RSVP Blog

Marcus @ 2.36 pm.
I actually walked in on a big dog situation once, never been much of a big dog lover since, (maybe I should rephrase that). Yes I thought Perth was a feisty woman and would not capitulate like that, I used the TW shot at her, but if the truth is to be know I had a quite smile, at her "self serving" shot and looked forward to Bill's reply, (once he got his teeth from the back of his throat), I cannot imagine a woman like that is not watching from the background and sincerly hope she comes back with a renewed determination not to be dominated by a mongrel like you (or Bill) lol
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at April 15, 2008 4:03 PM

and TW haven't they all jumped on it.

Of course there was those American "lifter shoes" they advertised back in the fifties. They would lift you 2 1/2 inches. Most expensive, I got a pair but when you wore them they had a tendency to make you run every where, most sloppy in a pub. and hard to stop sharpish.
Be more careful next time. lol
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at April 15, 2008 3:45 PM

oldergent at April 15, 2008 2:26 PM

My mistake, i asummed TW was refering to circumference so thought him a bragger....silly me. I'm now feeling quite tall amonst this crew which is just as well given my other shortcomings....despite what Ww says.

laughsandtalks at April 15, 2008 2:36 PM

I consider myself a balanced personality as I dress to the left but lean to the right.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at April 15, 2008 3:32 PM

I hate to say it, WnW, but I think troy may well be right, that it is indeed a brush off line.
I met someone through rsvp recently who knocked me back (how is this possible? :) )
and was very honest and forthright in saying he would like to pursue a friendship, but didn't see anything else developing. Much as I appreciated his honesty, there was an instinct to go just down that line that you mentioned, troy - "Why? What did I say or do that you don't like?" Of course I quickly knocked that one on the head, because it's absurd. There may have been something specific, but most likely it was just his general instinct that there wasn't anything there for him, something undefinable that he had absolutely no need to attempt to explain. So whilst I still prefer the honest and direct for me, I think you may have to pick your audience. Someone else may well give you third degree about it all and a "softer" less direct approach may be appropriate at times.

Nice to see what used to be such a
female-dominated forum now shared with a lot more men - good change of dynamic.

Posted by: malsie at April 15, 2008 2:55 PM

timewarper - waht are you talking about ..... wanting an extra two and a half inches .... haven't you heard? Size isn't everything!

Posted by: woodnwine at April 15, 2008 2:40 PM

Warped.
Hmm. I like mine about 5' 2".
I'm told by my study group (all mothers) that member's height is not that important but girth most certainly is.
Enjoyed your comments earlier about the direction that old bulls might charge from.
As a natural leftie, left dressing, left handed, left field and so on I need to watch the blind side.
OG. I couldn't believe it either when I read Iampert suggestion that she was passive. I was hoping she would have picked up on my comments about women and their relationships with big boy dogs.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 15, 2008 2:36 PM

Troy.
Well I'm bloody sure they don't go for a 5'6" bald ugly little fella no matter how much my personality shines. I'd settle for 5'10. lol

TW, what does that make it then 4 and a half inches, that bit in the sleeve? use it, 5 inches is getting respectable. Not like you to leave yourself that open. LOL

Posted by: oldergent at April 15, 2008 2:26 PM

Aliane @ April 14, 1.55pm...

"Happened to be picked a wrong girl, she have extravagance green thumbs.." etc..

Certainly, an interesting post.
..athough difficult (for most) to understand I would think. I'm sure further clarification would be appreciated.

Posted by: decoratress at April 15, 2008 2:11 PM

Troy @ 1.28pm: All my adult life I've wished for that extra two and a half inches.

It would give me the reach that the 5 foot 5 girls (the size that I like), mostly say they need. And a half inch up my sleeve, so to speak.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 15, 2008 2:01 PM

Cripes OG, do you really thin girls go for guys because they're 6'6", as woody would be. Not much chance for me at 5'10'....and a half hehe.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at April 15, 2008 1:28 PM

Woody, Troy.
Both right, I have had that used on me and have used it on some, not on this site.
I am very open in my profile that I do not, will not get married again. I am enjoying some mails with people that are more pen friends and look forward to their mail. Some that think we could accomodate each others wishes are interstate so that rules that out, as I have no wish to relocate and neither do they.
But Woody I think if you got a face transplant to look something like Robert Redford,grow 6 inches, talk like George Sanders, have a pocket like Gates and the brain of Wells, you would come pretty close to attracting a lady looking for her ONE, of course feet like Daffy Duck for walking in the sand would be an advantage (kind of).
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at April 15, 2008 1:16 PM

troyohboy - that's a fair point and I'm sure it happens.

Posted by: woodnwine at April 15, 2008 1:12 PM

woodnwine at April 15, 2008 12:07 PM

Mate, I in know way wish to give offence, but have you considered that these women who tell you they don't have time for a bloke are giving you the politest brush ever as they wish to limit your hurt. Only say it 'cause I've used it. Please don't start on the honesty thing everyone. Sometimes, someone is very nice, just not for you, you don't want to hurt them, it's just taken a bit to realise it and you just can't pinpoint what's wrong. So the question will be asked, "I thought everything was good so why".......and there just isn't any answer you can verbalise.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at April 15, 2008 12:37 PM

troyohboy - I think this starts to cross over into the other blog about what men and women actually want. I've met several women through RSVP who say they want a relationship but when it comes to crunch time they say .... "you know what, I really think I'm too busy ... busy job, kids to look after, friends to see. I'm not so sure I actually have time for a man in my life."

Hello, why did they get on RSVP then and seek a relationship? And that's when some of them decide to just settle for a FWB arrangement ... or maybe stay with one they already had going.

It seems to really get down to ... what is it you want? If you don't have that clear in your head before you join RSVP, you are just going to cause drama to others and possibly to yourself as well.

Posted by: woodnwine at April 15, 2008 12:07 PM

woodnwine at April 15, 2008 7:57 AM

I don't think you get that, to my understanding, FWB relationships just happen, they are not planned, usually, and until you find yourself in that particular circumstance you are unable to understand how it evolves...I think. For myself, as previously described, it just happened and it wasn't until later I realised it for what it was. I'm not really into the FWB thing and can't see myself in that type of relationship again, but you never know what will happen and the different feelings you will have for someone you may meet.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at April 15, 2008 9:22 AM

WnW

My experience with FWB followed seamlessly from a 4 year relationship with the same person, it was totally momogamous and very few people knew it was FWB assuming it to be the relationship continuing.

This put both of us outside the possibilities for relationships with others.

Our grieveing period for the relationship did not begin until I left WA.

So this was in fact quite a different FWB to what has mostly been described d here.

Posted by: virgil at April 15, 2008 8:37 AM

Malsie - that's right, people need to be able to feel comfortable that they can put forward their viewpoint on something without fear of being attacked. These are blogs .... we're not running for Parliament!

Come on all you lurkers ... give us your thoughts too.

Posted by: woodnwine at April 15, 2008 8:27 AM

Thanks virgil ... it's nice to see that someone at least "gets it". Everyone has their perfect right to do what ever they want as consenting adults (so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else) but why come on RSVP if you aren't actually looking for a relationship? Have your FWBs if you want, but just don't involve others ..... or are you just using us to "make up your mind"?

"Gee, I thought I wanted it all but you know what, my life is just so ditzy at the moment I think I'll just sleep with (whoever) as it's easy and uncomplicated .... so, goodbye". What the?

Posted by: woodnwine at April 15, 2008 7:57 AM

hinterlandlover, I see a lot of truth in what you say there about anyone "lurking", reading but not contributing. So many people tentatively commenting for the first time sounding almost apologetic for doing so, pleading for people to be "gentle" with them as it's their "first time". They shouldn't have to feel that way - it's a public forum; nobody "owns" the blogs, or has any kind of seniority (even if they think they have).

Presumably this tentative approach is brought about by witnessing the way some people get systematically shredded to pieces every now and again - frequently for no apparent reason, it seems to me.

Posted by: malsie at April 14, 2008 10:43 PM

WnW

I can now see your side of the FWB debate. to miss out on relationships because of it would be upsetting to me also.

Posted by: virgil at April 14, 2008 10:05 PM

Kaz @ 5.10pm on 13th: Please re-read a bit of my post @ 4.34pm on 12th. With your glasses on. Point 2 is the relevant bit.

And then tell me where I've said anything against the right to choose the sex of your beloved in a mutual relationship.

Hinter @ 3pm on 14th: Yes, I saw you personally copping some flak from the right flank, for breaking cover on the left, early on.

So did I inexplicably from Kaz, despite my similar position on the subject to yours (see above.)

I'm now tempted to believe that I made such a good case for my values as displayed in that piece, that I've converted all the righties to our way of thinking.

THEY're safe from old bulls charging down the hill at them from the right, so I believe they must be keeping silence either because I've convinced them as I said, or else they don't want to seem politically incorrect, and too chicken to take a risk with the doberman sisters.

On a lighter note: Amber @ 12.30pm on the 13th: You are a mean-spirited woman, blowing his cover like that.

He wasn't just boringly scrapbooking stuff that we'd already read in the blogs, like some others used to. He brought us some good stuff from over the next hill, and ably decorated it with his own drolleries.

Good work Wyatt!

