20 inappropriate comments and/ or suggestions or questions to me all pertaining to sex. I guess if he approaches every lady like that, the we know why he is still looking. And I can add he is very good looking and his profile reads well.
Riversongs 8am post this morning re. props in photos had me imagining rather funny images all day.If we turned up for a first meet dressed as in his photo suggestions and the guys turned up in a mankini ( can't remember whose suggestion that was and no it wasn't mine) I'm not sure who would bolt for the door first.Show respect for yourself and your prospective date by making an effort to present yourself well but don't go overboard and pretend to be what you're not.Have to do the lawn edges now-didn't get any offers for help on this job.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 4:15 PM

eroticfish'nchips - welcome back, hope you enjoyed camping it up. I think the remark you made to me was "suffer" and I was wondering what it referred to. What am I supposed to suffer about?
Loser? ... I personally don't think so and don't recall anyone saying that to me or was that a private comment between you and someone else? Try hard? ... always. Bonus offer? ... I don't think so.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 3:45 PM

OG,

How wonderful to hear that you're excited about you upcoming date, and that you're putting so much thought into it. I'm with the other ladies - the gift is a lovely gesture but not on a first date. As far as who pays, you can certainly offer but "demanding" may be off-putting.

NTUA, as my old Mum used to say, "it takes all sorts to make a world"... unfortunately that includes those whose only purpose is to serve as a horrible example!!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 7, 2008 3:34 PM

Wood and Whine

Sorry about the delay in answering. Several blogs have come and gone in the interim. Says a lot for those who have NO life apart from their computer.

I am back on the “Get a Life Program”- you know, the one where people tear themselves away from their computer and actually DO something. Something that a few more incorrigibles bloggers might consider occasionally.

So what was the question again. Why are you a Loser? I don’t remember calling you a Loser. I think one of the girls, the one you now claim to be in your nesting circle, might have called you another name, but my lips are sealed. Just keep trying hard. That’s it. A Try hard. Try harder. Try even harder still.

(PS. Throw in a bonus offer, like all good marketeers. One free seafood smorgasbord at the Crowne Plaza to everyone who emails you within 48 hours. You will be killed in the rush. There are more freeloaders and bootleggers on this site than you even in your wildest dreams, realise.)

Posted by: neuroticfish at March 7, 2008 3:24 PM

OG @ 307pm

NTUA.
Sorry to hear about that nastiness, there should be a mechanism that can be automatically instituted to catch these perverts The next step logically to expect from this type of filth is to put it into action on the streets, better to catch them before that. My twin brothers were both high in the NSW police before retirement and/or death, they said this is how the dangerous ones start. I would be inclined to report it to RSVP and have his information reported to the Police, here is not much difference to a phone call. Dont let this episode stop your enjoyment. .
OG

Thank you OG. Interestingly, this particular gentleman (not) in fact that's part of his profile name (LOL!!) never gave me his personal email address, only communicated through RSVP, not surprising now!

I probably wouldn't go as far as reporting him to RSVP, unless he continued with the perverted messages, which it seems he won't considering he has since left the site (or perhaps he was booted???) Interesting thought.

Personally I think a lot of these sleazebags could learn a lot from older gents such as yourself.

Posted by: nevertearusapart at March 7, 2008 3:22 PM

amdoingit

Ahhh yeh although it's not good you're having similar problems, it's nice to know I'm not alone in this!!

I agree, there's gotta be some genuine guys out there somewhere??????

Posted by: nevertearusapart at March 7, 2008 3:14 PM

Karina

I absolutely love your references to intestinal gas problems. It reminds me of Little Britain.

It is mainly on a camping trip that these little problems emerge and the ?real? person is revealed. Probably the quickest way to unravel the male who has been acting a part up till then. Women who avoid camping trips like a plague have no idea how utterly useful they are in revealing all, including the fact that both parties have to strip down to bare essentials if they haven?t already done so, with or without lights on.

It is probably also the real reason why on my current expedition into the Antarctic, Madam decided that I was no longer included in her list of priorities, now or in the foreseeable future.

But lets not worry too much about flatulence. In a two man tent (that is all by one lonesome having been totally abandoned by man, woman, bird or beast), the real problem is how to avoid getting up in the middle of the night when nature calls and the ground temperatures outside are MINUS 10 to minus 20. Flatulence knows nothing on the ingenuity involved in solving this problem Why even Ernest Shackelton never left his tent at midnight, so why should you ordinary common or garden variety adventurer.

Posted by: neuroticfish at March 7, 2008 3:08 PM

NTUA.
Sorry to hear about that nastiness, there should be a mechanism that can be automatically instituted to catch these perverts The next step logically to expect from this type of filth is to put it into action on the streets, better to catch them before that. My twin brothers were both high in the NSW police before retirement and/or death, they said this is how the dangerous ones start. I would be inclined to report it to RSVP and have his information reported to the Police, here is not much difference to a phone call. Dont let this episode stop your enjoyment. .
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 3:07 PM

nevertearusapart.. welcome to the real rsvp.. Some of my experiences have been bizzare to say the least. Ok, those of you who are familiar with some of the "meets", etc, can stop chuckling.., I often toy with the idea of just giving it away but you know that old saying.. Never quit, it's when you least expect it, etc, etc. so... Here I still am, even if for just a little longer. There's gotta be some genuine guys out there somewhere doesn't there? Present company (well some of) excluded from that remark..
Just hang in there... and good luck... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 7, 2008 2:55 PM

wnw, are u having the same problem???

Posted by: nevertearusapart at March 7, 2008 2:47 PM

nevertearusapart .... ditto.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 2:39 PM

Hi guys :)

Beautiful day here in Melbourne, well started off pouring with rain and now it's glorious sunshine!! Gotta love Melbourne lol. OG I think it's really sweet you're nervous about meeting this lady and are really putting some thought into your attire for the occasion. Made me smile :) I agree with WNW in that if it's a daytime meeting, perhaps something a little more casual would be the go?? But really, at the end of the day wear something you feel comfortable in. As for flowers or a gift, I think perhaps leave that until the next date? Although when I went on a first date with a man last year he did give me a single red rose which I thought was very sweet and thoughtful, not too over the top.

Guys, I'm a little unsure whether to keep my profile on here. The contact I've had has been, umm how do I put it?? . . disappointing. For example, I sent a kiss to a man several weeks ago, he responded he was interested and looked forward to my email. So I spent the stamp and sent him an email, he responded immediately and sounded interested and interesting, I responded back and then he just disappeared in the "wild blue yonder". Ok, I thought he had either changed his mind and was no longer interested or had met someone else (although I noticed he was in the top 100 and online most days) ... c'est la vie. Anyway, yesterday I get a short message saying Hi and that he was bored at work and thought he'd drop me a "quickie". I was rather surprised but felt rude not responding so wrote back a short note. He responded that he'd been busy have "naughty fun" with several women, that he'd been enjoying having lots of sex, that he LOVES and CRAVES sex and did I as well???? Hmmmm. He then went onto ask me what sort of underwear I wore, and whether I waxed or shaved (u know where) and to please describe it to him!!! What the!!??? I sent him a direct, but polite message back in return. He has since cancelled his membership. Quite bizarre.

I'm really starting to wonder from my experience so far if there really is any men on here (in my age range) that are genuinely seeking something meaningful, and not just a quick shag????? Feeling a bit disheartened . . .