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 14, 2008 9:44 PM

I've read with some interest that many of you agree with the idea of FWB ... keep an open mind and all that. Fine .... but keep it away from RSVP, after all this is a dating site for people wanting a relationship. In the last 5 months I've met two delightful women who ended up deciding their lives were just too busy for a full on relationship so decided it was just easier to sleep with their friend and send me packing. Come on women, get real or get off RSVP.

Posted by: woodnwine at April 14, 2008 8:01 PM

TW@11.28 on 13th:
Why would anyone who's been reading these blogs as a so-called "lurker" want to blog, unless they enjoy being personally attacked for stating their opinion? The sand pit analogy is far too benign. Fortunately, there are lots of intelligent, well-educated, sophisticated and tolerant bloggers here, but there are also the angry old bulls in the paddock. They seem to spend a good deal of time waiting to charge anyone who dares challenge their less-than-liberal views, and this can make it a most unpleasant place to be at times too, would you not agree?

Posted by: hinterlandlover at April 14, 2008 3:00 PM

Happened to be picked a wrong girl, she have extravagance green thumbs, picturesque drawing of enlargement of estate milestone, a mighty that's what got to do she's doing....resources.

Posted by: aliane at April 14, 2008 1:55 PM

Posted by: thelynathdiary at April 14, 2008 12:02 AM
Good question. There are lots of women who are prepared to explore their sexuality rather than be content with the vanilla flavored one of social expectation.
I find it amusing rather than hideous.

No doubt you are familiar with this excruciating bit of canine behaviour. A male dog gatecrashes an outside function somewhere and trots around then at the key moment thrusts his sniffing nose into the crutch of a female dignitary (I think it happened to HRH somewhere). The extrapolations are straightforward.
Haha.
Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 14, 2008 12:00 PM

Resent yesterday riversong - computers are a pain but a means to an end.

Posted by: woodnwine at April 14, 2008 8:59 AM

WoodnWine and Weta - apologies for not responding to your emails yesterday - I seem to be having some trouble with my computer.

Posted by: riversong1 at April 14, 2008 5:43 AM

Marcus, What were the odds on someone like that??

Posted by: thelynathdiary at April 14, 2008 12:02 AM

Posted by: amberlight58 at April 13, 2008 12:30 PM
Go Amber.
MS xx

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 13, 2008 11:40 PM

It's what you get used to Virgil. I've lived in Vic since 78 so am well and truly used to the all nighters now. Was ok when I was just back in the west for a few days but I really did notice it when I spent longer there. Like everything else in life though, you soon adjust or adapt or whatever else you want to call it..
Cheers.."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at April 13, 2008 11:30 PM

Seems SA is a bit between WA and Vic in the shopping, we have a 24hr (almost) Coles in the city, and I think one in Kurralta Park as well, but normal trading till 9pm week nights and 5 on Sat & Sun and independents open after that.

When I was in WA it never bothered me, I just knew what was open, when it was open.

Posted by: virgil at April 13, 2008 10:59 PM

thelynathdiary at April 13, 2008 12:28 PM
Thanks for the compliment regarding my curls Chris.
OK. I've had a long association with a property out of Tatyoon - turn left at Maroona and head towards Streatham. I worked unwittingly as a black leg rouseabout on another property out of Bolac in early '76. I was paid farmhands wages and remember pocketing $78 for two weeks work.
The Dolly and Molly stories I refer to would be found in the 70's archives of The Ararat Advertiser. Even though I can throw a fleece I do not feature in any of them.
J Ward, the prison hospital for the criminally insane was closed in the early 70's. It is now a museum.
Unusually, and unless I'm encouraged I have decided to be self censorious on the canine FWB Woman's Best Friend stories.
I will however offer an equine anecdote. As she approached the important moment on first consumation, a lover of mine said "when I hit you on the side I want you to rear up and to neigh". As you do I said "pardon" and she repeated her riding instructions. I duly did as requested at the winning post. All I ever received as an explanation was "I have a horse thing"
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 13, 2008 7:50 PM

Thanks Timewarp. I did actually mean "and" in that we can still be right in our beliefs while adjusting them as more information comes to light, but "or" would have been better grammatically speaking.

And I hear you amdoingit. Those moving West I can see having a horrible time adjusting thinking they have all the time they are used to.

But we have had the referendum on it and the majority of voters don't want it. Yeah it sucks but it is done. Time to accept the umpire's decision and get on with our archaic trading hours :)

Posted by: stoic at April 13, 2008 7:31 PM

Ohla.
yes time to let Rex go to a more appreciative home. He may find a home, that will keep him warm at night ( after reading Ricardos posts) but not necessarily safe. As with Ricardos prefference they can both go in front of the tree. Rex may not be much of a cook but Ricardo not being Italiano would probably appreciate the culinary skills of Rex. then Rex may not care whether he does.

Ohla, loved your riposte, and your non offence at my previous.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at April 13, 2008 6:58 PM

Oldergent I am thinking now that Rex is looking at me amorously and that perhaps he has to go. He should now be Ricardos new traveling companion. He will keep him very safe and warm at night. He will do his business in front of the gum tree. in fact anywhere he has an urge. He is not much of a cook but he does enjoy his food.

Posted by: oohlala1 at April 13, 2008 5:25 PM

Kaz @ 9.48: I am hurt. Please do me the courtesy of being very much more specific in your criticism, so I'll know what you meant.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 13, 2008 10:12 AM

Timewarp more a comment regarding your thoughts on homosexuality is all....
Not a criticism at all just a comment........K

Posted by: auntykaz at April 13, 2008 5:10 PM

Ohlala @ 1.39 pm
Imagine how the poor dog would feel. lol
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at April 13, 2008 4:34 PM

OohLaLa

I don�t like going into personal details in public, but be assured that Her Majesty is basically interested only in regularly visiting Londinium to see if the German imposters on the throne have vacated in her favour, being of course, better entitled through Plantagent lineage to claim the Crown jewels than the descendants of Mad George. Hyacinth Bouquet III, Queen of the Colonies and all rightful dominions that once were red on your Atlas.

But when it comes to travelling this wide open land of ours, damn these descendants of Convicts and Bushrangers and their love of escaping to the Bush to flee the redcoats and the tasks assigned by Overlords- fix this, fix that, or suffer thee fifty (tongue) lashes on the triangle when I get home.

Curiously there are considerable benefits to women travelling solo to hook up with a male, basically safety considerations, although the Peter Falconio saga does demonstrate some fallacy in that approach. Conversely the male tends to get a better class of company than his boofhead mates, not always a better cook, but better company.

Just to illustrate, some blokes won�t even go behind a gum tree to defecate; a woman does.

Generation Z have no qualms who they travel with; they just pack their bags and go. The older generation of women, by contrast, are a pain in the

Posted by: richardzkruspe at April 13, 2008 3:46 PM

Stoic..I spent considerable time back over in WA nursing my father till he passed away and I never did get used to the no late trading. Was forever running out of door at night to slip off to grab a few things at the supermarket. Was a right pain in the old proverbial to not have the all night, never mind late night, trading. What about the sunday trading? Like what trading?? Made me appreciate just how lucky we are over here.
I work all hours and at times find myself arriving home in Geelong (usually from Melb) very late at night and even early hours of the morning after a late night out so it's great to be able to call in and shop enroute to home. Saves having to go back out later. Amazing how many people are out shopping in the wee hours..

Cheers..."G"

Posted by: amdoingit at April 13, 2008 2:46 PM

Amber @12.23.
Our national Sevice intakes during the 50's did not go to war, that fell on the the National Service and Regular personell during the Vietnam war.

There was a manifesto written in the mid 1800's in Russia on how to become a dictator, It basically boiled down to two necessities.
1. Disarm the people.
2. find some other method of trade & payment apart from gold.

Switch forward 150 odd years and what do we have.
1. The public are basically disarmed.
2. We have a society that largely relies on the spastic plastic.
Prognosis.
How long before some aspiring dictator decides to switch off the computers.
1 week of not eating, no guns to shoot the mongrel with, capitulation. Keep the cash.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at April 13, 2008 2:22 PM

Lynath the more I read of Marcus and his many absurd experiences the more he is looking to be one gigantic red flag blowing in the wind:))
Poor old Rex he would not do such things. I could not look at him again in the morning.
Must not stray anywhere near Lake Bolac.

Posted by: oohlala1 at April 13, 2008 1:39 PM

RichardK @ 11.30am: Thank you for sending me off to see my dying friend this arvo with a great big smile all over my dial. Needed that.

Add yourself to my "thanks for the clever comedy" post in the other blog.

Especially enjoyed 'I am spoken for." Took me back 45 years. Got a phonecall to come over to Delma's place after dinner Friday because Joan was down from teaching in the sticks, for a long weekend in Brizzy, staying briefly with her, in between nightly parties.

Walked in and was literally struck dumb. For nearly 2 hours. Joan was looking so gorgeous it literally took my breath away. Could hardly move my ribs or diaphragm.

They both wondered what was wrong with me - usually have something to say for myself. Told Delma the next day, and she was impressed. "So Mills and Boon are right" she said. "It can happen." Blissful days ...