Posted by: nevertearusapart at March 7, 2008 2:33 PM

WnW
Not sure what time, I am not expecting her to contact me before Sunday, I mainly run to darker coloured or colourfull (plain shirts) I will follow the advice given and not take a gift, what is the procedure ? She has suggested coffee, I would normally back when dinosaurs were serving it, demand to pay for it. You begin to wonder if it is all worth it, it was so much simpler and less worry back when. Thanks for the advice WnW.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 2:21 PM

Hi amdoingit ... have a good weekend.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 2:09 PM

OG - if you haven't met this woman yet, I think a gift would be presumptuous and put pressure on the meeting. Save that for the 2nd date, I would think. Are you meeting during the day or at night? The clothes you have described sound more suitable for a night meeting to me. I personally usually go for lighter colours during the day and darker at night ... but that's just me. Good luck.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 2:07 PM

Marcus, you did put a smiley face at the end of your comment so I'm assuming you're doing it with a chuckle and looking for a bite.. You got it ... but... not nice ok... Whack...Slap, etc... Now behave!!!!! "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 7, 2008 2:06 PM

WnW @9.15am.. Good one Michael.. X "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 7, 2008 2:02 PM

iaminperth @12.26.. Touche... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 7, 2008 2:01 PM

Hey Mals, wish I was over there with you. I have great memories.. Keep on enjoying... Catch you when you get back.... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 7, 2008 1:59 PM

OG.. attire sounds fine but I'm with Malsie on the gift.. A nice gesture on your part and I'd accept it as that if I were the lady in question but my preference would be no gift.. It is a dating site and this is just a "meet" BUT should you then later go out on a date..well, maybe... We're all different!!!
Good luck and enjoy....."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 7, 2008 1:56 PM

Thanks Malsie, The generational thing again I suppose it was expected then, it may be expected by the lady nearly the same age, but then "The times they are a changing" best to be safe than sorry.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 1:16 PM

Heck blueeyes, just checked you pic out, it must surely pass Marcus's and TW's specifications. Very well presented. That brings me to another point, I have not seen the pic's of a female blogger on this site that would not be called attractive to downright beautiful, along with a profile to suit any sensible man ( maybe some can be a bit too stroppy for a sensitive fellow like me). Unfortunately the age gap makes it a no choice for either party to contemplate. That then makes me wonder what is wrong with the men in the same age groups. Us senile, angry old men that are past it physically, have a legitimate excuse in our dottage.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 1:11 PM

Having a lovely time here in WA, thanks, VDU - and thanks for inquiring, mate :)

Posted by: malsie at March 7, 2008 1:06 PM

OG, the clothes sound okay to me as most likely appropriate for you. For myself, I would hate someone to turn up with flowers or a gift for a first date. Maybe some women love it, and perhaps a few others will add their comments in that vein. But for me personally it's such an over-the-top gesture that it makes me squirm! Don't know if that helps or not....

Posted by: malsie at March 7, 2008 12:54 PM

Afterthought, and should I wear a raincoat too, just in case she wants to dump some nasties on me for some comments made in the past. LOL.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 12:52 PM

riversong, not "recycled" - just attempting to find someone more appropriate for yourself, as a lot of us are :)

Marcus, are you sure you didn't misinterpret some comment like, "God, the things I have to put up with...." for religious zeal with your former lover?

Posted by: malsie at March 7, 2008 12:48 PM

Ladies,
Could we forget the garbage in the header for a while. I have never been on a blind date before, I have had contact from a lady that has expressed a desire to meet, sometime to be arranged next week. She must be a peeper as to some of the refferences made, notwithstanding that she still wants to meet with me, her profile shows she is within the age group that is acceptable, maybe a little younger than what I would have prefered, how she looks ? and the height is the same, I usually add 2 to 3 inches depending on the shoe heel height, so it will be interesting. I have indicated that she is to designate the time and place (public) of her choice. The rest of her profile and compatability are good. I propose to wear a buisness shirt(no tie) and slacks with leather shoes. My question is what I have just described ok and should I take any sort of small gift or flowers?. The shirt will be deep Burgandy with Charcoal grey slacks, black shoes. I must admit I am getting very nervous. Help please.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 7, 2008 12:47 PM

It's raining here in Perth, first time for ages. It's quite cool today but apparently we are back to 41` again next week. Hasn't been a good summer over here.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 7, 2008 12:28 PM

My point exactly I can dress appropriately and stylishly to cover my fat butt but no-one can dress appropriately and stylishly to cover their dirty stained teeth.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 7, 2008 12:26 PM

"Re the dating game: I think maybe if we cut out the middlemen ("representatives") and stop trying to figure out how we are "supposed" to be, or what we are "supposed" to put in our profile, or how we are "supposed" to behave/say/do, and maybe just be ourselves (with a little lippy and mascara of course!), then maybe we might have a better chance of meeting someone who might actually like us for who we are?"
Posted by: riversong1 at March 7, 2008 7:47 AM

I agree completely! Most women have spent a lifetime being told what they "should" do and often not being able to be their "real" selves.
Then of course, we get onto a site like this and we get the blokes on here who sound like they are shopping for a used car!!
They want photos of 5 different angles just to check out whether the "old girl" has any dents, or make sure the paintwork is not faded, or the suspension isn't saggy or the headlights are still pointing in the right direction!!

Is it any wonder some of us just give up and stay home by the fire with the dog and the cat?!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 7, 2008 11:26 AM

Okay Marcus @ 9:08 AM

"riversong1
Why do you suppose there is so much emphasis on lip coloring in female make up routines?"

I am sure we all know why. Why do you always feel you need to be vulgar?
It's not terribly amusing, just juvenile.

"Iaminperth.
Pretty basic desire to have a healthy hygenic partner. Your good teeth probably perfectly counterweight your fat butt in the attractivity index.. :-}"

Another example of unneccessary rudeness and another childish attempt at humour.
Why do you feel you need to resort to insulting people?

Sometimes your humour is so clever and biting you make us laugh you are so spot on, then suddenly it seems you've reverted back to the toilet humour of a 10 yo!

It's not nice Marcus, and if you are really searching for someone special as we all are, that kind of nasty comment (no matter how funny you think it is) is not going to impress a woman of any age.

(Sorry everyone, but sometimes Marcus just brings out the "parent" in me!!)

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 7, 2008 11:04 AM

For anyone wondering ... reased up hair is very similar to teased up hair (just mis-spelled differently).

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 9:15 AM

"Woodnwine: interesting your earlier comment in the other blog about being put off by the photo, that having asked to see the photo you haven't wanted to follow up as you felt from the photo that the women appeared too "glamorous", or not sufficiently casual - Really, I'm not being facetious, but wonder sometimes if I'm living on a different planet. Is this why I can't find a man ..."
Posted by: hinterlandlover at March 6, 2008 8:37 PM

Hinterlandlover ... this is all very hard to answer as it is so subjective but often you can tell from a photo or series of photos if a person is your style. If I see photos where in every shot the woman is dressed in ball gowns, lots of make up, hair reased up, maybe off to the races or looking like she is dressed for the opera .. then I know she won't be my type nor I hers. If I see photos of her having fun in a casual setting then I'll think we have a better chance of being compatable. Often you read the words and, like you say, it sounds like they appreciate a casual, relaxed life then you see the photos and get a very different view of them. Many men love getting dressed up in suits all the time, but not me .... I see the socialite types and think .... they're not going to like me! This is very hard to describe in a post so I'll leave it at that for now and hope you understand.

I've also seen photos of women holding fish and showing off their motorbikes so it's not just a male thing. I guess it just means that different things appeal to different people ... luckily.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 7, 2008 9:11 AM

riversong1
Why do you suppose there is so much emphasis on lip coloring in female make up routines?

Iaminperth.
Pretty basic desire to have a healthy hygenic partner. Your good teeth probably perfectly counterweight your fat butt in the attractivity index.. :-}

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 9:08 AM

Karina's example of negative behaviour change after a degree of familiarity is not a particularly good one but does raise a point or two. I think it is to be expected that things we perceive as our bad habits or foibles are hidden initially. Things like covert cigarette smoking, from this blokes point of view, fat girls eating like a bird when in your company. I drive faster than some people are comfy with so I tone that down and so on.
We don't want prospects thinking we are ill mannered or socially irresponsible.
I met someone here a few years ago and things looked quite rosy. As a rationalist and atheist I was pleased she shared my perspective on things there. I list them as core and important. After months though things weren't gelling and we had some disputes about core values and perspectives.
It turned out that this person was a fully fledged, signed up God botherer who had felt strongly enough to subvert her own (irrational) beliefs to enjoy my company.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 7, 2008 8:59 AM

As self centred and shallow this may sound I have a problem with teeth, not my own, as I take a lot of care with them, but other peoples. I think a smile is so important but a smile showing yellowing ageing teeth is a real turn off. Whilst I am certainly not advocating everyone race out for expensive whitening treatments to achieve a 'piano key' smile, a little dental hygiene at times would go a long way. Yellow teeth, bits of breakfast stuck in between is a real turn off for me as I start to wonder if the bits that show aren't too clean what must the bits that don't show be like.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 7, 2008 8:41 AM

And do we have to turn up with all the props on our first meeting?

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 8:18 AM

... air-brushed of course! :)

Posted by: riversong1 at March 7, 2008 8:00 AM

Re props - maybe hi-heeled stilletos and bikini, getting out of flashy alpha convertible in cap which is covering one mascara-ed eye, holding a tray of freshly baked home-made chocolate warm cookies.... with a little come hither smile on glossy lips....

Posted by: riversong1 at March 7, 2008 7:58 AM

Morning all. Timewarp- no need- my mother said "ladies never do that".
While we are commenting on ladies photos could I add that there are many men's photos where there faces are hidden under sunnies or the brim of a hat.
What is good for the goose is also good for the gander.
PS I think my photos pass the criteria.Any criticisms -keep to yourself.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 7:48 AM

Missed the nightowls, but up with the early birds. Yep iaminperth and others - agree.

Re the dating game: I think maybe if we cut out the middlemen ("representatives") and stop trying to figure out how we are "supposed" to be, or what we are "supposed" to put in our profile, or how we are "supposed" to behave/say/do, and maybe just be ourselves (with a little lippy and mascara of course!), then maybe we might have a better chance of meeting someone who might actually like us for who we are?

Disclaimer: since I'm back here myself in the recycle trash 'n treasure trove, who am I to give advice? Hasn't quite worked for me yet (tho still hopeful). ;)

Posted by: riversong1 at March 7, 2008 7:47 AM

abckenny @ 2.23am: Thanks for the support, mate You beat me replying to that point, while I was still 2-fingering mine. (Quiet, Marcus!)

Any more news of the NSW diamond Coast bloggermeet? I posted on it in the last blog on I think Fri and Monday nights, to ask.

Past snore time. Seeyez.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 7, 2008 3:40 AM

HonestlyFedUp @ 1.30am: I love you too.

And I was delighted when you finally got real in this post, named specific names and criticised specific statements. Good stuff, worth trying to refute. So I'll have a go, in brackets:

"So timewarp1 at 7.39pm specifies a condition for him to send a Virtual Kiss, are three photos of women:

a glamour shot, (which all the girls have already pooh-poohed, if you were reading - they never EVER want to have to put on or remove the photographic model's daily stock-in-trade. Not once in their life, thank you very much!)

a lower torso perve "from the knees up", (I said this to prevent the shyer ones from being photographed from 30 paces, where the figure is purposely too small to see how WIDE she is. It was Marcus who asked for the perve-worthy details, not me, mate. Wrong man in your sights.

I just want to be able to form a second opinion as to what actual size she is, irrespective of her self-classification. Anything from about size 14 to 18 or 20 is a close enough match for my own size, and I'm looking for near my match.)

an upper torso "shoulders" shot -breasts we call them now in this and last century, (I wasn't asking for breasts, mate - quite the reverse, in fact. If it only comes down nearly to the armpits, which is what I meant, it lets the face be bigger, so you can see into it better.)

and a head with makeup and hairstyle, no less. (not just any makeup and hairstyle, son - the ones she chooses for zooming out the door when she's NOT tarting up for a date, visit to opera etc. What you'd expect to see, nearly always, in the long term.)

But he has no interest in a woman having slim ankles, as he already has them himself as he says,

>"Feet are just feet, and though slim ankles are elegant, I can live without them on her, because I already have them on me."

Why not go a step further and say he has no interest in his partner having feet too? (Hang on sonny - you're getting a bit carried away here.)

I suppose he may think even if it is in the primordial part of the brain, at least a footless woman couldn't escape from him. (It's the footloose ones you have to worry about escaping from you, mate. The rest will stay IF you're nice to them, but I guess that's outside your experience.)

Hmmm...maybe dinosaurs from another era don't realise that a lot of today's women are footloose and fancy free (let's get back a bit closer to reality - forget the dinosaurs, son, although I know how much they appeal to really young boys. How about neanderthals instead? You know - less-evolved mammals.)

and have a right to choose how they present themselves (Never said they didn't - just letting them know what would help me to know more about their shape, their looks and their level of motivation to market themselves visually in a competitive market where the buyers are very predominently visually-focussed.)

and whether or not they are going to accept a male's approach? (They don't get to make that decision, son, till after they have posted a satisfactory set of photos in their Profile. And I was only suggesting what they might like to do, to make it more likely that they would get as far as that position of power.)

I wonder too, if any of the prehistoric males who demand different photos of a woman's anatomy before deigning to send a Virtual Kiss or contact, would mind providing a pic taken within the last few months, of themselves in a mankini? (This is a nice red herring, isn't it, friends? I wonder he didn't suggest the full Borat. The lengths some people will go to, just to pick a fight ....)

After all, if we're all to descend to the level of purely visual, I would want to at least have some indication of my prospective partner's physical attributes and possible capabilities. Does size matter? You bet. (I was taught different, son: "It ain't what yer got, it's the way like yer use it.")

Could I also request a shot of my prospective male partner's teeth before I deigned to reply to his Virtual Kiss? (This is a hetero site I believe, Mrs Doubtfire.)

I'm still finding it difficult to give any credence to this timewarp1's particular post. (Me too - it was designed as a bit of a stir, actually, and had the desired effect.

Especially the idea that men are so visual and so shallow that every woman needs to REPRESENT herself at Profile stage as having the motivation to look her very best, at least once in her life.)

Oh, I've got it. This character is not a real person, right? (This is where you really blew your cover, Tootsie. An insult is also a self-description, and before I checked your profile, SamanthaBrit, I knew you were another alias puppet based around Newcastle. Keep trying, mate.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 7, 2008 3:25 AM

Actually, abckenny, if you are prepared to post a picture of yourself in a mankini, taken within a week from today....

...I would reveal my profile.

Fair enough?

Posted by: honestlyfedup at March 7, 2008 2:58 AM

Re posting by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 2:23 AM.