Fast-forward 45 years - where the hell is Ms Right-Enuff? Sent out another 8 kisses yesterday, and so far only 2 replies - both knockbacks. I wait in hope.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 13, 2008 1:23 PM

Amante Ricardo, bad pong, you have a beloved and a bedmate and perhaps a better half but still you are looking for a date, a flame, a squeeze, a partner, a soulmate, a travelling companion and a Valentine, but I suppose not necessary to be all the one person?
Your lessons have taught me much these last few days:)

Posted by: oohlala1 at April 13, 2008 12:42 PM

lynath

in the days before ATM's and eftpos we spent what we had, and no more.

Imagine gambling without ATM or eftpos, people would spend all they had, then go home and eat baked beans till monday.

These days with the wonder of modern technology, people can spend all they have, then rack up massive credit card debt to finance their gambling habits.

Posted by: virgil at April 13, 2008 12:36 PM

Wow Richard!
A lot of work put into that one with some very amusing descriptions!
No more articles from the Weekend Australian have taken your fancy?

Posted by: amberlight58 at April 13, 2008 12:30 PM

Marcus, Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 12, 2008 9:09 PM

Those stories are of the type that used to appear in "Adult" movies and mags under the heading of Fantasy....
Where have you moved now the Ararat Home for the Dangerously Insane has closed?
I have had a life long association with a property not far from Lake Bolac and have not heard any such stories. Can you point us to the listing or reporting of the conviction(s)?

I think it more likely that what you heard was some sort of rumour put about by the Ararat Football team or similar in order to discredit the Lake Bolac boys....although you on the other hand do have curly hair.....

Posted by: thelynathdiary at April 13, 2008 12:28 PM

Friends with Benefits, people sneaking around screwing their friends.......seriously does anyone really give a toss...........

Posted by: iaminperth at April 13, 2008 12:27 PM

oohlala , yes it would be interesting regarding the credit card comparisons.

Some shopping centres close the smaller shops and just leave the supermarkets open all hours.
Extended shopping hours does provide a lot of employment for students, so it is helpful in some ways.
Can't imagine how we survived when physically going to the bank to get cash , with no access on the weekend was all there was. Planning and budgeting was much more important although many people still got paid with cash in an envelope!

Posted by: thelynathdiary at April 13, 2008 11:51 AM

• Friend with Benefits: A sexual partner with whom you may or may not be friend. This term implies a fear of commitment and a purely sexual, contractual relationship.
• Other useful terms on dating and relationship sites include-
• Amante: “lover” in Italian.
• Mi Amante: “my lover” in Spanish and Portuguese.
• Amore: “my love” in Italian.
• Mi Amor: “my love” in Spanish.
• Mon Amour: “my love” in French.
• Amoureux, Mon: “lover” in French.
• Bang pong: A Klingon term of endearment which is useful only for die-hard Trekkies (or if the woman you are banging, also pongs)
• Bedmate: Indicates that you sleep in the same bed and hints at other things you may do together in bed, includes teddy bears and hot water bottles
• Beloved: better call your spouse that, or you’re out
• Better Half: Indicates an adoring relationship, but can imply self-esteem issues.
• Better Quarter: that’s all she gets of the matrimonial bed; you take all the rest
• Complement: Indicates a closely jointed, interconnected relationship.
• Companion: Conveys a deep sense of monogamy and enduring love.
• Couple, They Are a: Two people in any sort of relationship. Also “an item”.
• Courtier: Slightly old term for one soliciting marriage. Conveys the image of a romantic, chivalrous lover.
• Crush: A superficial (but often powerful) attraction for someone. Infatuation.
• Darling: spouse, darle, darhle (Kath and Kim talk)
• Date: Another person with whom you who have gone on several dates. May or may not indicate a monogamous relationship; subspecies for rsvp- coffee date- the date you're having when you're not having a date
• Dear: Normal substitutions for spouse, but also acceptable substitutions for boy/girlfriend. Also refers to the cost of engagement rings
• Destiny: conveys an enduring, pre-ordained love.
• Dream: A slightly old-fashioned synonym for a crush or infatuation.
• Endeared: A sweet term for a spouse or loved one.
• We are Entwined: Indicates a closely interwoven relationship; or an inability to get out from the bed sheets
• We are Going Out: Two people dating each other.
• Heartthrob: A crush or a deeply infatuated date.
• Honey (bunch): An endearing, somewhat cutsie term for a loved one.
• Fiancé: Widely used term for a person intended to marry or become civilly united.
• Flame: A crush or a lover. Conveys a sense of passion, but a lack of permanence.
• Loved One: A sweet romantic term for your partner.
• Love: An endearing term which may be annoying to other people.
• Love of My Life: Emphasizes the permanence, deepness and intensity of your relationship.
• Lover: Conveys a more sexual relationship, may not be appropriate in all situations. eg marriages.
• Match Made in Heaven: A connected couple who are deeply enamored.
• Match made in Hell: When a connected couple get married
• Main Squeeze: Indicates a relationship, but subtly hints at an open relationship or a fear of commitment.
• Mate: Term for a spouse or loved one that hints at a solid friendship.
• Meine Liebe: “my love” in German.
• Other Half: Endearing term which conveys a more permanent relationship so entwined that you view yourselves as one entity.
• Partner: This is the most commonly used alternative, although it is ambiguous as it can refer to anything from casual dating, to a steady relationship, to marriage, to business associates, as in “I was screwed by my partner”
• I am Romantically Involved/Engaged: Indicates a romantic or sexual connection between two people who may or may not be in a formal relationship.
• Romantic Partner: More specific and tender than simply “partner”.
• I am Seeing Someone: You are happily in a dating relationship.
• Significant Other: a generic term for a boy/girlfriend or spouse;
• Soulmate: Conveys a long, deep, connected relationship. Holy Grail for rsvp-ers
• I am Spoken For: Shows to others that you are in a relationship. Also if you are dumbstruck and she has to do the talking for you
• Spouse: A generic term for a husband, wife which may also be applied to a legal union partner.
• Squeeze: A term for a more casual dating relationship; ideal for bigger girls with more to squeeze
• Steady: Substitute for boy/girlfriend. Also conveys a monogamous relationship.
• SugarBabe: a babe who knows where the sugar container is on a coffee date
• Sweetheart: A bit old-fashioned, but a cute alternative for boy/girlfriend.
• I am Taken: Indicates that you are in a relationship.
• True Love: An enduring term for deeply connected, engaged or married couples.
• Valentine: A sweet term for a boy/girlfriend, crush or a date, especially pertinent for Valentine’s Day or a sweet way of asking for a first date; also how to annoy a Sheila by sending an rsvp kiss asking her to be your valentine

Posted by: richardzkruspe at April 13, 2008 11:30 AM

Stoic @ 10.23am wrote "it is only by hearing alternate opinions and questioning them and working up a logical defence of our opinions that we become secure in our own and" (but I think you meant 'or') "can make adjustments, when we see that something we believe doesn't hold up."

Thunderous applause from me for that philosophical gem. And I had been delighted by your fair-dinkum initial political post at 5.58pm on the 11th.

Others had picked up my initial post at 5.42pm on the 7th, but you cranked up the debate to a much higher level.

..................................................................

I tried to follow your lead and do the same thing for the current sexuality debate, with my wide-angle thought-starter at 4.34pm on the 12th.

But it seems that sexuality is a completely logic-tight subject, where people don't dare to take out their prejudices for or against any particular style and examine them, in case they might then find that they need to "make adjustments (to our values) when we see that something we believe doesn't hold up." Which would be scary for some.

I'd hoped for a useful intelligent reasoned debate, with people looking at my construct and discussing the ramifications of different opposing attitudes to my various points.

Maybe (like politics for WnW), it's all too hard.

If so, I'm disappointed with you lot, because I believe that that attitude springs from blind knee-jerk defence of your current prejudices. Which is not growthful for you, or for the world.

Who'll join me in getting real about this subject, which, after all, is why we're on RSVP?

Let's pretend we're not in Afghanistan or Utah, take our head out of the sand and see what happens!

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 13, 2008 11:28 AM

Thanks amberlight.

I love playing in the sandpit and let's be honest - it is only by hearing alternate opinions and questioning them and working up a logical defence of our opinions that we become secure in our own and can make adjustments when we see that something we believe doesn't hold up.

oohlala1:

I know what we are missing out on over here. More than once I have had a tv/dvd/computer monitor etc go bust on me on a Saturday night (and usually always before a public holiday Monday) and it has annoyed me greatly I couldn't pop round the corner and get a replacement.

The last referendum on trading hours here was only a few years ago. I voted yes, most voted no, and so to my mind that should be the end of it.

No it wasn't the result I wanted, but as I said in a previous post, I have a real problem with shopping centres requiring the stores inside to open for those extended hours (and apparently so did a majority of business owners) regardless of the wishes of the individual owners.

The only politicians we need to change (on this issue anyway) are those that would keep bringing this issue up.

Cheers

Posted by: stoic at April 13, 2008 10:23 AM

WnW @ 9am: And then you vote how the newspaper tells you to?

But how do you choose which paper to believe?

The Manchester Guardian has a good reputation ... better than News of the World, I believe.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 13, 2008 10:19 AM

VDU @ 9.45am: Yes, just teasing you.