Anonymity?

Nah, just a decorous veil of modesty, mate.

Posted by: honestlyfedup at March 7, 2008 2:51 AM

Re posting by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 2:23 AM.

Anonymity?

Nah, just a decorous veil of modesty, mate.

Posted by: forestgumpswannabegf at March 7, 2008 2:47 AM

I'm still finding it difficult to give any credence to this timewarp1's particular post.

Oh, I've got it. This character is not a real person, right?

Posted by: honestlyfedup at March 7, 2008 1:33 AM
Well yes the dinosaur does exist and has a visible profile and has made himself known at blog meets around the country.Unlike some bloggers who chose to hide behind anonymity.

Posted by: abckenny at March 7, 2008 2:23 AM

Hi all - just back from a most-enjoyable very long STD date - she gets forever for $2, after 7pm.

VDU @ 10.57pm: Just the right amount, IMHO. Fellas wanton more on your profile are into movie trailers, not buying a ticket for the real thing.

TLD @ 11.05pm: Your usual class act. Tops!

TLD @ 11.47pm and later: Sublime!! A whole new facet of your excellence that I can't remember ever noticing before. Bottoms!

Amber @ 12.06am: Such an important point. It was 26 years from the birth of our first until herself walked, during which we didn't have one single night away from the children. One gets to feel like one of the other distant relatives.

Blueeyes @ 12.18am: Remember to flap the covers, straight away afterwards.

Early start tomorrow - well before fishfart. Seeyezall.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 7, 2008 2:05 AM

Thanks Marcus,
I will redo my profile, eventually............by myself if I have to.

You have no idea how much you have helped me Marcus, but you have, so next time I have a book of stamps I could email and tell you. Once again, thanks.

Malsie, The Power of Now is the best book.Felt compelled to lend it to someone I know who is in a really bad way. Hope it helps them.

Aliane it was my pleasure, how nice to hear your dulcet tones. You are a warm and friendly lady and I am sure your prince will come. What is wrong with the men of Australia, honestly...all the blog women are soooooooooooo nice.

I got some laughs from reading the blog tonight, well done. I will miss ninaschens posts. Have fun ninaschen and hope to meet you at a blog meet one day.

I am myself on meetings and dates. On a first date I am a nervous version of me. That is a date, as opposed to a meeting.

Welcome to the new bloggers, nice to have new "faces".

kianee, keep posting, you have great thoughts. You would have a different slant on things to others, so no need to think it has all been said before, you probably could add an idea or enhance the discussion. Less is more perhaps and maybe that is a thought. You choose your words carefully kianee and must be a wise woman for sure.

Going to try to not post and stay off here till next uni break. Time for some stillness and also more going out, not going out then coming home blogging till late.

You bloggers all rock and I will read and giggle am sure. Take care and I will see whoever comes to SA blog events. Cheers from SSC.

Posted by: slightsynchronicity at March 7, 2008 1:44 AM

Re posting by: timewarp1 at March 6, 2008 7:39 PM.

So timewarp1 specifies a condition for him to send a Virtual Kiss, are three photos of women:

a glamour shot, a lower torso perve "from the knees up",

an upper torso "shoulders" shot -breasts we call them now in this and last century,

and a head with makeup and hairstyle, no less.

But he has no interest in a woman having slim ankles, as he already has them himself as he says,

>"Feet are just feet, and though slim ankles are elegant, I can live without them on her, because I already have them on me."

Why not go a step further and say he has no interest in his partner having feet too?

I suppose he may think (even if it is in the primordial part of the brain,) at least a footless woman couldn't escape from him.

Hmmm...maybe dinosaurs from another era don't realise that a lot of today's women are footloose and fancy free and have a right to choose how they present themselves and whether or not they are going to accept a male's approach?

I wonder too, if any of the prehistoric males who demand different photos of a woman's anatomy before deigning to send a Virtual Kiss or contact, would mind providing a pic taken within the last few months, of themselves in a mankini?

After all, if we're all to descend to the level of purely visual, I would want to at least have some indication of my prospective partner's physical attributes and possible capabilities. (Does size matter? You bet.)

Could I also request a shot of my prospective male partner's teeth before I deigned to reply to his Virtual Kiss?

I'm still finding it difficult to give any credence to this timewarp1's particular post.

Oh, I've got it. This character is not a real person, right?

Posted by: honestlyfedup at March 7, 2008 1:33 AM

Peace and Happy to all....Just drop-by.

Neuroticfish.....thank you for your support and defensive on my part...at Leap Year Proposal...I appreciated that so much...Please come back to blog, missed your funny post.

Slightsyncronicity.....thank you having a sweet talks, hey, we spent almost 30 minutes those lovely blah..blah...sorry for silence number of my Mobile, will text you my number. talk to you soon.

Dating Games.....Representative or Proxy.. hard to detect until it fit's into their shoes, It's common ground show-off first few dating, then slowly the face mask fading. Some may remained unchanged,.. some got split personality,... some can negotiate when one side highly regarded... Could be shot-gun marriage or damping off " no regrets" Or Game is Over...needs to moved-on,...

Dating Games....
It just like....I was Fool once, Shame on You !
I was Fool Twice, Shame on me !

Dating Game is like driving a Car in a long distance journey...be alert, to avoid serious fatal crash head to head collision....could be avoidable or unavoidable....best to do..

Stop....Revive....Survive....Life is Good.

Posted by: aliane at March 7, 2008 12:35 AM

ahh amberlight, I mostly ate what she prepared, a vegetarian delight

Posted by: virgil at March 7, 2008 12:23 AM

As it should be Virgil, and hopefully you never ate baked beans until after the third date!

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 7, 2008 12:19 AM

Thank heavens for that Virgil. You have just risen another peg in my scheme of things. Should Karina suggest we add another comment box to our profiles " disgusting things we do". That should really let people see our true selves.
Am really heading off now to my bed- where I can do what I want without offending anyone.
Goodnight

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 12:18 AM

Ahh well I rarely post on topic, but as tonights topic is farting, and my partner was of the genteel cultured variety, I would either let a silent on slip by, or if able, would excuse myself and go to the toilet and let it rip, in the appropriate place.

Posted by: virgil at March 7, 2008 12:12 AM

Karina seems to think that a long-term relationship is about taking each other for granted. The counsellor we saw when my marriage was "on it's last legs" insisted that one of the most important things a couple can do to maintain their relationship is to keep "dating" even after the children come along. Obviously not "spending cash like there is no tomorrow", that is clearly not sustainable, but spending time alone together, even just walking, talking quietly, or just going out for a coffee together. Those things that remind you of your partner as a person, not just their role as a mother or father.
Sadly even before we were married, my ex didn't have time for that sort of thing (and I STILL married him!) of course, when our marriage was "dying" it was even less important to him.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 7, 2008 12:06 AM

Hey Jen Jen, I wonder what other gruesome
habits Karina has had to witness on her first dates- maybe that is where she gets her inspiration from. I don't think I will tell all that i have seen. Although a man chewing gum and simultaneously downing 3 beers on a first meeting at lunchtime didn't impress me too much. Especially when he added he still had a hangover from the previous night.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 7, 2008 12:06 AM

They only gave us this topic today blueeyes, so we can have fun with it for a while yet !! :))

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 6, 2008 11:58 PM

The topics appear randomly ...when you least expect them....like dates and kisses and emails....and intestinal gas...

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 6, 2008 11:57 PM

OOps, should read - don't think Willow would include baked beans. It must be late- I'm missing my own typos.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 6, 2008 11:55 PM

Is there some magic number of comments that have to be made before they give us a new topic? If so tell us so we can move on.I don't even think Willow wouldn't include baked beans in his dinners.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 6, 2008 11:52 PM

Dear Miss Manners,
Would it be alright to accept a call or a ring from someone you have not heard fart in an inappropriate place?

What about if it takes place in an appropriate place?

Virginia

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 6, 2008 11:51 PM

Irate husband :Excuse me sir! Did you just fart in front of my wife?

Man: Oh, I am terribly sorry...I didn't know it was her turn.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 6, 2008 11:47 PM

Karina sure has a phobia about flatulence! She refers to it no less than 4 times in her rather "diffferent" take on new relationships. I can only think that she has been involved in the past with a closet baked bean fanatic who never let on (or off) until they had moved to the "next level". Phew! It must have been some heck of a whirlwind romance if they managed to marry or get pregnant before the first fart.

Posted by: amberlight58 at March 6, 2008 11:44 PM

G, don't you mean thought???
Yes a grunting Harley will do it for me....as a prop that is.................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 6, 2008 11:44 PM

Bloody hell.. Third time lucky.. Thought... ok? Yay.. got it right.. Now I can go .. Sorry guys... and gals.... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 6, 2008 11:44 PM

Told you I was tired.. Typo on yours ..K.. Should have been tought.. Sorry.... "G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 6, 2008 11:40 PM

I agree wholeheartedly BlueEyes...

Seems like all the bloggers have gone to bed without saying goodnight... I'm off too.

Night all :-)

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 6, 2008 11:38 PM

Nina.. weidersehen... zusse traumen.(think I spelt that correctly) Am tired.. Will check it in the am and slap my wrist if it's wrong.. x.."G"

VDU.. a french maids outfit with feather duster in hand would probably do the trick for 99% of the males!!!!! Hmmm.."G"

K... A bit of grunt eh???? Who'd have thught?? :0)) "G"

Night alll.. Play nice..."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at March 6, 2008 11:37 PM

victoria thankyou.. I enjoy reading your posts too.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 6, 2008 11:37 PM

okay, then we need a list of inappropriate settings to be sure.....

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 6, 2008 11:36 PM

Okay heres the thing, people not all ways but mostly present themselves to be something of not the whole truth, both women and men. I could say I help run a multi million dollar company but I may only be a buyer for clothes, its not that I am a CEO or anything, by the way I am not a buyer or CEO but I do play my small part.

You want to know something I have never met the man inside a guy. The person who buys flowers etc. I have only met the guy who is what he is. The problem is that women want a man to be themselves but also be the guy inside. I want it, but I know I may never get it. We want flowers and gifts and to know we are wanted and men feel pressured by it, so they pretend to be at time something they are not. Thats where a relationship or should I say a possible relationship will end.

Forget fantasy think with your head and heart, act on both and maybe we can find our prince or princess. And most of all be your self from get go, that way at least the opposite sex that do like you like you for who you are not just a character your pertraying.

Posted by: jazz1701 at March 6, 2008 11:33 PM

Gosh, if any guy thinks that f**ting on the first meeting is okay , I'll be out of there like a shot.Is Karina for real on this question? If that is the extent of someone's manners then I don't want to see any more of what they have to offer.
Yes be yourself,but hopefully you will always show the manners a partner would deserve whether on the first date or after being together for ages.

Posted by: blueeyes1955 at March 6, 2008 11:31 PM

Mals, how are you enjoying your time in WA?????

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 6, 2008 11:20 PM

I found the website that this "The Dating Game" came from, only they left off the last pearls of wisdom. Cut and pasted here for your interest/amusement !!

"To all of you "daters" out there: Do not BUY or ACCEPT a ring from someone who you have never heard fart while in an inappropriate setting. When that happens, and you are still in love, then you have a match worth working on."

Oh dear.............

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 6, 2008 11:19 PM

Lynath...always a delight to read your comments, so beautifully expressed.

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 6, 2008 11:18 PM

Marcus, is a plunger the male equivalent of a plunging neckline as in terms of props???And no l am not being rude just a lame attempt at humor..........

VDU, nah l don't think l am a prude pet, as you well know that word really isn't in my vocabulary......
.Lynath, "The way you look tonight" a particular favorite of the old crooner songs, especially when sung by Tony Bennett and Harry Connick Jr does a good version too.
Karina sure knows how to mangle a headline......................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 6, 2008 11:17 PM

I'm envious Virgil... Glenelg is one of my favourite places after having spent time there in the early 80s - oh my goodness, I'm feeling very old now!!!

Marcus, my profile is easily accessible... click on my name at the end of this post!!! Forget vituperative... try laudatortive instead :-)

Bean, glad to see you're hanging in here... we Melbourne ladies are a tenacious group to be reckoned with!!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 6, 2008 11:12 PM

I have always found Marcus' post to be fair and reasonable, and on the occasions he paid out on me, I have looked back and agreed I deserved it.

Particularly the yes, yes, yes comment of the other night.

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 11:10 PM

When I read this topic introduction this afternoon I literally could not stop laughing at the awfulness of it!

Immediately the lyrics of one of the most beautiful love songs popped into my head(and are probably ruined for life now)

"Lovely, say you'll never change, keep that breathless charm,won't you please arrange it , 'Cause I love you, just the way you look tonight..."

I wondered why a Dating site would put up such a topic. Isn't the aim of RSVP to keep the idea and ideal of romance alive? (At least until you purchase several of their products)

This is one depressing blog topic.

Is this what dating, romance and manners have come to? "best you can hope for is that this happens sometime before marriage or pregnancy"??? sound very much like "hope it breaks before the guarantee runs out" as though you have purchased a ktichen appliance. (known to break down within a few years these days!)

Of course it is well known that nature causes us to see objects of our affection in a glowing light until the process of matching and hatching has had time to occur(about 18 months) and the human race ensured.

After a certain time of dating on best behaviour, couples start to relax and gradually show more and more of their true selves. This is a good thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with turning into an inconsiderate, ungroomed sloth who has suddenly lost all social graces and manners.
It is not a given that this will happen, it only happens if people allow it.

If that is what has happened in the relationship then it is a matter of lack of respect and lack of personal standards on the part of the person and on the part of the person accepting or allowing the disrespect.
Compromises will be made about tv shows, sport friends and all the rest, but there is no reason why good manners and consideration can't always be part of the relationship whether it lasts 1 or 100 years.

As time progresses the true person starts to emerge and some normal human behaviour will no doubt be seen.
Seeing someone at their worst with a dose of Flu or head in a bucket and being there caring for them or being there for the person through a bad time such as loss of job or promotion or failing an exam or family crisis,bonds couples Seeing each other under stress ,angry ,.happy sad drunk, overweight, too skinny etc etc etc and all the other variations is what causes you to know the real person, builds trust, and to come to truly love and accept them faults and all.(or of course to discover they are axe murderers etc and run a mile)
The myth of the perfect partner is what sends some people searcching from relationship to relationship and never finding happiness.

Posted by: thelynathdiary at March 6, 2008 11:05 PM

nevertearusapart - in answer to your question in the Blog topic site - yes, I definitely recommend The Power of Now. I think I've raved on about it enough elsewhere, so will say no more now and leave it at that.

Hope you come back to us soon, Nina :)

Posted by: malsie at March 6, 2008 11:05 PM

no Marcus

I was referring to the bed.