Kaz @ 9.48: I am hurt. Please do me the courtesy of being very much more specific in your criticism, so I'll know what you meant.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 13, 2008 10:12 AM

Posted by: misterygirl at April 12, 2008 12:00 PM

Wake up girl ..... I used to think this too but was sadly mistaken. Women it seems have certainly changed their outlook and approach to love and sex. Men ..... beware.

Richardwhatever .... good on you for trying to get this blog back on topic and injecting some new ideas. Politics ..... I leave that to the newspaper thanks.

Posted by: woodnwine at April 13, 2008 9:00 AM

Stoic the shops are open here in melbourne every day and late on Thursday and Friday and with many supermarkets and McDonalds 24/7.
Many mothers and workers are doing their weekly shop in the wee small hours. What you are missing out on. Best to change your politicians:)) It would be interesting to see if there is more credit card debt in these places with all this trading.

Posted by: oohlala1 at April 13, 2008 8:17 AM

WoodnWine, I seem to be having trouble with my computer - could you please re-send the email you sent me last night (12 April 7.29pm)? Thanks kindly.

Posted by: riversong1 at April 13, 2008 7:53 AM

Hi Timewarp,
I THINK I agree with most of what you wrote!

I have really enjoyed the very recent debate.

Stoic, your first post (for a good few months?) scared me for a while, but your responses to mine and others' points clarified your position and I can understand and respect your opinion on a lot of things, even if I don't completely agree!

Marcus as usual I enjoyed your contributions and opinions (particularly as they are quite close to my own!)

OG,
Well, we may never agree on a lot of things, particularly moral and social issues!!
But as someone who went to war on behalf of our country, you deserve my respect and appreciation (even if we NEVER actually agree!!)
Same with Timewarp, although his opinions are a lot closer to my heart!!

Kaz,
Excellent explanation on what I believe the majority of unions are about.
My 22 yo son (who I always thought would be very much a conservative!) is a Union Rep at his workplace at a large winery in the Barossa.
He felt compelled to do so after what happened to him when he was injured while still only a casual worker, the company's response to workers after complaints were made about chemicals (later found to be carcinogenic) that were being used that were affecting his fellow workers, and the noises made about an impending AWA and cuts to worker's conditions.
Sometimes big (and small) companies need to be reminded of their obligations!

To everyone else who contributed great stuff.
So political opinion is not such a terrible thing to debate as long as we respect each other's right to their opinion, (even if we don't agree!) and don't become too personal!!

The "sand pit" isn't really such a scary place after all :)

Posted by: amberlight58 at April 13, 2008 12:33 AM

Kaz, right again on both points...

I often don't leave work till after 6.00 or 7.00 at night and would be stuffed if the shops shut at 5.30!!! Remember the old days when the shops shut here at 5.30 on weeknights and noon on a Saturday? Times have changed to accommodate the working Mums - thank goodness!!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at April 12, 2008 9:54 PM

Zoiks, where l am supermarkets are open til midnight every night.

And yes, Virgil, the Weagles are headed for a mighty shellacking at this stage of the game.......

Timewarp, a little tolerance goes a long way my friend.................K

Posted by: auntykaz at April 12, 2008 9:48 PM

Bill, nice to be back - you've caught me out on a technicality, but you are indeed correct. There are many things that I wouldn't do that I would indeed condemn others for - murder, rape, pedophilia, domestic abuse etc

I was referring in the more general sense to intimate expressions of consensual adult sexuality, but I think you know that :-)

Posted by: victoriadownunder at April 12, 2008 9:45 PM

Merryl Merino eh? Dolly the Dorset? What about Rommel the German shepherd?
Pedophilia, hebephilia, even taboos are understandable. Why are the taboos also so strongly held against animals?
Sheep stories (and the odd bestiality prosecution) were common when I lived in rural, wool growing Ararat. For some reason a lot of them emanated from a place called Lake Bolac.
Friends With Benefits obviously has to include womens best friend. I have had a couple of personal experiences and the benefit of reliable anecdotes to now raise a cocked brow at girls who have close relationships with their large male dogs. ;-]
Cheers Marquis

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 12, 2008 9:09 PM

Kaz
shops open at 11am is SA on Sunday
supermarkets stay open till 9pm weeknights
6am to 5pm Saturday

Posted by: virgil at April 12, 2008 8:55 PM

Nope, Kaz.

Shops close here promptly at 5:30pm on weeknights and 5pm on Saturday (except for late night trading night - Thurs in the burbs, Fri in the city - when the shops close at 9pm)

Posted by: stoic at April 12, 2008 8:41 PM

VDU @ 8.03pm: Welcome back!

But I disagree with you. There are a lot of things on my 4.34pm list that I wouldn't do either - but I'd certainly condemn those who do. And I did.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 12, 2008 8:24 PM

We may all be adults VDU, but methinks that some act in rather a childish manner........
So Stoic and Virg, aren't the shops open late in WA and SA???
Not til 12 midnight??
What, they shut after 11am on a Sunday??
God, l would never get any shopping done if that was the case here...............K

Posted by: auntykaz at April 12, 2008 8:18 PM

Thanks Kaz. I was starting to think I'd done half a day's really hard work (posted at 4.34pm) all for nothing. Which would be a pity, with such an important and emotive subject.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 12, 2008 8:13 PM

Well said Kaz - as adults, we are entitled to make our own choices and be respected as fellow human beings. There are plenty of things I'd never do but I'd never condemn those that would...

Bill, that was an epic post!!

Posted by: victoriadownunder at April 12, 2008 8:03 PM

Timewarp, that may hve taken all arvo to write but sure did my head in....
I am neither a homophile or homophobe, but believe that sexual preference between consenting adults is the the business of those involved.
That is sure to crack troyboy up and may possibly bring a few others out of the woodwork so to speak.
Empty your minds of thoughts of "dirtyness" and "unnatural" and see it for what it is. .........................K

Posted by: auntykaz at April 12, 2008 7:40 PM

i like daylight saving in the spring and early summer till the end of Feb.

It is quite handy to be able to go to Coles and the big stores up to 9pm on weeknights nights and on a Sunday after 11.00am.

Looks like the Eagles are going to get flogged tonight.

Posted by: virgil at April 12, 2008 7:29 PM

Virgil, I will be voting no on daylight savings.

If it were only Dec-Feb, then I would give it more thought but as it is, March is too f'ng dark to be getting up an hour earlier in the mornings.

It has ended now but I am sick of getting up at what is really 5am to get to work. Other than that I didn't mind it and would take to task the idiots going on about fading curtains and the like. If you are going to complain about it, complain for a real reason.

Not too fussed either way.

Similarly for extended trading hours. I would very much like to be able to do some of my shopping on Sundays but could sympathise with shop owners in the big shopping centres who would be forced to open for extended hours even if they didn't want to.

I think the option should be there for shops to open whenever they want, but if those store owners voted against it and being forced to open - well again I am not too fussed and to my mind, the issue has been decided and should be dead and buried.

Posted by: stoic at April 12, 2008 6:30 PM

Oh wow. What a devastating riposte by blondebiped, using a typically lazy left wing technique of "Fox News is bad because I don't agree with it"

How can anyone argue with logic like that? It must have taken him/her seconds to come up with it.

I could retort to blondebiped in kind with "Stop watching the Communist News Network or the Communist Broadcasting Service" (get it - because I don't like their bias so I will imply they are evil communists and/or stupid) but instead I will try to implore them to consider some independent thought and inquiry. I don't know about blondie but I don't need my opinions force fed to me by television.

Fox, CNN, CBS - they are all as sensationalistic and unprofessional as each other. From what I can gather C-SPAN is the only media organisation that is interested in more than grabbing 10 second sound bytes and reporting that as news.

The only difference between Fox and CNN and CBS and NBC et al is their particular bias, with Fox being the most open about theirs. Still doesn't make them any better or worse.

And Kaz - not related but infinitely more entertaining I reckon :)

Posted by: stoic at April 12, 2008 6:22 PM

Stoic

What do u think of daylight saving in WA?

I know it ghot knocked back after 3 referendums.

I dont know what happened in the rest of the country?
maybe some can enlighten me on that?

If stoic u are saying that it doesnt seem right that they will keep on trialling it and having referendums till the yes vote gets up, well they probably will.

What about extended shopping hours in WA?

That got the knockback, although my experience of it in SA is that it hasnt faded the curtains yet. On Sunday shops dont open till 11am, presumably to allow the faithful to attend Church. Although if attending Church you would have to get your skates on to be at work by 11.00am

Posted by: virgil at April 12, 2008 6:03 PM

blondebiped at April 12, 2008 4:47 PM

I reckon even good 'ol Rupert Murdoch blushes at some of the political content on Fox. I'm sure he looks up from the advertising revenue bottom line sometimes.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 12, 2008 6:01 PM

Hey Stoic, put down the remote and slowly back away from Fox News. That's dangerous.

Posted by: blondebiped at April 12, 2008 4:47 PM

Well there you go stoic, one thing l totally believe in the workplace - solidarity, as united we are strong. Don't employers HATE that??.
My current employer was not paying a group of us an allowance as middle managers. They were manipulating the wording of the award to avoid paying what was a very clearly defined benefit.
We held several meetings with HR about it and yes they ultimately paid it.....backdated 12 months. Silly boogers should have just paid it in the first place
Anyway, so not related to the topic it aint funny.............................K

Posted by: auntykaz at April 12, 2008 4:35 PM

Homophobia/ homophilia: Everyone's right, from their own standpoint. Or they'd have to take their deepest values out and scrutinise and re-evaluate them. Which can be very unsettling, if you're honest about the results.