The breakfast was excellent as well.

The family are Port Adelaide supporters, so my first reality check, as they are wonderful people.

I have recently got a bookkeeping client who played for Glenelg in the SANFL and who also is a Port Supporter.

In the bus from Glenelg last year, on the way to the final between Port and West Coast, there were more Eagles supporters than Port, but that is to be expected as Glenelg is a holiday destination.

At the ground, I found the Port supporters to be no different really to an Eagles crowd at Subi.

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 11:02 PM

Sorry victoriadownunder.
I'm slipping.
I should say somthing vituperative instead.
Why not reveal your profile so I can appreciate it.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 6, 2008 11:01 PM

Marcus,

How lovely to read a serious post from you with no trace of vitriol... I knew you had it in you!!!

My main photo shows as much cleavage as I deem appropriate without appearing wanton, but that's just me. From many a male's point of view it's probably too tame...

Nina, I'll miss your insightful, though infrequent posts... who needs quantity when you provide quality every time!!

Kaz, you a prude??? I think not pet LOL

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 6, 2008 10:57 PM

Virgil mate.
Place sounds lovely and I like a native garden.
Bed sounds commodious too; tell me though, you are not a queen are you?
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 6, 2008 10:47 PM

oohhh stoic

I could so see that coming.

Go the Bombers indeed, form a local West Aussie from the Western Suburbs.

As a West Coast Member of 20 years, seeing the brave followers of teams from Victoria, come along knowing full well thewir team was ging to be flogged by the Eagles at Subi, I knew it was time to take an AAMI stadium and Crows Gold membership, so I could see my adopted team 12 times a year.

Not sure what colours I will be wearing to the round 2 clash though. Maybe normal streetwear, and both scarves in my bag?

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 10:46 PM

It's looks like an absolutely stunning spot - wish it was my front yard!

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 6, 2008 10:41 PM

impossible bean

When I moved here in August last year, I stayed at the Glenelg Bed and Breakfast for 4 days while my furniture was coming across. it was a wonderful holiday, with excellent hosts.

The owner, drove me out to my new unit, and when I told him I was looking for someone to help sort the place when my furniture arrived, he volunteered.

He has since become my first friend here in South Australia, and the photo was taken by him, in his front garden.

An excellent place for anyone thinking to visit Adelaide. Extremely reasonable rates, a queen bed in a large bedroom, B & B for when I stayed there $70 per night.

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 10:37 PM

What does 'Not afraid to show affection in public" mean, yikes, is some old bloke going to try to jump me in the coffee shop. Does that mix in with 'not acting my age' scarey stuff, who said anything about acting! What does this all mean, what age are they going to act, should I bring diapers and a dummy or maybe a wheelchair and the diapers. I don't like people hanging all over me in public, course unless I've had a couple too many and then I am very grateful for a hand crossing the road and finding the car....but affection in public. Does one gather an audience first and then shriek loudly "Now"....ooooh the vision of two oldies going at it in public is too much...eewwwww.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 10:36 PM

victoriadownunder.
I say this with seriousness. If you can organise a respectable one, a cleavage (not a plumber's) is the time honored prop.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 6, 2008 10:34 PM

I'm doing a Willow. Giving it a rest, for a while. Those I know and love have my contact details (hi, Stoic, nice to see you pop in!).

OG and L&T - knock yourselves (and each other) out. Enjoy the blogs.

Posted by: ninaschen at March 6, 2008 10:31 PM

Yes Riversong, your words in your profile are sincere and so realistic. The reality is as human beings we are not born or made to be alone in this world, we all crave love and acceptance for who we are and what we are. It is part of our make up. Judging people and looking for faults only makes other people feel suspicious and, anyway, who has the right to do that. Everyone in this world has good points and bad points which is fine, just add them all up and see what you get and forget what other people think, if you like the person go for it......could be the best things that ever happened.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 10:30 PM

A prude? Not really Kaz.

There is a time and place for everything and I think it is a valid question whether a public profile read by complete strangers is the time and place for it.

Posted by: stoic at March 6, 2008 10:27 PM

Then Riversong, some humble women do not need a Studio shot or look like they need much make up either, no cosmetics much needed when the basic structures are already there.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 6, 2008 10:27 PM

iaminperth....I love your Men are like posting...I'm still laughing over that, which is much needed due to the departure of the wonderful Willow...

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 6, 2008 10:24 PM

welcome to the bloggs Perth

I lived in WA for 37 years, and still retain my West Coast Captains Club Membership

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 10:23 PM

Oh and l will also add the activity that some prefer........"giving sensual massages"
What the???
Or am l being a prude??
Oh now l am being picky l guess......

Jen Jen there aint no way this girl is posing with a dead darned fish.....
The motorbike l could handle as long as it was "grunty" Vroom Vroom.
Grunty bikes do have a certain appeal.....
Not the quiet ones that creep up and scare the hell out of you when you are in your own world on the highways and byways of the suburbs.
Nothing turns the head like a grunty Harley..Well my head anyway.................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 6, 2008 10:22 PM

Jen, what "props" would we women folk use in our profiles??? A scotch fillet and a sewing machine??? :-)

Posted by: victoriadownunder at March 6, 2008 10:20 PM

Riversong you've misread what I typed. Glamour phots require a foundation for the foundation then doundation then powder then a foundation for the eyeshadow then shading and blending and so much more which I can be bothered going into whereas I like to swish on some mascara and some lippy then walk out the door. Glamour makeup takes a long time to put on and it's not a real representation of what you look like because it covers up the features which make you you

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 6, 2008 10:16 PM

You have just gone up in my estimation iaminperth :)

Posted by: stoic at March 6, 2008 10:15 PM

Ha Riversong are we in a humble competition? :-}}
Make up is fine of course just not the over the top come hither pictures, and hasten to add that wearing makeup in general is a pre requisite of this girlie as it is for most.....
Continuing my ever so humble thoughts.............K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 6, 2008 10:14 PM

Hmmmm seems a lot of blokes like photos with fish or motorbikes, so I am thinking maybe that is the way for us girls to go to attract some attention...........

Posted by: jenjen57 at March 6, 2008 10:13 PM

Go the bombers !

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 10:13 PM

Hey Virgil - where was that profile phot taken? It's looks like a lovely place to picnic. Similar to a spot my family used to go to around Byron Bay when we visited my uncle and his family but I can't remember what it was called.

Is Karina so lazy she didn't read what she was copying and pasting? We don't have Monday Night Football here!

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 6, 2008 10:11 PM

Of course mascara and lippy and blusher and whatever is lovely...I think the meaning of glamour shots....airbrushed professional protographs which really end up looking nothing like the person at all. It's not that they look younger or older, they just look totally different. Surely, clean hair, sparkling teeth, lovely smile is very attractive to both male and female and doesn't need a professional with high tech airbrushing techniques to achieve this.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 10:09 PM

Well gee - so that's the consensus - no glamour shots with mascara or lippy, but just look totally gorgeous anyway - gee - real life I see? Is this why no-one seems to be able to find what they are looking for?

Just my ever more so humble opinion :)

Posted by: riversong1 at March 6, 2008 10:00 PM

ohh iamin perth

men are like..........

That is soo cool I bet you are a West Coast Eagles Member, you would have to be to be so cool.

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 9:50 PM

Yes Wishful, why is it so??
A glamor shot is sooo not the real thing, and a turn off for men and women, as distinct from a good picture which is at least representative of the person you are in the sight sense.

Otherwise l think l will have to go get my eyes tested and wear glasses for close ups as well as driving, like l am mean to...............K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 6, 2008 9:50 PM

Kaz...came across a guy with the most fantastic photo....and it turned out to be a studio shot - and he looked absolutely nothing like it - it could of been someone totally different.....never thought guys were into that sort of thing...but in seeing the two shots together...now I know WHY he did it :)

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 6, 2008 9:43 PM

I guess we could have 'farting fish' photos !!

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 9:26 PM

I think we have to forgive the 'fish' photos at times because they are probably the only photos available at the time. I guess also it shows that the guy is active and enjoys getting out and doing something. The thing I hate the most is 'showing affection in public', or rather 'not afraid to''...whatever does that mean, who are they afraid of and why do they feel the need.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 9:25 PM

Timewarp, l would prefer men's main profile pictures to have NONE of the following....
Fish of any description held up beside a boat of any description.
Singlets, shorts and thongs.
Sunglasses.
Self portraits that look like Chopper Read.
Glamor shots....yes men have them too....

What l would like to see.....
A natural shot of a well dressed man.
Front of would be preferable
Looking like he is anything like he is meant to....as in relatively current.
Don't need to view the ankles as l am not a foot person.....
Am l being too picky???

Glamor shots are an illusion Timewarp, most people would surely see through that...WnW l am firmly in your corner on that one....
Just my ever so humble opinion................K

Posted by: auntykaz at March 6, 2008 9:18 PM

I've met two farters so far, the second one I just thumped.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 9:07 PM

Men are like....

1. Men are like ..Laxatives ...... They irritate the crap out of you.
2. Men are like.Bananas . The older they get, the less firm they are.
3. Men are like Weather . Nothing can be done to change them.
4. Men are like ....Blenders You need One, but you're not quite sure why.
5. Men are like ....Chocolate Bars . Sweet, smooth, & they usually head right for your hips.
6. Men are like ....Commercials ?....... You can't believe a word they say.
7. Men are like Department Stores . Their clothes are always 1/2 off!
8. Men are like ......Government Bonds ?.... They take soooooooo long to mature.
9. Men are like .....Mascara . They usually run at the first sign of emotion.
10. Men are like Popcorn .... They satisfy you, but only for a little while.
11. Men are like Snowstorms . You never know when they're coming, how many inches you'll get or how long it will last.
12. Men are like .......Lava Lamps .. Fun to look at, but not very bright.
13. Men are like Parking Spots All the good ones are taken, the rest are handicapped.

but we still luv em !

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 9:04 PM

That's an hilarious story - I can't believe you walked off! I've got friends who would have propossed to him the spot! :)

Too funny, am still giggling.

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 6, 2008 9:02 PM

I absolutely agree Perth, clean and tidy - presentable - is a requirement. Glamour shots aren't and they're just too much trouble. It takes ages to get the makeup and another age to get it all off again.

Go with what works for you I say, I'm just not a fan of the glamour pjotography genre - too false for my liking. A swish of mascara and some lippy and Im out the door

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 6, 2008 9:00 PM

I actually love frogs and have cared for many when I lived in Queensland. I have never heard a frog fart. Do you know as a matter of fact that males and females fart the equal amounts of time. Seems though that males like to hear and smell theres whereas females mostly just get on with life. However there are some females who can't resist playing dutch oven now and then with an unsuspecting male.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 8:58 PM

Oh no, it really was the frogs after all. Do you mean I wrecked a budding romance by jumping to conclusions...oh woe is me!!!!............I think not.....damn that representative frog!!

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 8:55 PM

Iaminperth...it wasn't really him...it was his representative...you should give the "real" him another chance:)

Posted by: istj54 at March 6, 2008 8:52 PM

I was walking my dog with a man I had met a couple of times and he suddenly said 'Oh, can you hear the frogs". This apparently was the sound of him farting. I looked around to this middle aged man standing with a stupid grin on his face stinking like a sewer and asked him if he believed that made him more attractive to a woman and then walked off. My dog smells better any day of the week.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 8:49 PM

She's saying, "Did you just fart?'...and he, leaning in, answers, "Yes, did you like it, a cheeky little drop...another date, perhaps, now that we have that out of the way?"

Posted by: istj54 at March 6, 2008 8:41 PM

I rather like it when I meet someone to see they are tidy and clean shaven and clean. It shows to me that they value the meeting and have made an effort. I don't expect someone to get overdressed in a casual situation but it is nice to see clean and tidy appropriate to the setting. I cannot understand, not accept that someone would turn up looking a scruffy mess with dirty fingernails etc., unless, of course, you have agreed to meet somewhere directly after his work and on the way home. I mean there are always horses for courses and we all look scruffy and untidy at times and then at others it's so nice to dress to impress. I think always the best solution is to be who you are and if the other person likes you, that's good, and if they don't that's good too, because then you know exactly where you stand. It's win/win all the way as far as I am concerned.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 8:39 PM

Yes, for men also. Shots displaying their real selves, from knees to shoulder with an obligatory side profile, often [usually] the worst bits!

Woodnwine: interesting your earlier comment in the other blog about being put off by the photo, that having asked to see the photo you haven't wanted to follow up as you felt from the photo that the women appeared too "glamorous", or not sufficiently casual - sorry, forget your wording but think that was the gist. I related to that because it's happened to me I think, in that people [with an apparently casual lifestyle] have asked for my photo p/w and then I've not heard. [I've now changed my profile so that they can see one photo.] But my point is that I really made an effort to put up the best photo of myself that I could, and that meant, yes, putting on a bit of mascara, lippie, etc. I too am a fairly 'casual' person in the sense of my lifestyle, but for the purposes of my rsvp profile, want to present myself as "glamorously" as I possibly can! Best foot forward, so to speak, etc. Are you saying that it would have been better to do the t-shirt and tracky-daks with no make-up in order to attract a male? Really, I'm not being facetious, but wonder sometimes if I'm living on a different planet. Is this why I can't find a man ...

Posted by: hinterlandlover at March 6, 2008 8:37 PM

I think that the petulant virgil and the old bloke should put their dollies back in their prams and get on with their lives. Women don't like old women they find them boring and tedious so get over it for everyone's sake, especially you Virgil, you are being a complete bore.

Posted by: iaminperth at March 6, 2008 8:33 PM

Glamour shots?! Timewarp do you have any idea how long it takes to do those things? If you have to glam up to 'land' a man then he's in for a shock when you show up next time without a face full of spak filler and pretty colours to highlight your best features :)

Posted by: impossiblebean at March 6, 2008 8:18 PM

I always warn women when I meet them that "this is what I'm really like" ... I don't put up a front to impress at all. They can take it or leave it .... OK, so far the've mostly left it but my time will come.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 6, 2008 8:07 PM

timewarper - I couldn't disagree more. I hate glamour shots with a passion ... they give you no idea what the person really looks like.

riversong ... I can hear what you are saying but ultimately there has to be some physical attraction. Yes, it is only one part of the person's make up but it still has to be there to get past friendship.

Posted by: woodnwine at March 6, 2008 8:05 PM

I'm not sure that everyone does send a "representative". To me that sounds like you have gone to great lengths to get someone to do your bidding for you - crazy really when in the end it's down to you and him/her. "Do you accept or call someone who you have never heard fart while in an inappropriate setting?" - what the heck is THIS is all about? Does this mean on your first date - you have to let it rip - just so that part is out of the way and you CAN accept a call? I'm wondering just what Karina is on about this time....the topics just get more benign as time goes on.