Here are a few arguments which may suggest what my values are in this whole area:

1) Sex is often about power, and power is often about sex. Go see current movie "The Kite Runner" before you dare to contribute to the current discussion. I gave it 5.1/2 out of 5. Take a hanky and a good friend, and plan a long sleep that night, to recover from the emotional ordeal.

Bloody do it anyway, to help qualify yourself to be a voting citizen of the world. (Tut tut! I'm getting passionate! Cool it Bill, and get back into your left brain.)

..............................................................

2) I start my thinking with an initial classifying question: Does A hope to enjoy joyful consensual enthusiastic sexual activity with B, where ensuring that B has at least an equally good time and happy memories as A, is a key goal for A?

If so, A is usually motivated by love, and if B has the same attitude, the resultant act can be called lovemaking, whether they're in a marriage, an informal relationship or just FWB.

And I for one couldn't care less if it's 2 women, 2 men, one of each, or a couple of hermaphrodites. Their unselfish love/ friendship, shown both in and out of the bedroom, makes them both happier, and the world a better place.

Who am I to presume to deny them hetero or homo happiness with someone that their genes - yes their genes - and/or their conditioning point them towards?

I leave that to third parties like churches and nations who seek to increase both their income and power bases by requiring everyone to hurry up and marry the opposite gender, and then breed unrestrainedly.

Finally, in this world of terrifying exponential overpopulation, the more couples who are vasectomied, tubes-tied, contraceptive-using or post menopausal - or same-sex of any age, the better for us all.

................................................................

3) If A is wanting sex with B for A's benefit only, without caring much whether B enjoys it hugely, slightly or not much at all, then I classify A in the 21st century as a selfish lover, worthy only to go to a brothel or gigolo for what I call a f**k, and pay there dearly for A's lack of a loving nature.

Or to spend a lot on a gold-digger/ toyboy, which I see as the same thing done informally, ie. without a printed pricelist.

And if that applies to well over half the men in our society, tough. They don't deserve to be here in RSVP, looking for freebies they don't plan to earn.

Unless like some, their profile honestly reads something like "Be nice - I'm rich" or "Looking for mattress for 4-month overseas holiday, all expenses paid." That's not a bad offer, if you're not too choosy a mattress.

.................................................................

4) Unloving cheapskates are referred to the nearest sex shop, for some free-to-use DIY gear, or if they're too tight even for that, to Mrs Palmer.

................................................................

5) Next classification has power as the primary motivation, not sex.

A wants the sex mainly to humiliate or at least subjugate B, and the f**king is a fringe benefit - the chosen modus operandum (way it's done).

Some antagonism is involved, and usually some cruelty.

For me, the key is B's attitude.

B might welcome it, eg. if it reassures B's damaged-child predominent ego state (Games People Play, Dr Eric Berne) that someone is actually noticing B, and prepared to spend time playing together on an ongoing basis.

Unhealthy stuff bordering on S and M, but if B believes she is the better for it, and her emotional state does not deteriorate, I'm not going to interfere.

But if B hates it and wishes it would stop, but can't make it stop, we're into sex slavery to some degree. And I'm dead against that, whether it's homo sodomy in Afghanistan, or hetero incest in Toorak.

6) The above presupposes that the 2 sexual partners are from the same generation, give or take a bit - or take quite a lot if she's pink aged 65, paying him (brown aged 25) to stir her with a satisfyingly large copper-stick - or he's brown aged 65, paying her (yellow, aged 25) to try to breathe some life back into his bellrope.

................................................................

7) On to paederphilia. People really go off pop about it. Just about everybody does. And I wonder why? Here are some possible reasons:

* Sex is dirty. Necessary for procreation, but you should bite the blanket and think of England. Childhood should be a time of innocence, so we need to insulate our innocent children even from knowledge of sex. Perhaps till their wedding night, to seriously sabotage it.

I vividly remember at 9 seeing my one-year old younger brother crawling after our neighbour's same-age daughter, rising up behind her and humping her like mad through 2 nappies. Their mothers giggled their heads off, and mine said "They know from the start, don't they?"

* Receiving sexual attention from an adult when a child, will give the child a wrong idea about sexuality, and scar its psyche for life.

I clearly remember sexual advances from a woman about 70 when I was just 2, from a man in his 50s when 6, a same-age boy at 15 and a same-age young man at 22. Then 2 women in their 60s, when I was too. (And from my wife once - led to the destiny-destroying 3rd child.)

At the time (including when I was 2), I recognised every one of them as type 3 above - they wanted to use me for their own gratification. And each time I coolly chose whether to go along with it or not.

The result? All of it combined to give me such an abhorrance of incest that I wouldn't even change my baby daughters' nappies, let alone bath them - and such an appreciation of randy women that I wish the next one would hurry up and find me, so I can get back to my favourite hobby of winding her up till she goes off a few times.

* Sex is only for deeply-loving same-age, opposite-gender married couples who want children, and the further away from that you get, the more depraved the "perpetrator".

So July-December is bad, and he's a "dirty old man" or she's a witch, for stealing their partner away from the breeding paddock.

Dike is bad for the same reason - they ought to be bearing children to 2 men. (Interestingly, Queen Victoria enjoyed being rogered so much that she personally removed females from the anti-homo Act that caught Oscar Wilde. Couldn't believe they'd actually get anything enjoyable out of it. Little did she know ...)

* Puftas are even worse, because they're not only removing one another from the breeding paddock - you can imagine the disgusting way that they do it. Yuck!

I went on a Dabblers bus day trip last month, and this is the haiku I wrote at our mid-morning comfort stop:

No Hiding Place

Caboolture park toilet.
Door lock burst inwards
to get at the contents.

OG would relate to that.

I just hope the fugitive was an adult and that it was one-onto-one.

* Paedophiles are the worst, because of all the above.

I classify paedophiles into 2 groups:

a) Molest children. Incest by a stranger. Yuck yuck yuck.

b) Sit at their computers and look at pornography (which is Loser City, whether you're using Mrs Palmer or a Sex shop contraption, and whether what turns you on is Brigitte Bardot, a Cleo centrefold, Merryl the Merino or a naked child.)

The worry is when you decide to get a life, and actually go do it in 3 dimensions, instead of ineffectually looking at it in two, in your stick-book or on your monitor.

That's more than enough from me. Took me most of the arvo.

PLEASE TELL ME SOME MORE OF THE RELEVANT FACTS OR EMOTIONS.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 12, 2008 4:34 PM

Fair point Kaz, but I don't like people not joining and getting the benefits.

Myself, if I ever got into a situation where I thought I needed representation (in my current job) I would have held my nose and paid my dues for the year and called the union in.

I never would have had the union come to my side and not pay membership.

But I am principled like that :)

Posted by: stoic at April 12, 2008 4:18 PM

Thanks for proving my point about selective left wing outrage. Howard is bad to saying they threw their children overboard (which they did when they scuttled their ship - only one place for everyone to go when the ship is sinking) to show his toughness on border security for the election but Rudd is ok for saying he and his family were evicted from the farm he grew up on (which they weren't) to show how he did it so tough and is an Everyman for the election.

Neither of those birds fly.

And again, I had a post that didn't get up about leftists their inability to accept decisions they don't like - eg the Republic debate and I also mentioned Daylight Savings here in WA.

There are many valid criticisms of the Howard government (like taking too long to sack those guilty of indiscretions) but this whole AWB affair was put to bed. Same with leftist and the 2000 election in the US. Gore lost by every single count they did and yet leftists are still trying to argue the outcome.

Though I would have hoped the best thing to come out of it was to show that even government based monopolies are a bad idea.

Time to move on. If leftists would put the same effort into scrutinising this government as they do still harping on about the last one, I could not be happier.

You are right however in that liberty is there provided it does no harm. I don't have the liberty to break into your house and steal your stuff. I don't have the liberty to drive however I want and risk injury to you or others.

However, just because you might have kids and want taxpayer funded childcare, or parental leave or whatever, the government not providing that is not doing harm. Stealing that money off me to provide it (and to give as a gift for having kids - I'm looking at you, Baby Bonus) is doing harm to me because I need that money for my mortgage and rates and bills. I know how better to spend my money than the government. If other people don't know how to spend their money well too bad for them. That is for them with their freedom to deal with, not me or mine. I don't demand anyone else pays for any of my things, why do leftists seem to have no problem with demanding that I pay for other people's things?

Freedom means the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.

And quite frankly how dare you imply I (or anyone else) will be irresponsible with my carte blanche economics and liberty.

Now don't get me wrong. Some taxes are inevitable. I like having a military to protect the borders and police and customs and courts to keep society moving. I like having maintained roads that are safe and enable goods to be transported where they need to be. I like having my garbage collected each week and like having my sewerage lines flowing away from my house.

I have no problem contributing for any of that but most other things I consider an optional (at best) extra.

Not to stand on the common ground for a bit - education in those communities will be excellent and is the only long term, permanent fix. The intervention can only be short term until things can get back on track so the children can dedicate themselves to learning and not have any of the other horrors to deal with.

I can freely admit that I had no idea how bad things were in some of these Aborigine communities. I was completely ignorant, much like the majority of the population I think. Now is the time to start doing something to turn the situation around. Something all Australians should agree with.

Cheers

Posted by: stoic at April 12, 2008 4:10 PM

Posted by: oldergent at April 12, 2008 2:34 PM

OG, this is why most of the PC brigade are also lefties, in this instance the generalisation accurate, so personal opinion is welcome so long as you agree with their views. For goodness sakes OG don't mention any negative aboriginal issues as you are sure to be branded a racist!

Wishful, men generally have no problem with two women doing their thing as we harbour the fantasy of an invitation to participate.....yee haa

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at April 12, 2008 3:02 PM

oldergent at April 12, 2008 2:34 PM

What about male gerontophilia Ogre?
That is the abominable practise that some young women have of grooming, seducing and having sex with ageing men.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 12, 2008 2:55 PM

Hey Stoic, no problem with sitting in on disputes between employees and management on my part, and would certainly not expect payment for it either.
Some staff are intimidated when having to deal with management and have the right under our award to have someone with them.Dealing with manamgement is not an issue for me and give far better than l get in terms of debate / discussion.
One thing l have learnt is that managers generally do not like to be confronted with someone who knows their rights and will try to call the bluff of those who are unfamiliar with those rights.

Having dealings with an billionaire businessman in a major company has given me an excellent grounding for handling myself in such situations...................k

Posted by: auntykaz at April 12, 2008 2:49 PM

Hinterland.
You see yourself as a liberated, modernista espousing your brand of equality and attacks anybody that dares to voice an opinion contrary to yours, go back to my reply to amber 11/4@1.58pm I clearly stated what I thought. Hinter you are a homophile and I am a homophobe, you enjoy watching the freak's parade and glory in that sort of thing, I would not be opposed to them banning it, nor would I walk 10 yards to see it. But try to explain, if a male engages in sex with a young boy how he is not a homosexual, and also a paedohpile, you try to distinguish between the two abominable acts to justify your position. I will live very happily with my position on the subject, and let every other like minded male on these blogs judge you, You are welcome to make your bed with the rest who agree with your "principles"?

Wishfull you may like to check that out too. I made the statement that Lesbians pose no threat to men, Please give me the post I made on the "different". you have gone off on a tangent never esposused by me, into your idea of what you find acceptable,so should we remove the words Immoral, moral, from the language, sure to make the PC exponents happy.
You classify Homophobia a disease, I consider Homophilia a moral disease.
This is also a public forum, so in what sense are you not "foisting" your opinion as you claim I am. That you are also showing your bigotry would be a fair comment. Pots should never call kettles black.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at April 12, 2008 2:34 PM

Stoic.
I'm happy to acknowledge that Howard sacked ministers when the light became to intense. These were blokes who should have been scrutinised from the outset and tossed. That is the point of Rudd's probity requirements.
Howard didn't resign, or sack his henchmen Downer and Vaile when it became quite obvious that his government was complicit in undermining a UN aid project the 'oil for food' and thereby supporting financially a regime he had pledged to overthrow by force.
Rudd being thrown off the farm, and whatever 'thrown' means, has much more creedence than Howard's jihad on refugees throwing their children overboard to make a major election issue.

My simple point about the apology was that it was an attempt by the government to acknowledge what was very widely regarded past injustice. Logically it can have no bearing on future developments. I am apolitical about this.
As a matter of interest I have visited a few permit only communities in Central Australia and also been to Kalumburu in NW WA. You alluded to this place but did not mention it by name. I have friends and aquaintances in shades from white to black up there and have a reasonable idea of what goes on. As usual there is only one thing that can lift the situation. Education. The means for it to be delivered have to be the major long term strategy.
Re the left being "the antithesis of individual liberty, economic freedom, and personal responsibility. The left today is the surrendering of individual rights to the grotesque monster of government."
Err Hello. Individual liberty in your 'liberal' definition says provided that freedom does no harm. Giving people carte blanche economically and in terms of their personal responsibility is highly unlikely to result in an egalitarian society. Australia, indisputably has amongst the highest indicators for social health because we have systems that check and balance social responsibility against a still very high level of freedom.
The USA which has greater levels of 'individual freedom' (for some) is quite disfunctional in many ways directly because of this. I'm sure you are not advocating anarchy and would rather live in a setting where you had, say, basically free medical care because you surrender a few 'liberties' to your grotesque monster.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 12, 2008 2:02 PM

I hope you don’t bugger OohLaLa. It is extremely annoying.
In the 14th century, a bug was “an object of terror, usually an imaginary one”, and may have been derived from a Welsh word bwg (hobgoblin or scarecrow).
By the 17th century, the meaning of “insect” had superseded the earlier meaning, though that sense has persisted in words like bugbear and bogyman.
Other senses include “to annoy”, as in “certain bloggers bug me.”
From this you could assume, came bugger, one of whose meanings is “nuisance” (fill in bloggers names in the enclosed box (…)
But despite this apparent connection, the words are apparently, etymologically unrelated.
Bugger has a variety of other meanings, as noun, verb and interjection. These include “sodomite”, and “damn”.
The word “bugger” got into English via 14th century French (bougre, from Latin Bulgarus) as the name of a sect of heretics who had come from Bulgaria in the 11th century. It later was used to describe the Albigensian heretics and even heretics in general, especially those suspected of indulging in “abominable practices”.
A derived phrase well known to Australians is bugger-all — meaning “absolutely nothing” (1930s). Today reams and reams of blogs are filled with bugger all.
Rumpole of the Bailey:
The Judge addresses the Accused: “Do you have anything to say before I pass sentence?”
Rumpole (under his breath:) “Bugger-all, My Lord.”
The Judge (addressing Counsel for the Prosecution:) “What did he say?”
“Ahem. He said ‘Bugger-all’, My Lord.”
“That’s strange. I could have sworn I saw his lips move.”
So, OohLaLa, ask whether his lips are moving.

Posted by: richardzkruspe at April 12, 2008 1:56 PM

Thankyou for the correction laughsandtalks.
You know your stuff.

Posted by: enrepres at April 12, 2008 1:32 PM

Or Troy from this ESL lady it could have read- I dont bugger:))

Posted by: oohlala1 at April 12, 2008 12:45 PM

And thanks Kaz

And I agree that union membership should be a choice. Yeah it is not right that you had to sit in on non-member negotiations for nothing. Perhaps the union could set up a "negotiating fee" at a commercial rate for those non-members who then decide they want someone sitting in. They don't have to join but the union rep - i.e you in your case, would still get compensated for your time.

Just a thought but that strikes me infinitely better and fairer than any sort of compulsion.

In my current job I don't have the right to negotiate my agreement with my employer individually but thankfully I am not forced to join the union and they have no right to steal any funds off me - not yet anyway.

Plus they have proven themselves pretty useless. They were all fire and brimstone "Vote NO on the upcoming agreement a few years back - whatever it was. Vote no" (and I was going to because it was a shitty proposal) and then just before the actual voting period began suddenly the union decides it will vote yes - much to the chagrin of many of its members.

However I am looking at changing jobs very shortly and I will absolutely be joining the union in my new job. I have family members in that union and they are well supported. That is a union that actually seems more concerned with its members than with political power - something I can't say for the union at my current place of employment.

Posted by: stoic at April 12, 2008 12:42 PM

Did you get it....don't give a bugger.....haha I crack myself up!!!

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at April 12, 2008 12:32 PM

Posted by: hinterlandlover at April 12, 2008 7:06 AM

Yep, goes to show people love a freak show.
I don't want to go anywhere near the homosexual thing, especially when the topis is FWB, eeeuuuwww however it is very trendy these days and those who wish to be seen as 'current' espouse it as normal. Well, until more blokes are boinking blokes than are boinking women it 'ain't normal. It is gross, should be kept in the closet between consenting grubs and go ahead, call me homophobic, I don't a bugger.
Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at April 12, 2008 12:31 PM

enrepres at April 12, 2008 9:37 AM
Gareth Evans

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 12, 2008 12:30 PM

Yeah but Marcus - since when does time to enact policies translate to the right to lie and not be scrutinised?

You raise some valid points ministerial responsibility but seem to miss the point that they were eventually sacked. Time will tell if Rudd is so keen to sack his ministers and I think given the union influence on the party, he is not going to have that ability.

Where is your criticism of Rudd's staff abusing and threatening various journalists over his lies about being thrown off the farm as a child and the fake ANZAC service?

So far this current government has not shown they are any better than the previous one. Why the selective outrage?

As for Bin Laden - sorry but left wing lies, innuendos and baseless conspiracy theories do not count as evidence. Bin Laden could irreparably damage the US by saying they gave him money. He hasn't - must be his deep friendship for Bush right?. And I believe his comment about never taking money from the US was made around the USS Cole incident in 2000 - well before Sept 11 and before Bush became president.

And indeed with an election coming up, I can't think of a better climate for him to do it.

Now I did not explain myself re the intervention and apology properly - I will clarify and you will see you have proven my point admirably.

When I heard about the government intervention, I was horrified. Governments going in and taking control like that? No way.