Sorry to see the crap from the last topic has infiltrated this one too - some people just don't know WHEN to give up - maybe they are the same ones that fart on first dates...who knows.....

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at March 6, 2008 7:53 PM

When and if do we get real with the other person?

Everybody's different. For a start, some people's Profiles are no way near reality, in words and/or pictures.

Speaking personally as a man, I wish every woman on RSVP would show us one real glamour shot - a professionally made up face, professionally photographed.

Not because that's herself every day. No - just to show that she's fair dinkum about making a significant effort just once, to represent her most glamorous possiblities.

For 2 reasons: to give the glamour-pusses a run for their money, and to remind herself that if she was prepared to go to all that trouble, she could be a glamour puss herself, on a continuing basis. Or at least on Saturday evenings, until she's caught herself a man. Hopefully good for her ongoing self-esteem.

And I agree with Marcus recently that a man deserves to see a shot of most of the woman, before he's expected to send a kiss. This is the one that should be less than 2 years out of date, and captioned with the date, if she's at all fair dinkum about landing a man who is OK about women her size and shape.

Standing facing the camera and showing from the knees up is enough for me. Feet are just feet, and though slim ankles are elegant, I can live without them on her, because I already have them on me.

I like to see a third photo : head and shoulders in a good strong light, and wearing the makeup and haistyle that she wears to the supermarket. The real her.

Work has got me time-stressed. More later.

Posted by: timewarp1 at March 6, 2008 7:39 PM

Virgil - umpires can never win, because no matter what they do, half the crowd will curse them!

Posted by: riversong1 at March 6, 2008 7:34 PM

Hey, how does one reply to previous blogs once the gate is closed?

Re the previous:

Thanks isj54 - WnW - best advice - just be yourself ;)

Hello noname7 and welcome. I peeked at your profile and am continualyy astounded by the quality women that are being overlooked on account of numerical pre/misconceptions - their loss I guess!

WnW - yes, I do think the outerwrapping/chemistry/attraction thing is rather shallow - been on the recieving end - very flimsy. Especially unwise to be the main criteria for people our age, for whom it is the one thing guaranteed to fade. Better to develop an ability to be and see and appreciate the more enduring inner kind, I think, and take people for what they are truely worth.

Just my humble opinion :)

Posted by: riversong1 at March 6, 2008 7:32 PM

have a thought for AFL players riversong, the rules change frequently, but worse than that, the umpires are instructed to penalise things differently each game.

Then factor in different umpires biases, the crowd, particularly at an Eagles game at Subi, and you have the most inconsistent rules you could never imagine.

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 7:19 PM

Marcus

I wonder if we really are aware when we are not being ourselves all the time.

In the heightened emotional conditions of a first date with someone we feel appropriate, we, well I feel I am being myself, but that might well be different to the myself I am if my girlfriend of long standing comes over at a crucial point of a footy game.

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 7:16 PM

It IS a "game", and especially difficult when everyone is playing by different rules!

Posted by: riversong1 at March 6, 2008 7:12 PM

Good grief. What literary contortion has the lovely Karina inflicted on us now? Semi intelligible grammar, spelling, a collection of assumptions and what appears to be an admission of preference for flatulent partners.
Interesting enough question though. I suppose it boils down to can we be ourselves; no masks or masquerade.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at March 6, 2008 7:01 PM

ah ah Karina I LOVE IT!! That is oh so true we DO all do that!! Though some will not admit I AGREE! So we really SHOULD TRULY try to be our selves and say it and act it as it is in order to get the right girl or guy for us or we are just wasting our time and theirs... my representitive has definately gone she was around for a while but now she speaks up a lot more for herself these days ...I quite like what the swiss do i think its them? Anyways they write up alist and of likes and dislikes for a first date and so does the guy ...they confur...if there are a few likes they will chance it if their are lots of dont likes that do not match they wont even go there!
Bye from Bluejeansbaby

Posted by: bluejeansbaby at March 6, 2008 6:39 PM

Child abuse would be an appropriate description. Just ask the teachers at her school if you have the courage

Let alone invasion of privacy. Using the RSVP site for a purpose it was not intended for.

Maybe I will officially complain to RSVP

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 6:06 PM

Fedup, She read it once and then only for about 10 posts on the PJ thing, I then showed her the 2 profiles of the men concerned. Because she wanted to see them. That was the sum total of the episode. My profile is open and honest, go read it, then come back and critisise me. if your honest enough.
OG

Posted by: oldergent at March 6, 2008 4:31 PM

Yep Karina, you've got it in one with the "representatives", or peoples' representation of themselves.

That's also, after getting through the representative profiles we have on here.

Besides some of the bloggers' careful constructions of themselves that goes on day by day, if not hour by hour or minute by minute.

But wait, some bloggers can't help eventually letting slip, aspects of their personalities.

Some, we wish they wouldn't.
Some we like immediately and some we grow to like.

As for when these representations are gone? (Karina's final question.)

Think that depends on basic physical and mental compatibility along with acceptance, so that it is of no consequence if your loved one will have normal expressions such as "fart while in an inappropriate setting".

By the way, is Karina descending to the level of of childish behaviour that's exhibited on the blogs with mentions of hot air - "gassy" and "farting"?

Or perhaps she's catering to the level of a certain OF's grandchild who's allowed to read these blogs as well as other OF's that contribute to the blogs?

Well, I'm off. -Not "O"ld and not "F"arting.

Sheesh, there's something about human's adapting to their environment...

Posted by: honestlyfedup at March 6, 2008 3:22 PM

Hmm this is an "interesting" topic. Have to say I was a bit baffled about the whole "representatives" thing!! I think what Karina (or whoever wrote this) is trying to say, is that people are on their best behaviour when they first meet/start dating. I think there is a difference between being on your best behaviour and downright being deceitful. I know some people tend to "alter" their personalities to suit the person there perhaps on a date with. That is pointless really because if you end up in a relationship with this person, sooner or later your "true" personality will be shown!! Obviously, on say a first date someone isnt going to sit there and belch/fart! One would hope not anyway lol.

Honesty is always the best way to go. For example, if someone was to say to me on a first date (like the RSVP tv ad) "I cant stand animals", well that would be a deal breaker for me, just as if the person I was on a date with loved nightclubbing and wanted someone who did as well, I could understand them deciding I wasnt right for them. Fair enough.

I think it all comes down to really reading someone's profile and at least from that thinking you actually have things in common, rather than just going on their photo and thinking their "hot" or whatever.

I have been on dates with men who are completely different to what they say they are on their profiles and in subsequent chats. It's obvious from first meeting them, they have been rather creative in their descriptions of themselves and their personalities. This is such a waste of time, for both of us.

Don't alter your personality just to suit the person you're dating . . it's pointless

Posted by: nevertearusapart at March 6, 2008 2:52 PM

W N W

in a politically correct enevionment it could be said that it is the person underneath, and the looks dont matter.

I know that might be the case once we get to know a person, and for some, looks dont matter at all.

Many people dont photograph well, I have had coffee with people where the photos were not flattering, and also people who rely on old photo's which they say are new.

Its also possible we may not want to know who has added us to their favorites.

There are actually quite a lot of lurkers about, when I started blogging i had lots of blokes from all over the country checking my profile out, now I have no objection to this being done by fellow bloggers, but the hundreds of lurkers, mostly blokes made me feel uncomfortable.

Posted by: virgil at March 6, 2008 2:36 PM