However, then the stories started coming about how bad things really were. I dated a woman for awhile who had been out to and worked in those settlements and heard the horror stories from her about the conditions.

Then we had the case here in WA where ten people were arrested in one of these settlements for child molestation. The people arrested were most of the town council/elders, the truant officer, the police liasion officer, a teacher - basically everyone in a position of authority was in on it. Those children had nowhere to go and nobody to report to. And thanks to the permit system, they remained closed off from outside scrutiny.

I began to change my mind. It is a blight on our supposed enlightened society that we allow those sorts of conditions to exist and do nothing about them. And it was the NT government doing absolutely nothing with the report on how bad things were that finally prompted the Howard government to start acting.

Now I am sure you would remember the case in Queensland where the judge ruled that the nine year old abuse victim "probably agreed" to be gang raped. What is not so well known is that before that incident, after some earlier abuse, she was removed from that environment and placed with a foster family. Then some snivelling left wing bureaucrats took her from that family saying "We fear for another Stolen Generation" and so she was sent back and raped again - all because of the lie of the Stolen Generation.

Now thanks to Rudd saying 'Sorry we removed children from such horrible conditions. We won't do it again', and the backing away from the intervention and reinstating the permit system (gee I wish I could have a system to keep people I don't want out of my suburb) another generation of Aborigines are going to grow up in those conditions. All thanks to worthless symbolism.

Now a bunch of morally bankrupt leftists from around the world having a big group toss session about how good our moral standing is by making such a worthless gesture at a very real cost does not make it so.

Indeed if those sorts are saying how good we are, then that only proves to me that we have taken a huge step back.

And as far as I am concerned there is no welcome move to the left. The left today is the antithesis of individual liberty, economic freedom, and personal responsibility. The left today is the surrendering of individual rights to the grotesque monster of government.

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."

Posted by: stoic at April 12, 2008 12:13 PM

FWB we all know that women are not that easy with this term...most of them make love, and for men its just sex....different stuff. About 4 years ago i met a guy in here i thought he was looking for something serious as me, big mistake, without even noticed it, i became his FWB, even if he knew that in every single sexual encounter i was leaving my heart with him, this didnt make any difference, the only reason to him to rang me was just sex, and nothing more than that, i wasn't happy about it but i couldnt stop my feelings to develop, sorprisely one day i woke up and refused to kept going like that, i realise i deserve better, dont get me wrong he's still in my heart but he cant use me whenever he feel like it, NO MORE ..i would love to tell to all women out there, open your eyes and never let nobody playing for a fool.
Love yourself thats the key.
Dora

Posted by: misterygirl at April 12, 2008 12:00 PM

Wow...when did friends with benefits, ie. bonking buddies turn into a political debate. Great to see you firing up on all cylinders Stoic. Such insight from one so young :)

OG...I have NO idea how you can equate homosexuality with paedolphilia. They are vastly different, one being a sexual preference between consenting adults, the other based on victimisaton and control, a sense of power if you like, over an innocent child. Paedophiles do not purely target boys so how can it be even considered homosexuality? Homophobia is a very nasty disease and one you should get over, each to their own without the likes of you, a generational gap maybe, fausting your views upon the masses.

Odd how you see lesbians as being "different" to homosexual men. Why is it any different - still same sex couples?

Oh well..I suppose difference is what makes the world an interesting place, however, there is little room for bigotry.

Posted by: wishfulthinker03 at April 12, 2008 10:58 AM

Remember Gareth Brown? He had a FWB
What about Cheryl Kernot? She also had a FWB.

Posted by: enrepres at April 12, 2008 9:37 AM

I do have many friends who are bonkers so perhaps I am heading towards having FWB.
I may even have Friends who Blog.
I know from experience that many young Aussies also go overseas to London and Europe to travel around hitting on all the loccal girls in the hopes of a bonk at the honkey tonks. This has been happening for many years and not likey to stop.
Funny thng is that these young people dont count what they do as being quite real. It happened overseas so you can forget your morals from home and it is open season on the local girls. Noone is looking over there to tell you it is wrong. They get the travel bug.
I'm beginning to think after all this reading that Friends with Benefits is just a politer name for casual sex but not SWS sex with strangers.

Posted by: oohlala1 at April 12, 2008 8:49 AM

The term “friend with benefits” appears to be of fairly recent origin.

A lot of subdivisions, as witness my attempt to accumulate a few, have appeared since.

Same with the term “bonk.”

The word can be traced to 1975

It’s use in the context of “to hit” appears to be dated from as early as 1919.

Then “to bang or to bump” from about 1960.

Then to have sexual intercourse, first appeared, it would seem, in 1975, where a reference appeared in a football magazine to some girl named Rita bonking or having sexual intercourse with the entire Aston Villa football team.

There is a school of thought that opines that “bonk” was corrupted from “honk” as in “honky tonk” but the earlier use of hit (later “hitting upon someone”) then bang (“banging a woman”) appears a more natural progression.

It is now said that Young Britons avoid any contact with local culture when abroad and concentrate on bonking broads, booze and brawling

The term “to bonk" should be distinguished from “bonkers” which means, basically "crazy."

The term “bonkers” seems to have first appeared in 1957 as British slang, perhaps from an earlier naval slang meaning "slightly drunk" (1948), or from the notion of a thump on the head.

Posted by: richardzkruspe at April 12, 2008 7:18 AM

OG @ 4.30pm: Lived in Sydney for 25 years, know Oxford Street well, worked nearby for a time. Often went to watch the Mardi Gras parade, along with hundreds of thousands of other Sydneysiders.

Posted by: hinterlandlover at April 12, 2008 7:06 AM

stoic at April 11, 2008 10:44 PM
The Australian electorate has held the government accountable, by removing it recently.
The new government has a different mandate and is entitled to a reasonable amount of time to settle and implement their policies.
I'm not sure who sets the standards for accountability in your mind but the first term of the Howard government was remarkable for the number of ministers sacked for breaches of guidelines and corrupt behaviour. Howard himself later set new standards for lying (remember the 'lying rodent' attack by Brandis?) and deceiving us and attacking and intimidating public servants over the Tampa affair. He was pilloried by people from his own party for the lack of liberalism in his approach
Without going into lengthy detail of the last federal governments transgressions, if the current mob only have to better their predecessor's behaviour, accountability should be a breeze.
BTW. The Rudd apology had no connection to the previous governments somewhat gimicky intervention. It has allowed Australia to start to regain some of the moral standing in the world we once had.
Bin Laden. Plenty of evidence that he was a recipient of US largesse directly and indirectly. Their agencies policy of plausible deniability is a coverall. BL is not going to admit receiving it in the current climate.

oldergent at April 11, 2008 11:21 PM
Ogre. Costello is another swinging Liberal carcass. Not yet maggoty and unlike Howard still with his seat. He is now seen as a pathetic weakling by his party, because he did not have the ticker to take the leadership. Your mate Keating had the balls to roll Hawke in the same situation.
Fraser was much more in the Menzies mould than Howard, who he hated. I'd rather a Fraserite with no pants than a Costello with no testicles. If Turnbull does get elected as leader perhaps the party will once again become liberal and we will see a welcome shift to the left across the whole Australian spectrum.
Cheers Marcus

Posted by: laughsandtalks at April 12, 2008 5:21 AM

Oh and by the way Stoic....so good to see you back....................K

Posted by: auntykaz at April 12, 2008 12:20 AM

Stoic, some years ago l was a Union Rep at the company l worked for.
We had most emloyees as members AMWU it was, and when it came to re negotiating our EBA's those who were non union members got every benefit that we got.

Now not sure about the ALP in the last election, but you most certainly cannot have union representation without being a member of a union. They won't even talk to you and rightly so in my opinion.

Where l work now, Union membership is a minority, and l get pissed off when employees who have a grievence with the company come to me for advice and ask me to sit in on any discussions that they may be required to have with management.

I have done this on several ocassions, and in one instance persuaded management to not sack one of the staff, as we were in dispute about our award and its very ambiguous wording, versus the company policy and procedures, wherein the award takes precedence.
Like it or not there are many employers out there who will screw their workers if they are able to. And that is wrong...............K

Posted by: auntykaz at April 12, 2008 12:19 AM

Richard K @ 7.32pm: Well done, sir. A far better classification than I could ever have come up with, and amusing to boot. Good stuff. And on that positive note I'll hit the hay.

PS Karina - thanks for rostering someone so late tonight. Appreciated.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 12, 2008 12:18 AM

Amber.
Turnbull for PM, that is a scary thought, I equate him with Frazer, with the same wonderful understanding of the working man, not. That is one thing I have never been able to find out, what happened to his (Frazer) pants? Well Amber I am happy to have a drink on Costello, never been to the Laid, hope to make it one day. Still don't agree with you but appreciate the thoughtfull and nice way you put your case.
Cheers OG

Posted by: oldergent at April 11, 2008 11:21 PM

Tis ok amberlight :)

I deliberately did not mention any names because I wanted to address what was said more than who said it. All my points were responding to different posts so please do not feel singled out.

And this is a free country. Anyone is free to have the most stupid and misguided beliefs they wish, just as I free to them how stupid and misguided their beliefs are, and in the case of my profile, to stay the hell away from me with those beliefs. Freedom of speech and freedom of thought cuts both ways :)

As I said, I didn't vote for the Coalition in the last election because they took their eye of the economic ball and started spending money like drunken sailors and oversaw continued increases in the size and cost of government.

No not every criticism is bigotry, but when it is based on lies, that is a different matter.

As for the union influence - I believe the ALP policy before the election was something along the lines that if a majority of a business's workforce (51%) wanted union representation or were union members, then the union would have sole authority to negotiate salary and conditions for the entire business - even for the 49% who didn't want union representation. They would have no choice in the matter and to make things worse, the union would be allowed to steal a negotiating fee off that 49%.

This might have only applied to specific industries and I have no idea if this is still their policy but even if that is only partially true it is abhorrent.

But I am glad you are one who hates the spin that Rudd is proving himself to be a master off. Now let's see other lefties hold him to same standard they demanded of Howard and maybe we can get some accountability back into government.

And that is something all sides should be coming together for

Posted by: stoic at April 11, 2008 10:44 PM

Hi all. Think I'll pass on the politics. Several of you are saying what I think, a lot better than I could.

And it was I who thought this blog was dying, untill we got into one of the 3 topics that used to be banned, because they caused people to get real and say with passion what was in their heart, instead of rabbiting on about the weather, like proper uncommunicative Poms.

"SPENDING THE KIDS' INHERITANCE" is what I want to pick up on. Thank you Amber at 10.39am for:

"We are a greedy generation (unlike .... own parents which is why so many baby-boomers are so well off themselves) where the "spend your kids' inheritance" ideology is seen as quite reasonable and even funny....Sadly we have exactly the same attitude to the world our kids will inherit!! "

Then virgil at 12:12 pm: "... whilst I agree that the idea of spending our kids inheritance sounds wrong, I am glad you have brought that up, because it might be just perception that it is the kids inheritance.

In reality it might be our moderate living expenses, so we can live out our years in relative comfort."

My contribution: I remember Bob Menzies buying another term in office by promising to give the age pension to everyone over 70, so you wouldn't need to save for your old age from 45 to 65, as soon as your kids were off your hands.

But I disagree that he was mainly a leftie in disguise - I reckon he was just pork-barreling his own constituency in a new way. Might be wrong. Am I?

My mum took it straight away, but my slightly-richer aunt said she didn't need it, and only took it 20 years later, when she moved from her house into a retirement home with bigger expenses - to let her leave something to her beloved nephews.

We gave our kids a private high-school education and uni for the girls (the boy wanted to be a working blacksmith in a historical village, and was at metalwork TAFE when he died.)

He'd had trumpet and scouts, and the girls had what they fancied - ballet to 16 and then dancing in 42nd St and other Xmas vacation Musicals for one, violin for the other, and a 6-week tour of Europe and the UK with the school in year 11. Her mother paid her $6000 fare, and I gave her a $500 camera and $1500 spending money - 10% of my after-tax income that year. Joan earned a lot more than I did, after 1983.

She said she'd fund them for full-time uni as long as they liked, but if they were ever so stupid as to want to get married, they could pay for that themselves. Every cent.

They did well for themselves. One had 37 subordinates when she left her job in her mid-30s, to have her first child a week later.

The other was up to level 7 in the public service before she was 30, while doing a third (Masters) degree by correspondence in the evenings.

They'll get a bit more when their mother dies - what her house and enormous library fetches. Very much less from me - I rent, have no investments except a small annuity from my Super, and can't save on my meagre income.

I believe you should spend whatever you need out of your life savings for a reasonable standard of living, and applaud people who've taken out a reverse mortgage to give them a reasonable life after they can't work.

If there is an inheritance, I believe it should be trusteed to give young children a good education, and no lump sum till they're 30, used to living within their income, and a bit less likely to splurge it on unnecessary luxuries.

I got a small sum from my grandmother's estate (a year's income) at 40, which covered Joan being out of the workforce for 5 years, due to the 3rd child. That was really helpful, but we didn't need any more than that, to get by.

I could do with $10,000 now for working capital to expand my business so it feeds me better, but am looking to myself to earn that. Better get back to it now. Seeyez.

Posted by: timewarp1 at April 11, 2008 10:20 PM

Wow Stoic,
And I call myself opinionated!!

I read your profile and I imagine that only someone who actually agrees with your view of the world would be comfortable expressing a political opinion (or any opinion!) in your presence! Despite the fact I am some 20 years older than you, I would be intimidated!

However, your comments about anyone crticising America as being just anti-American bigotry is rubbish.
Even Americans themselves have not always been proud of the role their country has enacted in various countries around the world.

As far as the economy is concerned, I never said that the Liberals did nothing.
However, the country was well on the mend by the time Keating was voted out and Howard and his government benefited from this.
I did say that the Liberals were so busy patting themselves on the back in the last few years they didn't notice that the economy was overheating until it was too late, which is fair comment.

As far as the unions are concerned, I thought that it was no longer legal to deny someone a job because they aren't in the union and had been that way for several years.
There is no way that Rudd would overturn this, he is far too conservative. In fact for anyone to say that the current Labor Party is anywhere close to left of centre is quite erroneous.

Regarding the Liberals being gagged, just to corrrect you there, in my post I stated both sides of politics are guilty of insisting their MPs only opine the party line, not just the Liberals.
I may be a "leftie" but I hate the spin that goes with both sides of politics these days; no side can claim the higher moral ground when it comes to populist politics.

Regarding your comment about Rudd and Departmental press releases, in my state of SA this has been the case with the Rann Labor government for quite a few years.

As far as union support for Labor, things have certainly not been rosy between the Rann Goverment and the union movement for a very long time. And they are about to get worse with our recent WorkCover changes.

Not everyone who disagrees with you talks BS, Stoic. There is room for everyone's ideas in this world.

I disagree OG! Costello missed his opportunity. Both sides will be jostling for the middle-ground and Turnbull will be the next leader simply because Peter Costello is too disliked by the public in general and Turnbull is liked.

Re the Republic,
As an avowed Monarchist, John Howard did more to advance the case of the Republican cause than any other Prime Minister in Australia's history.
When did we ever see the Governor-General? He was completely side-lined.

Everything the GG would have once been involved in was done by John Howard, unless of course he thought it wasn't important enough (e.g. not enough TV cameras!)
As a Prime Minister he did a pretty good imitation of a President.
If Australians now think the GG's role is a waste of time, is it any wonder?

Gosh Richard,
A full thesis on Friends of all Descriptions! Never realised there were so many categories!

Posted by: amberlight58 at April 11, 2008 10:01 PM

Stoic,
As much as the other did unfortunately. It never ceases to amaze me the resilience of this nation to overcome the idiocy of the governments we occasionally have to endure. Costello is the only one strong and smart enough to pull the one ringed circus into disarray, they could not touch him in opposition and must be thanking their lucky starts he did not stand. Let Nelson stay till Costello can muster the troops, then when the time is ripe move in.
Already we are seeing the comittee mentality coming in, the endless talkfest's that achieve nothing except stoke the ego's of the already ego infested. I was very interested in a Chinese friends reaction to Rudds visit, he was a great admirerer of Rudd, then when he found out that he was an ex diplomat and his wife was a Millionairess he was disgusted that he was the leader of the workers party. But what about the about face on the Rebublic, another untruth told during an election, more discent among the people, how many times do we have to put that to rest.
OG
Ps Karina, in my previous post to Stoic I used the term Holy Duck excretta Batman the S..t was cut out yet Richard can use the F word several times with apparent impunity, that smacks of discrimination against Dinosaurs. lol

Posted by: oldergent at April 11, 2008 8:59 PM

I enjoyed your FWB post of around about 7 pm, richard-whoever you are now... most entertaining, as usual.

Posted by: malsie at April 11, 2008 8:57 PM

Listen up to richardzkruspe at April 11, 2008 7:32 PM.

Now that is age old experience.

Posted by: justsaying at April 11, 2008 8:49 PM

Posted by: stoic at April 11, 2008 5:58 PM

Hear, hear.

Posted by: auntykaz at April 11, 2008 6:00 PM

Absolutely correct however the unions should not control government.

Posted by: lonelyheart44 at April 11, 2008 6:45 PM

There is no more interest in this topic so another has been made up.....your other blogs have been interesting though.

Troy

Posted by: troyohboy at April 11, 2008 8:20 PM

Yeah but OG - how much damage is going to be done before the media decides to start doing their job?

No government should be given a free run or a "honeymoon" period for any amount of time.

I would welcome Costello as a leader if he would stop sulking and start taking the government to task over its performance. He could be playing a game on a Nintendo DS and still demolish Swan in any debate, and I think it is fair to say he enjoys his time in front of the media as much as Rudd. But if he is content to continue sulking and then leave Parliament, then we are better off without him.

With the media being sycophantic lapdogs, the well-being of Australia depends upon a good, robust Opposition.

Nelson is utterly useless (another one who should be calling out the 2020 summit as the utter bullshit it is instead of going along with it) and has been totally ineffective.

There has been a lot of opportunity already to take this government to task and he has done nothing.

Posted by: stoic at April 11, 2008 8:15 PM

When you begin a relationship you are usually not in love with the other person. You continue to see them and enjoy their company and then after a month or two or three you have sex with them. Or if you are Virgil date three because the relationship is only to last for three months.
You are